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When Was The Ice Age In Biblical History?

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Vine of Life News, your premier Christian news source.

Special Feature by Andrew Snelling and Mike Matthews, February 26, 2013

The Bible doesn’t say, “And then there was an Ice Age.” Yet it does give us the big picture of human history—as well as some critical details—which help us narrow down when the ice built up and then melted away.

Just down the road from Cincinnati in the north central USA is Big Bone Lick, “the cradle of American paleontology.” The discovery of huge bones from mastodons, giant sloths, and other Ice Age creatures sparked the first scientific expedition to collect vertebrate fossils in North America. In 1807 President Thomas Jefferson sent General William Clark (of “Lewis and Clark” fame) to gather bones and ship them to the White House. Among the treasures Clark found were spear points.

After two centuries of research, we now have enough information to begin recreating scenes from the rise and fall of the Ice Age. As a massive ice sheet expanded over Canada, it drove out most living things, and then it continued to push south into the Ohio valley. Eventually, the heavy snows stopped and the earth warmed. Once the ice began to melt, animals returned to Big Bone Lick, along with spear-wielding humans. Museums worldwide depict similar scenes from this unique era.

But it is still difficult to interpret the earth’s dynamic past based on present, slow processes. During the Ice Age the earth’s landscapes, forests, and grasslands bore little resemblance to our own. Indeed, the thick ice sheets drew so much water out of the ocean that large tracts of ocean floor became dry ground. Herds of animals wandered across a 1,000-mile-wide grassy plain that stretched from Asia across the Bering Strait to North America, and people actually lived in the lowlands between England and Europe. (Fishermen in the North Sea sometimes dredge up their stone tools, which look surprisingly similar to those found at Big Bone Lick!)

Many pieces of the “Ice Age puzzle” remain unsolved, but one thing is sure. Based on the Bible, we can be certain that the changes occurred within just a few human generations—not over millions of years. What follows is only a benchmark based on our starting parameters.

When Did the Ice Age Begin?

The Bible gives us many clues to help us nail down the real time frame of the Ice Age. For example, when did it begin?

Bible Fact: Eight Generations from the Flood to Abraham

The Bible gives us an inerrant chronology for marking historical events. It tells exactly how many human generations passed from the Flood to Abraham’s birth: eight.1 God’s judgment occurred at Babel sometime during the days of Peleg, who was the fourth generation after the Flood (Genesis 10:25; see the timeline below).2

Click chart to enlarge.

The Bible also reveals that humanity stayed at the plains around Babel until “the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth” (Genesis 11:9).3 This means that at least three generations passed between the Flood and the first appearance of humans in Africa, Asia, and Europe. Meanwhile, the animals on the Ark had already fulfilled God’s command to “abound on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 8:17). 4

The Bible also tells us precisely how many years passed from Peleg’s birth to Abraham’s birth. According to the most-often used Hebrew version of the Old Testament (the Masoretic text),5 the total is 190 years.6 Each generation lasted about thirty years until Abraham’s father, Terah. He waited seventy years to have children, so you could say he waited two generations, making a total of either five or six generations from Babel to Abraham.

With this information, can we set an approximate date for the start of the Ice Age?

Geological Fact: Growth of Arctic Ice Sheets

The “Ice Age” is an informal expression. So first it is necessary to define the term before discussing its timeline.

In secular thinking the Ice Age does not refer to the first formation of ice on the planet. Indeed, forests grew on Antarctica and the Arctic before ice began to form.7 Drilling down through Antarctica’s ice sheet, scientists have found in sediment layers beneath the ice sheet fossils of a subtropical rainforest, complete with palm trees and macadamia trees. For these to grow, the land would have to be frost-free for a brief time after the Flood.

As the earth cooled, however, grasslands expanded on the continent, while the forests changed to deciduous trees and tundra. Finally, the whole continent was covered by ice, which marked the beginning of the post-Flood cool-down. In the old-earth view, all this took place millions of years before the Ice Age and without a global Flood.

The “Ice Age” actually refers only to the period when great ice sheets arose in the Northern Hemisphere, well after the Antarctic ice sheet had formed (see above map). The deposits from this time period—caused by moving ice and melting waters—are technically known as the Pleistocene. According to old-age assumptions about radiometric dating, the deposits were laid between 2.6 million years and 11,700 years ago (9,700 BC). As the term Ice Age is used in science publications, its end does not refer to the melting of the ice sheets, but to the rising world temperatures that started the dramatic and relentless retreat of the ice.

