The Number of Deaths Coming Will be Like Nothing Else Imaginable (Video) Hal Lindsey Report
4 Dec 15
Hals weekly newsletter followed by his jaw-dropping video. Do NOT miss this & do share! Seriously!!
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December 4th, 2015
This week on ‘The Hal Lindsey Report’”Armageddon” looms over the world. It’s never far from the thoughts of even unbelievers. Remember “Carmageddon” to describe several significant freeway traffic disruptions? Or “Snowmaggedon” to describe a major snow disaster in Canada? The world has a similar fascination with the word “apocalypse.”
Despite a prevalent lack of Bible literacy, fascination with Armageddon continues to grow. People seem to sense that something huge and awful will soon befall our planet, but few know any specifics. The Bible, on the other hand, gives a great deal of specific information about both the war of Armageddon and the events surrounding it. Daniel 11 gives us one of the most compelling accounts. There have been but the merest glimpses of Armageddon-like violence in world history. Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, to name a few. The real thing will be awful beyond words. The Bible predicts the number of deaths during that time as like nothing else imaginable. The world system will fall apart in almost every way, starting with the totalitarian rule of the Antichrist and the False Prophet. War will rage with all the fury modern technology makes possible. Never before in history could humanity do to itself what the Bible describes in the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Christ returns.
But now, it can do just that. And in today’s newspaper you can read the specific names of the nations described by the ancient prophets as they begin to align themselves in perfect accordance with what the Bible predicts. Which can only mean one thing: the “time of the end” described to Daniel by the angel Gabriel is upon us. If you are not ready for the sudden appearing of Jesus Christ to call away all true believers, then don’t hesitate to accept the full gift of pardon that His death on Calvary purchased for you. And if you have received His pardon and follow Him, then now is the time to make certain your family, your friends, and those around you have heard the Good News and have had a chance to prepare themselves, too. This week, I’ll give you an overview of the run-up to Armageddon. You will recognize all of the players and be stunned by how close those days may be. Don’t miss this week’s Report on TBN, Daystar, CPM Network, The Word Network, various local stations, www.hallindsey.com or www.hischannel.com. Check your local listings. God Bless, Hal Lindsey
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Thanks Hal for sharing your vision on Petra. I believed that for the past 35 years. The Bible talks of 2 main events.
The first event is the ‘Day of the Lord’ at the end of Daniel’s 70th week – Ezekiel 38, Joel 2, Zach. 12-14 and at that moment Christ will return for His remnant at ISRAEL. It has nothing to do with the worlds at large.
The second great event is 33 years later and it will be at Armageddon. Then all the all the nations of the world will yield to Christ. Then God will harnass the repentant nations (like the nation from the north or Russia) to fight the last great enemy to resist God’s Kingdom on earth – namely BABYLON – Rev.17-19
The ratio of 7:33 is found many times in the Bible (In the lives of Joseph, Moses, David, Thomas and Leviticus 12)
I cannot imagine nearly ALL the armies of the world to fight one tiny spot on the world map. We need to spread things out a little – especially the time order of events. Once Israel repents, many other nations will follow them and Russia will be one of the earliest nations to yield to Christ kingdom.
The last nation to falll is Babylon at Armageddon.
http://bookoftimes.com/uploads/3/3/2/6/3326291/f_graphs.pdf
Billions will perish and the world will be saved……for the elite!
/conspiracy-theories/2015/12/road-to-ww3-time-to-take-another-look-at-the-un-agenda-2030-2472762.html
No, not for the “elite”. Those whom God protects during the final battle, the Great Day of God the Almighty, are only those who support and associate with the remnant of the 144,000 holy spirit annointed, adopted sons of God. Those who are to be co-kings, co-princes, and co-priests with Jesus for the thousand years of Judgement day. Everyone else will be “destroyed” and will experience the second death. Complete destruction without resurrection. Currently, there are about 8 to 10 million who will survive. They are the ones who do the ENTIRE will of God, all day every day, and who study and teach accurately what the inspired word of God says and means for us today. Unfortunately, none of the sects of Christendom even teach the entire will of God, much less encourage anyone to do His will as He instructed us all to do. If anyone were to learn what that will is, and were to constantly do His will, they too would be protected and survive. It’s interesting the detail and accuracy in the scriptures, especially when discussing the final battle and afterward.
He like so many others like him, have the WRONG Israel. The nation of Israel today is NOT the Israel of the bible!
This is will inevitably lead to an incorrect interpretation of Bible prophecy – leading to the shipwrecked faith of many.
Hal Lindsey is a multimillionaire Christian Zionist (Edomite jew), with a fierce loyalty to the hive, always the hive . .
His aim is to mix truth with lies and perpetuate the myth of the jews as “G-d’s chosen.”
Exactly. Heads up there FemArnie.
Well said
http://destinedtoberevealed.com/category/the-israel-of-god/
here is a link to the true Israel of God
Hal is a zionist stooge but probably very wealthy
Great more people I have to punish… *rolls eyes*
You shouldn’t smoke that stuff. It makes you weird.
Thanks you Hal Lindsey, for waking me up a long time ago when I read “Late Great Planet Earth”…
i can only say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci2kVCAQLJw
A.D. 66 to A.D. 70 was, in fact, the expected “Great Tribulation.” At that point in history, A.D. 70, the Jewish nation ceased to be, and the Jews were forced to scatter around the globe, wandering from Gentile nation to nation with no homeland or forced to become heathens. That was the end of their world and end of the Jewish age, and the near entire fulfillment of the book of Daniel, Olivet discourse, and John’s Revelation.
Were you holding your Bible upside down when you read the Book of Revelation?
Try flipping it over and read again. Then you’ll realize the magnitude of redonkulosity you just posted.
As anyone into studying Biblical prophecies knows, there are many controversies and little agreement on many issues, such as the so-called “rapture” and “seven-year tribulation,” or rebuilt Jewish temple and how much prophecy is yet to be fulfilled and when and how.
Well, I can tell you this much: the so-called “great tribulation” for the Jews was largely fulfilled during the 3.5-year period leading up to the desolation of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, as well as the seven-year period straddling the period of A.D. 27 to A.D. 34 with the life and death of Jesus the Christ mentioned in Daniel’s 70 weeks prophecy. There is very little left to cover that involves our times.
The vast bulk of those prophecies, including that of Revelation, are ancient history, having already been fulfilled almost two millennia ago, except some of the very last portions of Daniel 12, and some choice sections of the New Testament such as the Olivet discourse (that’s it!),
That’s my take on it
There isn’t anything in Scripture written about a so-called great tribulation for the Jews. There is the Time of Jacob’s trouble, which prophecy makes clear will unfold some two thousand years after the Messiah had walked in the land and been lifted up by rebellious factions.
Hosea 6:2
After Two Days will He revive us: in the Third Day he will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight.
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that One Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as One Day.
We are now drawing near to the end of the Sixth Day.
