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Which Christian Bible is “Perfect”, the Catholic, King James, Mormon or the Jehovah Witness Version?

Thursday, October 27, 2016 18:55
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(Before It's News)

Most evangelical Christians embrace the idea that their denominational Bible is inerrant, infallible and the “Perfect” Word of God.  My assertion is that there is nothing perfect in this fallen, sinful world, especially language.  Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Spanish and English etc. all communicate human but flawed thoughts.  In Heaven, God and the angels speak to each other in a “Heavenly language”.  Words spoken in Heaven have precise and exact meaning.  Human words are “ambiguous;” they are open to multiple interpretations.

When God speaks to us using human speech, He is simply sharing with us His “Baby talk” that we can partially understand.  But we are not getting the “Full Counsel” of God, because we haven’t been made perfect (yet).  You can talk to a group of Christians who state that only their King James, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witness or Mormon Bible etc. is the inerrant, infallible Word of God.  Non-Christians observe the contradictions that Christians teach and are confused at how illogical some of their beliefs are.  The King James Version of the Bible has fewer books than the Catholic Bible.  So did the Protestants delete some of God’s Word, or did the Catholics add to God’s Word?  Other groups of Christians in the 1800’s teach that they have a “New and improved” version of the Bible; “We have corrected the errors that crept into the Catholic and Protestant Bibles; you can trust us.” L.O.L.

Christians couldn’t agree on what writings should be canonized in the early Church and I assure you that Christian leaders in this 21st Century A.D. would find it impossible to agree on what books should be included in our Christian Bible.  We can agree to disagree on Christian theology; but no one knows Truth, like our Creator God and His angels!!!

Most Christians believe in and should spread the message:  about the person of Jesus Christ, His blood atonement for our sins; His resurrection from the dead and that He is coming back.  Christians and other religious individuals should be painfully aware that we are mostly guessing at “What is Truth”!   We all go to “Spiritual salad bars” and pick and choose what we perceive will add meaning to our lives; heal our broken hearts; and appropriate forgiveness of sins committed against God, self and others.

Is the Christian God the author of confusion!  I find it easier to believe that Christians have embraced religious traditions handed down to them, and they have woven these ideas into the tapestry of God’s Word.  Once error is in the Bible or our minds, Christians will then feel obligated to protect this new message and proclaim it to the ends of the Earth.  And for that matter, when we willfully disobey a Christian precept, we are symbolically tearing out those Bible verses that are written in our hearts.  We omit acts that we should commit in our daily lives (that we claim to believe in); and we commit acts that we should omit and be ashamed of.

Do you realize that the virgin birth concept in Christianity was also taught in ancient pagan religions and by Greek philosophers, long before Jesus was born?  Why is this birth concept so captivating for these diverse groups of people?  What would motivate individuals to embrace thoughts that would appear to be fictional, like those found in a book or Hollywood movie?  Why and how would Christians transition from what Jesus and the Apostles taught, and believe differently in the 4th Century?  Do you really think that people becoming Christian will disavow or renounce all their pagan religious beliefs when they commit their life to Jesus The Christ?

Jesus is no longer on Earth. All of His Apostles, their children, and grandchildren are dead. If a Christian becomes convinced that Joseph is the biological father of Jesus, they may conclude that Jesus is a sinner (just like they are). Their beliefs may be devastated. If He is the product of human sexual reproduction, then they may feel that He is not worthy or perfect enough to be their Savior.

Throughout history humans have believed that God puts a “Created human spirit” in every child. Without exception, they are born with a sin nature.  I believe that Jesus is different from everyone else. He doesn’t have a created spirit in Him. Rather, God put His own Spirit in the body that Joseph and Mary gave Him. Thus, Jesus can be tempted just like us, but the Spirit of God gives Jesus the desire, the will and the strength to do what is right.

You can see the pagan mind set alluded to in the phrase “And he (Joseph) knew her not, until Mary brought forth her first born child, Jesus.”  You do realize that my parents and your parents had sex hundreds of times before we were born.  The pagans presupposed that the sex organ of Mary’s husband would somehow contaminate Jesus in the womb (a very pagan superstition).  Think about it this way, Christians say the Spirit of God indwells their body (the temple of God).  Christians sin against God, but we Christians can’t contaminate Gods Spirit in us.  In the same way, the Spirit of God living in Jesus can’t be touched by human sin, because God won’t let sin contaminate Jesus in body or Spirit!!!  In other words, there is no need to worry if Jesus is fathered by Joseph; this will make Jesus 100% human (like us), and not like the false Gods created in the minds and hearts of men.

Do you realize that if all Christians were Jewish proselytes only and no gentiles came to Christ, there would have been no virgin birth in the Christian Bible?  No Jewish person is looking for a virgin Messiah!!!  This is a main reason why few Jews embrace Christianity.  Their (our) Jewish Messiah is a blood relative of the Davidic Covenant.  Joseph and Mary are “Both” genetically related to King David, Bathsheba and all their descendants.  If you gave a DNA test to Joseph and Mary you would find that they both are related to King David and they both are needed to fulfill the Promise of Gods Covenant with King David.  But if Joseph isn’t the father of Jesus then Jesus is only HALF related to King David; and Jesus is only a 50% fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant.

Christians are always saying that Jesus is human just like us (and He is).  We will allow Jesus to work, eat, sleep, take a permanent vow of celibacy and maybe go to the bathroom L.O.L.; but we can’t imagine Him dating, getting married, having sex and children.  Somehow being “Just like me” seems a very ludicrous analogy for Jesus and me.  And remember, if the virgin birth were true, then Jesus would only have a family tree on Mary’s side. His heritage goes back to Adam and Eve; but Jesus’ male side of the tree would start at His conception, if Joseph were His stepfather.

Sarah being naïve and pretending that her being the “Step-mother” to Abraham’s first child by Hagar is going to make that child “The child of Promise” was at worst a lie of Satan and at best a desperate and vain attempt to fulfill Gods Promise.  Ishmael was a child of passion (or lust) and Isaac is the “Child of Promise”.  In the same way, Joseph being the “Step-father” to Jesus would keep Jesus from completing or fulfilling the “Davidic Covenant.

There are about 1 billion Catholics and 1 billion other Christians on planet Earth. This means there are about 6 billion Bibles, since most Christians have at least 3 Bibles.  In this 21st Century, neither Satan nor any humans have the opportunity or the power to destroy what Christians consider Gods Word.  If you go back to the 4th Century, the only individuals who had or could read the Christian Words of God are the religious leaders and their scribes.  If a prominent pagan became a Christian and rose to ecclesiastical power and influence, there would have been no Apostles to challenge Him and his pagan superstitions in the 4th Century. Thus, he could have hired the scribes who embrace his ideology.  He can promote leaders and stack the committees to adopt his values when a vote comes up.  Since most Christians came out of pagan worship, they already believed in the virgin birth When leaning on human logic, most Christians will agree that all children born of a human father become sinners.  People completely ignore the fact that a human mother also gives her child a sin nature.  In Luke 1:46-47, Mary referred to Jesus as her Savior; only sinners need a Savior!!!