Though this range is clearly not accurate because it lies outside the Bible’s total timeline of 6,000 years, several lines of evidence support the choice of the Pleistocene layers for the Ice Age. Anywhere that these layers have been tested by radiometric dating, the ages fall within this range. Also, the plants and animals associated with these layers fit the Pleistocene. Indeed, the woolly mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius) and the saber-tooth cat (Smilodon fatalis)—descendants of the original elephant and cat kinds on the Ark—first occur in these layers and disappear at the end of this time frame, except for a few holdouts on a remote Russian island. (See “Why Were the Animals So Big?” p. 56, which discusses how the first elephant and cat kinds on the Ark might produce all this variety during the Ice Age.)

Apart from Antarctica and a few high mountain chains, sediments deposited before the Ice Age do not show signs of cold-weather environments or ice sheet activity. Indeed, the world appears to have been a pretty balmy place until the Ice Age.

Knowing these things, how can we use the human history described in the Bible to shed light on the Ice Age’s beginning? Well, for one thing, no human tools or fossils appear anywhere on the earth until found in deposits from the beginning of the Ice Age.8 (God appears to have wiped away all remains of pre-Flood man; see Genesis 6:7.) Since their earliest remains suddenly appear throughout the Old World (Asia, Africa, and Europe), it appears that these are the people who scattered from Babel.

It is reasonable to conclude that the start of the Ice Age roughly coincides with the Babel judgment.

So it is reasonable to conclude that the start of the Ice Age in the Northern Hemisphere (the Pleistocene) roughly coincides with the Babel judgment, around a century or so after the Flood (perhaps 2250 BC).

Who knows, perhaps the Ice Age was part of God’s plan to keep people from quickly resettling in one place again. The unpredictable climate would have made it difficult for anyone to settle down and raise seasonal crops in the years immediately following Babel’s dispersion.

When Did the Ice Age End?

The Bible also sheds light on the Ice Age’s end, though in an indirect way. If we can determine the dates of the first cities built after Babel, including Ur, and then show their relationship with dates for the last human and animal remains from the Ice Age, we can establish approximately when the Ice Age ended.

Bible Fact: Thriving Cities by Abraham’s Day

The Bible mentions that some very important cities were established by Abraham’s day and continued to thrive throughout Old Testament times. For instance, the city of Abraham’s nativity was Ur (Genesis 11:28). Abraham later passed through many other cities in Mesopotamia (modern Iraq and Syria), Canaan, and Egypt. Since Abraham grew up in Ur, we know that it must have been founded before his birth.

Another important clue is the Bible’s reference to several familiar domesticated animals, such as camels, oxen, and donkeys, which Abraham and his contemporaries owned. These domestic animals are not the same species as Ice Age fossils of the same created kinds, and they do not appear until cities are well established. (The camels found earlier in the fossil record were not anything you would want to ride!) It appears that most wild versions of these beasts of burden were extinct by Abraham’s time, along with many other Pleistocene mammals (like wild horses in the Americas).

Archaeological Fact: No Cities Associated with Ice Age Remains

The fossil and archaeological record offers us a phenomenal wealth of data from thousands and thousands of sites on every continent. In case after case, radiocarbon dating confirms a general pattern. While the “radiocarbon ages” are wrong because they exceed the Bible’s timeline, the relative ages are useful. If something dates at 40,000 radiocarbon years and something else at 20,000 or 5,000, we know the first find is older than the second, and so on.9

Every fossil from the Ice Age predates anything from the earliest known human settlements.

Radiocarbon dating shows that every fossil from the Ice Age predates anything from the earliest known human settlements. Several cities have been continuously inhabited since Abraham’s day, so it’s not likely that we’re just missing evidence. 10 Many large mammals specifically designed for cold weather went extinct when the Ice Age ended, in a period known as the “Ice Age extinction event” (see “Mystery of the Megafauna Extinction,” p. 57). We are also able to date human fossils and other remains from the earliest human settlements around the world.

In no case do these settlements, including Ur, date as early as the end of the Ice Age. At the time of Ur’s settlement it was a port city on the Persian Gulf, but this gulf did not even exist during the Ice Age. Only later did the melting ice sheets raise the ocean enough to flood into the area and fill the gulf.11

What Were People Doing During the Ice Age?

Archaeologists have found thousands of campsites and small settlements where Noah’s descendants lived after the Babel dispersion during the Ice Age. These early pioneers were daring explorers and settlers, quickly reaching as far as Australia and the Americas. Everywhere they went, they found unfamiliar plants, weather cycles, soils, and wild animals. Cast off from the pampered life of the city, the tiny bands had to invent whole new ways of doing things, including living off the land while caring for their children.

