Cherokee Medicine Path

Interview with Jasper Garrett

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1. You are the author of The Cherokee Full Circle: A Practical Guide to Sacred Ceremonies and Traditions and Meditations with the Cherokee: Prayers, Songs, and Stories of Healing and Harmony. What was your sole purpose in authoring these books? I know Michael Tianusta Garrett helped co-author one of them as well.

2. Could you give us a bit of background about your Cherokee heritage?

With regard to the first question, it was my son, Michael that encouraged me to put a number of the activities and exercises that I did with those Elders teaching me Cherokee Medicine.  While I started very young learning from my mother and her sister, my grandfather wanted me to have even greater depth and dimension in my teachings of life.  As a bright young student with a curious and creative mind with a passion for biology and life sciences before that, I was also drawn to science and how things worked in general.  My grandfather passed when I was young, so he had talked with some of the Cherokee Elders in our Tribe (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians) about being an apprentice to several Cherokee Medicine Men.

As a young boy, being an apprentice to a Medicine Man was not necessarily how I wanted to spend my time.  I always enjoyed hearing the stories and listening to the Elders, but “going into Cherokee Medicine” was a commitment and dedication that I was not prepared for from age 12 until about the age of 20 or so.  The sense of “calling” or Vision was even later as I truly felt a “spirit calling to take up the Medicine.”  The books came much later for two reasons:  (1) I was concerned and felt the sense of fear and frustration from at least four (4) of the Medicine Men and Women that “it” was going to be lost in time.

On one of my vision journeys in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park near Cherokee North Carolina as the age of 25, an Elder went with me.  After a traditional “scratching” or actual breaking of the skin with a very old bone hook-like instrument in a ceremony and a “plunge” in the Oconaluftee River, I went to a place in the mountains near what is called Deep Creek in Swain County NC today.  This was near a place that was said to the location of Tsali or Charlie where his spirit is said to walk the mountains.  There is a story of Tsali and his sons being shot by General Scott during the Removal in 1839 when those hiding in the mountains were left as other Cherokee continued the journey west in what has been called the “Trail of Tears.”

My vision was to work with others, especially those of mixed Cherokee ancestry and others for a better understanding and appreciation of the culture, traditions, and Cherokee Medicine “ways.”  With that humility and vision, the first book, “Medicine of the Cherokee was written.  I asked for permission from the Elders with mixed blessings.  Some did say that to share these words would mean the wisdom of the teachings would be “stolen and used for the purposes of money, rather than for education and understanding of the traditional Cherokee ways.”  One elder from the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians and one from the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma encourage me and blessed the journey I would be making with my son in writing the books or “sharing the wisdom,” as both Elders put it.

This answers question number 2 as well.  I am a member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians from Cherokee North Carolina.  My family going back for several generations is connected to those Eastern Cherokee Indians who either left early or about 1819 on their journey for Arkansas and those who were packed in stockades with the “forced removal” in 1838-39.  The other side of my family were part of the Qualla Tribe who were already given permission by reason of agreements with the State of North Carolina to stay on the Qualla Boundary.  There is a much longer story of those events with Yonaguska or Drowning Bear and Col. or “Little Will” as the only White Chief of the Qualla Tribe until he died and those Indians became citizens of the State of North Carolina with land bought by William Holland Thomas and the Tribe being established as a Corporation that was finally agreed by the Federal Government to hold the land in trust as the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.  This is all through my Cherokee mother and her ancestry.

My father is from a Scot-Irish ancestry from County Down and Dublin Ireland that came to America back about 1730 with their skillful hands and a desire to have their own farming land and freedom.  A part of that ancestry also includes Cherokee connections as well.

I will get back with you after the weekend.  In heart, mind, and spirit I feel so very blessed to be Cherokee and Scot-Irish with both being chased and driven from their homes, but with a fortunate connection in the Great Smoky Mountains where there has been many generations of both living side-by-side and mixed in marriages and families.

3. I have Cherokee within my blood line as well and saw pictures of my great grandmother dressed in full attire with long black hair. I have always had a strong attraction to Shamanism since my younger years. What teachings from your book can you share with from your heart right now for those of us who seem to get most of our teachings and wisdom about this culture from books?

