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Christian Churches will all but vanish once this deception is realized

Friday, July 14, 2017 17:10
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The Pre tribulation Rapture deception is a false hope that many cling to. The tribulations that once strengthened Christianity, are now avoided at all costs.

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception teaches a gathering of God’s Elect before the return of Christ. This is not an option or a possibility, it is a blatant lie.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption (1 Cor 15:50).

The kingdom of God is wherever Christ is, and He brings this kingdom to us, as opposed to taking us to it.

Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception is a false hope that many cling to

Christ said, “when you see these things come to pass then look up for your redemption is at hand.” These things represent the events of the great tribulation, so then the Pre tribulation Rapture deception represents yet another false teaching.

When we are absent from the body, we are present with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). However at the end of this age we shall be with Him in a transformed spirit, soul and body (1 Thes 5:23).

1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The timing of when the Elect are changed is obviously at the end of the tribulation period, which has a duration of three and one half years.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 10:7, refers to Rev 11:15, which is the seventh trumpet. This is also a reference to the last trumpet mentioned in 1Cor 15:52.

The last trump is at the end of The Great Tribulation period on earth, when we shall be changed, and put on incorruption and immortality. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception is a heresy, and is one of many false beliefs adhered to by those who are merely playing church.

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Our redemption and Salvation are one in the same and are realized upon Christ’s second coming. Where our Lord is, there also is His kingdom. His first coming was to allow for our salvation, and the second will be to bring our salvation.

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception allows for a certain group to escape the judgment, which is impossible.

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which are dead in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead in Christ, are the first to put on incorruption and immortality. Contrary to the Pre tribulation Rapture deception teaching, Christ descends from heaven with the elect, He does not take anyone up to Heaven (1 Cor 15:42-53, 1 Thes 4:13-17).

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

Is it really plausible that Christ would both bring the dead with Him to earth, and then takes those from earth up to heaven? The Pre tribulation Rapture deception story quickly looses credibility in light of the true teachings of Christ Jesus.

Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.

If we truly were taken to heaven as taught by the Pre tribulation Rapture deception group, Christ would not need to bring anyone to earth.

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the cloud, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This verse above is the primary one used by those who teach the Pre tribulation Rapture deception. After the tribulation, the Lord returns in a cloud, and all eyes shall see Him (Rev 1:7). There is no secret gathering, and Christ only returns once in a very visible manner. It also should be noted that Christ will return to this earth a second time, and nowhere in scripture is it ever implied that He ever returns to Heaven.

Mark 13:24-26 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,  And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.  And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

To attempt to justify a Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires the destruction of a lot of Scripture

Pre tribulation Rapture deception

  •  We are not taken up to the kingdom of heaven, but rather Christ brings the kingdom to us.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven (Matt 6:10).

  • Wherever Christ is there the Elect will be also, the Elect are the ones left behind. Those taken are ushered into hell, to await the second death (Rev 19:20, 20:6, 20:10-15).
  • The elect are to reign with Christ for a thousand years. There is only one resurrection for those who are accounted worthy to reign with Christ. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires two resurrections. (Rev 20:5-6. Luke 20:35-36).
  • The Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires a third advent of Christ, which is not taught as a true doctrine.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The Words of Truth that Jesus spoke do not allow for the Pre tribulation Rapture deception. This fairy tale is not a part of the Gospel message.

We need to receive His Word in our hearts as well as our minds. As well, it is essential to allow Christ’s Holy Spirit to dwell within us, so as to understand his Word. This indwelling does not automatically happen just because we know of Him.

To claim that all who accept Christ are Born again is another misguided and deadly deception of the false teachers. To be Born Again is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and when this gift is received the understanding of the Word of God becomes possible. Once we have this understanding, the Pre tribulation Rapture deception is easily recognized as another false teaching.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception will be a deception unto damnation for many

He that endures until the end shall be saved, to teach that Salvation occurs at any other time…


for the complete article click on this link The Pre tribulation Rapture deception

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Total 35 comments
  • goastdale

    Jesus ALREADY RETURNED FOR THE “2ND” AND LAST TIME……..There are no more comings of Jesus and the day of the lord does not last for 24 hours!?!…….

    Even Islamic theology is waiting for the second coming of Christ but this is also how we know slam dunk that Muhammad was a false teacher…just like most “bible teaching Christians”…….THE SECOND COMING Thou Fool! “I come quickly” so “Hold fast till i come”… NOT …“in another 2000 yrs I might be coming soon any time now, so hold fast”!?! …those that deny the second coming of Christ in that first generation are practicing a damnable heresy in denying the lord that bought them ( 2Peter 2:1-2 ;2Tim 4:8)…….Mat 7:23..”I NEVER KNEW YOU” …..Mat 10:33. But whosoever shall deny me before men……..sound familiar?…. ……. If I said I am coming to your house in this generation when these things happen but no one knows the day or hour what fool would think I might be coming in 2000 years latter!?!? ..2 Tim 4: 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be TURNED UNTO FABLES……. It is a biblical fact according to the bibles own figures that last days are the last 70 years of the number of years between BC596…to AD70 = 666 yrs the period of time outlined once as a MAN and once as a BEAST in Daniel Ch 2 & 7 respectively .as the time the 7 fold (7 seals/trumps vials) curse of the law of Moses was poured out on the physical seed of Israel purified until only a spiritual seed was left…

