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Science VS Christianity, Bill Nye VS Ken Ham: The Great Debate LIVE 7PM EST (Live Feed)

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Is creation a viable model of origins in today’s modern, scientific era? Leading creation apologist and bestselling Christian author Ken Ham is joined at the Creation Museum by Emmy Award-winning science educator and CEO of the Planetary Society Bill Nye.

Ham, a former science instructor who emigrated to the USA from Australia over 25 years ago, is joined by the popular children’s program personality Bill Nye “the Science Guy” for this first and only scheduled debate. Each man delivers what he believes is the best information currently available for his case. Each then has an opportunity for rebuttal and afterward answers questions submitted by the audience.

I am looking forward to this debate as I’m sure many of thousands if not millions of others are as well.  I’m personally hoping for a spirited debate. Let passions fly and the barbs be sharp.  This is going to be a good one..  Enjoy 7PM EST LIVE!!! (See below)



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    Total 12 comments
    • am123

      To believe in evolution is to be ignorant of the fossil record.

      The theory of evolution is a propaganda-laden farce that is fraught with folly and lacks empirical evidence from the fossil record. Consider the following lack of evidence for the theory of evolution in the fossil record:

      * There is no physical evidence from the fossil record of anteaters with shorter and progressively longer snouts. The theory of evolution would have it that the anteater evolved its long snout gradually over millions of years. So at one point, according to the theory of evolution, there had to be an evolutionary ancestor to the modern anteater with a short snout, let’s say a 1 inch snout for arguments sake. And gradually over the years, there would have been an anteater with a 2 inch snout, an anteater with a 3 inch snout, and so forth up to the modern day anteater with its long snout. So does the fossil record shows such a progression? Nope.

      * Likewise, there is no physical evidence in the fossil record of a sequence of giraffes with shorter and progressively longer necks.

      * There is no sequence in the fossil record showing one species or kind of animal changing into another species or kind of animal. Darwin himself acknowledged that his theory implied that the number of transitional links between all species must be great in number. The excuse for the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record during Darwin’s time was that much of the fossil record was yet to be uncovered. Well, since then we have uncovered quite a bit and no intermediate fossils have turned up in the fossil record.

      * Unless there is some breaking news somewhere, the Missing Link is still missing!

      While the fossil record is missing evidence for evolution, what do evolutionists do when they find evidence in the fossil record that doesn’t fit their theory and supports what the Bible says? Why they cover it up of course! Consider the subject of giants. The Bible speaks about giants in Genesis 6:4, Numbers 13:33, and Deuteronomy 2:10-11 among other places. And do you know that skeletons of giants have been found in America? They didn’t teach you that in school did they? American Indians are very familiar with giants who lived in North America. In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, there were numerous accounts of discoveries of giants in America. Here are some newspaper accounts of some of them:

      http://www.sydhav.no/giants/newspapers.htm

      But what happened to the skeletons? There are several accounts of the Smithsonian whisking away giant skeletons. Here is an article from Xpeditions Magazine entitled “Holocaust of Giants The Great Smithsonian Cover-up”:

      http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magazine/articles/giants/holocaust.html

      Another technique evolutionists use when they come across evidence that doesn’t fit their theory is they come up with laughable explanations. What if I told you that evolutionists believe that soft tissue from a dinosaur bone they dug up is 68 million years old :eek: ? That’s right, I kid you not:

      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html

      If you want to know what supposed 68 million year old soft tissue looks like, how it is flexible and pliable and returns to its original shape when stretched, you can see it at the 9:10 mark of this video from 60 Minutes:

      http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5658449n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

      Isn’t it ironic that evolutionists make fun of the beliefs of Bible believers and yet, here is science making the ludicrous claim that 68 million year old soft tissue is flexible, resilient, and stretchy? One question I have is, when an evolutionist finds a dinosaur bone with soft tissue that is 68 million years old, do they straight away put it into a zip-lock plastic bag in order to prevent spoilage? :lol:

      Another more important question is this: Why wouldn’t the dating calculations be questioned when someone says soft tissue from a dinosaur bone is 68 million years old? Here is why: Because a dinosaur bone that is not millions of years old would contradict the millions of years old paradigm of the evolutionary model and evolutionists won’t let that happen to their religion. They’d rather look like fools claiming soft tissue is millions of years old rather than give up their ridiculous theories. So don’t look for science to contradict such an absurd claim.

