The Lost Commandments Of Jesus Have Been Found
Finally the lost commandments of Jesus have been found. David Vose’s video description reads: For two thousand years we have been going by the Letters of Paul to understand Jesus and his Message. The world turned those writings into a NEW law. The irony of this is, that the Church had lost the Actual Meaning of the New Covenant and were attempting to mix Pagan Religious teaching with the Letters of Paul, to create a New Religion. While they proclaimed that they were not under the Mosaic Law, and were now SAVED, they, in actuallity had created a NEW set of LAWS, and had written creeds, which they now demanded all should follow, or they would again be damned.. Jesus came to set us free, by giving us a NEW Covenant which coud actually set us free. Yet the Church enslaved us back again to A NEW, Man made, set of laws.
Finnaly in the Lats Days, a group of people came along and saw this problem and realized that the Churches had set up a New Law code, and that this was UNscripural. So these people said, “we will go back to the Original LAW of Moses.” We must keep the Laws, this must be salvation. And the circle was closed.
SOURCE: David Vose
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Jesus gave the Ten Commandments to Moses. The same Law that even the angels in heaven still obey.
The same Law that the breaking of is the only definition of sin in the entire Bible.
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The same Law that must be kept to get into heaven.
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/index.html
How could they be lost, when the white-skinned mangod NEVER EVEN EXISTED AT ALL!
A FABLE, ALE!
LUNATIC!
Don Quixote fought valiantly for a noble cause.
RR
Have another Ale – John!
Aramaic Bible:
Gospel of John chapter 11
Youkhanna
25. Eashoa told her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life, and whoever believes in me, even though they be dead, shall Live,
26. “And whoever that Lives and believes in me, shall never die
http://www.v-a.com/bible/john_11_audio.html
Exodus
Exodus 21
1. “‘And these are the laws that you shall consecrate before them.
http://www.v-a.com/bible/supporters/exodus_21-24.html
YOU will enjoy the “Lake of Fire” !
Nam Marine “YOU will enjoy the “Lake of Fire” !”
So will you, for proving your disbelief by role playing your deity. If you actually believed, you would not dare do such a thing. What you are doing is role playing your deity so you can do the judging instead, thus proving your disbelief.
Matthew 7.1 “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” You’re nothing but a spiteful ill wisher.
Why was my comment removed?
Where is the TOS violation when I am physically threatened by this demented WAR MONGERING ameriiiiSCUM vet?
I disagree with Nam Vet.
That is incorrect.
But now I ask you,
Insults at the level of a fourth grader?
(You can answer to that that you are communicating
at a level that can be understood by Christians)
You exhibit a level of control over your thoughts that
I find quite interesting.
I can only guess that this is your attempt,
By being a glowing example,
To lead the Poor Blind and Lost Christians out of their
Dark Wilderness.
To open their eyes to a glowing future, without a need
for Christianity!
Their desire to be like you, Choronzon, is the greatest
Tool in your Arsenal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Never fear, You are winning the Battle!
Persevere!!!
RR
YEA!
Why can the christo-CREEPS threaten others on BIN, using their ‘religion’ as an excuse, but ARE NOT BANNED, like this maniac named nam marine??
Nam marine….Believe that there are some sane people here, who understand “your stand”. I’m sure the trying times taught you more about life than any of these ultra-morons will ever understand. Thanks for your service…semper fi.
You just keep on believing that. won’t be seeing you later. Have a nice trip. Dumbass!
No man can keep the 10 commandments!!
That is the very reason Jesus dies and rose again, that we may have grace through him for our inability to keep them….
If you are still trying to get to Heaven via keeping the 10 commandments then you have missed the whole point of Jesus, who of course IS God…
humblehorse “.. Jesus, who of course IS God”
If that’s true then he would have impressed more people by farting fireballs out of his backside and blasting his enemies into outer space, rather than pathetically dying like a man on a gibbet sacrificing himself to himself, in a melodramatic dying duck act.
You folks have zero critical thinking skills.
Choronzon….Lord of Dispersion
Not to worry, there’s a vaccination for rabid zombies, just remember to wear your bite proof vest in the mean time.
You have zero understanding of the gospel
Jesus is not God but the Son of God…I can see you are a little confused but God sent his only begotten son….how does that make him god and a son?…you misread or didn’t understand or simply were not listening when you were told…
Moses’ law allows for sin offerings if someone fails to
keep the 10 Words of that Covenant, so that they can
continue on some more into the ‘self righteous’ way of the law.
“this shall be for our righteousness” ( Moses on the 10 Words )
Are you saying that you can keep the Law or man is able to keep the Law……? The Old Testament in itself proves that no man can keep God’s Law…. And evidently you missed everything written within the New Testament….. You best start reading the Bible instead of listening to those who think they know the Bible… I suggest that you try using The Bible Pathway Ministries Devotional Daily Guide….
If BIN gave medals for articles lacking substance, John Ale would win first prize.
The Vatican qualifies…….top prize.
Jesus of course never contradicts Himself. Note the following points:
According to the following scripture, the Old Testament always informs us through the prophets what changes are coming in the future. Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”The Ten Commandments abolished
So what did the Old Testament prophets say Jesus would do? Isaiah 42:21 “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; he will MAGNIFY the law, and make it HONOURABLE.”
In Matthew 5:17-19 we find the fulfillment of this prophecy. The translations from the NIRV Bible and the CEV Bible give greater clarity to the meaning of fulfilling the law and a jot or a tittle. See also Luke 16:17 which also makes it abundantly clear that not even a comma or full stop is going to be abolished from the law. These verses have to include all Ten Commandments or we have a lot more than a “jot” and a “tittle” passing from the law. The fourth that some claim was abolished or changed to Sunday is the largest of all the Commandments and hence also remains unchanged as long as heaven and earth are still here.
For those who have not heard of the expression a jot or tittle, a “jot” is the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet and a “tittle” is one of those little strokes by which one Hebrew letter is distinguished from another. So the expression a jot or tittle is literally the smallest part. Or to put it another way, this would be the equivalent of crossing your “T’s” and dotting your “I’s” or could even be described as a period and a comma as observed in the above translations.
In the remainder of Matthew chapter five one can read how Jesus does magnify the law just as it was prophesied. Below are five examples:
From “do not murder,” to “anyone who is angry with his brother without cause will be subject to judgment.” Matthew 5:21-22
From “You shall not commit adultery,” to “whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28
From “anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce,” to “anyone who divorces his wife except for marital unfaithfulness causes her to become an adulteress.” Matthew 5:31-32
From “an eye for eye and tooth for tooth,” to “if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other cheek also.” Matthew 5:38-39
From “love your neighbour and hate your enemy,” to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” Matthew 5:43-44
Note that the first part of points 3-4 especially were never God’s ideal and were implemented by Moses to help keep the peace between the people because of the hardness of their hearts. See Matthew 19:8 for example.
Also note that there is a rapidly spreading heresy that originated with one man called Herbert Armstrong who insisted we still have to keep the feasts days that were part of the sacrificial law, which is what was nailed to the cross that so many typically get confused with the moral law. Those who have been led astray by this teaching often insist Matthew chapter 5 refers to these feast days also but this is not possible as scripture in several places in the New Testament informs us these have ended as one should expect. See colossians 2:16 for one such example. The context of Matthew 5 also reveals otherwise and does not have one single reference to the sacrificial law and its various feast days and speaks only of morals as already seen. Hence this also reveals which law and remains consistent with all other scripture.
There is no change to the law but it was magnified as prophesied. Jesus not only said that we are to obey the Ten Commandment law but He places very strong emphasis on the fact that we are to teach it also. You certainly cannot teach a law that has been abolished. Those teaching that the Ten Commandments have ended are going against the instructions of our Lord and Saviour and will be called least by those who do enter the kingdom.
Observe a few of the contradictions which we would have in scripture if the Ten Commandments were abolished. (Luke 16:17; Romans 2:13; Romans 3:31; Romans 7:7; Romans 7:12; 1 John 2:4; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14)
You said “Also note that there is a rapidly spreading heresy that originated with one man called Herbert Armstrong who insisted we still have to keep the feasts days that were part of the sacrificial law, which is what was nailed to the cross that so many typically get confused with the moral law. Those who have been led astray by this teaching often insist Matthew chapter 5 refers to these feast days also but this is not possible as scripture in several places in the New Testament informs us these have ended as one should expect. See colossians 2:16 for one such example. The context of Matthew 5 also reveals otherwise and does not have one single reference to the sacrificial law and its various feast days and speaks only of morals as already seen. Hence this also reveals which law and remains consistent with all other scripture.”
I say “horse droppings” and I mean that with all due respect of course! I read in your response a lot of really convincing dialog, I mean if you’re addressing those without God’s Spirit, that is! Your first problem is that by aborting the seven Holy Days you have absolutely no idea what God’s plan is, none!
Each of these Holy Days depict a different phase of God’s plan for Elohim, the New Jerusalem and life everlasting in the Kingdom of God. Unless you participate and understand the significance of each you remain totally oblivious to His real plan. Is that advisable? That is precisely why you are so confused believing like Lucifer that you have a self sustaining spirit that has the power to ascend to Heaven if you’re a good little believer and down to endless torture when you’re bad. Neither of which is true!
The truth is the appointed times, High Days, Sabbaths or Feasts were never done away with. According to Go in Lev 23 they are to be observed from generation to generation until time indefinite. What was fulfilled by Christ, the Lamb, our eternal sacrifice was the need for a high priest, the mercy seat and animal sacrifice for the remission of sin. This process was rendered obsolete as Jesus not only became the eternal sacrifice he became our high priest under the order of Melchizedek, our advocate before God petitioning for our forgiveness.
As far as being nailed to the cross, well I suppose that phrase says it all. This “cross” is a red flag warning of false religion. This pagan religious symbol predates Jesus. Crucifying someone historically entailed hanging them from a tree, pole or stake driving one solitary nail through both hands to support the upper torso and one similarly through feet as the platform. The purpose of the torture stake was to cause extreme suffering that eventually resulted in the victim suffocating to death. Throughout that era there are no legitimately verified accounts of a cross ever being used in crucifixion, not a one!
How this torture worked is quite simple and effective. When the victim tired and was then incapable of bracing themselves, lifting themselves up supported by the nail through their feet, they would hang by their hands placing extreme pressure on the arms and respiratory muscles restricting their ability to draw a breath. This horrific process of execution would take hours from start to fruition. After being beaten within inches of their lives the recipients where forced to endure the public humiliation, horrific pain, and succumb to the kind of panic which was in effect equivalent to drowning.
Remarkably if a cross where ever to replace the stake in crucifixion the entire purpose would be ineffective. The arms in that position would just not impede breathing. The extended arms leaves the bronchial passage unabridged. A victim could literally survive until they died of thirst, hunger or disease before ever dying from suffocation.
As with the other points you’ve made, you seem to be totally oblivious to God’s Word. You recite inaccuracy revealing yourself as one in opposition of Truth. There is still time to repent for misleading others. I suggest you don’t waste another minute!
Just-My=Opinion
TLDR
Revelation 22:14-15 “Blessed are they that do his Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”
Revelation 14:12 “Here is the patience [endurance] of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
My troubles are not of the spirit, or of the mind. My troubles are caused by those of man; those of greed, of ignorance and pride. Religion, and obeying the laws of others will not save me, or change those causing real problems in the world. To put off the truth of the evil around us is to be blind. To allow oneself to fall prey to anything evil has in store, and to do nothing about it in the hopes that the corrupt will take heed, and learn.
Without a greater understanding, and a viewpoint both outward and within, you will be mistaken on your judgement. You will always be doing wrong to others, and be unable to understand each other. This is the way we currently do things. There are plenty who understand this, but they are not seeking to correct those who do not. Those who do not understand do not know they are mistaken, and are not wise enough to seek guidance. This conflicts arise between those who understand and do nothing, until it is nigh to late, and those who would take advantage of their peaceful stance on life.
Thus is the way of repetition; until the day comes when those who understand overthrow those who do not, and keep clean the future of which we all desire, until they too get caught up in their hearts, and in their minds. They make rules and breed ego within, until they too are the ones who do not understand, and those born unto they who were guided to truth, are to fight against the ways of evil once more.
Basically, unless we keep shuffling who is in charge after a revolution occurs, and making sure we work towards peace at all times, under a society dedicated towards the betterment of each other, then evil is doomed to come out on top. If you think something is wrong, and can give a reasonable example of what could go wrong and hurtful towards others, you must rise up and pronounce the problem. Not understand it and do nothing. This system is too deep in the river of evil, and no amount of speaking will fix it. Violence must fix this problem; violence and then peace.
Louis I couldn’t be in more agreement! This type of logic, or illogic is a perfect example of the modern day re-invention of all that has stood the test of time.
Just like the modern Illuminati agenda of re-inventing/labeling of marriage, gender, and morality to suit the lack of thinking of this age.
John Ale is but one among several on this site. But that Haven is I would say the worst and yet her “Brainless”
“Shocking” “Mind Blowing” “Blockbuster” “Breaking” among other poor use of adjectives she uses to headline her worthless posts almost always seem to go the top of the posts?!?!?!
She must be the one in charge of posting on this site.
Elijah — although I agree with everything you so eloquently said, I still think John Ale outshines — or out-dulls — all competitors on BIN in the category of utterly useless lower than garbage posts.
Which is not to say that Lyn and Lisa don’t trail too far behind.