Revelation speaks of a cashless society. Revelation speaks of global calamities.
But most importantly…
You wrote:
“The vast bulk of those prophecies, including that of Revelation, are ancient history, having already been fulfilled almost two millennia ago…”
Revelation was written AFTER the Roman Empire destroyed the city of Jerusalem and disbursed the remainder of the Judeans. Therefore, your theory cannot be true.
“That’s my take on it…”
We don’t have to resort to theories or opinions about these matters. And in fact we have been cautioned against doing so by the Word of God. The matter has been set before us for careful study and careful consideration.
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Take this ….. Revelation was written AFTER 70 A.D. and is therefore not true scripture …. better stick with Paul. The seventy weeks were completed with no missing week remaining ( sorry Hal ). Thus we already have ( Dan 9:24 ) all of the fulfillment including a sealing of vision and prophecy.
PS …. “Messiah had walked in the land and been lifted up by rebellious factions” and “Hosea 6:2″……………………..my take ……Jesus was crucified for our sins and arose on the third day. And we ‘body of Christ (Jew and Gentile) were crucified with Him and yet nevertheless we live (ref Gal 2:20)
Mike,
Your failure to recognize Revelation as the Word of God, and to make it fit with the rest of what is written, is not something you should boast about with glee.
Take that.
“…nevertheless we live…”
Won’t you project into time a bit further than the nose on your face?
The Third Day begins with the three thousandth year after His death and resurrection. He was raised the third day. The first resurrection will likewise commence on the Third Day.
Many have tried and failed to make the book of Revelation fit with the rest of scripture and the reality of the end-times. It is a hodgepodge of old testament writings which remains in my Bible for the same reason Erasmus decided to include it, but I would not lean on this reed. This is not boasting or gleefulness on my part any more than Martin Luther enjoyed labeling James as ‘straw’.
Erasmus is hardly the only fella to think that Revelation is inspired. Check out the Manuscript streams he had nothing to do with. Then check out the Papyri and codices. There were far more early church leaders and authorities who believed that Revelation is authentic than there were those who didn’t. Not that it wasn’t a topic for debate.
Your claim that Revelation cannot be made to fit the rest of Scripture is patently false.
sorry … meant to say Eusebius ( rather than Erasmus ) who was directed by Constantine to deliver the original 50 Bibles in 331 a.d. He included Revelation as a disputed book. And in 363 at the Synod of Laodicea it was forbidden for Revelation to be read in the churches. By the time of Augustine the prohibition was dropped and by the fifth century the eastern church also went along. So I have a lot of sympathetic company in the early church. Now as to ‘the fitting with the rest of the N.T.’…. Revelation is short on grace and long on hell and it promotes itself by curses…… further, ” I come quickly ” was patently false !
You meant Eusebius? Saying Erasmus is the reason Revelation ended up in the Textus Receptus would have made more sense, no? That is how I took your meaning. Canon had been established by the time Eusebius Pamphili participated in THE Council (the one erroneously referenced here in these BINS almost daily as the official decider of Canon – which it wasn’t, because Canon had been widely decided by believers prior that convention). Revelation was accepted more widely than not prior to the Synod of Hippo, whereupon that Book made its place in the Bible official, according to the Roman Rite.
“Revelation is short on grace and long on hell and it promotes itself by curses…”
Really? Even with Messiah expressing to the Churches the positive as well as the negative? Long on hell? Whatever does that mean? Perhaps you mean long on Justice, as Revelation treats extensively of the Time of Jacob’s Trouble and the outpouring of God’s Wrath. Would you prefer stories about forgiveness and happiness in a Book specifically about the culmination of iniquity at the end of the age and the subsequent punishment for that iniquity? Your objection, as vague and as misplaced as it is, seems to miss the point of the Book entirely. But that’s not all, because Revelation shows us plainly what happens AFTER the punishing concludes in this age. As to your suggestion that Revelation promotes itself by curses, I really have no idea what you mean by that and am not particularly interested in learning. Revelation is a prophecy and it is a warning. Save for the prophecies about the first coming of Messiah, are you familiar with many prophecies in Scripture that don’t strike a similar stark and foreboding tone? Have you read Jeremiah? Have you read Isaiah? Have you read Messiah in the Gospels referring to Himself slaying those who would not that He reigned over them?
Revelation fits. You just have to have the courage to look at it for what it is. Denying Justice and Retribution are not widely encouraged pass-times in ANY of the Old or New Testament Books.
Daniel 12:4 This relates to the disciples spreading the Gospels,many shall run to and fro and knowledge increased..
Johns Revelation
John wrote Revelation when the seemingly all-powerful Roman Empire with its cult of emperor-worship was persecuting the followers of Jesus Christ. It was also widely expected that the dead emperor Nero would come back to life to take revenge against the Rome he once ruled. The Book is therefore a product of that period in world history 2,000 years ago;
That’s how I see it,end times had to be the first century
RIGHT. its very simple, it is, as usual, Beef, is 100& correct, and you romish sunday xtians are utterly wrong, what?do you rub yourselves with bacon while posting? look here, The Revelations of JaHWeHShua, are totally legit, and brings the WHOLE Bible into conclusion, NOBODY fully understands it, cause it aint happened eh. BUT, what lies within in IS THE KEY TO TRUE WORSHIP, and WHAT we must do to enter the Kingdom!!
Seven-fold Message of Revelation
Although the Book of Revelation contains much of what is still to come, certain fundamental teachings are found in it. One revelation that comes through very clearly is the definition of the True Worship, which is given in 7 places – the number of perfection. The True Worship rests on two fundamental principles, and the True Worshipper has to comply with these two requirements: To guard the commands of יהוה, and to believe in יהושע! We read this in Rev_12:17 and in Rev_14:12, and also in Rev_15:2-3 where the overcomers are described as those who sing the song of Mosheh (the Law) and the song of the Lamb (יהושע). Now for the other four witnesses: “Word,” “Command” and “Teaching” are very often used as parallel words, or synonyms, or interchangeably. See this for yourselves in Teh. 119:142, 151 & 160 / Psa_119:142, Psa_119:151, Psa_119:160. Compare also Teh. 119:105 / Psa_119:105 with Mish. 6:23 / Pro_6:23, and read Mish. 13:13 / Pro_13:13 as well. So let us look at these other four witnesses, in the light of what we have discussed. We find these other four witnesses in Rev_1:2, Rev_1:9, Rev_6:9 and Rev_20:4 – a total of seven perfect witnesses in the Book of Revelation!
so it is ESSENTIAL!! BUT! i know the root of the trouble! they argue, cause they hate the Commandments, and would rather eat pork while fornicating, and their pastor tells em its ok.
To what Richard has here said, I would add…
…absolutely nothing.