      Let’s examine how the model of the theory of evolution fits the reality of the fossil record shall we? And let us put aside for now the “Frankenstein type” story of how the first cell came to life by being zapped with electricity—it’s alive!—and just start with the infamous single cell starting point for evolution. The model of evolution would have it that from that from one single cell evolved all the various life forms we see on earth today. So the model of evolution is basically a triangle. It starts at a single point on top and expands downward to a wide base on the bottom producing the various higher life forms we see on the planet today. However, this model of evolution does not fit the raw data of the fossil record. In the Cambrian explosion, we see a vast multitude of higher life forms appearing fully formed in the fossil record without any precursor forms like the model of evolution requires. And the number of classifications, called phyla, that existed then is greater than the number of phyla on earth today. So, unlike the model of evolution, which must start with one life form with the number of life forms expanding and expanding, we see in the physical fossil record a multitude and vast spectrum of life forms appearing fully formed in the fossil record without any precursors in the fossil record and then we see the number of phyla actually decreasing, not increasing.

      All in all, the model of the theory of evolution is a poor excuse to explain how the various life forms on the planet today came into being.

      The BOTTOM LINE: If evolution means the gradual change of one kind of organism into another kind, the outstanding characteristic of the fossil record is the absence of evidence for evolution!

      And yet, our kids today in school are being indoctrinated and brainwashed with this nonsense. What the fossil record does support is like begets like, as the Book of Genesis states. So if you want rock solid unchanging truth to stand upon and you want to know how everything came into existence, then seek out the Book of Genesis and the Word of God. But if you want conjecture on where we came from along with fruitless and laughable theories, seek out monkey-men-wannabes who will spin you a laughable yarn, a fanciful tale!

    • COCONUT

      GO BILL GO

    • Anonymous

      As a Christian, I find the title of this article frustrating. I don’t believe that either Bill Nye nor Ken Ham have it right. As with many, I hold to the belief that the world really is, like, really really old. However, I don’t buy the theory that random (non-directed) genetic accidents, filtered through natural selection, comes close to explaining the evidence of DNA.

      • am123

        There was no representation of the “Gap Theory”, which allows for an earth that is millions of years old (it is the Adamic race that is less than 10,000 years old, not the earth according to the gap theory):

        http://www.kjvbible.org/gap_theory.html

    • am123

      The physical laws of the universe are perfectly calibrated to support human life on earth, for our Creator designed it that way. Much of the truth, many of the laws we have discovered were deduced by scientists who assumed that we live in a rational, ordered universe stemming from the hand of a rational, ordered Creator. Isaac Newton said “This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being”. Newton also said “”No great discovery was ever made without a bold guess”.

      And the bold guesses have been based upon the idea that the universe operates according to laws which are comprehensible to the human mind, laws which we measure here on earth in laboratories and are true everywhere and have their existence due to a rational Creator behind it all who writes the physical laws of the universe in the language of mathematics.

      All technology is a tribute to God because scientific advancements just reaffirm a fact that we already know: there is perfection in the universe. Every scientific advancement is just a further insight into that perfection.

      Reflecting for a moment on all the technology of today all around us, God has given us all the natural resources which we have extracted from the earth and with God-given knowledge and wisdom, formed into the things we see all around us. God planned it out a long time ago. He put into the earth all the natural resources which he knew that man would be able to build into all the amazing things we see around us today. Isn’t God good? Isn’t God incredible? Science and technology throughout eternity will be exciting and I can hardly wait as we mimic nature with our machines and technology.

