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Unbearable Slowness of 4th Turnings, Part 1 and Part 2

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By Jim Quinn  /  The Burning Platform

 

Part 1

“The next Fourth Turning is due to begin shortly after the new millennium, midway through the Oh-Oh decade. Around the year 2005, a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. Remnants of the old social order will disintegrate. Political and economic trust will implode. Real hardship will beset the land, with severe distress that could involve questions of class, race, nation and empire. The very survival of the nation will feel at stake. Sometime before the year 2025, America will pass through a great gate in history, commensurate with the American Revolution, Civil War, and twin emergencies of the Great Depression and World War II.” – Strauss & Howe The Fourth Turning 

This Fourth Turning was ignited suddenly in September 2008 as the housing bubble, created by the Federal Reserve and their criminal puppeteer owners on Wall Street, collapsed, revealing the greatest control fraud in world history. A crisis mood was catalyzed as the stock market dropped 50%, unemployment surged to highs not seen since 1981, foreclosures exploded, and captured politicians bailed out the criminal bankers with the tax dollars of the victims.

The mood of the country darkened immediately as average Americans flooded their congressmen’s websites and phone lines with a demand not to bailout the felonious Wall Street banks with $700 billion of TARP. But they ignored their supposed constituents and revealed who they are truly beholden to.

Trust in the political and financial system disintegrated and has further deteriorated as the ruling elite continue to loot and pillage as if the 2008/2009 global financial meltdown never happened. From the perspective of the archaic social order there is no longer a crisis. The recovery narrative, flogged ceaselessly by the crooked establishment and their propaganda fake news corporate media mouthpieces, has convinced millions of willfully ignorant Americans progress is occurring.

Could they be right? Is the Crisis over? Has this Fourth Turning been managed to a successful conclusion by central bankers issuing tens of trillions in debt, politicians spending tens of trillions supplied by taxpayers, bankers rigging financial markets, and consumers leveraging up to maintain their lifestyles? Has the exiting corrupt social order successfully retained their power, control and influence over the masses by manipulating the levers of society and fending off their demise? Have they already won?

This Fourth Turning just passed its ninth anniversary. The Civil War Fourth Turning lasted only five years, but that was because it was accelerated, with an enormous amount of bloodshed crammed into a short time frame. The American Revolution Crisis lasted twenty one years. The Great Depression/World War II Crisis lasted seventeen years. All three prior American Fourth Turnings ended with an all-out decisive war, with clear victors and vanquished.

Based on historical precedent, this Fourth Turning shouldn’t reach its resolution until the mid-2020’s, with a major global conflict on the near term horizon. Those who understand that something wicked this way comes are frustrated by the apparent slowness of the progression. They shouldn’t be too anxious for an acceleration.

Since Strauss & Howe didn’t formulate their generational theory until 1997, this is the first Fourth Turning in which some people understand the dynamics driving the Crisis. Does knowledge about a cycle change the underlying forces propelling history? Has the establishment oligarchy co-opted the crisis mood of the country to avoid its own demise? Or, is this Fourth Turning just proceeding according to the standard morphology along its two decade long test of survival?

I honestly don’t know. This is my first and only Fourth Turning. What I do know is the Crisis began in the time frame predicted by Strauss & Howe. The catalyst was the 2008 financial meltdown created by Wall Street and the Federal Reserve, just as they had done in 1929 to catalyze the previous Fourth Turning. Strauss and Howe documented the four stages of a Fourth Turning.

  • A Crisis era begins with a catalyst – a startling event (or sequence of events) that produces a sudden shift in mood.
  • Once catalyzed, a society achieves a regeneracy – a new counterentropy that reunifies and reenergizes civic life.
  • The regenerated society propels toward a climax – a crucial moment that confirms the death of the old order and birth of the new.
  • The climax culminates in a resolution – a triumphant or tragic conclusion that separates the winners from losers, resolves the big public questions, and establishes the new order.

The 2008 global financial meltdown most certainly produced a sudden shift in mood. Average working class Americans saw their retirement savings obliterated for the second time in the space of eight years. Millions lost their jobs and got thrown out of their homes by the Wall Street bankers who perpetrated the greatest financial fraud in world history. The American citizens, who overwhelmingly disapproved of TARP, were disregarded as captured corrupt congressmen handed $700 billion of taxpayer funds to the Wall Street criminals.

The darker shift in mood produced the Tea Party movement and the Occupy Wall Street movement. Both movements were co-opted by the establishment and effectively extinguished as change agents. Over the next seven years a massive debt produced bubble has been blown in stock, bond and real estate markets to benefit only those in the upper echelon of wealth. Wall Street is winning in a blowout over Main Street.

As 2015 morphed into the historic year of vitriol, hate, fake news, Russians, pussy grabbing, and an all-out establishment effort to discredit and defeat Donald Trump – 2016 saw battle lines drawn and combatants armed. The oligarchs used every propaganda trick in their bag. They used their vast limitless wealth to insure the election of their hand-picked candidate – Hillary Clinton. Black Lives Matter terrorists slaughtered policemen in cold blood. Social justice warriors were triggered on campuses across the land, retreating to safe spaces with crayons and coloring books.