Well, seeing as Richard and Beef are evidently joined at the hip with nothing left to say, I will also try to be brief and avoid mere rhetoric. There has not been a proper and reasoned response, but childish degradations such as ‘eat pork while fornicating’ and ‘rubbing with bacon’. Perhaps we could yet continue with a discussion of the true issues which these lose remarks reveal….. Zionism and works for salvation. So, if I may, let us take up your references to the kingdom and to overcoming and possibly continue with that thread. Suffice it to say that overcoming is not to be achieved by a cabalistic seven-fold numerology, but by following a pure Pauline doctrine of grace and love as shown by the hypernike of Romans chapter eight, overcoming evil with good and entering the true spiritual kingdom of Rom. 14:17. We may now continue in this vein or you are free to default to a churlish silence or an equally comment-ending childishness.
GALATIANS
“Suffice it to say that overcoming is not to be achieved by a cabalistic seven-fold numerology…”
Who, at any time on this board, said anything about seven-fold numerology – or even anything of the kind? You’re chasing shadows. And you’re looking for trouble.
“…but by following a pure Pauline doctrine…”
There is nothing legitimate known as Pauline doctrine. Paul’s ‘doctrine’ is the Gospel of the KING – the One Eternal Gospel. That’s what Paul’s doctrine is. Paul was an explainer; not an inventer. He made clearer that which was already spoken, written and taught by the Law, the Prophets and the Gospels.
“We may now continue in this vein or you are free to default to a churlish silence or an equally comment-ending childishness.”
Bring it on, fella. You’ll bite off more than you can chew in a hurry. And per Romans 8, if there was a question contained in your post, perhaps you wouldn’t mind actually asking it.
Mike wrote:
“GALATIANS”
…and then he left us to guess at his meaning. If you have something to say…
…try actually saying it.
Who … see the comment by Richard above with whom you agree 100% …really …that is where the seven-fold cabalistic numerology comment is !
mere rhetoric will not cut it here Beef ….. where is the substance of your position ? Let’s talk about Galations in relation to your position of Zionistic support and works for salvation. How can you profess to approve of Saint Paul while patronizing him?
You haven’t really gotten the knack of this dialogue thing yet, have you mike?
Show me numerology. Quote Richard and show me Kabbalism.
That’s how you make a meaningful point. All you’ve managed to do so far is talk.
Mike,
If you have a question for me…
ASK IT.
I will not bother to guess at your meaning.
ok … How is it that “Paul is my favorite apostle” you say …. but you also say “I am not a follower of Paul” ? And how can you reconcile this with the book of Galatians?
I know that you must be in the process of the preparation of some long rhetorical diatribe …. but please … just address the core of my question which you agreed to do.
WHAT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT GALATIANS WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ADDRESS? ASK ME A QUESTION I CAN ANSWER. USE YOUR WORDS.
GALATIANS … that is the focus of the question!
Why have you asked me for the question 7 minutes after I have asked the question in plain English ?
I see. You really are here just to cause trouble. What a shameful display of muckraking. You dare call yourself a believer?
One last time and I show you my back for good, because you will have proven to me you are nothing but a liar and you are only here to sow confusion:
WHAT is it about Galatians you would like me to address? If you ask me a specific question, I will not hesitate to answer you.
Last time, friend.
I’m having trouble believing you could be so thick. Is it brain damage? Say so if it is. You’ll have my immediate and sincere apologies. Are you just an enemy of the Word?
I will reiterate …. How is it that you claim Paul as your favorite apostle and yet you positively state that you are not a follower of him ? Please explain your position with reference to the book of Galatians. thank you .
Mike
May I intrude for a moment with a question? Your comments reveal a person of education, of which I am not.. but I have spent a few years studying the Word of God.
As you seem to be deeply into God’s Word you may be able to explain your statement I pasted below.
“Perhaps we could yet continue with a discussion of the true issues which these lose remarks reveal….. Zionism and works for salvation.”
This concept of “works” of earning salvation, I have looked and looked and can not find even one promise of God that keeping the Torah perfectly will earn salvation, will earn eternal life.
I have found in Leviticus 26: 1 -39 the complete contract God made with the children of Israel which includes the duties of the children of Israel (1 – 3); the promises of God ( 4 – 13) and then the curses or punishments God places upon Israel for breaking the contract.( 14 – 39).
But I find nothing but physical blessings such as good weather, great crops, and protections from their enemies etc. for obeying the Law and not breaking the Covenant— I find not one promise for salvation.
I have for the few years I have commented here on BIN been accused of attempting to earn salvation because I follow the example of Jesus Christ and the Apostles by keeping the Sabbath and God’s Holy Days and all of His Law (but not the sacrificial law Christ ended with His one Sacrifice).
You should be able to list scriptures that state by following that WAY Christ lived — I am trying to earn salvation?
Please do not quote vague scriptures I am looking for something like 1 John 3:4 which clearly states “For sin is the transgression of the Law”.
Mike,
I will state my point with reference to Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 1:12
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1:13
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1:15
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
Is there some trouble comprehending that? We aren’t to be followers of Paul, in the sense of Paul being our leader. Messiah is our leader. Paul said we should be IMITATORS of him:
1 Corinthians 11:1
μιμηταί μου γίνεσθε
That is, translated word-for-word: IMITATORS of me be…
Messiah is the Leader; He is the Head of every man. Paul is not. Thus, I am not a follower of Paul. I try to be an imitator of Paul.
Now if there is a verse or passage from Galatians you want me to address, then post it here and I will address it. I will not wonder at an entire Letter of Paul as to what your possible meaning might be.
Beef … goodbye … find the door … for the umpteenth and final time you have failed to answer the question in terms of Galatians !
You are a fool.
mike;
No, that’s incorrect. It IS “true” as you say, scripture. It is inspired by God and written by John on Patmos while a prisoner.
mike;
You are again incorrect regarding Revalation. It fits like a hand in a glove. Not a single thing out of place. It’s pretty concise also. Every time I study it in depth I pick up something more from it, and I can’t count the times I’ve studied Revelation. Studying other books in the Bible, especially Daniel and Jeremiah and the so called lesser prophets, really helps when studying Revelation. It helps to put the pieces together. The trick is to find the exact meaning that doesn’t conflict with ANY other scripture. Once they all agree, you then will know what they really mean.
Truthseeker … I would greatly prefer a discussion with you to one with Beef Supreme who is so disingenuously inclined . I know that we do not fundamentally agree but could perhaps have a meaningful dialogue. I have seen your comments before and would not rate you as unlearned.
Mike
I did go to a university and after 2 years left needing 44 hours of A’s just to average a C. But I had a great time.
Some of Paul’s writing are difficult as either Peter or John stated because he was very educated and also because the translators put their own beliefs in the mix when ever possible.
I can understand Paul’s writings but to try to explain to another is very difficult. I believe God allowed Paul to write in a hard to understand way and I also have come to see that one must first understand the Torah before one can understand the New Testament.
As you probably know I do not follow the “doctrine of grace”, that is not a get out of jail for free doctrine.