      Yes, science is wonderful and amazing. But science goes astray when man is considered the ultimate being of the universe. Not only does atheistic science give us the laughably absurd theory of evolution, but because of their glorified intellects and because there is no fear of the Lord (although I assure that will change) in the atheistic kind of science, atheistic science also leads to ugly, gross, perverse things, things where mad scientists experiment with things they ought not to be doing, things like forming “humanimals”, if you will, and what not. But I’ve got news for those who make science their god: go ahead and have your little fun for now, but know this, Jesus is coming back and when He does, He’s going to take out the garbage and burn it in a fire that never goes out.

      • Merkin

        Brother am123,

        Very interested in some of topics you are hitting here. if I may ask,

        How old do you think this physical world has been around?
        Do you think the genesis account is about “the first” peoples or a “first people”

        I often wonder about the “out of place artifacts” that seem to point to modern types of beings living millions of years ago. Is there room for other “first times” or prior accounts of mans time on this earth? Feel like we are missing a chunk of history either by design or collective amnesia.

        • am123

          Thanks for the questions brother Merkin.

          Regarding the age of the earth, because I don’t know the actual or approximate age of the earth, I have an open mind about it. I don’t rule out the Young Earth Creationists, who say the earth is less than 10,000 years old. They actually have some interesting points, like I didn’t know that modern science dates the age of the earth not with rocks from the earth but rocks from outer space which is, kinda unscientific, don’t ya think? But anyway, I tend to lean towards the gap theory where the earth is very old but it is strictly the Adamic race that is less than 10,000 years old.

          I don’t know if this answers your second question, but I think the Genesis account is the account of Adam and Eve, from which we all our descendants of. We are all members of the Adamic race.

          Regarding prior accounts of man’s time on earth, let it suffice to say that I only know all kinds of things could have been going on prior to Adam and then the Lord said let us make man in our image and waaa-laaaah, here we are :wink: .

        • Merkin

          I appreciate the reply Brother.
          Going to spend some time reading the link to the “gap” theory from up a little.

          Regarding “We are all members of the Adamic race” ” Adamic race that is less than 10,000 years old” thoughts.

          Does this give us enough time to explain the differences seen in race characteristics and physical dispersion of peoples found world wide? I always get stuck on that part and wondering when talking about “adamic race” if we are talking about a lineage as opposed to mankind in general.

        • am123

          I don’t know when the race differences came about, but regarding the physical dispersion of people, that occurred after the flood during the time of Peleg when the land was divided into continents (see Genesis 10:25). And it was during this time that the average lifespan of humans decreased dramatically. Here are some thoughts on that:

          This world was perfect at one time, before the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden. When mankind was judged by God and God “smacked” the earth, so to speak, with the flood of Noah, the axis of the earth was knocked off its axis and became tilted, giving us an imperfect 365.24 days a year. But before that, a year consisted of exactly 360 days and each month was exactly 30 days. You can extrapolate 30 day months from the timeline of the flood of Noah, which started on the 17th day of the 2nd month as per Genesis 7:11, lasted for 5 months or 150 days (5months@30days each) as per Genesis 8:3, and ended on the 17th day of the 7th month as per Genesis 8:4. Before this, because there was no tilt of the earth’s axis and because there was a water vapor canopy in the atmosphere above the earth (GENESIS 1:6-7), the pre-flood earth was an ideal place for human habitation. The temperature was just right, not too hot, not too cold. So in this pristine environment, Adam (who had lost his eternal life) lived for 930 years. Noah also lived 900+ years.

          But then after the flood, because there was no longer a water vapor canopy in the atmosphere and because the earth’s axis became titled—resulting in a more harsh environment temperature wise—the average lifespan of humans was just about cut in half to around 400 years or so. You can see this in Genesis 11:11-15.

          Then, another event lead to the cutting in about half the average lifespan of humans—and that was, the dividing of the earth during the time of Peleg (Genesis 10:25). Perhaps this was due to the release of Radon gas when the earth was opened up. And perhaps before the time of Peleg, the land mass of the earth formed a diamond shape—hence the Biblical saying of the “four corners of the earth”. But after the time of Peleg, when the earth was divided, the average lifespan of humans dropped to around 200 years or so (as per Genesis 11:21-32).