I think the big question of why so many readers still download their stupid, worthless and misleading posts can be answered by Erasmus who in his famous work, IN PRAISE OF FOLLY, correctly stated: “There is an infinite number of fools.”
David Vose is at it again . .
To all you New Testament only Christians: if the Old Testament is no longer relevant, why is Abraham – with whom Yahweh made an everlasting unconditional covenant with (aka the Abrahamic Covenant) – mentioned 69 times in the New Testament?
These so-called Christian bozos ignore the fact that there was no New Testament Scriptures in the early church period. The earliest Christians ONLY had the Old Testament. Paul the apostle quotes from the OT dozens of times in the New Testament. How does a New Testament Christian understand Paul’s teaching if they don’t believe the Old Testament is relative today?
Further, what about the fulfillment of OT prophecy in the New Testament period? Simply search the word fulfilled, referring to prophecy from the OT testament fulfilled in the NT period and later and you will find the word occurs 57 times in the New Testament. One such occurrence is Luke 4:21 “And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears,” referring to Isaiah 61:2. Notice he leaves out “day of venegance,” which will be fulfilled soon.
Additionally, there is the passage “All scripture is inspired by Yahweh and is profitable for doctrine, for conviction for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of Yahweh may be complete, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Tim. 3:16,17. When Paul wrote that admonishment to Timothy, they only had the Old Testament. How could Timothy comply if he was to ignore the OT? How can one be thoroughly furnished unto all good works if one omits the doctrines found within the OT?
My guess is that many of these so-called Christians who only follow the NT believe the OT applies to the jews. While I have news for them: the OT applies to the Israelites, not the jews, as the jews are not the Israelites of the OT. If they actually read and studied their bibles closely they just might learn that important fact.
Many more Christians believe that Yahweh did away with the Old Testament law. The reality is that the rituals involved in the sacrifices were what was done away with, not the entire law. Yahshua himself said: 17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19.
The law was given ONLY to the Israelites and the 12 Tribes of the nation of Israel are the Caucasians – the Anglo-Saxon-Scandinavian-Celtic-Germanic and kindred peoples of the world. And it is only the Israelites who should be obeying them.Most of those laws are found within the Old Testament: laws regarding marriage, dietary laws, economic laws, legal principles, etc.
The law – minus the rituals – found in the Old Testament are indeed appropriate and applicable to all Israelites today. Any one who annuls one of the least of these commandments and teachers others to do the same, shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven. There are going to be quite a few called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Don’t you be one of them.
I want your to clarify something for me. Where in the Holy King James Bible does it say that Caucasian white people became the Israelite people?
The ten northern tribes were taken captive to Assyria. about 400 B.C. They never went back to Israel. They ended up traveling north over the Caucasus mountains, and populated much of Europe called Caucasians.
I think you are deceived, there is nothing from Holy Scripture that says Caucasians became Israelites. Everything in Scripture says Caucasians came from Japheth. Japheth is the progenitor of the white Caucasian race. Read Genesis 10 table of nations and you will see Japheth are the Gentile nations. Show me Holy Scripture that says specifically that the white Caucasians became Israelite people, then maybe I can have a better understanding.
http://christiandiscussionsmsn.yuku.com/topic/17239/Sons-Japheth-Gomer-Magog-Madi-Javan-Tubal-Meche
…dona….There’s a controversial interpretation of Genesis 1, that reads it. completely ‘linearly”, and says that the the races were created on the sixth day of creation….that was the advent of ‘Ahdam’, (transliterated as ‘mankind’).
Adam and Eve were created on the 8th day….that was the advent of ‘Eth Ha AHDAM’. Transliterated as “The” man Adam. The bible says they were to “show blood in the face”….”ruddy” complected.
The Adamic race=ruddy complected.
I’ve never thought that ARYANS were Adamic (caucasian)….they could be japhet’s progeny.
I will ask you again: where does it say in the Holy Scriptures that God made Japheth(Caucasian) Israelite(Shemite) people? The Holy Bible from front to back is literal, and Genesis 10 from a secular point of view is literal. Japheth are Gentiles, the white Caucasian race. So how do you figure Caucasians came from Israelites? Tell me what Scripture so I can have a better understanding where you are coming from?
Peace
Yeah, Ok…..but if you don’t read the bible from the ancient languages, you’re getting somebody else’s version of what it means….literally. Genesis 1 states that on the day after the “day of rest” (8th day), God created Adam and Eve. I won’t be upset if you don’t accept that. It is not a widely held viewpoint. I believe it, it makes more sense of the rest of the story.
You won’t get it from the KJB or any of the lesser translations, unless you have the unction. Like I say, its not in the every day interpretations…but I believe it.
You won’t get chapter and verse out of maxxy.
He’s famous for ducking and weaving.
Although he’s got opinion up the wazoo.
Thoth….I think you mean to imply that the current population of Israel has no connection with the ten tribes. I agree totally. The people in Israel today are NOT the chosen people. The “lost”tribes inherit that nominal identification. We will stand together….even though most of us don’t know who we are.
I believe that most of the people who call themselves Jews, today, are of the Kenites. The Adamic people have been gone from the area for two thousand years.
You actually missed the point of the comment….but I’m used to that. The people who actually go to the Hebrew and Greek to study the bible are fewer today than 20 years ago….I’m not surprised.
I stand by my synopsis.
We know you stand behind your synopsis but that doesn’t make it correct. Quoting from Scripture to support your exegesis would nail it down but you won’t, will you, Max?
Mayhem…sorry to disappoint you, but you know what you know, and I know what I know. I don’t have a copy of the Massarrah…do you? If I could produce the proper translation without the reference material, I would. Its like when i told am123 last year about the word “was” as it is found in Gen 1-1, actually translates as “became”, as the ‘world “became” void and without form’….and he fought real hard against that translation, because it implies that the story does not start at Gen 1….but before that!! In a time that was not supposed to have existed according to the limits he puts on the bible itself….so……Its the same issues here, now. The book of Genesis should be read as a “linear” description…which makes the creation of Adam and eve, and the preparation of the garden of Eden…after day 7 of the creation story….on the eighth day of creation. Which leads us to an easier to understand question of the ten tribes being the people released by the Assyrians, moving over the mountains and then into
Europe, and thence to the USA and Canada.
No, Max, i know what Scripture teaches and, unlike you, my opinion does not trump that. So you had the evidence but the dog ate it?
Mayhem….I should not have even brought the subject up….I knew before hand that I did not have proof handy….that was a mistake. The dog did not eat the proof. Its still there. I don’t know when I will have it to share, but when I do, I’ll broach the subject again. But it will come from the Hebrew texts…..Its the only place I’ve read it.
Max and Mayhem…
You fellas both know I’m a young earther. But the Hebrew can absolutely be translated as — and Eretz (Earth) she BECAME tohu wa bohu.
That’s a perfectly legitimate rendering of the first portion of the verse:
וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ
Incidentally,
That’s precisely how the phrase is rendered on the interlinear at Scripture 4 All:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
…and the Earth she became…
My point of contention was Adam’s 8th day creation and the Genesis 1:2 (“became” versus “was”) argument was introduced by maxxy as a distraction in which i took no part nor expressed an opinion.
In essence, WALTER, i agree entirely and am surprised you think i mightn’t have.
But now that you mention it: if the world “became” without form, implying it existed previously with form, would this allow for the argument that flesh and blood beings existed before Adam?
“…the argument that flesh and blood beings existed before Adam?”
I don’t think they did. Here’s why:
Throughout Scripture, the angels are referred to (covertly or overtly) as ‘stars’ or ‘the stars.’ We see in the Creation Narrative that the heavenly luminaries, including the stars, were created on the Fourth Day. I firmly believe this means that the angels were created on the Fourth Day. Therefore, I can think of no valid argument that any flesh and blood creatures existed before the creation of Adam. Man, woman and beast were made on the Sixth Day.
Although Hebrew can be an even more flexible language at times than English, I believe the correct translation of the second verse of Genesis is much as Young’s Literal has it: “…the earth hath existed waste and void…” …that is, Earth was brought to be in a (temporary) state of chaos.
Some argue that this cannot be, because the Most High creates things perfect from the beginning. This argument I find to be flawed because the process of creation was just beginning. By the time God rested from all His work, we see that the Creation was “very good.” Indeed it WAS perfect.
I do not believe life existed on this world prior to the present creation.
Mayhem, Yeah, you did me right. I’ve tried to stay away from my more ‘controversial’ subjects, and could not….my bad. If anything, there may a few people who will look into it further. I know there are scholars out there who know what I’m talking about…..and I will get back to you.
In the future, I will not “spew” anything biblicly controversial without the witnesses…except when it comes to am123. I give him nothing….he needs none…ask him. He still won’t accept the was-became thing. even though its in black and white….
i’m in the concordance now, I can’t remember keywords….but I won’t quit.
According to scripture, there was no human flesh in the first age….
Katabole- foundation, conception….the event that marked the end of the first age.
The “overthrow’ of Lucifer, (now, correct me if you think I’m wrong) or Katabole, is what brought an end to the first age, and according to Genesis, That’s way before the 4th day of creation.
This tells me that we (I) have a problem with the definition of the stars in Gen 4, as the angels. Lucifer is an angel.
Or the “days” of Gen 1, are not the thousand year days Peter talks about.
Maximus,
I wonder whether you might help me out on a couple of points. I can find nothing in Scripture to support the following, and I would ask you to show me the verses if they do indeed exist. From your above post:
“…an end to the first age, and according to Genesis, That’s way before the 4th day of creation.”
Is there actually anything in Genesis other than the possible translation of the Hebrew word hâyâh (H1961 היה) – as ‘BECAME’ – upon which you rely for this suggestion of yours?
“Lucifer is an angel.”
I find nothing in Scripture which tells me that Lucifer is an angel. Can you point to something specific upon which this supposition rests?
“…are not the thousand year days Peter talks about.”
It’s not just Peter, Maximus. We find a second witness in the Book of Psalms:
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
Walter….does Lucifer even really exist if he’s not scripturally the ‘cherubim’ we have been told /taught about?….rebelling against God, and getting tossed out of heaven?
What sort of creature is the devil? If not a cherub? What? There were no earthly people at the time….So he would have to be a heavenly being.
Either way, this ‘Katabole’, or foundation, still occurred before Genesis. Or are we going to take this “out of order” like some like to do with the 8th day creation of Eth Ha Ahdam, in chapter 7?
I am fully aware of the thousand years to one day information. I accept it, for now, I still need more info.
“Walter….does Lucifer even really exist if he’s not scripturally the ‘cherubim’ we have been told /taught about?….rebelling against God, and getting tossed out of heaven?”
Here’s the question, the way I see it: Are Lucifer and Satan the same? My answer to that would be yes and no. In Isaiah 14, where we have the King of Babylon (that would be the Man of Sin) being referred to once as Lucifer (Hebrew Helel)…
…I find no reason to presume this is the same entity being spoken of in Ezekiel 28 (the KING of Tyrus), wherein I believe we see Satan described in greater detail. Ezekiel 28 details first the Prince of Tyrus, and then the King of Tyrus. In this case, Tyrus should be conceived much as Assyria and Egypt are conceived in their broader scriptural senses as representative of more than just the geographical regions known by those names. Egypt is a parable for the entire world. Assyria is a parable for the immediate spiritual regions on the other side – I think the higher regions, but not the high heavens. (Vis, the Principality of the Powers of the Air…)
Lucifer is animated by Satan – or at least, ‘he’ will be when ‘he’ gets here. It is possible that Lucifer does not even exist right now, though it seems ‘he’ has enjoyed existence at some time in the past – or perhaps ‘he’ WILL enjoy existence at some point in the past. Still with me?
He who was and is not, and yet is.
Compared side-by-side, the entity being referred to in Isaiah 14 does not seem to me like the identical entity being referred to as the King of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28.
It does seem probable to me that Satan is one of the Cherubim. There is an enigma displayed for us throughout the Book – namely TWO Cherubim. Who are these two? Do you think you know?
Walter, no I can’t find anything on two cherubs, except the two installed on the lid of the arc of God. What do you believe?
I’m still working it out Max. They show up too many times in Scripture to be inconsequential.
No doubt we’ll know them both.
I suspect each of them play large speaking roles in the written Word.
Walter. ..There’s way more outside forces working on mankind right now, than at any other time in history. I truly believe that these forces are ALL of demonic nature, and intent. Spiritual warfare is upon us, like we’ve never seen.
The Nephilim have got to be destroyed. They know the time is short. They are all Angry and scared for their lives.
The Lord will see to it. By ourselves, we can’t do it.
As you can see, from the news on T.V. there is much innocent blood spilled. It will shake ‘n bake, real soon.
Gonna test my gospel armor, that’s for sure.
Maxxy
“The ten northern tribes ended up traveling north over the Caucasus mountains, and populated much of Europe called Caucasians”
Biblical Hebrews/Israelites did not populate the Caucasus mountains. That is an old fairytale made up by Ashkenazi Zionist Jews, to try and convince others that they were/are God’s chosen people. The historical homeland of the European Caucasian Jewish population is Khazaria. In 740ad under the order of khagan (king) Bulan, the 20 million inhabitants of Khazaria converted to Talmudic Judaism, the doctrine of the heretic Pharisees.