As I look at the questions, Number 3 you mentioned “Shaman.”  Of all my years on the Cherokee Boundary or what some call “Reservation,” the expression was always Medicine Man.  When learning from several of those Medicine Men, there were different levels, similar to specialties that were often mentioned.  None could recall a Seventh Level Medicine Man, but certainly several in my day were of the 4th and 5th level that had mastered what we call the Four Directions and Dimensions that is discussed in “The Cherokee Full Circle” with some information in “Medicine of the Cherokee.”  The fifth, sixth, and seventh would include mastery that would include what earlier would have been called Priests or Holly Men and Women as well.

If the reader will reframe their own thinking in terms of a more ancient time when we did not have reading materials for teaching and learning of Ancient Wisdom or knowledge such as the Bible, then one would depend on what has been passed down.  Usually more than words were used to describe the values or wisdom taught using the behavior of animals, the leaves and changing trees with the seasons, or hearing the Four Winds for messages, or having the great Eagle or Hawk bring messages to you, and other similar ways to describe and explain in teachings.  Activities such as ceremonial chants-prayers, dances, drumming, flute playing, and even competitive games would teach “sacred things” that one could observe and remember in everyday life.  Going to the river would be a ceremonial and sacred plunge, not just a family or friend outing.

Sitting under a tree and within the canvas of a large beautify protection with the many veins of leaves and sieve cells moving liquids and nutrients becomes a form of guided meditation.  This is described somewhat on page 20 under the heading “Connecting with Nature” in the book, “Meditations with the Cherokee.”  In an earlier time, the used of heightened senses would almost have one be able to hear even the slightest sound.  Today, we are fortunate to hear the rustling of leaves in a calm breeze.  As one of my teachers said to me once, “Can you hear the leaves?  I responded yes.  “Can you hear the squirrel ten feet above you that is fixing to drop an acorn down on your head?”  I paused and said, “Well, not really and nothing has hit my head.”  The Elder responded, “Well the squirrel thought about it and decided to not waste a good nut on you!”

We come very close to what I suspect would be the intent, sensitivity of senses, and keenness of hearing as an example when we get so enthralled in a book we are reading that the whole world goes on without us or we sit through a fire alarm and cannot put the book down.  

4. Have you met any resistance from people in the Cherokee community for sharing this information with the public or are most people pretty open to it. It seems like this information is much needed right now with the way the Earth is going. What can you share with us about healing ourselves and the Earth right now during what feels like a time or turmoil amongst men?

Question #4.  My mother told me when I shared with her about writing the first book that some of the Tribal members would not be pleased about me sharing any information about Cherokee Medicine.  Several members were very curt to me and a couple were almost rude; however, most of the comments have been positive.  Many know we have already lost so much, but sharing with outsiders is not very well accepted, even today.

Based on Indian Medicine in general, we have Medicine Men or those we know in our Tribes that have information passed down about natural plants that we prefer not to call “herbs,” with is an English term for what we call “Medicine.”  Unlike the interpretation in modern America, Medicine with a capital “M” refers to physical, mental, spiritual, and natural Medicine or what in Cherokee we call the Four Direction and Dimensions as already mentioned.  Those who have learned and share the teachings of spiritual Medicine are usually through ceremonies such as healing “ways” or ceremony and with the use of feathers, stones, and other natural tools used by the “one trained for these things,” as would be stated by a Medicine Man or Woman.

One old and sacred way of healing Mother Earth or our Earth Mother is by doing what is called a “tobacco prayer.” Each day at either early morning or sunrise or at dusk dawn (or for me anytime in between) a pinch of Sacred Tobacco or an organic tobacco.  It is offered to Mother Earth with a prayer giving thanks for all her gifts, along with thanks to the Great One for all things and all our relations.  The same for our warriors and heroes at war, our sick and healing, and all our relations that includes the winged-ones, two-legged ones, four legged ones, and those that prepare our earth such as worms and other insects for the receiving of seeds for growing food for our survival.

5. I love Native American folklore stories and Coyote the trickster and things to that nature when it comes to Native storytelling. Do the Cherokees have a trickster like being and could you share a story with us regarding the Cherokee belief system?

I am so glad you asked me question Number 5, as the Rabbit was always one of my favorite animals as the trickster and one who tried to get away with things, but always got caught.  Rabbit was always beat at his own game or called “The Deceiver One.”