I can comment on Paul, but you will not agree
Truthseeker …. Let’s begin where we are in Galatians with the verse you asked for…… “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” . Know that I do not classify you as unsaved because of your support of the law … there is room for some disagreement ….if we agree that we are hopeless sinners and totally dependent on His grace.
Mike and Beef
I have come to understand that the “grace” of God is simple — while we ALL were sinners the Father allowed HIS Son to die for sinners.
That is something I would never do as a human. I would die for one of my children but for some lying fornicator dog — not so much.
In God’s kindness and because of His love for man He let His Son be killed when not one of us is worth one drop of His sweat much less HIS blood.
Because of the confusion Paul has caused in the unconverted mind there is a dogma or doctrine of Grace because the carnal mind of man hates the LAW OF GOD.
Truthseeker …. I must take care of some business and as we are criss-crossing our thoughts , I will get bact to you soon … best wishs and thanks for your intervention … Mike
Well you seem retarded enough for that.
pss … You say “the apostles were teachers” …. would just like to point out the significance of Galatians 2:11 when Paul dresses-down Peter for his lack of understanding.
Sir Ralph;
What happened in 70 a.d. was the first fulfillment and we are about to experience the second one.
Just another false prophet. Don’t forget to buy whatever new crap he is trying to push on the gullible.
Sorry guys but I disagree with your timing. The catastrophic events such as this one, that you discuss here are actually later. First comes the event that Jesus Christ prophesied when he quoted Isaiah 61 into Luke 4. It must occur firs as HE is the worlds kinsman redeemer and HE is the one that All Human kingdoms will belong to. First the Old World Order Oligarchy falls. When later are these catastrophic events that you guys are promoting
here. The 25th Chapter of Leviticus, the book of Ruth (kinsman redeemer) then the Isaiah and Luke passages.
The JUBILEE comes first. Hal Lindsey is wrong in his timing.
Hell Lindsey is like the majority of posters on BIN, a bunch of b.s., poppycock, way out of this world, ridicules, weekly world news material crud!
peace
We needs a good armageddon, to gets the heathens back into the churches! Problem is, how’s peoples supposed to enjoy armageddon if they is dead? Can’t has yer cake and eat it too, I guess.
HEAR HEAR
WHAT WHAT?
Oh.
Armageddon.
Yes, that.
One is coming.
Hi Beef Supreme/Richard
I would be interested in your opions of Saul/Paul …
As a teacher, Paul is my favorite apostle. It is possible for us to learn right seeking after the Way without the writings of Paul, but Paul brought an explanation of the Biblical Narrative to a level at which we can more readily absorb the nuances of the Inspired Message.
The Epistles of Paul are a gift of inestimable value and Paul was a most excellent Messenger of the Gospel.
I would have more interest in Paul’s opinion of Beef Supreme. Paul wrote over half of the New Testament as the apostle of the Gentiles. Without Paul there would be less than mere nuances to the truth. Weak praise from a follower is more damning than the arrows of an adversary !
I would rather ask …. ” are you a follower of Paul?” ….. Paul as the only apostle chosen by the resurrected Christ …. either you follow Paul or you fall from grace …. read Galatians again !
Beef Supreme ….. what is your take on the book of Galatians ?
You’re a troublemaker and a sniper, mike.
Is that your idea of a good showing according to what is written? Is that how believers are to behave?
Mind your own praise.
GALATIANS … Beef? … Hal?
“the revelation of Jesus Christ ‘ GALATIANS 1:12
I challenge you Beef …. what about Galatians ? Do you follow Paul or merely patronize him?
What is a sniper …. one who shoots bullets of penetrating truth? Where are your guns? What about GALATIANS? Are you a follower of Paul ? yes or no ?????
Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Do you have a problem using your words, mike?
You have a challenge for me? Good. I love a challenge.
What is it?
I am NOT a follower of Paul. I am a servant of Paul’s Master, Messiah the KING.
If you’re a follower of Paul, then you didn’t READ Paul. Or, if you did read him, you didn’t believe what he wrote.
Buck up for the suds, fella. If you want it, here it is.
Be honest … not mere meaningless rhetoric ….at least you now admit that you are not a follower of Paul…that much is true!
I’ve about lost patience with you already, mike. It is clear you have no interest in involving yourself in a meaningful discussion about the Word of God. You would rather snipe and snarl from behind cover. So be it.
If you have nothing specific to ask me, I will not bother engaging you further. I will not bother attempting to defend my beliefs when I have no idea what the charges against me are.
Speak up and quit yourself like a man, or continue to behave like a bothersome ankle-biter. Your choice.
once again ….. How is it that Paul is stated to be your favorite apostle but you do not follow him? Please address the question in terms of Galatians … thank you very much.
See above.
[And you need lessons on how to conduct yourself in dialogue. Repeating the same thing over and over, when someone is asking you for specifics, well... there's a definition for that, isn't there?]
mike, when one follows Messiah, they WORSHIP him. There is only One who should be followed.
BEEF’s just saying that he finds the depths of the Word given to Paul to be more interesting to him.
He does not follow Paul. He does not worship Paul. He follows the Word given to Paul.
Why are you so caught up on this nonsense? You’re looking for something that’s just not there.
Hi Scanner …. no offense but this thread is over … and I have been rather forceful … but I do believe that Paul had a lot more in mind than mere imitation as a reading of Galatians will adequately show. We should be followers of him as Christ positioned him. Best regards … later … Mike ps .. the patronizing of Paul set me off.
There are plenty of verses in Galatians to choose from and nobody here knows which you are talking about, which should say something about your position here.
All BEEF is asking for is for you to post that verse, or verses, that you seem to think contradicts what he is saying.
What is so hard about a simple copy-paste?
I don’t even require a copy-paste, Scanner. Chapter and verse will do just fine. My Bible is right at my finger tips and I would be happy to look up the cited verses myself.
In six years of discussing Scripture here at this website, I have never experienced such bullheadedness before.
It makes me question exactly whom I’m dealing with. Games like that I have little time for and even less patience.
Scanner/Beef …. your demand of a verse is patently disingenuous as I have given you an entire book to explain to me how you can approve of Paul and yet not be a follower of his authority and instructions as clearly shown in the book of Galatians. ” Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.” (I Cor 11:1) ..quibble on … the question stands unanswered !
Quibble with this:
A Corinthians 11:1
New International Version
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
New Living Translation
And you should imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.
English Standard Version
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
Berean Study Bible
You are to imitate me, just as I imitate Christ.
Berean Literal Bible
Be imitators of me, as I also am of Christ.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Imitate me, as I also imitate Christ.
International Standard Version
Imitate me, as I do the Messiah.
NET Bible
Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Imitate me just as I also do The Messiah.
GOD’S WORD® Translation
Imitate me as I imitate Christ.
New American Standard 1977
Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.
Jubilee Bible 2000
Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.
American Standard Version
Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.
Darby Bible Translation
Be my imitators, even as *I* also [am] of Christ.