    Gal 1: 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    The book of Revelation offers us an interesting Theological dilemma. It states Rev 22:16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. Revelation also states it is “the true sayings” of Jesus and that it is “the testimony of Christ”. If this is not “the gospel of Jesus Christ” then what is it and should we consider it accursed testimony of an angel? If it is not to be considered accursed, then it cannot be some other gospel message then what was already given previously. However, this is the conundrum, for if this is the gospel message, then why do so few understand it? There is a possibility which few consider but is the overall thesis of this apology. The reason people don’t understand revelation is because they never understood what the gospel message was in the first place! In that case, where does that put those who claim it is not essential for salvation? Do you not find it quite curious that the most “Personally” given NT book By Jesus himself, is the least understood and given the least importance for Salvation in Christendom?….There are numerous preachers and bible exegetes but as Paul said “… I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge” . Most who profess the name of Christ are feeding on doctrines of devils and the ignorant.. There are, without question, many “qualified” teachers and scholars with many years of “dedication” and “solid education”. However, teachers, no matter how well lettered or numbered in degrees; if obtained from others; who are just as equally ignorant in such matters, are just “ blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”………………

    Revelation the First Gospel of the Kingdom
    978-1-4907-0590-3 (ISBN)

    Those looking for a physical return of Christ and your physical body to “leave the dirt” resurrected (1Cor 15:36-37) you are carnal mined & or living in prov 26:12

    DAY OF THE LORD”/ YEAR OF THE LORD – does NOT last for 24 hours!?!..Also means the day of resurrection & judgment do not last for one hour or one day either! They only begin (NOT END) in a certain hour & on a certain 24 hour day ….”SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS to arise”…..NOT..”come & get (your new resurrected body) it while it is still hot, only 24 hours of solar power left”!?!

    The second coming took place already and Christ promised that only HIS PEOPLE would see him ….John 14:19. Yet a little while, and THE WORLD SEETH ME NO MORE;….. [2 Cor 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ AFTER THE FLESH, yet NOW HENCEFORTH KNOW WE HIM NO MORE….(here the Context of John 14 is his second coming)…..continued…..but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20. AT THAT DAY .. 21. He that hath my commandments, and KEEPETH THEM, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM……(again taking note “as he is” or 1Jn 3:2)

    22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, HOW IS IT THAT THOU WILT MANIFEST THYSELF UNTO US AND NOT UNTO THE WORLD? 23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, HE WILL KEEP MY WORDS: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.( Rev 3:20) 24. He that loveth me not.. (1Cor 16:22)…. KEEPETH NOT MY SAYINGS: ( REV 9:16-20)

    REVELATION 1:7. Behold, HE COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, …. There is a parallel here with ………….Exodus 24:10. And THEY SAW THE GOD OF ISRAEL : and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also THEY SAW GOD, and did eat and drink………..But Christ said….. John 1:18. NO MAN HATH SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. A person can see with their understanding and or see with their eyes…. It can see “seen” for certain that everything that Christ described was seen by the folks of that day in His coming but do they perceive that was him? …So what Christ said is true every eye saw him but the world does not see him….. With the eye they and folks still today can see everything Christ described to have taken place, but they do not “keep” ( believe and understand) his words as such they do not see him nor shall they ever.

    The saints who have physical died faithful in the flesh (every man in his own order) are changed in the blink of an eye & caught up to sit on that Great white throne ( this congregation of the saints is the body of Christ that folks will answer to at the judgment and these saints will judge all men who cannot see Christ along with the rest of the world……Folks think they are waiting to see Jesus but they will NEVER see Jesus himself they will only see the body of Christ condemn them the saints judge the world (Rev 3:21; 1 Cor 6:2 et al) the saints are the body of Christ…that is the only part of Christ they shall see….only the saints shall see God face to face…..most peoples idea of the second coming & day of the Lord and the judgment is completely wrong Revelation The First Gospel of The Kingdom



    978-1-4907-0590-3 (SC ISBN)

    • CTrent33

      “Jesus ALREADY RETURNED FOR THE “2ND” AND LAST TIME……..There are no more comings of Jesus..”


  • The Watcher


  • truck driver

    Church denominations spin scriptures and hide other scriptures so learn the Bible puzzle and fit scriptures from other parts of the Bible that agree together. It’s up to you to get yourself saved. And understand the Bible. When I read John and Romans helped me put the puzzle together. Galatians 5:4 if you try to justify yourself by works you have fallen from Grace. John 9 the only work you need to be saved is to believe. See how those scriptures fit like a puzzle

  • Jan Beute

    Your message is like telling Lot to remain at Sodom and Gomorra and to let Noah drown in the flood

    • Truthseeker

      jan beute

      a rapture is about escaping physical pain and being able to say “ha ha I get to go to heaven and you don’t”

      Jan what is the determining factor between those that go and those that stay? Is it just accepting the doctrine of a rapture that make one “worthy” of a rapture as that appears to be the case? So sad

      Is it just ” letting Jesus into one’s heart” — most of so called christlianity has made that statement “with their mouths ” so what is the determining factor?

      As the entire Word of God speaks of the resurrection and not a rapture and those in the resurrection have “endured until the END” and keep the Commandments of God What then is the huge difference between a rapture and the resurrection??

      The first resurrection is the manifestation of the SON OF GOD the FATHER, For the very first time those born again into incorruptible bodies at that first resurrected are revealed to the entire world by their proud FATHER and their elder brother.

      Like any proud Father, our Heavenly Father will show the entire world HIS SONS,

      he will not snatch them away to hide them from the earth —–


      Jan the WORK of God is on earth not in heaven and it is not done yet, the entire earth must be restored as the Garden of Eden with the 12 tribes of Jacob living in the Promised Land in PEACE.

      You and all “hoping” for a rapture are going sink into a deep depression and may end up hating God.

      • Firmament Does Exist

        The “church” must repent of breaking YHWH Sabbath, following Rome’s calendar, celebrating pagan days instead of YHWH kodesh days, not knowing His name or Messiah Hebrew name, being “Christian” is following Rome and not “The Way”.