As the story goes, Rabbit who was so beautiful was a little vain and seemed to enjoy trickery rather than being a sincere and honest friend to other animals.  Rabbit was envious of Otter who was such a good swimmer and could get a fish so easily with his ability to move quickly in the water.  “Good afternoon Otter,” said Rabbit.  “You know what, I sometimes each ducks and fish just like you,” said Rabbit.  Otter could not believe his ears, Rabbit eating fish and ducks?  No way, so Otter challenged him to swim under water until he got near the other side of the bank where the ducks were resting at the water’s edge.  Rabbit watched as Otter swiftly swam through the water quietly and “gulp!” snagged a duck and swam back before the other ducks even knew anything was happening.

While Otter was gone to get the duck, Rabbit pealed back some bark from a sapling and made a noose that he hid from Otter.  Otter said, “Now it is your turn, Rabbit show me your stuff!”  Rabbit splashed through the water, somehow the ducks were not disturbed.  Rabbit dove under the water and came up with the noose in hand throwing it over the head of a small duck.  Suddenly the duck spread his wings and struggled to fly upwards and out of the water.  Rabbit was hanging on to the noose as the duck flew higher and higher, until he finally fell near a thicket where there was an old hollow sycamore stump.  Being so embarrassed, Rabbit hid in the stump until the evening, while Otter and others were laughing at the antics of Rabbit.

As usual with the Rabbit stories, there is another story from there.  The stories were usually told with laughter and fun and props that were made for the occasion.  

6. Herbal wise how important are the plants to the Cherokee people? Recently my girlfriend told me about Rabbit Tobacco down south and it being a Native remedy. I was just curious if you could talk about some well known herbs used by the Cherokee..

In question number 6, you asked about the use of plant as natural herbals used by the Cherokee.  The time frame for the “herbals” or plants for remedies based on some health related conditions or wounds is related to generations in my Cherokee ancestry.  My reason for publishing the book, “The Cherokee Herbal” was to preserve what is still known today on the use of natural plants as what the Cherokee refer as “Medicine” with a capital “M,” rather than medicine as described by laws today.  We describe medicine as an application of a preparation used to treat and cure disease.  One has to frame their way of thinking much differently if we go back a couple of generations.

In Appalachia where there is a strong mix of earlier European and American Indian mix of folks, the term “remedy” also used medicine to cure something or even “take care of some evil or influence,” as my grandmother would describe to “make someone better.”  Sometimes the old remedies were more effective than some of the modern medicine of a couple of generations ago.  Other times it was the same, just standardized and not compromised by germs or whatever that were controlled in a more sterile environment is making the preparation.  As an example, Aspirin prepared by Bayer a couple of generations ago was more effective than the use of a remedy of Willow Bark, but both contained Salicin or salicylic acid.  As a child I was given Aspirin by the local doctor for inflammation and fever with a cold or flu.  My Cherokee grandfather would give me a drink of tea with Willow Bark, mixed with Yellowroot from the creek bank or an Appalachian neighbor would give me a tea of Chamomile and White Willow Bark.  It was essentially the same and the results was the same.  Both were formulated with compounds and prepared with some level Salicin with Chamomile or Yellowroot with similar results of relaxing the intestinal smooth muscles and reducing inflammation.

The Elder Cherokee Medicine Man or the Elder grandmother learned what plants to use in a preparation or what earlier Cherokee referred to as a formula to be a helper with a song-chant or something one would do to gather the plants for Medicine.  If one frames this in another way and timeframe and place, it is easier to see and understand that while the progression of Cherokee Medicine and modern medicine is similar, then the way of preparing the mixture or formula produces a product of willow bark with about 100,000 parts per mission of Salicin or about 100 milligrams of salicylic acid.  The Bayer Aspirin the doctor prescribed for my cold or flu was a baby Aspirin of 81 milligrams four times daily that is about a standard adult Aspirin.  What was different was that I did not have to take something for an upset stomach in taking the Aspirin as well over several days of doses.  The Cherokee formula already had a compound as a helper.

