Judgment of the United States and the 7 year covenant by Bear049
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Daniel 9:27 is the 3 1/2 year ministry of Jesus Christ. He has 7 years to put into effect the New Contract with The Whole House of Israel. He was killed in the middle of the week, a year for a day thus 3 1/2 years, and by the way He was killed in mid week on a Wednesday.
His sacrifice fulfilled the requirement for a sacrifice. No animal sacrifice is necessary from that moment on.
He still has the 2nd half of His ministry to complete which will put into effect the New Contract.
before the 1000 year reign begins, Christ will take a 3 1/2 year period to fulfill His ministry at the end of which the Government of God will be in total control of the entire earth.
“…and by the way He was killed in mid week on a Wednesday.”
Very unlikely, Truthseeker. There are no day names in the Biblical Calendar. There is also no prevailing correspondence between the Biblical Calendar (which is NOT the modern Jewish Calendar) and the Roman Gregorian Calendar from one year to the next. Therefore, there is only one chance in seven that Messiah was crucified on a Wednesday.
“His sacrifice fulfilled the requirement for a sacrifice. No animal sacrifice is necessary from that moment on.”
This is not what the Apostle Paul said. Paul said that continuing sacrifice for SIN had been fulfilled once and for all time. That leaves MANY other forms of animal sacrifice, for example: The whole burnt offering, the heave offering, the thank offering, the praise offering, the daily offerings (morning and evening), the freewill offering, etc. etc. There is nothing written in the entirety of the Scriptures which would suggest to us that ALL animal sacrifice has been brought to a finish by Messiah’s perfect self-sacrifice for sin.
Beef supreme,
The need to demonstrate that sin demands the death penalty with an animal sacrifice was fulfilled by Christ . An Animal never could cover the debt it only pointed to the need and that need was fully covered by Christ.
Christ and the Apostles never taught animal sacrifice, Christians do not offer animal sacrifice only the Jews continued it.
The sacrifice now required is a total surrender of your personal will to the WILL of the Father.
The term is meek. Meekness is a complete and total sacrifice of your will to God’s will.
Remember the statement of Jesus Christ ‘Not my will but yours”. Christ was the meekest person that ever walked on earth, up to Christ it was Moses who was a type of Christ.
Daniel says “in the midst of the week” I named it as Wednesday, a week is 7 days the midst of the week is the 4th day. By our calendar that is Wednesday.
The only sign Christ gave that He is the Son of God is the sign of Jonas. Matthew 12: 39, 40.
“so shall the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth”
Christ had to be in the grave for 72 hours, a day is 12 hours per Christ. 6 X 12.
God’s day begin at evening or sundown.
He was put in to the grave before 6 PM on the 4th day, our Wednesday, and was resurrected before 6 PM on the 7th day, the Sabbath. Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. The first day was never foretold to be any thing special, all days are numbers only the Sabbath is a named day.
Please show me 3 days and 3 nights from Friday (6th day) night to Sunday morning (1st day).
That is only two nights and one day.
A Sunday morning resurrection (1st day of the week) was given to so called Christianity by the catholic church.
If you will read Luke 23: 53 – 56 you will see they took Christ body down and put it in the grave on what they called the preparation day, John 19: 31 says for that day was a High Day.
Christ was killed on the preparation day for the Feast of unleavened Bread, a High Holy Day, and not the 7th day Sabbath.
This is easy to prove.
Good. Now we can isolate a few points where I disagree with your scriptural detective work. (Most of your exegesis I do agree with, by the way. I admire your strong understanding of the Word and I can appreciate the time well-spent you have invested in your studies.) You wrote:
“Christ and the Apostles never taught animal sacrifice, Christians do not offer animal sacrifice only the Jews continued it.”
The Apostles continued to attend sacrificial feasts and offerings both during and after the time of Messiah. Paul was ordered to ‘be at charges’ for the fellows he went to the Temple with in the Book of Acts. Paul went to the Temple both to offer sacrifice (he paid for the animals to be sacrificed) and to renew his ritual cleanliness – as well as to be seen doing so by the Jews who were accusing him of teaching against the Law of Moses. Moreover, it cannot be denied that the Apostles continued to observe the Passover. The Passover includes animal sacrifice. If it is your contention that the Passover was observed by the Disciples without the required sacrifice, then it would be incumbent upon you to provide evidence from the texts to support such a claim. We are given strict instructions on how to observe the event of the Passover, and for as long as the Temple remained standing, these instructions included animal sacrifice. There is nothing in Scripture to indicate that the Disciples and the Apostles abstained from animal sacrifice, or that they did not practice it for any reason. Quite the opposite is true. None of this diminishes anything from the sacrifice of will which you describe. It isn’t one or the other – it’s both. The only thing which prevents us from continued animal sacrifice to this day is the fact that there is no priesthood and no Temple at which to make our offerings.
