The Sodomy Agenda: War On The Holy Bible
Pastor Joseph Chambers
The sodomy and transgender struggle has become a
“War Against God and the Holy Bible.”
The Bible is a discriminating book, probably the most balanced discrimination in print. It does not even protect its celebrated prophets from plain language that shows their horrible failures. The Church has always had to deal with devastating sins right in its own pulpits and among its adherents. But the language is clear, men and women reap what they sow and evil cannot be celebrated or tolerated without consequences.
Reverend Jonathan Edwards (1705-1758) preached the most celebrated sermon in American history. The title was, “Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God” His language was full of discrimination against sin. It was repent and go to Heaven or keep on sinning and judgment was certain. The righteousness of the Bible was clearly shown in contrast with the sins that were destroying our young nation. His sermon was credited with turning America back to God and with saving the nation from God’s impending wrath. There was no coddling of sins within the church or outside the church. His God was angry with our nation’s sins and the sins of its citizens. A revival of holiness was the end result. I will share a few of his quotes in this article.
Sodomy is clearly labeled in our Bible as the end result of rebellion against God. The God of the Bible calls sodomy “an abomination.” This was the abomination that justified our God destroying the nations and giving their land to Israel. The Holy Spirit spoke these words, “And Judah did evil in the sight of the Lord, and they provoked Him to jealousy with their sins which they had committed, above all that their fathers had done. For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree. And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel.” (I Kings 14:22-24) That is clear language, and it clearly discriminates against sodomy.
Transgender is the mutation of sodomy. Sin always follows a downward spiral. Sodomy is so devastating when put in control of someone’s life that they must descend deeper and deeper to get the same gratification in the flesh. The reason sodomites or transgender sodomites frequently commit suicide is their own fragile hold on the meaning in their lives God intended. To blame the people who resist this lifestyle is unfair and ridiculous.
While the above scripture is in the First Testament, the New Testament is even more discriminatory against sodomy. Listen to the following verses that cannot be denied. “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.” (Romans 1:24-28)
Please note several phrases that cannot be called anything but discrimination against sodomy.
• God gave them up to uncleanness
• dishonor their own bodies between themselves
• gave them up unto vile affections
• women did change the natural use
• burned in their lust one towards another
• men with men working that which is unseemly
• receiving in themselves the recompence of their error
• became vain in their imagination
• their foolish heart was darkened
This battle for celebration of sodomy and its many different immoral actions and destructive powers cannot be called anything but an attack on Biblical Christianity. The governmental powers behind this battle are controlled by those who hate American traditions. If they win, America will be destroyed. It isn’t a matter of if, but how soon. No culture has ever survived that went down the slippery slope of sodomy.
I must state several things that the ordinance as presented to the city council would have accomplished for the Gay Rights Agenda:
1. The Bible would have become an outlawed book in Charlotte, NC.
2. No church could legally preach against the sin of sodomy.
3. No church could legally sell or even give away a Bible.
4. Every church restroom would be opened to transgender persons.
5. Elderly ladies and gentlemen, our precious church members, would be too embarrassed to use the restrooms.
Jonathan Edwards’ sermon is called the greatest sermon in American history. Let me list six direct quotes from his words:
1. “There is no Want of Power in God to cast wicked Men into Hell at any moment. Mens Hands can’t be strong when God rises up: The strongest have no power to resist him, nor can any deliver out of his Hands.”
2. “Yea, on the contrary, Justice calls aloud for an infinite Punishment of their Sins. Divine Justice says of the Tree that brings forth such Grapes of Sodom, Cut it down, why cumbreth it the Ground…”
3. “They are already under a Sentence of Condemnation to Hell. They don’t only justly deserve to be cast down thither; but the Sentence of the Law of God, that eternal and immutable Rule of Righteousness that God has fixed between him and Mankind, is gone out against them, and stands against them; so that they are bound over already to Hell.”
4. “The Wrath of God burns against them, their Damnation don’t slumber, the Pit is prepared, the Fire is made ready, the Furnace is now hot, ready to receive them, the Flames do now rage and glow.”
5. “The Devil stands ready to fall upon them and seize them as his own, at what Moment God shall permit him.”
6. “The Expression that I have chosen for my Text, Their Foot shall slide in due Time; seems to imply the following Things, relating to the Punishment and Destruction that these wicked Israelites were exposed to.”
America is being weighed in the balance. Not one person within the community of those that justify sodomy, that will repent and turn from this abomination, but they will be forgiven and changed. God did not create one person that does not have the freewill to choose their lifestyle. It is blasphemous to accuse God of being a “respecter of persons.” “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him.” (Acts 10: 34-35)
As Reverend Jonathan Edwards so wonderfully declared, “Our God gave His Son to cleanse sinners.” All of us were born in sin and that bent to sin will carry many on the downward spiral. But Grace is in Christ and He forgives all that call upon Him and turn from the wicked one.
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Thank you for posting this article! It would take an absolute miracle at this point to save America or the West in general, because we are too far gone down the road of wickedness and Science Religion paganism. The Second Coming of Jesus Christ will be a cleansing fire to sweep away the Antichrist and his New World Order, but until then Christians will be increasingly persecuted. The best we can do is to be laborers in the harvest winning souls by spreading the truth of God’s only Son, Jesus Christ, who gave His life on the cross, was buried three days and then resurrected. We are all sinners deserving of Hell, but faith in Jesus gives eternal life in Heaven.
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1
You sound worried, John.
And you should be.
But, it is NOT the all male wrote Book of Babble (Love your christo-WAR MONGERING-Criminal terminology “War on the Bible” reference) we are coming after, John.
It is YOU, the judeo-christo-CREEP that thinks, under the guise of ‘religion” you and YOUR foul, vile, violent CREED are going to continue to physically, verbally, and economically attack and marginalize gays of either gender!
You know, John, it is OUR strategy to do EXACTLY (physically, verbally, and economically attack and marginalize white-skinned judeo-christo-CREEPS of either gender ) that to YOU christo-CREEPS that Looooovveeeeeee isra-HELL here in ameriiiSCUM!!!
You know you are in BIG TROBLE, John, when “straight guys”, like me, will GLADLY help Homosexuals to TOPPLE judeo-christo-CREEPS from the ranks of socially “acceptable” here, in the USA!!!
We WILL get to your intuitional Ranks, john, when WE END the 501 (c) 3 and 501 (c) 4 “non-profit” Tax exempt Status, as awarded by the Federal government you judeo-christo-CREEPS now despise!!!
Also, all that “Gun” Registration stuff is clearly AIMED AT YOU MILITANT, TERRORIST LIKE judeo-christo-CREEPS, John Ale!!!!
HEY, how do you like where this is going, john??
judeo-christo-CREEPS become the “Hunted”, here in the united Fraudulent Fascist states of TORTURE and MILITARY TERROR that judeo-christo-CREEPS like John Ale, will, in the next breathe, “take credit’ for fashioning!!
Be concerned though, John, because the path that gays walked in this country 40 years ago, is the Path YOU are being marginalized to RIGHT NOW!
Don’t believe me?
Well, gay people walk all over America now ON THE STREETS looking and acting gay, in ways of walk and speech, that would have had them viciously physically assaulted and BEATEN OR KILLED by “good christians’ , like YOU am123!!!
And, now, go walk out into the streets of ANY big city and preach your christo-CRAP, and I give you about 10 minutes before YOU get your arse beat to a pulp!!!!
WOW, funny how that “Role” has turned right around 180 degrees, eh, John Ale, you free kin white-skinned male middle-aged dinosaur!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
There is NO way out for you, christo-CREEPS!
YOU ARE A VIOLENT RELIGION that must be OUTLAWED!
And, John Ale, sent to the FEMA Camp for some re-education!
It is for your own good, John Ale, and it will provide tens of thousands of NEW JOBS here in Amerika, in locking you up!
Also, think of the new class of Bounty Hunter, sent out to hunt nothing BUT crazy arsed, insane judeo-christo-CREEPS, The Racist, Sexist, sexually perverted TERRORIST “religion” that MUST be eliminated……………………………………. FOR GOOD!!!!!!!1
Oh, what a wonderful world it will be John Ale, when you and your vile, foul creed are no longer around in that world!!!
NOT long now!!!!
Hmm, no mention of Islam which you are actually describing but put it on Christians. You are not one of those god, er gay-hating Moslems that practice man/boy love and pedophile relations are you?
Would you just listen to the big bad Heretic and what all he’s gonna do. Chris-Lord, and his ilk, have been trying to expunge the Faith for nigh on 6,000 years. Yet The Word will not be silenced. Pfft; how do you like them apples?
He’s too stupid to realize that Religion and Faith are not the same thing. As a man of faith i absolutely abhor what has been done in the name of God by people who only ever wanted riches, power and glory. From the Jews, who are not, to the Catholic Fathers and on through the Ottoman they are easily identified, as it is written.
Good arguments am123, very thoroughly put, and there’s nothing wrong with your math.
Thanks Mayhem. It’s amazing how some people want the confirmation of a scientific study before they will admit the blatantly obvious.
You exhibit many characteristics of diabolical possession along with a lack of scholarship. I suspect these two deficits will cost you your soul. The Bolsheviks murdered millions of Christians but then died themselves. So what’s the gain? There is none.
However on the spiritual side, salvation becomes paramount. Martyrs tend to be saved whereas deranged murdering Bolsheviks are most probably damned.
Do you know what follows a trillion centuries in hell? Another trillion centuries.
HEY Louis,
GET A ETERNAL MEMORY, you pathetic piece of christ-OID human flotsam (who wants to lick the balls of the white-skinned mangod for ALL of eternity)!!!!!!!
Are you ready to LICK the balls ON COMMAND of “your” IMAGE of a white-skinned mangod FOR ALL OF ETERNITY????
Oh, and Louis, do you think your tongue will be tired after a trillion centuries to the tenth power of LICKING?
Or, will you still be licking away……………………….. for jesus, of course!!!!!!!
YOU brain-washed Putz!
Your god is not who you think he is.
That is why I am not a godless liberal!
“Presbyterian Church (USA) changes its constitution to include gay marriage”
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/news/presbyterian-church-usa-changes-its-constitution-to-include-gay-marriage/#.VQnW4Y69FHA
Hey, am123, the KING of “Rationalization” to support the IMAGE and FABLE of the “white-skinned mangod” (IMAGE looks like am123’s avatar……….christo-CREEPS hang that picture on a wall, look at it, and worship it, just like the way am123 wants you to ‘worship’ his word here on BIN).
These violent christo-LUNATICS take all of “their” perceived “knowledge’ from the ALL MALE WROTE “Book of Babbling Insanities”, ANY VERSION!!!!!!!!!!
Whether judeo (jews) – christo – (christians) or muscle – (muslims) MALE LED MONSTER god HUMAN SCUM ALL, any “Holy Book”, ANY version, ALL ARE WRITTEN BY MEN (males) and ALL AGREE, “god’ is a male human being, and the persona of the “spirit” of the “guy in the sky” IS a Human being, that is of the MALE gender!
ALWAYS!
After that, THEY AGREE ON NOTHING ELSE!
NOT EVEN AMONG THEIR OWN “internal” different “flavors” of judeo (jews) – christo – (christians) or muscle – (muslims) SCUMDUMB!!!!!!
JUST NOT Natural AT ALL, eh, am123????????
A male “Created” PERVERTED CREED from the VERY START (which is the key to your vile all male creed’s dominance for so long……………….. get control of the “education”, really “indoctrination”, of the CHILDREN as EARLY IN LIFE as one can….. like infants used in the “Baptism”, ritual, which included as normal behavior, the physical mutilation of the MALE genitalia) it is THE FIRST medieval SYSTEM of “Life Long” Census taking, tracking, and Control by the “Central, ALL MALE Power structure of your “Local” MONSTER god representatives!!!!!!!!!!
Transferring the general ‘belief’ that this type of “Always Watching Over You” action in “Life” is “normal” means the change over to the more technologically advance N.W.O. format WILL BE EASY for most human psyches to accept as “Needed” and “OK for me”, CAUSE “JESUS TOLD ME SO”!!!!!
Sounding “Natural” yet, am123??????
Using “your” rationalized” christo-POLLUTED Logic Looped ALL MALE created christo-CREEP bull CRAP, let us look at the circumstances of the LIFE of “your” white-skinned mangod FABLE!
Let’s see, “Virgin” Birth (right off the bat, the male penis becomes “unholy” and to “earthly” to be included in the TALL TALE of Woe to all…..except the “believing” christo-CREEP)!
The poor, infant VICTIM is subjected to the mangod “Religious Theory” that every one is SCREWED on this planet from the get-go because “you are BORN with sin”!!!!
What an up lifting “spiritual” experience, am123, DAMNED for JUST BEING BORN here in THE HELL YOU three monolithic ALL MALE RUN world wide Criminal networks have CREATED for yourselves.
ALL MALES!
Whether they are members of judeo-christo or muscle SCUM DUMB, it is all male run!
You want to talk about “unnatural” am123, THE BRAIN-WASHED christo-CREEP???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Speaking of “Unnatural” let’s continue with the FABLE’S Tale of “Life on earth” for the white-skinned mangod!!!!
Let’s see.. the High Lights of a “god’s Life” on earth…………………………………
Disobeyed his parents, and put them in a bad position, (economically and physically) and with the local all male Power structure by going to the ‘Temple’ as a 13 year old (do you think the “adolescent” mangod had pubic hairs, am123……. any passages there you can ‘whip up?”), and vandalizing property, and generally causing a “Disturbance of the Peace” that should have earned the FABLED lad a good beating AND SOME JAIL TIME.
But, his, this “jesus” character’s “Committed Crimes” were NOT punished!!
The “Legend” was born!!!
WHAT A Miracle!
NEVER WORKS A PHYSICAL JOB FOR ONE DAY IN HIS LIFE.
ALWAYS MOOCHES FOR A LIFE TIME OFF OF OTHERS for the basics of life itself, (food, clothing, water, and drink) in exchange for ‘hanging out’ with him and watching his performance of ‘Pallor Tricks’, provided for their “entertainment”. Maybe that is what the FABLE offered to others as “value’ in his life on earth………………. HE WAS AN “entertainer”, a famous one of the time!
A MASTER illusionist!
Always just “hangs out’ with the boys!!!!!
Picks up “stray MALES’ along the way, that the “spiritual con-man” pulls away from existing FAMILY, friends and community to “follow him”.
This was a tremendous loss of essentially needed skill and labors to each of the communities of the 12 MALE apostles that wandered off after the “Piped Piper of Productive, in their prime MALES”, the FABLED MALE mangod “himself, just “asked them to””!
NEVER, EVER, EVER in his, the “jesus” mangod character’s WHOLE LIFE had ONE SEXUAL THOUGHT AT ALL!
Is this a Miracle, OR WHAT, am123?????
Sounding like a “Natural” life yet, am123??????
Let’s continue.
Just plain vanishes from the “face of the earth for about 15 years” , as far as the all male wrote “holy books”….. ALL VERSIONS, are concerned.
(SIDE NOTE: WOW, talk about “shifty” and “irresponsible”. NO CONCERN what so ever for the welfare of his mother or father. Just “vanish” for oh, HALF OF A LIFE TIME!)
Shows up again, unannounced, and (My favorite part of the TALL Tale) immediately heads off to the dessert for 40 days to “Sweat it all out” and purify the body with further fasting (including NO water consumption) after 15 WILD years of a hedonistic type of life style.
While hallucinating, the ach-enemy of god, another MALE character that personifies evil, the devil, satan, (whatever) pays our boy a visit while most venerable to his “suggestion”.
For some reason, our “devil boy” cannot physically harm nor attack the “mangod” character, jesus.
And, as we soon learn, that rule applies to the white-skinned mangod, jesus, while on earth, also.
They are on such friendly terms that PURE EVIL just sits his arse down right there, on a hill with a good view, next to our “white-skinned mangod, jesus”!
SITS DOWN NEXT TO HIM.
And, the “white-skinned mangod, jesus”, LETS HIM DO SO!!
Friend devil gives the “good” god guy a “Sales Pitch”.
Makes a LOT of promises, all delivered within the course of the white-skinned mangod, jesus’s lifetime.
And, the white-skin mangod sits on his arse AND listens.
To ALL of it!
Does nothing!
Runs his “jesus” mouth a little bit, rejects the devil’s sales pitch, and THEN, let’s PURE EVIL just walk away, to TORMENT ALL OF YOU for another day!!!!
WOW!
What a ‘powerful” god that really does “care’ about me, and “loves” me, eh, am123!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!
Are we sounding the LEAST BIT ‘natural’ yet, am123??????????????????????????
Eh?????????????????????????????
Anyway, continuing, the white-skinned mangod puts on his acts of illusion, entertains far and wide for a relatively short period of time (a few years), NEVER visits with his mother, EVER, and has his “Last Supper’ ON EARTH with all “THE GUYS”!!!!!!!!!!
HANGS OUT WITH ALL THE GUYS, am123, on “his’ LAST NIGHT ON EARTH (that this dude knows is his last night on earth).
And, the, being god and all, “Commits jesus-CIDE”, by being able to BLAME OTHERS for their physical actions that lead to his own PLANNED death.
Bloody, violent and very consistent in the then common judeo-christo practice of ‘slaughtering animas” as a “Blood sacrifice’ to the “MALE god’, OR “MALE gods”, depending upon the “Flavor’ of the then “Belief’, to bring about, or give thanks for such needed things as “good crops’”.
BUT, this “Blood Sacrifice” is SO MUCH MORE DRAMATIC, when the blood sacrifice is a MALE HUMAN one, instead of some barn yard animal, like a goat or a sheep.
And, then, the FINAL CRUEL ACT of this FABLE!
The beloved white-skin mangod, heals himself from mortal wounds, comes back to “life’ in the ‘body” he occupied before the untimely (HAHAHA) VIOLENT DEATH it suffered through…”willingly”, walks around for a few days showing his all male buddies still around, and a few female “groupies” of the time, that he IS ALIVE, tells NO ONE how he did this, so that they too, could avoid the life of PURE PAIN AND MISERY while in the body, and then this HERO of A ‘white-skinned mangod’, LEAVES!
RUNS AWAY……………………………. LIKE HE DID FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE!!!
Fades off into the heavens, like the MASTER illusionist he was!!!!!!!
Does this SOUND NATURAL TO YOU, am123????????
Is that the KIND OF ‘god’, or authority figure that I am going to expose my children to??????
ANSWER: NO, NOT EVER, NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!
PERIOD!
When they are full grown adults, only then, will they be exposed to the Foul brain-washing of christianity.
I see you Fundies AS ‘child molesters’, am123.
Psychological methodology practicing “child mental molesters”!
THE MAKERS of pedophiles, am123, right through child hood, are christo-CREEP ALL MALE “Clergy” and educators!
Your kind’s excuse to this point of time to “Gaining Access” to the children around you in your area.
AND, ALWAYS keeping them totally ignorant about ‘human sexuality”!
ALWAYS!
NEVER INCLUDED in the child’s scholarly “curriculum!
Great way to cultivate ‘deviant’ sexual behavior when the VICTIM does not even know that the sexual acts perpetrated on him or her IS deviant!!!!!
BY ALL MALES. That is who runs these 3 “religions’, am123!!!!!!!
That “cares” and “loves” me!
Sounding natural yet, am123???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
am123, TAKE NOTICE:
The time to Honor you 3 monolithic zionist judeo-christo-muscle SCUMDUMB white-skinned led all male THUG-HOARDING-KILLER CULTISTS WILL SOON BE OVER, WORLD WIDE!!!!!!!!
Before WE are through with you, am123, AND YOUR foul CREED, and without EVER making physical contact with ANY you, We HERETICS are going to make you wish that you were JUST “dealing with demons”!!!!!!!
Fair warning am123, WE ask NO QUARTER from your kind, and WE will give NO quarter to your kind, at all, NO EXCEPTIONS!
I’ll give you A for effort for telling your version of the Gospel, but you sure are a male-ophobe aren’t you?
You just can’t deal with the fact that woman was created from man, for man, can you?
“Fair warning am123, WE ask NO QUARTER from your kind, and WE will give NO quarter to your kind, at all, NO EXCEPTIONS!”
Fair warning: when the army of the Most High rides, your weapons will be useless (see Joel 2:8).
am123,
“The time to Honor you 3 monolithic zionist judeo-christo-muscle SCUMDUMB white-skinned led all male THUG-HOARDING-KILLER CULTISTS WILL SOON BE OVER, WORLD WIDE!!!!!!!!”
Sounds like a female ISIS supporter.
Go get a job Am123. I’ve seen some trolls in my day, but you take the cake. Night and day, day and night, you’re on here spewing fake bearded man in the sky bible crap. Basement dweller.
@CrowPie,
Perhaps. I know the popular perception is this is a guy, but it does sound like a female, doesn’t it? And as far as being an ISIS supporter, before coming to that conclusion, I think we have to first interpret what “muscle SCUMDUMB” might mean.
@Real Deal,
Don’t you have anything better to do than to nip at my heels like a little Chihuahua? Why do you even read my posts anyways? I thought you had attention deficit disorder and can only comprehend 3 sentences at a time or something?
If you’re so into calling out trolls, why do you ignore your friend, the 800 pound gorilla troll right above us here?
What do you do on this site anyways, other than foment anti-Semitism?
Lord of flies I presume?
Oh, and the underlying theme of my evaluation of “Your” religion is “Your” white-skinned male mangod, am123, really acted homosexual all the way, as written in the Greatest FABLE Ever Invented!
Why, sure, am123.
I never make fun of people who are weak skilled, like you, with your ‘reading and comprehension” capabilities.
So, from paragraph #3, written for you, am123, to “understand” the terminology (cause as simple as it is to “figure out” for most, I knew you would NOT figure it out for yourself, you would have to be told), here is the answer to your question, am123, of “What is a muscle SCUMDUMB!!!!!!”
Whether judeo (jews) – christo – (christians) or muscle – (muslims) MALE LED MONSTER god HUMAN SCUM ALL, any “Holy Book”, ANY version, ALL ARE WRITTEN BY MEN (males) and ALL AGREE, “god’ is a male human being, and the persona of the “spirit” of the “guy in the sky” IS a Human being, that is of the MALE gender!
Hey, am123, I got a book for you to read!
Let me know what you think of it, after you are done reading.
“Dirty, Filthy, Christians”: Treatise On The Most Dangerous Death Cult In Human History
By David L. Booth
NOW, that ids MY kind of “bible”!!!!
The GREATEST Exposure EVER MADE!!!
Of the vile, wild, violent WHITE-SKINNED christo-CREEP!!!!!!!
What screws us up most in life is the picture in our head of how it is supposed to be.
“Hey, am123, I got a book for you to read!”
Here’s a book for you to read, the best selling book of all time:
Holy Bible.
His is why it is SO important for people to learn where their ” holy books ” come from. Doesn’t it stand to reason that if the authors are homophobes, your bible will be homophobic ? A person’s sexual orientation can never be a reason to invalidate their human rights. If we are going to survive as a species we need to wipe out all traces of predudice, this type of thinking has no place in civil society. Religion is welcome to stick around for as long as it can hang in there but it’s time for the good people of Christianity to step away from negative messages like this one spoken in the name of their religion. It’s time to embrace acceptance and leave ideas like this in the desert where they came from. Everybody thinks the dinosaurs went extinct, I say they are alive and well at your local church.
“His is why it is SO important for people to learn where their ” holy books ” come from. Doesn’t it stand to reason that if the authors are homophobes, your bible will be homophobic ?”
I know where my Holy Bible comes from and I know where my help comes from. And if agreeing with the God of the Bible, my Father who art in heaven, on the subject of homosexuality, makes me a homophobe, then by all means, call me a homophobe.
“The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
—Isaiah 40:8
“A person’s sexual orientation can never be a reason to invalidate their human rights.”
So you’re cool with pedophilia then?
So should we allow pedophiles to adopt and abuse children?
The Bible warns us about homosexuality for good reason. The gay population is much more prone to pedophilia than the population at large is. So to promote gay marriage is to promote pedophilia. One perversion feeds another.
“It’s time to embrace acceptance and leave ideas like this in the desert where they came from.”
Woe
unto those who call good evil and evil good. 
Our society calls evil (homosexuality) good, saying that it is natural and normal. And just like it is good to point out that murder is wrong or stealing is wrong for example, if anyone tries to point out that homosexuality is wrong, the promoters of perversion will label that person a “homophobe” or whatever, and so our society calls good evil.
When the ruling authorities in a society thumb their noses at the laws of the Most High God by calling evil (homosexuality) good, saying it is natural and normal by allowing gay marriage, then that society calls good evil. And so God withdraws His blessing and hedge of protection around that society and the chaos of judgment commences. That is, the proportion that a society goes against the will of God, that is the same proportion that God withdraws His hedge of protection and blessing from that society. The more a society as a whole turns its back on God, the more the presence of God withdraws. And the more the presence of God withdraws, the more room that gives to the Devil
to come in and do his thing. Consider in the natural world how a heavy police presence in a city or town keeps criminal activity at bay, but reduce or remove or the police presence and the chaos of crime kicks in. Likewise, in the spiritual world, because our society have been and are turning their backs on God, then the more the presence of God recedes and evil comes in like a flood and the Devil 
and his crew are given a freer reign on the spiritual turf. And since demons are attracted to evil human inclinations like flies are attracted to fresh dung, they gladly go and stoke the embers and fan the flames of human depravity, resulting in horrific tragedies and crimes we see going on throughout the land, which is becoming a haunt for demons. 
God gives us a choice between blessings or curses, depending on if we follow His ways or not. And so now, America is reaping what it has sown in the spiritual world. America is becoming a haunt for demonic activity because its political and cultural leaders are blind and have essentially given a green light to the Devil and his thugs to come and do their thing. And the rest of the world is in no better shape.
Because our society calls evil good and good evil, the anger of the LORD burns.
Destruction is coming upon all the nations. And it is fully deserved.
Pedophelia is not a sexual orientation. But, as a theist, you will always muddy the facts with your fears and opinions. Thanks for that, we have a wonderful world of greed and corruption from following those examples. Quoting the bible in support of your hate means nothing to me. At best you spew words in garbled English with no point. Please cite your sources proving that homosexuality and pedophelia are related, my teenage niece gets creeped on by adult ( heterosexual ) men every day but has never been approached by a woman. My nephew has never been propositioned by a man. I think your logic train is faulty.
So, you believe pedophiles are not born that way, but made that way, correct? If that is so for pedophiles, why is that not so for gays?
But anyways, common sense and common statistics bear out that homosexuals are much more prone to pedophilia than the rest of the general population. If gay comprise only 1% of the population, and if gays are no more inclined to engage in pedophilia than heterosexuals are, then it would follow that only 1% of child molesters would be gay. In other words, the next time a case of pedophilia comes up in the news, it would only be a 1% chance that it would involve a homosexual. However, reality belies this. If you took the next 100 cases of pedophilia to come up in the news (which is a random sample), will only 1 out of those 100 cases involve men molesting young boys? No, clearly it is much, much more than 1 out of a 100. So given that, if gays only represent 1% of the overall population but yet represent way more than 1% of the child molesters, then basic probability and statistics tells you that there is a vastly disproportionate amount of pedophiles in the gay population as compared to the overall population.
Pedophilia is an illegal sexual act between an adult and an underage individual. Homosexuality is the consentual relationship between two adults of the same gender. These are different things. Society does not allow sexual relationships with children because we have determined that their brains are not developed enough to process that decision. In fact, there are no allowable cases of sexuality, where consent cannot be given, regardless of age.
I reject your “news story statistics” on homosexual pedophilia as unscientific, inaccurate and anecdotal. There are no studies which support you claim, your concept of “basic probability and statistics” is mistaken and one of the most widely known cases of pedophelia involved a female schoolteacher and her male student. There are homosexual pedophiles and there are heterosexual pedophiles. in addition, because of the negative stigma placed on the victim, especially young girls, many cases are never reported even when the parents become aware. We can thank the theistic concept “damaged goods” for this. Without statistics your argument has no validity.
I can find no studies claiming that pedophelia is genetic, however there are some women who claim all MEN are pedophiles by nature, even if they never act on it. This is based on the evolutionary concept of the male mating with the youngest of the females to propogate the species. Since that instinct is largely about increasing the size of the group, we have determined it is not beneficial in an overcrowded world. By contrast, as little as 500 years ago, girls were often bearing children in their teens, without being seen as wrong. This is still not a defense in anyway as we are able construct laws which require us to sidestep “natural behavior” when it is beneficial for the species. For instance, there is nothing natural about defecating in a porcelin bowl, but their are penalties for doing so in our “natural” environment. We accept this law because it is better for society as a whole.
Whether homosexuality is genetic or choice is a subject which receives much debate but is largley irrelevant to anyone but theists. Homosexuals contribute greatly to our society with invention, innovation, art and music. they are doctors and lawyers, employers and workers. They adopt children in an overcrowded world and provide loving , non judgemental homes and largely do not seek to reproduce and further add to the planets burden. There is no evidence that being homosexual harms society as whole, in and of itself.
The rest of your original post is just blah,blah,bible. Blah, blah, invisible devil. Blah, blah, I hope god reads this and sees what a good Christian I am. It really requires no additonal comment except that , yes, you are in fact a homophobe. That’s the definition, someone who fears homosexuals.The reason doesn’t matter, except that you can ignore the words from a book and see them as the wonderful humans they can be, or you can single out the ones who are not so great and blame it on their sexuality. Some people are good, so not so much, the reasons are many and diverse but rarely involve what gender you prefer.
“your concept of “basic probability and statistics” is mistaken”
So are you arguing against my math? If gays represent only 1% of the population and if more than 1% of the pedophiles are homosexuals, then that tells you that homosexuals are more prone to pedophilia. If you disagree with that statement, you are arguing against basic math.
Not your math, merely your statistics. I don’t think we as a society have the numbers to accurately quantify this issue. As of right now the APA states: Despite a common myth, homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are.” That’s good enough for me.
In typical theistic fashion I allowed you to divert attention from the original issue by invoking the natural Instinct to defend children. I for one, am not a fan of pedophiles. Having witnessed the harm they cause, I believe it is a a serious issue our society should be addressing. However, I do not find that the homosexuals I am aquainted with are in any way inherently pedophiles. As a factor for determining whether they should have equal rights as Americans, I think this issue is moot. As a member of a group dedicated to the repression of human rights however, you will continue to try and make the connection in order to diminish their worth in society.
Best of luck to you. Might I suggest you purchase a medical alert bracelet that informs paramedics, firefighters, surgeons, etc. that you do not want them to help you if they happen to be homosexual because they are probably pedophiles as well ? I mean, if you are going to take a stand, buck up and do it all the way.
“I don’t think we as a society have the numbers to accurately quantify this issue.”
One only needs common sense to know that homosexuals comprise more than 1% of pedophiles.
So there is nothing in your phoney book saying just let people do
whatever they want to without your Judgement..
NO DIDNT THINK SO
Ah, the hateful religious zelot uses an ancient contradiction filled manuscript with thought filtered through the prism of mysticism to validate descrimination against a minority. Not just a minority but an American tax paying one. If you ask me saying one group of tax paying citizens cannot do what other tax paying citzens get to is about as UN-AMERICAN as you can get. Either you believe all law abiding tax paying American citizens should be treated equally or you believe that book of mythology give you the right to discriminate. You can’t have it both ways. Quit playing the people against one another. You do the TPTB bidding by propagating the false dichotamy they rely on. We have more in common than what separate us. Quit hating and truly love and respect your fellow man/law abiding/tax paying American citizen. I imagine the contributor is the type, like many others, who drive every sunday, passing jails and shelters of all sorts, to go to a weathy place of worship that will tell him how to be more like JC. I might be wrong and if I am my apologies, just playing a hunch.
We got a negro president (illegally, of course) a sodomite, a Moslem, a racist, a Marxist and how is this negro turning out for you?
Do not cast your pearls before swine.
Yes, the Bible has a lot to say about sodomites.
Read about it as Sodomy & Gonorrhea. We have one as illegal president and that is truly an obamanation!
Have we no shame to do this as the greatest Christian nation that has forgotten its God?
That we should turn to negro and sodomy worship?
Do you not think in due time we will be judged? Look at California. In one year it might be gone and there will be massive migration and panic.
Why do you think they are doing military is doing the Jade Helm exercises in that Southwest region?
The bible -1
Illegal President Slander with a little more bible -1
America a christian nation -1
Negro and Sodomy Worship -1
Jade Helm warning +1
Total Comment Reality Score -3
Read my previous comment for greater details.
However I hear you believers do get Life +1 tho
No person is coming to save us. The bible is perverted nonsense. Things will get worse and then they will get better; should take about 100 years. The nonsense of religion is grinding to a much deserved death.
No mention of your liberalism religion, hmmmm……
I am reminded of that scene in the Exorcist when the possessed girl spins her head around and spews forth green bile when the Spirit of God stands before her.
Such are the comments here.
Such is the power of darkness.
Boogey!, Boogy!, Boogy!…The invisible man in the sky is gonna get you unless you worship his son, errr…I mean him, who he sent to earth to save you from an eternity in hell as ordered by, umm…himself. When dealing with believers I’m reminded of every scene from Idiocracy.
@Haystack_Needle. I loved Idiocracy and considered it a documentary chronicling the rise of man to date. I’m equal parts Frito and Joe Bauers but i muddle through.
Of most interest, to me, is your assertion that the Bible contains ancient contradiction and is likely based on mysticism and mythology. Perhaps you’re a noob and weren’t around to witness such opinion failing to gain any traction so i’ll offer up some time to find out if you can do any better.
Pick one of those three topics and come at me, bro, plus there’s bonus points if you can name my religion or which church i might attend.
Hey, what’s up Mayhem, nice to meet you. I don’t trust anyone who does not like Idiocracy
. I don’t have alot of time so I’m gonna be lazy about this. This should cover the contradictions part: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions. By any measure of the definition of mythology, religious belief qualifies as such.
Also check out the Epic of Gilgamesh, I bet you’ll find it like another popular story that came after it. Or investigate how the tale of Noah’s flood is a take on a past pole shift that occured.
Just as i thought, Haystack_Needle, you’ll do no better than the average Atheist. Right off the bat you uphold Zechariah Sitchin as your Prophet (Profit) and its obvious you’re hoping that believers really are too stupid to see right through his silly nonsense.
I’ll allow that the flood accounts, of Genesis and Gilgamesh, are superficially similar but you’ll have to allow that this does not equate to proof. Would you be comfortable sending a man to the gallows for looking “superficially similar” to a murderer?
In reality there are only two unique similarities between the different accounts, namely, the landing place being a mountain and using birds to gauge when the flood had subsided. However i suggest one wouldn’t need to read either account to figure that a mountain would be the first thing to emerge from the deep and that sending out birds was the best way to find nearby land.
Of more interest are the points of divergence and lets examine some of those…
The reason for the flood:
Genesis – Human wickedness of which Yahweh lamented.
Gilgamesh – Excessive human noisiness preventing the gods from sleeping.
The decision was made by:
Genesis – Yahweh (God)
Gilgamesh – Council of the gods lead by Enlil.
Warning of impending flood:
Genesis – Noah warned anyone who would listen.
Gilgamesh – Utnapishtim lied about it to trick folk into helping with the build.
The boats:
Genesis – 450 by 75 by 45 feet with a wooden roof and 3 decks, build time 100 years..
Gilgamesh – 200 by 200 by 200 feet with a slate roof and 6 decks, build time 7 days.
The cargo:
Genesis – Animals and food.
Gilgamesh – Animals, food, gold, jewels and other valuables.
The launch:
Genesis – Rising flood waters.
Gilgamesh – Pushed to the river.
The flood:
Genesis – 40 days of rain and earth flooded for 370 days.
Gilgamesh – 7 days of rain and earth flooded for 14 days.
… and let me ask you, Haystack_Needle, will you still claim they are the same story or do i need to mention that Sitchin said there were spaceships at the mountain top landing place?
Now I turn my attention to your claim, Haystack_Needle, that the Bible contains insurmountable contradictions. I’m sure the readers won’t have the patience to bear with me while I debunk “The-Thinking-Atheist” in its entirety so i’ll begin at the beginning, if you’ll pardon the pun. It is said that the first two chapters of Genesis are inconsistent and contradictory. The order in which things were created are, apparently, switched about and this casts doubt over the validity of the material. Pfft! I say and pfft again.
The argument goes…
“In Genesis 1: trees, birds and animals came before man with Adam & Eve created at the same time. And in Genesis 2: trees, birds and animals came after man with women being created later on. See it’s, at least, inconsistent if not a clear contradiction therefore the whole Bible is null and void.”
… the problem with this argument is that it relies entirely on the English translations to support its premise. The Scriptures were not written in English so it’s best to be looking for what is known about the original, ancient, manuscripts. Wouldn’t you agree?
Here’s what is found…
Translated in its perfect form H3335… yatsar… can be rendered “formed” and many Bibles have it this way. But this verb can equally be translated in pluperfect form which allows for “had formed”. It is not for me to say which translation is correct but, i ask you, which one makes the most sense?
If there are any other, supposed, contradictions that you would like me to address, Haystack_Needle, you will pay me the respect of putting your arguments in your own words or else be left with the opinions of men for your comfort. Of course you may post links, to anything that gets your wheels spinning, but i do hope you have something that can make it passed page one before it’s laughed out of the room. What else might you have, buddy?
Hey Mayhem. Well my take on it is this – using the Bible (in whatever translation or view) to prove the Bible is circular logic at it’s finest. And no I am not a Sitchin-ite. You see, depite you’re invite you speculate on your beliefs I did not want to as that it would entail assumption which I’m not fond of. Pole shifts happen, thats all there is to it. There is a saying by Jerry DeWitt that I’m fond of and it goes like this:
Skepticism is my nature
Freethought is my methodology
Agnosticism is my conclusion
Athiesm is my opinion
Humanism is my motivation.
As for the story of Noah welll…as a professional animal handler of all sorts, wild and domestic, I can assure you of the impossibility of it all unless “magic” factors in. That story is downright silly. A better story is the one about Noah getting all hammered and how he acts when his son finds his naked inebriated self. His reaction could be construed as being really F’ed up.
You can’t blame me for doing the ol’ paste job with the contradictions. I’mean there are so many I would have to spend way too much time going over them all. You know and saw how many there are. Heck, there are many visual representations too that are very telling. I just advise folk to look up these plethora of contradictions, thats all, it cuts to the chase.
It is rude of you to expect me to find the sense in your writing, Haystack_Needle, and you ought to do better lest you make Atheism appear lazy or stupid. Now then; it looks like you might be needing those bonus points, after all, care to try naming my Religion or Church?
Do you not use History books to prove history? Why do you suggest i can’t use the Bible? Do try to be reasonable and logical, if you can.
Yes, Sir, you are indeed a Sitchin-ist given that Zechariah is not readily accepted in scholarly circles. In other words very few agree with his take on The Epic of Gilgamesh. Your view is Sitchin’s view and you’re welcome to cling to the opinions of men for your comfort.