Antifa fascists rioted, beat Trump supporters and attempted to shutdown free speech at every opportunity. Violent clashes, provoked by leftists, roiled the country and hardened the resolve of normal people in flyover America. The fake news corporate media produced fake polls showing an overwhelming victory for Clinton. The ruling elite underestimated the anger among the silent majority. Trump won an unlikely victory.

The basket of deplorables and millions of other disillusioned regular people chose the Grey Champion of this Fourth Turning on November 8, 2016. It was possibly the biggest upset in presidential history. The long awaited regeneracy had arrived. Just as the election of FDR marked the regeneracy of the last Fourth Turning, the election of Donald Trump marks the regeneracy moment of this Crisis.

His election has energized the country in positive and negative ways. He has unified factions for and against his agenda. His election has revealed an ingrained establishment (aka swamp creatures) inhabited by politicians of both parties who are intent on sabotaging his presidency. The first ten months of his presidency has been a tumultuous clash between an entrenched establishment and a tweeting, insulting, volatile, unpredictable, rude outsider real estate mogul from NYC.

The mood of the country has clearly darkened as 2017 has progressed. There is no middle ground or compromise. The tension between the two Americas rises with each mass shooting, Russian collusion revelation, exposure of media bias, proof of Hollywood degradation, judicial overreach, Soros funded staged protests, Donna Brazile tell all book and censorship actions by Twitter, Facebook, and other left wing slanted media outlets.

Only 24% of Americans think the country is headed in the right direction, and they are right. With a $20 trillion national debt, $200 trillion of unfunded welfare liabilities, pension plans underfunded by hundreds of billions, rampant governmental corruption, blatant Wall Street criminality, undeclared wars being waged across the globe, and a feeble minded corporate propaganda media spewing fake news, the nation has already hit the iceberg and the ship is going down.

The level of divisiveness and anger in this country grows exponentially, with the flames being fanned by the corporate media intent on creating a civil war. Battle lines are being drawn between Republicans and Democrats; the establishment GOP and the Steve Bannon alt-right disciples; far left Sanders Democrats and Clinton partisans; BLM terrorists and police; Soros funded Antifa scum and free speech conservatives; SJW’s and normal people; elites and deplorables; whites and blacks; liberals and conservatives; Wall Street and Main Street; Hollywood deviants and people with morals; Muslims and infidels; those who are awake and those who are ignorant; gun owners and gun confiscators; surveillance state and citizens being surveilled; young and old; haves and have nots; workers and parasites; government union workers and taxpayers; left wing academia and those with common sense; arrogant hubristic oligarchs and humble hard working Americans.

If you can’t comprehend the sense of foreboding engulfing the nation and the globe, you aren’t paying attention. Despite a global recovery narrative and record high stock markets supercharged by irresponsible debasing schemes implemented by captured central bankers, the world is hurtling relentlessly toward conflict, war and bloodshed. Every previous American Fourth Turning saw an upwards ratchet in violence, death and technological killing devices. This Fourth Turning will see a continuation of this trend. Fourth Turning wars are always decisive, with clear winners and losers.

The Revolutionary War erupted two years after the Boston Tea Party catalyst and lasted for eight years. The Civil War swept the country into conflict shortly after Lincoln’s election. The Second World War didn’t encroach on the lives of Americans until 12 years after the 1929 Great Crash. Each Crisis will have its own dynamics, pace, and timing, based upon specific events, leadership decisions, and generational reactions to the incidents and episodes driving the crisis. We are in year nine of this Fourth Turning and a looming bloody conflict is just over the horizon, but the vast majority of the American populace is unprepared and unaware for such a trial by fire.

The 2008 volcanic eruption has continued to flow along the channels of distress impacting nations across the globe. Yeoman efforts by the Deep State to keep the molten flow within controlled channels are failing, with the eruption about to burst free and cause global havoc on a grand scale, as predicted by Strauss & Howe.

“Imagine some national (and probably global) volcanic eruption, initially flowing along channels of distress that were created during the Unraveling era and further widened by the catalyst. Trying to foresee where the eruption will go once it bursts free of the channels is like trying to predict the exact fault line of an earthquake. All you know in advance is something about the molten ingredients of the climax, which could include the following:

  • Economic distress, with public debt in default, entitlement trust funds in bankruptcy, mounting poverty and unemployment, trade wars, collapsing financial markets, and hyperinflation (or deflation)
  •  
  • Social distress, with violence fueled by class, race, nativism, or religion and abetted by armed gangs, underground militias, and mercenaries hired by walled communities
  •  
  • Political distress, with institutional collapse, open tax revolts, one-party hegemony, major constitutional change, secessionism, authoritarianism, and altered national borders
  •  
  • Military distress, with war against terrorists or foreign regimes equipped with weapons of mass destruction” 

 The Fourth Turning – Strauss & Howe

The American Revolution military conflict was with an external enemy. The Civil War was an internal conflict between Americans. World War II was again an external conflict. Will the coming conflict be domestic, foreign or both? Every Fourth Turning has internal and external struggles and skirmishes. Loyalists battled patriots during the American Revolution. Both sides attempted to seek European support during the Civil War.