“God’s day begin at evening or sundown.”
This is not possible. Messiah has said that there are twelve hours in a day. Does the day therefore begin when the twelve hours are completed? The day begins immediately following the morning. The day and the night are made separate from one another. The night is not a part of the day. Genesis 1 clearly states:
Elohim did His work for the DAY. Then there came to be evening. Then there came to be morning. This concluded His performance and observance of the first day of creation.
The evening and the morning separate the day from the night. Evening and morning are not a part of the day – nor are they a part of the night. The day begins when the sun is completely visible above the horizon, being entirely free from obscurity by the land or the sea. As the sun sets, the moment a portion of it becomes obscured by the land or the sea, it becomes evening and remains evening until the last visible light of the sun retreats to the darkness. Then it is night. Then comes morning. Thus “the evening and the morning were the first day.” This does not mean that the day begins in the evening – which is an absurdity taught to us by the rabbis, who love to turn everything upside-down because they have their eyes on Ba’al rather than on YHWH.
“Please show me 3 days and 3 nights from Friday (6th day) night to Sunday morning (1st day). That is only two nights and one day.”
There isn’t anything in the Greek New Testament to require a first day of the week resurrection. The term ‘mia ton sabbaton’ is what is translated into English as ‘day one of the week.’ This is an irresponsible translation. ‘Mia ton sabbaton’ means ‘one to the sabbatons.’ There is a difference, both in Hebrew and in Greek, between a Sabbath and a sabbaton. A sabbaton is a high day, a holy convocation, during which no work may be done, save for cooking and food preparation for the event. On a Sabbath, in addition to a prohibition against work, no food preparation may be performed. ‘Mia ton sabaton’ does not and cannot mean ‘first day’ or ‘day one of the week. The matter of the Biblical Calendar, in conjunction with the flawed rendering of ‘mia ton sabbaton’ into English, means that there is no reason at all to presume that Messiah was crucified on either ‘Wednesday’ or ‘Friday.’ The fact is that we do not know when He died, other than that He died in the middle of the Hebrew ‘shabua’ (a period of seven, translated as ‘week’). And while Messiah did die in the middle of the shabua, this is no reason to state that He died on a Wednesday. The two are the same only once in each seven year period.
PS –
“The evening and the morning were the first day” is another flawed translation. A more thorough translation of the thought expressed in the Hebrew would be:
There came to be evening and there came to be morning; DAY ONE.
beef,
its late for me, I am brain dead
I will work on your rebuttal tomorrow. You too have studied, I hope to at least prove a few points to you, God willing.
Think of this as a conversation — and not as a debate.
Once we get beyond the Ten Commandments, there isn’t much room for certainty in any of this. Your brother Beef tries to remain as free from dogma as possible, and willing to explore as many views and interpretations as he can. We both know Who to rely on for our answers. But it is a process. Ready whenever you are.
Beef,
First I want to complement you, out of many I have traded thoughts with you seem to read every word and with honest intent respond. Refreshing! Thank you.
And second – this comment, if you ask 100 folks on BIN for their thoughts on a Biblical doctrine you will get 110 different answers. My point; with out everyone having the Fathers Holy Spirit in them there is not a chance of reaching even 25% agreement.
So – if you and I agree on 50% that will be good day and as you say great conversation.
I will address your comments out of order, but hopefully get to them all.
First let’s address when God’s day begins. Since the Sabbath is ‘THE’ Day lets look at it.
Ask any Jew when the Sabbath begins and they must quit work and the response will be at sundown. So God begins His Sabbath Day at sundown. For proof from the Bible as to when a day begins read what was said when they needed to take Christ down from the stake.
A quick note, I will only write out a scripture if I think it is very necessary, you know scripture so why write it? Other wise I will just paraphrase it.
Christ died in the afternoon at 3 PM on the 14th of Nisan and because the High Holy Day of the first day (the 15th) of The Feast of Unleavened Bread approached, the Jews wanted to get Christ and the others in the ground before the High Sabbath began. They had until sundown to do so, the 14th was the preparation day and the 15th was the High Day, the 14th ended at sundown and the 15th began at sundown. Right after sundown on the 15th was the Passover meal.
Yes this was a High Day but still a day of the week and not the 7th day Sabbath and days still began and ended at sundown. God’s days begin in darkness and move towards the Light.