        • Anonymous

          Galatians 4

          9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
          10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
          11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

          Colossians 2

          14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
          15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
          16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
          17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

          Romans 14

          5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
          6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
          7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
          8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
          9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
          10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

          So, tell you what, become an authentic Christian, repent of your silly, legalistic bondage and doctrines of demons. Clearly, this is a matter of you first. Then that’s it: it all ends there, your personal problem resolved, no muss, no fuss. All you need to is try to accept the faith of scripture. And just think that, if you repent and believe scripture, think of all the silly things you may not say in the future? That Hebrew roots corpse will be off your back, beggarly elements nowhere to be found, free in Christ, sound good?

          Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

          Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

          Galatians 3

          10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
          11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
          12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
          13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
          14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

          • Truthseeker


            I just put a paper on BIN concerning Colossians 2 proving it was not the Law that was nailed to the stake of Jesus Christ.

          • Truthseeker


            Are you actually stating the Sabbath is a “weak and beggarly element”,

            The last thing that was made, the 7th Day Sabbath, is a weak and beggarly thing of man????

          • destinedtoberevealed

            Well said True Believers are under the New Covenant Law!!!!

            None who are in Christ can be under the Old Testament law

            Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

            This passage refers to the whole house of Israel which includes all believers in Christ. Those that truly embrace the words of the Lord Jesus are most definitely not under the Old Testament law. Those filled with the Holy Spirit are the Elect, chosen unto Christ. The promise of eternal life which is incorruption and immortality is the hope of the Spirit filled believer and is our assurance of Salvation.

            Isa 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

            Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

            Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

            Isaiah is referring to the followers of Jesus, who is God manifest in the flesh. It is and will always be Christ Jesus that men despise. Those who are void of the truth that only comes through Christ, serve their father the devil, and share in his hatred of the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

            Isaiah’s prophesy is of a people that would know the new law of Christ; this law would be written in their hearts. Those who follow the New Testament law of Jesus are not under the Old Testament law, and they will receive redemption at the second coming of Jesus.

            Isa 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy [shall be] upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

            Jesus (Yahshua) the Lord God of Israel, is the one who will redeem the true Israel of God (Luke 1:68, 24:21).

            Isaiah is speaking of the second gathering of the true Israel of God, a future prophecy that has yet to occur.

            James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

            Christ also came to redeem those that were under the law, that they also might receive the adoption of sons (Gal 4:5, John 1:17, Rom 3:20).

          • destinedtoberevealed

            When we bear one another’s burdens, we fulfill the law of Christ (Gal 6:2).

            Six of the commandments under the old law were unto doing no harm to others. The commandment of Loving others is much greater than these.

            The second commandment of the new the law of Christ is fulfilled in this; thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself (Gal 5:14). This was not realized by most under the Old Testament law, as it was spiritually discerned.

            Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

            We are not under the Old Testament law, but the law of Christ’s grace. To claim to be under the Old Testament law when we have access to the new law of Christ, is self righteousness unto death.

            Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

            Those of the religions of judaism and christianity, who claim to be under the Old Testament law do not have a personal relationship with the creator Christ the King.

            To claim righteousness by attempting to follow the works of the law without faith was and still is dead works.

            Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

            We need to be led by the spirit of truth, which declares that we are not under the Old Testament law of bondage, but the law of Christ wherein we can have liberty.

            Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

            Again it is not at all about religious persuasions or doctrines of men, but a new life in Christ. This can only be understood by those who are taught of the Holy Spirit, which is given to the faithful who come to Jesus as little children.

            Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

            The Israel of God represents all believers who are in Christ.

          • Truthseeker

            destined how many statements spoken by Jesus Christ will it take to prove to you the LAW is eternal, the LAW is Holy, just and Good and is “the LAW’ Jesus Christ and His Father both live by now and for ever?

            Your mind is closed and only the Father can open it, it remains to be seen if you repent after you go through the tribulation or if you will die before Christ returns and then come up in the 2nd resurrection.

            In either case you will obey our Master – you will live by every WORD of God or you will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

            Why do you suppose when Christ returns He will rule with a Rod of Iron?

    • Anonymous

      “Your message is like telling Lot to remain at Sodom and Gomorra and to let Noah drown in the flood”

      Just so, Jan Beute. I wish I could remember how the gentleman told it, and one quite the Spirit-filled Bible teacher, but he pointed out the senselessness, saying something like this:

      Is your Lord Jesus the worst, psycho domestic abuser? The God who would have spared all Sodom, if Abraham found only ten righteous men? You profess your love for your spotless, virgin bride, dressed in her beautiful white gown, clothed in the very righteousness of Christ, then proceed to beat her to a bloody pulp, drag her to the church, her wedding gown soaked in blood, and say, “How I love you! Now, let’s get married, babe!”?

      It’s pure slander of the Lord. Who is this God of people that is like some creep in a Dateline episode? What’s sad is how many people don’t even know the God they profess to believe in, the most serious question, “Just how can this be?” John 16:13.

  • truck driver

    Only reason a ⛪ snitch will disappear is if they are a cult, preaching sports and wonderful things and news about rich people and good things other people have done, instead of the Gospel

  • DJ

    The timing is a Post -tribulation/pre-wrath rapture. The problem has been that some cannot discriminate between the tribulation that is intended to cause mankind to turn from the world to God, and the pouring out of wrath, which is to demonstrate the obstinacy of those who refuse to turn to God. There is a difference between the breaking of the 7 seals and the pouring out of the 7 bowls.

  • Truthseeker

    destined this is why so called christian churches will cease to exist and soon.

    22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

    23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

    Destined you are rebelling against the “VOICE of GOD” and you even teach others they should not obey and they should REJECT the WORD of GOD!

    Do you think this statement from Samuel to Saul that came from GOD is a lie — Do you think it has now been aborted or ended or abolished or somehow is no longer true???

    If so you worship a god that changes his ways — My Father and HIS SON never change!!

    A sin that was sin yesterday — is sin today and forever!

    • Truthseeker

      destined from the stand point of logic and scripture you are not even standing on one leg, you are flat on your face.