A resolute opposition despised FDR and even sought to organize a military coup to seize power of the government. This Fourth Turning is progressing along a dual path of internal and external clashes destined to define the events which will propel the world towards a climax and resolution of this fourth crisis period in U.S. history.

The apparent slowness of this Fourth Turning is not unusual and the rise in the stock market in the midst of the crisis does not alleviate the dire circumstances of the crisis. From its low in 1932 the stock market rose by over 400% by 1937, in the midst of the Great Depression, before another 45% plunge. The current Fed financed stock market rally has driven stocks up about 400% from the 2009 lows. Stock markets do not define when a crisis has ended for the majority of Americans because so few people own a significant amount of stock.

The average American suffered economic hardship throughout the 1930s, just as average Americans have continued to suffer economic hardship since 2008. As Americans dealt with privation and poverty in the late 1930s the coming global conflict was brewing. Animosities, prejudices and resentments, exacerbated by economic turmoil, stirred militaristic ambitions of hubristic rulers in Europe and Asia. The parallels with the current international dynamic are eerie. The exact timing of the chaotic dangerous portion of this Fourth Turning is uncertain, but it can’t be escaped.

“Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning the way you might today distance yourself from news, national politics, or even taxes you don’t feel like paying. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted. The Fourth Turning necessitates the death and rebirth of the social order. It is the ultimate rite of passage for an entire people, requiring a luminal state of sheer chaos whose nature and duration no one can predict in advance.” – Strauss & Howe –The Fourth Turning

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/11/13/the-unbearable-slowness-of-fourth-turnings/


PART 2

In Part 1 of this article I provided the background regarding the phases of Fourth Turnings and where we stand nine years into this period of crisis. I will now ponder what could happen during the remainder of this Fourth Turning.

“History offers no guarantees. Obviously, things could go horribly wrong – the possibilities ranging from a nuclear exchange to incurable plagues, from terrorist anarchy to high-tech dictatorship. We should not assume that Providence will always exempt our nation from the irreversible tragedies that have overtaken so many others: not just temporary hardship, but debasement and total ruin. Losing in the next Fourth Turning could mean something incomparably worse. It could mean a lasting defeat from which our national innocence – perhaps even our nation – might never recover.” – Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

The most important point to comprehend is the death of the existing social order always occurs during the course of a Fourth Turning. Thus far, those constituting the Deep State hierarchy have fended off their demise. They are utilizing every tool at their disposal to retain their wealth, power and control. As their mass media propaganda machine falters, they have redoubled their rigging of financial markets to promote a narrative of economic recovery, while further enriching themselves and their cronies.

It is clear they have reached the peak of financial manipulation, money printing, and artificial interest rate suppression. The narrative is faltering. Their last and final option to retain power is war. As their “everything bubble” (stocks, bonds, real estate) inevitably implodes, civil and/or global military conflict will be utilized to distract the populace from their Deep State domestic disasters.

The time for compromise is long past. There are no moderates left in the political spectrum. The mood of the country is clearly trending towards conflict. Trump, as the grey champion of this Fourth Turning, has proven to be a lightning rod of hate. He infuriates his political opponents, the left wing media, many in his own party, foreign leaders, billionaires and most worrisome to his well-being – the shadowy surveillance state intel operatives.

His own FBI and CIA have been subverting his presidency and attempting to initiate his impeachment or as a last resort – coup. After running a campaign championing a reduction in foreign military intervention in the Middle East, reducing commitments to NATO and increasing cooperation with Russia, it appears Trump has been taken into a room and told the military industrial complex calls the shots. Trump has clearly made a self-preservation decision to avoid being JFK’d.

The possibility of global catastrophe is not taken seriously by the vast majority of Americans. It’s been over seventy years since the last global conflict and most of the people who experienced the horror are dead. We’ve forgotten the past and are condemned to relive it, just as we do every eighty or so years. The lack of volatility in financial markets portends drastic levels of volatility as the perception markets can’t fall has lured Wall Street 30 something MBAs and the investor class into a sense of invincibility.

Geopolitical tensions have been rising dramatically over the last few years, with religious extremism, oil, petro-dollar, historical rivalries and nationalism driving the world towards conflict. These extreme economic and geopolitical stresses are coinciding along the same timeline and will erupt simultaneously, catalyzing the climactic half of this Fourth Turning.

“The risk of catastrophe will be very high. The nation could erupt into insurrection or civil violence, crack up geographically, or succumb to authoritarian rule. If there is a war, it is likely to be one of maximum risk and effort – in other words, a total war. Every Fourth Turning has registered an upward ratchet in the technology of destruction, and in mankind’s willingness to use it.” – Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

With the House of Saud descending into madness as religious zealots, kings, princes, and foreign infiltrators vie for control of their depleting oil riches, and tens of billions in high tech weaponry provided by American arms dealers, a Middle East conflagration is a certainty. Iran has been winning the proxy wars in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen. Saudi Arabia and Israel are determined to stop Iran’s expansion at any cost.