The term ‘evening’ can mean after 12 noon up to 6 PM or sundown. In Exodus 12: 6 they are told to kill the Passover Lamb in the evening, according to Josephus the Lambs were slaughter from the 9 hour until the 11th. Is it a coincidence that Christ died at the 9th hour when the slaughter began? He is our Passover Lamb.
When the term day is used many times you have to look at the content of the verse to see if it is talking a 24 hour day or 12 hours of day light. Christ stated that a day, meaning the daylight portion is 12 hours; we know this varies as per location on earth and as to season, but the average is 12 hours. You understand not one word in the Bible is a mistake; every word is there for a reason and it is the correct word although you may have to confirm the translation or different meaning.
I do not know if this is enough for you, it is for me. Even as you brought up in Genesis God says the evening and the morning when talking about His creation day, in light of the above the evening begins the darkness and the morning begins the light. Darkness began each 24 hour day of creation.
Let’s continue the day question with the 3 days and 3 nights Christ said He would be in the grave. Christ’s statement that the sign of Jonas would be the ONLY sign given to mankind that He, Christ, is the Son of God is very important. This must be a fact, this must be true or how can Jesus be the Christ? And He did not say ‘3 days’ in the grave but said two times 3 days and 3 nights, just as Jonas was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the fish! God says what He means and means what He says and changes not.
I felt compelled to understand if this is true so I have spent time on it.
One reference is Bullinger’s Companion Bible Appendix 156, p. 180.
Here is a little of what He says:
“Therefore Wednesday, Nisan 14th {commencing on the Tuesday at sunset} (here again showing when a day starts) was ‘the preparation day’ on which the crucifixion took place — for all 4 Gospels definitely say that this was the day on which the Lord was buried {before Wednesday sunset} because it was the preparation {day} that the bodies should not remain on the cross {Greek: Strauro, meaning an upright pale} on the Sabbath day, ‘for that Sabbath day was a high day’ And therefore, not the ordinary 7th day or weekly Sabbath”
I have done a day by day review of all the scriptures and found this confirms the 3 days and 3 nights Christ said He would be in the grave. It is easy to do so I won’t add it here.
If you understand there were two Sabbaths it clears up any other problems such as the women preparing spices then resting on the Sabbath.
I will do a quick guide”
Wednesday; before 6 PM in the grave
Thursday; High day of Feast of Unleavened bread [one night-one day]
Friday; women buy and prepare spices [one night-one day]
Women rest on the Sabbath
Christ is resurrected before 6 PM on the Sabbath [one night- one day]
Women come back on Sunday morning to apply spices.
And you mentioned in your last sentence about occurring once in 7 years, that factor helps to prove the actual day Christ was offered as our Passover Lamb. Christ died on April 25th 31 AD at 3 PM. This is the only time the 14th of Nisan fell on mid week or a Wednesday for many years either side of 31 AD.
In looking up Bullinger last night I found another interesting article I recommend that will shed further light. It is titled “Was the last supper the Passover meal?” it is found in a site called “here a little there a little”. I know nothing else of this site.
I think I will break this up into two parts. This gives you something to mull over.
I could add, as I am sure you are aware, 100 pages to what is said above. God’s Word can be divided so fine.
Also, I want to add I do not believe after Christ died His disciples kept the Passover but instead kept what has been called “The Lord’s Supper”. Once the fulfillment is here why would you need the shadow any longer? Christ said, as often as you do this, meaning the bread and the wine inferring this is what they now do. I am sure they continued to call it Passover as they do eat not the physical lamb but the wine and the bread.
I hope to get to the balance tonight, let me know what you think my friend.
It is true that the boars of BIN can be some muddy waters to swim in. It is doubtful you will find a more tangled web of doctrine and dogma anywhere. Navigating these channels can be tricky and tiring, but it is good practice. We can hone our Swords against the abrasive vitriol of the enemy’s hatred for us here in relative safety. It’s actually a good ‘school’ for testing doctrine and for learning patience.
It may be a hindrance rather than a help to take our guidance from the Jews who practice what the rabbis preach. The rabbis claim for themselves the right to CHANGE TORAH from one generation to the next – a very problematic stance for them to take, considering the often repeated injunction in the Scriptures to NEVER change what has been spoken at the mouth of YHWH. Therefore, let us concern ourselves solely with what Scripture has to say, and ignore (for the moment) the teachings of the rabbis and of commentators like Josephus.
Messiah said: “Are there not twelve hours in a day?”
Now then, do we take Him at His word? This means that the hour is flexible. Just as the length of the day changes according to the seasons, so too the length of the hour must change. Nowhere in Scripture are we shown a rigid 60 minute hour. Therefore, if Messiah’s words be true, then the length of the hour is as flexible as the length of the day.
