The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie
John Little – OmegaShock.com
I try to always ask God for direction before I write, because I truly want every word that I write to be what He wants you to read. I really do. It scares me that I would lead you astray in ANYTHING. Unfortunately, because I am fallible, you cannot trust my words completely. I really am no better than you are.
(Click HERE, for last week’s series on Bible Twisting.)
I say all that, because I wanted to write something else today. There are such dire threats facing us, that talking about spiritual lies seems like a waste of time. The problem is that you won’t heed my warnings, if you believe spiritual lies. So, here we go again.
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The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie
After talking about spiritual deception and heresy all last week, you would think that I could be done with the lies and get back to the truth. Unfortunately, God isn’t letting me go on this. There is one specific lie that must be dealt with again, before I can move forward:
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie
I keep calling it a theory, but that’s just because I am trying to be polite. It’s more than a theory. It’s a lie – from Satan, the father of lies. He is using it to put you to sleep, so that you will NOT prepare for what he has planned for you.
Please, if I have to beg, I will. You MUST wake up. There is so little time left.
Starting With The Truth
When judging a lie, you must always start with the truth, and you will find it in the Bible. It’s really quite simple, as the truth often is, and it won’t require lots of verbal gymnastics to say what is… the truth.
Let me summarize the points first:
- Truth ALWAYS trumps THEORY – ALWAYS
- The Antichrist must come before the Rapture
- The Tribulation must come before the Rapture
- The Sun and Moon Must be Darkened before the Rapture
- The Lord Must descend from Heaven with a Shout before the Rapture
- Jesus Must Return before the Rapture
- The Resurrection must happen just before the Rapture (or, at the same time)
- There is only one resurrection for those who are God’s people
- God promised that Christians would suffer
- There IS a Place of Safety on this Earth
There IS A Safe Place If You Do Not Follow The Lie
That last one should concentrate your mind. All of the arguments that the pre-tribbers make are based upon the fact that God would never allow His people to suffer. Well, you won’t have to suffer if you pay attention and follow the truth, and not lies.
Following a lie will ALWAYS lead to suffering. And THAT is what the pre-tribbers are setting you up for. Do not follow the lies of Satan. Do NOT twist the Bible. You must get this right, or you will die.
Yes, it really is a life and death issue.
After the first series of disasters rolls by, we can argue the finer points of eschatology. Until then, make ready for the worst moment in human history. But, let’s get to proving the above points.
Truth ALWAYS Trumps THEORY – ALWAYS
The Bible cannot lie. If you believe otherwise, please stop here. If you do not believe that the whole of the Bible is truth, there’s no hope for you.
So, if the Bible cannot lie, then each verse is a challenge to our theories.
We all have them. Some are right. Some are wrong. And, as you (hopefully) read your Bible, if you stumble across a verse that declares your theory wrong… well…
…it’s wrong, and you have to get it right.
Seriously, folks. If I tell you something, and the Bible disagrees with me… well, I’m wrong. It’s that simple.
The Bible is ALWAYS right. Always.
The Antichrist Must Come Before The Rapture
Paul reached out to the church in Thessalonica because they were thrown into turmoil over the idea of the Rapture. It appears that someone was telling them that they had missed it. Here is what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2:
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. – 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
The Antichrist MUST come before the Rapture. There is no other way that you can interpret this verse. None.
Unfortunately, pre-tribbers seek to twist this verse by saying that ‘falling away’ is The Rapture.
Really? Apostasy is the RAPTURE?
Here’s the Greek word that Paul used for ‘falling away’:
That is NOT – and cannot be – the word for the Rapture. In another verse, apostasia was translated as forsake in Acts 21:21, when Paul was being accused of teaching apostasy, it was because they thought that he was telling people to forsake the Law of Moses.
Apostasia is NEVER used in ANY place in the Bible in reference to the Rapture. In fact, Paul already had a word that he uses for the rapture. It’s used in this phrase:
by our gathering together unto him
The Greek word used for gathering together is:
It really does just mean ‘gather together’.
The word that pre-tribbers like to use – rapture – comes from the Latin – rapturo. It’s a good word, and I use it because that’s what people understand. The Greek version of this word is:
It means to snatch away, or to take by force. And THAT is exactly what the Lord is going to do. He’s going to snatch us away. In fact, Paul uses much the same word in 1 Thessalonians 4:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:17
The word for shall be caught up is:
And, the root is – you guessed it – harpazo.
So, when a pretribber comes to you and tries to tell you that The Great Apostasy in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is actually the rapture, tell him that he’s lying. And then, tell him this:
The Antichrist Must Come Before The Rapture
To believe otherwise is to believe a lie. And, there is only one person who is the father of lies.