Mixing religious extremism, oil riches, gas pipelines, opium, egotistical dictators, nuclear bombs, hatred and territorial ambitions into the deepening militaristic global mood change is destined to spark a chain reaction of unintended consequences and unyielding responses. The next Middle East war will not be a proxy war. It will be a fight to the death.

You need a scorecard to figure out the alliances, opponents and wildcards. Iran appears to be aligned with Iraq, Qatar, Syria, Hezbollah, Yemen, and Russia. Saudi Arabia appears to be aligned with Israel, UAE, and the United States. Various factions, who include Turkey, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the Kurds, are fighting one or more of these parties. In many cases the enemy of my enemy is my friend applies.

Peace and compromise are out of the question at this point. It’s just a matter of who pulls the trigger to kick off the fireworks. It looks like Saudi Arabia is willing to gamble everything on a final showdown with Iran. Once the shooting starts and the U.S. and Russia are sucked in, all bets are off on what happens next. Diplomacy will not be an option.

This scenario presumes a Korean conflict doesn’t happen first. With reckless actions on the part of Kim Jung Un and reckless rhetoric from both sides, the odds of a Korean conflict are the highest since the 1950s. With three carrier groups sitting off the Korean coastline, just one provocative act or mistake could unleash a fusillade from both sides, killing hundreds of thousands in a matter of days. Global treaties, alliances and economic realities are pushing global powers in unforeseen directions, just as this Fourth Turning enters its most dangerous phase. Human failings are the constant throughout history. But, human failings resulted in 50,000 deaths during the American Revolution Crisis. They could result in hundreds of millions of deaths during this Crisis.

The U.S. and Europe’s provocative actions with NATO forces surrounding Russia, the ongoing Ukraine civil war, the Syrian civil war, and false accusations of rigging the U.S. presidential election have pushed Russia into a closer alliance with China. Saudi Arabia has also strengthened ties with China, as the debt financed shale oil boom has lessened U.S. purchases of OPEC oil.

The EU is falling apart, as debt creation has failed to revive economies, governments are bankrupt, Muslim hordes destroy their social fabric, and a revolutionary spirit is in the air. Germany, France, Sweden and most of Europe have signed their own death warrant by allowing their countries to be invaded by millions of young Muslim men intent on destroying their way of life. Global disorder is expanding exponentially and is surely leading towards war.

War will either be the trigger for the forthcoming financial crash or a direct result of the forthcoming financial crash. The core elements of this Fourth Turning (debt, civic decay, global disorder) are going to juxtapose and connect, accelerating into a chain reaction of chaos, civil uprising, global war, mass casualties, the fall of empires, and ultimately the destruction of the existing social order (aka Deep State).

When Americans see their wealth vaporized for the 3rd time in less than two decades by the same criminal bankers and corrupt politicians, they will not forgive, forget and bail them out again. They will seek out the guilty and make them pay through street justice. The fraudulent Deep State controlled scheme is beyond redemption and must be destroyed in order for a Constitution based free market system to be reintroduced. The result could also be dictatorship or worse. The outcomes will be determined by the actions we take as citizens.

With a debt inundated global economy already slowing; panicked central bankers beginning to take their foot off the accelerator; massively overvalued stock, bond and real estate markets; consumers in debt up to their eyeballs; stagnant wages; rising inflation; currency and trade wars heating up; deficits rising again; and gridlocked legislative bodies, the onset of war in the Middle East would cause oil prices to skyrocket and trigger the stock market collapse 3.0.

At this point, even the slightest hint of wage inflation causing interest rates to rise even modestly would prompt a market meltdown. The perfect storm is headed our way. The triple threats of debt, civic decay and global disorder cannot be avoided. We can’t defy the chaos set in motion by the cyclical nature of history. The seasons cannot be reversed, so we must brace ourselves for the oncoming storms.

“The future’s uncertain and the end is always near.” – Jim Morrison

“No one here gets out alive.” – Jim Morrison

There are no guarantees or certainties regarding what happens over the remaining decade or so of this Fourth Turning. Don’t believe God will exempt our empire from the tragedies that have befallen past empires. Debasement and total ruin are not inconsequential possibilities. Hubris, arrogance, decadence, and debt have devastated previous global empires and are present today in copious quantities as the American Empire enters its critical threshold of national survival. There are a myriad of internal and external competing forces which threaten both the status quo and very existence of our nation.

There will be moments of extreme danger and severe threats in the coming years. I do not consider the Russian people or the Chinese people my enemies, but my government will attempt to convince us to go to war against them, in order to maintain their empire. Human nature has not changed over the course of history, but the technological advancements in warfare have placed the ability to obliterate the planet into the hands of weak minded malevolent men, whose egotism and thirst for power know no bounds. Human flaws and frailties could endanger the world and its inhabitants. Do you trust the leadership of your country to do what’s in your best interest?

I do not trust my government. I do not trust the puppet politician front men for the Deep State. I do not trust the mega-corporations who dominate our economy. I do not trust central bankers and their Wall Street owners. I do not trust the fake news corporate media. I do not trust the military industrial complex. I do not trust the leaders of organized religion.

