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The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie – Part 2 – False Evidence

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John Little – OmegaShock.com

 

Many responses to my article on the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie, were very troubling. It showed a desperate desire to hold onto this lie, even to the point of twisting the Bible, itself. And, I am shocked at the lack of evidence that pre-trib supporters have.

 

(Click HERE for Part One) – | – (Click HERE for Part Three)

 

It has taken a week, but I have finally come to realize that the only way that you can support the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie, is to believe that it MUST exist. Only then can you bend the Bible to support your argument.

 

This is exactly how supporters of evolution have been able to explain their theory as fact. According to them, because God cannot be real, evolution must be true.

 

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The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie – Part 2 – False Evidence

 

Doing good research is like building a house. You position properly. You lay a solid foundation, and then – and only then – set up the walls and roof. Without a solid foundation, your research is worse than meaningless. It’s toxic.

 

That’s why it upsets me so much to see such bad evidence put forward for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. There’s no foundational scripture for them to work from. There’s nothing that directly says that the church will be raptured before the coming of the Tribulation of the Antichrist.

 

As I try to understand this Pretrib Lie, it appears to me that their foundation is:

 

God would never allow us to suffer.

 

And, I am incredibly surprised at this idea.

 

With all the horrible suffering that Christians have gone through, down the ages, why would you believe such a foolish idea?

 

I am amazed by this. Really.

 

I Actually WANT To Be Pretrib

 

Please understand that I say this as someone who would love to believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Each and every article that I write on this site is a struggle. This website is a painful effort, that I would rather give up.

 

Furthermore, I don’t have a doctrinal background that encourages loyalty to a post-tribulation rapture idea. My favorite pastors all believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. My home church teaches a pre-tribulation rapture. My church here in Taiwan is the same.

 

I literally have no reason to attack the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie, and every reason to support it – except that I love God and His words, more than anything on this Earth. And, it hurts to see a corrupt interpretation of the Bible.

 

And yes, the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie is a corrupt interpretation of the Bible.

 

That statement will have upset some of you, so let me explain why.

 

The Pillars Of The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory

 

As best as I can understand them, these are the quasi-Biblical ideas that are foundational to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie:

 

  • Imminent Return Of Jesus
     
  • God Has Not Appointed Us Unto Wrath
     
  • The Church Is The Restrainer
     
  • Who Populates The Millennium?

 

Since the controversy is one of TIMING, I have left out those foundational elements that we ALL agree with, such as the fact that there WILL be a Rapture.

 

As far as I have been able to determine, all the other evidence that has been presented to support a pre-tribulation rapture… the feasts, ect. …well, that evidence stands upon those four points.

 

An Honest Appraisal

 

And yes, I am attempting to give an honest appraisal. This is not an attempt to create a ‘straw man‘ that I can then knock down with ease. These really are the foundational principles that I have seen used to support the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie.

 

Furthermore, there are elements to these foundational principles that I agree with. The fact that they are misused doesn’t change their truthfulness.

 

So, let’s take a look at whether these pillars for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie can stand up to a scriptural analysis.

 

Imminent Return Of Jesus

 

The first support, or pillar, of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, is the doctrine of an imminent return of Jesus. The verses that are used to support imminence are these:

 

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. - Matthew 24:36

 

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.  – Matthew 24:42-46

 

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 25:13

 

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

 

So, here’s the question:

 

Do these verses offer sound support for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

 

The answer is no.

 

Just because we cannot know the day or hour of the return of Jesus, does not mean that Jesus MUST come before the rapture. There are any number of reasons why we will not be able to predict the return of Jesus.

 

Furthermore, Jesus was speaking to the disciples, as well as to those Christians who would follow. They – and even we – would not know the day or hour when the Tribulation begins. And, by extrapolation, would not know the day or hour when Jesus returns.

 

In fact, the conditions surrounding the beginning of the Tribulation may make it difficult to establish when it begins and when it ends – for those in various parts of the world who are cut off from communication.

 

As I said, there are many different reasons that we can think of that could explain why we would not know the day or hour of the return of Jesus. To claim this as foundational proof of a pre-tribulation rapture is not warranted.

 

God Has Not Appointed Us Unto Wrath

 

The next pillar of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is one that I hear the most often. Supporters of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Lie always tell me:

 

God has not appointed us unto wrath.

 

That statement comes from this verse in 1 Thessalonians:

 

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,1 Thessalonians 5:9

 

That verse is exceptionally clear, and I agree with it 100%. But…

 

Does it require a Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

 

No, it does not.