“In the year 740 A.D. the Khazars were officially converted to Judaism. A century later they were crushed by the incoming Slavic-speaking people and were scattered over central Europe where they were known as Jews.(The American people’s encyclopedia 1954)
The Khazars adopted the same practices that caused Jesus to openly rebuke the Pharisees throughout the bible, saying things like,
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. ”
“The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.”
“A wicked and adulterous generation”
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”
In 1867, Abraham Harkavy, a well respected Jewish scholar wrote about the Yiddish language originating in khazaria.
A Jewish history professor named Shlomo Sand from the Hebrew university of tel aviv Israel wrote a book called “the invention of the Jewish people” which is about exactly what the title suggests it is. I honor this man’s courage, for showing he valued informing the world above the opinions of his fellow Israelis. A Jew is normally labelled a “self hater” by Zionist pressure groups for informing people about these issues.
Multiple peer reviewed genetic tests have determined that less than 3% of the current Jewish world population have Semitic DNA and therefore could not be of the same stock as the biblical Hebrew/Israelites.
The 1980 Jewish almanac states “Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew.”
My point is that the homeland of European Jews, is Europe, not Palestine.
There is so much information available on this topic from authoritative Jewish sources, that I don’t believe the topic can be seriously debated anymore. The Khazars converted to Talmudic Judaism and spread throughout Europe. They are not a Semitic race, they are originally believed to be of asiatic Mongolian stock.
.
Maxxy
Not only was I stating that those who migrated to Palestine to create modern day Israel are not of the original Israelite stock, I was talking about all Caucasian Ashkenazi Jews. (European Jews). They are simply what they themselves refer to in their Talmud as “goyim”, who’s ancestors converted to Judaism.
The Israelites of old were Semitic people, were they not? If so, it is considered common knowledge amongst anthropologists and geneticists that Palestinian and Syrian Arabs are the highest concentration of Semitic people living today (Irony). This is determined by anthropologists through the study of craniometry. Semites have elongated skulls, Caucasians have broad round skulls, which tells them that the original Semitic Israelites were not Caucasians. So not only is there no scripture to support your claim, but modern science disputes your claim as well.
What original Greek version of scripture are you talking about? As far as my research has shown, the Hebrew scripture was first translated to Greek in about 200 B.C. at the library of Alexandria. Today this writing is known as the Septuagint bible. Is this the original Greek version you’re talking about? If so, who translated it? It was the corrupt 70 Pharisee scribes. They were the “authorities” in charge of the Hebrew writings. The spiritual forefather of these Pharisees was Cain, the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning. They butchered the original Hebrew writings at the library of Alexandria in 200 B.C. so that they would appeal to larger populations which translates to them collecting larger taxes from larger groups of followers.
This helps explain why NO mention of Israelites, Moses, 10 plagues, mass exodus, the employment of slave labour, or the king being referred to as pharaoh can be found in the Egyptian historical record before 200 B.C. The Pharisees corrupting the Hebrew writings at Alexandria also helps explain this statement made by Prof. Ze’ev Herzog, head of the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University.
He states:
“Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs’ acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn’t want to hear about it”
Whatever the case may be you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.
TOTH wrote:
“They butchered the original Hebrew writings at the library of Alexandria in 200 B.C. so that they would appeal to larger populations which translates to them collecting larger taxes from larger groups of followers.”
In order for your assertion to be true, the identical redactions and corruptions would have to have been perpetrated against the Old Testament documents discovered in the Qumran Library, many of which date to before 300 B.C. Do you intend to further an argument that this is what happened? Would you really dare to suggest that the (so-claimed) alterations made by the Pharisee scribes of the Septuagint were actually determined over one hundred years earlier by a completely different group of liars? You would be on some mighty shaky ground there if you did.
Rather, doesn’t the Qumran Library confirm that the Septuagint exists in much the same state today as it should – which is a fairly faithful rendering of the uncorrupted texts of the Hebrew Tanakh; the Old Testament? I believe that it does.
“…Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon.”
What you fail to mention, Toth, is that this quote from Herzog was published in ‘Ha’aretz’ Magazine, Friday, October 29, 1999. Since that time, ample archeological evidence has been unearthed in Palestine proving the existence of both David and Solomon – royal leaders in precisely the capacity depicted in the Bible. No leading archeologist today will pretend that we live in a world devoid of archeological evidence for the existence of David or Solomon.
Lastly would by my thoughts on the propagation of the Hebrew language – from the land of Canaan, up into and over the Caucasus Mountains, and into and throughout the mainland of Europe and the British Isles. This can be confirmed both archeologically (tribal headstones and grave markers with stone engravings) and it can be confirmed through forensic linguistics. These two alternate approaches to an issue which is fraught with lies and deception make gleaning something akin to actual answers much more likely. I would agree with Max in his conclusion of the identity of Israel. Both the path of the Ancient Hebrew language as it spread and morphed into modern languages (like Gaelic) and the trail of cultural artifacts agree as well.
PS to TOTH…
You wrote:
“In 1867, Abraham Harkavy, a well respected Jewish scholar wrote about the Yiddish language originating in khazaria.”
I make no dispute with this information. Yiddish is a language based on, or at least influenced by, Hebrew. It seems that the three of us — you, Max and myself — at least agree that the people living in the land of Palestine at the present are, by-and-large, not who they pretend to be.
Walter
First I will address the quote I referenced made by Herzog.
Yes, the quote was published in 1999. I don’t normally trust archeologists and the only reason I trust what Herzog said is because he had nothing to gain from making the claim I referenced. His claim surely resulted in resentment towards him. People don’t lie to make themselves look bad. However, people do lie to make themselves look good, or for money. Many scholars have agreed that between 1050-939 b.c., the suggested time of the kingdom of David, Jerusalem was uninhabited or did not exist. So I don’t believe that ample evidence has been found over the course of the last 16 years, when Herzog and his associates searched for 70 years and found nothing. It would not be the first time an archeologist planted “evidence” to give credibility to a claim with no existing evidence, “Piltdown man” comes to mind.
As for the Septuagint bible, I will get right to the point. What I am suggesting is that when the Pharisees translated the Hebrew Scripture in Alexandria, they substituted Mizraim, the name of an urbanized Arabian caravan trade route storehouse city which was ruled by Faraon , for Egypt. The Faraon ruler of Mizraim, employed slave labour to build store house facilities and charged travelers and merchants to use them. Southwest of Saudi Arabia is a town called Misr in Bisha, where oral tradition and genealogy places the family line of Hagar, 2nd wife of Ibrahim/Abraham.
I believe Moses led an exodus of possibly hundreds of slaves from this place to Yemen. In Yemen, locals claim that the city of Sanaa was actually founded by Shem. In Marib Yemen, we find the throne of queen Sheba, mistress of Solomon and said to be mother of Menelik. I believe it was Darslam,(Jerusalem)Yemen where king Dawood(David) conquered the Philists(Philistines).
I believe the Pharisees fraudulently relocated the exodus of the Israelites found in Hebrew scripture from Mizraim Arabia, to Egypt. This makes their story more appealing to a wider audience by claiming the wrath of God brought down the mighty Egypt in favor of the Israelites. This to me, is why Egypt has no historical record before 200 b.c. that speaks of Moses, Israelites, 10 plagues, mass exodus, the employment of slaves, or the Egyptian king being referred to as pharaoh. None of these things are found in Egyptian history before the Pharisees translated the Hebrew scripture into Greek at the library of Alexandria.
By committing this act of fraud, the Pharisees not only assured themselves a greater following but they ruined the image of ancient Egyptian history by making them out to be oppressors of “Gods people”. This is very upsetting to me, and to any self proclaimed Christian or Jew who speaks of Egypt as evil barbarians, I dare any of you to attempt to follow the 42 sacred laws of Ma’at. Many self proclaimed Christians and Jews cannot even follow the 10 commandments. They would not have even the slightest chance of following the laws of Ma’at.
Please don’t take that last bit personally, Walter. I am not attempting to insult your faith, I am speaking in a general sense and not to you personally. Now, as for the propagation of the Hebrew language into Europe, I would suggest the language came with the Talmudic Pharisees hired by the Khazarian Khagan Bulan in 740 a.d. Regardless of how the Hebrew language came into Europe, Caucasian people are not Semitic people and therefore cannot be of Hebrew/Israelites stock. I’m fairly certain that anthropologists are pretty unanimous with regards to this topic.
I am entirely convinced that the Zionists who created the modern Jewish state in Palestine are devious imposters. Their negative influence on our history regarding both world wars and what we have been taught about them cannot be denied. Therefore I see the Zionist state as illegitimate and pure evil, so I refuse to believe a single word out of the mouths of anyone associated with these proven liars.
THOTH wrote:
“I don’t normally trust archeologists and the only reason I trust what Herzog said is because he had nothing to gain from making the claim I referenced.”
Nothing to gain from the claim? That’s not exactly so. On the off-hand chance that my camp is correct, and there is a concentrated effort to marginalize (if not outright disprove) the Scriptures, then it is more than likely that Herzog had something to gain from his posture – i.e., the approval of the ‘scientific’ mainstream and the academic elite.
“His claim surely resulted in resentment towards him.”
Resentment from a quarter I would suggest he cares very little for. Water off his back.
“People don’t lie to make themselves look bad.
Have you met Pix?
“It would not be the first time an archeologist planted “evidence” to give credibility to a claim with no existing evidence…”
In effect you’ve just said: ‘I don’t believe any evidence of the kind you suggest exists, but if it does, it’s probably fake anyway, so I don’t believe it even if it does exist.’ Not exactly a ‘scientific’ approach to honesty now, is it, THOTH. If you’re in the habit of dismissing evidence even before you’ve examined it, how on Earth do you expect to arrive at a meaningful conclusion? One presumes that is what you are trying to do. Or are you here only to extol the virtues of the Ancient Mysteries?
Re your claims vis-à-vis Egypt and Mizraim… I would be happy to review any supporting material you might like to submit into evidence, but my previous objection remains in full force; namely that the same word exists in the Qumran Documents as it does in the Septuagint, and would therefore have to have been altered by the same culprits you accuse in connection with the Greek translation. I can tell you frankly, your claim doesn’t make sense, unless the Pharisees were time-travelers.
“I believe Moses led…”
Here we are entering into a realm of inquiry beset by a sandstorm of deception. There is no shortage of varied opinions with respect to the topic. But here is the scientific method: Begin at the beginning. Start by attempting (genuinely) to synch up the archeological record with the scriptural record. Can it be done? [Here’s a helpful hint – it might work better if we compared apples with apples: or in this case, calendars with calendars. The Calendar of Scripture is not the Roman Gregorian calendar. The dates won’t be the same if we cross compare. Ever see Raiders of the Lost Ark? Are you, like Belloq, digging in the wrong place? Another helpful hint would be to consider the possibility that the readily available pool of evidence has been purposefully contaminated by enemies of the Word. It would be your duty as a student of these matters to at least factor in that possibility – a possibility about which none of us can plead ignorance.]
“This to me, is why Egypt has no historical record before 200 b.c. that speaks of Moses, Israelites, 10 plagues, mass exodus, the employment of slaves, or the Egyptian king being referred to as pharaoh.”
You’ve no doubt heard it said that if you’re worried about getting a rotten apple, don’t take it from the barrel… pick it from the tree. That is to say, if direct evidence as it pertains to Egypt at that time may have been intentionally compromised (as indeed may be the case), we should then seek alternate information sources to at least cross-reference the information tied directly to the source. Are the biblically infamous plagues in Egypt something which may have effected a wider area? Hints of an answer to this question might be found elsewhere than in the Egyptian historical record. In a similar vein, has the movement of an (alleged) mass of people, over a million strong, impacted other cultures or civilizations as the group wound its way through the Arabian wilderness? The head-on, full-frontal assault tactic for evidence gathering is often not the best approach. Nowhere is that axiom found to be truer than when engaged in the business of seeking valid information in connection with biblical history.
“…they ruined the image of ancient Egyptian history by making them out to be oppressors of “Gods people”. This is very upsetting to me…”
That doesn’t bode well for clear-minded fact-finding, THOTH. If you enter into this endeavor with an emotionally-laden cargo bay, you have virtually guaranteed your arrival at a location OTHER than a pristine understanding of past events as they actually occurred. Our comprehension of the past bears the load of our present world view. This is foundational. It is essential. Everything we take along with us on this study will influence where we emerge and from which perspective we end up viewing the most important questions for which we OWE our answers.
“I dare any of you to attempt to follow the 42 sacred laws of Ma’at.”
Count me out. I am Covenant-bound to attempt no such thing.
“Many self proclaimed Christians and Jews cannot even follow the 10 commandments.”
No, THOTH. ALL self-proclaimed Christians and Jews cannot follow the Ten Commandments. This fact is made self-evident throughout the body of Scripture. It is for this very reason that we need Assistance.
“They would not have even the slightest chance of following the laws of Ma’at.”
So the Apostle Paul: “…Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh…”
“Please don’t take that last bit personally, Walter. I am not attempting to insult your faith…”
I’m not insulted, friend. Neither did I mistake your meaning. I have familiarity with the things about which you speak, having studied for many years. What we are getting down to here is a question about emphasis. The question is: To what END? What do the laws of Ma’at profit? Whom do they benefit? Who is the recipient of the honor? And what do the participants expect? This is what the Apostle Paul meant by the term ‘will worship.’ This is what the Freemasons do as they ascend the ladder of degrees and come to a deeper understanding of the Mysteries: they worship and they exalt the will. Initiation into the Mysteries is an ongoing process, whereby the aspirant is conducted across a course of exaltation. Does he ever ask himself whether it is right or good for himself to be so exalted? Will he ever even dare to look for evil in a place where, it would seem, no evil does or even can exist? When a man looks on the Mysteries for the first time he will say: ‘Surely there is no evil here.’ That’s because he is a man.