I refer you and the readers to “The Cherokee Herbal” as an educational guide on common uses of plants used for specific reasons.  What is not included in the book are some of the formulas by the Cherokee, which are not used much today by the Cherokee.  As one of the Elders said to me, “In the old days, the Medicine Man would be called with his preparations and rattle and song-chants to take care of a fever.  The whole family would be involved in the Medicine way  to take care of those types of things.  We didn’t go to the White-Man’s doctor cause we didn’t need to, we had our own doctors.”  There are many Cherokees like myself that use both modern drugs and treatments because it is easier and quicker.  We can go get a non-prescription off the store shelf or go to the physician or Urgent Care if we cannot cure it ourselves, such as with an infection.  However, many of us still go to Nature’s pharmacy for Arnica for bruises or Yellow Dock and Sorrel for minor infections or Garlic along with Aspirin for pain or Agrimony from the Rose Family as a tannin and astringent to stop external bleeding.

I still have those wonderful pictures in my memory of my mom and grandmother mixing up a tea of Angelica from the Parsley or Carrot family with Queen Ann’s Lace from along the roadside in the mountains for colds to reduce pain as an analgesic, along with the bottle of Bayer Aspirin nearby.  I would gather Melissa Balm from the Mint family along the roadsides and open fields for my grandmother s a soothing or calming agent for what she called her “nervous spells.”  We did not talk about “female ailments,” but I would gather Black Cohosh that she used for about everything associated with menstruation, cramps, and inflammation.  She would also ask me to gather some Self-Heal or Elecampane for the essential oils that she would mix with Yellowroot that she would always specify as being by the creek bank.  There was another Yellow Root known as Goldenseal used as a tonic for about everything, including wounds and “female ailments.”

For my grandfather, I would gather Indian Tobacco, which is Lobelia inflate and a member of the Bell Flower family or what he called Wild Tobacco.  Ironically, he used it in an ointment he would use for insect bites and skin conditions, not to smoke, but to also use in Tobacco prayers.  One time I got Poison Ivy on unmentionable places, and prepared a mixture of that and Jewelweed  for an ointment that was applied with only a leaf touching the skin.  In a couple of days I was fine with no itching and healed skin.  There were other formulas or mixtures that were not discussed, except as his Medicine that he was “trained in” that we would gather together such as Lily-of-the-Valley and Mistletoe.  He would tell me these were not to be used or played with in any way because they could be toxic or poisonous if not “trained.”

Both grandparents trained me to use barks of certain trees such as Oak as an astringent of White Oak with Dandelion roots for minor wounds, sores, and cuts.  They taught me that powerful plants not even prepared had “Good Medicine” to them, such as the Passion Flower they say came from the far away mountains of another world.  While it was used as a formula, the power was in giving a few of these plants to a favorite young girl for appreciation and appropriate attention.  While I share some of this with you, I offer Sacred Tobacco in thanks to by grandparents and Cherokee ancestry for these gifts of helpers for healing and Good Medicine choices.

7. What are some Native American Cherokee principles and ways to help people who deal with depression and let’s say addiction and burn out and things to that nature?

In response to question #7, I have been too many years away from our addiction prevention programs on the Cherokee Boundary.  What works best for American Indians are programs of treatment and prevention that are able to combine programs such as provided by the Indian Health Service, as an example with a culturally relevant Tribal ways to deal with the individual and family or families and community of the person with addiction.  It is really wonderful to see and experience some of the very effective way to deal with addiction, especially with younger males and females that include Tribal ceremonies that are distinctive to each person’s individual Tribe.  I prefer to refer folks interested in addiction prevention for American Indians to their own specific Tribe and to the Indian Health Service.  

8. Could you share an exercise with us from your books for our readers embodying the Cherokee way?

9. Do the Cherokees speak of some of the chatter about this world the Earth dying and being Reborn and things to this nature. I have heard some medicineman speak about it that I have interviewed in the past. I am just curious to what their thoughts are on the times we are living in now and perhaps prophecies?

10. What about the star people and the Cherokee belief system spiritually speaking when it comes to life in other realms. What can you share with us about this? What I like to call secret Shaman stuff. =)

Questions 8,9, &10 lead to the crux of what Cherokee and Indian Medicine really is in the teachings of the Way of Life and the Way of Right Relationship.  All life starts with the connection we have as male and female to the Stars in the Skyway, which is our beginning.  The thought of coming from the stars is the “conception” of life as the energy of the stars giving life; therefore, the origins of the teachings in Cherokee Medicine of life form coming into the Circle of Life in the center with this cosmic energy or Spirit Energy giving life from the Great One or the “Universal Energy.”  It is with purpose and origins in purity as being from the most pure being or energy call the Great One.  This is the story of the beginning in Indian Medicine.