Christianity almost died in the 4th Century simply because fewer pagans were becoming Christians.  God has a message to proclaim about the Messiah, and He isn’t going to let human pagan trivia concerns derail the Gospel Message over faulty human reasoning.  God loved the heathens so much that He overlooked their belief systems. This eliminated their stumbling block, and they came to Christ.  Jesus will correct their theology in Heaven.  Christians who loved their family and friends in the 4th Century were very happy that the latter had their names written in the “Lambs’ book of Life”. Later Jesus will introduce them to His earthly parents, Joseph and Mary.  And they all will laugh at the notions that a virgin birth or Jesus staying single is needed in order for Jesus to remain holy, pure and righteous.

The human birth of Arthur Trafford and of everyone else is just as miraculous as a virgin birth.  Everything that God does is easy, for His miracles have no degree of difficulty.  And a Christian’s salvation is sealed when a person puts their faith and trust in Gods Messiah Jesus The Christ.  There is no Bible verse that says, “Believe on the virgin birth and thou shalt be saved”.  There is no song that says “What can wash away my sins, nothing but the virgin birth”, “What can make me whole again, nothing but the virgin birth” L.O.L.

A “Spiritual birth” is miraculous. A virgin birth is unnecessary. Furthermore, it makes Jesus unlike us.  The virgin birth dogma keeps the modern-day Jews from accepting the Christian Jewish Messiah.  God could have brought Jesus into this world “full grown” just like Adam and Eve.  But since God had already created the Institution of Marriage and the Institution of the Family, then it is logical that Jesus should be born just like us.

This verse applies to a person getting married.  “Flee from youthful lust and pursue righteous, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart”.  The time we are single is to prove to a future mate that we have self-control; and celibacy is a stage to experience and not a destination of misery to embrace or desire.  From age 18 through age 29 Jesus had every right to get married (and be like us).  If Jesus was married, His marriage bed would be “Undefiled” because even the Apostles all agreed that they could “take a wife” and still be righteous. 

  Every male and female (including Jesus) is motivated by God to marry.  God created sexual pleasure and Jesus would be a perfect example of how to be a better child-of-God, mate, and parent if He gets married.  Some Christian leaders are encouraged or required to stay single because the Church would have to pay them 2 to 3 times more money if they had a mate and three or four children.  If they take a vow of poverty, they won’t even ask for a pay-raise.  Piety (self-righteous) getting married to celibacy (moral purity) is a very unholy marriage, simply because “There is none righteous, no not one”.  The best way to resist sexual temptation and flee youthful lust is to GET MARRIED.  What is unique about marriage is that a person is experiencing the same sexual pleasure in marriage that they felt while single (but without the guilt, regrets or shame) AMEN TO THAT!!!

Even if Christians had a perfect translation of God’s Word in their language, we still wouldn’t have a perfect understanding of its meaning, and we certainly don’t have a perfect desire to do God’s Will.  2 Timothy states: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction and instruction in righteousness” (This doesn’t apply to what has been added or changed in the Bible!!!)  God uses English to communicate with me, but His Holy Spirit is a better guide to lead me to Truth; for human words, human wisdom, and human intellect are so distracting even when God communicates to us in the language we know; for sin has permeated the whole universe, so we continually find ourselves asking “What is Truth”?

 

The Truth is:

A pagan mindset reveals their god is violent and out to damaging us.  Their god’s promote disorder, anarchy, violence, chaos, and hatred and reflects discord and confusion in how humans are to worship of the One True God (out of LOVE and not out of fear of being cast into hell for eternity).  A person’s pagan god is a BULLY L.O.L.

Only your sins are in the lake of fire.  The part of us made in the Image of God has already been redeemed.  My loving God has the power, desire and opportunity to save all of humanity 2,000 years ago (without the need of a virgin birth), or help from anyone’s good works (or thoughts) to save them. 

Stop limiting the Creator God and know He doesn’t adhere to the “Throw the baby out with the bath water” principle.  Human in hell is a pagan viewpoint that has been adopted by the Christian community.  God is 100 % LOVE and He only punishes our sin nature (in hell for eternity).  We were not created so God could destroy us for not be “Like” God, and God already knew we would sin before He created the universe. 

Read my essay “No humans in hell” and you will be aware of why you have been deceive into believing God is like you, me and the Apostles (for the Apostles said “Shall we call fire down from heaven and DESTROY OUR ENEMIES) L.O.L.  God is not unloving LIKE ALL OF US are.

We are all sinners in the hand of a loving God, and in the future God will separate sinning professing Christians from their sins (God does the same for all humans that have ever lived —- for God shows no favoritism to any one (no Jew, Muslim or Christian) will be more saved than anyone else. !!!

Sincerely,

ArthurTrafford.com

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  • TCB

    “Most evangelical Christians embrace the idea that their denominational Bible is inerrant, infallible and the “Perfect” Word of God.”

    This is an outright falsehood. Arthur, you are again making nonsense assertions without anything to back them but your flawed preconceptions. Apart from a few fringe ‘King James Onlyists’ there aren’t any pastors or church leaders who would agree with your statement, and certainly no believing theologians would agree with it.

    “Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Spanish and English etc. all communicate human but flawed thoughts.”

    Is it your contention then that God is unable to inspire a flawless volume in any human language? I have yet to see you answer even a single question I’ve put to you, so I won’t be waiting for an answer to this one.

    “Words spoken in Heaven have precise and exact meaning.”

    Arthur will now expound on matters of another world – and he will do so authoritatively. And for some reason, he feels he should be believed.

    “The King James Version of the Bible has fewer books than the Catholic Bible. So did the Protestants delete some of God’s Word, or did the Catholics add to God’s Word?”

    A mystery you should seek to solve. And one which is easily solved, for anyone interested in doing a bit of reading on the history of the Old and New Testaments.

    “Christians couldn’t agree on what writings should be canonized in the early Church…”

    Somewhat true. But a general consensus was reached and canonical status was imparted to all Books of our modern New Testament long before the Catholic Church (in any of its pre-iterations) had anything to say about it. Yet another fact uncovered by diligent study.

    “We can agree to disagree on Christian theology; but no one knows Truth, like our Creator God and His angels!!!”

    We can believe the Word of God or we can reject it. THOSE are our choices. We pick either one or the other – and there is no getting around that choice. Freedom of choice. There it is. Reducible in all cases to TWO. Choose.

    “Christians and other religious individuals should be painfully aware that we are mostly guessing at “What is Truth”!”

    Something only a man who does not believe the Word of God would say.

    “We all go to “Spiritual salad bars” and pick and choose what we perceive will add meaning to our lives…”

    That is what YOU do, Arthur. For others, there is a more certain Way.

    “I find it easier to believe that Christians have embraced religious traditions handed down to them…”

    Which of course they have, but this is in no way inculpatory to the Bible. The Bible is not to be blamed for men’s errant traditions.

    “….and they have woven these ideas into the tapestry of God’s Word.”

    A slander which you will not be able to support with anything but your opinion. This alone is a terrible stumbling block for you. Fortunately, the folks around here aren’t so easily swayed by the errant opinions of Scripture-accusers.

    “Once error is in the Bible or our minds, Christians will then feel obligated to protect this new message and proclaim it to the ends of the Earth.”

    So? Pick a single example you think is an error. Produce it here and I will demonstrate, VIA THE EVIDENCE, that it is no error at all. (Unless you pick something that is actually an error, like the Comma Johanneum, in which case I will agree with you and tell you what a good job you’ve just done.)

    “Do you realize that the virgin birth concept in Christianity was also taught in ancient pagan religions and by Greek philosophers, long before Jesus was born?”

