Two Witnesses
Controversy about the Two Witnesses in the book of Revelations.
Anybody interested to get to know more about the two witnesses mentioned in Rev. 11 will soon enough find out about the controversy that exists about these two witnesses. An analysis of the different pages that come up in a search reveal certain “Christian” belief systems or doctrines, mainly Futurism, Preterismand Historicism.
Are these controversies about end time interpretations necessary?
Yashua said: “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.” Lk.12
Paul said: No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 1Cor.11:18
John, talking about many antichrists in the last days, said: “… but they went out (from us), that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” 1Jn.2:19
So this controversy amongst those who call themselves “Christians” actually serves to cleanse the elected body from all impurities that have accumulated during the years of waiting for Messiah to return. It serves to kick us into the 5th gear of vigilance against false teachings, makes us look once more at ourselves in the light of the Truth, makes us delve deeper into Scripture to find the Truth.
Who are the two witnesses?
It is absolutely amazing to see the many versions of who those may be. Amongst those many versions I only found one site which delved deeply into Scripture to come to a conclusion. All of the others just pick out those Scripture pieces which fit their doctrine and ignore the rest.
I’m not here to spoon feed or influence you, so I won’t give specific references. Those of you who really feel the need to know the answer to this question, can and will find it. Scripture explains itself.
Is their physical appearance a prerequisite before the “end”?
There are many that answer “yes” to this question, especially futurists.
Scripture says: ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ Lk.16:31
Today we can say: If they do not listen to the witnesses of the Messiah, they will not be convinced even if Enoch, Moses, Elijah and John would appear together.
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There is and interesting scripture in Ecclesiastes which is almost never mentioned.
1:9, The thing that hath been it is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done, and there is no new thing under the sun.”
God is saying what I have done before I will do again. The way God performs things will always be the same.
When the House of Israel was taken into captivity the second time it was by the Assyrians, for the third and final time into captivity it will again be the Assyrians.
When Christ brought the children of Israel out of captivity the first time He used two brothers of the tribe of Levi to be the two witnesses to demand from Pharaoh, Let My people go! these two witnesses called down plagues on Egypt and when freed by Christ when He commanded the first born be killed Moses and Aaron brought the children out of sin (Egypt) to the promised land, physical Israel to the physical promised land.
When Christ returns the children of Israel will again be in captivity, the two witnesses of Revelation will stand before the Beast Power crying out Let My people Go! and they also will call down plagues. The two witnesses will just like Moses and Aaron deliver the spiritual children of Israel (the physical but converted Great Multitude) to the spiritual promised land—-
The Kingdom of God. As in the days of Moses, Christ will free the captives from slavery at His return.
There will be a 2nd Exodus to Jerusalem, this time the remnant of the whole House of Israel will be given the promised land as was promised to Abraham long ago.
What has been will be! First the physical then the spiritual. God will return Israel to the promised land exactly as it was done before. “I change Not”
If God were not the same today as yesterday and tomorrow — how could you tell what God has done? Repeating the same patterns shows God’s Hand is in it.
@Truthseeker: Thanks for explaining your interpretation of the 2 witnesses’ task. The variety of individual interpretations is fascinating to see. Of course you would also be able to explain why a war will be necessary to fight against two individuals as well as when they will deliver the great multitude to the spiritual promised land.
Desert owl
Here are just a few scriptures that describe the 2nd Exodus, there are many more
Jeremiah 16: 14, 15 This says no one will remember the Exodus of Moses.
Isaiah 11: 11 – 16
Isaiah 35; 1 -10
If you will read Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah and some of the minors you will now see them describing the 3rd captivity and the 2nd exodus.
Christ, when He began His ministry actually explained what He will do at His return.
Luke 3:17 -19, this is the quote from Isaiah 61: 1
Truthseeker, the Scriptures you quote here do not relate to Rev. 11 in any way, nor do they explain why a war will be fought against two individuals. They also do not support your interpretation of the two witnesses, but only what you call the 2nd exodus.
You are aware of the fact that I did read your articles concerning that, even though I did not comment.
Is it possible to stay with the subject of this article when commenting?
I will not bother you again
Truthseeker, you don’t bother me. I appreciate your interest. Drifting off the subject just is not building up any one, it’s diverting attention from a matter at hand.
Yea god has favorite people and god is jealous too
With respect, the point is, who are the Two Witnesses? Having read your article I am nowhere nearer to knowing the answer.
Not many listen to me, but that doesn’t mean I am one of the Two Witnesses – MANY are called, FEW are chosen.
However, that’s not to say that Spiritual Fire does not come from my mouth when I speak.
@yes2truth Correct. My not providing an answer was done on purpose, as I stated, since each one who wants it, is supposed to delve deeper into Scripture to find it for himself and not just accept what others say or blindly follow human doctrine.
If you don’t have time for lengthy searches and would like me to mention references, just say so and I’ll gladly supply suppose.
Sorry for typo, should be “supply those”
I take the view that we will know when The Two Witnesses have arrived because the whole world will hear them.
The Holy Scriptures do not tell us who they are.
As a final point, no one preceded Yashua Anointed. He is the first and only begotten of The Father.
