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Karen Swallow Prior on John Piper's Advice to Women in Troubled Marriages

Monday, October 15, 2018 18:59

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OK. I’m not much on Twitter. I’ve never liked it. I don’t think I ever will.

Moreover, it can get very vicious, even more vicious than Facebook.

Yet it appears it’s definitively made its mark for usefulness even among Christians, so I logged on to my old account this AM and posted a link to the piece I put up on my blog entitled, “How do Patterson Critics View John Piper on Spousal Abuse?,” a piece asking some of the leaders among Southern Baptists who are bent on seeing Paige Patterson fired as President of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary how they view John Piper’s advice to women in troubled marriages and what might we do about it.

Specifically, I named @KSPrior (Liberty University professor, Karen Swallow Prior), @edstetzer (Professor at TEDS, Christianity Today blogger, and former President of Lifeway Research, Ed Stetzer) and @JonathanMerritt (writer for RNS & The Atlantic and former Teaching-Pastor at his dad’s church before apparently being forced to resign because his reported partner “outed” his alleged homosexuality. see here and here). Why these three? Simple. They seem to be among the key critics promoting the firing of Paige Patterson.

I didn’t expect either of the three to respond, but one of them did–Karen Swallow Prior.¹ Nor did I expect the brief exchange to get testy so quickly. Everything I know about Dr. Prior indicated she seems like a very amenable person not to mention her award-winning honors as a scholar and professor. Here’s the gist of how the Twitter exchange went down.²

Peter: How do @KSPrior, @edstetzer, and @JonathanMerritt view John Piper on spousal abuse?

Karen Swallow Prior (KSP): Obviously I approve of every single thing and every single action of every single person in every single world and all parallel universes.

Peter: Oops. My bad. I wasn’t inquiring for a comment on the theory of everything. Just a response to @JohnPiper on spousal abuse to women in troubled marriages.

KSP: Why of all the things in the universe are you asking me about this? Of course smacking a woman is abuse. Why would anyone think I’d think otherwise? These Childish trolling games are unbecoming of Christians.

Peter: Childish trolling games? Are you kidding me? All I asked was a question on how you viewed Piper’s advice to women in troubled marriages, a cause you’re obviously concerned about. And that’s childish trolling games?

Peter: So what do we do with Piper? Do we condemn him? Call for his resignation? Ban him from SBC circles? What?

KSP: The SBC is my denomination. I have a stake in its leadership. Whatever denomination Piper is it’s not mine.

Peter: Excuse me, but Piper is one of the most influential leaders in the SBC. His friendship runs deep with Al Mohler, Mark Dever, et al. And therefore Piper’s view on spousal abuse doesn’t alarm you?

KSP: Such bullying is unbecoming of a man let alone a Christian. Be well.

Peter: So I’m a bully because I asked an honest question of a seminary professor who assisted in writing and promoting a letter to the trustees of another seminary calling on them to fire the president? Mercy me.

Imagine it. Dr. Prior has boldly and publicly called for the firing of a sitting president in Southern Baptists’ second oldest seminary for what she judges is an irreconcilable moral breach but when asked about what she thought ought to be done to another high-profile Baptist who not only adheres to very similar counselling advice to women in troubled marriages, but also arguably possesses more influence in the SBC than Paige Patterson presently does, she dodges the question and turns to calling me names like “troll” and “bully.”

I ask.

Is this the level of engagement we’re to accept from social-media critics when we ask them honest questions about the moral charges they publicly launch against Southern Baptist leaders?

Is it now “bullying” if we question a scholar who happens to be a woman about her position on a particular issue?

Are Southern Baptist trustees really going to seriously entertain the emboldened moral charges against Paige Patterson while the very same critics either dodge the question or turn their morally condemnatory head while John Piper is completely ignored for offering arguably worse counsel than critics complain about Patterson?

Doesn’t the stark hypocrisy of the critics who complain about Patterson but remain deafeningly silent about Piper clearly reveal to us that this entire fiasco has been staged? This issue is not about principle but about Patterson. He’s the target. If moral principle were at stake, the critics would be every much as appalled by Piper’s words as Patterson’s. In fact, if moral principle and the dishonoring of women were the real motivation behind the media campaign launched by Jonathan Merritt, Ed Stetzer, and Karen Swallow Prior, they would care less whether Protestant or Catholic, Evangelical or Liberal, Calvinist or Arminian, Atheist or Buddhist, American or European breached the moral principle of dishonoring of women. And they would be just and right in doing so.

Why? Because if moral principle is breached, and women are exploited and dishonored, it doesn’t make any difference who does it. It deserves squarely to be condemned. Thus, to dodge the moral question by indicating that because John Piper belongs to another denomination that he does not deserve the same judgment for allegedly the same moral breach remains ethically suspect, intellectually empty, biblically vacuous, and unfortunately raises questions as to the real motive behind this public display of so-called moral outrage.³

Thus, it bears repeating:

The outrage expressed concerning the president of Southwestern seminary seems to be not so much about moral principle as it is about the man Patterson.

¹Picture Source

²Yes, I’ve got screenshots of the conversation in case someone wants the exact wording in the exchange or just search on Twitter for it.