    And I noticed you haven’t bothered to even TRY to claim the ten thousand dollar bounty, payable by ME to YOU or anyone else who can defend that outright lie with meaningful evidence. But lying comes easily to you, so why don’t you just repeat it a few dozen more times. For some, repeating a juicy lie is more fun than getting paid ten grand.

    “Why is this birth concept so captivating for these diverse groups of people?”

    Because it is an integral component of the Word of God which people find impressive and memorable.

    “All of His Apostles, their children, and grandchildren are dead.”

    If you believed anything Jesus said, you wouldn’t have said that either.

    “If a Christian becomes convinced that Joseph is the biological father of Jesus…”

    then they abide in gross error and will die in their sins. Not to put too fine a point on it Arthur, but you’ve targeted a soteriological (salvational) issue and decided to do it harm. Most unwise.

    “I believe that Jesus is different from everyone else.”

    You don’t believe He’s different enough.

    “You can see the pagan mind set alluded to in the phrase “And he (Joseph) knew her not, until Mary brought forth her first born child, Jesus.”…”

    Speak for yourself, O he who sees things which do not exist.

    “…there is no need to worry if Jesus is fathered by Joseph…”

    Whether God or Arthur Trafford knows best, you be the judge.

    “Do you realize that if all Christians were Jewish proselytes only and no gentiles came to Christ, there would have been no virgin birth in the Christian Bible?”

    Another outright lie fostered by an ignorance of biblical history. And another question we DO NOT HAVE TO GUESS AT. Examine the evidence for yourself. How, you ask? Simple. We see how the ANCIENT ISREALITES translated Isaiah 7:14 into GREEK when they translated the Hebrew into what became known as the Septuagint. And guess what, Arthur – they didn’t use the Greek word for maiden – they used the Greek word for VIRGIN. 350 years B.C. Go look it up. And then stop presuming to teach until you earn the right to teach. You are recklessly presumptuous.

    “No Jewish person is looking for a virgin Messiah!!!”

    Try to keep your arguments straight, won’t you?

    “This is a main reason why few Jews embrace Christianity.”

    Jews base their rejection of Christianity on an institutionalized Jewish rejection of Christ.

    “But if Joseph isn’t the father of Jesus then Jesus is only HALF related to King David…”

    Not according to the Law of God.

    “In the same way, Joseph being the “Step-father” to Jesus would keep Jesus from completing or fulfilling the “Davidic Covenant.”

    Not according to the Law of God.

    “If you go back to the 4th Century, the only individuals who had or could read the Christian Words of God are the religious leaders and their scribes.”

    False. There were laws in place criminalizing ownership of the Scriptures at that time by anyone but a church authority. But by then, the Gospels had proliferated into over a hundred languages and had been copied and recopied such that NO ruling authority could ever hope to suppress the Word. All amply covered in biblical history for anyone who bothers to study the subject.

    Your contention that fourth century alterations to the Word would be undetectable by us today is a NON STARTER based simply on the fact that we have early second century documents with which to cross compare older Manuscripts. Your contention is false, Arthur. Any late additions to the Scriptures are detectable and have been detected.

    FURTHERMORE, your contention that God has not protected His Word, as He has promised to do, makes God a liar. But God doesn’t lie.

    “The human birth of Arthur Trafford and of everyone else is just as miraculous as a virgin birth.”

    Yes, Arthur. We know you put your own authority on a level with God’s. You’ve made that patently obvious.

    “There is no Bible verse that says, “Believe on the virgin birth and thou shalt be saved”.”

    But there is one that says: Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

    Now, you teach that Jesus had I AM living in Him, but was not Himself I AM. Thus, you teach a lie and would take others with you to death in sin. This is very important material and you are not treating it with the respect that it deserves.

    “Every male and female (including Jesus) is motivated by God to marry.”

    More lies. The Apostle Paul was motivated by God to remain UNmarried.

    “Even if Christians had a perfect translation of God’s Word in their language, we still wouldn’t have a perfect understanding of its meaning…”

    That much is true and the Scriptures speak to that phenomenon. But Arthur? What is the Bible worth to you if you yourself count on it for so little? Why do you waste your time and other’s time with your doctrine when most of it contradicts the Word? Why do you think you know better than what is written? And why won’t you even ATTEMPT to corral something akin to meaningful evidence with which to support your contentions and bring it here to rebut my charges?

    “…we continually find ourselves asking “What is Truth”?…”

    And some of us will never know before it’s too late. But others of us will trust in Him: we will trust what He has had written and what He has promised to protect and we will trust what He has given us as a faithful authority and a light to guide our feet in our search for The Way, the Life and ALL TRUTH.

    • …Any spiritually initiated person can see at a glance, that Arthur trafford is an earthly man trapped in an earthly paradigm of “human” understanding. Completely ignorant of any higher thought or discernment of spiritual concepts…He’s the poster boy for “RELIGIOUS IDENTIFICATION”. Religions are built from men’s traditions…

    • …ARTHUR TRAFFORD…I have a question for you. Tell me what you believe, happens, to our human/physical bodies at the time of our earthly death…what do you think happens? I’m sure your traditions contain this info. Tell me…please.

  • “No Jewish person is looking for a virgin Messiah!!!”

    “In the same way, Joseph being the “Step-father” to Jesus would keep Jesus from completing or fulfilling the “Davidic Covenant.”

    “The human birth of Arthur Trafford and of everyone else is just as miraculous as a virgin birth.”

    ==============

    SEEDLINE?

    Jesus as God out, (Real) Jews as Gods in

    Arthur Trafford: “I AM GOD! BEHOLD MEEE! ARTHUR. TRAFFORD. COM!”

    —–

    :???: :???: This is going well.

    • Hello Damn EL:

      I just became aware of what you are saying or implying in the name you have chosen to go by on this website. EL literally means “God” or “Deity”. So, you are shouting out the idea of “Damn God” or “God damn”.

      This means you are a very angry person who has probably been bullied by religionist most of your life. Plus having a witch riding a broom in your name title clearly reveals you are into witchcraft or Satanism. But I make no value judgments against you, for we are all sinners in the hand of a loving God.

      • Psst, Arthur, it’s an “I” not an “L” and all of Damien’s user names are anagrams.

        Oh and you said you weren’t judgmental right after judging.

        Stupid is as stupid does, eh?

  • Since most Christians came out of pagan worship, they already believed in the virgin birth.

    =============

    Keep telling you: 10% of the Roman Empire was Jewish.

    So what would that be in the cities Christians proselytized in?

    30%?

    • Hello Damn EL:
      I just became aware of what you are saying or implying in the name you have chosen to go by on this website. EL literally means “God” or “Deity”. So, you are shouting out the idea of “Damn God” or “God damn”.

      This means you are a very angry person who has probably been bullied by religionist most of your life. Plus having a witch riding a broom in your name title clearly reveals you are into witchcraft or Satanism. But I make no value judgments against you, for we are all sinners in the hand of a loving God.

      • Bite me!

        It actually means, amongst other things, that I love horror novels, dark nights, folk culture, dragons and forests.

        • Damn means:
          “To bring condemnation upon; ruin”.

          Not exactly a positive Christian expression that exhibits love, forgiveness and respect for others L.O.L.

          If D.A.M.N.is an acronym then try to get a more “Encouraging” word that shows a less negative, and hateful message in your demeanor.

          • DAMIEN
            MEDINA
            MEIDAN
            MAIDEN
            IM ADEN
            DAMN EI

            Are you feeling it?