“Caucasian people are not Semitic people and therefore cannot be of Hebrew/Israelites stock…”
If we know the Scriptures as we should, we will learn the identity of those living in the land of Palestine right now, saying they are Jews. The surprise is this: Though they are not Judah, and they are not who they claim to be, they are indeed Semitic.
Re your claim: “I’m fairly certain that anthropologists are pretty unanimous with regards to this topic…” I would invite you to consider, yet again, this fact:
When we hover over this question, and the matters related to it, we place ourselves into a whirlwind of agenda and deception. This is the term ‘vested interest’ epitomized. To the tenth power. Too many people, and too many agencies, alive and in operation in this world at the present time, have far too much invested in this question to make a cavalier proclamation of arrival at TRUTH with respect to an answer. If you imagine that you’ve wrangled the genuine from your inquiry, and you’ve landed in a field which extols the virtues of mankind, then you are perhaps trapped in the labyrinth you think you escaped from, and that to a tragic degree. I say ‘perhaps’ and I say this to you regardless of the time you’ve spent on your journey and involved in your study. You may have taken too much with you along the way. You said so yourself.
“On the off-hand chance that my camp is correct, and there is a concentrated effort to marginalize (if not outright disprove) the Scriptures, then it is more than likely that Herzog had something to gain from his posture”
Absolutely, I believe there is a concentrated effort to disprove the scriptures. However, in Herzog’s case, As an Israeli archeologist I would think that he would want to find evidence of the things he mentioned, they would have been of great historical significance. Not only would finding these things have boosted his career, but the Zionists could have claimed the archeological evidence was further confirmation of the “legitimacy” of the apartheid Zionist state.
With regards to the mentioning of no Moses, Israelites or any details of the exodus stories in the Egyptian historical record, you stated.
“Another helpful hint would be to consider the possibility that the readily available pool
of evidence has been purposefully contaminated by enemies of the Word.”
So….”In effect you’ve just said: ‘I don’t believe any evidence of the kind you suggest exists, but if it does, it’s probably fake anyway, so I don’t believe it even if it does exist.’ Not exactly a ‘scientific’ approach to honesty now, is it,” Walter.
I’m not saying I disagree that there is a possibility that available evidence has been purposefully contaminated. I’m just wondering, why, when I suggest that Israeli archeologists may have contaminated evidence you question my approach to honesty and then you turn around and suggest the same thing could have been done by enemies of the word, in Egypt?
“Or are you here only to extol the virtues of the Ancient Mysteries?”
No, I am here simply to share my opinion of what I believe to be the truth, based on the information I’ve gathered over the years. I was simply making a point that there was a time when ancient Egyptians lived according to these laws.
“No, THOTH. ALL self-proclaimed Christians and Jews cannot follow the Ten Commandments. This fact is made self-evident throughout the body of Scripture. It is for this very reason that we need Assistance.”
Good call, my bad..If they could have followed the commandments there would have been no need for the “perfect sacrifice”, the lamb of God. This is something I’ve always had a hard time with. If God was displeased with the animal sacrifices for the atonement of sins, how could he approve the sacrifice of his son? Why does this God require innocent blood? If he did not require blood sacrifice and was actually disgusted by it, why would he send his son to die on the cross?
The way I understand it is that he was sent as the perfect sacrifice, to end all sacrifices so that all men and women could be forgiven for their sins. But why could God not have just communicated with them, the same way he did with Moses and Abraham, and told them something like “look guys stop murdering my creations to atone for your sins, I’m disgusted by it, and I’ll forgive all your sins if you stop murdering my creation, in my name.”
Also, I know if I was guilty of a crime punishable by death, I could not let an innocent person take the blame and continue to live with myself. I believe that Jesus openly rebuking the Pharisees had a lot to do with him being crucified. He spoke the truth about their evil ways and they killed him for it.
“Re your claims vis-à-vis Egypt and Mizraim… I would be happy to review any supporting material you might like to submit into evidence”
Mizraim = מצרים Egypt also = מצרים
How can two words with entirely different letters end up translating to the same letters of the “Hebrew” alphabet? Especially when one word has 5 letters and the other has 7 letters?
If מצרים is the location of which Moses led the exodus out of, מצרים translates to Mizraim (mitsrayim) So how does one get Egypt out of Mizraim? Because the Pharisees said Mizraim is Egypt? Im obviously no expert on the Hebrew language but I would think Egypt might have Gimel, Yod, Pe, Tav, no? Regardless, Egypt was never called Mizraim. So why have they associated Mizraim with Egypt? Why is it that Egypt, with one of the best documented ancient histories in the world, has no record of Moses, ten plagues, mass exodus, slave labour, or the king being referred to as pharaoh, prior to 200 b.c.? Also, with over 700 references to Egypt or Egyptians found in the bible, I don’t think the pyramids are mentioned once. Who can go to Egypt and not mention the pyramids? Who has ever mentioned Egypt 700 times and not mentioned the pyramids?
The Hebrew says exodus happened in Mizraim. The Pharisees claimed Mizraim and Egypt are the same place. So my problem isn’t with what the scripture says, it’s with what the Pharisees said about the scripture says.
“What do the laws of Ma’at profit Who is the recipient of the honor? And what do the participants expect?”
As I’m sure you know, ancient Egyptians believed the death of the body is not the end of life. It is believed that One living spirit is inherent in, and the true essence of all life, and that upon the death of the body, the spirit is released from the bondage of matter to continue on its journey back into the oneness of all. Ma’at represents morality, law, truth and justice. Like the Ten Commandments, the 42 laws of Ma’at are basically 42 principles which make up a sound code of ethics .
It is said that when the body dies, the spirit travels to the halls of justice where the petitioner makes 42 pronouncements, claiming that he/she has lived in accordance with 42 laws. Whether or not the petitioner is telling the truth, is determined by weighing the guilt on his/her heart/conscience, against the feather of truth. Whether or not the petitioner felt guilt for his/her transgressions in physical life makes no difference, with the absence of the ego, the truth is laid bare in the halls of justice. The scales are set by Anubis, Osiris is the judge and the prosecutor is yours truly, Thoth/ Tehuti
If the petitioner is successful, they are guided to a heavenly existence in the next stage of their journey, and if they fail, they must experience every negative effects they caused, through the eyes of those they effected negatively. If, after this experience the petitioner has learned of, understands and can accept the effects of his/her transgressions, they may progress but only if they can forgive themselves. if the transgressions of the petitioner were so bad, that upon understanding the effects of their actions, the guilt is too much to bare, the petitioner will have a chaotic and unpleasant existence with others in similar situations, until they learn the lessons they need to learn.
So I guess by practicing the laws of Ma’at, the practitioner could hope to pass from physical life, when their time comes of course, with a clean conscience. What do the laws profit and who do they honor? The laws of Ma’at honor the principal of truth, justice, morality and order. I believe the profit of following these laws would be reaped not only by the practitioner, but also by anyone he/she comes in contact with.
Of course, like the 10 commandments, over time eventually nobody could follow the laws of Ma’at and the civilization fell from grace. The people started worshipping the personified images, instead of living by the principals which they were meant represent. Since then, many sociopaths have used the ancient wisdom and mystery traditions for the purpose of evil. Knowledge is power and I believe it is up to the free will of the one in possession to decide how they will use it. Just like I’m sure there are have been honest religious authority figures, and many tyrannical ones as well. I’ve studied freemasonry rather extensively, but it too was high jacked by “Jewish” Kabbalist’s. It appears harmless to the lesser ranks but some of the higher ranks require an oath to lucifer. No, thanks.
“Ever see Raiders of the Lost Ark? Are you, like Belloq?”
Yes, I’ve seen it. How dare you! Lol, that guy made my skin crawl, he was a thief and he worked for nazi’s. I know what you meant though and maybe I am, who knows? If that turns out to be the case, I’ll be glad to admit it and move on.
“Though they are not Judah, and they are not who they claim to be, they are indeed Semitic.”
How do you figure? Khazars are Semites? Says who? Some self respecting Israeli Jews will admit this. There are many Judaic authorities that confirm as many as 92% are not Semitic. DNA tests performed by Jewish geneticists have concluded that less than 3% of the world Jewish population is Semitic. Shlomo Sand, history professor from the Hebrew university or Tel Aviv, wrote the book, “the invention of the Jewish people”. Again, when this information is presented to the public, Zionist pressure groups explode with resentment.
“If you imagine that you’ve wrangled the genuine from your inquiry, and you’ve landed in a field which extols the virtues of mankind, then you are perhaps trapped in the labyrinth you think you escaped from, and that to a tragic degree”
I agree totally. The only question I would ask is, what do you mean virtues of mankind? Mankind in general seems to have sold its soul and is on the brink of self destruction, and many people are being deceived by influential figures into supporting evil.
“You may have taken too much with you along the way. You said so yourself.”
Why, because it upsets me that the history of what might have been the worlds greatest civilization was possibly defamed by “the synagogue of satan”? I think you might be taking my statement a little out of context. My love for the truth supersedes all other emotions that may arise in me throughout the course of my studies. I will follow the truth no matter it leads me. No matter what it implies.
I just simply don’t buy that the exodus happened in Egypt, due to the absence of any evidence in recorded Egyptian history. I don’t accept Hebrew scripture as proof, because I know who was in charge of those scriptures and I believe what Christ said about them. If the Pharisees were corrupt since before Nebuchadnezzar took them to Babylon, where they seemed to thrive, why should I accept the exodus happened in Egypt for no reason other than because they said it did? Like I said, the Hebrew says exodus happened in Mizraim, the Pharisees say Mizraim is Egypt.
“I believe there is a concentrated effort to disprove the scriptures.”
I’ll just hang that right there for possible future reference.
“I would think that he (Herzog) would want to find evidence of the things he mentioned, they would have been of great historical significance. Not only would finding these things have boosted his career, but the Zionists could have claimed the archeological evidence was further confirmation of the “legitimacy” of the apartheid Zionist state.”
But this calls for the operation of the man’s mind – which is not permitted in most courts of law, and should not be permitted in a dialogue such as this one for the same reasons. The fact is that numerous movements arguing for the vacancy of truth throughout the entire Bible, trace their roots to the Jewish people – Marxism, Communism and Progressivism to name but a few. Therefore, it is entirely possible that Herzog’s findings were agenda-driven, in that he could well have been an advocate for one (if not all) of the three ideologies just mentioned, as much of academia is. This too calls for speculation, but I raise the point only in objection to your suggestion that the man would naturally want to find what he proclaims he did not find. It is simply unwise to assume what you assume about this man. That’s not the same thing as saying you’re wrong in your assumption, but the fact is, we do not know, and I would suggest that the preponderance of the evidence weighs heavily against your suggestion. I suggest there are ample and somewhat universal motives for Herzog to WANT the very outcome that his search reportedly yielded. Your argument that Herzog would naturally have operated beyond the influence of these motives calls for faith. And I suggest that faith is grossly misplaced.
“So….”In effect you’ve just said: ‘I don’t believe any evidence of the kind you suggest exists, but if it does…”
Not so. My argument is that this particular ELEMENET demands to be factored into the EQUATION. This is not the same as earlier where you flatly rejected considering a certain kind of evidence on the grounds that you did not care for its ‘aura*.’ (*My word.)
“I’m not saying I disagree that there is a possibility that available evidence has been purposefully contaminated.”
I am aware of no conditions (in this world) under which that possibility has been eliminated entirely.
“I’m just wondering, why, when I suggest that Israeli archeologists may have contaminated evidence you question my approach to honesty and then you turn around and suggest the same thing could have been done by enemies of the word, in Egypt?”
If, in light of my latest explanation here, this objection of yours is not better explained by me, please say so and I will elaborate further. (And challenging your honesty is other than my intention. Your tactic in that case was all I intended to question.)
“I am here simply to share my opinion of what I believe to be the truth, based on the information I’ve gathered over the years…”
INFORMED opinion is often worth hearing and considering. I take your opinion to be informed. That is NOT the case, generally speaking, with the majority of contributors to this website. Opinion is virtually worthless. Informed opinion can carry with it a certain value.
“If God was displeased with the animal sacrifices for the atonement of sins, how could he approve the sacrifice of his son?”
Animal sacrifices were intended as a tool for teaching. This is expounded in the verses which describe King David as meditating upon the Law (and elsewhere in Scripture). The Law is intended as an instrument of instruction. Animal sacrifices were not the thing-in-itself, but were merely a shadow of the things to come.
“Why does this God require innocent blood?”
This question leads us invariably into the concept of sin, and the actual violence which sin does against a perfect creation. The debt for sin is a very steep debt, such that in order to extinguish that debt, a very steep price must be paid.
“If he did not require blood sacrifice and was actually disgusted by it, why would he send his son to die on the cross?”
The blood sacrifices the Almighty was disgusted with, were the inept and ineffectual sacrifices which the Israelites conducted at the seat of the altar. Those wicked Israelites had convinced themselves that the efficacy of animal blood was enough to purge away the bill left owing for their wrongdoing. The Israelites thought this because they had NOT meditated on the Law, the way King David had. The Israelites were transgressors, and, as such, their vain motions of Sabbath observance, animal sacrifice and other worship, were a stench in the nostrils of the Almighty. Excoriations of these practices from on High are not meant to be understood as invectives against the observances themselves, but only as an accusation against the execrable existence of the rebellious Israelites of that time.