The Tribulation Must Come Before The Rapture
When Jesus spoke of the Last Days, the coming of the Antichrist and the Tribulation, He made zero mention of a pre-tribulation rapture. None. Zero. Zip.
You would think – if there WAS a pre-trib rapture – that Jesus would have mentioned it here. But, He didn’t. However, He DID say this:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. – Matthew 24:29-31
(See also Mark 13:24-27)
This is Jesus, our Lord and Savior, telling us that the Rapture MUST HAPPEN AFTER THE TRIBULATION!
Please, did you get that?
The Rapture happens AFTER THE TRIBULATION. There is NO OTHER WAY TO INTERPRET THOSE VERSES!
Period. End of Statement.
Is there any part of this that you did not understand?
The Sun And Moon Must Be Darkened Before The Rapture
This next point, how the Sun and Moon must be darkened before the Rapture, piggy-backs on top of the verse that I talked about, above. But, it’s worth talking about separately. Although, this time, I’ll use Mark 13:
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. – Mark 13:24-27
Please, everyone, there is NO WAY that you can see ANY pre-tribulation rapture here. The Sun and Moon must be darkened first, and the stars fall.
Then, and only then, will The Rapture happen.
The Lord Must Descend From Heaven With A Shout Before The Rapture
You saw me talk about harpazo, above. Well, this snatching away is not going to be some quiet event. In fact, Jesus descends from the sky with a shout. Here’s the specific passage:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
I have a question to ask you:
Does this sound like the pre-trib rapture that the pretribbers talk about?
Not to me.
Jesus Must Return Before The Rapture
I have already shown you Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 above.
How does the Lord return?
Well, Jesus said that everyone would see Him return in the clouds with great power and glory. THEN He would send His angels to gather up His people from the Earth. This is His RETURN.
Does Matthew 24 or Mark 13 speak of a SECOND return?
Of course not. There is just one – THE RETURN.
Do we understand all that will happen at the time?
Probably not, but that shouldn’t keep us from accepting what our Lord and Savior told us.
The Rapture really does happen when Jesus returns.
The Resurrection Must Happen Just Before The Rapture
The pretribbers do their best to distort and explain away the evidence of a post-tribulation rapture, but they have an exceptionally tough time of it – when it comes to the resurrection. In fact, every time I raise this point, they begin attacking me personally, instead of answering the passage.
So, this passage is especially thorny for pretribbers:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. – 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
THAT is unquestionably a Rapture passage. No one can question that, and the pretribbers don’t. But, it is also a resurrection passage.
How can you have a pre-tribulation rapture, if the resurrection must happen just before (or at the same time as) the Rapture?
The answer is that you can’t. You CANNOT have a pre-tribulation rapture, because the resurrection MUST happen at the same time as the rapture. And… there is only one of them for God’s people.
There Is Only One Resurrection For Those Who Are God’s People
The reason why there cannot be a pre-tribulation rapture is that there is only one resurrection for those who are God’s people. Only one.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. – Revelation 20:4-6
Those that go through the Tribulation WILL BE IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION!!
Is there any other FIRST RESURRECTION?
Of course not, unless you want to twist the Bible.
Just to rub it in a little, here’s Jesus speaking in Luke:
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. – Luke 14:14
So, if you don’t make it in the First Resurrection, and are not in the Rapture, you will go to Hell.
Again, what happens just before (or at the same time as) the resurrection?
The Rapture.
God Promised That Christians Would Suffer
The reason why we are even having this debate is due to our desire to avoid suffering. We don’t even want to THINK about what the Antichrist will do to us during the Tribulation.
That is completely understandable, but it’s not an excuse to twist the words of God.
In fact, God promised us that we would suffer persecution and tribulation. I am mystified as to why the pretribbers think that we could avoid it. There are just too many verses that talk about this. Here are a couple:
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. - 2 Timothy 3:12
…and:
And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God. – Acts 14:21-22
I have a question to ask all of my pretribber friends:
With all the persecution that we have experienced over the past two thousand years, and are experiencing now, why do you think that we should be exempt from the persecution of the Antichrist?
Because THAT is what we are talking about. The pretribbers will tell you about how God isn’t going to pour out His wrath upon His people, but they are REALLY just interested in avoiding the Antichrist.
Well, if we haven’t been able to avoid the persecution of the communists/catholics/nazis/pagans, then we aren’t going to avoid the persecution of the Antichrist.
Well… actually …that’s not completely true.