          And so because of the fall of mankind and the judgment from God that followed, we now live in an imperfect earth with all kinds of disease and imperfections and what not. However, the GOOD NEWS is this: all that was lost to mankind in the Garden of Eden and more can be restored to each and every person by believing on Jesus Christ. You can regain eternal life and you can live in perfect harmony in the New Jerusalem and rule and reign with Jesus for all time to come in the new world and new universe God will create a little over one thousand years from now.

        • Merkin

          Brother am123,

          Whenever you and Brother Beef take time to reply to me I have to mull over the info sometimes for days :) Many things I haven’t considered before

          You know… on so many levels it makes perfect sense to me that the earth used to have 360 days. What about the months thought… with the 12. This still seems roman. I would expect to see some form seven (completion) for orders of the weekly 7.

        • Omega Files

          @Merkin: who asked, “How old do you think this physical world has been around?”

          I could be wrong but this is the interpretation that I find best suited for understanding the first few verses in Genesis:

          Genesis 1:1-2: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

          The phrase ‘In the beginning’ really is closer to being a ‘big inning’ than just the point at which things started. It tells that God made the heavens and the earth, but doesn’t give an inkling as to when or how. The idea is bolstered by the fact that when Hebrew writers wanted to note the actual beginning of a time, as the time of day or week when a harvest commenced for example, the word employed was most often ‘techillah’. This word connotes an opening or commencement. And this passage avoids the use of this word. ‘Techillah’ wasn’t the word Moses chose to tell about the beginning of the heavens and the Earth. In other words, this opening passage of the Bible isn’t necessarily telling about the start of things as is often thought but rather denotes that a period took place during which that first state of being took place and during which God created the heavens and the earth.

          In the second verse, the word ‘waw’ is translated ‘and’. However, ‘waw’ doesn’t necessarily mean ‘and’. It can also mean ‘but’. The ‘and’ was chosen simply because the translators felt it fit well there when reading it in the context of the two verses together. This alternate reading with ‘but’ suggests that even though God had created the heavens and the earth in a perfect form during the previous period (as described in verse 1), an event took place before verse 2 that has caused the whole world to become chaotic. It can then be seen that something has changed, and that while this is a beginning for the saga of mankind, there was, in every likelihood, a previous existence of some sort. God has no real end but is eternal, one must therefore assume that the ‘beginning’ before His works simply means: before what can be seen in this age was created, not before God. So this suggests that some cataclysmic event has taken place, causing the old world to be totally wasted and uninhabitable. The original creation, which had been perfect, had ‘become’ desolate and void. I believe that whatever event that it was that caused everything to ‘without form and void’ has something to do with the asteroid belt and what’s on Mars.

          The Hebrew word ‘tohuw’ is translated as ‘without form’. This word appears elsewhere in the Bible and takes on some finer associations and meanings, including formlessness, confusion, unreality, and emptiness. It also is associated with the unreal, as with an idol as well as wasteland and solitary wilderness. In the adverbial form, ‘tohuw’ means ‘wastefully’ or ‘in vain’. Thus, while the word used here means primarily a wasteland, there are undercurrents and hints of idolatry, pride, and sin through the choice of this word.

          The Hebrew word ‘bohuw’ is generally employed throughout the Bible in connection with the desolation of a city or nation. It also connotes an undercurrent of judgment from God (as in Isaiah 34:11 where the Lord’s judgment results in desolation). Thus, when the earth was ‘void’ it was desolate. That this is a judgment from God is further bolstered by the idea that darkness is upon the face of the earth, since this is associated with evil in the Bible while God is associated with light. Thus, the ‘without form, and void’ suggests not just physical desolation but spiritual as well.

          The ‘deep’, or ‘tehom’, further reinforces this feeling that things were under judgment. While this word is often associated with the sea or deep water, it has other shades of meaning as well, including the abyss and the grave. Thus, ‘tehom’ is employed in Genesis 7:11 where it is translated as ‘the great waters’ of Noah’s Flood and in Psalm 36:6 as a ‘a great deep’ associated with the God’s judgment. The deep does refer to the ocean. But it also is symbolic of a judgment against wrongdoing and bolsters the overall feel that things are not right in creation as the opening passage of Genesis suggests.