Nowhere in Scripture is there any Instruction on beginning the day in the evening. There is one Instruction that the Sabbath of the Feast of Atonement is to be reckoned from evening unto evening. This is the only time such an Instruction is given, and the Feast of Atonement is no ordinary Sabbath, because we are commanded to afflict our beings on that day, rather than rest and be at peace. The Sabbath of the Feast of Atonement is unique, and so too is the Instruction to observe that particular Sabbath from evening until evening. All of the other Sabbath Days are reckoned from the beginning to the end of the day, which is from when the sun is fully above the horizon until it is ready to descend below.
What YHWH separates, let no man join together.
YHWH has separated the day from the night – and He separated the light from the darkness. This is very important for us to consider and to comprehend. There can be no communion between light and darkness.
The term ‘day’ does not refer to a 24 hour period; it refers only to the daylight portion of that period. The term ‘day’ is also used to describe much longer, prophetic periods as well, as we know.
Does a day of God begin in the darkness? Where He is, there is unapproachable light. He is Light, and there is no darkness in Him. Thus, when the worlds were created, they were created in light. Darkness came to be AFTER. The opening lines of Be’reyshith (This is the Hebrew translated as ‘Genesis’, when in tactual fact in means simply, ‘In The Beginning’) are:
In the beginning Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth. (Period. End. New sentence, new thought…)
And the Earth CAME TO BE without form and void, and DARKNESS was upon the face of the תְהוֹם (ABYSS)…
This passage contains nothing at all about the Heavens and the Earth being created in darkness. Rather, we can see from a surface reading of these verses that darkness CAME TO BE. Darkness at first WAS NOT. Where the Most High is, there also is unapproachable light.
Imagine if you had never heard of the Jews counting their time by beginning the day in the evening. Then ask any child when the day begins. And look at the verses again. Because there is nothing anywhere in Scripture which should cause us to imagine that the day begins at night. This is Babylonian timekeeping. And it was ancient Babylon, in fact, from where the Pharisees took the concept of a day that begins at night.
The Hasmonean Revolt removed the legitimate Temple authority (the sons of Zadok, the Zadokites, in Hebrew the plural ‘Tsadokim’; and singular ‘Tsadoki’: The Sadducees) from power, and replaced them with the illegitimate power, the Pharisees. The sons of Zadok were the keepers of the Temple by the authority of the Most High, being direct bloodline descendants of Aaron. During the time of the Sadducees’ government of the Temple, the Hebrews observed the Biblical Calendar of YHWH. This Calendar is much more solar oriented than the Jewish lunar calendar, but this ‘solar’ Calendar is in fact a ‘heptadic’ or ‘septenary’ Calendar, meaning that it is metered by recurring sets of seven. The ‘shabua’ is seven days, the Jubilees are sets of 49 years (seven sevens), etc. The Jubilee is celebrated on the fiftieth year, which is also the first in a new series of sevens, and is the first year of the following Jubilee. This Calendar is described for us in great detail in the First Book of Enoch. Once this Calendar is rightly understood, the pattern it provides lays over top of the Books of Moses and the Prophets in perfect synchronicity. This IS the Calendar of the Scriptures. The lunar calendar followed by the rabbis (modern day Pharisees) with the days which begin at night and the year which begins in the dark days of autumn, is an OPPOSITE of the Biblical Calendar. In Exodus, YHWH tells Moses that the SPRING shall be the beginning of the year for the Israelites – yet the Jews observe Rosh Hashanah (the New Year) in the fall. They do everything backwards. Follow their lead at your peril.
Now at the time of the Passover, when Messiah was crucified, the disciples and the followers of Messiah were NOT FOLLOWING THE SAME CALENDAR as the Temple authorities. This is made evident by the time-line discrepancies between the Synoptic Gospels.
According to the Instruction (the Torah) of YHWH the Most High, the day begins after morning, the year begins in the spring, and the Heavens and the Earth were created in LIGHT, and not in darkness. The work of YHWH Elohim, and of His Son our Messiah, begins and ends in Light. To suggest that Their work begins and ends in darkness is anathema to the entire message of the written Word.
Now – did the Apostles continue to keep the Passover after Messiah? The Old Testament makes it very clear that the Passover Instructions were intended to be forever. But even in the New Testament, we see perfectly visible evidence of the Passover being kept after Messiah:
1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge our therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Messiah our Passover is sacrificed for us:
8. Therefore LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with the old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of Sincerity and Truth.
The Apostle Paul teaches to keep the Passover. The Torah makes it certain that the feast is forever. Because Messiah has ‘fulfilled’ the shadow is no reason to imagine that we are no longer meant to observe this Eternal Feast.