“The way I understand it is that he was sent as the perfect sacrifice, to end all sacrifices so that all men and women could be forgiven for their sins.”
It is so that The Son was given as a perfect sacrifice to fulfill the requirement for sacrifice for sin. Those who partake of that Sacrifice will indeed be covered by the payment which was made. HOW to partake of that Sacrifice is of course a main thread woven throughout the entire Biblical Narrative. Far from all men and women avail themselves of the benefits of that Payment.
“But why could God not have just communicated with them, the same way he did with Moses and Abraham, and told them something like “look guys stop murdering my creations to atone for your sins, I’m disgusted by it, and I’ll forgive all your sins if you stop murdering my creation, in my name.”…”
This question highlights a misunderstanding of the instituted practice of animal sacrifice. The practice itself was never the abomination (despite all ill-informed objections of mankind); the unclean hearts of the practitioners was the abomination, and the fact that they vainly imagined themselves to be cleansed and justified by their empty gestures.
“He spoke the truth about their evil ways and they killed him for it.”
I am unsure of your implication here. Are you suggesting that the Messiah deserved to die because He accused the Pharisees and Sadducees?
“How can two words with entirely different letters end up translating to the same letters of the “Hebrew” alphabet? Especially when one word has 5 letters and the other has 7 letters?”
Is this any different than the words ‘Christian’ and ‘Nazarene’ both transforming to the identical Hebrew word? My main objection to your argument in this case, is that the Dead Sea documents reflect the identical word (Mizraim) in all cases (which is then almost universally translated as Egypt). Moreover, there are MANY names of places and of men which fit the exact same pattern. Look at ‘Cush’ and ‘Ethiopia’ for example. How about modern Libya? I do not agree that the objection you are making carries any of the weight you suggest it carries. Mizraim and Egypt are one and the same. Significant name alterations of this kind are not at all uncommon and are not the cause for concern over distortion or subterfuge which you fear they may be.
“…the Pharisees said Mizraim is Egypt…”
This change exists only in translation, THOTH. It is therefore not problematic. Vis. Cush and Ethiopia.
“…why have they associated Mizraim with Egypt…”
Place names were originally named after the sons (descendants) of Adam or the sons (descendants) of Noah.
“Why is it that Egypt, with one of the best documented ancient histories in the world, has no record of Moses, ten plagues, mass exodus, slave labour, or the king being referred to as pharaoh, prior to 200 b.c.?”
Why is it that the (prevailing) Roman record reflects no mention at all of Pontius Pilate? Yet we know that Pilate was the Roman prelate in the territory of Judea from numerous other (perfectly viable) historical sources. Absence of evidence does not carry the same weight of evidence.
“Who can go to Egypt and not mention the pyramids?”
There may only have been one pyramid at the time (the Great Pyramid) and it may have been completely (or nearly so) submerged in sand (a result of The Flood), as it was at the time of its discovery in the early 1800’s (For more on this, see Godfrey Higgins’ ‘Anacalypsis: An attempt to draw aside the veil of the Saitic Isis, or, an Inquiry into the origin of languages, nations and religions’.) That is but one possibility. Another possibility is that the pyramid didn’t warrant attention in Scripture. Yet another possibility is that the pyramid is mentioned in Scripture, but you and I are unsure of the author’s intended meaning.
“…my problem isn’t with what the scripture says, it’s with what the Pharisees said about the scripture says…”
I’m not sure what that leaves you objecting to. If your objection isn’t with Scripture, then why are we concerned with the objection?
“…the judge and the prosecutor is yours truly…”
Surely you mean to indicate your namesake.
“The laws of Ma’at honor the principal of truth, justice, morality and order.”
These are the very things to which the Masons and other initiates into the Mysteries devote their reverence and obeisance. The problem with that is, as it is explained in the written Word, devotion to these principles serves to idolize the principles – and not to properly reverence that which stands behind them, i.e., the Creator of All Things, who Himself is responsible for the very existence of these principles. Exalting the principles as they are found (genuinely or otherwise) to exist in us, serves only to exalt us.
“Since then, many sociopaths have used the ancient wisdom and mystery traditions for the purpose of evil.”
Consider the possibility of intended outcome. The same suggestion should be made for the founding documents and the founding principles of the United States: If these principles were institutionalized by Masons, who are at their core enemies of the biblical God, then how is it that anyone can suggest that the United States became what it became (which is, at its core, an enemy of the biblical God) in spite of the true intention of its Freemasonic founders? Rather, isn’t it more likely that the US became (and is becoming) precisely what it was always intended to become, and that works like ‘The New Atlantis’ (Bacon) and ‘The Secret Destiny of America’ (Hall) are not mistaken in their answer to this question? This pattern fits perfectly with what we find displayed for us in the Scriptures: how the treacherous deal most treacherously, and that a nation (one wonders which) was treacherous from its very beginning.
“Knowledge is power and I believe it is up to the free will of the one in possession to decide how they will use it.”
A man without a master is mastered by the nature of the Beast. Right-living and right-thinking come to us from without. We are never a source of true goodness or righteousness; only the similitude, the false image of that righteousness. Truth and all Righteousness come to us from on High, or not at all.
“I’ve studied freemasonry rather extensively, but it too was high jacked by “Jewish” Kabbalist’s.”
Freemasonry is kabbalistic at its very center. Masonry was not infiltrated by kabbalistic principles any more than the US was infiltrated by Marxist principles – those principles were seeded at the time the US and Masonry were established. Did Luciferian doctrine infiltrate the Catholic Church, or do these doctrines trace their roots to Catholicism’s inception? We find the latter is true, in all cases. Rome traces its roots to Babylon (exemplified by the Eagle). So too do the United States (exemplified by the Eagle) and Freemasonry (exemplified by that same deity’s representation) trace their roots to Babylon.
“I’ll be glad to admit it (comparison with Belloq) and move on.”
Digging in the wrong place was the extent of my comparison. (He was a dirty SOB, wasn’t he? I’m glad his face exploded.)
“Khazars are Semites? Says who?”
Scripture tells us that the modern inhabitants of Palestine (those who say they are Jews) are EDOMITES. Edom is Jacob’s brother. Jacob is Israel. Israel is a son of Shem, just as his TWIN brother Esau (Edom) is. How is that for deception? This can be found in Scripture in such a way that it is nearly missed by all. It was certainly missed by those who would have obscured the true meaning.
“…what do you mean virtues of mankind?”
I mean your above listed ‘principles’: “the principal of truth, justice, morality and order…”
“Mankind in general seems to have sold its soul and is on the brink of self destruction…”
I couldn’t agree with you more.
“Why, because it upsets me that the history of what might have been the worlds greatest civilization was possibly defamed by “the synagogue of satan”?”
We view these things dispassionately or we view them amiss. That is not to say we should be devoid of emotion, but the seeker after Truth will be burdened by excess baggage if he allows his emotions to influence his direction when he should be led by something other – something entirely outside of himself.
“My love for the truth supersedes all other emotions that may arise in me throughout the course of my studies.”
That is as it should be. But your (our) ability to rightly recognize Truth, as opposed to His counterfeit, while linked, is another matter entirely.
“I don’t accept Hebrew scripture as proof, because I know who was in charge of those scriptures and I believe what Christ said about them.”
Christ said the Word would be protected. Moreover, the Scriptures began to proliferate immediately upon their authorship, so it is incorrect to suggest that any one principality or power had all charge over the text. Even today, there are myriad manuscripts, in dozens of languages, with which to compare and to cross-reference. The Word has been transmitted to us across time, virtually unchanged and almost perfectly intact. This fact would never have been demonstrable without the (I would say miraculous) discovery of the Qumran Library. All arguments that Scripture has been hopelessly altered from its original state, fail completely in the light of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Islam rests on a broken pillar: namely the claim that Scripture has been massively altered from its original state. Qumran yielded insurmountable evidence that Islam is untrue in that claim. So too with that claim as it is voiced from any other quarter.
“…why should I accept the exodus happened in Egypt for no reason other than because they said it did?”
The Pharisees were not the authors of Scripture. And while the scribes may have been untrustworthy by nature, there were pharisaic rules for Scripture copyists which were among the most stringent imaginable. The Pharisees were worshippers of the Law. They tried to obey the Law perfectly. The reason they failed to do so was not owing to their practices, but owing to the fact that they did what they did for the wrong reason. The God of the Pharisees was the Law itself… and not, as it should have been, the Author of the Law. It is this distinction which causes a great number of us to misread the scriptural accusations against the Pharisees.
“Like I said, the Hebrew says exodus happened in Mizraim, the Pharisees say Mizraim is Egypt.”
The two are the same. Mizraim translates to Egypt in all cases, including:
Genesis 10:6
And the sons of Ham; Cush (Ethiopia), and Mizraim (Egypt), and Phut (a tribe of Persia), and Canaan.
The territory named after Mizraim IS Egypt. Again, they are the same thing, just as Ethiopia and Cush are the same.
“On the off-hand chance that my camp is correct, and there is a concentrated effort to marginalize (if not outright disprove) the Scriptures, then it is more than likely that Herzog had something to gain from his posture”
Absolutely, I believe there is a concentrated effort to disprove the scriptures. However, in Herzog’s case, I believe his statement conflicted his own interests. As an Israeli archeologist I would think that he would want to find evidence of the things he mentioned, they would have been of great historical significance. Not only would finding these things have boosted his career, but the Zionists could have claimed the archeological evidence was further confirmation of the “legitimacy” of the apartheid Zionist state.
With regards to the mentioning of no Moses, Israelites or any details of the exodus stories in the Egyptian historical record, you stated.
“Another helpful hint would be to consider the possibility that the readily available pool of evidence has been purposefully contaminated by enemies of the Word.”
So….”In effect you’ve just said: ‘I don’t believe any evidence of the kind you suggest exists, but if it does, it’s probably fake anyway, so I don’t believe it even if it does exist.’ Not exactly a ‘scientific’ approach to honesty now, is it,” Walter.
I’m not saying I disagree that there is a possibility that available evidence has been purposefully contaminated. I’m just wondering, why, when I suggest that Israeli archeologists may have contaminated evidence after Herzog made his claim, you question my approach to honesty and then you turn around and suggest the same thing could have been done by enemies of the word, in Egypt?
“Or are you here only to extol the virtues of the Ancient Mysteries?”
No, I am here simply to share my opinion of what I believe to be the truth, based on the information I’ve gathered over the years. I was simply making a point that there was a time when ancient Egyptians lived according to these laws.
“No, THOTH. ALL self-proclaimed Christians and Jews cannot follow the Ten Commandments. This fact is made self-evident throughout the body of Scripture. It is for this very reason that we need Assistance.”
Good call, my bad..If they could have followed the commandments there would have been no need for the “perfect sacrifice”, the lamb of God. This is something I’ve always had a hard time with. If God was displeased with the animal sacrifices for the atonement of sins, how could he approve the sacrifice of his son? Why does this God require innocent blood? If he did not require blood sacrifice and was actually disgusted by it, why would he send his son to die on the cross?
The way I understand it is that he was sent as the perfect sacrifice, to end all sacrifices so that all men and women could be forgiven for their sins. But why could God not have just communicated with them, the same way he did with Moses and Abraham, and told them something like “look guys stop murdering my creations to atone for your sins, I’m disgusted by it, and I’ll forgive all your sins if you stop murdering my creation, in my name.”
Also, I know if I was guilty of a crime punishable by death, I could not let an innocent person take the blame and continue to live with myself. I believe that Jesus openly rebuking the Pharisees had a lot to do with him being crucified. He spoke the truth about their evil ways and they killed him for it.
“Re your claims vis-à-vis Egypt and Mizraim… I would be happy to review any supporting material you might like to submit into evidence”
Mizraim = מצרים Egypt also = מצרים
How can two words with entirely different letters end up translating to the same letters of the “Hebrew” alphabet? Especially when one word has 5 letters and the other has 7 letters?
If מצרים is the location of which Moses led the exodus out of, מצרים translates to Mizraim (mitsrayim) So how does one get Egypt out of Mizraim? Because the Pharisees said Mizraim is Egypt? Im obviously no expert on the Hebrew language but I would think Egypt might have Gimel, Yod, Pe, Tav, no? Regardless, Egypt was never called Mizraim. So why have they associated Mizraim with Egypt?
Why is it that Egypt, with one of the best documented ancient histories in the world, has no record of Moses, ten plagues, mass exodus, slave labour, or the king being referred to as pharaoh, prior to 200 b.c.? Also, with over 700 references to Egypt or Egyptians found in the bible, I don’t think the pyramids are mentioned once. Who can go to Egypt and not mention the pyramids? Who has ever mentioned Egypt 700 times and not mentioned the pyramids?
The Hebrew says exodus happened in Mizraim. The Pharisees claimed Mizraim and Egypt are the same place. So my problem isn’t with what the scripture says,(Mizraim), it’s with what the Pharisees said about the what scripture says.
“What do the laws of Ma’at profit Who is the recipient of the honor? And what do the participants expect?”