There IS A Place Of Safety On This Earth
When God sent the ten plagues upon Egypt, He didn’t take them out of Egypt. But, He did provide them with a place that was free of these plagues. It was an area of Egypt called The Land of Goshen.
And, we can find the same idea in Revelation. According to the Book of Revelation, there is a place that will offer protection to God’s people, who flee the Antichrist:
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. – Revelation 12:13-14
There IS a place of safety that will be prepared for God’s people. And, it will be a place that will keep them safe, until the end of the Tribulation.
Do I understand how that is possible?
No. No one does. But, that shouldn’t keep us from taking it on faith.
The problem is that you will not have the opportunity to be in a place of safety, if you allow yourself to twist the Bible.
Torturing The Bible
There is no verse in the Bible that talks about a pre-tribulation rapture. I’ve seen the evidence of these false teachers, and all that they can offer are verses that they have twisted out of shape.
As someone once said:
The Bible is like a person. If you torture it enough, you can get it to say anything.
God did not intend for you to torture the Bible. He meant for you to accept it. It is His words for you.
If you would not twist the words of those that you truly love on this Earth…
…why would you twist the words of God?
My suspicion is that many pretribbers don’t love God. It’s really that simple.
Conclusion – Your Choice
So, here is what we talked about:
- Truth ALWAYS trumps THEORY – ALWAYS
- The Antichrist must come before the Rapture
- The Tribulation must come before the Rapture
- The Sun and Moon Must be Darkened before the Rapture
- The Lord Must descend from Heaven with a Shout before the Rapture
- Jesus Must Return before the Rapture
- The Resurrection must happen just before the Rapture (or, at the same time)
- There is only one resurrection for those who are God’s people
- God promised that Christians would suffer
- There IS a Place of Safety on this Earth
If you would like more proof than this, I’ve talked about various parts of the pre-tribulation rapture, here:
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/07/26/weekend-shockcast-twisting-the-bible/
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/04/28/prophecy-clock-the-rapture/
http://www.omegashock.com/2013/02/21/pre-tribulation-rapture-fraud/
http://www.omegashock.com/2013/02/20/jesuit-pretrib-rapture/
http://www.omegashock.com/2013/08/08/the-rapture-that-wasnt/
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/05/23/your-theories-will-not-protect-you/
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/04/26/weekend-shockcast-the-2000-year-war/
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/05/03/weekend-shockcast-prophecy-clock-and-timeline/
The goal of my website is to help you stay as safe as possible in the coming days, so that you can continue to serve the Lord. But, you will not be able to do that, if you believe a lie.
The pre-tribulation rapture really is a lie.
So, I leave the choice to you:
Would you rather believe God?
Or,
Would you rather believe a lie?
The choice is yours.
Choose well.
I truly hope that you’ll be ready for this
(That’s a link. Do more than just think about it.)
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If you find a flaw in my reasoning, have a question, or wish to add your own viewpoint, leave a comment on the website. Your input is truly welcome.
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
The Bible quotes you use appear to come from a Protestant Bible. PBs are untrustworthy.
The Second Advent of Christ is NOT imminent. After the Antichrist, new temple and Armageddon, Christ and His Angels will visit the earth during three days of intense plasma lightning storms to annihilate the reign of the beast and purify the world so the “holy age” can commence. During his visitation to the earth, Christ will not be visible.
The coming of a “holy age” is foreign to Protestants because PBs don’t contain the Book of ECCLESIASTICUS, also called SIRACH in which the coming of the “holy age” is foretold.
Same can be said for your KJV Bible, Louis. None of the english translations are without fault and the only way to overcome this is to check the translations against the original texts.
Once upon a time we’d have to learn Hebrew and Greek and have our own copy of Strong’s and the Interlinear to do this for ourselves. Now we have the internets and a search engine that knows where to find all the information for free.
An example i like to use is Jude 1:22. How does it read in the KJV compared to most other translations? No matter how much squinting i do i can’t get ‘Be merciful to the doubtful’ out of the KJV version. Can you, Louis?
Mayhem;
You are quite correct about translations of the Bible. Few accurate translations exist. Those that do are disparaged by the majority of the world. Weird how Satan is so successful in hood winking them.
And that includes your NWT, mikesavage, but there is a way through all of the confusion. Diligent minute study of Scripture.
http://www.openbible.info/topics/
http://biblehub.com/
These are my two favourite tools for studying The Inspired Word and there are many resources like these. So what’s your excuse Louis, mikesavage for clinging to dogma that you learned from men?