Bible Fact: The Whole Earth Is Settled

The Bible does not reveal much about the biology and geology of the Ice Age, but it does tell us about the languages, culture, and migrations of the people of that time. They began as a united people with one language, capable of accomplishing great feats (Genesis 11:6). But God recognized the danger of unity without obedience to His word, so He scattered the people from Babel.

Twice the Bible repeats that “the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth” (Genesis 11:8–9). Notice that this was the Lord’s doing. This supernatural event is essential for a proper understanding of human history. Yet without God’s written Word archaeologists would have no way of knowing this happened.

Archaeological Fact: Brief Appearance of Neanderthals, Woolly Mammoths, and “Stone Age” Villages

The fossil and archaeological record gives us a wealth of amazing detail about the creatures that Noah’s descendants met and the places where they lived.

Various species of the saber-tooth cat (such as Smilodon fatalis) began appearing as the Ice Age got underway, though not in the areas first settled by humans. The woolly mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius) did not appear until later, but as the cold increased and grasslands spread across northern Asia and North America, its numbers quickly filled the grassy plains. Humans soon followed in their steps.

Another interesting development during the Ice Age was the appearance of Neanderthal people, whose range was restricted to Europe and the Near East. Like all other humans, they were descendants of the people who scattered from Babel. Their remains do not appear until the middle of the Ice Age, and they disappeared as the glaciers reached their maximum and the cold, dry weather reached its worst.12

Their short, squat bodies were better suited for the cold than the taller, thinner bodies of their contemporaries, the Cro-Magnon people (other descendants of Babel people), who looked like us. The Neanderthals used heavy spears to hunt woodland animals, but these woods began disappearing at the height of the Ice Age, to be replaced by grasslands or barren tundra. The Cro-Magnon, in contrast, made finely crafted arrows and other weapons that enabled them to hunt more easily on the open plains. The vast number of the Cro-Magnon campsites and fossils indicate these men and women were more successful at adapting to the changes.

Sometime after the demise of Neanderthal people, the first “stone age” villages begin appearing all over the Old World. We find them by the thousands, in some instances spread over several acres, and apparently predating any “cities” we know of.

It is hard to imagine such extreme changes in weather, landscapes, and vegetation during the rapid Ice Age and the years that followed. Some lush places in the north were stricken by drought, while monsoons filled the Sahara Desert with lakes and grasslands, attracting rhinoceroses, crocodiles, and human settlers. For a time at the end of the Ice Age, the drenched Nile Valley was not even habitable (at least, no human artifacts or villages have been found from this time). The great cities of Memphis and Luxor did not arise until many years later.

The toolmaking technology that archaeologists find is not a record of millions of years of human advancement. These improvements could easily happen within decades after Babel.

Same Stone Tools, Different Views

Stone tools and other artifacts from the Ice Age do not come with signs on them telling us their age and significance. Depending on your starting assumptions, you can reach very different conclusions, even if you start with the very same facts.

Consider one interesting example. Everywhere we find the earliest known stone tools—in Europe, Asia, and Africa—they have the same basic design, called Acheulean tools.* This type of tool appears in most Ice Age layers. Then suddenly, near the end, lots of new styles were adopted, such as the smaller Mousterian blades associated with Neanderthals.

If you believe the Ice Age lasted 2.6 million years, then you must assume human beings were making the same basic tools for at least 50,000 generations before any new ideas were invented. That scenario does not quite fit what we know about human ingenuity.

God’s Word gives us a different picture of human history. The earth is only six thousand years old, and humans lived here since the first week. All the Ice Age peoples were descendants of Noah’s three sons, who already knew how to build ships, towers, and cities.

We would expect the people who scattered from Babel to share many of the same technological skills. They also lived longer than we do, sometimes over four centuries. So they could pass down technology to many generations. In fact, it is conceivable that most of the stone tool innovations occurred within a single generation. (Noah’s son Shem was still alive when Abraham was growing up!)

*Andrew Snelling and Mike Matthews, “When Did Cavemen Live?Answers, April–June 2012, pp. 50–55.

Putting It All Together

Why did people wait so long after Babel to build cities and farm again? Problems included the tiny populations, the threat of skirmishes, and the changing climates. We also know from the fossil record that they faced constant flooding, dust storms, supervolcanoes, massive earthquakes, meteorites, and downpours of snow or rain on a scale never before seen. It was much safer to live off the land and gather wild grains and game, as people still do in harsh environments. On top of those problems was God’s supernatural intervention to scatter the small groups of families over the face of the earth. The very purpose of this judgment, after all, was to limit mankind’s ability to “do whatever they imagine.” And it was clearly successful!