As I’m sure you know, ancient Egyptians believed the death of the body is not the end of life. It is believed that One living spirit is inherent in, and is the true essence of all life, and that upon the death of the body, the spirit is released from the bondage of matter to continue on its journey back into the oneness of all. All of the different personifications were originally meant to represent different aspects of the creative spirit. Ma’at represents morality, law, truth and justice. Like the Ten Commandments, the 42 laws of Ma’at are basically 42 principles which make up a sound code of ethics .
It is said that when the body dies, the spirit travels to the halls of justice where the petitioner makes 42 pronouncements, claiming that he/she has lived in accordance with 42 laws. Whether or not the petitioner is telling the truth, is determined by weighing the guilt on his/her heart/conscience, against the feather of truth. Whether or not the petitioner felt guilt for his/her transgressions in physical life makes no difference, with the absence of the ego, the truth is laid bare in the halls of justice. The scales are set by Anubis, Osiris is the judge and the prosecutor is yours truly, Thoth/ Tehuti
If the petitioner is successful, they are guided to a heavenly existence in the next stage of their journey, and if they fail, they must experience every negative effect they caused, through the eyes of those they effected negatively. If, after this experience the petitioner has learned of, understands and can accept the effects of his/her transgressions, they may progress but only if they can forgive themselves. Self forgiveness can be a difficult process with the absence of mans ego..
If the transgressions of the petitioner were so bad, that upon understanding the effects of their actions, the guilt is too much to bare, the petitioner will have a chaotic and unpleasant existence with others in similar situations, until they learn the lessons they need to learn.
So I guess by practicing the laws of Ma’at, the practitioner could hope to pass from physical life, when their time comes of course, with a clean conscience. What do the laws profit and who do they honor? The laws of Ma’at honor the principal of truth, justice, morality and order. I believe the profit of following these laws would be reaped not only by the practitioner, but also by anyone he/she comes in contact with.
Of course, like the 10 commandments, over time eventually nobody could follow the laws of Ma’at and the civilization fell from grace. The people started worshipping the personified images, instead of living by the principals which they were originally meant represent. Since then, many sociopaths have used the ancient wisdom and mystery traditions for the purpose of evil.
The application of knowledge is power and I believe it is up to the free will of the one in possession to decide how they will apply it. Just like I’m sure there are have been honest religious authority figures, and many tyrannical ones as well. I’ve studied freemasonry rather extensively, but it too was high jacked by Talmudic Kabbalist’s. It appears harmless to the lesser ranks but some of the higher ranks require an oath to lucifer. No, thanks.
“Ever see Raiders of the Lost Ark? Are you, like Belloq?”
Yes, I’ve seen it. How dare you!
that guy made my skin crawl, he was a thief and he worked for nazi’s. I know what you meant though and maybe I am, looking in the wrong place, who knows? If that turns out to be the case, I’ll be glad to admit it and move on.
“Though they are not Judah, and they are not who they claim to be, they are indeed Semitic.”
How do you figure? Khazars are Semites? Says who? Some self respecting Israeli Jews will admit this. There are many Judaic authorities that confirm as many as 92% are not Semitic. DNA tests performed by Jewish geneticists have concluded that less than 3% of the world Jewish population is Semitic. Shlomo Sand, history professor from the Hebrew university or Tel Aviv, wrote the book, “the invention of the Jewish people”. Again, when this information is presented to the public, Zionist pressure groups explode with resentment.
“If you imagine that you’ve wrangled the genuine from your inquiry, and you’ve landed in a field which extols the virtues of mankind, then you are perhaps trapped in the labyrinth you think you escaped from, and that to a tragic degree”
I agree totally. The only question I would ask is, what do you mean virtues of mankind? Mankind in general seems to have sold its soul and to be on the brink of self destruction, and many people are being deceived by influential figures into supporting evil.
“You may have taken too much with you along the way. You said so yourself.”
Why, because it upsets me that the history of what might have been the worlds greatest civilization was possibly defamed by “the synagogue of satan”? I think you might be taking my statement a little out of context. My love for the truth supersedes all other emotions that may arise in me throughout the course of my studies. I will follow the truth no matter it leads me. No matter what it implies.
I just simply don’t buy that the exodus happened in Egypt, due to the absence of any evidence in recorded Egyptian history. I don’t accept Hebrew scripture as proof, because I know who was in charge of those scriptures and I believe what Christ said about them. If the Pharisees were corrupt since before Nebuchadnezzar took them to Babylon, where they seemed to thrive, why should I accept the exodus happened in Egypt for no reason, other than because they said it did? Like I said, the Hebrew says exodus happened in Mizraim, the Pharisees say Mizraim is Egypt.
Walter
I am having a very difficult time getting my comments to post. I keep getting glitches and error reports as soon as I click reply…It took me 4.5 hours to get my last comment to post, and I see it shows up more than once now. Wtf
I’ve had this problem before as well, it gets frustrating, but I’ll read your comment and come up with a reply and hope this site will allow me to contribute it.
Walter,
Regarding Herzog,you stated
“But this calls for the operation of the man’s mind – which is not permitted in most courts of law, and should not be permitted in a dialogue”
I believe that Herzog, being the head of the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University, would qualify as a credible witness in most courts of law, if such a case ever arose where his field of information was required. I also believe, that if he was being questioned on the stand, it’s possible his claim could be considered a statement against his own interests, which are normally considered to be truthful by interrogators.
However, you do raise a very good point when you later stated “The fact is that numerous movements arguing for the vacancy of truth throughout the entire Bible, trace their roots to the Jewish people – Marxism, Communism and Progressivism to name but a few.” This is entirely possible, Herzog could have represented one, or all of these groups, and if that could be proven, conflict of interest might dismiss him as credible to testify in court.
“This is not the same as earlier where you flatly rejected considering a certain kind of evidence on the grounds that you did not care for its ‘aura*.’ (*My word.)”
I never said I wouldn’t consider evidence I simply said I don’t believe there is ample evidence and I stated why as well. I finished my statement about archeological evidence found after 99 by saying,
“It would not be the first time an archeologist planted “evidence” to give credibility to a claim with no existing evidence, “Piltdown man” comes to mind.”
With regards to the complete lack of evidence pertaining to the exodus in Egyptian history. You suggested,
“Another helpful hint would be to consider the possibility that the readily available pool
of evidence has been purposefully contaminated by enemies of the Word.”
I don’t see how the two statements are much different. Again, yes it’s possible but until it’s proven, there is still no conclusive explanation as to why there is no mention of the exodus in Egyptian history. That being said, it is equally possible and reasonable to assume that the reason there is no mention of Moses or any mass exodus in Egyptian history, is because it didn’t happen there.
“I’m not sure what that leaves you objecting to. If your objection isn’t with Scripture, then why are we concerned with the objection?”
I don’t object that the Hebrew Scriptures say the exodus happened in Mizraim. I have heard Egypt called many things, Khemet, Kmt, Khem, hwt-ka-Ptah, Copt, Gypt, even Bhu-Whizzer, but never have I heard Egypt called Mizraim by anyone, prior to the Hebrew to Greek translations performed by the Pharisees. It also seems strange to me that Herodotus would wander all over the area in 500 B.C. and make no mention of Israelites, or a Jewish temple in his accounts of Palestine. Should they not have been returned from Babylon and rebuilding their temple at this time? Surely he would have documented that, as one would suspect that would be a pretty big deal. Because of these things, and a complete lack of any exodus evidence in Egyptian historical records, I believe it’s possible that the reason for the absence of all these things is because the exodus didn’t happen in Egypt.
“…the judge and the prosecutor is yours truly…”
Surely you mean to indicate your namesake.
No, I mean literally….Of course I was referring to my namesake.
“INFORMED opinion is often worth hearing and considering. I take your opinion to be informed. That is NOT the case, generally speaking, with the majority of contributors to this website. Opinion is virtually worthless. Informed opinion can carry with it a certain value.”
The feeling is mutual, Walter. RESPECT.
I must say though, you remind me of a well informed contributor I conversed with on a few occasions a while back, who’s name had to do with meat…I don’t want to say, in case it is you, and there is a reason you switched accounts..
Thank you for your clarifications regarding my questions about the bible.
Regarding the crucifixion you asked,
“I am unsure of your implication here. Are you suggesting that the Messiah deserved to die because He accused the Pharisees and Sadducees”
NO! Absolutely not. I wasn’t implying anything, I was simply stating the obvious, that he spoke the truth about them and they killed him for it. There are some people who refuse to acknowledge that this played a factor in him being crucified. Some people believe he was crucified only to absolve their sins.
“Freemasonry is kabbalistic at its very center. Masonry was not infiltrated by kabbalistic principles any more than the US was infiltrated by Marxist principles – those principles were seeded at the time the US and Masonry were established”
No doubt that the U.S. is becoming exactly what it was intended to be. It is the military and ATM of the luciferian money masters. It’s government ranks are filled with communo-fascist sociopathic puppets, who use taxpayer dollars to fund aggressive wars all over globe, to further their own totalitarian agenda. They have privatized and purchased nearly everything of material value. They have exported much of all western industry causing countless lost jobs, in favor of employing slave labour in 3rd world countries. When their goal is achieved, they will collapse the economy leave America and the world with nothing but total satanic despotism.
Freemasonry, is much older than the United States or Marxist communism. Freemasonry was infiltrated, starting in 1776 by agents of Adam Weishaupt’s Bavarian illuminati. Phre-Mas-Sens , or “Sons Of Light” have been around a very long time.
“Did Luciferian doctrine infiltrate the Catholic Church, or do these doctrines trace their roots to Catholicism’s inception?”
Like the 70 Pharisees, plus the chief rabbi, or high priest being the 71st make up the Sanhedrin, so is the college of cardinals made up of 70, with the pope being the 71st acting as the high priest. Both organizations claim to mediator between God and man, which negates the purpose of Jesus. Both organizations claim the ability to absolve people of their sins. Both claim that there is no salvation outside of their organizations. Both have their alters of sacrifice with vessels of gold and silver. Both wear their skullcaps. The two organizations worked together to crucify Christ in the past.
Catholicism, I believe was created as a subversion meant to undermine the teachings of the bible, by attracting followers with claims of being a Christian organization, and then indoctrinating their followers in Babylonian rites and rituals. Catholicism my well represent the beast of revelations, as far as I’m concerned.
“Digging in the wrong place was the extent of my comparison.”
I know, I was joking around.
“He was a dirty SOB, wasn’t he? I’m glad his face exploded.”
I F’n laughed when I read this. Absolutely, he was, his face deserved to explode and I’m glad that other pervert’s face melted off as well.
“Scripture tells us that the modern inhabitants of Palestine..”
The information you present here is interesting and I have considered this before as well. Don’t the scriptures also say that the biblical land of Ashkenaz was allotted to Gomer? Khazaria is the true homeland of the Ashkenazi Jews. Khazars have claimed to be descendants of Gog, of Magog, the leader of a great army that attacks the land of Israel. I believe this fits with what’s going on today.
“I mean your above listed ‘principles’: “the principal of truth, justice, morality and order…”
I was simply attempting to prove a point, that at one point in time in the far distant past, these words meant something to people, and that a barbarous culture could not have came up with such laws.
“The Pharisees were not the authors of Scripture”
I realize this, they claimed authority of mosaic laws and equated their own perverted oral traditions, later written down as the Talmud, with the authority of scripture. Today rabbinic Judaism considers the Talmud to be the highest authority.
Obviously, there are certain things we will need to agree to disagree, for now. Nobody can change anyone’s mind about anything, but I respect your well informed opinion regardless if it differs from mine.
Herzog an acceptable expert witness in court?
Absolutely. But when I see academia, I see a group of people who are in most cases outright hostile to the Scriptures. Are there exceptions? Have you seen what happens to folks who try to buck that tiger?
You wrote:
“…there is still no conclusive explanation as to why there is no mention of the exodus in Egyptian history.”
For the record, I don’t concede the point – namely that there is no mention of the Exodus in Egypt’s recorded history. I haven’t looked, so you may or may not be right. But for the moment, let’s just say you are right. You stated:
“…it is equally possible and reasonable to assume that the reason there is no mention of Moses or any mass exodus in Egyptian history, is because it didn’t happen there.”
Of course that’s possible (in court and in debate, it’s possible. In my mind it is not possible…). What else is possible? If the Bible is correct, then Egypt was left DECIMATED after the Exodus. The land had been battered by plagues. All the firstborn had very recently died. The governmental and military structure had been eviscerated and the land had been plunged into a period of absolute darkness for days. Pharaoh was either dead or missing. The riches of the people had been plundered. Their agricultural framework had been totally devastated. The land was in such a state of chaos that it likely took the survivors years to completely restore order and cleanliness and sanity. Now I ask you… where were the historians coming from to record all of this? Who had time to compose notes and to draft documents? And later on, when order had been restored… what was the true state of things in that land? Did the survivors who remembered the Israelites even DARE to say their name out loud. Out of fear? Out of hatred? The hatred we have an example of: Those today calling themselves Jews do not allow the name of Jesus to be spoken in their homes, or in their schools, or in their offices or in their synagogues. That name is virtually stricken from the record. In fact, a variant of the name is sometimes used which is an acronym for ‘may his name be blotted out.’ But He is real. Just as the Israelite Exodus from Egypt was real. And in the absence of evidence in the Egyptian record (which I haven’t looked for), I can think of MANY perfectly sound, perfectly legitimate reasons to explain such an absence, if indeed there is one. And that, to say nothing of actual tampering with the historic records themselves.