          • I’d have to ask to know for sure but i think Damn EI does it for the same reason i misspell “I” and that is to give the feeble minded something to focus on other than what is important like questions/criticisms.

  • The short answer is that no translation is to be considered “Perfect” especially not those from religions who felt the need to write their own Bible. It has previously been put to the author that scripture, ie the canon texts in the original languages, has been protected as God promised to do. A point that he patently ignores and the question is why would he do that?

    Speaking of repeating false assertions that have already been covered, Arthur Trafford, wrote…

    “… the virgin birth concept in Christianity was also taught in ancient pagan religions…”

    … and seems to have forgotten, or hopes no one will remember, that in a previous article…

    /religion/2016/10/the-true-reasons-why-christians-have-accepted-the-virgin-birth-2516996.html

    … he was taken to task on three identities, Adonis, Bacchus, Krishna, from a list he provided. It was shown that the historical literary record absolutely refuted his claim yet here he is again repeating it. This tells me that he’s one of the adversary’s minions and only here to take as many folk as he can into the lake of fire with him.

    • Mr. Mayhem:

      You have an appropriate name “Mayhem” that represents a pagan mindset which reveals your god is violent, and our to damaging us. Your god promotes disorder, anarchy, violence, chaos, and hatred and reflects discord and confusion in how we are to worship of the One True God (out of LOVE and not out of fear of being cast into hell for eternity). Mayhem, your god is a BULLY L.O.L.

      Only your sins are in the lake of fire. The part of us made in the Image of God has already been redeemed. My loving God has the power, desire and opportunity to save all of humanity 2,000 years ago (without the need of a virgin birth), or help from anyones good works (or thoughts) to save them.

      Stop limiting the Creator God and know He doesn’t adhere to the “Throw the baby out with the bath water” principle. Human in hell is a pagan viewpoint that has been adopted by the Christian community. God is 100 % LOVE and He only punishes our sin nature (in hell for eternity). We were not created so God could destroy us for not be “Like” God, and God already knew we would sin before He created the universe.

      Read my essay “No humans in hell” and you will be aware of why you have been deceive into believing God is like you, me and the Apostles (for the Apostles said “Shall we call fire down from heaven and DESTROY OUR ENEMIES) L.O.L. God is not unloving LIKE ALL OF US are.

      We are all sinners in the hand of a loving God, and in the future God will separate sinning professing Christians from their sins (God does the same for all humans that have ever lived —- for God shows no favoritism to any one (no Jew, Muslim or Christian) will be more saved than anyone else. !!!

      Sincerely,
      ArthurTrafford.com

      • Your opinion of me is singularly unimportant, Arthur, but it is interesting that you imagine you know what i’m about without having the decency to ask me first.

        Before i can address the remainder of your straw-man argument we need to come to terms. That is you need to define “love” and “hell” to ensure we don’t wind up talking passed one another. I’m guessing you haven’t the faintest idea how to go about this and will waffle on about warm fuzzy feelings and eternal flames but you might surprise me so have at it, chump.

        Or, Arthur, you could simply provide evidence for your claim that…

        “The pagan foundation of MANY aspects of Christianity is obvious;”

        … because there really isn’t much point proceeding until you do.

        /religion/2016/10/the-true-reasons-why-christians-have-accepted-the-virgin-birth-2516996.html

      • Perhaps you will tell us precisely WHAT the pagan foundations of Judaism and Islam are first Arthur?

        They, like Seventh Day Advventists etc did come after the first religion of Christianity so they clearly must have pagan foundations…

        So what are they?

    • …Arthur Trafford is NOT Christian. Has zero faith in the WORD of God. Has completely missed the boat as far as the Latter Rain is concerned. I would not trust him to be close to any of my kids…at any time.
      …Traditions of men, make VOID, the word of God. Trafford’s traditions have completely displaced the gospel truth in his mind. I don’t think there is anything to do for him…And He certainly can’t do anything for anyone else, either.

  • Religion is man made, Spirituality, God given.

    Everyone is a child of God, he gave the breath of life to ‘ ALL ” . We are all sons and daughters of God, regardless of religion.

    I heard if I study some one elses religion, I would learn more about more my own. The answer was so true, thank you God. AMEN

    • Hello Mr. or Ms. Anonymous:

      I appreciate what you said. And it is obvious that a relationship with God and each other is more important than religion. Everyone in the next life will have the same beliefs.

      From Adam and Eve’s children up to the 21st Century, there is no telling how many billions of humans have been murdered by religionist demanding that others accept a certain religion or die.

  • Isn’t it great how Arthur Trafford comes here to teach, but ends up being schooled by the commentators on his own articles? At some point he should start to wonder why that is. I’m sure there’s a reason for it. It’s like Ray Charles leading a blind person through a minefield. At least Ray could play.

    • Clucker…You can’t really call it ‘getting schooled’…trafford is way past the time when he could ever again be a student. He is FULL of himself…no room in there for anything else.

  • After all the Apostles are dead, then the Catholic Church started teaching non-Christian dogma for the next one thousand years; and the Protestants now believe what the Catholics added to scripture. And the Protestants are unaware of what was deleted from their Bible (Jesus being married and having a child). And the Protestants saying that Jesus lived before his conception, for it is impossible for anyone to exist before they are conceived in their mother’s womb (plus, there is no need for Jesus to exist before he is conceived.

    The below information: Credit to Keith Piper

    DOCTRINAL AND PRACTICAL ABUSES OF ROMAN CATHOLICISM SCRUTINIZED:
    http://www.gospeloutreach.net/romanerr1.html
    1. Traditions of men equal to the Scripture
    “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy or vain deceit, after the tradition of man, …. and not after Christ.” (Colossians 2:8)
    “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” (Matthew 15:3)
    “Ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. Ye hypocrites.” (Matthew 15:6-7)
    “In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:9)
    “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind.” (Matthew 15:3, 6-7, 9, 14)
    “We ought to obey God, rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

    2. Another Gospel: Salvation by Grace Plus Works and Sacramental Salvation
    “I declare unto you the Gospel … how that Christ died for our sins … that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day, according to the scriptures …”
    (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
    “I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is thepower of God unto salvation, to every one that believes …” (Romans 1:16)
    Galatians 1:6-9. “So say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.” (Galatians 1:9)

    3. Works for Salvation
    “Knowing that a man is NOT justified by the WORKS of the law, but by the FAITH of Jesus Christ, Even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and NOT by the WORKS OF THE LAW: For by the WORKS of the law shall NO FLESH be justified.” Galatians 2:16.

    4. Confession to man and not to God
    “Who can forgive sins but God only.” (Mark 2:5-11)
    Acts 10:43 “through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”
    “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)
    “He is the propitiation for our sins …” (1 John 2:2)

    5. Mandatory celibacy
    “A Bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife.” (1 Timothy 3:2)
    “Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and Cephas?” (1 Corinthians 9:5)
    Peter was married, because Jesus healed His mother in law. (Matthew 8:14 and Luke 4:38)
    “It is not good that the man should be alone.” Genesis 2:18
    “To avoid fornication, let EVERY man have his own wife, and let EVERY woman have her own husband.” (1 Corinthians 7:2)
    “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils Speaking lies in hypocrisy having their conscience seared with a hot iron their FORBIDDING TO MARRY, and commanding to abstain from meats.” (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

    6. Baptism of infants by sprinkling for salvation
    If you believe with all your heart you may. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (Acts 8:36-37)
    “Baptism is the answer of a good conscience towards God.” (1 Peter 3:21)
    If we can get saved by baptism, then Christ’s death was a waste of time. (Galatians 2:21)
    John 3:5 say “Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God?”
    “With the washing of water by the word.” (Ephesians 5:26)
    “being born again, … by the Word of God.” (1 Peter 1:23)
    “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost …?” (Acts 10:47)
    1 Cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

    7. Transubstantiation
    Metaphors in the scripture:
    John 10:7 “I am the door.” Did Jesus mean He was literally wooden? No.
    John 14:6 “I am the way.” Did Jesus mean He was literally a road? No.
    John 15:5 “I am the vine.” Did Jesus mean He was literally a tree? No.
    John 8:12 “I am the light.” Did Jesus mean He was literally a torch or a sun? No.
    John 6:48 “I am the bread of life.” Did Jesus mean He was literally a loaf of dough? No.
    John 6:63 states clearly that Jesus was speaking spiritually, not literally: “The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.”

