Does God Pick and Choose?
By Grant Phillips
This subject is somewhat controversial as many of you well know. I have spent many years searching the Scriptures and reading different viewpoints on the issue; Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Both have legitimate arguments. Both have born again, God fearing brothers and sisters in their camp. I side with neither and accept some of both, because they both have good points and not so good points. Let me be clear. I am not a Calvinist. I am not an Arminian. I am a born again Bible believing Christian.
Allow me to provide, in brief, each view.
ARMINIANISM – Jacobus Arminius 1560- 1609
- Human Free Will – Man can choose, on his own, to accept or deny the Gospel.
- Conditional Election – By God’s foreknowledge, He looked into the future and elected those who He knew would respond to the Gospel.
- Universal Atonement – Jesus paid the sin of everyone, not just the elect.
- Resistible Grace – Salvation can be rejected by resisting God’s grace.
- Fall From Grace – A true believer can fall from grace and lose his/her salvation.
CALVINISM – John Calvin 1509 – 1564
- Total Depravity – Man is totally depraved, and therefore lacks the capacity to respond to the Gospel message apart from God’s intervention.
- Unconditional Election – God elects, not by any merit of the individual, but by His own will. God does not look into the future to make this decision, and He elects some and not others.
- Limited Atonement – Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, but He only bore the sins of the elect.
- Irresistible Grace – The individual cannot resist the call of God if he/she has been elected. All are called, but only the elect are drawn to God internally.
- Perseverance of the saints – A true believer cannot lose his/her salvation. This is known as Once Saved Always Saved or OSAS.
Repeating myself, this is not a complete commentary on each view, only a brief look. Also, with each view, I find I agree completely on some points, partially on some points, and not at all on some points. I have found in my study of these two views, that a sound argument can be made, for and against, on several of these points, but not all of them.
I do believe that God is God, and as God He has the right to advance His will and glorify Himself in any way He pleases. Read carefully Romans chapter nine. I also believe He wants all to be saved because He said as much.
“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” (1 Timothy 2:3-4 NIV)
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9 NIV)
I personally do not believe we will know the whole story on this debatable issue until we are in Heaven with the only One who is actually qualified to provide the answers.
The reason people leave this world without Christ and are doomed to an eternity in hell is actually due to their hard hearts, and those hearts are made hard by sin.
“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 NIV)
“But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2 NIV)
“These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.” (Matthew 15:8 NIV)
“But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.” (Romans 2:5 NIV)
“But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.” (Hebrews 3:13 NIV)
Let me give you the worse scenario. Let’s assume that God does pick and choose who is to be saved (for example). At this point you will either be in a state of panic, thinking you have not been chosen, or perhaps you won’t give a hoot because you think it’s all nonsense anyway. The point is if you want to be saved, God will make sure you get the message about His Son, so you can believe in Him and be saved.
Satan is our enemy, and his weapon is ‘sin.’ If we allow sin to get a stronger and stronger hold of our lives (as unbelievers) our hearts will grow harder and harder about the message of Jesus as Savior. In this condition, we will reject Christ, not because He doesn’t want us to be saved, but because we have allowed ourselves to grow cold to the Truth. Those who reject Christ only have themselves to blame, and God will point that out at the White Throne judgment.
Think about the backgrounds of those who have come to Christ and been saved. People have come from all walks of life and all kinds of sinful situations. Good people have been saved along with fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers and extortioners.
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you (emphasis mine): but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
It doesn’t matter what you have allowed yourself to become because of sin. Jesus will save you if you truly believe in Him. He will clean you up. What matters is have you allowed your heart to get so hard you have no interest in knowing Jesus? That is the bottom line.
That brings us back to “good people” as noted above. Are any of us really “good?” Read Psalm 14:1, 3; 53:1, 3; Jeremiah 4:22 and Romans 3:12. God doesn’t think so. Then we’re right back to allowing sin to harden any heart against God, thereby causing us to refuse God’s gift of salvation He so freely offers by His grace. Those who die “lost” do so because they choose to.
Maybe the best thing we Christians could do in this circumstance is just spread the word about Jesus, as He has told us to (Matthew 28:19-20), and let Him worry about the rest. Is it possible some of us spend too much time debating things that belong to God, and not enough time in just doing what He told us to do?