Big Bone Lick is a stark reminder of this difficult time in earth history. The “lick” was a salt deposit that appeared as the ice sheets began retreating. Animals came to lick the salt and then got trapped in the boggy ground. Humans arrived in the area later, at the end of the Ice Age. Their weapons show up in the fossil record about the same time that the large Ice Age mammals went extinct—around 2100–2000 BC. Only later would various cultures begin building pyramid-like mounds and well-defined cities in the Americas, as they did elsewhere in the world.

We still have a lot to learn. But we know for certain that the Bible sheds light that puts our world into perspective, including the Ice Age. In fact, it is essential to a right understanding of reality. That extends to modern worries, such as global warming and endangered species, because our understanding of the future is built upon our correct understanding of the past. If mankind would only take God’s Word to heart, it would transform our thinking in every area, and open up amazing new vistas in science and archaeology.

Dr. Andrew Snelling holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney and has worked as a consultant research geologist in both Australia and America. Author of numerous scientific articles, Dr. Snelling is now director of research at Answers in Genesis–USA.
Mike Matthews earned a BA in English and an MEd in English Education from Bob Jones University. Mike was content manager for the Creation Museum and now is the editor in chief of Answers magazine.

Filed under: BIBLICAL ANSWERS, HISTORY Tagged: Abraham, Answers in Genesis, Bible, Big Bone Lick State Park, Facebook, Ice age, Mike Matthews, North Sea

Vine of Life News, your premier Christian news source.


Source: http://vineoflife.net/2013/05/07/when-was-the-ice-age-in-biblical-history/



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    • Blackie the faithful border collie

      Why bother trying to pretend the bible is anything to do with history or science? You just sound desperate. :grin:

    • Zofonik

      Lol, thanks for the laughs :)

    • Apollo is the A/C

      If you actually read the Bible you wouldn’t make a fool out of yourself. The Bible is VERY clear that there was a flood prior to Noah and prior to Adam. You think Christians that actually study their Bibles think the Earth is 6000 years old? Yes? Well, try talking to one that actually knows what the Word of God really says.
      ———————————————————————————————————————————
      For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they HAD NO LIGHT, and, lo, THERE WAS NO MAN, and ALL the birds(**Noah sent out a Dove) of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. JEREMIAH 4:22-27

      And the earth became (Strongs 01961) without form, and desolate; GENESIS 1:2

      Knowing this first, that there shall come in the LAST DAYS SCOFFERS, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby THE WORLD THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

      That which hath been is that which shall be; and that which hath been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there a thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been long ago, IN THE AGES THAT WERE BEFORE US. There is no remembrance of the former generations ; neither shall there be any remembrance of the latter generations that are to come, among those that shall come after. ECCLESIASTES 1

      So put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!! :razz:

      • 3AM

        @ Apollo is the A/C and goes against God’s Word …

        Either you go with the millions/billions of years and go with the evolutionists or “smart” ones .., or you go with the thousands of years and believe God’s Word(I think we are in exstra time already). What you need to realize is that the godless believe they are becoming gods, making them anti-Christs in their own right… WHY DO YOU THINK THE WORLD IS BEING COVERNED THE WAY IT IS?..

        Now,I am not saying the world is 6000 years old. I believe it to be a couple of years older than that.(exstra time) What is God’s number? When is His Sabbath day? What number is our world population creaping towards? How many plagues at the end of time?

        To have a “socialistic/nazzi type society,..” and make no mistake… This is what tne new world order is about. THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF GOD IN SOCIETY.

        THE 1ST LIE ON THIS EARTH IS THE 1 STILL BEING BELIEVED TO THIS DAY. Gen 3:4 & 5 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

        The “smart” ones just need to make it “truth” by stuffing it down childrens’ thoats without TRUTH as opposition, denying them the right to choose for themselves. ONE-SIDED VERRY, VVERRYY LLOOONNNGGG history with not one single shred of evidence to back it up with,.. and by the way, it’s still called a “theory.” One has to believe it which makes it a religion: a FALSE ONE none the less.

        … and NO to (Strongs 01961)!!! And the earth WAS without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters…JUST LIKE IT DID AFTER THE FLOOD before Nimrod stood up and rebelled the way lucifer did in heaven(Atlas ring any bells?)

        Why do you think such a long and tedious family history was given by God in Genesis???

        ……….To prove that we, as the pinnicle of evolution, not created in God’s image… (and animals for that matter), over billions and billions of years can manage to screw up our own habitat in a couple of hundred???????????????????????????

        SOMEBODY NEEDS TO WAKE UP !!!

        Rather start focussing on which day God wants us to worship Him and remember where we came from. IT AINT SUNDAY SWEETHEART. Does the whole world keep it as a sabbath? Have you heard about blue laws?