  • destinedtoberevealed

    What part of this message from Christ Himself do you not understand?
    After the Tribulation the Elect will be gathered!!!
    I wonder how many will be eligible to even be considered worthy?

    Christ declared, One shall be taken and the other shall be left behind. As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man returns. The ones taken are to be destroyed; we most definitely want to be left behind, to inherit the Kingdom on earth at Christ’s Second Coming.

    Mark 13:24-27 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    Christ made it very clear that after the tribulation He would gather all of the elect together. It would be unnecessary to gather the heavenly host, if it were not for the fact that they also were to reign on earth with Him.

    After this great tribulation we will receive a kingdom that cannot be moved (Rev 8:12; 9:2; Heb 12:28).

    The verses below from Isaiah speak of quite a different atmosphere on planet earth at His second coming. You may want to read this entire chapter as it paints an awesome picture of the future.

    Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

    There is no doubt that the Millennium, with Jesus reigning will involve quite a spectacular transformation. Also it fulfills one of the desires that the believer prays for as taught to us by Christ …thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven…

    Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

    Satan is the god of this world that is to be destroyed. How then can we put so much emphasis on the illusion of security, through the accumulation of material things that perish? All who love this present world, and are not rich towards God will be taken, and will not inherit the new earth.

    Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

    The elect inherit the restored earth and they will enjoy the fruits of their labor, peace instead of war, and joy instead of sorrow. One shall be taken to be destroyed, and the one given the title of God’s elect, is left behind. We will be gathered together to meet Christ and all those that He brings with Him.

    Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    • Truthseeker


      29 Immediately —- after — the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

      “’After”” — The tribulation is — OVER – then the 6th Seal which is the heavenly signs — begins,, the heavenly signs i.e. the 6th Seal ends the Tribulation, cut it short and prevents all flesh from being destroyed,,

      And then comes the Day of the LORD which is the 7th Seal and at the end of which the sign of the Son of Man shall appear and THEN all shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven and then is when the angels gather the Saints of God to meet Christ in the clouds.

      The tribulation is 2 ½ years and the Day of the LORD is one year:

      the Day of the LORD is the wrath of God upon the gentile nations that have been taken into captivity the whole House of Israel.

      the 5th, 6th and 7th Seals occur in the last 3 1/2 years of the 7 year time of the end, the first 4 Seals during the first 3 1/2 years

      The wrath of God on the gentiles are the 7 Trumpet plagues found in the 7th Seal.

      30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

      The sign of HIS coming is great LIGHT greater then our sun.

      Destined you have so many problems I do not know where to begin.

      Destined you jumped from the tribulation to the return of Christ ignoring the heavenly signs and the year of the Day of the LORD,

      All scripture must be used together to determine truth.

      Joel makes it clear:

      29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

      This speaks of Acts 2

      30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

      This is the 6th Seal

      31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

      This is also the 6th Seal followed by the DAY of the LORD which is the final Seal the 7th,

      Destined I can go on but I am not sure if you will even read the above?

    • Crazy times

      destinedtobetoldIneverknewyou… you ALSO can Huff and you can Puff a MILLION times and you will NOT close that OPEN DOOR before the BRIDE Rev 3:8,Your doctrine will see you left NAKED ,Miserable weeping and wailing and gnashing ur teeth when the Lord descends :arrow: by Himself to pick up His betrothed @kickoff @ the Midnight Hr and your CLEARLY LEFT BEHIND with your Nemesis , denoted by the (5) UNWISE virgins Matt 25 “as it is written”…..

      He’s coming for His BRIDE….FIRST…the Elect you mentioned are gathered by :arrow: ANGELS at the End of the Tribb the 144,000 seen before Him whom were roaming the Earth and He calls his :arrow: Angels to gather the ELECT from the 4 corners (as He had elected them 12,000 from each tribe) and they are then seen before him @the Mountof Olives when he lands His FEET….. the BRIDE is TAKEN 7yrs earlier BY :arrow: THE LORD HIMSELF… :idea:

      The Rapture, will be AMAZING and SPECTACULAR then the World will be caught in a snare.

      Rev 3:8 I have set before you an open door, which NO ONE is able to shut. :idea:


      • Truthseeker

        crazy Katherine just destroyed your rapture plan — NOT ME but Katherine and I agree with the scriptures she used, I have quoted at few to you but they all bounce off that thick skull of yours — maybe because it is a women telling you – you have been conned by Satan – you will believe it this time — nope not a chance.

        • Crazy times

          So seekerstruth, you and Katherine AGREE !! lol :lol: that she has destroyed “MY RAPTURE PLAN” … :lol:

          So Katherine singlehandedly destroyed the Precepts and Ordinances of God, WELL DONE!! :twisted: which HE gave us throughout Scripture in relation to RESCUING the righteous before Wrath.. :arrow: ALWAYS :idea:

          I believe Katherine is sincere BUT Sincerely WRONG according to “as it is written”I maybe mistaken, I’m sure she will clarify otherwise but I think, like YOU she stumbles on the Triunity of the Godhead/ rapture etc, therefore HOW CAN “GOD the HOLY SPIRIT” the “COMFORTER *WHO* GUILD US in ALL TRUTHS”: :arrow: Guild YOU when you ALL believe…. :arrow: HE does NOT EXIST ???? :idea: :idea: :oops:

          WE ALL COME AS WE ARE CALLED….. Katherine is entitled to her opinion as you are, as is anyone whom comments on BIN

          Keep in mind the Parable of The (10) VIRGINS.Matt 25…rapture/rescue @kick off. the Mid-nite Hr…aka PTR BEFORE…the great tribb… the :arrow: (5) WISE ESCAPED HEADS INTACT. :idea:

          YOU GUYS ARE :arrow: NOT CALLED TO THE PRECEPT OF RESCUE, given to us by GOD, and shown to us in Parables and examples….as in the days of Noah and Lot etc etc will be left behind….lets keep in mind that..