    8. The Mass
    John 19:30 Jesus said, “IT IS FINISHED”,
    Nor yet that He should OFFER HIMSELF OFTEN…9For then must He OFTEN have suffered since the foundation of the world : but now 10ONCE in the end of the world hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.” (Hebrews 9:25-26)
    So Christ was 11ONCE offered to bear the sins of many.” (Hebrews 9:28)
    “We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ 4ONCE FOR ALL.” (Hebrews 10:10)
    “But this man after He had offered 5ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOR EVER, sat down on the right hand of God.” (Hebrews 10:12)
    “By ONE OFFERING He has perfected FOREVER them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14
    “Now where remission of these is, there is 7NO MORE OFFERING FOR SIN.” (Hebrews 10:18)
    “For Christ also has [12] ONCE suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.” (1 Peter 3:18)
    Christ alone on the cross “made reconciliation for the sins of the people.” (Hebrews 2:17)
    “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.” (1 Corinthians 5:19)
    “For if, when we were enemies, WE WERE RECONCILED to God by the death of His Son.” Romans 5:10.
    “God, who HAS RECONCILED us to Himself, by JESUS CHRIST.” (2 Corinthians 5:18)
    “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet NOW HATH HE RECONCILED.” (Colossians 1:21)

    9. Mediators other than Christ
    “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5)
    Contacting the dead is forbidden in Deuteronomy 18:10-11

    10. Mary worship
    “… the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the Queen of Heaven, … that they may provoke me to anger.” (Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-19, 25)
    “My spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior.” (Luke 1:47)
    “For ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God.” Romans 3:23
    “There is none righteous, no not one.” (Romans 3:10)
    Jesus the only way, not Jesus plus Mary
    “Come unto ME, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)
    “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)
    “No man cometh unto the Father, but by ME.” (John 14:6)

    11. Purgatory
    “When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.” Hebrews 1:3, and 2″There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 8:1 and John 5:24)
    “To be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.” 2 Corinthians 5:8.
    Luke 16:19-31 reveals that there is a great gulf between paradise and hell. People cannot pass from one to the other.

    12. Selling of Indulgences
    “None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.” Psalm 49:7.
    “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold … but with the precious blood of Christ” … (1 Peter 1:18-19)
    Acts 8:20-23 saying: “Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the GIFT OF GOD may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness …”

    13. Idolatrous images
    Exodus 20:4-5 Thou shalt not MAKE unto thee ANY graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth Thou shalt not BOW DOWN thyself to them Nor SERVE them.
    Deuteronomy 4:16 “Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and MAKE you a GRAVEN IMAGE, the similitude of ANY FIGURE, the likeness of MALE or FEMALE.”
    Deuteronomy 16:22 “Neither shalt thou SET thee UP ANY IMAGE: which the Lord thy God HATES.”
    Deuteronomy 27:15 “CURSED be the man that MAKES ANY GRAVEN or MOLTEN IMAGE, an abomination unto the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place.”

    14. Peter as the Rock of Matt. 16 rather than Jesus
    “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus”. (1 Corinthians 3:11)
    “He is the Rock, His word is perfect.” (Deuteronomy 32:4)
    “The Lord is my Rock, and my fortress.” (Psalm 18:2)
    “For who is a God save the Lord? Or who is a Rock save our God.” (Psalm 18:31)
    “the stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner.” (Matthew 21:42)
    “the rock that followed them was Christ.” 1 Corinthians 10:4
    “other foundation can no man lay then that is laid which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:11)
    Christ is “the stone … which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other … ” (Acts 4:11-12)
    “Christ is the chief corner stone” in 1 Peter 2:4-8.
    “To whom coming, as unto a living stone. (v.4)
    Behold I lay in Zion a Chief corner stone … he that believeth on Him shall not be confounded. (v.6)
    The stone which the builders disallowed is become the head of the corner. (v.7) And astone of stumbling, and a rock offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient.” (v.8)
    “And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.” Ephesians 2:20.

    15. Names of Blasphemy
    What is blasphemy? John 10:33“….thou, being a man, makest thyself God.”
    Blasphemous names of the pope
    Pontifex Maximus Christ as the only bridge to heaven. (John 14:6)
    Holy Father
    Father (Pope) Matthew 23:9, “Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your father which is in heaven.”
    Monseignor “my Lord”
    Reverend Psalm 111:9 “Holy and Reverend is his name.”
    God Himself on Earth
    Blasphemous names of Mary
    Mother of God
    Queen of Heaven
    Gate of Heaven

    16. Conclusion:
    God says: “COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” (Revelation 18:4)
    SHORT LIST OF CATHOLIC ERRORS:
    Church tradition the equal of scripture
    Works salvation, grace plus works, sacramentalism
    Confession to man and not God
    Mandatory celibacy of priests (1139 at the 2nd Lateran Council)
    Infant baptism
    The Mass & Transubstantiation
    Purgatory
    Selling of Indulgences (selling salvation)
    Veneration of Mary & other saints, prayers to saints
    Mary Worship
    a. Perpetual Virginity
    b. Queen of Heaven
    c. Mother of God
    d. Co-Mediator
    e. Source of Grace, all grace comes through her
    f. Immaculate Conception
    g. Bodily Assumption
    h. Co-Redemptor, salvation depends on her intervention & help
    i. The “Gate of Heaven”
    11) Mediators other than Christ
    12) Idolatrous images, icons, statues, relics
    13) The Papacy & Names of Blasphemy
    a. Pontifex Maximus, “Chief Bridge Builder”
    b. Holy Father
    c. Monseignor, “My Lord”
    d. Vicar of Christ, in effect, “Christ’s Replacement on Earth”

    Credit to Keith Piper for the above information

    • SEEDLINE

      All your smarmy sanctimonious family values were a lie

      You are a liar

    • TCB

      Bravisimo, Arturo.

      Now you are at least coming to the table with verifiable citations. Two things: One – please make an effort to distinguish between a person disagreeing with you and a person attacking you. Two: It is never a good idea to let a single man make your entire argument for you, as you have in this case with Mr. Piper.

      Here we have:

      “After all the Apostles are dead…”

      According to the Scriptures, all the apostles are not dead. The Apostle John was told to abide until Jesus returns (John 21:22). Jesus has not returned yet. Thus, John has not yet died.

      “…the Protestants now believe what the Catholics added to scripture.”

      Arthur, you yourself have already noted that the Protestants REMOVED what the Catholics added to Scripture – i.e. the apocrypha. Anything else you have in mind is still wanting of supporting evidence of some nature. Your mere personal assertions in this matter are utterly without value, as are the mere (unsupported) assertions of all of us. Won’t you come to appreciate the truth of this?

      “…the Protestants are unaware of what was deleted from their Bible (Jesus being married and having a child).”

      You are nothing if not tenacious. Would that you learn to stop demanding that your opinions on this matter be heard. Opinions here are worthless things at best – dangerous things at worst.

      Let’s hope you brought something of value here:

      “DOCTRINAL AND PRACTICAL ABUSES OF ROMAN CATHOLICISM SCRUTINIZED”

      And let us maintain from the outset that the Catholic Church DID NOT EXIST until well into the fourth century. There were no popes and there was no magisterium until almost the fifth century. The Catholic Church lies about the succession of early popes; a fact we learn by examining non-Catholic streams of information from the historical record.

      You note (or Mr. Piper does) that the Scriptures are replete with warnings against incorporating the traditions of man into the doctrines of Scripture. The warnings are of course all valid.

      “Another Gospel: Salvation by Grace Plus Works and Sacramental Salvation…”

      Salvation is through faith in Christ alone. Period. The Scriptures make that perfectly clear and nothing has been changed. It doesn’t matter what Rome says.

      You quote:

      “So say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED.” (Galatians 1:9)”

      This verse more than almost any other, should cause you sleepless nights.

      “Confession to man and not to God…”

      Nothing about this has been changed in Scripture.

      “Mandatory celibacy…”

      …is a Roman Catholic tradition which has no bearing on Scripture.

      “Baptism of infants by sprinkling for salvation…”

      …is an innovation of Rome and has no bearing on Scripture.

      “Transubstantiation … The Mass … Mediators other than Christ … Mary worship … Purgatory … Selling of Indulgences … Idolatrous images … Peter as the Rock of Matt. 16 rather than Jesus … Names of Blasphemy …”

      Are you being serious with us, Arthur? Do you really have it in your mind that ANY of the men with whom you regularly converse here are Roman Catholics (I will not speak for Damien. To this day I still do not know what she is) or that we are somehow responsible for or beholden to the false doctrines that issue forth from Rome? Why then have you rolled out this litany of objections to Roman Catholicism? Roman Catholicism is NOT legitimate Christianity – and it never has been. ALL of the modifications to Scripture listed here are perpetrated by a false institution which only pretends rightful affiliation with the Word of God. Nothing you have listed here has anything to do with a change in Scripture. Rome didn’t change Scripture – a point which is easily proven by the FACT that Scripture plainly rejects all of the Roman innovations listed by your source or by any other. Therefore, your source does nothing whatsoever to support your erroneous claims that the Scriptures have been irreparably altered.

      • TCB

        Edit to clarify…

        I wrote:

        “Rome didn’t change Scripture…”

        (Except for a relatively few examples like Genesis 3:15 and others where the Latin Vulgate differs from the other Manuscript traditions.)

  • Later on, Christianity patterned their priesthood after the religions that promote celibacy in the priesthood.

    Other religions celebrated at their Temple’s where they had temple prostitutes. I assure you; they “Really” enjoyed their worship services, and no one fell asleep in that time frame.

    The Temple congregations who had 21-year-old temple prostitutes had a “Larger” congregation than those with the 65-year-old temple prostitutes L.O.L.

    Jesus is like us in every way (except without a sin nature). Jesus can get married, (just like the Apostles had the right to get married). Jesus had a wife, sexual pleasure and a child; for his marriage bed is undefiled. Plus, Jesus is 100 % human like us, and Jesus can do anything that is legal for another man can do in the area of choosing a wife.

    • TCB

      “Later on, Christianity patterned their priesthood after the religions that promote celibacy in the priesthood.”

      You mean Roman Catholicism did that. Roman Catholicism is NOT Christianity.

      “Other religions celebrated at their Temple’s where they had temple prostitutes. I assure you; they “Really” enjoyed their worship services, and no one fell asleep in that time frame.”

      Immaterial as it has no bearing whatsoever on the Word and whether any of it has been changed. What the pagans do is of no consequence to what is written – and the Catholics are pagan dying sun god worshippers.

      “Jesus is like us in every way (except without a sin nature).”

      Vain repetition.

      “Jesus can get married…”

      And indeed HE WILL. Read Scripture.

      “Jesus had a wife…”

      He did before He was Jesus. He was married to ISRAEL. But He divorced her for infidelity to Him. And then He died, thus vacating the marriage covenant according to the Law of God. But He will RETAKE HIS WIFE once she has been purified.

      NOTE: THE BRIDE OF CHRIST is NOT the Body of Christ. The Bride is taken OUT of the Body, just as Eve was taken OUT of Adam. You maintained elsewhere that many men are particularly uncomfortable with the notion of being betrothed to Christ. They are so with good reason. The Bride is a particular species which has yet to be drawn forth from the Body.

      “Jesus is 100 % human like us…”

      The gospel according to Arthur.

      “…Jesus can do anything that is legal for another man can do in the area of choosing a wife.”

      Absolutely TRUE according to the Law of God. But Jesus has YET to take His Bride – a point about which Scripture is ANYTHING but silent. The evidence of this is written all throughout both Testaments, such that if anyone who meant to do damage to the Word by changing it (which can ONLY BE someone who does not understand the Word) ever tried to eliminate ALL of the evidence proving this point, he would miss a great deal of it because there is so much of it to consider, much of it being obscured from the casual or careless or novice reader of the Word.

  • There are many books for those looking for self instruction, the bible is just one of them. Just the Christians have screwed up, they say Jesus came, was, will be, past and future tense. He says ” I AM ” the way the life and the truth.

    ” I AM ” the key

    Read and Enjoy

  • God is a spirit being only. So His relationship with Israel as a wife is not “Literal”. In human relationships there is “Only” one male with (or for) each female

    “In the first metaphor, God is a faithful husband, and in the second, a loving and long-suffering parent. Israel is faithless in carrying out her responsibilities in both cases.

    “God bluntly calls her actions adultery, harlotry, or whoredom because she did not fulfill the duties she had promised in a contract, a covenant. In more intimate terms, this contract is a marriage.”

    God’s commitment and dealing with Israel has nothing to do with stopping a “Human” Jesus from getting married to another human person “His wife”. STOP DEIFYING THE BODY OF JESUS and let him be human like us.

    There is “One” God Creator and He has no body; but He can occupy a Temple. The “Only human Temple” building that talked to us 2,000 years ago.

    • TCB

      “God is a spirit being only.”

      You and I have no idea what is meant by ‘GOD IS A SPIRIT’ because we do not know the limitations of ‘SPIRIT’ and we’re fooling ourselves if we pretend otherwise.

      Plus which, your use of the word ‘only’ is yet another instance of YOU attempting to impart limitations to God and what He can do. You do that, Arthur. And then you accuse others of doing the same thing, which none of us have done at any time in our various and ongoing conversation with you.

      “His relationship with Israel as a wife is not “Literal”.”

      The gospel according to Arthur. Please, by all means, tell me on what do you base this assertion of yours? (I base my own on a simple reading of the Word, which you habitually and steadfastly advocate against.)

      “In human relationships there is “Only” one male with (or for) each female…”

      And your point would be, what, exactly?

      Quoting you:

      “In the first metaphor, God is a faithful husband, and in the second, a loving and long-suffering parent. Israel is faithless in carrying out her responsibilities in both cases.”