³One might argue something along the lines of Mike Leake, contributor at SBC Voices. “So I’m confused at the point… Would we be wrong for calling out Patterson AND Piper? Point out an inconsistency…okay. But I still don’t see how that helps your argument if you intend to say Patterson did nothing wrong. So here I’ll say it…Patterson and Piper were both unwise in their counsel. As far as Piper, I disagree with his statements in the original video. I don’t think it was good and wise counsel. I appreciate more what he says here. But here are a few big differences. 1. Piper isn’t the head of an SBC seminary. 2. Piper seems to actually hold different views now and has sought to clarify. The biggest issue for me personally is the way Patterson has doubled down. Patterson’s statements in 2000 aren’t the only issue. There is much more going on here. 3. Piper didn’t say that a 16 year old girl is “nice” nor has he shared questionable illustrations which objectify women or a teenage girl. Nonetheless, I’m not sure how this is anything more than a red herring. Do you have issues with what Dr. Patterson said or not? That is what we are talking about (link).

In response, first, the moral inconsistency of Patterson’s critics stands whether or not one might point out an inconsistency of another. Thus, to suggest one doesn’t “see how that helps your argument if you intend to say Patterson did nothing wrong” remains irrelevant to the point being made about the inconsistency of Patterson’s critics, and only serves as smoke in one’s face.

Second, Leake asks an odd question “Would we be wrong for calling out Patterson AND Piper?” to those whose very purpose was to point out that critics miserably and inconsistently failed to do that very thing! To raise the issue of why Patterson and not Piper assumes the rightness of calling both men out.

Third, Leake rightly judges both Patterson and Piper “unwise in their counsel.” Agreed. But since when is unwise counsel an irreconcilable offense? Every single entity head, pastor, and servant in the SBC is guilty of offering unwise counsel. Every single critic of Patterson has offered unwise counsel. The vague charge of unwise counsel by itself just doesn’t rise to the level of firing a president, a pastor, or a denominational servant. I think Leake knows this.

That’s why, fourth, Leake attempts to make Patterson’s offense far worse than Piper’s by listing a “few big differences” so that Piper walks free while Patterson burns at the stake.

1st, Leake says Piper’s not an SBC seminary president. So what? Of primary concern is the moral breach and dishonoring of women, is it not? Whether a pastor, a entity head, an officer, or a denominational worker morally disparages or exploits women in troubled marriages, it should be hands down condemned. But even if it primarily concerned position as Leake wrongly assumes, it’s not the title (i.e. president) among SBs that ultimately matters but influence. Truth be told, John Piper arguably has more influence in the SBC than Paige Patterson presently does. Piper’s deep friendship with Southern Baptist elites cannot reasonably be questioned. Al Mohler, Danny Akin, Russell Moore, Mark Dever. Piper just spoke on the same platform as Mohler at T4G. Frankly it’s absurd to suggest that because Piper is not officially a Southern Baptist or an entity head that somehow that’s supposed to relieve us of dealing with his counsel for a woman to get “smacked” around a bit.

2nd, Leake suggests Piper holds different views and has sought to clarify. But following the link Leake uses, while Piper clarifies his view somewhat, not a single indication exists Piper “changed his mind.” Not one.

3rd, Leake says it’s not just about Patterson’s words in 2000 but “there’s more going on here” citing the illustration Patterson allegedly used concerning a 16 year old girl. But that ax slings both ways. Piper only recently made culturally ignorant remarks concerning suggesting the #metoo movement was based upon egalitarianism, an assertion without the least bit of evidence. Piper also was forced recently to delete two tweets about an Oklahoma tornado that killed 24 people insensitively suggesting his extreme views of God’s sovereignty. So, Leake’s appeal to “more than this” only leads to quoting more and more gaffs by public figures. Even so, Leake receives Piper’s clarification prima facie genuine and sincere but flat-out rejects Patterson’s clarification–”the biggest issue for me personally is the way Patterson has doubled down.” Unfortunately, Leake doesn’t offer any substance to his “biggest issue” other than asserting it. But reading Patterson’s clarification reveals Leake’s incontrovertible bias at play here. Patterson not only explicitly said the words he spoke were most likely “unwise”–the very description Leake used concerning both Piper and Patterson’s words– but Patterson also unequivocally stated, “my suggestion was never that women should stay in the midst of abuse, hoping their husbands would eventually come to Christ. Rather, I was making the application that God often uses difficult things that happen to us to produce ultimate good. And I will preach that truth until I die.” Leake is simply unfair to Patterson’s clarification suggesting all he did was “double down.” What Patterson did indicate he’d “double down” on was, he’d never, ever counsel anyone to get a divorce. Period. Why? For him, the Bible offers no solution in divorce. In the end, all Leake appears to do is attempt to absolve his hero, John Piper, from wrongdoing all the while sitting back to watch Paige Patterson burn at the stake. The sheer, blind-spot bias some critics possess remains disturbing for the Body of Christ.

Source: https://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2018/05/karen-swallow-prior-on-john-pipers-counselling-to-women-in-troubled-marriages-jonathan-merritt-ed-stetzer-paige-patterson.html

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