Now I know just as sure as I’m sitting here typing this article that some dear soul is going to email me after reading this and attempt to help me see the light (their view). Please don’t bother. Just read the previous paragraph again. I’ve spent too many years praying and studying about this and I’ve read from the best. As far as I’m concerned, this is a “God” issue.
There is much we’ll never understand completely until we are with our Lord in Heaven. Let’s just leave it at that.
Grant Phillips
Email: [email protected]
Pre-Rapture Commentary: http://grant-phillips.blogspot.com
Rapture Ready: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/phillips/phillips.html
http://www.raptureready.com/2017/05/30/does-god-pick-and-choose/
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
you don’t know Euthryphro Dilemma
“Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?”
Man, Cutting to the chase … Love alter’s all.
It isn’t even an answer. So when God sends a person to hell, it is a Crime of passion? Does God like to use Domestic abuse in a relationship? what does that mean? ‘Love alters all’
let me make it simple:
“is God good because he has those properties, or are those properties good because God has them?”
So when God and Jesus tells in the bible that slavery is ok, Is it ok because they said it or is it morally ok even when it isn’t God/Jesus proclaiming it.
w
Man…it is the only answer. What is in a heart that makes it want to harm another living soul? That makes it even think it has a right too? This 3D body we move in now, is only on loan for a brief moment in our eternal life. (Dust to dust). We all end here at some point. How we move through this stepping stone in our journey is the point. This place… our place here is temporary, but that heart we carry with us is when we leave is what we will operate on and function with eternally.
Bigger picture … that love that is you … makes all the difference in all realms. It is all you will have to offer …
If the heart is holding loving, caring and considerate merit as it engages with other hearts, god’s authority will embrace your endeavors. So he picks the pure of heart in this sense. Ultimately you choose what it is you fill your heart with. Greed, generosity, truth, lies, hate, love, animosity, jealousy, rumor’s, gossip, ego, integrity, morals, etc. etc. Only you and god know what’s in your heart. Choose well.
boo
“If the heart is holding loving, caring and considerate merit as it engages with other hearts, god’s authority will embrace your endeavors —– So he picks the pure of heart in this sense.” ??????????
Boo that is not what the WORD of God says.
Luke 5
32 “I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Christ is not searching for the pure in heart, Christ is calling wicked sinners to repentance,
Was not Christ vilified for eating with prostitutes, tax collectors etc?
And if you will study you will find the time of our calling was set before creation begin so none can stand before God and claim “they” were called because “they” were full of love and had a pure heart, what ever that means.
If you will search you will also find Christ made the statement ” none are good — no not one”
The first thing one must do is repent — repent of transgressing the Holy Law of God because all have transgressed and sinned against GOD.
Truthseeker…the caveat here is “repentant sinners”. A repentant sinner can in one moment hold a pure heart, but should that sinner err and miss the mark again, he will fall from favor. It’s not a game of chess moves. It’s learning through repentance how to clear those sinning tenancy’s so the heart does not operate upon them again.
So to help in that endeavor…you repent. You say I will no longer gossip. But if you do gossip, you must repent again, until one day you find, it’s no longer a part of your nature. You don’t gossip anymore.
This has little to do with man being a sinner, it has everything to do with man learning to purify the heart by not bathing it in sin. Repentance clears the heart so man can go forth and sin no more. God knows it’s not easy and man carry’s much baggage. Ergo God offer’s repentance to assist man in unloading the baggage. But God will not pick a sinner who has not repented.
God also knew them not.
boo
God the Father ONLY calls sinners to Christ. Unless the Father draws a person to Christ they can NOT come.
and it is God the Father and Christ that DO the conversion of our nature and it is the Father Spirit working in us that brings forth that fruit of the Spirit. We must have a willing spirit and even that is a gift from GOD, without God our situation is hopeless.
Jeremiah 31: 33 states God is going to put HIS TORAH in to our minds and natures and does so by the circumcision without hands.
Boo explain to us how “we” can change ourselves into what God wants us to be. How do you purify your own heart? and what does the word “heart” refer to?