      God is both a faithful Husband and a long-suffering Parent. Israel (us, Arthur) is indeed a faithless covenant-breaker.

      “God bluntly calls her actions adultery, harlotry, or whoredom because she did not fulfill the duties she had promised in a contract, a covenant.”

      STOP RIGHT THERE. ISRAEL did not perform the duties she swore to (upholding The Law) at the foot of The Mountain. (And the people shall say ‘AMEN’) After which, again, they (we) had the consequences of covenant breaking reiterated to them (us) as they (we) passed between Mounts Gerezim (the blessings) and Ebal (the curses).

      “In more intimate terms, this contract is a marriage.”

      That’s what covenants are really all about.

      “God’s commitment and dealing with Israel has nothing to do with stopping a “Human” Jesus from getting married to another human person…”

      This highlights your persistent and abject failure to rightly comprehend what is written. You will NEVER be able to rightly comprehend what is written until you first come to RESPECT and ACCEPT what is written (Jesus Himself had the HIGHEST view of Scripture; you don’t) – and you will only be able to do that if you first TEST what is written accordingly (as He has instructed us to). LEAVE YOUR OPINIONS AT THE DOOR. Take NOTHING with you on your journey. SEEK and you shall find. KNOCK and it will be opened to you. (I’m not yelling at you. I’m imploring you.)

      Arthur, whatever you take with you on this journey (read preconceived notions or clinging to idolatry of any kind) will skew your trajectory. God tells us how to rightly do this. Man can NEVER tell us how to rightly do this… and we can NEVER tell ourselves how to rightly do this because we are men.

      “STOP DEIFYING THE BODY OF JESUS”

      Stop artificially attempting to separate Jesus from His Body. All you will ever meet in so doing is failure. You speak amiss because you think amiss. You think amiss because you DO NOT believe.

      “…let him be human like us.”

      He is the Son of Man. He is not now, nor has He ever been… human.

      “There is “One” God Creator and He has no body…”

      You preach contrary to the Word. You are the bearer of ANOTHER GOSPEL. (See Galatians 1:9 and ask yourself – WHAT is another Gospel if not what you yourself teach?)

      “…but He can occupy a Temple.”

      And so He does.

      “The “Only human Temple” building that talked to us 2,000 years ago.”

      Your doctrine is a lacuna-laden path. There is no light in what you teach friend, because you teach against what is written. You teach contrary to the Word and you have YET to tell any of us why.

      • TCB said, “He is the Son of Man.

        I would be more precise if TCB had of said “He (Jesus) is the Son of (a) Man (Joseph)”. God can’t be the son of a man (because God predates creation).

        TCB said, “He is not now, nor has He ever been … human”.
        Are you saying “He” Jesus or “He” God is not now, nor has He (Jesus or God) ever been …. Human”?

        We know that Jesus is flesh and blood because Joseph and Mary have the responsibility as parents to give their child Jesus conception, birth and human life (just like the rest of all humans.

        TCB, do you believe it would be a sin for Jesus to get married?

        The Jews will say, “Here O Israel, the Lord our God is “One” Lord”
        THERE IS ONLY “ONE” GOD !!! (Jesus is a created suffering servant (for the body of Jesus is created, but God isn’t created).

        • TCB

          “TCB said, “He is the Son of Man.”…”

          In the Greek New Testament, Jesus referred to HIMSELF as The Son of Man…

          …wait for it…

          83 times.

          Yet Arthur, reading from some other source, maintains:

          “[It] would be more precise if TCB had of said “He (Jesus) is the Son of (a) Man (Joseph)”.”

          Once again Arthur, we see there are no limitations to your contradiction of what IS written and your insistence that you know better.

          “…God can’t be the son of a man (because God predates creation).”

          God can enter into His own creation by whichever means suit His purposes, in whichever guise suits His purposes, because God’s is sovereign over ALL (Genesis 3:8; Genesis 18:16-33; John 1:14… etc. etc. etc…)

          “TCB said, “He is not now, nor has He ever been … human”.”

          To which Arthur asked:

          “Are you saying “He” Jesus or “He” God is not now, nor has He (Jesus or God) ever been …. Human”?”

          Why, with all the answers I have given you, do you feel the need to ask me that question?

          “We know that Jesus is flesh and blood…”

          Jesus WAS flesh and blood. Now He is not. (Luke 24:39)

          “…because Joseph and Mary have the responsibility as parents to give their child Jesus conception…”

          Citation needed. Citation needed. Citation needed.

          You have YET to tell us why you believe as you do. Have you read too much Dan Brown? Watched too much Zeitgeist? Imbibed the ruse of Baigent, Lincoln and Leigh? WHY, Arthur? Why do you believe as you do? Have a vision? A dream? A premonition? What? On what do you base your rejection of Scripture?

          “TCB, do you believe it would be a sin for Jesus to get married?”

          Asked and answered. Jesus WILL INDEED MARRY.

          “Jesus is a created suffering servant…”

          Chapter and verse, please.

          Arthur,

          There are no limits to the questions you can put to me and I will consent to answer. Consider, if you will, why it is you have NO ANSWERS for the questions I put to you.

      • It is true that God in spirit can visit a million individuals in 1 million different cities around the world and do it all at the same time.

        But Jesus can’t be at the Temple worshiping God and be home (with Joseph, Mary and his 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters) all at the same time. Human flesh isn’t deity but earthy and created.

        Physical beings have limitations, and, “NO” I am not limiting God, but a human Jesus isn’t God (only a Temple that God dwells inside of. There are about 2 billion professing Christians on planet earth. There are a few more Catholics than Protestants; but they pretty much have the same belief that Jesus wouldn’t, shouldn’t or couldn’t get married (and be like us in his humanity).

        My faith isn’t shattered or shaken I Jesus was married and had a child. For it isn’t a sin for any man to get married (for Jesus he is a sexual being. When Mary is changing the diapers of Jesus; I assure you that the diaper aren’t full of chocolate pudding and lemon juice L.O.L.

        This is a “Real” human baby who will grow up to be a “Real” human man with the same human desires to love a woman in an “Intimate” way (stop making Jesus an “Eunuch” (an asexual being) or a man with erectile dysfunction.

        • STOP DEIFYING THE BODY OF JESUS and let him be human like us.

          ==============

          You define blasphemy as believing that Jesus wouldn’t have behaved exactly as some 21st century gaytheist theologian trying to hold on to his phony baloney position has been told he would behave.

        • TCB

          “But Jesus can’t be at the Temple worshiping God and be home (with Joseph, Mary and his 4 brothers and at least 2 sisters) all at the same time.”

          The Word of God is God (John 1:1) Jesus is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:14). When He walked in the land, He could be one place while The Word was everywhere. All things consist in Him. All things hold together in Him. It does seem from Scripture that Jesus the man never appeared in two places at the same time while here for His ministry. But that doesn’t do a thing to further your argument.

          “Human flesh isn’t deity but earthy and created.”

          You’re the one with the hang-up about us worshipping His flesh. No one here has done anything of the kind. You keep attempting to separate Him from His Body. You can’t do that. His Body died and was raised on the third day. He ascended bodily to Heaven where He is now.

          “…a human Jesus isn’t God…”

          He was made for a time a little lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5 and Hebrews 2:7). That verse agrees with this verse, which I would love to see you explain:

          2 Corinthians 8:9

          For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you by His poverty might become rich.