          “You could not possibly do such a thing: to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. … Will not the judge of the whole earth do what is right?”

          The Bottom line is YOUR BOTH CALLED to be :arrow: “Tribulation Saints” :idea: and I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you BOTH… NO RAPTURE for you, a different outcome AWAITS…(5) FOOLISH VIRGINS Matt 25

          Nothing is going to change the OUTCOME what you seal here on Earth is sealed in Heaven, what you TAKE AWAY will be taken AWAY FROM YOU … So when we disappear ” then your NAKEDNESS WILL APPEAR..” Revelation 3:18

          Judgement of the CHURCHES IS AT THE BEGINNING…NOT the MIDDLE ….NOT THE END, are you BOTH BLIND go re read the Book of Revelation…Note the Judgement on the Churches :arrow: FIRST

          1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if :arrow: it begins with us, :idea:

          God has picked a Day when it ALL changes and that Day BEGINS WITH US…His Bride. IF we are Accounted Worthy.

          The Rapture, will be AMAZING and SPECTACULAR then the World will be caught in a snare.

          Rev 3:8 I have set before you an open door, which :arrow: NO ONE is able to shut. :idea:

          Your Both fighting the Word of God, PTR is on Rock Solid Ground. :cool:


          • Katherine

            Dear Crazy Times, there’s s much to say re your comment. First, it is never our opinion or rather it is never left up to “interpretation”.

            2nd Peter 1:20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

            God Will Determined how much we will understand. If someone is not serious, He Will Know. If someone is seeking with all of their heart, mind and soul, He Will Know.

            If you cannot read and understand His Simple Words with the verses I posted, you are either quite deceived or are deliberately trying to throw others off the track.

            Remember, the evil one deceives so wonderfully. Remember equally that God allows deceptions; and delusions. Isaiah 66:1-6 and 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

            What we are talking about is the demonically false “pre-trib rapture”. That silly word, rapture, is never found in His Holy Word. When the time comes, we wil be translated into bodies of spirit but not before bad stuff happens.

            Think Stephen and all of the other saints and prophets. Think Christ Himself Who is God. They were all murdered for the Word of God. God’s two witnesses will be murdered.

            Are we actually thinking and saying that we are so much more special than these people?! Not to mention Christ and HE Set up the entire thing!

            Stephen, in Acts of the apostles chapters 6-7, was a brand new witness for Lord Jesus Christ. He passed from the old covenant ways, the law, to the New Covenant: THE I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, THE LIFE. John 14:6.

            Stephen, following the first in everything who, by example, was Lord Jesus Christ, was the first of the saints who loved not his life unto death. Stephen obeyed and followed the Lord’s Example.

            When his, (Stephen’s) witness to the Jewish people was finished, they dragged him away and stoned him to death. Acts 7.55-80. The word witness, when translated is martyr. (as well as the other usual defintion) So when we say we are a witness for Christ, we are saying that we lay our lives down for HIM from ABOVE.

            ACTS 22:20 REVELATION 2:13 AND REVELATION 17:6

            Your words: Keep in mind the Parable of The (10) VIRGINS.Matt 25…rapture/rescue @kick off. the Mid-nite Hr…aka PTR BEFORE…the great tribb… the (5) WISE ESCAPED HEADS INTACT.

            The 10 Virgins in Matthew 25 is actually Teaching us that once saved always saved is another demonic disaster of lies.

            Line 13 Tells all of us to “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

            That also refers to the fact that any one of us could pass on at any time, so please learn what God Truly Wants. A sober warning to all of us.

            There is so much proof. What else can I say?

          • Crazy times

            Dear Katherine It’s not what you say it’s what you didn’t say in your reply: I do take it then your NOT a believer in the Triunity ? (especially the COMFORTER WHO GUILDS US in ALL things.?)…A HE ….Yes or No ?

            (It’s really rhetorical as I see you have No understanding of the Parables either).

            btw…There’s nothing DEMONIC about His Promises… Whooha!!, :shock:

            Luke 21:36 :to :arrow: escape all these things :idea: that shall come to pass, and :arrow: to stand before the Son of man.:….. :arrow: ALL

            rev 3:10 I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.…v 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar :arrow: in the temple of My God, :idea: and he will never again leave it. :idea:

            It’s NOT escapism to stand on His promises, His Parables and the Clear Word of God.

            HE ALSO GAVE US CLEAR UNDERSTANDING :arrow: in Examples of Noah and Lot in context to His return… Noah ESCAPED, LOT ESCAPED, He didn’t give us

            The Examples of :arrow: as in the days of STEPHEN like what YOU SAY or as in the the days of Daniel …NO!! :twisted: ….Your changing context and meaning of His return to your POV, like many who “have a private interpretation”.”so please learn what God Truly Wants” IN CONTEXT !!! “or are deliberately trying to throw others off the track. ” :wink:

            You said “and all of the other saints and prophets”

            You mean like Enoch and Elijah taken UP and John living to and old age…..many have tribulation today but it’s NOT the Great tribulation aka Jacobs Trouble….YET, it’s very near though.

            You said…”The 10 Virgins in Matthew 25 is actually Teaching us that once saved always saved is another demonic disaster of lies.”

            NOPE… :twisted:

            13 Therefore I speak to them :arrow: in parables, :idea: because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear,……..

            :arrow: nor do they understand. :idea:

            PTR is on Rock Solid ground and you did NOT PROVE ANYTHING in regards to “NO Rapture” / Rescue of His Bride.. :idea: and you NEVER WILL

            Your Fighting AGAINST Gods Word,His Promises,His Parables and Precepts of God’s rescue of the Righteous, ALWAYS throughout Scripture ..AND LIKEWISE this time He set BEFORE HIS BRIDE :arrow:

            Rev 3:8 I have set before you an :arrow: open door, which :arrow: NO ONE is able to shut.