We are the clay and God is the master potter and God only creates master pieces, one of a kind, not one like another master pieces.
Truth… really, then why does he ask us to repent? And yes he is there supporting us throughout the process, else we would have little chance at making it stick.
I see many people going through the motions … and saying all the right things, but I fear they are missing the mark. Love helps us see clearly through our own self deceptions.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
boo we must be Willing” that is all we can do and even that willingness must come from our Father.
with out God giving us every breath of air we breath we die and cease to exist, we return to dust.
One must first understand what sin IS and then that it is God we sin against.
With that understanding, God willing, we will come to our Father and want to quit sinning, many are called FEW chosen – the many I would guess will not see sin as all that bad.
Again I ask exactly how do YOU remove sin from your life, I have been in the salvation process for 49 years and I can resist temptation better today then ever BUT I can not stop my mind.
The human mind is deceitful and desperately wicked and if you believe you can control your mind yourself — you will be the first.
Boo most of so called Christianity are not converted sons of God.
Read Matthew 25: 1 -10 even at the start of the time of the end only 50% of God’s Church has the Father’s Spirit in them – If they had the spirit Christ could not say to them “I never knew you”.
There is a sharp contrast between three groups :
https://www.scribd.com/doc/306868420/Most-True-Christians-Go-to-Hell
http://www.globethics.net/gtl/10920800 Most true Christians go to hell
https://www.academia.edu/25217564/Most_True_Christains_Go_to_Hell
(1) “PREDESTINED DAMNED” who were NEVER written in the book of life ………..Rev 17:8 WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, ……EPH 1: 4. According as he hath CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD (a sharp contrast between those whose names were in the book of life from before the foundation of the world and those who were never written in that book of life )
(2) “MANY CALLED”= ONLY and ALL SAINTS (those who come to Christ) these are those who were written in the book of life (only these are “the called”) … Philippians 4:3…WHOSE NAMES ARE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE………Rev 21:27;
These are the MANY that are CALLED /ELECT (Only saints are Called and elect; Rom 1:6-7 et al) This is THE CHRUCH and ONLY these can have their names blotted out of the book of life ….….Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and CHURCH of the firstborn … WHICH ………are WRITTEN in heaven,
(3) “FEW CHOOSEN” =Those saints who were in group #2 who are now physically dead. They did not get blotted out of the book of life. the were the FEW that were chosen faithfull…….Rev 3:5. ……; and I will not BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, (Ps 69: 28. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous…… 36. The seed also of his servants shall inherit it: and they that love his name shall dwell therein.) ….These are the FEW that are CHOSEN……..
Both “FREE WILL” and “SOVEREIGN GRACE” (reformed theology) Folks make the SAME error..They conceptualize two groups only (the saved and the lost) then then argue over the reasons why everyone is in one of those two groups…….BUT the scriptures describe three groups of people and it makes all the difference in the world because two groups only will always create contradictions…
SOME (NOT ALL) OTHER KEY POINTS MADE ARE:
FIRST: Christ did NOT die for everyone., but rather ONLY for HIS PEOPLE/ THE ELECT/ “THE CALLED and is the whole point and reason for:
Limited atonement is true and the whole point to:
2Peter 2:20. THE LATTER END IS WORSE WITH THEM THAN THE BEGINNING. …
Heb 10:26. .: 29. OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HATH TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, and hath COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT, WHEREWITH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, AN UNHOLY THING, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
………….. if Christ blood was shed for all men living on planet earth even those who would never came to Christ in the first place, they too would have trodden under foot the son of God and counted that blood of his covenant (which was shed for them also presumably) an unholy thing. But the fact is there is a difference between those who were purchased with that blood and latter reject it and those who were never purchased with that blood. They are worse off because they did something the damned had not done which is to treat the blood that bought them with spite…This blood is not for everyone it is only for those that are called and everyone is not called. This is also why they can and most are blotted OUT of the book of Life (The names are written in it before the foundation of the world) If everyone living on planet earth had been purchased with the blood of Christ or if Christ had died for everyone on planet earth then there would be no difference in the blood of Christ for the saint who reprobates and the sinner who never comes to Christ because both would have treated the blood of Christ spitefully.