        First Day Observance, pp. 17, 19.”The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change.”
        “It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labour. They obeted the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of the week.” – Professor James C. Moffat, DD., Professor of Church History at Princeton.; from The Church in Scotland, pp140.
        Dr. Hefele, Concilliengesch 3, 512, sec. 362 about the Council of Liftinae, Belgium AD 745 (attended by Boniface)- “The third allocution of this council warns against the observance of the Sabbath, referring to the decree of the council of Laodicea”
        Dr. Hefele, Concilliengesch 4, 346-352, sec 478 quoting Pope Nicholas I answer to a question from Bogaris the prince of Bulgaria- “One is to cease from work on Sunday, but not also on the Sabbath” /On the subject of the same letter- “The head of the Greek Church , offended at the interference of the papacy, declared the Pope ex-communicated”- Truth Triumphant pp 232
        “They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a sabbatical manner…These things Margaret abolished” – A History of Scotland from the Roman Occupation, speaking of Queen Margaret’s (a Catholic) decree.
        “During the first crusade, Pope Urban II decreed at the council of Clermont (AD 1095) that the Sabbath be set aside in hounour of the Virgin Mary.”- History of the Sabbath p 672
        “There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales universally until AD 1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David’s. The old Welsh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places.” – Lewis, Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America, Vol 1, p 29
        Josephus , first century Historian, says : “There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!” M’Clathie, Notes and Queries on China and Japan. (edited by Dennys),Vol.4, Nos. 7,8, p.100.
        “It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west..For in the church of Millaine [Milan];.. it seemes the Saturday was held in farre esteeme ..Not that the Easterne churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme [Judaism]; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus [Jesus] Christ the Lord of the Sabbath.” , Dr. Heylyn’s- History of the Sabbath Part 2, pp. 73,74, London: 1636
        “The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;..therefore the Christians for a long time together, did keep their conventions on the Sabbath, in which some portion of the Law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council.” The Whole Works of Jeremey Taylor, Vol. IX, p416 (R. Heber’s Edition, Vol.XII, p.416)
        “The gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath.” Gieseler’s Church History, Vol.1, ch.2, par.30, p.93.
        “The first matter concerned a keeping holy of Saturday. It had come to the earth of the archbishop that people in different places of the kingdom had ventured the keeping holy of Saturday. It is strictly forbidden- it is stated- in the Church-Law, for any one to keep or adopt holy-days. outside of those which the pope,archbishop, or bishops appoint.” – speaking of the Church Council held at Bergen, Norway in the year 1435, The History of the Norwegian Church under Catholicism, R. Keyser, Vol II, p 488. Oslo: 1858.
        “It will surely be far safer to observe the seventh day, according to express commandment of God, than on the authority of mere human conjecture to adopt the first.”- Jihn Milton, Sab. Lit. pp 46-54.
        “Thus we see Dan. 7 , 25, fulfilled, the little horn changing ‘times and laws’. Therefore it appears to me that all who keep the first day for the Sabbath are Pope’s Sunday-keepers and God’s Sabbath-breakers.”- American Elder T.M. Preble, Feb 13 1845.
        “Centuries of the Christian era passed away before Sunday was observed by the Christian church as a sabbath. History does not furnish us with a single proof or indication that it was at any time so observed previous to the sabbatical edict of Constantine in A.D. 321″ [Wm Dornville: Examination of Six Texts]
        “They know little who do not know that the ancient Sabbath remained and was observed by the Eastern churches three hundred years after our Savior’s passion” [Prof. Brerewood: Treatise on the Sabbath]
        “There is no word, no hint in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday … into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters” [Canon Eyton: The Ten Commandments]
        “Take which you will, either the Fathers or the moderns, and we shall find no Lord’s Day instituted by any apostolical mandate, no Sabbath set on foot by them on the first day of the week” [P. Heylyn: History of the Sabbath]
        “… the transference to [Sunday] of the sabbatical obligation established by the promulgation of the 4th commandment has no basis whatever either in Holy Scripture or in Christian antiquity” [Wm Smith: Dictionary of Christian Antiquity]
        “It is quite clear that however devotedly we may spend Sunday we am to keeping the Sabbath .. the Sabbath was founded on a specific divine command. We can plead no such command for the observance of Sunday” [R W Dale: The Ten Commandments]
        “In the interval between the days of apostles and the conversion of Constantine [4th. cent.] the Christian commonwealth changed its aspect… Rites and ceremonies of which neither Paul nor Peter ever heard crept into use then claimed the rank of divine institutions.” [Dr Killen: The Ancient Church]
        “The seventh-day Sabbath was solemnized [i.e. observed] by Christ, the Apostles and the primitive Christians – until the Council of Laodicea did, in a manner, quite abolish the observance of it. The Council (A.D. 364) first settled the observance of the Lord’s Day” [Wm Prynne: Dissertations on the Lord's Day. Prynne was a 17th century Puritan]
        “Since the institution of the Sabbath at the close of creation…there has been an unbroken line of God-loving men who have kept the seventh day of the week…. In the Western Church the seventh day continued to be observed quite generally till the fifth century.” [Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge]
        Coltheart’s original version gratefully obtained from http://www.tagnet.org/llt/sabcen.htm 20th Century Roman Catholic and Protestant Confessions about Sunday Observance American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh “The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament.” Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890 -From J.F. Coltheart