 

Remember, that the sentence starts out with the word ‘For’. It is synonymous with the word ‘because’ – which is how the original Greek word, hoti is used. It essentially means that obedience to the previous statements will make the following statement accurate.

 

To put it another way, following the preceding verses will mean that we will not suffer the wrath of God.

 

Here is the entire section that is relevant to this verse:

 

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

 

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

 - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11

 

Nowhere does this indicate a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. In fact, the context is to WATCH for the coming of the Last Days. Paul was telling them to be on the Lookout.

 

Why would Paul speak of being ‘watchful’ when The Rapture would take all Christians away before anything bad would happen?

 

What The Tribulation Really Is

 

Furthermore, the way that pretribbers use 1 Thessalonians 5:9 shows a distinct misunderstanding of what the Tribulation is.

 

What IS the Tribulation?

 

Well, Revelation 12 gives us a clue:

 

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.Revelation 12:14

 

…and:

 

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Revelation 12:17

 

It is the war between Satan and the followers of Jesus Christ.

 

Basically, the description that Jesus gives of the Tribulation in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is:

 

war, violence, affliction and deception

 

The Wrath Of God

 

That is not the Wrath of God. Here is the beginning of the Wrath of God:

 

And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.Revelation 16:1-2

 

THAT is the Wrath of God.

 

Do we go through that?

 

Well, the Last Trump blows before this. So, it appears to me that we don’t go through that. And, if we WERE around for this, God would make sure that we didn’t suffer it, in the same way that God protected Israel in the Land of Goshen.

 

The Church Is The Restrainer

 

The next pillar of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is this:

 

The Church is what keeps the Antichrist from coming.

 

That principle comes from this verse:

 

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.2 Thessalonians 2:7

 

Paul then goes on to describe the revealing of the Antichrist. So, I completely agree that there is something that keeps the Antichrist from being revealed. And, since Paul refers to this ‘something’ as a ‘he’, I also believe that this is the Holy Spirit. So far, we’re all in agreement.

 

Not Taken Out Of The World

 

However, all this verse is saying is that the Holy Spirit no longer blocks the coming of the Antichrist. There is a distinct difference between being taken out of the way and being taken out of the world. This verse does NOT say that the Holy Spirit must been taken out of the world for the Antichrist to come. It only says that the Holy Spirit must no longer stand in the way – or the path – of the coming of the Antichrist.

 

So, using this verse, to prove a pre-tribulation rapture, is wrong. It does NOT prove that there is a pre-tribulation rapture. Let me analyze their thinking about this.

 

The pretribbers claim that the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way because the church has been raptured.

 

But, is that true?

 

The pretribbers assume that the presence of the church is a sufficient barrier to the coming of the Antichrist, but I believe that this is NOT true. Not true at all.

 

We Have Driven Out The Holy Spirit

 

I wrote about this as a part of my series on Bible Twisting, here:

 

http://www.omegashock.com/2014/07/22/twisting-the-bible-part-2-the-holy-spirit-has-left-the-building/

 

When you look at our churches in America, you don’t find very much evidence of the Holy Spirit. There may be churches in various corners of America that still have evidence of the Holy Spirit, but I haven’t seen them for myself.

 

Our churches have become full of people that are indistinguishable from those who are not Christian. In fact, the average non-Christian here in Taiwan is more honest than the average Christian in America. The divorce rate among Christians is only slightly lower than for non-Christians. The abortion rate is also only slightly lower, and half of all pastors are regular consumers of pornography.

 

I believe that the Holy Spirit has been taken out of the way, because we have DRIVEN Him out. We have rejected the Holy Spirit, so He has rejected us.

 

To claim that The Church must be raptured, because the presence of Christians will always block the coming of the Antichrist is a false assumption. You are assuming that the Holy Spirit needs to actually leave the world for the Antichrist to come. But, that’s not true.

 

So far, I have knocked out all three pillars that act as the foundation for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

 

Who Populates The Millennium?

 

However, I ran across someone who raised an objection to a Post-Tribulation Rapture, and he claimed that this was the only reason why he was a pretribber. And, he posed his objection as a question:

 

Who populates the Millennium?

 

What an excellent question.

 

There ARE people in the Millennium, and they WILL repopulate the Earth. And, eventually, those of them who are not God’s people will rise up and rebel against God at Armageddon.

 

So, who do they come from?

 

Good question.