MARK 14:24. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for MANY. ( not everyone; also note: “MANY are called few are choosen”)
God does not call everyone and some people were NEVER “called” and NEVER written in the book of life….only those who God “CALLED”/the elect can be blotted out of the book of life….
.
-God does NOT love everyone scripture point blank mentions people God hates not just the sin he hated them before they ever did any good or evil; many were created for damnation
-Jesus did NOT die for every person who has or will ever live and those teaching the nonsense that he did have absolutely no business teaching or preaching
-There is the world that “God so loved” and there is the world that God hates!…. It not the roman world or the world of the Maya but the WORLD spoken of in the law and prophets …..oh yea That world!?!
- The fact that some were destined for damnation and some were selected to be saved is what the doctrine of ELECTION IS!?! God could have done things differently (you could have been born at a different time and place and or the method could have been different; Unless of course you think you are so inherently good that you would be a follower of Christ no matter what your circumstances could possibly have been; that would be hubris of the greatest magnitude. Mat 11:21 et al) and gotten a completely different set of “saved folks” then the set he has Chosen so When God selected how he was going to do things and knowing the outcome before hand (by name who would be saved and who would be damned) then HE not you decided who would and would not be saved and who would just be damned period without any hope.
Any and all arguments that pretend a dichotomy between the method of salvation or the way of salvation verses Who would and would not be saved (by name) are non-sequiturs. Both are mutual imperatives they are not mutually exclusive. The fact that some were destined for damnation and some were selected to be saved is what the doctrine of ELECTION IS!?! God could have done things differently (you could have been born at a different time and place and or the method could have been different; Unless of course you think you are so inherently good that you would be a follower of Christ no matter what your circumstances could possibly have been; that would be hubris of the greatest magnitude. Mat 11:21 et al) and gotten a completely different set of “saved folks” then the set he has Chosen so When God selected how he was going to do things and knowing the outcome before hand (by name who would be saved and who would be damned) then HE not you decided who would and would not be saved and who would just be damned period without any hope. Grasping this fully requires a certain kind of humility that goes well beyond just the fact your “really sweet old man/women who would not hurt a flee”.
………………………YOU CANNOT DETERMINE WITHOUT FOREKNOWING and likewise YOU CANNOT FOREKNOW ALL POSSIBILITIES AND CHOOSE ONE PATH WITHOUT HAVING DETERMINED ALL. They are not mutually exclusive logically they cannot be. One is subordinate to the other and this is the point to the INDIVIDUALS NOT GROUPS addressed and used as examples here in:
Rom 9: 11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God ACCORDING TO ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) …… 13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated……15. For he saith to Moses, I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY, and I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I WILL HAVE COMPASSION. 16. So then it is NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, NOR OF HIM THAT RUNNETH, …. 17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.. 18. THEREFORE HATH HE MERCY ON WHOM HE WILL HAVE MERCY, AND WHOM HE WILL HE HARDENETH. 19. Thou wilt say then unto me, WHY DOTH HE YET FIND FAULT? FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL? 20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering THE VESSELS OF WRATH FITTED TO DESTRUCTION……..
The word fitted to destruction here does not mean fit or deserving of destruction NO it means CREATED FOR DESTRUCTION! Prov 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, EVEN THE WICKED FOR THE DAY OF EVIL.………………Job 21:30. That THE WICKED IS RESERVED TO THE DAY OF DESTRUCTION? they shall be brought forth to THE DAY OF WRATH.
The fact that some were destined for damnation and some were selected to be saved is what the doctrine of ELECTION IS!?! God could have done things differently …………..(you could have been born at a different time and place and or the method could have been different; Unless of course you think you are so inherently good that you would be a follower of Christ no matter what your circumstances could possibly have been; that would be foolish hubris of the greatest magnitude. Mat 11:21 God decided when those people were born and or when Christ would manifest himself to others not the people of Sodom…if only they had been born latter or Christ earlier but alas they were lost)
…………….God could have done things differently and gotten a completely different individual named “saved folks” then the individuals he has Chosen to save. So When God selected how he was going to do things and knowing the outcome before hand ……….(by individual name who would be saved and who would be damned but otherwise could have been saved) ………then God not man decided and choose who would and would not be saved (BY INDIVIDUAL NAME) and who would just be damned period without any hope that otherwise could have been saved if only the situation had been a little different. Grasping this fully requires a certain kind of humility that goes well beyond just the fact your “really sweet old man/women who would not hurt a flee”.