          How do you explain away a verse like that and insist that He had no preexistence? How, Arthur? You must ignore the verse. You must reject the verse. You must insist that the verse was changed, absent a single shred of corroborating evidence of any kind. I will never follow you there.

          “…they pretty much have the same belief that Jesus wouldn’t, shouldn’t or couldn’t get married (and be like us in his humanity).”

          That’s what the Word of God teaches. He takes His Bride later.

          “My faith isn’t shattered or shaken I Jesus was married and had a child.”

          Then your faith is of no use to you. Only a faith which accords with what is written in the Word of God is a saving faith:

          2 Timothy 3:15

          …and how from childhood you have known the Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

          If you have faith in a lie, what good is your faith?

          You deny what is written in favor of what makes sense to you. You’ve been warned in many places by the Word of God not to do that.

          “For it isn’t a sin for any man to get married…”

          You ignore everything said to you by anyone.

          “Jesus he is a sexual being.”

          The gospel according to Arthur.

          And another reference to feces and urine? Really, Arthur? You have a problem.

          “…stop making Jesus an “Eunuch”…”

          And YOU stop telling me to DENY what is written and listen to YOU. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PENALTY FOR DOING THAT IS? (Read all about it in The Law.) I will NEVER believe you over the Word of God just because you tell me to and you KEEP telling me to. NEVER. Only a fool would believe you for your insistence and your pestering.

          It’s bad enough that you believe the way you do. But you compound your troubles when you presume to influence the thinking of other people to agree with your anti-scriptural deformities.

          Nothing more to you can be said than has already been said.

          You have no reason to believe as you do, other than your own vain imagination.

          You have chosen to believe a lie instead of God.

          You live with your decision.

          • “I live with my decision” to believe that Godly Christian Jewish woman who first told me “No virgin birth of Jesus !!! TCB believes everything the Catholics added to the Bible.

            You keep ignoring the “Fact” that Christianity, pagan religions and Greek Mythology “All have” the same core message, values and belief systems.

            The God that TCB believes in isn’t powerful enough to separate us from our sins (your God has to cast us into hell, even though we are “All” made in the image of God (and that part of our being doesn’t deserve to be cast into hell (only our sins need to be cast into hell.

            TCB, keep your pagan worship theology, for you will be thinking differently in God’s new kingdom on this earth L.O.L.).

            My God doesn’t need to “Throw the baby out with the bath water”. Our God allowed teachings to be added to Scripture (simply because we are in a sinful world “Temporally” controlled and ruled by Satan).

            And therefore, we need to be spiritually aware of what the Catholics added to our Bible and keen to what was probably deleted from the Bible; the marriage of Jesus to Mary Magdalene and any child or children born to “This normal human man” JESUS.

          • TCB

            Some woman tells you ‘no virgin birth’ so that’s what you believe.

            Did you even bother to QUESTION her or to put her motives to the test?

            Of course not. She was ‘godly’.

            Are you really so careless as to grab ahold of someone’s opinion instead of the Word? You are. So why then continue to have ANYTHING to do with Scriptures at all, considering your astonishingly low opinion of them – such that the word of a single woman alive today could sway you from belief in the Word of God. Folly.

            (That really is about the most shameful excuse for denying the Bible I’ve ever heard, Arthur. Other men at least make a claim to years of research. Still others claim divine personal revelation. But you? Some woman told you so. That’s really what you plan to stand before Him with in the day of your judgment? Very well.)

            “You keep ignoring the “Fact” that Christianity, pagan religions and Greek Mythology “All have” the same core message, values and belief systems.”

            No. I keep denying your lie. I keep denying that your ‘fact’ is a fact at all. You have not even lifted a FINGER to argue otherwise. Your opinion on the matter is (as it should be) rejected as meaningless. Is this concept really beyond your ability to comprehend? Or are you just feigning stubborn ignorance because that’s the only move left for you.

            “The God that TCB believes in isn’t powerful enough to separate us from our sins…”

            The God of TCB can do anything at any time He pleases. He could have formed us all perfect beings. He did not. He has the sovereign authority to do whatever seems good to Him according to His will. Lucky for us, He shares many of His reasons with us. Yours is the feeble and powerless god, Arthur. Yours is the god that doesn’t punish. Yours is the god animated by the nonexistent fantasy of unconditional love.

            Re hell: Keep telling yourself you know better than God. Maybe you’ll get Him to believe you.

            “Our God allowed teachings to be added to Scripture (simply because we are in a sinful world “Temporally” controlled and ruled by Satan).”

            Your god. Your vision. Your scriptures (which for you are no scriptures at all). You have only yourself to blame.

            “…we need to be spiritually aware of what the Catholics added to our Bible…”

            A point you will never be able to prove, so just keep telling yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to keep denying God. For you, vain repetition is all that matters.

            Your message and your stubborn mindset are not going to be received here. Perhaps you should take your show on the road and try your luck someplace else. Yours is another gospel and the Apostle Paul has, long before you were even a thought in your parent’s minds, spoken authoritatively on your other gospel. He has called you ANATHEMA.

            I stand with Paul.

          • Trafford

            And therefore, we need to be spiritually aware of what the Catholics added to our Bible and keen to what was probably deleted from the Bible; the marriage of Jesus to Mary Magdalene and any child or children born to “This normal human man” JESUS.

            ===========

            HOW would Jesus being married or having children stop Him being divine? A pagan Jesus could have had children with Mary Magdalen just as Zeus supposedly had children. His having children would HARDLY stop Him being divine to the pagan minded people you claim made up lies about his not being recorded as being married and having children.

            The fact is your post-Christian ‘Jesus as God out, (real) Jews as Gods in’ logic demands this pagan possibility if your Zeus descended (real) volk seedline hope is to be achieved (you ArthurTrafford.com as God).

            In pursuit of this end you do not care about the family values of Jesus’ ‘made up’ female ancestors rapists anymore than you care about Joseph (your rapist) impregnating and sowing his sacred (real Jew) man seed in a little girl rather than being her guardian and a a saint.

            It’s all just a cover for your seedline inadequacies.

            Everything else gets kicked into your debased gutter.

  • Damn El

    There is only One Creator God and that person is Deity.

    “Divine” is an adjective that means or, from, or like God.

    When Jesus is talking, God is using a human mouth to communicate to us from God Himself. There are not 3 God’s in Christianity. When Jesus said, “Before Abraham was I AM”; God is speaking about Himself, for the body of Jesus is created from the human race.

    A Temple is not God or Deity, and God is a Spirit being but we can’t see Him. If God were to talk to us audibly, we would get scared because we would prefer to communicate with a human.

    Unlike Solomon’s Temple, this Temple of flesh that housed God 2,000 years ago is the body of Jesus (that is just like ours and not different in any way, other than without a sin nature). God has the power to keep Jesus sinless or perfect without human intervention.

    We can worship before this human Temple of Jesus, because it doesn’t have a human created spirit inside of it (only God, talking to us).

    In reading the Christian Bible I have never read anything about Joseph raping anyone. Jesus isn’t a pagan gentile, but is a Jewish young man who speaks for God.

    • Trafford

      Christiians preceded young Jewish and Mormon and moron men so your opinion on what Jesus was is a pathetic real seedline I AM GOD joke.

      Read the Bible GayTheist

      It is VERY clear about ‘Young Jewish men’.

      • …maiden…Hate to tell you this bud, but you’ve not made any sense in a couple of months.

        • Arent you dead yet?

          • …Nope…just another thing I’m just not very good at!

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