I trust my own instincts, reasoning ability, and critical thinking skills. I trust my immediate family members. I trust some of my neighbors. I trust more of people I’ve met through my blog than I’ve met face to face. I trust normal people living normal lives across this once great country. I trust the people who distrust the people and things I distrust. As events spiral out of control, we will need to pick and choose our friends carefully.

If or when the government attempts to force my three sons into a war on behalf of the vested interests to retain their wealth and power, I will resist with every ounce of strength in my aging body. They will not become cannon fodder for the Deep State. We don’t know the events and path which will drive the remainder of this crisis, but we do know our choices will matter.

This is no time for apathy and complacency. For those who grasp generational theory and the cycles of history, the seemingly unbearable slowness of this Fourth Turning is actually a blessing. The slowness allows more time to prepare. If you haven’t prepared for the coming saecular winter, time is growing short. The skies are darkening. Our rendezvous with destiny awaits.

    

“Reflect on what happens when a terrible winter blizzard strikes. You hear the weather warning but probably fail to act on it. The sky darkens. Then the storm hits with full fury, and the air is a howling whiteness. One by one, your links to the machine age break down. Electricity flickers out, cutting off the TV. Batteries fade, cutting off the radio. Phones go dead. Roads become impossible, and cars get stuck. Food supplies dwindle.

Day to day vestiges of modern civilization – bank machines, mutual funds, mass retailers, computers, satellites, airplanes, governments – all recede into irrelevance. Picture yourself and your loved ones in the midst of a howling blizzard that lasts several years. Think about what you would need, who could help you, and why your fate might matter to anybody other than yourself. That is how to plan for a saecular winter.

Don’t think you can escape the Fourth Turning. History warns that a Crisis will reshape the basic social and economic environment that you now take for granted.” – Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2017/11/14/the-unbearable-slowness-of-fourth-turnings-part-two/#more-163450



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    • allendaves

      123’s of true Christianity v popular & damnable heresies
      #1 “ANOTHER JESUS”:
      -“ONE” not triune: Mark 12:28…Which is the first commandment of all? 29. …Hear, O Israel; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD: 30. And ………..this is the first commandment….. 31. And the second is….. IF YOU CAN’T GET THIS “FIRST OF ALL COMMANDMENTS” RIGHT, ALL THE REST OF YOUR “FAITH” AND PREACHING ON LOVE & SIN IS MOOT….. (NOTE: And yes, the specific Greek and Hebrew words used also and only define one person contrary to the ridiculous obfuscation attempts of some!?!)
      PART 4 & 5 HOW MANY GODS ARE THERE FOR THE ONE GOD TO TALK TO?? Who was Jesus praying to??!?…. The real question should be … How does having multiple different persons keep this one God/being/entity from praying to himself?! (The trinitarian “schizophrenic” “god-head”) The Trinitarians want to have their cake and eat it too as the saying goes. On the one hand they need to say they only worship one indivisible God being/ entity but on the other hand they feel the need for some reason to keep Jesus or God from praying and talking to himself by dividing him up into different persons!?! It never occurs to them that that since there is only one indivisible God to pray too and Jesus is that indivisible God come in the flesh that he would need to talk to himself as to show us how to live, suffer, pray and die for our/ flesh) benefit not his!?!….. So while Trinitarians are quick to complain that God was not talking to himself at Christ baptism or in Gen “let us” they ignore the logical demands of their own theology! If Jesus is the ONE GOD in flesh and the Father is the SAME ONE GOD in heaven then Trinitarianism demands THE ONE GOD is talking to HIMSELF! Claiming that God is multiple different persons as the reason for why God is not talking to himself (because God is three different “selfs”) only demonstrates that what they really worship is in fact not a ONE GOD who talks to himself but three different god “selfs”/ and they all talk to each other! When they speak about who God was talking and praying to, they are quick to say “the other person, NOT HIMSELF!” But if you ask them how many gods do they pray to then they will say “ONLY ONE”!?! They expect you to believe that those three different persons are THE ONE GOD-BEING” which is like calling three different cars “THE ONE VEHICLE” (text book examples of prov 26:12)

      -PART 5 Echad, Echad, my God, God is Echad!….:The Greek word pros in Jn 1:1 does not show multiple different persons because:

      1. The definitions (without forced conclusions stuffed in) are just as equally valid as reference to parts of the same person (modalisim) Your head and your right arm have close relationship to each other; can be facing, towards, relating to, moving to, in the direction of, to, unto, looking to; even at home with, a living union, in the presence of, a common ground, closeness They are still both distinct and different from each other and yet they are of both the same person. Ironically the scriptures use the very same terms to describe father and son.