Surely the Egyptians who survived that time period wanted nothing to do with the Israelites ever again, and would have done all that they could to ERASE that people from their memory. And perhaps they did.
“I (never) heard Egypt called Mizraim by anyone, prior to the Hebrew to Greek translations performed by the Pharisees.”
See the Dead Sea Scrolls. There are complete manuscripts of Deuteronomy, Isaiah, and virtually complete manuscripts of many others. Then there are the fragments which have been compiled. Anyone can review this material. Mizraim is the Hebrew word for Egypt. It really is that simple. What’s the German word for Germany? It sure as hell ain’t ‘Germany.’ You get the picture.
“It also seems strange to me that Herodotus would wander all over the area in 500 B.C. and make no mention of Israelites, or a Jewish temple in his accounts of Palestine.”
I make mention of the discrepancy between calendars, yet again. Are we really in synch? Who knows what Greek minds were searching for in that land, or when they were really there, according to the Hebrew timeline.
“I believe it’s possible that the reason for the absence of all these things is because the exodus didn’t happen in Egypt.”
But because you’re interested in knowing the truth, you will be sure to look for evidence surrounding that event, but outside of Egypt. Yes? (Just Google archeological evidence of the Exodus from Egypt.)
“No, I mean literally….Of course I was referring to my namesake.”
Just checking, friend. You would not be the first to claim he was actually THOTH or Hermes. Far from it.
Yes, THOTH. I am BEEF SUPREME. A ‘friend’ of ours made a duplicate of that account. Our ‘friend’ then proceeded to drag that name through the mud all over these BIN boards. Thus, Walter from ‘The Big Lebowski’ is the new name and avatar, and no longer the mute, monster truck-driving rehabilitation officer from ‘Idiocracy.’.
“…he spoke the truth about them and they killed him for it.”
They sure did. Lots of folks have a problem with that ‘truth’ thing, don’t they – Marxists and Academics, and such. First they’ll try to run you off. Eventually they’ll just kill you.
“When their goal is achieved, they will collapse the economy leave America and the world with nothing but total satanic despotism.”
Tomorrow? I hope not.
“Freemasonry was infiltrated, starting in 1776 by agents of Adam Weishaupt’s Bavarian illuminati.”
I’ll see it differently than that, you can be sure. I see Weishaupt’s machinations as a convenient excuse. Weishaupt was just one of those proverbial leopards whose spots never change, so he was. He came from one organization to another (which some say is not really another) and no one ever says he infiltrated the first. The motions were all apparent, but were they real?
“Catholicism, I believe was created as a subversion meant to undermine the teachings of the bible, by attracting followers with claims of being a Christian organization, and then indoctrinating their followers in Babylonian rites and rituals. Catholicism my well represent the beast of revelations, as far as I’m concerned.”
You leave me little to argue with here. I would also agree that the Roman Rite is A fulfillment of the Beast of Revelation. But there will also be a singular entity in whom that prophecy finds its perfect fulfillment – a point on which Scripture is unambiguous.
“I F’n laughed when I read this. Absolutely, he was, his face deserved to explode and I’m glad that other pervert’s face melted off as well.”
[First time I ever saw ‘Raiders’ in the theater, I entered in before the previous showing had finished. THAT is the scene which was playing at the time. I saw that before anything else. And those were some good special effects for the time.]
“Don’t the scriptures also say that the biblical land of Ashkenaz was allotted to Gomer?”
Without checking, I seem to recall Gomer being the father of Ashkenaz. I’ll have to review.
“Khazaria is the true homeland of the Ashkenazi Jews.”
Did you see the comment left on the board by ‘The Ferret’? Good stuff. Here’s the link:
/prophecy/2015/06/the-shaking-has-begun-evidence-for-an-unstoppable-catastrophic-nightmare-there-is-little-time-left-2470186.html
(I now see he left a reply to our replies. I haven’t read that far yet.)
“Khazars have claimed to be descendants of Gog, of Magog, the leader of a great army that attacks the land of Israel. I believe this fits with what’s going on today.”
I find that entirely possible. But the identity of this ‘Gog’ remains elusive. His people seem to be well identified, however. And the very obscure nomenclature used in Scripture would make sense, considering the deception in which these people are wrapped up.
“Obviously, there are certain things we will need to agree to disagree, for now. Nobody can change anyone’s mind about anything, but I respect your well informed opinion regardless if it differs from mine.”
For the record, THOTH – I’m not trying to change your mind. My intent here is to show that a model I think you’ve dismissed entirely, is not quite as worthy to be dismissed as you believe. I intend only to show that the possibilities I mention are very viable, and that where our prevailing historical and archeological records APPARENTLY reflect that certain biblical claims have been shut out as being untrue or non-credible, that we do well to question further. We do well to look PAST these various academics and their findings, and to explore the areas they have (perhaps intentionally) left untouched.
So too with any claim that Scripture has been violated and changed from its original state. This claim could NEVER have been shown as conclusively false as it can now, without the archaeological discovery in Qumran. But we have that data available to us, so we do well to incorporate it into our view of these things as well. The evidence exists. It always does. In my experience, when looking for confirmation of ANYTHING written about in the Bible, there are always pitfalls and dead ends. But perseverance is rewarded in the end. And over time, the evidence mounts, and it mounts conclusively in one direction only. That is, in favor of each and every claim the Bible ever makes. It’s all there in the physical record. It’s there in the natural, the geological record. And it’s in the biological record. No doubt that liars would have their way, and insist they’ve proven otherwise. But time beats them down in all cases and shows them by the light in which they truly stand.
It’s all there to see, THOTH. Those of us who demand solid evidence, can find that evidence if we really look.
It’s always a pleasure reading your comments and engaging in dialogue with you.
Walter
“…it is equally possible and reasonable to assume that the reason there is no mention of Moses or any mass exodus in Egyptian history, is because it didn’t happen there.”
“Of course that’s possible (in court and in debate, it’s possible. In my mind it is not possible…)”
What about when you said, “But this calls for the operation of the man’s mind,… and should not be permitted in a dialogue”?
“Surely the Egyptians who survived that time period wanted nothing to do with the Israelites ever again, and would have done all that they could to ERASE that people from their memory. And perhaps they did.”
Indeed, this is possible. My response is that Akhenaten caused massive calamity in Egypt by trying to bring back a monotheistic ideology of one creative force being responsible for all creation. Egypt was in a state of chaos, as many people were worshipping different personified icon’s and fighting over which icon represented what. Everything had lost its meaning. Akhenaten is known as the heretic king, because as ruler he tried to re-establish that all the different icons were all originally meant to represent different aspects of the one intelligent creative spirit. The people resented him, as they were not ready to give up their idol worship. Priestly authorities hated him for it, as they were used to being the ones who controlled religion and the economy. He challenged their authority, and they killed him for it. His name was not to be spoken, ever. It is known that resentful Egyptians did all they could to erase his name from history, but to no avail. His city, Tel-el-Amarna was dismantled and shipped away to different parts of the world, his face was chipped away from most wall carvings. Despite their efforts, his presence was so significant that they failed in their attempts. There is no question he existed and there are numerous articles of antiquity to prove he existed. I’m not saying he was right, or wrong. I’m just saying that it seems there is only so much that can be destroyed when your history is written in stone.
“Just Google archeological evidence of the Exodus from Egypt.”
I am aware they found chariot wheels, weapons and bones on the bottom of the gulf of Suez. Although it is possible, I feel it’s quite a stretch to say those articles came from the exodus. Egypt fought many wars with chariots that could have resulted in articles at the bottom of the gulf.
The Egyptian army was far too powerful to be defeated by an uprising of slaves, which there is no record of them using before 200 B.C. If the Israelites truly displayed miraculous feats in Egypt that confirmed God favored them over Egypt, surely someone would have documented it, but still there is no mention of them. For the longest time we were told that Egyptians slaved Jews to build the pyramids. That was a mistake and nearly no historian will dispute that anymore. Archeologists claim to have found the housing of those who worked on the pyramids, along with records of being paid and well fed. The great pyramid is a geometrical masterpiece, unprecedented to this day in terms of its nearly flawless accuracy. Hardly the work of slaves with simple copper tools. It is more likely to be the work of highly skilled artisans. “Man fears time, but time fears the pyramid.”
“Just checking, friend. You would not be the first to claim he was actually THOTH or Hermes. Far from it”
Good looking out. I may be a little crazy, but I’m not THAT crazy.
BEEF, I knew it was you. Good to have you back.
“They sure did. Lots of folks have a problem with that ‘truth’ thing, don’t they – Marxists and Academics, and such”
Yes, the truth hurts some people, but normally the reason the truth hurts them is because they are living a lie. Unfortunately for those who have a problem with the truth, I am not going away.
“And over time, the evidence mounts, and it mounts conclusively in one direction only. That is, in favor of each and every claim the Bible ever makes. It’s all there in the physical record. It’s there in the natural, the geological record.”
This is the problem I have, the physical record is void of any evidence of the exodus happening in Egypt. To me it’s hard to imagine that such a profound and historically influential event, went unrecorded. Who knows, maybe one day they will dig from the sands of Egypt an artifact or two, or many which confirm the account of the biblical exodus, and if that happens I will put my foot in my mouth and repent, but for now I’m not buying it.
“But there will also be a singular entity in whom that prophecy finds its perfect fulfillment – a point on which Scripture is unambiguous.”
Agreed.
“[First time I ever saw ‘Raiders’ in the theater…”
When I read, “I’m glad his face exploded” I pictured the scene from the movie, in my minds eye and burst out laughing. No doubt, those effects were awesome. They didn’t know what they were messing with . Did a foreign army not steal the ark, only to send it back on an unmanned chariot? If so, old Belloq must have missed that one…Oh well, his face exploded and I slept like a baby, that’s all that matters.
“Did you see the comment left on the board by ‘The Ferret’? Good stuff. Here’s the link:”
I have now, very well presented, thanks for the link.
“It’s always a pleasure reading your comments and engaging in dialogue with you.”
Again, the feeling is mutual.
Just to clarify a few last points…
“What about when you said, “But this calls for the operation of the man’s mind,… and should not be permitted in a dialogue”?”
I was objecting to your presumptions about the man’s motive. You suggested there would have been no reason for him to falsify his findings to attain the result he attained, or at least that he would have had more reason to find another way in order to appease…
That suggestion called for the operation of the man’s mind – which obviously neither you nor I are privy to.
“The Egyptian army was far too powerful to be defeated by an uprising of slaves, which there is no record of them using before 200 B.C.”
No one ever said the Egyptian army was defeated by any Israelite power. The Israelites had nothing to do with it.
“If the Israelites truly displayed miraculous feats in Egypt that confirmed God favored them over Egypt, surely someone would have documented it…”
Not, perhaps, if the events were followed almost immediately by widespread destruction and chaos, delivered by the forces of nature.
“For the longest time we were told that Egyptians slaved Jews to build the pyramids.”
Idle speculation, that. That’s the kind of thing which comes solely from men’s imagination.
“The great pyramid is a geometrical masterpiece…”
The Great Pyramid is antediluvian. That’s why it was practically buried with sand (mixed with billions of sea shells) when they found it. I mentioned above the true geological record reflecting Biblical claims. Here’s a worthy (but old and low recording quality – as the best videos often are) video about the age of the Earth, apart from the mainstream propaganda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W12jUKnPbHI&feature=youtu.be
“If so, old Belloq must have missed that one…”
The characters from ‘Raiders’ weren’t exactly Bible experts. Said Marcus Brody as the g-men were recruiting Indy for his mission at the beginning of the movie: “The Bible speaks of the ark leveling mountains and laying waste to entire regions…”
Ummmm… No it doesn’t.
Re the comment by Ferret – looks like he should have named himself ‘Weasel’ instead. He’s an outspoken Bible guy who just got caught with his hand in the plagiarism cookie jar. That’s a no gouda.
Walter
I totally agree, the pyramid was built before the flood. Obviously it was an advanced civilization that built it. A civilization that must have taken a very long time to develope to that level of sophistication. I believe that there is no telling how long civilization has existed for, and that civilizations have risen and fallen like the sun rises and sets, in cyclical fashion. I’m into this sort of study, big time. Thanks for the video link, I’ll check it out when I have some extra time. I’ll check out that book you referred to me as well.
Thanks
“…if the Old Testament is no longer relevant, why is Abraham…?”
Abraham and the Covenant/Contract that HaYah made with him,
was before the Covenant/Contract of the 10 Words ( also called Commandments)
which Moses recorded.
Then beyond that:
There is a distinction between the Covenant/Contract of the 10 Words,
and all of the other writings in the TNKH, Tanach, ( history, prophets, psalms, wisdom)
There is also a distinction between the ‘law of Moses”, and HaYah’s Law_Jeremiah 31:31 the New Covenant/Contract Law, that He puts into the inward parts of His Kids, and writes upon their hearts.
____
And, in the early assembly of ‘called out ones’, ( church)
Jeremiah 31:31 was a New Covenant Scripture which they had to read.
____
“How does a New Testament Christian understand Paul’s teaching
if they don’t believe the Old Testament is relative today? ”
As for me, within Paul’s writings there is major heresy, so
Paul is not a factor for determining anything.
According to Yah’shua, there is only one Shepherd, and Paul is not that.
_____
Concerning Matthew 5:17-19
_ nothing abolished until all is fulfilled. ( Period) He stopped there,
He did not say ‘until all of the law is fulfilled’……, He just said ‘fulfilled’.