English Revised Version
Be ye imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.
World English Bible
Be imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ.
And quibble with this…
The word in Greek is MIMETES. Do you see it right there? MIMIC. Imitate.
Anything else, mike?
MIKE thank you brother in Christ for making ME READ all of Galatians.
now why did you answer with 1 Corinthians if this is all about GALATIANS.
You should rethink your position on Paul and Revelation.
the verse in Galatians that stands out to me is 6: 2-10 Bear ye one another’s burdens; and so you shall fulfill the Law of Christ.
3 For if any man think himself to be some thing, whereas he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every one prove his own work, and so he shall have glory in himself only, and not in another.
5 For every one shall bear his own burden.
6 And let him that is instructed in the word, communicate to him that instructeth him, in all good things.
7 Be not deceived, God is not mocked.
8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting.
9 And in doing good, let us not fail. For in due time we shall reap, not failing
10 Therefore, whilst we have time, let us work good to all men, but especially to those of faith.
ok Beef … I did not realize that your Bible says ‘imitate’ rather than ‘follow’ … and this explains a lot of our miscommunication. However, the meaning is not changed for when the N.T. speaks of physically following someone it uses Strong’s G-190 or a derivative thereof; and when it speaks of spiritually following it utilizes G-3402 as in Corinthians and in Ephesians (5:1) where we are asked to be followers of God. An interesting passage where this is made clear is Philippians 3:17 which is a derivative of G-3401 which means co-imitators and is translated in my Bible as ‘followers together’. The point is that imitating obviously entails following the beliefs and behavior and life of the followed ….. and in Paul’s case, the instruction and authority is easily shown in the book of Galatians where he adequately expresses himself to be the only apostle to be chosen by the risen Christ right out of the box in verse one. From here, the theme continues to soar and in verse 6 of the first chapter it is clear that he speaks of his ‘gospel of grace’. This is shown to be new and different and exclusive to Paul in so much that he ends Galatians with 6:17. Now the point remains …. you can not claim to approve of Paul without following his gospel of grace’ and authority.
“For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.” (I Cor. 4) So I ask … what is your relationship to Paul? Is he just another brother in Christ ?.. just another apostle ….? Many realize his position in the forming of the church and they know that you can not be neutral …. you must be for or against such arrogant authority … and so they speak of another gospel that is not Paul’s gospel.
Mike wrote:
“This (Paul’s ‘gospel of grace’) is shown to be new and different and exclusive to Paul in so much that he ends Galatians with 6:17.”
I reject this entire premise as being outright unbiblical and contradictory to the Word of God. This, your claim is certainly one for which you owe evidence, since it is your claim. Here is how evidence works when we are busy about studying anything, according not only to the Law:
Deuteronomy 19:15
…at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
…but ALSO according to Paul himself, in the New Testament:
2 Corinthians 13:1
In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall EVERY word be established.
And there it is. Since it is your assertion that Paul’s ‘gospel of grace’ quote: “is shown to be new and different and exclusive to Paul”, then you owe the witnesses that prove your assertion, because I flatly reject your assertion.
You wrote:
“Now the point remains …. you can not claim to approve of Paul without following his gospel of grace’ and authority.”
Mike,
This is very simple. I still have no idea why you came at me sideways today, because you still haven’t said so. I MIMETES Paul as often as I can. I mimic Paul very often in my writing and in my dealings with people. Sometimes I am probably far less patient and forgiving than he was. But I do as he said and I try to imitate him because I revere him as a man of Messiah. But Paul said himself in the verses I quoted to you at the beginning of this trying thread, that we are NOT to consider ourselves followers of him:
1 Corinthians 1:12
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1:13
IS CHRIST DIVIDED? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
How then is this not a direct answer to you objections? How is this passage not most problematic for your claims, which you have now had to alter significantly just to keep your argument alive?
We are not to be followers of Paul. We are to be worshippers and servants of the KING. Paul was not given anything new that the other apostles were not given, save that Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. That is the only difference. Paul’s Gospel is Messiah’s Gospel. Were it not, Paul would never have said THIS:
Galatians 1:18
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Now if Messiah’s doctrine were different from Paul’s, by even the narrowest margin, then Paul would here be in big trouble. But there is ONE Gospel of Messiah and there is ONE Gospel of Paul, and those two are identical. They do not differ in any way, shape or form. That is what Scripture teaches. That is what the Word of God teaches. If you care to argue some other way, then you owe confirming witness in support of your argument, according to both Deuteronomy 19:15 and 2 Corinthians 13:1, or you do not argue according to the Word, but according to some other gospel. And we have already seen what Paul taught about those who come preaching some other gospel.
“So I ask … what is your relationship to Paul?”
My relationship to Paul is one of teacher and student. I am a student of Paul.
“Is he just another brother in Christ ?”
Yes. He is just another brother in Messiah. He is a revered Apostle. He is a brilliant teacher. His explanation of the Gospel has been beneficial to us beyond measure. But Paul’s written words are all θεόπνευστος. They are all THEOPNEUSTOS. They are all GOD-BREATHED. Inspired. So who are we really to be thanking for Paul? We thank Paul’s Savior, his Teacher, his Redeemer and his Maker. We thank Messiah the KING for Paul. Do we not? I most certainly do.
“Many realize his position in the forming of the church and they know that you can not be neutral …. you must be for or against such arrogant authority … and so they speak of another gospel that is not Paul’s gospel.”
There is only Paul’s Gospel. That’s because Paul’s Gospel is the One Eternal Gospel. The One Eternal Gospel is the Gospel of Messiah the KING. Let he who preacheth some other gospel be accursed.
Beef, may I say that this is not a personal attack upon you, but I have perhaps abused you somewhat as a sounding board to express the truth of Paul’s gospel and that we should be followers of Paul . It is somewhat ironic that you have called for witnesses by O.T. law to support the originality and authority of the Pauline gospel of grace. Nevertheless, there is the witness of the Bible itself from whom Paul can not be separated and his own words may be used to contradict your understanding of first Corinthians. Here he insists that there be no divisions of personality and especially of doctrine and that they be not as of Paul himself or even of Christ ! Now, chapter three shows clearly that when he speaks to them spiritually he says ‘follow me’ ; and yet when they remain carnal he must speak as to babies and say ‘was I crucified for you’. By chapter four he is as a father who has begotten them and urges them to follow. The Bible witness will speak for Paul’s authority (the Bible is largely of Paul ). For a second witness I will produce a large portion of our contemporary ‘scholars’ who you may peruse online and hear them say that Paul is an evil counterfeit of the true gospel of Jesus as found in the gospels. Thus they attest to the originality and assumed authority of Paul and must produce another gospel. Thirdly, we have the witness within … the Spirit of God … “I have begotten you through the gospel” … no mere instructor of righteousness . Today, we need to speak out as proud followers of Paul. I appreciate that you seem to be a follower of Paul even though you hesitate to say so. I think that we have been misled by a first Corinthian unfocused emphasis . Can we now focus as brothers in Christ on the only gospel….Paul’s gospel … the gospel of grace? … peace
Mike you shwantz, the LETTER of Galatians,
Gal 1:1 Sha’ul, an emissary – not from men, nor by a man, but by יהושע Messiah and Elohim the Father who raised Him from the dead –
That one, is like his letter to the GALATIANS< are you a galatian? hmmm? you know they were the ancient equivalent of HIPPYS? and that letter tells them THEM SPECIFICALLY how to Accord to the Way, and the letter to the ROMANS, is to te romans? are you a roman? well if you are, do what that letter says, BUT, like "Paul" says, if your a White ANGLO SAXON< then your a HEBREW and you must KEEP TORAH. ie the 10 Commandments, for they fall perfectly under the Two Great Commandments Messiah gave, He merely in His Might, Summarised Torah, SO YOU HEBREW! listen to "Paul" :
Act 21:24 “Take them and be cleansed with them, and pay their expenses so that they shave their heads. And all shall know that what they have been informed about you is not so, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Torah.