        YOU MIGHT AS WELL CHANGE YOUR PROFILE PIC TO A CATHOLIC FLAG OR THE POPE’S MITRE OR SOMETHING, but please do keep the name.

        Godbless

        • Apollo is the A/C

          Look, the Bible interprets itself. When Solomon says nothing is new, it’s because everything we are developing now was developed before and destroyed by God. When the Bible says ALL men were destroyed off the Earth then they were. Your argument falls short and your argument is with Scripture. When they find Hammers imbedded in Pure Chucks of coal – it Proves the Bible accurate and not the other way around. Study

        • Apollo is the A/C

          The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
          Strong’s Number: 01961
          Original Word Word Origin
          hyh a primitive root [compare (01933)]
          Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
          Hayah TWOT – 491
          Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
          haw-yaw Verb

          Definition
          to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
          (Qal)
          —– 1a
          to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass 1a
          TO COME TO PASS, TO COME ABOUT

          King James Word Usage – Total: 75
          was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become, pertained, better for thee

        • 3AM

          @ the Roman Catholic System is the anti-Christ

          “You think Christians that actually study their Bibles think the Earth is 6000 years old? Yes? Well, try talking to one that actually knows what the Word of God really says.”

          … I don’t get where you are going with this… Yet you seem to believe in reincarnation from the first couple of spoken words(by God) I might add?.. You sound like JP2 who said that the book of Genesis is utter nonsense.

          “When they find Hammers imbedded in Pure Chucks of coal – it Proves the Bible accurate and not the other way around.” ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT MINERALS CANNOT FORM QUICKLY UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS? I believe that our oil deposits are the direct result of God’s flood in Noah’s time.

          I see stalactites starting to form under a bridge on my way to work. AM I NOW TO BELIEVE THAT THAT MAKES THE BRIDGE MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD?..

          “When the Bible says ALL men were destroyed off the Earth then they were.” Fancy that!…MAYBE YOU NEED TO STOP SPENDING SO MUCH TIME IN THE BIBLE AND MORE TIME ON YOUR KNEES PRAYING FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT TO OPEN UP THE BIBLE FOR YOU? The only reason I say this is because I don’t think you see the Bible for what it actually is. EVERY SINGLE STORY (by this I don’t mean fairy tale) shows the plan of salvation anti-typically. IT IS THE LIVING WORD OF GOD THROUGH THE CENTURIES TO ALL PEOPLE THAT EVER WALKED THIS EARTH!!! Thus, in the beginning God… AND NOT IN THE BEGINNING TIME.

          If you studied the Bible and you are the one to talk to (your words, not mine)… Stop treating it like your medical dissertation. ITS NOT!

          P.S. I took the liberty of changing your name for you… You don’t have to keep it if you don’t like it… I ONLY DID SO BECAUSE THE BIBLE IDENTIFIES THE ANTI-CHRIST AS SUCH, but don’t take my word for it…

          JUST APPROACH YOUR BIBLE STUDIES DIFFERENTLY!..

    • Pix

      We are still in an ice age, you mean the current interglacial period. The problem is the bible was created in the 4th – 5th century CE. So the question of why or when our current interglacial period started isn’t in the bible is a moot point. To put that into perspective below is a short historical time line with approximate dates.

      15’000 BCE Start of current interglacial. Rapid melt, rapid sea level rise.

      9’000 BCE Ice melt slowed, sea level rise 1 – 3 mm per year… ongoing.

      1’300 BCE First mono deity religion invented by Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep IV.

      1’100 BCE Fleeing Egyptian slaves name themselves Israel, settle in Palestine.

      597 BCE Captive in Babylon where they met and included the Sumerian creation epic, Genesis.

      530 BCE Released from Babylon slavery by Persian/Iranian King Cyrus the Great. Laws introduced. 2nd temple period.

      70 CE Israel wiped off face of Earth by Rome. End of 2nd temple period

      325 CE Roman emperor Constantine instigates council of Nicea to amalgamate pagan cults into an organised religion. Christianity.