“Weird”, mikesavage? No not at all weird; not even surprising, 1 Peter 4:12
Mayhem, you are OBSCESSED with the NWT, aren’t you? Well, that’s probably good, because it is the single most accurate, when compared to the original scrolls, translation of the scriptures to date. More people, for a much longer time, have worked to ensure it’s accuracy than any other translation, and it wasn’t translated into Latin, then German, then English, as were the King James and a few others. It doesn’t remove, almost seven thousand times, God’s personal name as most others, and it doesn’t mistranslate sheol and hades into hell, when it means common grave of man. It doesn’t mistranslate into ghost as most do, and it doesn’t mistranslate into cross as do most. Nor does it mistranslate ecclesia into church when it means people or congregation of people.
Now you speak of diligent minute study of the scriptures. more than 3000 people have worked for 30 years to create the current release of the NWT and to ensure accuracy. That’s pretty diligent. I study the entire Bible cover to cover each year in detail, and compare scripture to scripture, to the original texts.
Now you ask about excuses. What is yours? You cling to misperceptions, and teachings of men and religions and refuse to search out truth in the scriptures. Your understanding is nothing if not tainted by men (Satan vicariously through men) and religion and dogma. I am part of no religion and have not been since the age of nine. I adhere to the one true faith that Jesus taught before his murder. No religion, no church, no dogma, no doctrine of men. Can you say the same? I’ve studied scriptures longer than you’ve been alive and you think you are an authority. You clearly are not. You may have a few clues, but you know little. This, of course, will anger you as you have no humility and have a lot of haughtiness in you. You couldn’t even imagine that your perception isn’t spot on the money. That behavior clearly shows that you don’t know the scriptures, or you simply choose to ignore them. Either way it’s a problem.
You talk of openbible.info and biblehub.com as though they are accurate. I assure you they are anything but accurate. Look up hell. Both sites claim it’s in the scriptures when it never appeared in the original texts. Look up cross. It appears in both sites when clearly it never appeared in the original texts. Christ was killed on a stauros. Greek for stake or pole. Sheol and hades mean common grave of man, not hell. Many other mistakes are on both sites. Stop being so self righteous when you study only inaccurate information and claim that it is accurate.
Thanks for the link to the topical thing Mayhem. Good stuff.
If what you say is true, mikesavage, how come you refuse to answer my pointed, topical questions? Is it because you know that i’m holding back and that the initial questions are merely the tip of the Iceberg? I have to wonder.
Now the folk can decide for themselves the value of the sites i recommend and hopefully note that contentious points are usually acknowledged by Biblehub. Do you get that? The site never claims to know it all. Unlike the Watch Tower, eh? You are wrong to say that they translate Hades and Sheol as “Hell”. Why would you lie about that when it’s easily checked? Would you like the links?
So what? I’m not at all impressed by the opinion of 3,000 scholars unless they are in perfect alignment with what was written for us. The Jehova Witness movement fails this test. Stop skirting around the truth, mikesavage. You can only claim that you have no religion, no church, no dogma nor doctrine (of men) because you deny that the JW’s fit the description. Semantics do not make for a credible argument in this case.
Again with the strawman and you’re repeating this one too. The only authority is with the word and you must be mistaking me for someone else. Having cleared that up; please be assured that anytime you see an “inaccuracy” from me i hope you’ll help me out by shedding light upon my error. Anything?
Can you give me an actual example of where i cling to misconceptions, the teachings of men and their religions or where i refuse to search out truth in the scriptures? Otherwise i’ll think you just did the strawman on me, again. Next you’ll be circling back to the most obvious mistranslated words…. Oh my!
Why do you speak to me like i’ve never read the Bible? You’re not the first to figure out that we get sold a bill of goods from, all, churches made by men. Sheol and Hades means grave, check. His name is Yahweh Elohim, check. No Ghost or Pre-trib rapture, check. Cross is most arguably a stake, check. No Trinity, check.
Where have i boasted? Where have i claimed to be a rock? Show me or stop presuming that you know me.The crux of your dilemma, mikesavage, is that you think you’re so far ahead of everyone else when, in reality, you’re struggling to keep up.