Act 21:25 “But concerning the gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should keep themselves from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring.”1 Footnote: 1See 15:20.
TRANSLATED ALL YOU WHITE ANGLO SAXONS KEEP TORAH< EVERYBODY ELSE :
Act 21:25 “But concerning the gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should keep themselves from what is offered to idols, and blood, and what is strangled, and whoring.”1 Footnote: 1See 15:20.
and thats the Law.
"Paul" sed it, so now what, stupid mike, your totally a yellow jacketed xmas swine
Dear Sir Ralph! i utterly second Beef, “Paul” is like, only the badassest badass ever, EVERRRRRRR, like the fans of justin bieber shriek for him, so do i go for Paul, for HIS SCORE, is FAR beyond mine, Paul. is a SUPER HERO.
without Paul, and he ever said his books would be used for it,,,, without Paul, there would be not benny hinn, no charasmatic churches, no sunday xtians, Pauls books are profound and the biggest NET you will ever see, omw my mind stutters at the number, for without Paul, what would draw these superficial ones out? Paul is higher grade, People moan i only post Old Testament, well,, its because THATS THE SOFT STUFF! omw, you gotta start at the start hey! Paul! Paul EXPLAINS how YOU and ME can KEEP TORAH and PLEASE THE MOST HIGH! he also gives chumps ammo to TWIST! omw, Paul. Look, Paul aint in there for no reason hey, the numbers codes run till the last verse of Revelations, hoohaa.
Well Richard …. what can I say … hmmmm …. I will let the Beef agree 100% with you and perhaps add to your profound remarks.
Mike wrote:
“I have perhaps abused you somewhat as a sounding board to express the truth of Paul’s gospel and that we should be followers of Paul.”
That’s fine, mike. Be sincere in your beliefs and make sure you can defend them at all times with the Word. That’s all it takes.
“It is somewhat ironic that you have called for witnesses by O.T. law to support the originality and authority of the Pauline gospel of grace.”
That’s where you and I will run into great trouble. So get ready to defend your case.
“Nevertheless, there is the witness of the Bible itself from whom Paul can not be separated and his own words may be used to contradict your understanding of first Corinthians.”
You will never hear me argue that anything Paul wrote in his Epistles should be considered separately from the rest of Scripture. Paul’s words are DABAR ELOHIM. They are the Word of God. Paul’s writing is God-breathed – THEOPNEUSTOS. (That word is pronounced Thay-ON-oo-stoss, in case you were wondering. Gotta love that word. That’s how all Scripture is described.) You will never hear me suggest that Paul’s words should be received by us on some other or lesser level than we receive the rest of the Word of God.
“Here he insists that there be no divisions of personality and especially of doctrine and that they be not as of Paul himself or even of Christ !”
Messiah, as the Image of God, brought us this doctrine. The doctrine comes from The Father.
“Now, chapter three shows clearly that when he speaks to them spiritually he says ‘follow me’…”
I think you owe a quotation when you make a claim like that, mike. Make a claim, then back it with the Word. Paul did not say to follow him in 1 Corinthians chapter 3. What he did say was this:
1 Corinthians 3:21
Therefore, let NO MAN glory in men.
(Are you obedient to that command?)
…for all things are yours;
3:22
Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
(Do you follow that which is yours?)
3:23
And ye are Christ’s
(Not Paul’s)
…and Christ is God’s.
Now that is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians, mike. He never says ‘follow me.’
“By chapter four he is as a father who has begotten them and urges them to follow.”
Mike, referencing entire chapters, or even entire Books, is no way to communicate about the Word when we should be employing specifics. If you make a claim, back it up with the Word being as specific as you can. Don’t leave your fellows to wonder at the meaning or the verity of your claims. Say it. Then prove it. Be as specific as you can. Being specific eliminates much confusion. This is not hard.
“The Bible witness will speak for Paul’s authority (the Bible is largely of Paul).”
That’s great, mike. Now you’ve just called the entire Bible as your witness? You are not defending your side of the argument AT ALL. Get specific. Don’t you know how? Don’t you know the Bible? You’ve already accused me of being unlearned in the Scriptures. So? Get busy showing you ARE learned in the Scriptures. The Bible is organized into Books, chapters and verses for a reason. USE the Bible, the SWORD of GOD, to defend your argument. SHOW the evidence, right here and right now. Here we are. You are making bold claims. But what comes out of your mouth is utterly meaningless unless it can be SHOWN that what you say is in accord with what is written. Don’t just ask anyone to take your word for anything. Don’t just say ‘GALATIANS when someone asks you for a quote. And don’t just say ‘BIBLE’ when someone asks you for a witness. We are under ORDERS to give a meaningful accounting for our beliefs when called to do so. Follow the orders, mike. Learn how to do this thing correctly.
“For a second witness I will produce a large portion of our contemporary ‘scholars’…”
Dismissed. Academia and Scholars DO NOT get a seat at the table when we are discussing the Word of God. ONLY the Word of God gets a seat at this table. Canon. That’s it. Your witness comes from within the Scriptures, or your witness has not been produced. I didn’t make these rules, mike. But I am sure as hell not going to hear anything you say when you are telling me I’m wrong about the Bible, if you don’t prove your point by SHOWING me that I’m wrong about the Bible, WITH the Bible. I really should not have to explain this to you. This is 101. This is VERY BASIC. This is not something that a man who knows much about the Word of God needs to have explained to him.
“Thus they attest to the originality and assumed authority of Paul and must produce another gospel.”
Meaningless.
“Thirdly, we have the witness within … the Spirit of God … “I have begotten you through the gospel” … no mere instructor of righteousness.”
Who said that to whom, and where was it said? Chapter and verse would be very helpful.
1 Corinthians 4:15
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
What then is it you are suggesting Paul is saying here?
“Today, we need to speak out as proud followers of Paul.”