            The Rapture, will be AMAZING and SPECTACULAR then the World will be caught in a snare with the (5) foolish virgins. A sober warning to all of us. :idea:

          • Truthseeker


            Katherine used clear scriptures and logic — you never.

            you quote a scripture and add your personal interpretation like 1 Peter 4: 17 in your comment above.

            Just because you want what you believe to be true does not make it true.

            crazy there is no “ghost”, there is no rapture to heaven but until the Father changes your mind — your mind – filled with 5000 lb concrete — is locked up.

          • Katherine

            Dear Crazy times,

            I’m not trying to provoke you or frighten anyone. I’m giving Truth straight up…and we should all go forward seeking Christ 24/07.

            John 5:39-40 You search the Scriptures, for you think they give you Eternal Life. But the Scriptures point to Me! Yet you refuse to come to Me so that I can give you this Life Eternal.

            Luke 21:36 :to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.:….. ALL

            rev 3:10 I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.…v 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it.

            It looks as though you’re looking for physical safety. God IS ONLY and ALWAYS Concerned with [[[[[[[[spiritual safety ]]]]]]]] among those who call themselves after HIM.



            Mark 8:35 If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for MY SAKE, and for the Sake of the Good News, you will save it.

            Matthew 10:39 If you cling to your life, you will lose it, but if you give up your life for ME, you will find it.

            Matthew 16:25 If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for MY SAKE, you will save it.

            Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

            Luke 17:33 If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it.

            John 12:25 Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity.

            Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: Behold, I have set before thee an Open Door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My Word, and hast not Denied My Name.


            Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Christ, Lord Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

            Zephaniah 2:3 Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, who do His commands; seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the wrath of the LORD.

            If the meek and humble must do such, (“all you humble of the land, who do His commands” Zephaniah 2:3) and still must seek to be hidden on the day of God’s Wrath, how much more must the ones who exalt themselves, seek God and humble themselves.

            Your words CT: ‘You said “and all of the other saints and prophets”

            You mean like Enoch and Elijah taken UP and John living to and old age…..many have tribulation today but it’s NOT the Great tribulation aka Jacobs Trouble….YET, it’s very near though.’

            There will be a tiny remnant that may be hidden. But no one is going to get a free pass as the wolves that “teach”=lie “pre-trib rapture”. Though everyone, every single person MUST/WILL go through a persecuted, tribulated life if they will get to the First Resurection…Matthew 7:13, 1Peter 4:12-19, Luke 17:26-30 verse 17: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. see next verse 1Peter

            Again, is anyone today more special than those who lost their lives throughout the centuries? It is so absurd it’s defies simple everything that GOD HIMSELF Told us!

            1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

            For all people who believe Satan’s lies……for he is the father of it according to God Himself: (John 8:44)

            2 KINGS 6:17


            Keep in mind: ACTS 8: 39-40 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord [[[snatched Philip away.]]]

            The eunuch never saw him again but went on his way rejoicing.

            Meanwhile, [[[Philip found himself farther north at the town of Azotus.]]] He preached the Good News there and in every town along the way until he came to Caesarea.

            And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying,

            2 Chronicles 21:12-15 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus says the LORD God of your father David: Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah, but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and have made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot like the harlotry of the house of Ahab, and also have killed your brothers, those of your father’s household, who were better than yourself,

            behold, the LORD will strike your people with a serious affliction—your children, your wives, and all your possessions;

            and you will become very sick with a disease of your intestines, until your intestines come out by reason of the sickness, day by day.

            2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking, suddenly a chariot of fire ap+peared, drawn by horses of fire. It drove between the two men, separating them, and Elijah was carried by a whirlwind into heaven.

            Elisha saw it and cried out, “My father! My father! I see the chariots and charioteers of Israel!” And as they disappeared from sight, Elisha tore his clothes in distress.

            1Kings18:7-17 As Obadiah was walking along, he suddenly saw Elijah coming toward him. Obadiah recognized him at once and bowed low to the ground before him. “Is it really you, my lord Elijah?” he asked. During Jehoram’s reign, the Edomites revolted against Judah and crowned their own king. “Yes, it is,” Elijah replied. “Now go and tell your master, ‘Elijah is here.’” “Oh, sir,” Obadiah protested, “what harm have I done to you that you are sending me to my death at the hands of Ahab. For I swear by the LORD your God that the king has searched every nation and kingdom on earth from end to end to find you. And each time he was told, ‘Elijah isn’t here,’ King Ahab forced the king of that nation to swear to the truth of his claim.

            11 And now you say, ‘Go and tell your master, “Elijah is here.”’

            12 [But as soon as I leave you, the Spirit of the LORD will carry you away to who knows where.]

            When Ahab comes and cannot find you, he will kill me. Yet I have been a true servant of the LORD all my life But Elijah said, “I swear by the LORD Almighty, in whose presence I stand, that I will present myself to Ahab this very day.”

            2Kings 2:14-18 And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send. 17 And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not. 18 And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?

            The people that were there watching went off to find Elijah. Why would they go on a three day journey through the countryside to find a man who has not even on earth? These people KNEW that Elijah was “transported” from one earthly location unto another. They were not sure where he ended up but they knew he was returned to this earth.

            This is made clear in the scripture because years later we find Elijah still on earth having written to the King of Judah, Jehoram. 2Kings 3:1, I Kings 22:42, 2Kings 8:16

            2Chronicles 21:12-15 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, LORD God of David your father says, Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah, The word writing is rendered “miktab” [Strong's # 4385] meaning a letter, a thing written, a document, a writing.

            Now we look at Enoch’s “disappearance” in Genesis 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

            God Tells us that Enoch walked with God; simply means that Enoch was a man of God who lived according to God’s Ways; lived a Godly life and spoke God’s Truth well.

            Notice that it does not say God took Enoch to Heaven. “all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty-five years” = Enoch died eventually.