Mayhem;
No, I will not fall for your childish tactics. You’re wrong and understand very little scriptural principles. It’s not worth a debate with you. It’s just wasting time and I don’t see any use in that. You simply are not honest. God doesn’t see an honest heart in you and I don’t either. God doesn’t help you understand scripture and that’s more than enough of an indicator for me to not debate with you. Ask all the rediculous questions you like, but you will not get an answer.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/181655549/Escape-from-Mass-Extinction
The “rapture” Prophets for PROFIT are ANTI-Christ DEATH CULTISTS. God/Jesus put you in this LIFE to learn “soul lessons”, to increase your consciousness to the point of Redemption. Hagee and his Ilk REJECT the LIFE God gave you, and dangle a “shortcut” in front of people, just as SATAN dangled Temptation in front of Jesus. Do not follow the ANTI-Christ lies of FALSE prophets. Their “shortcut” of cheating God’s lessons does NOT lead to Heaven, any more than cheating on school work teaches you the subject. Hagee, Robertson, the whole group, do NOT believe in anything except the MONEY they collect for leading their Flocks astray.
With more than 50 millions members, Christians United for Israel is a major politica force in the U.S.. Its Chairman, pastor John Haggee, declared: “The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God’s plan for both Israel and the West, [...] a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ”. Have you ever LOOKED at HAGEE — at best he is a glutton ….
“rapture” is actually a vicarious form of SUICIDE. “rapture” is an extremely SELF-ABSORBED way of saying “I am SO perfect” and anyone I dislike will be LEFT BEHIND to suffer(feel bad because I am gone) but I will revel in heaven.
One of the major problems America faces is a large population of religious fundamentalists who have become as fanatical in their own way as any Middle Eastern Ayatollah. At present, they are caught up in their own version of the myth of the end of the world, and hope that by working to bring it about, they’ll get to sit at the right hand of their diety and to hell with everyone else. No doubt fistfights will break out over who gets to sit closest, but that is a subject for another article.
So fervent is the belief of the mythoholics that they are ready and willing to sacrifice money, children, civil rights, freedom, even life itself (so long as it is someone else’s) to bring about the final rapture and end of the world. Never mind that the story of the Rapture appears nowhere in the Bible, but was the invention of a Civil War veteran, Cyrus Scofield. Never mind that the present-day charlatan selling this belief might be a child molester and makes money off of these fables; the seekers (and there is one born every minute) do so want to believe!
“The Incredible Scofield and His Book” written by Joseph M. Canfield, reveals the following:Cyrus Scofield is a small time politician and career criminal. In 1873, he is forced to resign his position as a District Attorney because of crooked financial transactions that include accepting bribes stealing political contributions, and securing bank notes by forging signatures. Scofield then serves jail time for forgery charges. A heavy drinker, Scofield later abandons his wife and two daughters. His wife finally divorces the drunken crook in 1883. As so many con-men do, Scofield will then claim to have “found Jesus”. He is ordained as a Minister and then claims to have a Doctor of Divinity degree, but this degree is never verified. After several mysterious trips to Europe and New York, Scofield publishes the notated reference Bible that bears his name. The added side notes in Scofield’s Bible inject a very weird “End Times” prophecy into Christianity.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Christ promises the Church to keep them from this tribulation period.
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Notice Christ says “All these things that shall come to pass” not some, not partly, ALL.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be TAKEN out of the way. <–Holy Spirit dwells within the believer, and the believers will be removed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
After believers are removed, THEN Antichrist is revealed. Proper exegesis of the word of God.
Isaiah 26:20-21 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. <-God hides his people before pouring out His wrath upon the earth.
Now look at John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
In Isaiah 26:20-21 you see God's people being hid in their chambers. Jesus built these chambers, John 14:1-3. The context of Isaiah 26:20-21 is the Tribulation period, aka Day of the Lord.
God never judges the righteous with the wicked. Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
God always removes His own before pouring out His wrath. The teaching God's blood bought bride shall endure the wrath of God, is a serious change in God's behavior. The immutable God never ever change His behavior.
God removed Lot before He poured out His wrath. God never changes. Malachi 3:1 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Those who come to Christ during this time period (The day of the Lord, aka Tribulation) will suffer great persecution.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The Antichrist shall overcome these people. Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Now look at Christ's promise to the Church: Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Antichrist prevailing against the Church itself is in direct contradiction to Matthew 16:18.
The fact is this, God's entire purpose for this Tribulation period is dealing directly with Israel once again. NOT the Church, the Church will be with Christ and return with Christ at the 2nd coming.
Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
In Matthew 25, we see Jesus at His 2nd coming separating the sheep from the goats. The sheep will inherit the kingdom of God. Now if the Church is raptured at His 2nd coming at the end of this period. Who is left to populate the earth? The Church will now possess redeemed bodies and will not be allowed to marry. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
This simple fact alone buries the doctrine of Post Tribulation rapture.
Well done, Andoron.
Please see /prophecy/2014/07/shocking-breaking-twisting-hyping-2463208.html for my last article here. There’s an invitation at the end.