      2. Ironically and most hypocritically, the trinitarians are trying to appeal to the anthropomorphisms (they claim this passage implies) to demonstrate different persons while at the same time denying the very anthropomorphisms that God himself specifically in scriptures uses to define the son and the son’s relationship to the father. Apparently only the literal anthropomorphisms that trintiarins “see’ exist while the one’s that God himself uses should not be taken too literal or too anthropomorphic or seriously. Is the face anthropomorphic and or literal face or just some metaphor? Either way the problem for trinitarians still exist and simply does not cease with linguistic distractions. There are many different types of faces; face of a clock; face of a mirror; face of one’s palm. Further, the face of one’s palm would be totally consistent with the anthropomorphism that God uses when discussing his own right arm as the son! So either way, a literal and or anthropomorphic face or a metaphorical face in close relationship only leaves the trinitarinas peddling an empty argument hoping no one notices the fact that this argument is nothing more then delusional smoke and mirrors for “the faithful” and for everyone else, well, just “never mind that man behind the curtain”.

      3. You cant appeal to your own desired and or preconceived conclusions as evidence that your methodology in arriving at your conclusions are valid. [ie the use of Jn 1:18 et al as proof that Jn1:1 supports different persons in Jn1:18 et al or visa versa ] How difficult can they make these simple things? The God in heaven is a he but cannot be known except by the he who is the same God in flesh! So why can’t they be the same he again? It should not be difficult to understand since:

      A. The same God who is in heaven is on earth and the difference need only be of circumstance which at least we know that much to be factually true [spirit only v spirit in human flesh] There is no further need or demand for different individual persons since all the different he’s are in fact the same HE!. Trying to claim that God is multiple different “He(s)” who make up the one being either leaves your God to be a “it” that consist of different he(s) or a“God being” who is a he while simultaneously consisting of different individual he(s) [Father-he; Son=he; Holy Spirit=he].

      B. If you find no difficulty in accepting that God is a he that consist of father son and holy spirit also referred to each as a different he and yet all the same he then what is the point to claiming different persons again? How is the multitude of hes who are all the same he show or demand different persons rather than different circumstances of the same person who is in fact “HE”?

      In any case, the trinitarian inconsistency and or incoherence will never be resolved by simply chalking it all up to “how great thou art” unless you willingly and blindly “drink the cool aid” calling it “faith”. True faith is in the words of God (including the specific anthropomorphism God himself uses) not in wild created imaginations of three different persons with different minds, locations and instructions for each other that is somehow not a pantheon of three gods who are “one”!….To deny the father is to deny the son because they are one and the same person that came in the flesh! Trinitarians confess & preach literally …”ANOTHER JESUS” 2 Cor 11:4

      -JOHN 14: 8-20 ….[Note Isaiah 9:6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: …: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, … the everlasting Father] ….The son, father/Holy Spirit are all the same person, NOT like two different persons working together even as “one flesh” ….The “oneness” between Christ and the father is not comparable to a man & his wife, for only a fool would say “When you have seen me you have seen my wife, how sayest thou then, Shew us your wife?” Notice they asked to see THE FATHER and the response was Jn 14:9 ..“HAVE I BEEN SO LONG time with you, and yet hast THOU NOT KNOW ME, Philip…..Now image some fool trying to claim that statement if you asked to see his wife!?!!? You want to see the FATHER but have I been with you but you don’t know me!?!?!
      Jn 14 continued….…………..17. Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; (Jn 14:6 I AM the way, THE TRUTH,) whom the world cannot receive, .. for HE DEWLLETH WITH YOU, (present tense/standing next to them in the flesh) and SHALL BE IN YOU… (future tense “In them”) 18. I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU (future tense “In them”) Jesus himself here makes the point that the same person who was the HOLY SPIRIT that would come was standing next to them but lets them know “I will come to you again to be Inside of you”

      -The whole point to Gal 3:20.a mediator is NOT A MEDIATOR OF ONE, (HEIS) but GOD IS ONE. (HEIS) again, point blank, identifies the number of persons of God! The “but” points out the contrast between multiple persons in a mediation party v the “one” of God. God is not like a mediation party with multiple different persons. …..”the express image of his person” ( the person of God; singular not plural) Any attempt to lay claim otherwise is willful ignorance and delusional nonsense

      -Like a thief in your house caught stealing your things insisting he was not there stealing “I CONFESS I am NOT stealing”. You just do not “properly understand” what he is doing/saying. Further, since you never had a “proper understanding” of what he is doing/saying you have no business accusing him since you do not even know what you are talking about in the first place. It is with and in your own ignorance that you base your “false accusations” & “ad homonym attacks” against him…… Ridiculous of course it is ……2Thess 2:11; Titus 1:16; 2Tim 3:5; TRINITARIANS CONFESS JESUS /THEY ARE NOT POLYTHEIST BUT ARE MONOTHEIST LIKE A LIAR & THIEF WHO “CONFESS” THEY DO NOT LIE OR STEAL The simple fact is that just because you confess or deny that you are in an adulterous relationship and denounce all forms of adultery has nothing to do with whether or not it is in fact adulterous! .. …A rose by any other name is still just a rose AND calling it a water lily does not change the definition of what a water Lilly or a rose is either!…