            For God Took him….simply means that Enoch died or he was transported somewhere else for whatever reason God had. It does not mean that God put him in Heaven to come back down to earth in the future for some other reason as many believe so of Elijah.

            As the Scripture says: “He was not [found by men]; for God took him [transported him elsewhere].” This coincides with scripture regarding Elijah’s and Phillip’s transportation by God to another location on earth, as well.

            They lived, Enoch and ELijah and Phillip, they died and they will be in the First Resurrection to receive their inheritance. Everyone has died. We know this from Hebrews 11:13.

            For all of us:

            Amos 8:11-12 Behold, the days come, says the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, [[[but of hearing the Words of the LORD]]]: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the Word of the LORD, and shall NOT find It.

            A reminder to the “pastors”, “priests” who are called father this or that “, “reverends”, rabbis”, “elders” ,”deacons”, “imams” “bishops”, “pope” etc. and to those who go to them instead of going to Christ, Lord Jesus; 24/07. John 5:39-40

            Matthew 7:21-23 “Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to Me as Lord,’ but they still won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

            [[[ The decisive issue is whether they obey My Father in Heaven. ]]]

            On judgment day many will tell Me, Lord, Lord, we prophesied in Your Name and cast out demons in Your Name and performed many miracles in Your Name .’ But I will reply, I never knew you.

            Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.

            They did not wait on the Lord for the Lord to give His Holy Instructions:

            WAIT ON THE LORD

            Job 35:14, Psa 25:5, Psa 25:21, Psalm 27:14, Psa 37:7, Psa 37:9, Psa 39:7, Psalm 37:34, Psa 59:9, Psa 62:5, Psa 69:3, Psa 69:6, Psa 104:27, Psa 106:13, Psa 123:2, Psa 130:5, Psa 145:15, Proverbs 20:22, Isa 8:17, Isa 30:18, Isa 40:31, Isa 42:4, Isa 49:23, Isa 51:5, Isa 60:9, Jer 14:22, Lam 3:25, Lam 3:25-26, Hosea 12:6, Mic 7:7, Hab 2:3, Zep 3:8, Luke 12:36, Acts 1:4, Rom 8:25, Gal 5:5, Phl 3:20, 1Th 1:10, Hbr 9:28

            Isaiah 30:18 Therefore the LORD will wait, that He may be gracious to you; And therefore He will be exalted, that He may have Mercy on you. For the LORD is a God of justice; Blessed are all those who wait for Him.

            Acts 13:1-4 Now in the ecclesia that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away. So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

            Notice here that the ecclesia waited on the Lord for their instructions and not on humans; the creation. This is so key to understanding that only by putting our entire being in God’s Hands will we be able to hear Him when He calls us to use us as He wishes. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 is how we train ourselves to hear HIM.

            Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow/TRIBULATED is the way, which leadeth unto Life, +and few there be that find it.+ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

            1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

            A reminder to the “pastors”, “priests” who are called father this or that “, “reverends”, rabbis”, “elders” ,”deacons”, “imams” “bishops”, “pope” etc. and those who go to them instead of Christ, Lord Jesus. John 5:39-40

            Please read Acts Chapter Eight….

            Matthew 17:5 While He was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a Voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; HEAR HIM!”HE MUST INCREASE; but i must decrease. JOHN 3:30

            Proverbs 23:23 Buy the Truth, and do not sell it. Also, wisdom and instruction and understanding.

            Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

            Revelation 3:14-22

            In particular: Revelation 3:18-19 I counsel you to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness will not appear; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

            We buy Truth from God not with money, but by laying down our lives day after day obeying I AM THAT I AM.

            This is prosperity in God’s Economy.

            By laying down our lives day after day obeying I AM THAT I AM, while He, Lord Jesus Christ, Will do His Work in us.

            Just keep it all simple as in the Pure Simplicity of Christ.

            And humble down.

          • Crazy times

            Dear Katherine, Sorry my late reply only just saw it,your effort is worth a reply I thought :smile:

            ……You stated that “But no one is going to get a free pass as the wolves that “teach”=lie “pre-trib rapture”…….

            Thank you for your time in replying and for your effort but I do NOT see how any of it dispels the PTR Rapture ? which is what this thread is about, a deception you keep mentioning but there is NO MEAT to refute His Promises,Nor His Precepts of Rescue ALWAYS BEFORE wrath (any wrath)…and the Clear examples :arrow: HE GAVE US :idea: in regards to His return “Noah and Lot”, :idea: In BOTH instances THEY ESCAPED….the Parable of (5) WISE virgins leaving WITH the :arrow: LORD HIMSELF ALSO @Midnight Hr,(PTR) to go to the Wedding Feast Matt 25 (WITHOUT HARM, NO TRIBULATION, AS THEIR HEADS ARE INTACT)…. :idea:

            :arrow: They CLEARLY ESCAPED ALSO :arrow: as HE PROMISED :idea:

            in your vernacular …”a free pass ”

            Luke 21:36 :to :arrow: escape ALL these things :idea: that shall come to pass, and :arrow: to stand before the Son of man.:….. :arrow: ALL

            I reiterate this as you wrote….”It looks as though you’re looking for physical safety.”…

            I’m Looking at the WORD….”as it is written” (not what i think will happen)

            And so far “as it is written” HAS PROVEN PTR IS BUILT ON THE ROCK…the WORD OF GOD….and NO ONE can SHUT THAT *OPEN DOOR*….NO-ONE Rev 3:8

            Much of the Scripture you cite is for the “Tribulation Saints” and NOT the Churches-BRIDE…eg the (5) WISE Were NOT BEHEADED as they went to the Wedding Feast as Matt 25 states

            You wrote …. “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Christ, Lord Jesus, and for the Word of God,”


            You stated…”every single person MUST/WILL go through a persecuted, tribulated life if they will get to the First Resurection”

            Yes it’s called life and many have already “ran the race” and “endured to the end” and died IN CHRIST..BUT it’s NOT JACOBS TROUBLE YET aka the Great tribb.