You said:
“After believers are removed, THEN Antichrist is revealed. Proper exegesis of the word of God.”
Improper exegesis of the word of God. Paul gives the complete opposite order of events than you do. Paul says the antichrist comes first and then the rapture occurs after that:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
—2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
This same order that Paul gives is also given in chapters 12 and 13 of Revelation:
Look at what happens in chapter 12 of Revelation, Satan is cast out of heaven, taken out of the way:
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
—REV 12:7-11
And what happens next? Lo and behold, the beast arises:
“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”
—REV 13:1
You said:
“God always removes His own before pouring out His wrath.”
You mean like He removed the Israelites from Egypt?
Oh that’s right, He didn’t remove them when the angel of death came. The angel of death passed over them because of the blood of the lamb. Likewise, the saints are protected and are victorious by the blood of the lamb in the tribulation.
You said:
“God removed Lot before He poured out His wrath.”
Was Lot raptured out of the earth? Nope.
It is the prayer of Jesus in John 17:15 for the Father to not takes us out of the world, but to protect us from the Evil One. This then is what believers should set their sights on: being kept safe from the Evil One, overcoming and enduring UNTIL the end, not being raptured out of here BEFORE the end.
You said:
“Those who come to Christ during this time period (The day of the Lord, aka Tribulation) will suffer great persecution.”
No one comes to Christ during the tribulation. That is the time Jesus spoke of when He said “the night is coming when no one can work” (John 9:4).
You said:
“Antichrist prevailing against the Church itself is in direct contradiction to Matthew 16:18.”
Antichrist does not prevail against the Church. He will be given power to overcome them for a time (42 months), but Jesus will come in judgment and raises the saints to life and tosses the antichrist into the lake of fire. The Church wins.
You said:
“Now if the Church is raptured at His 2nd coming at the end of this period. Who is left to populate the earth?….. This simple fact alone buries the doctrine of Post Tribulation rapture”
To the contrary, one of many Scriptures that invalidates a pre-trib rapture is verse 31 below:
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot’s wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
—Luke 17:30-36
The rapture cannot be some secret, poof-out-of-nowhere event. For when the Son of Man is revealed, if someone is on the roof of his house, he should not go down into the house to get his goods. Or if someone is in the field, he should not go back into his house to get his goods. If the rapture is this mysterious event where….poof, everyone is gone in an instant, then there would be no thought process that they could get down off their roof and go into their house. Or if they are in the field, there would be no thought process that they could run back to their house.
When Jesus returns, everyone will know it and everyone will see it (see Revelation 1:7). Whether Christians are taken up or “left behind” depends on what their thought process is at that time, what their inclinations are at that time. That is, if they are watching and if they are ready. Only those who remain firm UNTIL THE END will be saved (see Matthew 24:13).
And when Jesus does return, apparently half of the believers will lose their lives (see Luke 17:33 above) at the Second Coming because they will try and save their lives and hence, will lose it. And when I say lose it, I mean like Adam and Eve lost it. They lost their spiritual life, not their physical life in the garden of Eden. Same thing here. These believers who were not ready for Him will enter into the Millennium in their mortal bodies.
But if any believer wants to be ready for Jesus at His Second Coming (the rapture), see this:
/prophecy/2013/12/the-second-coming-why-it-is-so-important-to-be-ready-for-it-2456898.html
Wow, you sure are wrong in your assumtions. No church will be saved from the tribulation. Only the annointed, and their followers will. Anyone clinging to any religion will die.
Improper exegesis of the word of God. Paul gives the complete opposite order of events than you do. Paul says the antichrist comes first and then the rapture occurs after that:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Paul is stating here that Antichrist cannot be revealed until there is a falling away, an apostasy.
Now Paul gives us the order of operations:
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be TAKEN out of the way. <–Holy Spirit dwells within the believer, and the believers will be removed.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
After believers are removed, THEN Antichrist is revealed. Proper exegesis of the word of God.
So here is the proper sequence of events Paul has given us, Antichrist cannot arise until there is an apostasy, then the hinderer is removed (Born again indwelt Believers, NOT the Devil)
The Devil is working overtime through the emergent church movement, the ecumenical/interfaith movements to establish his one world religion of Antichrist. The Devil is NOT the hinderer. Your assertion this is the Devil is just beyond ridiculous.
After the hinderer is removed, THEN Antichrist is revealed. This is the proper sequence of events. What you've done is taken 3 verses and then IGNORING the next 4 verses. NOT proper exegesis, in fact it's deliberate ignorance.
Your math equation of the Devil being the hinderer of Antichrist would be 2+2=0
Beyond irrational.