 

I don’t think that it’s a good enough question for someone to support a pre-tribulation rapture. But, I like tough questions, so I will do my best to offer some possible answers.

 

Do you remember the woman who flees into the wilderness and escapes the serpent?

 

I referred to it here:

 

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.Revelation 12:14

 

Why Some Do Not Take The Mark

 

I find Revelation 12 to be interesting because it indicates that the Antichrist is limited. He doesn’t have total and absolute control. There are areas of the world that he is unable to dominate completely.

 

Does this mean that there are non-Christians who are somehow unable to take the Mark of the Beast?

 

It could be.

 

We recently had a tribe from the Amazon jungle come into contact with civilization for the first time. Those like them, that are still in Amazon, will not take the Mark of the Beast. But, there’s something more than that.

 

Have you noticed that you cannot be forced to take the Mark of the Beast, and that it MUST be either on your Right Hand or on your Forehead?

 

I find that to be interesting. There is something about this mark that renders it inoperable on the left hand. And, the Antichrist would rather chop your head off, than force you to take his mark.

 

So, there must be a conscious, willing compliance. You must want this mark, and take it of your own free will.

 

But, what about children?

 

They don’t really have the ability to do this of their own free will. Or, at least, there are limitations.

 

Could a baby exert enough free will to take this mark?

 

That doesn’t appear to be the case, but I cannot be dogmatic about this. But, it does allow us to foresee reasons why there would be people and/or children who survive to repopulate the Earth, once the Millennium arrives.

 

So, that should answer your question. There ARE possible reasons for why there are survivors who repopulate the Earth in the Millennium.

 

Everything Else

 

Since all of the other passages offered by pretribbers must stand upon the above evidence, those passages cannot stand as evidence.

 

There really isn’t any other way of looking at this. Unless someone can come up with yet ANOTHER foundational passage for a pre-tribulation rapture…

 

the pre-tribulation rapture is a lie.

 

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Really Is A Lie

 

Of course, all of that is secondary.

 

Here is part one of this series:

 

http://www.omegashock.com/2014/07/28/the-pre-tribulation-rapture-lie/

 

That article proved that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a lie. In that article, I showed that the following WILL and MUST happen before the Rapture:

 

  • The Antichrist must come before the Rapture
     
  • The Tribulation must come before the Rapture
     
  • The Lord Must descend from Heaven with a Shout before the Rapture
     
  • Jesus Must Return before the Rapture
     
  • The Resurrection must happen just before the Rapture (or, at the same time)

 

The scriptural evidence provided to back up those statements are completely and utterly obvious.

 

And, when you compare that evidence with the evidence coughed up by the pretribbers…

 

…well, there is really only one conclusion.

 

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a Lie, and it is so obvious, that it’s hard to understand why ANYONE believes in such nonsense.

 

Please, everyone, throw off this deception and start preparing for disaster. There is no time left for foolishness and self-deceit.

 

I truly hope that you’ll be ready for this

(That’s a link. Do more than just think about it.)

 

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If you find a flaw in my reasoning, have a question, or wish to add your own viewpoint, leave a comment on the website. Your input is truly welcome.

 

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http://eepurl.com/Epr5H

 

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    Total 14 comments
    • Donovan

      Looks to me you’re tearing or should I say shredding the Holy Bible to prove your worthless point. I try to comfort and encourage others around me that Jesus Christ will gather His people, have faith, love and the helmet of salvation; we will be saved from the His coming wrath. I have read it time and time again with my own eyes that Jesus will gather his people. 1Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1Thessalonians 4:16-18 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words. Matthew 24:3131″And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. 1Thessalonians 5:8-9 8But since we are of [the] day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
      I could go all day with the verses, but I HOPE you get the point! As people of FAITH in Jesus Christ we need to believe that God will rescue us, we are all depending upon Him. He tells us over and over that we do not have to suffer the dreadful Day of the Lord. We will be spared from His coming wrath when He comes to destroy the wicked and to judge all of His creation. We will be safe under His wing.
      You are very mistaken, I hope you can repent from misleading the people. This is a very serious matter with so called Christian believers. :smile:

      • President Washington

        Hey, inbred LUNATIC (for Christ, of course) Donovan.
        :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
        STFU

        You have a SERIOUS odd “mangod” problem.
        “We”?????????????

        YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME, YOU maniac for an ALL MALE KILLER-CULT who suffers from an odd “I speak for god” complex, that has led to a “mental disease”!

        YOU want to make people “feel better” donovan?????