      400 CE Oldest Christian bible. Greek.

    • Anonymous

      No, it took millions of years. God created and designed everything but the earth is billions of years old. The Antarctic ice sheet alone has 100,000 discernible layers. The earth is old. It’s not 7,000 or so years old.

      • 3AM

        Those discernibly layers you are talking about in the ice isn’t like the yearrings one finds on trees, when there is a period of growth and then not, once a year…

        How long does it take an ice cube to form in your freezer?..and when you take it out, how long for it to melt? Those layers get formed during temperature fluctuations on a weekly or even daily basis…

        Fact is that God says that in those days it did not rain on the earth and the fact that He says that the last days,.. it will be like those in the time of Noah, when the ark’s door was closed by an angel and only 8 got in… 144 000 doesn’t sound that bad out of 7 or so trillion…

        Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

        Ex 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Ex. 16.23-30 ; 31.12-14
        Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
        but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, Ex. 23.12 ; 31.15 ; 34.21 ; 35.2 · Lev. 23.3 thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
        for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

        Ex 31:15-18 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
        Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
        It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
        And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

        GOD’S SABBATH IS NOT IMPORTANT HEY? WE CAN WORSHIP GOD WHICHEVER WAY WE PLEASE (like Kane), ON ANY DAY WE CHOOSE FIT…

        Doesn’t the R.C.C. call herself the mother of all other churches? Is the there maybe a possibility that all other churches and faiths, for that matter, are running back home to mama with papa as the replacement of Jesus Christ here on earth?

        DID SHE THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS?… Find the only remaining (true) protestant church, saying it like it is and that is not interested in ecumenism with Rome as the mother. I WOULD SAY THAT THAT IS A GOOD PLACE TO START…

        • Pix

          “Ex 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy”

          What day would that be?

          Sunday = Sun’s day
          Monday= Moon’s day
          Tuesday = The god Tue’s day
          Wednesday = The god Woten’s day
          Thursday = The god Thor’s day
          Friday = The god Frey’s day
          Saturday = Saturnalian day.

          Sorry, no room at the inn. :lol:

        • 3AM

          God spoke before we did… It’s in the devil’s nature to steal, lie and murder…

          Do you seriously think that it makes a difference calling a spade a shovel after highjacking it?

          WHY IS A WEEK STILL A WEEK TODAY?.. on what basis? Get a printed or promotional calendar and count for yourself when the seventh day is, although recently they have changed the look of most of these. It used to be red in the left column with a “S”… and in the far right column, red with a “S”

          If you are not yet a Catholic (or believe for that matter), you will soon be forced to join their ranks and worship their god i.e. lucifer.., along with the Hindu’s, Buddists, Muslims, apostate Christians, Snake worshippers, etc.,etc… THEY EVEN WANT ATHEISTS to join their proceedings.

          I hope that you are getting excited!!!..,and yet again, I would want you to take a look at the book,”The Two Babylons” by Alexander Hislop.

          I KNOW YOU WON’T READ IT, BUT JUST MAYBE, YOU WILL BELIEVE THAT IT EXISTS…

          Take care now.., Bye-bye then.

    • Mr A Hole - PHD, BSE, HN51, ADHD hons. DVT HIV

      I would rather eat my own faeces than join any of your Churchs. Filth peddling idiots, holding up the evolution of mankind.

      And which ice age you numpty? There have been many.

    • Pix

      3AM “WHY IS A WEEK STILL A WEEK TODAY?.. on what basis? ”

      Are you really that uneducated? Like a lot elements claimed by Judaism it actually originates from the ancient Sumerians. The Israelites picked it up when they were captives in Babylon c 500 BCE, along with the Sumerian creation epic the Israelites also claimed as their own, aka Genesis. Genesis is actually only a tiny fragment of a much larger story. And their laws given to them by God, aka King Cyrus the Great of Persia. They guy who freed slaves where ever he went including the captive Israelites in Babylon. He also invented basic human rights and gave them their basic laws.

      The Roman calender had 8 days, but took up the Sumerian 7 day one when Christianity was invented in the 4th – 5th century CE.

      • 3AM

        .., but my God died on a cross yesterday, about 1986 years ago.., AND HE ROSE UP OUT OF DEATH…
        The Lifegiver and Creator of you, me, time and space and everything it includes.., defeated death… HIS GRAVE IS EMPTY!..