Those that deny individual predestination should expect to find themselves on the “HELL FIRE” end of that predestination program and plan that God is working even now……
Also at that same site you can get updated alternate versions of the parallel passages charts also
Uhoo…..Time to wake up everyone those are only fairy-tales about a Jesus who loves everyone such that anyone can be saved even ignoring the fact that Jesus taught that most Christians who come to him will be rejected in the end and blotted out of the book of life ….so better not get to comfortable in your “Christian walk” and “your church life”
There is a contrast between the world that God so loved and there is the World that God HATES……It not the roman world or the world of the Maya but the WORLD spoken of in the law and prophets …..oh yea That world!?!
Truthseeker…Your points are well taken and understood. My understanding goes to a deeper sense of what it means to be repentant and how that unfolds, effects and changes the heart to one that goes forth and sins no more.
This is not easily done. It takes humility and a willingness to suffer any arrow thrown it’s way. Humble the ego and mind. Overpower it with a love… that knows … nothing of this earth and on this plane can throw it off course unless you give it that power. Then don’t give way.
The heart jumps at the embrace of a conscious that even …knows… when it has sinned. It embraces the conscious with an overwhelming sense of peace when it repents and releases the sin after such a revelation.
For me it’s about the hereafter and where I’m capable of going from there, This life is an opportunity to challenge myself. I compete with no man. I answer to no man. But I can love him and carry him joyfully and with a purpose that transcends the boundary’s I find myself in now. At this moment in time. By the grace of god go I and only god knows where I go next.
boo you are still talking about YOU working out salvation, you changing yourself — good luck.
have you considered what is meant by this statement Jesus made?
3 “And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven”
Boo how are we converted, who does the converting and what is being converted?
Christ stated clearly If you are not converted you will not be in God’s Family.
Jeremiah 31: 33 shows us what is being converted, our carnal human natures are to be converted over to the HOLY Divine Righteous Nature of God the Father.
The word “law” in verse 33 is the Hebrew word Torah and the Torah reveals to man the Divine Nature of GOD.
Ha… I think this speaks more about fear God rather then loving him otherwise you go to hell…
That’s a little bit in contradiction with the good Samaritan fable. But you know, whatever.
nanar
incomplete knowledge, misunderstandings, and outright lies assure pain and suffering here on earth.
THUS You are going to need more then luck, you have all 3
knowledge : it will always be incomplete. None of us can know all.
Misunderstanding : we can know and not understand. And there will always be misunderstanding due to different perceptions and imperfect means of communication.
Outright lies : the worst is not lying to others, it’s our capacity to lie to ourselves (and believing it). that will never change. It’s the original sin.
As I said to Dietrich, no one can know god, because this word holds all that we cannot define.
So anyone speaking in the name of god, well, they are liars.
So, that’s cute, but the “love god or go to hell” is entirely based on the fear of the unknown. that’s typical human starting from the first commandment of Mose’s law : you shall fear god.
Trust me, God does not need your fear, your love or even your hate, god made you free to chose (and since you are free to chose, and that we cannot be omniscient, you can’t know/understand what god wants.
As for the consequences of our attitude causing pain and suffering because of our stupidity, yup, couldn’t agree more.
nanar
Either Christ lied or those the Father calls to Christ “shall know the Truth”
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So according to you Jesus Christ LIES! and According to me you do not know God or HIS SON.
Psalm 116:11 in my alarm I said, “Everyone is a liar.”
… I said in my alarm, “All men are liars.”
Jesus said he was the son of Man and talked about his father in heaven.
He never said that it was only him. You are also.
Nuance.
furthermore, Jesus was defined as son of god and god made man in the Nicea concile. Look it up.
It took 325 years to says “he is god and the son of god”
nanar you are a flesh and blood human why would or should I or are any one listen to your opinion?