Let me address another logical fallacy you've made: You mean like He removed the Israelites from Egypt?
Oh that’s right, He didn’t remove them when the angel of death came. The angel of death passed over them because of the blood of the lamb. Likewise, the saints are protected and are victorious by the blood of the lamb in the tribulation.
The saints during the tribulation will be beheaded by Antichrist, and overcome. What kind of "Protection" are you speaking of?
Are you even thinking this stuff through as you type it?
Was Lot raptured out of the earth? Nope. No, Lot was removed from Sodom before God poured out His wrath. Just like God will remove His Church before pouring out His wrath on the ENTIRE WORLD.
How do miss the obvious like that?
No one comes to Christ during the tribulation. That is the time Jesus spoke of when He said “the night is coming when no one can work” (John 9:4).
No offense, but I can tell you need to study the bible a lot better.
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. <–A LOT of people come to Christ during this time period.
The rapture cannot be some secret, poof-out-of-nowhere event.
I've never ever understood why people call this the "secret rapture". In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 the bible plainly states the dead in Christ rise first. Was the resurrection of Christ a secret event, or a public one? The rapture will be a very public event. . The only thing that is secret about this event is the day and hour of the event. Not the event itself.
Luke 17:30-36 is NOT the rapture, it's about the nation of Israel who is enduring the tribulation period. One shall be taken, one shall be left. If you claim this is the rapture, then 50% of the planet is saved. Do you honestly believe 50% of the population of this planet is born again?
God does not subject His bride to His wrath. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Revelation 6:16-17 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Following your teaching, I should be looking for Antichrist, instead of Christ.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
You turn the blessed hope into this: You will be massacred by Antichrist, then be forced to endure the wrath of God as he pours it out on earth.
Regarding the first 3 verses of 2nd Thessalonians 2, you said:
“Paul is stating here that Antichrist cannot be revealed until there is a falling away, an apostasy.”
You are completely contradicting Paul. Here, let everyone see how you are contradicting Paul:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
—2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
You claim that in verse 3, the “falling away” is the rapture. But Paul is saying “that day” in verse 3 is the rapture. For “that day” in verse 3 is the “day of Christ” in verse 2, which is the “gathering together” (or rapture) in verse 1.
You said:
“The saints during the tribulation will be beheaded by Antichrist, and overcome. What kind of “Protection” are you speaking of?
Are you even thinking this stuff through as you type it?”
And in your previous post, you said:
“Antichrist prevailing against the Church itself is in direct contradiction to Matthew 16:18.”
So according to you, since Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, the Church cannot be persecuted. Christianity rose quickly because of the early Christian martyrs. Do you consider the Christians who were fed to the lions, or sawed in half, members of the Church? What about Stephen, who was stoned to death, was he a member of the Church?
The two witnesses, who are members of the Church, kill their enemies by fire from their mouths. They cannot be harmed until they have fulfilled their mission. All Christians, if they hide themselves in the Lord in the secret place, have divine protection while they are fulfilling their destiny. In the tribulation, some are meant to be killed by the sword, and others are meant to survive until the end.
You said:
“No offense, but I can tell you need to study the bible a lot better.
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. <–A LOT of people come to Christ during this time period.”
You are reading things into the Bible which are not there. The saints in REV 7:14 in white robes were killed during the tribulation (see REV 6:11). What makes you think they will come to Christ DURING the tribulation? You have no Scriptural backing for that.
You said:
“Luke 17:30-36 is NOT the rapture, it’s about the nation of Israel who is enduring the tribulation period. One shall be taken, one shall be left. If you claim this is the rapture, then 50% of the planet is saved. Do you honestly believe 50% of the population of this planet is born again?”
No, not at all. Most of the people living will receive the mark of the beast. I’m talking about those who are believers who do not receive the mark of the beast. At the Second Coming/rapture, half of those will not remain firm in their faith and will be frightened at the awesomeness of the Second Coming, and so they will not be ready for Him and hence will lose their lives.
You said:
“God does not subject His bride to His wrath.”
I agree. The wrath of God in the tribulation comes down on those who belong to the beast.
You said:
“Following your teaching, I should be looking for Antichrist, instead of Christ.”
No, following Paul’s teaching, you should be looking for the Antichrist to appear before the rapture can occur.
Other reasons why the Rapture is a pretribulational event are:
Jesus builds us place in His Father’s house. Now why is this relevant? It’s a clear picture of a Jewish wedding. The prospecting groom in ancient Israel built a room at his father’s house. The father decides when the son is finished with the room and commands his son to fetch his bride.