That’s your claim. Where is your case? You can make claims all day and all night. But what have you accomplished? You make the claim, you prove the legitimacy of that claim by providing Scripture that supports your claim. There is NOTHING in the Bible that teaches me to ‘speak out as a proud follower of Paul.’ And if there IS something in the Bible that says so, then YOU owe it to me as a fellow believer to show it to me. You owe me correction if I’m doing this wrong. But your opinion is just as worthless as my own. Your opinion is meaningless. Only the Word of God has meaning to us in these dialogues.
“I appreciate that you seem to be a follower of Paul even though you hesitate to say so.”
I am not a follower of Paul. I am a servant of Paul’s master. I am a student of Paul’s instructions. Paul was an intermediary, through whom the Word of God came to us in a very profound form. I am a follower of the Truth. I FOLLOW the Truth wherever He leads, as often as I am able to do so.
“I think that we have been misled by a first Corinthian unfocused emphasis.”
You said you didn’t know ‘my Bible’ used a word other than ‘follow.’ What is my Bible? Can you tell me? Is it one of the SIXTEEN Bibles I quoted from above? Is it an seventeenth I quoted from elsewhere? Is it a Greek Text? What is it? And what is this First Corinthians unfocused emphasis we have been misled by? What does that even mean?
“Can we now focus as brothers in Christ on the only gospel….Paul’s gospel … the gospel of grace?”
You clearly started this dialogue because you have something to say. I’m still wondering what that might be. If you have an argument to make, you haven’t made one here. Not even close.
There is but One Eternal Gospel. Paul is a messenger of that Gospel. Paul is the TWELFTH Apostle (he who replaced Judas. Apostles are not made by lottery – they are sent by Messiah Himself). The Apostles were teachers. We are the students. Messiah is the LEADER. I will follow Messiah, and I will let NO MAN come between myself and Him. No man, mike. Not even a sent messenger of the Gospel. If everything Paul ever said had to be checked, had to be tested, had to be proved against the Gospel of Messiah the KING (and it did – it had to be checked by us if we are obedient to the Commandment to PROVE all things), then why are we following Paul? Imitate Paul. Paul followed The Father by serving The Son. And if we MEMETES Paul, if we IMITATE Paul, that’s what we will be doing also.
Beef … when the quibbling and mere rhetoric and misconceptions are removed from your ‘Tome of Silence’ there are a few places to which I might yet respond.
“The doctrine comes from the Father” …. agreed as obvious
“I think you owe a quotation (I Cor 3) ….. I Cor 3:1-3 ( I must say that I seem to be having the same problem speaking to you) and I would add I Cor 9:1-2
“1 st Cor Mike, he never says follow me” ….. really? … ” be ye followers of me ” I Cor 4:16 and also I Cor 11:1 and further ” acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” I Cor 14:37
” get specific ” …. agreed I was somewhat lazy in assuming you were familiar with entire passages and could pinpoint my meaning, but on the other hand, it was my desire to point to entire sections supporting my position rather than to select rabbit trails. Paul’s assumed authority is totally evident in all of his epistles. Your condescending attitude of instruction is demeaning and unheard.
“we need to speak out as proud followers of Paul” (my quote) …. now here, finally you may have cornered me. I have made a statement to which I can not immediately point to a scripture. I would direct you though to 2 Cor chapter 11:18 ” I will glory also” and the surrounding chapter as the proud and foolish boasting would not be made unless forced … and I have the same feeling as to my boasting for Paul in defense of the evil contemporaries .
“something to say” …yes … follow Paul or fall away from grace ! ( the book of Galatians )
ps I heartily agree with you as to Paul being the true twelfth apostle as per Galatians 1:1 as he makes a point of denial as to the apostolic lots of Acts. “neither by man”
Let’s keep this organized and clear. You wrote:
“Now, chapter three shows clearly that when he speaks to them spiritually he says ‘follow me’…”
I responded:
‘I think you owe a quotation when you make a claim like that, mike.’
And then you provided the following verses:
1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
So, where is this clearly-spoken ‘follow me’? It isn’t there. It sounds to me like you’re just inserting your suggested meaning into Paul’s words and calling it ‘spiritual meaning.’ Very well. You may call it whatever you like but you run into the same problem of needing confirming witness. Where is your witness? You say Paul is saying something he hasn’t said on the ‘surface’ as it were, so how are you making your determination that Paul means something besides what he said, and he means it ‘spiritually’? You’d be doing yourself a favor if you don’t answer me by saying: ‘God told me so.’ That is how children discuss these matters.
“I must say that I seem to be having the same problem speaking to you…”
Meaning that you think I owe confirming witness. Fair enough. For what do I owe you confirming witness? Just tell me specifically what it is you would like me to bring confirmation for, and I will bring it here, Book, chapter and verse. But mike, you have to be specific.
“…and I would add I Cor 9:1-2…”
I Corinthians 9:1-2
1. Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2. If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
Still looking for that elusive ‘follow me.’ It isn’t there. Not in any of the verses you have referenced thus far.
Food for thought ….
Notice the significance of Paul’s rebuke of Peter in Gal 2:11
Paul is the special apostle of the gospel (Rom 1:1) received by direct revelation from God (Gal. 1:12)(Eph. ch. 3)
Paul is the apostle to the gentiles (Rom 11:13 and 15:16)
“my gospel” Romans 16:25
“our gospel” “followers of us” I Thes.1:5,6
“for ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus” ….I Thes 4:2
ok … fair enough I will try to get back on tract with the following.
As to ‘follow me’ not being properly cited …. I Cor 3:1-3 leads forward to the ‘masterbuilder’ in verse 10 and on to the ‘father’ in 4:15 and then ” WHEREFORE I beseech you, be ye followers of me ” (4:16) and you will note that the chapter and verse numbers were not included in the original writing of Paul’s letter. This is a pure flow of context and you are quibbling again.
Also a quibble…. you say I have requested witnesses from you …not so … my misplaced innuendo was as to carnal vs. spiritual ability to understand … skip it …sorry
I will admit that you are a tough opponent who can take a punch and keep bouncing back to life … it’s sort of like a zombie apocalypse which is wearing me down.
“Notice the significance of Paul’s rebuke of Peter in Gal 2:11…”
Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
What is the significance of this verse you would have us to note?
“Paul is the special apostle of the gospel (Rom 1:1) received by direct revelation from God (Gal. 1:12)(Eph. ch. 3)”
What ‘special apostle’? All the Apostles received their revelation directly from God.
Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God…
Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians chapter 3 I will not be posting here. If there is a verse that says Paul is a special apostle, please cite it. We know Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles. That’s the only difference between Paul and the other apostles. Paul had an assignment – they had an assignment. Special?
“Paul is the apostle to the gentiles (Rom 11:13 and 15:16)…”
Does this make Paul a special apostle? What is special about his assignment that sets him apart from the other apostles?