        ABOUT WHAT??
        You and your self centered narcissist ranting and raving about a white-skinned male “mangod” coming with death & destruction for all, except you “believers” proves what you are;

        A spiritual TERRORIST!
        :shock: :shock: :shock:
        A person who has an incurable disease, an affliction for which there is no cure.
        :shock: :shock: :shock:
        Donovan, you will have to be quarantined at a special “Re-education” Camp, where the white-skinned “mangod” will be removed from “your” sexist, racist, VIOLENT, all male run KILLER-CULT “religion” called judeo-christo-SCUMDUMBS!

        It is for your own good, Donovan!
        :grin: :grin: :grin:
        It is for your protection, as well as assuring MY SAFETY from violent lunatic maniacs, like you, Donovan!!!!
        :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    • Pgh.Oldtimer

      The pre-trib rapture believers won’t admit the truth until the true Christ returns at the seventh trump and they realize they’ve been worshiping Satan (as Antichrist) pretending to be Jesus. It may be some weren’t meant to know the truth for their own protection, keeping them from committing the unpardonable sin.

    • Crazy times

      Just a very basic understanding from Sunday school can work ALL this out, really, no really !!

      “as in the days of Noah” Matthew 24:37-41 so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

      What happened !!??,the righteous we’re LIFTED UP above his WRATH at the Beginning by entering the Ark.

      Narrow is the Door (Ark) and FEW enter. (Y’shua is the (Ark) this time.)

      and HE will also rescue the righteous as promised, as he did in Sodom & Gomorrah, What happened ?, to Lot and family they we’re removed from Gods Wrath…

      Egypt the Israelites’ What happened ? God protected the chosen during Egypt’s afflictions the TAV of blood on the house to protect them from the Angel of Death and also removed them physically across the Red sea.

      Now my own little children understand that a precedent has been set here and God does not Judge the righteous with the unrighteous in fact He Protects them from HIS WRATH……this is very basic knowledge from a humble messenger , no need of long winded personal interpretations of naysayers. We have the WORD “AS IT IS WRITTEN” for our protection and a SWORD for our defense and the Promises of GOD…. TO THOSE who look for him.

      Now that being said, your entitled to your OWN POV

      BUT please KNOW you have not a chance in …. in changing ours in fact, you are as mentioned by Donovan in grave error.

      Mockery is not a good thing as those in Noah’s time found out.

    • mfritz0

      This reminds me of the video about the rapture, you probably have all seen it, you know the one that talks about the rabi who got left behind because he was so sure it was going to be later instead of pretrib. Well here are some words of wisdom. Be ready, be prepared, no man knows the day nor the hour so be ready. If you are not ready where will you be? Your only hope would be to not take the mark and have your head chopped off via guillotine.

    • Andoron

      There is a public chat forum known as Paltalk. I would like to call out any of these ministers into a public discussion about the pretribulation rapture. John Little, Steve Quayle, Rick Wiles, or anyone else that denies this clear teaching of scripture. The forums are too heavily censored and truth does not fear examination. I am perfectly willing to have what I teach examined, the question is are they willing?

    • Andoron

      For clarification on the challenge to an open discussion. The room will be run by two unbiased admins who don’t care which side is right. They will simply monitor time on mic and keep it organized. The discussion will be totally fair for both sides and there will be absolutely no censorship of either side’s points. I welcome this, and hope they will as well.

      • Truthseeker

        andoron

        Have you spent any time in Matthew 24? Christ leaves no place for a rapture.

        Matthew 24: 29 – 31

        29 “Immediately – AFTER – the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,” —–

        Christ is precise and clear: IMMEDIATELY “AFTER”- the tribulation which can only be The Great Tribulation is over the 6th Seal then begins. As the Heavenly Signs which are the 6th Seal begin the sun shall be darkened.

        29 — continues —— “and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,” —

        These are the heavenly signs of God’s intervention which comprise the 6th Seal and by which God stops the complete annihilation of all mankind by Satan. Remember by Christ’s own statement in verse 22 no flesh would be saved alive if the time of the Tribulation were not cut short? God is doing the shaking of the heavens and the earth, not man, not Satan.

        Does the description of the 6th Seal given by Christ in Matthew 24 match with what Christ reveals to John in Revelation 6?

        12 – The 6th Seal is opened and the sun became black;
        29 – Shall the sun be darkened.

        13 – The stars of heaven fell unto the earth.
        29 – The stars shall fall from heaven.