            (Enoch and Elijah) and what you imply about Elijah re appearing ? like Philip,Sorry, I don’t buy it, too much of a stretch for me because :twisted:

            2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking, suddenly a chariot of fire ap+peared, drawn by horses of fire. It drove between the two men, separating them, and Elijah was carried by a whirlwind :arrow: into heaven.

            Also :arrow: 1And it came about when :arrow: the LORD was about to take up Elijah by a whirlwind to heaven, 2 Kings 2:1 “as it is written”

            …………..******Elijah clearly taken to heaven*******

            and is seen again with JESUS at His transfiguration centuries later in Luke 9:31 Elijah appeared in GLORY …(Heavenly body)

            So that leaves us with Enoch…

            You also said… :arrow: “Notice that it does not say :arrow: God took Enoch to Heaven. :idea: “all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty-five years” = Enoch died eventually.”……. :twisted:

            Hebrews 11:5 Say’s… as it is written…

            5By faith Enoch was :arrow: taken up so that he did not see death. :idea: He could not be found :idea: , because :arrow: God had taken him away. :idea:

            Now that’s different from your ENOCH DIED STORY and Enoch was TAKEN UP BECAUSE GOD took him UP (OBVIOUSLY TO HEAVEN where ELSE ?) he DID NOT SEE DEATH and he was NOT FOUND ….”as it is written”

            So don’t imply he appeared somewhere else on earth like Philip as i don’t buy it!!!
            as that is NOT … :arrow: “as it is written”

            **** Clearly then Enoch was Taken UP (he did NOT SEE DEATH)to Heaven****

            You Said… They lived, Enoch and Elijah and Phillip, :arrow: they died :idea:

            :idea: ……Philip is the only ONE of three to taste death

            You said….” I’m giving Truth straight up”…. :shock:

            I don’t think so and neither does …”as it is written”

            being humble is one thing, twisting Scripture is another.

  • Enki

    The truth will come to those who seek it as they search for treasure. Knowledge is power and there is no truth in religion. The apostle Paul represents Satan and should not be in the Bible. The Torah is the law of humanity and according to it, the bulk of humanity is not supposed to be here. The time of great sorrow is on Your doorstep, for Humanity has defied God’s laws in every way. In saying that, i also have to say that the awaited miracle has already transpired. He is the one who wrote the book You were promised in Revelation 10, Your answers lie within it. You can take a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink.

    • Truthseeker


      wow are you deceived: the Torah is the law of humanity and great sorrow is on our doorstep because we have defied “God law”?? where did that one come from??

      the Torah i.e. THE LAW was spoken by the mouth of God to Moses and if that Law is mans law what Law of God has man broken?

  • Katherine

    True, all True.

    In particular, John 17 verse 15…….as Christ, Lord Jesus is Talking/Praying to our Father: “I’m not asking you to take them out of the world, but to keep them safe from the evil one.”

    Daniel 7:21-22, Daniel 8:24, Matthew 24 Rev 6: 9-17, Revelation 9: 2-3, Rev 12:11-12, 17, Rev 13: 7-10. These, among others, prove NO “pre-trib rapture”.

    Daniel 7:21-22 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days Came, and a Judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the Kingdom.”

    Daniel 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

    Daniel 8:24-25 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; He shall destroy fearfully, And shall prosper and thrive; He shall destroy the mighty, and [also] the holy people. “Through his cunning He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; And he shall exalt [himself] in his heart. He shall destroy many in [their] prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; But he shall be broken without [human] means.

    Revelation 6:9-17 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, Holy and True, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled. And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. (12-13)=THE GREAT TRIBULATION: SATAN’S WRATH (THROUGH A MAN) ON GOD’S PEOPLE AND THE WORLD-MATTHEW 24)

    Revelation 9: 2-3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

    Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; (MARTYRDOM) and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye Heavens, and ye that dwell in Them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.

    Revelation 13:7-8 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not Written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    In 1Corinthians 15:52-55 Paul explains our corruptible bodies must put on incorruption, and that happens at the 7th Trumphet, not at the beginning of the Tribulation period.

  • Crazy times

    Deathseeker your Spock like logic is as ALWAYS failing you, like most apostates on bin it’s :arrow: Lost in translation

    truthtrasher :arrow: God gave US CLEAR SCRIPTURE and :arrow: EXAMPLES…who to believe ?

    Repent and stop trashing the Word of God seeker remove that concrete millstone around your neck “the ministry of DEATH wrote on stone”

    The catching away of Gods Bride will be Amazing and Spectacular , No one can SHUT that OPEN DOOR Rev 3:8

    • Truthseeker

      crazy I was pointing to Katherine’s logic and Katherine’s scriptures not mine —

      crazy all you can do is quote scriptures out of context and then twist until they match the outcome you seek — you have never done otherwise and why is that? — because you do not know the WORD.

      In Matthew 25 half the 10 virgins never were converted, they never received the Father’s Spirit and how can that be true? If the 5 had at one time God’s Spirit Jesus could not make the statement “I never knew you’.

      Half of those fellow-shipping with the Saints of God as the time of end begins were never called, never converted and I am absolutely certain those waiting for a rapture are not even part of the 5 that are not wise, that Christ never knew.

      • Crazy times

        Veiledseeker You and Katherine Agree you said ,so you share the same logic, :arrow: logical!!!

        Leave the understanding of the parables for those who have the” Spirit of His Son in their hearts” ,you have another spirit that of your father in LAW and it’s :twisted:

        • Crazy times

          Veiledseeker Trumpets NEXT before Atonement then Tabernacle the feasts appointments CANNOT be moved around

          Trumpets / Rapture “fullness of the gentiles called in”

          Atonement / Jacobs Trouble

          Tabernacle/ God living with man
          NEXT FEAST IS …..Even you should get it :arrow: TRUMPETS

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