In a sense, this is described in “Meditations with the Cherokee” on page 67 with the “South: Direction of the Natural.”  I start there, but the origins with the Center, which is usually described as part of the Circle of Life or the Four Directions.  This is described in Chapter 5 with The Sacred Tree of Life in the “Cherokee Full Circle.”

In essence, we are conceived in purity and innocence with a star-like, almost as or similar to striking a piece of metal against a piece of flint or hard quartz that releases sparks with struck with steel.  The fire of life beginning with the creation of light and heat as life energy.  The sacredness of this “coming-together” is as sacred as re-creating the Great One over again, which is the Ceremony of the Sun for special honoring of the birth of a human.  This is also the reason for a ceremony of holding the baby over a fire that is called the “Sacred Fire (of life).”  A symbolic ceremony can be done with tobacco and cornmeal being offered to a Sacred Fire to celebrate the beginning of life or the “beginning-again” ceremony as well.  The simple but complex ceremonies with prayer-chants and music and drumming are truly sacred.

This is probably one of the most sacred of ceremonies that can be done or created for others to participate in while offering the Sacred Tobacco or any uncontaminated tobacco to be share with the fire.  Flutes, drumming, songs, chants, and moving counter-clockwise around the fire is a great way to feel the energies and to re-create that feeling of Beginning-Again.  It is a way to release anything you really should not or don’t need to hold onto, as well as to ask the Great One for a release and renewal, while letting go or release of any and all harm or anything that keeps you from being free and open to the good things that can come to you.

The Four Directions is part of the offering of Tobacco to each of the four cardinal directions, the Upper World, Lower World, and Center with head and eyes down to give thanks.  The two books mentioned offer these Old Teachings, maybe not in the ways or directions of other tribes.  The Cherokee, like many tribes prefer to keep some of their own beliefs among themselves and their Medicine Men and Women.  What is shared is for educational purposes for others to have a better appreciation and respect for these Old Ways and Old Teachings of the Cherokee and other American Indian Tribal way of life for preservation as well.

11. Any parting words and also are you up to any future books or projects or have any links you would like to share? Thanks.

In question 11 you asked for any parting words.  When I was a young man, my friend Richard and I were near a place where we knew the old men or Medicine Men would be holding a meeting in honor and in preparing for Green Corn Ceremony.  It was on a cool evening near a place called Spirit Mountain by the local Cherokees.  We could hear one of the old men singing his Medicine song.  I mimicked him, trying to learn the song.  Of course, he was singing with a much older voice, very gruff and struggling for breath.  I made my singing more like his.  Suddenly out of nowhere there was this middle-aged man that looked angry at me.  First, Richard and I thought about running, but this was a Cherokee by the name of Crow.  He was a very good Cherokee ballplayer and very fast, so we realized that running would not be a good idea.  The man spoke and said, “The Ole’ Ones said to come get you, cause they knew you were here…and they know who you are, so don’t try to run!”  So we went to where the elderly men were seated around the fire.  The Old One as he was called directed his finger at me and said, “You are Ruth’s boy, right? You sing the song.”  Without hesitation and not even knowing for sure, I started to sing “the song” that was a ceremonial song-chant, like a prayer very slowly.  I sounded as much like him as possible.

The Old One listened and finally broke out in a smile as other started to quietly laugh as though they were laughing to themselves, except I heard it all.  I did not know whether to be embarrassed or just wonder what I said that might have been sung wrong.  The Old One said with a grin, “You sound like an old man.  Sing the song like the young man that you are.  And this is a prayer to the Great One, sing as though you are talking directly to him! Sgi.”  In my youthful I started to sing the prayer-chant.  The Old One interrupted and said, “Now this is your song to sing!”  I have been singing this particular song-chant or prayer every day of my life since that one cool evening near the Great Smoky Mountains and the Blue Ridge Parkway, on the Cherokee Boundary.

Thanks for asking me these questions, because it is a wonderful reminder to me that now at the age of 70, I have become one of the Old Ones, except that my vision was to share so others could better appreciate the ways of the earlier Cherokee and to honor their gifts and their memories in a humble and respectful way.

Jasper Garrett, Ed. D. in Public Health,

Member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians