The Trinity Explained By The Composition Of The Bible
As I have had occasion to teach the Bible in numerous settings, inevitably, someone will ask about the Trinity. In fact, one of the toughest questioners I have had on this subject is my son Daniel who often asks difficult questions and will not accept half answers. I have used the egg illustration, and the water illustration, and the illustration in which I explained that I am a father and a son and a brother but still only one man. Unfortunately, none of these illustrations can fully explain or capture the true nature of God being three in one. The concept of God being trinity is indisputable(probably a good topic for a future blog) but explaining it in a manner that is understandable is another matter altogether.
I began to see a correlation with how the Bible is one book made up of many books and realized I may have discovered a simple, yet effective explanation for the Trinity. In fact, I tested this new explanation out on my son tonight and it hit home.
The Bible is one book. The word Bible means Book. The Bible is made up of 66 books. Everyone of those 66 books is Bible, yet each one of those books can stand alone and none needs any of the other books to be true and inerrant. Each of the 66 books has a distinct purpose, style and personality. Together, all 66 books has(not a grammatical error, as you will see below) one message and purpose, to reveal God’s plan of salvation through Jesus Christ.
This is true of God as He expresses Himself to us as Tri-une. One God, three distinct persons with distinct purpose(ministry), style and personality. God the Father does not need God the Son or the Holy Spirit to be fully God nor does the Holy Spirit need the Father or Son to be fully God and so on. Each member of the Trinity is God yet together, they are God with one purpose, to express the fullness of His love to His creation.
Whenever the topic of the Trinity comes up, I am always reminded of Deuteronomy 6:4. In our English Bibles it reads: Hear O Israel, the LORD our God the LORD is one. A literal translation would actually read as follows: “Hear O Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH are one.” (YHWH is God’s name with the vowels removed. The Hebrew scribes removed the vowels so no one could pronounce God’s name, that it might not be taken in vain.) Notice the grammatical mixture of the singular with the plural.
Just as God has given us His word, one Book made up of 66 books, so to God has chosen to express Himself to us as Trinity, one God – three persons.
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Why not tell those that ask the truth? That the trinity is a pagan concept adopted by the Catholic Church. Even though it is to be found no where in the entire Bible.
Both Webtser’s Dictionary as well as the Funk and Wagnall define the Trinity as:
“The state or character of being three.”
“Any union of three parts or elements in one.”
“A threefold consubstantial (sharing the same substance) personality existing in one Divine Being or substance.”
“The union of one God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three infinite persons.”
And the Catholic Encyclopedia states the following regarding the Trinity…
THE DOGMA OF THE TRINITY
The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: “the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.”
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers –the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit–those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.– Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905) -Evangelism 615.1
Those who proclaim the third angel’s message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God’s believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.–The Southern Watchman, Feb. 23, 1904, p. 122.
Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfillment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness. -Signs of the Times, June 19, 1901 par. 4
“The office of the Holy Spirit is to take the things of Christ as they fall from his lips and infuse them as living principles into the hearts opened to receive them. Then we will know both the Father and the Son. – {1888 799.1}” (This is from a letter she wrote rebuking Uriah Smith)
“God has never left Himself without witness on the earth. At one time Melchisedek represented the Lord Jesus Christ in person, to reveal the truth of heaven, and perpetuate the law of God (Letter 190, 1905).
“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.–Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . . {Ev 616.6}
“The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”–Manuscript 20, 1906. {Ev 617.1}
“The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.–Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897) {Ev 617.2}
“We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,–the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, –and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.–Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 51. (1905) {Ev 617.3}
http://www.remnantofgod.org/trinity.htm
The trinity doctrine was created by the Vatican.. and enforced by publishing edited (bogus) Bibles that “prove” that the trinity is true. Yet if you read the KJV Bible it says, 1 John 5:7, “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” Before it is said that “these three are one” proves the trinity, consider these facts…
Jesus said in Matthew 12:31 that blasphemy against Him are forgiven but blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. If the trinity is true doctrine, then what Jesus said will be self-contradictory, because if you blaspheme Jesus you also blaspheme the Holy Ghost since “they are one being”.
Read this verse, John 17:21 “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” Does this mean that all the disciples will be one big ball of arms and legs and heads because they are one? No, it simply means they are all one in AGREEMENT, one in FAITH. Ephesians 4:5 “One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
Consider what the Bible says about marriage… Genesis 2:24 “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” Look at married couples today… are they one being? 2 pairs of arms, legs, and 2 heads sticking out? Nope. They are one in agreement.
Jesus was crucified on the cross for our sins. If trinity is true doctrine, this means God Father and the Holy Ghost was also crucified on the cross in Jesus. Common sense (after reading the Bible), declares this is heresy.
Or how about Christ’s baptism? Matthew 3:16-17 “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” This is speaking of THREE separate Persons of the Godhead in THREE different locations at the same time! The Father in heaven, the Holy Ghost descending like a dove, and Jesus in water. This proves the trinity doctrine that God is one being and not three separate Persons, is false doctrine.
How about these verses? Acts 1:14 “These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.” Acts 2:1 “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.” Acts 2:46 “And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,” Romans 5:15 “Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:” There are many more verses regarding of being in one accord. But you get the idea. Whenever the Bible speaks of people/disciples being one, it means being in agreement, like minded, one accord, albeit still are separate beings unlike what the trinity speaks of God.
Therefore, 1 John 5:7 is actually saying that the three separate Persons of the Godhead, are in one agreement, likeminded, of one accord. So what can be concluded regarding the trinity doctrine? It is heresy. Bible proves it heresy, common sense after reading the Bible proves it heresy, and the very existence of the Godhead Himself proves it heresy.
Jesus claimed to be God – “Before Abraham was, I Am.” The Jews knew what He meant when they went to stone Him. John 1:1 – In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
When Annanias and Saphira lied in Acts 5, Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit to lying to God.
The RCC is a blight on the earth, but they do not get credit for inventing the Trinity. Just as a broken clock is right twice a day, every once in a while the RCC gets it right. The Bible clearly teaches the Triunity of God, from the Shema in the Old Testament to the command to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I only stated a few examples above of passages that express the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. To argue that Christ did not claim to be God is intellectually dishonest at best and the height of foolishness at worst.
scripsmyth
The Catholic Encyclopedia admits the Trinity is not biblical,
Catholic authority says that the Trinity “is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia.
The Catholic Encyclopedia comments: “In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180.”
The New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: “The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament].”
Update : The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits:
“The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention”
The formulation of ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.” End of Quote;
And one question if I may: if there are 3 and one was in Mary and the Spirit overshadowed Mary not the Father, then who is the Father of Jesus Christ??
Or is Christ simply the Father of Himself??
Three that talk to each other — Oh wait I forgot the spirit can’t talk ???
the trinity is a doctrine of an Antichrist.
If the father DID talk to the son would he have also been chatting to the others passing by? Or would it only be the son that heard him? Same question about Moses.
I don’t see why it seems strange that someone might have spoken to God?
“The concept of God being trinity is indisputable…”
Really? Have you met our friend Amminadab?
Hear Israel Oh Lord! Our Gods Oh Lord are one.
Why is the Trinity a Salvation Issue?
Those who have not studied the doctrine of the trinity never see it as a salvation issue because they do not understand exactly what it entails and all the implications. And so they typically have no idea that this is actually the biggest deception of all that is also related to the mark of the beast and the Sabbath day.
Remember that the trinity doctrine teaches a 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 god. That is, 3 gods that are co-equal, co-eternal that are not 3 gods but 1 god. 1+1+1=One. Three gods that have supposedly always existed. So how can Jesus be a literal Son if He has always existed alongside the Father? And how can the Father be a Father if Jesus is not really His Son? Hence the trinity doctrine and other similar beliefs like Unitarians deny that Jesus is the literal Son of God in one way or another.
If you do not confess Jesus is the Son of God than you are separated from God. “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.” 1 John 4:15. And again, “Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” 1 John 5:5
And if you deny Jesus is the Son of God and that God gave His literal Son then you make God a liar and you do not have eternal life. “He that believeth on the Son of God has the witness in himself: he that believeth not God has made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life.” 1 John 5:10-12
“But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through his name.” John 20:31
Scripture tells us that it is only by acknowledging that Jesus is the Son of God that we can be saved and have access to the Father. And if you deny Jesus is the literal Son of God then it is also impossible for God to be a literal Father. So it denies both the Father and the Son which is what John called antichrist as it opposes Christ being the true and literal Son of God. It denies that it was the literal Son of God that came in the flesh and died on the cross.
The Bible reveals over and over again that they are a real Father and Son. But the trinity doctrine says no. Some today including Adventist Pastors when asked is Jesus the Son of God reply, No! They say He is just a member of the Godhead playing a role. Yet nowhere is there even so much as a hint in Scripture that they are just role playing or are not really a Father and Son. God brought forth a Son whom He loves very much and Satan is doing his best to hide this fact.
And if the trinity doctrine is wrong, the Holy Spirit is really a creation of Satan rather than the Spirit of the Father and Son. Does it matter if we give our adoration to a creation of Satan rather than the Spirit of the Father and Son? The answer is obvious. Scripture says Satan wants to be worshipped like the most high God. Has he succeeded in accomplishing his goal of being included as deity? More and more today are praying and worshipping the Holy Spirit which the Bible never tells us to do. If the Holy Spirit is not a third being then what spirit would we have as per our belief and who would we be giving our adoration to? And if we believe the Holy Spirit can be worshipped and prayed to just like the Father and the Son, who receives our worship? It goes to Satan! Do you think the Father and Son will mind? It should require no explanation.
Revelation 13:17 states, “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
Did you notice that it is three things? It is not just the mark of the beast but also the name and the number of his name which is 666. The pagan origins of the trinity reveals that 666 comes from the trinity doctrine and sun and Satan worship!
The question was asked in the Catholic Catechism, “What is Sunday…” The answer was that Sunday “is a day dedicated by the Apostles to the honor of the most holy Trinity.” — (R&H, vol. 5, no. 24, p. 86)
An interesting statement considering “Sunday worship” and the “Trinity doctrine” both came from sun and Satan worship in Babylon, and they were both brought into Christendom by the Catholic Church whom God calls Babylon! They are also both about who we worship which Revelation 13 and 14 reveals is exactly what the mark of the beast issue is all about. So do we worship the one true God on His Holy day or the pagan Catholic 3 in 1 god? And what about the Seal of God. Which God do we need to be sealed by? The one true God the Father or the pagan Catholic 3 in 1 god. This would certainly explain why Revelation reveals so many will still be deceived and perish in the end.
For Adventists: Considering “Sunday worship” and the “Trinity doctrine” were both brought into Christendom by the beast (Papacy), then consider the following. “The third angel’s message has been sent forth to the world, warning men against receiving the mark of the beast or of his image in their foreheads or in their hands. To receive this mark means to come to the same decision as the beast has done, and to advocate the same ideas, in direct opposition to the word of God.” — (E.G. White, R&H, July 13, 1897)
E.G. White says there is still more to be revealed. “The light that we have upon the third angel’s message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood nor will it be understood until the unrolling of the scroll,” — (E.G. White, 6T, 17.1, 1900)
Christ was the Son of God before coming to earth. “Christ was the only begotten Son of God, and Lucifer, that glorious angel, got up a warfare over the matter, until he had to be thrust down to the earth.” — (E.G. White, Ms86, August 21, 1910)
Satan hates the Son of God and wants us to deny Him and not just for his own gratification. Once you fully understand this topic you will have no trouble seeing that the trinity doctrine is the work of Satan through the Catholic Church for the purpose of stealing your salvation. Is it any wonder Satan has so many workers trying to keep Christians trapped in this satanic doctrine
http://www.trinitytruth.org/
So how can Jesus be a literal Son
—
Uh …. was Jesus a daddy then? Did he have kids?
“As fundamental errors, we might class with this counterfeit sabbath other errors which Protestants have brought away from the Catholic church, such as sprinkling for baptism, the trinity,” — (J.S. White, R&H, September 12, 1854, p. 36). And hence both the Trinity doctrine and Sunday worship originated from sun and Satan worship in Babylon and were brought into Christendom by the Catholic Church whom God calls Babylon. We find this question in the Catholic Catechism, “What is Sunday…” There answer is that Sunday “is a day dedicated by the Apostles to the honor of the most holy Trinity.” — (R&H, vol. 5, no. 24, p. 86)
Scripsmyth
you may want to take the time and read what amminadab has written — if Amminadab does not cause you to begin to question the trinity then it is too late for you — it means Satan has locked up your mind.
Seekertruth… Amminaddad wrote nothing, his Copy and Pastes come from the SDA websites, teachings from that Witch Hellon White, as you fully know and yourself acknowledge HER WORK Also !! given to her by Satan on a trip to heaven and Yet no-one has gone to heaven according to SDA ….
crazy times
even so much of what was written was logical and factual, the trinity is not found in the Bible and amminadab wrote a good rebuttal. I only read one of his comments, they are way too long to read them all.
I have nothing to do with SDA and have not nor will I study their doctrine and All of the so called christian churches each have a little of the truth, how else can they deceive the people.
Truthseeker
“the trinity is not found in the Bible’
The word trinity agreed !
BUT….Acts 5 clearly shows they “LIED TO GOD”v4 “THE HOLY SPIRIT”v3 in context.
The HOLY SPIRIT has not to be blasphemed
The HOLY SPIRIT can be grieved
The HOLY SPIRIT can be Lied too
therefore making Him a personage
The reason is clear to me and billions of others, HE IS GOD the third part of the Triune God
WHOM INDWELLS US….sealed us for the day of redemption.
HOLY HOLY HOLY…. IS the 1/ LORD 2/GOD 3/ALMIGHTY
I don’t expect you to see it as you are NOT called to the rapture the BRIDE but you will be a Tribulation Saint as that is what you have sealed here on Earth…We come as we are called,…Few are chosen many called….you play your part well may i add
1:30 am here off for Zzzzz
LORD…. Y’shua …………..SON
GOD the…………….. HOLY SPIRIT…..
ALMIGHTY……………….. FATHER
HOLY HOLY HOLY …IS… Lord God Almighty
All three IS… (ONE)… as stated
Lord God Almighty.
crazy times
no I want nothing to do with a trinity nor the rapture.
Crazy why is the god you believe in so weak that he can not protect his people here on earth?? My Father and His Son protected their own no matter what occurs here on earth?
Crazy my Savior will marry His Bride in HIS kingdom HERE on earth after all things are defeated and placed under HIS feet.
Your rapture and wedding according to you and others takes place before the Tribulation and before the Day of the Lord — nothing is put under the Feet of Christ before the Day of the Lord.
and you misquoted its ” many are called –few chosen”
Truthseeker
My Father and His Son protected their own no matter what occurs here on earth?
—–
What colour are the Planet X’s in your dimension Truthseeker?
“amminadded wrote a good rebuttal. I only read one of his comments”
Yeah’ the ONE that suits you, and your band of merry men who meet on Saturn day in the wilderness !!, none of which are mentioned in ANY of the Churches of Revelation (except the last one) which you also claim NOT to follow Any of these creeds putting yourself OUTSIDE that which are HIS, so come on now your a TYPE of SDA as you acknowledge HER work and deny the finished work of Y’shua on the cross just as SDA do…for this the Word says your Wretched.
Furthermore Amminiadded has no rebuttal of his own …he also follows Satan’s prophetess and is Wretched , miserable Poor in Spirit, Blind and Naked as per the Last church of Rev (which I believe you fall into no matter your nay saying)
You say you are a christian ? and yet have No affiliation to any Church so by definition you are in NO position to claim to be christian or quote to real Christians as your merry men of Sherwood forest is NOT mentioned in Scripture so YOU do NOT belong to HIM , now if you would like to clear that up for me, I maybe able to more understand this group of yours which YOU claim Truth is by “Law keeping” as the real Church does NOT recognize that.
” many are called –few chosen” does not change the context of my post unlike your outright DISOBEDIENCE in NOT accepting Y’shuas finished work Heb 4:10
I also see you have deflected OFF the topic of the GOD the Holy Spirit…One WHOM you have yet to meet to become a member of the BRIDE you’ll need to be more diligent to enter His Sabbath rest…
Then you will be a real Christian.
ASK SEEK and you will Find, Holy Holy Holy IS the Lord God Almighty.
SDA does the same thing all aberrant groups do, they pick and choose scripture and decide what is relevant. Clearly the the book of Acts establishes the early church met on Sunday ane the Jerusalem council clearly shuts down their entire argument concerning the Sabbath and dietary laws. The Apostle Paul spent a good deal of time refuting SDA doctrine as it is the same as the Judaizers who came from Judah to put the Gentile believers under the law. Again, I agree that the Vatican is corrupt from it’s inception, but we claiming they started an idea in order to debunk the idea is not as easily done these days, as we have the record of history to prove otherwise.
If i had a dollar for every person who accused he RCC of taking books out or adding books into the Bible I would be a very rich man. This, historically, is an argument born or ignorance. I have heard all the stupid accusations from the RCC being responsible for Hitler and the assassination of Lincoln and Kennedy.
I have a good friend who is an elder with SDA and even he says it is heresy to study from the writing of White. We accept each other as brothers in the Lord and respect each other’s differences.
To deny the deity of Christ is folly, Jesus claimed to be God and that makes Him either God or crazy.
Philippians 2:5-8 explains the relationship if the incarnate Christ to the Father in a subordinate position, in order that Jesus should live with all the limitations of a man, in order to save man.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
The Old Testament bears witness that Christ is God: Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
God is called Alpha and Omega, first and last, Jesus uses this term for Himself.
Old Testament prophets talk of the day when YHWH Himself will rule over Israel and it is revealed that it is Messiah that these passages are talking about. The entire Gospel of John is dedicated to demonstrating that Jesus is God.
The only ones who deny this are those who A) do not believe the Bible to be the Word of God or B) those who would like to promote a works based doctrine, such as the SDA, Watchtower and Latter Day Saints.
If one reads the Bible without interference, it is clear that God represents Himself to us as a Trinity. “hear oh Israel, the LORD our God, the Lord are One(unity).”
“In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth” “all things were made by Him and without Him was not anything made that was made.”
If these passages cannot convince someone that the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God, then that person chooses to live in ignorance and rejects the teaching of scripture.
Scripsmyth
So the Apostles in Acts showed what is in the Torah is done away???
Really?? please explain then this clear instruction of Jesus Christ in Matthew 23 that HE gave to — HIS DISCIPLES.
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and —– to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 — All — therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, — that observe and do; —— but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Why would Christ give His disciples a clear command to obey what the scribes and pharisees taught from the Torah???
Do you think He only meant to obey UNTIL HIS DEATH — that would mean the 3 1/2 years Christ spent confirming the Covenant was focused upon totally incorrect teaching?????
YOU SIR are the blind one.
I did not say the Torah is done away with. What i said is that in the Jerusalem council James specifically said that Gentiles would not be required to live under the Torah as a requirement for salvation. The only rules given were to abstain from sexual immorality, blood, strangled meat and meat sacrificed to idols.
As believers we are not under Law.
scripsmyth
one more thought, why then if gentles are not to live under the Torah did Paul tell the gentile Romans in Romans 8 that God was writing the Torah on their hearts and minds??
Why would that be if they are not required to live by the Torah?
As believers we are not “under” the condemnation of the Law, Christ has paid the penalty for our sin thus there is no more penalty no condemnation that Christians are “under”.
Truthseeker
Heres a thought – next time you’re undergoing heart surgery get them to take a photo of a verse of Leviticus for us.
medina
The Torah is not written on “hearts” with a ball point pin!
What Paul and Jeremiah are describing is a conversion of our carnal human evil nature into the Father’s Holy Righteous Divine Perfect nature.
scripsmyth
I realize you do not want to continue this conversation because you can not justify your doctrine –and that you must follow the majority and base your beliefs upon one or two scriptures that seem to confirm what you want the Bible to say and ignore the rest.
BUT — going back to the questions of why would God put into those HE calls HIS Torah and why would Jesus Christ tell HIS DISCIPLES to obey the Torah?
Scripsmyth or even medina or —– anyone —
will you attempt to give a logical and scriptural answer refuting these two facts above that negate your incorrect doctrine that Christ end the Holy Law?
What would happen if someone did not obey ‘The Torah’ (defined however – uncarnal nature, love one another and God, the Ten Commandments, The Pentateuch and so on)?
If Jesus did not practice it?
Jesus said think not that I have come to abolish the law.
He didnt.
He was EXECUTED by it.
Why?
For practicing it?
Medina
I hope you do not believe that Christ was killed BECAUSE He followed the Law.
That is the very first time I have heard that foolish statement.
If Christ were killed because He obeyed the Law then Medina you have no savior.
Christ took OUR SINS UPON HIMSELF – the sins we ALL earn by transgressing the HOLY LAW and by dying Christ paid the penalty or the curse of the Law that every person that has or will ever live is UNDER.
The LAW is HOLY, JUST and GOOD! And you Medina are being judged by that Law.
Truthseeker
I hope you do not believe that Christ was killed BECAUSE He followed the Law.
If Christ were killed because He obeyed the Law then Medina you have no savior.
—-
The you claim He was executed for NOT observing the Law?
======
The LAW is HOLY, JUST and GOOD! And you Medina are being judged by that Law.
—-
And I am pointing out that saying “Think not that I have come to abolish the law” doesn’t have to mean practicing it or agreeing with pedants about it. The point of breaking a law is that the law will then break you and be fulfilled.
Truthseeker
I was making the geral point that criminals do not abolish the law. An onobserved ‘Law’ is not an abolished ‘Law’.
medina
your words are very difficult to understand, Is English your native language?
the way you compose statements makes them hard to follow.
I am just often not using a full keyboard.
Scripsmyth
I will add one more problem for you.
In Hebrews 8 Paul quotes from Jeremiah 31: 33 stating under the new covenant the Law is to be put in the hearts and minds — if you check in Strong’s you will find in verse 33 the word for LAW is — TORAH!
The LAW, the TORAH that you sir hate is being put into the nature of God’s Saints because the Torah defines and reveals the Holy, Righteous, Divine and Perfect Nature of God the Father and that HOLY Nature God the Father wants in HIS SONS.
I do not hate the Law, i love to study the Torah! I agree, the Torah tells us all the things you mentioned about the Holiness and goodness of God.
I am saved by the blood of Christ for it is by grace that I am saved through faith, not of works, lest i should boast.
Study Paul and you will realize quickly that he even rebuked Peter for causing Barnabus to stumble by reverting back to Jewish law when the Jews showed up. That passage blows any argument about the church being required to adhere to dietary laws.
let’s not forget the “kill and eat” passage of Acts. There is no way, taking the whole of scripture, that a viable argument can be made for SDA doctrine concerning the adherence of the Law.
scripsmyth
There is not one LAW for the gentiles and another for the Jews. God is not the author of confusion. What does a one half gentle do? Is he free to chose??
Remember they were dealing with gentiles that were just learning the Laws of God and came into God’s Church with many pagan ideas such as temple prostitutes.
The Statute regarding clean and unclean meat is in the Torah as are the Holy Feasts of God and the Sabbath. If Christ ended these then the whole Torah is gone.
You are mixing Jewish traditions with the Torah, Christ condemned the traditions of the Jews.
Christ clearly tell HIS Disciples to follow the Whole LAW and if a gentile is called they then become grafted into Israel.
The New Covenant is ONLY with the House of Israel and the House of Judah- no gentile is included they must be grafted in.
“kill and eat” did God not take the sheet back up? Peter never ate any of the vile meat.
Peter was extremely puzzled until he realized God was telling him gentiles can now be grafted into Israel.
By the way the sacrificial Law which was added because of transgressions and which pointed to the sacrifice of Christ was fulfilled in the one sacrifice of Christ — the Saints of God no longer sacrifice animals.
Scripsmyth
When a person repents of transgressing the Holy Law of God and is baptized into the death, burial and resurrection of Christ their sins are then forgiven and when by the laying on of hands they receive the Spirit of the Father –then they have in them the down payment on eternal life and are put into the body of Christ.
We are forgiven by Christ’s Death but we are saved by His resurrection to eternal life.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
Colo 2:16-17 – So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of the Messiah.
Rom. 7:6, “But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.”
That is all I have to say on this matter, I will let the Word speak for the Word.
scripmyth
In other words you want the Word of God to say only what you want it to say? That is the norm to day.
When you think about it that is exactly why there are 4000 flavors of so called christianity in Absolute confusion.
That might be all you have to say on the matter, Scrippy, but doctrine is established by the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses, innit?
Yet you rely solely on Paul. Poor form, Scripmeister, poor form indeed!
Scripsmyth
Great sound solid posts, relying ONLY on ” as it is written”, very rare down here in SDA land, the “word indeed speaks for itself”, good to see you drawing on various authors like Luke’s writings in Acts… reminds me of
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
Maranatha
Nice to see a friendly post! thanks for the encouragement
scripsmyth
crazy times, it appears, believes as you do that God wrote the King James “Version” of the Bible and all the words including easter came from God. Did you notice it is called a version?
I know better and I refer back to the Hebrew and the Greek. Men do the translating and men lie.
I know God did not “write” the KJV. I abhor the word Easter. I am constantly referring back to Greek and Hebrew as I study in order to learn the true meaning of Biblical text. Some English translations are better than others, but all suffer from translator’s bias. I am friends with the man who translated the NKJV book of Revelation. He is a Messianic Jew, a dispensationalist and a pre tribber. Do you think any of his belief affected his translation, I am sure it did. I also happen to agree with him in his views and, as I a,m teaching through the book of Revelation at my church, currently, I find that the KJV is a much better translation in Rev than even the ESV, which is my current version of choice for personal reading.
A book you may find very interesting is “The Jewish Yeshua vs. the Greek Jesus” which makes a strong case for the Gospel of Matthew to have been written in Hebrew and translated into Greek. Very interesting stuff.
GOD
#2. The eternal Godhead consists of Three Living Persons- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit or Ghost. These three beings are eternal. It is in the name of God- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit- that those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these three separate powers will cooperate in changing the character of the obedient subjects to reflect their own. (Gen. 1:26; Isa. 48:16; Matt. 1:23; 3:16, 17; 28:19; John 8:58; 18:5, 6; 14:26; 15:26; Acts 5:3, 4; 10:38; 17:22-29; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; Heb. 9:14; 1 Peter 1:2).
THE FATHER
#3. Our heavenly Father, the first Person of the Godhead, is a personal, spiritual Being, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal; infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth, and mercy; and is unchangeable. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Mal. 3:6; John 3:16; 14:9; 1 Cor. 8:5,6; 15:28; Eph. 3:9; 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:17; 1 John 4:8; Jer. 10:10-12; Heb. 1:1-3)
THE SON
#4. Jesus Christ, the second person of the Godhead, the eternal Son of God, Who created all things in co-operation with His Father, and the Holy Spirit, is fully divine. He took upon Himself man’s fallen nature from the seed of Abraham; He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary therefore fully human, yet never sinned at any time, and is the only Saviour from sin. He lived and experienced temptation as any other human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place (ending the handwriting of ordinances and feasts which were shadows of this grand event), was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. All judgment has been given unto Him. Man’s salvation is by grace through faith in Him and He will return a second time in glory for the final deliverance of His people. Jesus is known by many names in Scripture, not one of which is to be used exclusively when addressing the Saviour who reads the intentions of the heart. (Ex. 3:14; 1 Chr. 28:9; Ps. 44:21; Matt. 28:18,19; John 1:1-3, 14; 3:16; 5:22; 8:58; 10:30; 14:1-3; Micah 5:2; Matt. 1:21-23; 2:5, 6; 12:34-37; Luke 1:35; Acts 4:10-12; Col. 1:15-19; 2:14; 1 John 5:11,12; Eph. 1:9-15; 2:4-8; Rom. 3:23-26; 5:17; 6:23; 8:27; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; 2 Cor. 5:17-21; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 1; 2; 4:14,15; 7:25; 8:1-3; 9:28; 11:3; 1 Peter 2:21; Rev. 21; 22:20)
THE HOLY SPIRIT
#5. The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, is Christ’s representative on earth, and leads sinners to repentance and to obedience of all God’s requirements. He is the Comforter who guides us into all truth and convicts us of sin. He was active with the Father and the Son in creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture and safeguards it. He filled Christ’s life with power and those who respond to Jesus, He will renew and transform into His image. He gives spiritual gifts to the body of Christ (the church), empowering them to bear witness for Jesus. (Gen 1:1, 2; Matt. 28:18,19; Luke 1:35; 4:18; John 3:5; 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-15; Acts 1:8; 10:38; Rom. 1:1-4; 1 Cor. 2:10; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:30; Heb. 9:14; 2 Peter 1:21)
So??? the Son is His own Father as He is –one – with the other two??
I will have to research this but it would appear if the above were true it would be a transgression of the Torah —– and God can not and will never transgress HIS OWN LAW, His own Torah.
The Torah expressly forbids a son fornicating with his mother and sister and the flood of Noah came because men were having sex with men and the same with Sodom and Gomorrah.
or is the spirit (-ghost LOL) —who over-shadowed Mary — the father???
the triangle ?? split up some how and one was in heaven one was over Mary and one was in Mary??? in any event if the 3 are in one person I can not see how one can legally be his own father.
And GOD IS LAW and ORDER! and the above is confusion.
I understand it is a great “mystery” according to many — even though Paul states we can understand the spiritual by the physical — even — the Godhead. And remember the spirit -of- “THE” Father can be poured like water but can not speak in the first person.
Those that accept the 4th century pagan catholic dogma of a trinity are rejecting the Father and the Son i.e. they are then Antichrist.
And GOD IS LAW and ORDER! and the above is confusion.
—-
Surprising as it may seem Truthseeker … you are not God.