I have stated over an over do not believe me go the Word and prove it for yourself
You will never bother to do so –
have a nice day
Dear Truth seeker,
That’s the beauty of internet, I am free to write, you are free to ignore
And of course, you have no obligation to agree, disagree of even care, it’s really just for the sake of conversation and sharing what I think are some interesting points of reflection.
To be honest, I have nothing against most esoteric or exoteric beliefs.
For me, people a free to believe whatever they want as long as they don’t enforce their dogma on me.
As for the bible, I’ve read it many times and different versions. Including Apocrypha documents and even the Juda’s gospel (which, even if not recognized, is very interesting). I don’t know it by heart, by I know enough to realize this god is man made.
I realize how aggravating this type of discussion can be for you since I was in your place a long time ago. But doubt is a good thing, even Jesus doubted on the cross :p
I wish you also a nice day and a wonderful week-end
nanar
We are not on the same page and unless you observed the Sabbath and God’s Holy Feasts and were willing to live by every WORD of God you have not been where I am.
billions read the bible and come to 1,000,000 confusing ways as the Bible way never written to be understood by the carnal mind of men.
john rolls
this article you posted by Grant Phillips is another example of a completely confused “minister” .
“There is much we’ll never understand completely until we are with our Lord in Heaven. Let’s just leave it at that.”
Has grant not read the promised Christ gave “you SHALL know the TRUTH and the TRUTH SHALL make you free”?
So grant’s statement above is completely false.
Also grant is a rapture preacher preaching the lie ” we are going to heaven”, john please produce the scriptures stating the reward of the saved is heaven. Give us a clear statement stating clearly the saints are going to be living in heaven.
YOU CAN NOT DO SO because it ain’t in the WORD of GOD.
Christ states the Saints will rule with HIM on earth.
In both the Old and the New Testament the promise is — “the meek shall inherit the earth”
John and Grant how do you mesh what you two teach and believe with just Revelation 20: 1 – 6?
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
After the 1000 year rule of Jesus Christ here on earth is Satan going to be loosed in Heaven?? Or here on earth ?? If everyone is in heaven then how does Satan deceive the nations?
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This scripture is clear: those “saved” , those in the first resurrection that are changed from corruptible flesh to incorruptible spirit will rule from thrones with Christ for 1000 years ( verse 5 refers to this as the “first resurrection”)
and in Revelation 5 it tells us where they shall reign 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign — on the earth.’
John and Grant how much clearer do you need it ??
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Guys if the rest of the dead do not live again UNTIL the 1000 years are finished — do you not see this is referring to all those billions, maybe 100 billion, that never had their one chance for salvation – those heathen i.e gentiles that are the majority of mankind; those kids that died at one or two or at birth or by war etc don’t THEY get a shot at salvation??
Fellows this is speaking of the 2nd resurrection a resurrection to judgment, a time of judging — judged by the TORAH as was Christ and all the Saints of GOD.
Three is God’s number showing completion thus three resurrection.
One to eternal life i.e. the First resurrection
The second to judgment – giving all those who never had their one opportunity to live as flesh and blood and over come their human natures as did all those saints in that first resurrection.
The third is to condemnation i.e. the lake of fire where the unrepentant are burned to ashes and cease to exist for all eternity.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand year
Those in the first resurrection will be immortal and will never face the 2nd death i.e. the lake of fire as will those in the 2nd resurrection if they do not repent of transgressing the HOLY LAW of GOD.
OK please show how a rapture to heaven Fits with Revelation 20 — impossible — because going to heaven and a rapture are lies.
I know neither of you will respond — how can you? what ever scripture you attempt to use are not clear as are the above.
but in any event Please do not bring up “Mansions”, if you believe immortal spirits live in structures then your beliefs are founded on jello.
Christ is preparing positions of authority, positions as kings, priest and Lords sitting on thrones in the government of God so states the WORD of GOD.
Have you not read where Christ said the 12 Apostles will each rule over one of the 12 tribes and David will rule over the House of Israel?
I would love to read a response to the above — but I will not hold my breath waiting
John Rolls and Grant Phillips
A paper entitled “After the death of Jesus was the Torah removed from the Ark of the Covenant and thus no longer HOLY to GOD?” was just posted on BIN I would love to read your comments.
You did know Moses put the Torah in the Ark right?