          Genesis 1:3-5: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

          The ‘Let there be light’ phrase does not appear to be a creative act when one studies the Hebrew words and their usage here. Most likely, the universe of stars, sun and moon were created during the ‘in the beginning’ period but not visible on the earth, due to the darkness that apparently enveloped it. This also explains why the earth could be in existence during a long span of time without there being days and nights on the surface. For some reason, a thick cloud cover or water canopy perhaps, daylight didn’t reach the surface of the planet. This, in turn, suggests that something evil might very well have changed the planet for the worse. Only when God was preparing to create man and living organisms on the face of the planet did He make days and nights appear on its surface. Time didn’t start with the first day on Earth; but the separation of day and night on the surface of the planet made it possible to tell time as the first days started rolling around, marking God’s creation of life on the planet.

          This reading of the past is not disproven by fossil records or the like because it’s not only possible but almost a certainty that pre-historic, pre-Adamic life was on earth ‘before’ the Genesis 1:2 reforming of an earth that had become formless and void. If anything, fossils buttress this reading of the Genesis account with its re-creation of the creatures that now inhabit it and the vanishing of the vast hordes of creatures such as the dinosaurs.

          The Hebrew story of creation cannot be viewed as an isolated account known only to the ancient Jews. Rather, it is a story that has been mimicked and copied by very many other cultures, some of which could not have seen the Hebrew writings before developing their own versions of the basic story. That stories with similar elements sprang up in very different cultures around the world suggests that these stories have a common origin, with the Biblical account arguably the most accurate due to the unique pains that were taken in keeping the stories true to the original Word. Please note that the scribes copying the various books of the Old and New Testaments did so with strict supervision and careful checking by the scribe as well as those working with him to avoid errors. Where many cultures rewarded the embellishment of stories, the Jewish writers worked in the opposite direction: the stories were never to be altered even by punctuation.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          MERKIN!!!

          Looking for sevens in the System of YHWH. Good form old man. YHWH’s System for counting time is based on repeating sevens. Seven times seven = 49 years = one Jubilee. The fiftieth year is the first year of the follow-on Jubilee.

          There were 360 days in the year, but there were four uncounted marker days called “Days of Remembrance”. That gets us 364 days in the year total.

          We have 12 months (not pagan — think Tribes and Apostles) of 30 days each, plus one Day of Remembrance per quarter to give us four quarters of 91 days each, or 13 weeks exactly. There were always 52 weeks to the year, with no remainder or deficit. The sevens repeat uninterrupted in the System as it was originally established, until our brother Joshua tampered with the Clockwork of Creation and never un-did what he did.

          But it is written in prophecy that the House of Israel would lose track of the appointed times and the Sabbaths: that is lose track of the System of YHWH (I am hesitant to even use the term ‘calendar’ in connection with His heptadic/septenary system). It is written that we would NOT be able to find the Sabbaths or the Appointed Times as we approach the latter days.

          Guess what? We can’t make His System work today. We don’t know how to compensate for the discrepancy caused by Joshua when he commanded the Sun and the Moon to stand still in the Heavens “for the space of about a day.” About a day gets us very close to the 1.24+ day discrepancy we have on our hands at present. Therefore, we cannot rightly implement YHWH’s System even though we can re-construct it. We don’t know how to begin or how to end the year.

          We do know that the ‘solar system’ agrees perfectly with His Time-keeping System, however. Even according to NASA’s own Moon Phase website, the orbit of the Moon and the ‘rotation’ of the Earth (assuming heliocentricity) synch up every 49 years. That’s right — rock-solid evidence for the existence of the Creator from Scripture exists in our visible Heavens. The synchronicity between the Sun, Moon and Earth over a 49 year period is utterly destructive to the idea of a universe which coalesced out of chaos, over time. You can’t see the evidence if you look at time in blocks of one year, but only when you view time in blocks of 49 years, which is precisely how the Jubilee of Scripture works.

          Chew on that for a couple of days, brother.

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