      -This should have given you a hint, harking back to Satan in The garden…God said you will die…Satan comes along and states no you will be more WISE……Today .God said He is one; but Satan’s children come along and say no three is more WISE and humble in the face of God’s grandeur only “a mystery” that can be understood “in faith”. God uses head and right arm to explain the distinctions between father and son.. However, the Trinitarian heretics say to the effect: “NO, that is just a figure of speech, or that is not what God really means. What God is really saying is that God is three different persons”. Fools, hypocrites and blind guides, God said he was One and by your traditions have taken the words of God and made them of no effect, refashioning God into the image of your vain imaginations!
      You can download the complete FREE book from
      https://www.scribd.com/doc/305367608/The-Trinity-Heresy
      OR
      https://www.academia.edu/23463667/THE_TRINITY_HERESY
      OR
      http://www.globethics.net/gtl/10920799

      #2 “ANOTHER GOSPEL”:
      -If you ask most people what the Good news or Gospel is they will probably tell you about the virgin birth or Christ death burial and resurrection. This would be rather humorous if it was not so sad considering that for the three and half years of Christ ministry he does not mention hardly ever. However, Christ does spend a lot of time preaching out of the OT scriptures. Now imagine given a report or manual to read and understand, that makes reference to and even quotes other source material and then ignoring that source material when it comes to defining the context and meanings of words in the report or manual you are trying to make sense of. If that seems dysfunctional that is because it is. This is, however, what most people are doing when it comes to understanding sound NT doctrine and or even what the Gospel message of Jesus was. The mystery of the gospel was not the death, burial and resurrection although it is part of it. In fact, death, burial and resurrection was the sign, the only sign, that Jesus gave to validate that the gospel message he was preaching all that time was true……and yet most deny it!?!?!

      -The “2nd coming”… “I come quickly” so “Hold fast till i come”… NOT …“in another 2000 years I might be coming soon any time now, so hold fast”!?! …those that deny the second coming of Christ in the war of AD70 (in their lifetime) are practicing a damnable heresy in denying the Lord that bought them ( 2Peter 2:1-2 ;2Tim 4:8/ you cant love an appearing you deny& the context is the 2nd coming not the first)… Mat 7:23..”I NEVER KNEW YOU” …..Mat 10:33. But whosoever shall deny me before men……..sound familiar?…. If I said I am coming to your house in this generation when these things happen but no one knows the day or hour what fool would think I might be coming in 2000 years latter!?!? ..2 Tim 4: 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be TURNED UNTO FABLES. The “idea”/ doctrine that Jesus has not yet returned but “soon any day now soon” does not just make God out a liar; it is not just ridiculous but makes Christianity a mockery, A pathetic “ship of fools”!?!
      -The following example excerpt from Bertrand Russell: sometimes quoted by atheist et al and from his published work “Why I Am Not A Christian”
      Defects in Christ’s Teaching
      Having granted the excellence of these maxims, I come to certain points in which I do not believe that one can grant either the superlative wisdom or the superlative goodness of Christ as depicted in the Gospels; …. I am concerned with Christ as He appears in the Gospels, taking the Gospel narrative as it stands, and there one does find some things that do not seem to be very wise. For one thing, he certainly thought that His second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at that time. There are a great many texts that prove that. He says, for instance, “Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come.” Then he says, “There are some standing here which shall not taste death till the Son of Man comes into His kingdom”; and there are a lot of places where it is quite clear that He believed that His second coming would happen during the lifetime of many then living. That was the belief of His earlier followers, and it was the basis of a good deal of His moral teaching. When He said, “Take no thought for the morrow,” and things of that sort, it was very largely because He thought that the second coming was going to be very soon, and that all ordinary mundane affairs did not count. I have, as a matter of fact, known some Christians who did believe that the second coming was imminent. I knew a parson who frightened his congregation terribly by telling them that the second coming was very imminent indeed, but they were much consoled when they found that he was planting trees in his garden. The early Christians did really believe it, and they did abstain from such things as planting trees in their gardens, because they did accept from Christ the belief that the second coming was imminent. In that respect, clearly He was not so wise as some other people have been, and He was certainly not superlatively wise.
      https://www.scribd.com/doc/305366745/Revelation-the-First-Gospel-of-the-Kingdom
      OR
      http://www.globethics.net/gtl/5455069
      OR
      https://www.academia.edu/23464127/REVELATION_THE_FIRST_GOSPEL_OF_THE_KINGDOM
      Amazon/Barns & Nobel et al
      978-1-4907-0590-3 (SC ISBN)

      #3 GOD LOVES EVERYONE; Jesus Died for “you”…… Just “come as you are”
      Does God love you?….”Probably” NOT!….and NO Jesus did not die for everyone!?!……There is a sharp contrast between THREE groups : A. The predestined damned B. the “many” called C. The “Few” Chosen
      Predestination….its true..its all true… God does NOT love everyone:

      Prov 8: 17. I LOVE THEM THAT LOVE ME …………
      1John 5:3. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:

      (1) “PREDESTINED DAMNED” who were NEVER written in the book of life ………..Rev 17: 8 WHOSE NAMES WERE NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, …as contrasted …EPH 1: 4. According as he hath CHOSEN US in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD

      (2) “MANY CALLED”= ONLY and ALL SAINTS (those who come to Christ) are written in the book of life … Philippians 4:3… ……Rev 21:27; (Only saints are Called and elect; Rom 1:6-7 et al) This is THE CHRUCH and ONLY these can have their names blotted out of the book of life ….….Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and CHURCH of the firstborn … WHICH ………are WRITTEN in heaven,