        14 – The heaven departed as a scroll and every mountain and island were moved out of place.
        29 continues —– “and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”

        And in Joel 2: 30, 31 God through Joel confirms that the 6th Seal comes just before the 7th Seal which is the Day of the Lord.

        30 “And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke.”

        31 “The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood – before — the great and the terrible Day of the Lord — come.”

        The sun into darkness and the moon unto blood which is the 6th Seal and the 6th comes before the 7th Seal which Joel states IS The Day of the Lord. The 7 Trumpets are the Wrath of God poured out upon gentiles and the 7th Seal is the Day of the LORD.

        Yes it is a match; confirmed twice by Jesus Christ and once by Joel the prophet.

        The 7th Seal is the Day of the LORD and of The Wrath of God on the Beast Power and all the gentile nations. God gets the gentile powers attention by shaking the heavens i.e. the 6th Seal. Heavens is plural and must then include the planets and stars above as well as the mantel of air above earth.

        By the time the 6th Seal is completed the heavens ‘shall have been shaken’ and everyone on earth will have experienced the Heavenly Signs and will be in great fear and attempting to hide.
        When the 6th Seal has ended the last Seal begins which is the Seventh (7) Seal that Seal which brings us the return of Jesus Christ King of kings and LORD of lords.

        30 “And then shall appear the SIGN of the Son of man in heaven:” ——–

        Christ in Matthew 24 after describing the 6th Seal in verse 29 jumps to the sign of His appearing with verse 30 leaving aside for now the 7 Trumpets of the 7th Seal which are the 7 measures of the Wrath of God. Christ moves directly to the end of the 7th Seal which is the last Trump i.e. The 7th and last Trump of the 7th Seal and the Sign of His coming. In many other scriptures the last trump which holds the Seven Last Plagues is shown to be the time of Christ’s return as King of kings. When the 7th and last plague is poured out heaven opens and a great voice proclaims; “IT IS DONE”. When the Wrath of God and the Day of the LORD are complete –Christ returns.

        Many imagine the Sign of the Son of Man that will appear in heaven to be a cross. When the ‘Sign’ appears it will first appear over Jerusalem and continue west until it rest again over Jerusalem and that Sign will be – Great LIGHT — brighter then our sun. The SIGN of Christ’s return is Jesus Christ bringing the LIGHT OF THE TRUTH finally to all the earth.

        30 continues—– “And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with Power and Great Glory.”

        Why else would the tribes mourn, they will see Christ coming in unimaginable great power?
        You must admit, if He turned around and went back the earth would no longer mourn, they would be overjoyed. This is not a rapture, Christ in Matthew 24 has just taken us through the 5th, 6th and 7th Seals and to the very day of His Return as King of kings in all power to rule earth and not one hint of going back to heaven.

        The whole earth sees and realizes what is taking place, never has any man much less the entire earth witnessed the Awesome Power and Glory of Almighty God which the Father will forcefully demonstrate unmistakably around the entire earth at the return of His Son Jesus Christ. And Christ comes in the Clouds “On the Last Day” and exactly as He left after His Resurrection — in the clouds of the sky – He comes over a complete day that all will witness. Read Zechariah 14: 5 – 9, Christ returns is a globe circling event witnesses by every one on earth. In that Day there will be no night.

        31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, —- “

        Christ sends His angels with the great sound of a Trumpet. Here is where the whole concept of the rapture vanishes; the 5th, 6th, and now the 7th Seal are now complete with the great sounding of the Last Trump and at the end of the last of 7 trumps Christ comes with indescribable Power and Great Glory. Christ returns at the very end of the 7th Trump, the Last Trump.

        31 continues “— And they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

        As shown by the words of Jesus Christ above, the 5th and 6th Seals are completed — as of the last one of the 7 trumpets of the 7th Seal is sounded and Christ returns in the clouds THEN Christ sends His Angels to gather His Elect from the 4 winds – from one end of heaven to the other. And what is His signal to the Angels that they are to go and gather– – A great sound of a trumpet. Christ is now coming in the clouds, all the Seals are complete and then the angels gather the Elect, so says Jesus Christ our King of kings.

        All 7 of the SEALS are completed – AND THEN – the angels gather the Elect.
        Remember in verse 29 it says after the Tribulation, then the heavenly signs –then the Day of the Lord,— Then Christ comes in the clouds,– then He sends His angels to gather the elect.

        This is called The First Resurrection.

        • Andoron

          Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

          Christ promises the Church to keep them from this tribulation period. Why is it most people who deny a pretribulation rapture deliberately pretend this verse doesn’t exist?

          Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

          Notice Christ says “All these things that shall come to pass” not some, not partly, ALL. All these things means the entire scope/whole of the tribulation period.

          2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be TAKEN out of the way. <–Holy Spirit dwells within the believer, and the believers will be removed.

          2 Thessalonians 2:8 And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

          After believers are removed, THEN Antichrist is revealed. Proper exegesis of the word of God.

          Isaiah 26:20-21 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. <-God hides his people before pouring out His wrath upon the earth.

          Now look at John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

          This all ties into the jewish wedding and Rosh Hashanah. In ancient jewish weddings the son would build an extended room at his father's house. When the father is satisfied the room has met his standards; he orders his son to fetch his bride. Rosh Hashanah or Yom Teruah is known as the feast of trumpets. When the son fetches his bride, there is one before him who blows the trumpet "Behold the bridegroom cometh!". Rosh Hashanah is directly tied to the ritual of this wedding, and only begins when two witnesses spot the sliver of the moon. The feast is begins on a day and hour know man knows. Sound familiar?

          In Isaiah 26:20-21 you see God's people being hid in their chambers. Jesus built these chambers, John 14:1-3. The context of Isaiah 26:20-21 is the Tribulation period, aka Day of the Lord.

          God never judges the righteous with the wicked. Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

          God always removes His own before pouring out His wrath. The teaching God's blood bought bride shall endure the wrath of God, is a serious change in God's behavior. The immutable God never ever change His behavior.

          God removed Lot before He poured out His wrath. God never changes. Malachi 3:1 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
          Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

          Those who come to Christ during this time period (The day of the Lord, aka Tribulation) will suffer great persecution.
          Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

          The Antichrist shall overcome these people. Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
          Daniel 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

          Now look at Christ's promise to the Church: Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

          Antichrist prevailing against the Church itself is in direct contradiction to Matthew 16:18.

          The fact is this, God's entire purpose for this Tribulation period is dealing directly with Israel once again. NOT the Church, the Church will be with Christ and return with Christ at the 2nd coming.

          Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

          Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

          In Matthew 25, we see Jesus at His 2nd coming separating the sheep from the goats. The sheep will inherit the kingdom of God. Now if the Church is raptured at His 2nd coming at the end of this period. Who is left to populate the earth? The Church will now possess redeemed bodies and will not be allowed to marry. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

          This simple fact alone buries the doctrine of Post Tribulation rapture.

        • Truthseeker

          Andoron

          So am I to understand that Jesus Christ lied in Matthew 24: 29 – 31??

          Christ clearly and plainly says the angels are sent to gather the Elect —

          after the tribulation,

          after the heavenly signs –

          after the Day of The LORD –

          and after the Last Trump.

          So according to you,,, Christ is mistaken, Christ is a little confused as to when and what??

          By the way 2 Thessalonians is talking about that Wicked one being taken out of the way to be destroyed, “taken” is a word that carries a meaning of against ones will.

        • Damien

          @Truthseeker

          31″And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

          ===============

          “”"GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”"”

          From where?

        • Truthseeker

          Meidan

          The Saints rise from the grave and a few still alive to meet Christ in the clouds in the sky then —

          Zechariah 14: 1- 5

          1 “Behold, — the Day of the LORD — cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.”

          2 “For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”

          3 “Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.”

          Verse 3 is “That Battle of that “Great Day of God Almighty” where our King of kings destroys all the gentile Kings and their armies on the earth. As the next verse says, Christ will be on earth for this battle.

          4 “And His feet shall stand ”In that Day” upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.”

          5 “And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and –ALL — the saints with thee.”

          When the resurrected Saints meet Christ in the clouds they then come to the Mount of Olives, ALL of the Saints come with Christ as kings ruling under Christ here on earth.

          There is no rapture there is no one going to heaven —- the problems are all here on earth and Christ is coming to bring peace, happiness, joy, prosperity all the things man has never had because they will not obey God.

          Christ will rule with a rod of Iron this time —- and any that will not obey will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

        • Damien

          @Truthseeker

          Thanks. It’s not that I didn’t suspect that you were right just that I knew I knew nothing about this.

        • Truthseeker

          Meidan

          All answers are in God’s WORD, here a little and there a little.
          Most today grab one sentence and make a doctrine from it.
          We are very close to the time of the end, and God’s WORD says He is sending strong delusions.
          That strong delusion is here and no one will listen to sound doctrine.
          I doubt I will post any more articles and maybe very few comments from now on.

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