““my gospel” Romans 16:25”
What? The Gospel according to Matthew. The Gospel according to Mark. According to Luke. To John. So? There’s a Gospel according to Paul. Where is special?
“our gospel” “followers of us” I Thes.1:5,6”
I Thessalonians 1:6
Verbatim translation:
And you, IMITATORS of us became…
καὶ ὑμεῖς ΜΙΜΗΥΤΑΙ ἡμῶν ἐγενήθητε…
The word is MIMETAI (noun, nominative masculine plural).
You should hit the Greek, mike.
““for ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus” ….I Thes 4:2”
And? Apostles and Prophets give us Commandments from Messiah the KING. We’re to be servants of GOD, mike. Not men.
1 Corinthians 7:23
Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
“I will admit that you are a tough opponent who can take a punch and keep bouncing back to life … it’s sort of like a zombie apocalypse which is wearing me down.”
When I told you you will soon have bitten off more than you can chew, that was not an empty boast. This is what I do, mike. This is my life. He owns me. I know His Word.
I must admit that you are one tough opponent whom I will be sure to never challenge again as you keep bouncing off the mat, shaking off my strongest punches. It’s like a zombie apocalypse …. please forgive and release me from this stupid challenge !
ROFL!
Mike taps out in the 3rd round due to head strikes.
Well so long…as you are not responding honestly that we might reach a consensus or conclusion. I am tired of your disingenuous remarks such as ‘what is the significance” when you know very well that this shows Paul to be in a superior spiritual leadership position to Peter. You do a similar move with “my gospel”….. you lose this debate on substance even if you continue until midnight with quibbling distractions …. best wishes .. Mike …hold your hands high alone in the ring ….. let others judge.
Buahahahahhah! This is why I make popcorn and read BIN.
First time I’ve seen a man beg for mercy in a debate on scripture and then cry fowl after giving up with everyone watching.
Weak, mike. Very weak. So have your arguments and your tactics been from the very beginning.
You wrote:
“I am tired of your disingenuous remarks such as ‘what is the significance” when you know very well that this shows Paul to be in a superior spiritual leadership position to Peter.”
Will you now not only explain that Paul meant something besides what he said, but tell me what I know as well? Are you privy to my thoughts? I will tell you what I think, mike. I think you are about out of excuses. That’s what I think.
Peter was wrong. Peter was dissembling. He was double-dealing. Paul called him on it, just like I’m calling you on your terrible study and communication practices. Does it mean that I should be followed by others because I, as a brother in Messiah, have chided another brother? Hardly. We are told in Scripture to rebuke our brothers when they are worthy to be rebuked and that is what Paul did to Peter. Peter was worthy to be rebuked. That incident in NO WAY demonstrated that Paul had any superiority or authority over Peter. He didn’t. Your argument is found wanting.
“You do a similar move with “my gospel”….. you lose this debate on substance even if you continue until midnight with quibbling distractions…”
You are the only one who says he thinks so, friend. And you know what? I don’t believe you for a second. I think you’re just lying to yourself because you have no more stamina for this – which you started. Think better next time. Do word studies. Search the Greek. Learn the Scriptures – ALL of the Scriptures, which make your entire premise that we are to be followers of Paul, absurd on its face.
What you’ve produced here has been awkward and exasperating from beginning to end. You came to show off your knowledge of the Word and succeeded only in displaying how little about the Word you actually know.
There’s a lesson in that, mike. Make of it what you will.
“…let others judge.”
I always do.
Huzzah and Godspeed.
[email protected]
Beef’s position is not isolated, mike, regardless you question his honesty. Oh no, my friend, many believers read many debates and yet refrain from commenting probably because we don’t like to gang up on others and because many of us know that Beef has got this covered.
At the end of the day you called Beef out and now you claim there’s no point continuing this discussion. While i agree there’s little, to no, point i think it altogether disingenuous, of you, to claim victory when you couldn’t even show specifically where Paul was appointed, or called, a “special” Apostle or where Paul ever claimed that he was to be followed.
Get your act together and stop your whining or just shut up fool.
I suspect once yer dead is when the fun begins.
Unless you’re Mike Savage of course.
That poor man will just have to squeeze the destruction of billions in BEFORE he gets oblivionated I suppose.
WOW Bad-Clown, look at the comment string you started! whats a catalyst?
Christianity is a cult. Yeshua prophesied about Paul, the wolf in sheeps clothing. The one who would come after him, the one whom they would receive. Yeshua never appeared to Paul, it actually was Satan, appearing as a angel of light. All who follow the teachings of Paul, do so to your own detriment. Take it or leave it, just remember, you were warned.
Hal is a false teacher and you are a moron for posting this jiberish
i totally got pulled in by the mega sweet headline of the here article,
i just burst into song! so what them sunday xitans see doom a coming, only a fool can not see doom approaches! SING WITH ME!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U0frHjhZgc
More religious madness. These people are “prophets” for only one reason: Make money of the gullible tools. And hell they got it easy there in the united mistakes. Where there apparently are millions of gullible tools. Put your faith in a tvangalist.
The secular State of Israel was created by atheists , Communists and anti Christ forces for one purpose, it was created to fall. This NWO plan is playing out perfectly. The three main Monotheistic religions must be corrupted and changed into a One World religion that will encompass all religion and Philosophy . Protestantism has exploded into thousands of denominations and sects all believing they have the truth. Catholicism has been undermined by modernism and free Masonry with the advent of Vatican II. Talmudic Judaism and Islam are by their very nature anti Christ but could never become an all encompassing religion. The One world religion will contain them all and as many have suspected, but clearly misunderstood, controlled from Rome using the resources of the false Catholic Church. Luke 18:8 gives us a clue to the state of the world at the return of Christ. Protestant Zionists like Hal Lindsey are helping to fulfill Matt. 24 11 and 12. and fulfilling Luke 18:8 . When the secular state of Israel falls most of Protestantism will fall with her and the remnant will become even more secularized then they are now. After the NWO controllers have used Islam to destroy the Zionist state, Islam will be destroyed . All will be obliged to become members of the NWO’s religion which will have components of all religions and philosophies . Welcome to the NWO.
This guy Hal Lindsey did not know then and even now continues to not know that Christ prophesied from Isaiah 61 into Luke 4 of a JUBILEE. I have known of this prophecy since 1969. Though Lindsey is a pre-millennialist as I am, I have not regarded him to be anyone worth listening to for five decades starting while I was in college. Jonathan Cahn and Mark Biltz have delivered what I have anticipated from 1969 to 1993. Their books just confirmed for me the discussions and arguments I had in 1993 regarding Luke 21: 25 and David Barker’s book Jubilee on Wall Street:…”. Because of the information from a man on television in 1969 I recognized the economic upsets in 1973 and 1980. I anticipated the 1987 economic upset by 1984. I found and purchased David Barker’s 1987 book. Hal Lindsey is no Bible scholar. Dr. D James Kennedy was superior to Lindsey and was one of my teachers.