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The Bible states that his name is the name of a Man. A MAN. This man will have a blind eye and a withered arm. He will hate Christianity. He will already be in a position of power within his group of followers. They all are antichrists. I believe he will rise to power with the signing of the WW3 peace treaty.

Mikesavage Your reading of the bible id deficient.

am123

I put a comment in the article “the USA preparing for mass death” as I reject completely your belief that God the Father and Jesus Christ could or would torture flesh and blood for eternity.

And those that take the mark etc are not converted – they do not have God’s Spirit thus they have no power to obey God, they have never been offered salvation – they are just carnal human beings.

So your father will burn them with fire for ever and ever? Not my Father.

To answer your question here: yes, those that receive the mark of the beast will drink the full cup of God’s wrath and be tormented in the lake of fire forever and ever. They will find no relief from the torment day or night, from week to week, from month to month, from year to year, from decade to decade, from century to century, from millennium to millennium, forever and ever.

It is altogether upsetting, Truthseeker, that some who call themselves believers actually delight in the demise of the goats. Surely they know the sheep, at His right hand, will bear witness.

The final sentence in Isaiah 66:24 results in a state of perpetual abhorrence forever and ever. No thanks

@Mayhem,

Yes we can agree to disagree. Such a difference is not a faith/salvation breaker. However, I worry for TS being condemned by his own words in which he said “If the one you follow will give eternal life to a pile of worthless flesh and blood just so He can torment them for ever I reject that so called god”. I don’t know how that will play out on Judgment Day.

Regarding so-called Catholic doctrine, are you saying the 4 Gospels are Catholic doctrine? Again, I really don’t get mixed up in that stuff, I just go by what the Bible says. For example, I believe that Jesus was the Word made flesh because that is what the Bible says. If Catholic doctrine also states that Jesus was the Word made flesh, then I don’t reject that notion just because it is Catholic doctrine. I accept or reject something based on what the Word says and not on anyone else’s particular doctrine. So Catholic doctrine is neither here nor there for me, I just want to discuss what is in the Bible itself.

Regarding Mark 9:43-48, Jesus implies eternity by citing fire that is never quenched and worms that never die. And when citing these things, He is alluding to chapter 66 of Isaiah, which also mention the fire that is never quenched and worms that never die. The whole idea here is torment—being burned by fire and eaten by worms. There would be no point to mention fire that is never quenched and worms that never die if the torment was for a finite period. This picture painted here by Jesus is one of eternal torment. This is bolstered by the fact that in Matthew 18:8, Jesus speaks about avoiding being thrown into the “everlasting fire”.

As to the ashes mentioned in Malachi, that is referencing the fallen PHYSICAL bodies of the wicked during the judgment in the tribulation. Their physical bodies are burned up, a pile of ashes. However, what is thrown into the lake of fire is a SPIRITUAL body, one that can indeed feel pain and suffering without dying—hence the eternal torment. For example, on the Day of Judgment, someone who died thousands of years ago doesn’t have a physical body to be tortured. But they will receive a spiritual body when tossed into the lake of fire.

No need to be smarmy, am123, “I just go by what the Bible says” & “I just want to discuss what is in the Bible” given that the Greek has it different to what your english translation does. An invented, wholly catholic construct first espoused by Tertullian; as evidenced by the historical record which, in this case, agrees entirely with Scripture.

If you think i’m saying the 4 Gospels are catholic constructs it is because you don’t read to good. I’m not here to teach you anything let alone how to read and write. The passage you hang your argument on says “age of ages” not “forever and ever”.

Regarding Mark 9:43-48 i’m not at all interested in what you think Jesus was implying: what did He say? He did not say “eternal torment/punishment” and that suffices for my point. And with regard to your commentary on Malachi: are there now two fires?

Are you saying, am123, that the final resurrection is not to life but in the spirit? That’s news to me. Why then does God say he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, if he doesn’t mean “death”? Why then is being thrown into the lake of fire called the second death?

Oddly enough annihilists are in line with JW and SDA doctrine… er wait… scrub that. Obviously there’s still much i need to learn, am123.

I don’t know how or why their worm doesn’t die but “their worm” is not “them”. The only clue i have is what is found in the parable of the fiery furnace. If God says it will be so, the bookies won’t want to know.

It’s a certainty that the saved are raised as spiritual bodies and, absolutely, achieve immortality (1 Cor 15:35-50) but i don’t find “eternal torment” anywhere near as clearly defined. Thank you for your input, am123, and i’ll retire to reflect.