The bride must have her bags packed and ready, she knows not how long it will take for her groom to finish building the room. When the groom comes to fetch his bride, a trumpet is blown and a person says in a loud voice “Behold the bridge groom comes!”. This is also tied into the feast of the Lord known as Rosh Hashanah or Yom Teruah. The feast of trumpets. This feast does not begin until the sliver of the moon is spotted by two witnesses. Nobody knows the day or hour this feast will even start!
First and foremost, we must understand that the primary purpose of the Tribulation Period (“The Day of the Lord”) is to chasten and refine the nation of Israel—not the Church of Jesus Christ
The Church is perfected forever by the once for all offering of Christ. Hebrews 10:14
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God. <–It is Israel that goes through this tribulation period, NOT the Church.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
In Revelation 3:10 we see the plain and clear promise given by Christ that he will keep us from this hour, aka the Day of the Lord.
In Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
There is a great multitude who convert to Christ during this tribulation period. Thanks to the 144,000 witnesses. These people will pay for their faith with their lives. Many of them shall die at the hands of Antichrist.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Another interesting fact is this: In the first 3 chapters of Revelation, Jesus directly addresses the 7 Churches. In Revelation chapter 4, John hears the "voice of a trumpet" and Jesus says "Come up hither". The Church is not seen again until Revelation 19, when Christ returns in power and glory.
In Revelation 4, John sees the 24 elders casting their crowns at the feet of Jesus. Now why is this important? In Luke 14:14, Jesus said we shall be recompensed (receive our rewards) at the resurrection of the Just.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 says the dead in Christ rise first, and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (raptured) with them. The very fact these elders have their crowns, shows this resurrection has already taken place. The rapture has already happened. Then Christ is handed the seal judgments. Thus proving the rapture to be a pretribulational event.
There are even more examples I can give, but I think some maybe suffering from information overload if they're reading all of this. I say do not take my word for it, or anyone else.
Be a good diligent Berean, and search out these matters for yourselves in the bible.
Jesus Christ in Revelation 20: 4 confirms a rapture is impossible
Revelation 20: 4 – 6
4 “I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I
Saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and
because of the Word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had
not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.”
Jesus Christ in Verse 4 confirms the impossibility of a rapture:
If the rapture had occurred and the Saints were already in heaven:— How could or would it be possible for God’s Saint’s – –to be beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and for the Word of God and because they would not worship the beast or his image and because they refused his mark —-as All of these things occur during the Great Tribulation and during the very 3 ½ years those in the rapture are supposedly in heaven with Christ.
And then they come to life and reign with Christ for 1000 years? John saw them seated on thrones after they come to life [the dead do not sit on thrones] after being beheaded, after their testimony, after refusing the Mark, after not worshiping the Beast. Those that are in a rapture are supposed to escape all of these things and already be raised to incorruptible. But Jesus Christ says some will be beheaded.
For verse 4 to be true the Saints of God must be on earth during the 3 ½ years of the reign of the Beast and the False Prophet– AND — that reign is over the 2 ½ years of the Great Tribulation and the third year which is the Day of the LORD. Thus the rapture can not be!
This time frame is the entire 3 ½ years of the time of the rule of the Beast Power. This is another absolute conformation the Saints are on earth for the entire 3 ½ years and never in heaven. And did you read; John saw thrones; the Saints were seated and had been given authority to judge to rule — on earth with Christ for 1000 years. And again to refresh your memory, the Tribulation was cut short by Jesus Christ – cut short — it is no longer 6 years in length but is now 2 ½.
5 “(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection“. (vs. 4 confirms it is the first resurrection)
Those that came to life and reigned with Christ are in the first resurrection and are the Saints and the rest of the dead will be in the 2nd resurrection occurring after the 1000 year reign of the Saints with Christ. The 2nd resurrection is the estimated 100 billion that have lived and died from Adam until Christ returns.
Verses 4 and 5 confirm there are 2 resurrections, other scriptures point to a third and final resurrection.
6 ‘Blessed and Holy are those who have part in — the First Resurrection. The Second Death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.”
Is this the First Resurrection or the Rapture? Those in the First Resurrection will become kings and priests (teachers) and reign with Christ for the 1000 years on earth. Notice it does not say those in the first rapture to heaven? Christ states over and over, the Saints will reign on Earth with Him.
“The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie”
Quite right. Rapture = ecstasy, an internal high. Not literally floated up into the sky high. The Pre-Tribulation Rapture originates from an uneducated child telling fairy stories after being caught daydreaming instead of doing their chores. An educated person would know that ‘rapture’ is an emotion.