Luke 24:44_Yah’shua says that all was fulfilled….done deal, it is finished.
____
“The law – minus the rituals – found in the Old Testament are indeed appropriate and applicable to all Israelites today.”
So, surely you are not advocating from that law of Moses, that
true Israelis should practice the laws of
murdering your enemies young and old, killing pregnant women _abortion,
taking virgins, making them slaves, raping them,
possessing them as property ( 10th Word?Commandment about covetousness ),
stoning to death those who practice adultery, taking war to the ends of the earth if necessary to murder some more… and on and on ???
That behavior to be Taught is in the “law of Moses”.
___
But praise be to Him:
Jeremiah 31:31_New Covenant Law of HaYah.
They were at the bottom of his sock drawer all the time!
“It was impossible for the sinner to keep the law of God, which was holy, just, and good; but this impossibility was removed by the impartation of the righteousness of Christ to the repenting, believing soul. The life and death of Christ in behalf of sinful man were for the purpose of restoring the sinner to God’s favor, through imparting to him the righteousness that would meet the claims of the law and find acceptance with the Father.
But it is ever the purpose of Satan to make void the law of God and to pervert the true meaning of the plan of salvation. Therefore he has originated the falsehood that the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary’s cross was for the purpose of freeing men from the obligation of keeping the commandments of God. He has foisted upon the world the deception that God has abolished His constitution, thrown away His moral standard, and made void His holy and perfect law. Had He done this, at what terrible expense would it have been to Heaven! Instead of proclaiming the abolition of the law, Calvary’s cross proclaims in thunder tones its immutable and eternal character. Could the law have been abolished, and the government of heaven and earth and the unnumbered worlds of God maintained, Christ need not have died. The death of Christ was to forever settle the question of the validity of the law of Jehovah. Having suffered the full penalty for a guilty world, Jesus became the Mediator between God and man, to restore the repenting soul to favor with God by giving him grace to keep the law of the Most High. Christ came not to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfill them to the very letter. The atonement of Calvary vindicated the law of God as holy, just, and true, not only before the fallen world but before heaven and before the worlds unfallen. Christ came to magnify the law and to make it honorable.” -Faith and Works page 118
We don’t keep the Ten Commandments to get Jesus in us. It is when we accept Him and receive in us that we keep them. Think of it this way… People in the prisons are NOT released from prison on parole until they can prove they will keep the laws of the land. Why would the Almighty be any different? Why would He let those that break His law into His kingdom? If you can’t keep the laws of His land, why should He let you into it? Now do you understand why it is written in, Revelation 22:14, “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
The awesome think about the New Covenant is that Jesus will HELP us keep His Law!
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” -1 John 5:3,
http://www.remnantofgod.org/The-Law.htm
“We don’t keep the Ten Commandments to get Jesus in us. It is when we accept Him and receive in us that we keep them.”
We sure enough do! If you fail to adhere to the Law, or the Ten Commandments and don’t repent you cannot receive God or Jesus, they will not reside within sin. Believe what you will, but the process of accepting Jesus means first and foremost that you know who he is. False depictions of him are irrelevant and DO NOT ESTABLISH A RELATIONSHIP OR FORGIVENESS THROUGH GOD”S SON.
We keep the commandments, we love our neighbors as ourselves because we desire to be righteous in the eyes of our Heavenly Father. Like minded Christ simplified understanding of the Law. Honoring that Law is required in order for anyone to receive everlasting life in the Kingdom of God, a Kingdom that is coming to earth in the not so distant future.
Just-My-Opinion
ENKI told the people a long long time ago, (LONG BEFORE ANY RELIGION WAS EVEN CONTEMPLATED) after he got tired of them praising him every day outside his living quarters:
STOP THAT! THERE IS NO GODS, WE ARE NOT GODS, WE ARE HUMANS JUST LIKE YOU! EVERYTHING WE CAN DO YOU CAN DO TO! ALL YOU NEED IS TO NURTURE AND GIVE EACH OTHER LOVE!
Yes and no! He did say that but others of his family did say they knew more.
AND NO! We can not do in our present state all the things they can do. It’s quite the opposite they will do for us WHAT WE CANNOT DO! Namely getting rid of 2 rebel races that want to enslave us and the filthy alliances they have ALONG WITH the humans supporting them!
WE ARE THE ORDER OF ENKI! STOP BABBLING AS IF ALL THAT IS WRITTEN IS AS IS NOW! YOU ARE NO PRIEST NOR TEMPLAR AND HAVE NO BANDAR WITH YOU! I DO AND HE TELLS THAT MUCH CHANGED JUST AS THE REVEALING OF GODDESS INANNA BEING THE VIRGIN MARY WHOM THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT YOU OUGHT TO KNOW!
Dave,
where do you get this malarkey? You must stay up all night devising cunning ways of misleading those who are in these end times actively seeking God? The “New Covenant” as give by Jesus merely condensed the Law into one more understandable obligation. Contrary to popular belief the coming of the Messiah did not “fulfill the law” Christ fulfilled the prophesy of his coming, he did not ever remove God’s Law. Jesus Christ’s primary role in God’s plan was to become our eternal “Passover Sacrifice.” Christ’s blood when spilled provided similar protection for God’s people from His wrath of as did the blood of the unblemished lambs sacrificed and painted on their doorways did during the final plague imposed on the Egyptians prior to the exodus spared.
Scripture is quite open about this reality, yet there are those who are intent on stumbling others in their quest for self glorification and reverence. Instead of admitting their confusion they pridefully fabrication, using their human intellect and imagination in absence of God’s Spirit Misery does so love company. Their understanding baseless, their persuasion indoctrinated through evil deception. The following two passages counter such ridiculous contention. People scripture is not open for abstract debate, this is no withheld mystery of God. The Law establishes common order through basic subordination. Those who seek to alter it do so for reasons of deceptive agendas.
Romans 13:8 “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another:for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
The exact same theme is reiterated in” Mat 5:18 “For truly I say to you, Till the heaven and the earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any way pass from the law until all is fulfilled.”
Dave, perhaps you have been reading from another publication, a book other than the Holy Bible, maybe something authored by the late Allison Crowley or his followers?
People I hope you are beginning to see a pattern here with this contributor. This guy’s spiritual credibility is a real problem the way I see it. My BS meter is red lined once again, yours should be too!
Just-My-Opinion
The law was not spoken at this time exclusively for the benefit of the Hebrews. God honored them by making them the guardians and keepers of His law, but it was to be held as a sacred trust for the whole world. The precepts of the Decalogue are adapted to all mankind, and they were given for the instruction and government of all. Ten precepts, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, cover the duty of man to God and to his fellow man; and all based upon the great fundamental principle of love. “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.” Luke 10:27. See also Deuteronomy 6:4, 5; Leviticus 19:18. In the Ten Commandments these principles are carried out in detail, and made applicable to the condition and circumstances of man.
http://ellenwhite.info/books/ellen-g-white-book-patriarchs-and-prophets-pp-27.htm
what did the Old Testament say about the New Covenant? Jeremiah 31:33 “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
Does this verse say God will put a “new” law in their hearts? Or does it say His law “except” His Sabbath being the fourth Commandment? No! The law that God said He is going to write into the hearts of His people is “His law” as it exists in the Old Testament! Hence God is saying that there is going to be NO change to His law with the New Covenant.
Some trying to avoid God’s law have said that the Old Covenant was made with Israel and so the Ten Commandments were only for Israel. But note that the New Covenant was also made ONLY with the “House of Israel.” This is covered in detail in is the Sabbath for Israel only but in the meanwhile know that the Bible tells us that if we are Christ’s then we are Abraham’s seed and “children of Israel” or the “House of Israel.” Honestly, how could any sane person think that God would expect one group to obey His law and allow everyone else to sin? (1 John 3:4) Paul elaborates further on the purpose of the law, “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.” Romans 7:7
Below is the New Testament fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:33 in regards to the New Covenant.
Hebrews 8:6-10 “But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”
God made a covenant with His children when He lead them by the hand out of the land of Egypt. (verse 9). The Bible tells us that Christ came as the Mediator of a New Covenant (verse 6). The belief that the New Covenant abolishes the Ten Commandments reflects a misunderstanding of both covenants. God tells us that He altered the original covenant and made “a better covenant, which was established upon better promises” (verse 6). But as we have already seen, it was not established on different laws. The law stayed the same. There was however a weakness or fault in the original covenant. That fault was with the people, NOT with the law. “For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:” (verse 8). It was “because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.” (verse 9).
In the Old Covenant God wrote His Ten Commandments on tablets of stone. It was external and not part of the thinking and motives of the people. It was in their literature but NOT in their hearts. In the New Covenant God writes His law “into their minds, and writes them in their hearts.” (verse 10).
To enable people to internalise His law, to love it and obey it eagerly and willingly, God makes this promise, Ezekiel 36:26-27 “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
After this news/article/whatever, I’m eagerly waiting for a heading something like this… “The lost Jesus have been found”!
Jesus narrowed the Ten Commandments for the Gentiles to the lone covenant: Love thy neighbors as thyself.
“The Lost Commandments Of Jesus Have Been Found”
What you mean you eventually got around to actually reading the Bible?
I Sin ‘n’ Lord Forgive Me ~ Informing Evildoers
Seek Life Avoid Death ~ If so Like Evade Death
Jesus ‘n’ God ~ Judge Sons
I agree ..God gave the law to Moses. Jesus only reminded the people of the law
A specialist on the New Testament Ernst Kasemann summarized his research on the life of Jesus ” One is overwhelmed by how little can be called authentic”. The theologian Bultmann said ” The character of Jesus, a clear picture of his personality and life have faded beyond recognition, it would not surprise me in the slightest if the bones of Jesus were found today”.
German theologian Holger Kersten said ” To ascribe divine authority to writings containing countless contradictions, mistakes, omissions, logical errors, false statements and obvious lies borders on blasphemy”.
ALL YOU THAT ARE GOING ON ABOUT GOD ARE 100% SINERS
Including you
I’d rather be a siner than a sinner
False Teachings on the LAW
FALSE — Teachings or statements that claim the Ten Commandments or the fourth Commandment were nailed to the cross or that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday in honour of the resurrection. Also false is that one can choose to observe the day or not or we can choose whatever day we desire to keep God’s Holy Sabbath on. See also The Ten Commandments of God.
TRUE — All Ten Commandments are an eternal law of love, (Romans 13:9-10) as God is love and love is eternal as God is eternal. The Commandments are called the perfect law of liberty (freedom) not bondage. James 1:25; 2:10-12. God made the Sabbath at creation (why we have a seven day week) before sin and before Jews and asked us to “Remember” the day when He personally gave His law. God showed the correct day matters when he tested His children to see if they would keep His Commandments by testing if they would keep THE seventh day. Exodus 16:4-30. We are told we will keep the Sabbath in the new Heaven and new Earth. Isaiah 66:22-23. The Ten Commandments or the Sabbath were not nailed to the cross according to Colossians 2:16. Paul speaks of the ordinances (ceremonial law) which had ceremonial holy day sabbaths that were nailed to the cross. Galatians 4:9-10 does not say that we can observe any day or that the Sabbath was bondage. Paul refers to the ceremonial law here also that he called bondage which it was, and it included Days, Times, Months and Years which were all part of the ceremonial law. Read Galatians and the law of Moses for more detail. We cannot decide to keep or not keep the Sabbath based on Romans 14:5, which is about Jews and Gentiles judging one another and was over the yearly feast days of the ceremonial law. The real truth is that this is one of Satan’s best accomplishments and deceptions on Christianity. Satan gave power to the Papacy (Revelation 13:2) so he could have them change God’s Sabbath to Sunday which was done by Constantine in 321 AD in honour of Sun worship, hence the name SUN-day, and millions died keeping the seventh day Sabbath and were typically tortured and burned at the stake. When we keep Sunday, we do so in reverence to the Roman Catholic Church according to them. HoverEnright $1000 offer for a document clip or select for original image. Jesus said, “That till Heaven and Earth pass not one jot or tittle will pass from the law.” Matthew 5:17-19.
http://www.falseteachersandteachings.com/
I see Gods Kingdom as a new start a new begining a new day and everyone that is their will know the way to walk and rebuild the world nice and neat! way cool !
The bible is like reading bits and pieces of a book with torn out pages, we only know what is wanted to know by whom wants us to know. The true law is in ones hearts…let your heart guide you to what is right.
God is not what is told by the whom…God became us so that we could become God. Jesus is God because God is Jesus, because we all are God. Evil doesn’t exist unless you create it as it is a manifestation of your own thoughts. All is energy, waves that manifests into form of what you believe to see. All things make sense once you realize this. If humans would put their thought energy into creating what is wanted we could see a shift in all what is now experienced… power in numbers.
Free will is the will to experience what you choose to experience….you want a life that sucks, keep believing it and it is yours. Keep waiting for someone/spmething to save you when the one to save you is already within you. Keep blaming everyone else and you will continue getting what you always got.
Happy trails
Choronzon?…….
more like Chorizo 
You peoples what ain’t tellin’ the name of Jesus everywhere is going straight to hell! Well…, maybe not–’cause Jesus forgives…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibmnPraJJZI
look there is no hell and no hevan wen you die ok so wen you die thats it all gone
From BIN’s own JESUS – the king of shambhala – there’s only one rule: follow him BLINDLY, say Obama’s THE ANTICHRIST and you’ll ZAP directly to HEAVEN…