This means Enoch and Elijah did die. Enoch died when he was only 365 years old and Elijah was taken from view so as to allow Elisha to replace him.
yes2truth: “The Holy Scriptures do not tell us who they are.” I know they do tell us, but most have their eyes closed and their minds clogged with human doctrine and tradition.
Hebrews 11:5
“By faith Enoch was translated THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEE DEATH; and was not found because Elohim had translated him.”
Charles Crosby:
“Enoch and Elijah did die. Enoch died when he was only 365 years old…”
As usual — two sources of information which bear zero resemblance one to the other.
We can always rely the blasphemer Maud Dib, aka Rotting Beef, to turn up like the proverbial bad penny with his pathetic attempts at creating contradictions in the Holy Scriptures:
John 3:13 (KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Heb 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
May I suggest you take another look at Hebrews 11:5 and really analyse what “shall not see death” actually means. The word ‘TAKEN’ being the more important word. This though will mean some free thought on your part and very very difficult for those in bondage to The Law.
@ Desert Owl,
All I see are the opinions of men on this subject, relying upon their own interpretations and trusting upon their own understanding.
The Two Witnesses thing, just like Yashua Anointed’s return to this earth will be seen and heard by all when the time comes.
Best just to leave it at that knowing for sure that both events will occur rather than speculate on things we’re not sure about.
@yes2truth The two witnesses thing, as you call it, is actually seen and heard all over the world right now, but who realizes it? Most everybody has been deceived already, since they listen to and depend on human doctrine.
@ Desert Owl,
You will need to show me at least one or two examples of this phenomena, as I know of none.
All I am aware of is worldwide mainstream Christian Religious lies – the twin non-gospels based upon Vatican Popery and Judaic Protestantism.
@yes2truth You do not trust the witness given you – the twin non-gospels.
How can more be given? No, but even what you have, will be taken away.
Your heart is filled with strife, friction and discord.That is the fire coming
forth from you. The Truth cannot live in that mire, even if you pretend it does.
There is nothing in either of those two doctrines but lies and religious BS.
My heart is filled with The Truth which is a two edged sword and it cuts which ever way I wield it.
You had better have a long hard think about what you’re saying and trying to uphold:
Matt 10:34-36 (KJV) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
Time is running out for you and your wishy-washy fellows, so make haste and repent.
yes2truth Since I wrote what I did in love, there is nothing to repent of. Maybe we are having a misunderstanding here. You are talking about two doctrines – what exactly do mean by that?
Please explain.
If it’s error or not true it can never be love. Your attempt may be well meaning, but if it doesn’t edify the church due to it being incorrect or not helpful, what use is it?
The two doctrines are Vatican Popery and Judaic Protestantism, the latter in all its denominational forms (divisions).
yes2truth thanks for clearing that for me. So we are in agreement after all regarding the Truth of Holy Scripture, on which both of us stand.
I am not sure we are in agreement.
Are you saying that the two doctrines I mentioned are the Two Witnesses?
Doctrines are human interpretations of Scripture, invented to mislead and indoctrinate the people.
NO, the doctrines of those you mentioned do not witness of nor for Yahshua Annointed. They are concoctions of pieces of Scripture put together to fit certain views.
OK and thanks – then we are in agreement.
Yes concoctions, otherwise known as syllogisms or premises in Roman Cult circles designed in order to build their pyramids from the top down – the system of the Nicolaitanes.
Old and the New Testament
Moses and Elijah
3AM – first two or second two? Your comment doesn’t make that clear.
Its appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement. there were old testament saints that did not die they were translated. Maybe it will be two of them, just a thought.
redeemed: there are at least two witnesses negating that- Messiah himself via John (11:25) as well as Paul (1Cor.15:52). Death no longer has power over those who are translated.
Death no longer having power over people, doesn’t mean there will be no death.
desert owl wrote:
“Death no longer has power over those who are translated.”
I do not see this statement corroborated in the Scriptures. There are many possibilities left open which would leave physical death as an event yet future to anyone ‘translated.’ We know that the two witnesses will die. This would fulfill the one appointment with death if either or both of the witnesses have not yet experienced physical death.
BeefSupreme: “I do not see this statement corroborated in the Scriptures.” You yourself quoted Hebrews 11:5 and there are more by Messiah himself. But it’s a separate subject.
“Futurism, Preterism and Historicism.”
What you mean apart from the fact there is nothing historical in the bible. About the only stories that have some relationship with reality are Exodus, where the fleeing Egyptian slaves travel through Saudi Arabia, massacre half their own number on the way on the orders of their Egyptian invented mono deity after a competition on which of their deities was better, where the survivors end up in Palestine. And their later captivity in Babylon. Those events actually happened, but not as described in the bible.
Hi Pix, so you’re still with us and staying true to yourself, I see. Even if all your fighting against the truth seems to be in vain, I respect your tenacity. Just hope you’re not doing it for a financial reward.
“Just hope you’re not doing it for a financial reward.”
It’s either that or Einstein’s definition of insanity.
Personally, I think Pix is paid (or otherwise compensated) to do what Pix does.
http://stevenmcollins.com/html/two_witnesses.html
Blessings in Christ
PaulTarsuss : Interesting read, clearly futuristic approach.
idiots