      (3) THE FEW CHOSEN: Those saints who were alive in group #2 who are now physically dead. They died “faithful” these are the FEW that were chosen faithful…….Rev 3:5. ……; and I
      will not BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, (Ps 69:28) …. These are the FEW that are CHOSEN and now that they have died and are saved then “once saved THEY CAN NEVER BE LOST”

      PS: “The world” that God so loved was not the Roman world nor the world of the Maya nor the world you imagined in your head that God specifically told them NOT TO LOVE!?!
      https://www.scribd.com/doc/306868420/Most-True-Christians-Go-to-Hell
      OR
      http://www.globethics.net/gtl/10920800
      OR
      https://www.academia.edu/25217564/Most_True_Christains_Go_to_Hell

      THE THIEF-BAPTISM-GRACE& THE NAME-LORD & LT

      “whosoever shall call on THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved”
      ………So WHAT “NAME” did you “CALL UPON”?……
      Rev 19:13. .. and HIS NAME IS called THE WORD OF GOD
      Ps 138:2. praise THY NAME … for thou hast magnified THY WORD ABOVE ALL THY NAME -
      NOTE: God placed His “THE WORD” ABOVE all of God’s various NAMEs – and Jesus NAME IS called “THE WORD” no other name saves. The MOST important name we should KNOW and CALL UPON is “THE WORD”; Not letters that spell “word” but the sayings/ doctrine/commands. It does NOT say “thy word is given a name above other names because here THY WORD is identified as the name that is placed above all other names.
      Isaiah 52:1. . 6. Therefore MY PEOPLE SHALL KNOW MY NAME: ..What NAME do you “KNOW”.?
      1Jn 2:3. And HEREBY WE DO KNOW that we KNOW HIM, if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS./ Titus 1: 16. They profess that THEY KNOW God; but IN WORKS THEY DENY him…
      “AT the name OF JESUS”…..Jesus has a name that belongs to Jesus…just like the name OF GOD means a name that belongs to GOD but it is ridiculous to suggest that the letters G-O-D is that name…likewise the name OF JESUS is NOT the letters J-E-S-U-S. Why would anyone think that you could pronounce THE HIGHEST NAME OF GOD letter by letter…. (ie Judges 13:18; 2Cor 12:4 but God’s name is not as great and or “unspeakable )
      Rev 3:8 kept MY WORD, and hast not DENIED MY NAME; …
      .Jn 17:6. I have MANIFESTED THY NAME And they have KEPT THY WORD.;
      THE WORD is THE NAME above every name that saves us 1Pt 3:21 The ONE baptism(Eph 4:5) is into THE WORD ( which is also baptism in the Holy spirit Jn 6:63the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit ) ..ALL the sayings doctrines and commands….what did THE WORD that became flesh command? (Mat 28:19)…..what did THE WORD exemplify? (Mat 3:15/ Jn 4:1)………among other things…..YES .water baptism is just as essential and necessary for much a part of salvation (1Pt 3:21) as is keeping one self away from works of the flesh (Gal 5:21)….In fact obedience to the command of water baptism is specifically identified as the act of calling on the name of the Lord (Col 2:12 “……though the operation[work] of God” CAN ANY MAN BE SAVED WITHOUT GOD WORKING ON HIM?) …..THE WORD OF GOD is the name of God that men call upon OR…OR ..they DENY with their disobedience
      The scriptures tell us almost nothing about the thief’s life. However, the scriptures tell us a great deal about Christ life……Jesus had been around for 3.5 years before the cross and was Baptizing (Jn 4:1-2 in fact He instructed his disciples to do so and did many more then John the Baptist ever did) …..Those who try to appeal to the thief on the cross assume the thief had never heard of Jesus preaching and had never ever been baptized….The burden of Proof is on those who say baptism is not essential! ………..You can’t claim a logically valid “non-essentiality” doctrinal argument on ANYTHING based on what the scriptures do not say and in spite of the things it clearly does state to the opposite effect!…That is like looking at the constitutional law and then basing a argument against a constitutional principle in law based on the fact that history did not record for us what some unknown cattle thief did or did not do a 150 years ago?!?! What??..Who cares?? We know what the constitution did say 150 years ago. I don’t know of any Law school that bases its teaching on constitutional law based on what history does not tell us about unknown cattle thieves!?! ..Jesus command, preached & practiced Baptism so did the apostles ….To build one’s theology on the fact that the scriptures do not tell us ANY detail(s) of the thief’s life before the cross (we know almost absolutely nothing about the thief!!) it is quite foolish and willfully ignorant of what the scriptures do say about baptism…….so those who try to use the thief are in effect building their house on the sand of what scriptures do not say about a thief in spite of what the scriptures do specifically tell us about baptism!?!… “Their damnation is just” comes to mind…
      https://www.scribd.com/document/326686356/Thief-Cross-3D OR https://www.academia.edu/23846490/Thief_and_Cross_3D

      Assertions and descriptions no matter how vivid and or emphatically employed demonstrate nothing.

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