        Apparently you are NOT an atheist, BUT A HUMANIST…”And their laws given to them by God, aka King Cyrus the Great of Persia.” Where is this “gOD” you speak of now?..BONES IN A GRAVE!.. One does not have to get educated to know that one drowning (dead) man, cannot save another drowning man…DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMON SENSE?.. Unfortunately money can’t buy this at a fancy institution…

        THIS,”The Roman calender had 8 days, but took up the Sumerian 7 day one when Christianity was invented in the 4th – 5th century CE.”my friend, is a NONSENSICAL argument. Today’s caesar is called the pope and YES.., HE THINKS THAT HE IS ANOTHER gOD, but he is not the Creator, is he now?.. I SHOWED ABOVE HOW HE WOULD THINK TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS, did I not?..

        “Sorry, no room at the inn. :lol: ” This probably would have been Jesus’ reply to you, if you would have been able to make it to heaven…

        The other thing about atheists is that neither does God believe in them…Use that education of yours and think about that for a while…

        I PRAY THAT YOU WOULD SEE THE LIGHT SOMEDAY, before it is too late for you.
        Godbless

        • Mr A Hole - PHD, BSE, HN51, ADHD hons. DVT HIV

          Godbless is actually a curse to a humanist or atheist. So I presume you are an anti human.

          If your version of god doesn’t believe in us, how come your bible says we are all ‘gods’ children?

          Every day you fairytale believing robots are being pulled apart and exposed for the trailhead children you are.

          No room in the inn!!! Lol that comment was hilarious. As I for one wouldn’t want to be in an inn with the likes of Hitler, past popes, royals, Catholic child abusers, military leaders responsible for murders, crusade knights and all the other filth who claim religion told them to behave like animals.

          What your describing is a cesspit, full of the scum no one else but tour religion would have.

          When you Joe public get there, you will be raped, tortured, mentally abused and treated like a slave.

          Much like today’s victims of ‘religious’ men and women.

          I shall simply.cease to exist when I die and am looking forward to nothing. Death is not reason for living. Living is the reason for death.

          Even a 4 yr old can grasp that concept.

          Ps – can you tell your god to stop spraying the skies please. He’s killing all the pollinating insects.

          Oh yes I forgot, it’s his will. I put it to you that you are indeed….

          A fool in need of educating properly, without the fear of punishment in death.

          Muppet.

        • 3AM

          Did not mean to offend you my friend… I sense a lot of bitterness here and it is true that we are all God’s children, but we have to break with our sinful ways and accept Him as our Saviour and King…Kingdoms are kingdoms because law and order exists therein.

          Jesus was sent to earth by His Father, to die for us so that we may LIVE.., because the wages of sin is death and the definition of sin is the transgression of His Law… Sadly though, a penalty needs to be paid in blood. Because the life is in the blood.

          This is what the Sanctuary here on earth was all about…(blood of goats and lambs) It was replica if you will, of the Sanctuary in heaven which was/is pitched by God, and not man.

          JESUS BECAME THE SLAUGHTERED LAMB OF GOD FOR US, SO THAT WE CAN (if we choose), BE SAVED BY HIS GRACE AND NEVER AGAIN SEE DEATH. WHY WOULD YOU NEED HIS GRACE IF HIS LAW DOES NOT STAND ANYMORE???… GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING AND NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD. (someone else took this role)

          It is not the sinner that GOD HATES.., its the SIN!!!

          GOD is a consuming fire to sin. So if we choose to cling to our sin… Guess what???…

        • Mr A Hole - PHD, BSE, HN51, ADHD hons. DVT HIV

          So let’s hear your defense on the acts of evil carried out in your gods name. I respect.your peacefullness, but come on, whats the defence, another of God’s wills. How much longer will the evil of human nature hide behind a mythical fairytale.

    • 3AM

      What we MUST understand is that the Bible was not given us as proof of God’s existence, but rather as fact. God does not need to defend His position as Creator because He is the only God…

      Love can’t be pre-programmed… Love can only “exist” as the result of freedom of choice. IF WE OBEYED HIS COMMANDMENTS AND KEPT THEM, LAW ENFORCEMENT(police) WOULD BE REDUNDANT.

      We chose the kind of world we live in today!!!

      P.S. I need to apologise for a mistake I made above concerning the date of Jesus’ crucifiction…

      HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN ON THURSDAY, 1986 YEARS AGO..,
      He is risen non-the-less AND IS COMING BACK SOON!!!

    • 3AM

      I did some more research and found that I was wrong yet again concerning the date and it is a documented fact that Jesus was crcified in the year 31… In other words, satan lost the plot 1982 years ago…

      I WILL NOW LEAVE IT AT THAT…

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