The most telling line from DeWitt’s cinquain is “Humanism is my motivation” because this speaks to the Cult-of-self-worship otherwise known as the Philosophy-of-Religion. You don’t want to go there, with me, buddy so consider wisely before insisting.
I further suggest you shy away from the Creation v Evolution topic unless you like getting thrashed all over the interweb being made to look the fool.
You provided a website whose very first point failed completely and utterly yet you still argue that it contains material that supports your case. Well make your case, Haystack_Needle, so i can take a look at it and if you seem worthy i’ll give you my views.
I applause
“The sodomy and transgender struggle has become a “War Against God and the Holy Bible.””
Nope, that just proves you have a very large ego to believe it’s all about you. It’s a war against ignorance. What are you basing gender on? Appearance or DNA? We have men with female DNA and women with male DNA and every shade inbetween. You and people like you are acting in a very primitive way called ‘green monkey syndrome’. A mindless, violent assault on an individual who appears or acts differently to themselves.
“God did not create one person that does not have the freewill to choose their lifestyle.”
WHAT? doesn´t anyone know that our wills are not half as free as we have been taught? those who really have the bad luck (yeah I think it is bad luck, a whim of biology) to be able to fall in love and have erotic sensations only about persons of their own sex and not the normal heterosexual way, can NOT change this pattern.
they only have the choice between homosexuality and chastity. And chastity is a path that not all people can follow, for it needs a lot of self-control and determination to remain chaste.
It is the same about many other varieties of behavior that we – rightly!- call vices, as alcoholism, the tendency to have physical fights with others, the tendency to break marriage, and so on.
To put it short, the proverb “no one has to be blamed for his patterns of character”
for they are more a product of Nature than of one´s own effort,
is more than half-way correct. THIS IS A FACT.
Do Christians who preach about a God of Love and Wisdom really have to think that the “All-wise and Almighty ” God does not know this banal FACT, or even cruelly and consciously ignores it and says to us humans, including disabled, brain-damaged, genetically disadvantaged etc people that all of us can change our habits and behaviors at random just by free will, accusing all those of bad will and an evil heart who experienced the opposite?
Isn´t this idea
which means that God is not all-wise nor merciful at all
but just a narrowminded ignorer of facts who condemns people for things they cant control –
blasphemous to the uttermost?
“It is blasphemous to accuse God of being a “respecter of persons” – this is a conclusion of the article´s author, taken from a speech of Saint Peter reported in the Acts in New Testament.
WHAT???
Jesus says in the Gospel that God knows everything about every being on Earth: “He even has counted the hairs on your heads.”
But if He knows all about all of us, how can He NOT be a respecter of persons i.e. one who understands why I cannot keep commandment X and my neighbor fails at commandment Y and my wife fails at commandment Z- no matter how hard we try…?
How can He be said to think of us “you dont want to obey” and condemn us, while He- as Jesus testifies about His Father in Heaven (who probably was NOT the dictatorial and cruel Yahweh but someone much higher up) – KNOWS, reading our minds, that we really feel and experience that we CANNOT obey although we try?
Whose words are more important – those of St Peter, or those of His and Our Master Jesus Himself?
and isn´t that thought
that God has no understanding or respect for us as persons,
although he reads our minds and knows everything about us,
an ULTIMATE blasphemy???
For, it makes our Creator
who in reality is our UNDERSTANDING FATHER IN HEAVEN, a REAL father not just a dictator misnamed Big Daddy
- this is what Jesus showed, lived and preached –
seem to be the ultimate Evil one…
a character who doesnt need the Devil anymore, being devilish himself… calling himself good while being cruel…!
People of all creeds and tribes just look up to the sky and see how wide and deep it is,
and then imagine how deep and wide the Creator´s heart must be
to have been able to design this world, this planet, this cosmos!
Then you will surely understand, for example,
why Jesus told us that we shalt not judge each other lest we be judged ourselves.
How can we judge and condemn each other,
being unable to read each other´s minds
and being so narrowhearted by nature
that most of us can NOT imagine that the Father-in-Heaven that Jesus spoke about is a REAL and GOOD father,
just because our mundane dictators have their slaves call them Big Good Daddy… thinking God is like those men?
I do NOT mean to call bad things good. In fact I HATE this kind of modern lying. Homosexuality for example is NOT as good as the heterosexual family pattern, and it would be better to no longer praise / propagate it in public. Men who are unable to love a woman, and thus have to turn to physical love with persons of their own sex, are rather to be pitied than to be acknowledged. But no one has the right to call all Homosexuals bad-willed or evil-hearted who dont succeed in making themselves Heterosexuals by exercises of prayer or by will-force.
what I mean is that all Christians should acknowledge the fact that NO ONE except Jesus Himself can keep ALL commandments, and that GOD KNOWS THAT, AND KNOWS IT TO BE INEVITABLE, AND THUS FORGIVES.
I can´t say it often enough, folks: How wide is the sky! How wide, then, must be Creator´s heart! Jesus knew that. And His words and actions weigh more than all that is said in Old Testament about Old Yahweh.
As far as I’m aware the only mention of homosexuality in the bible is in Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus.
Both are highly open to interpretation, for example. “”Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind:..” = men shouldn’t lie to men the same way men lie to women. Mainly because women understand men perfectly, but men don’t understand women at all.
Once again Pix displays her utter ignorance regarding Holy Writ.
The Bible defines sex between men and men and between women and women as idol worship — a grave transgression condemned frequently all throughout Scripture.
Louis “Once again Pix displays her utter ignorance regarding Holy Writ”
No mate, I understand perfectly,.. who wrote what when and it’s context. It’s you folks who don’t get it, that a book made up from pagan fables and histoical lies, via translations of translations from other translations, is recipe for codswallop.
Louis “… her …”
Thanks for the compliment, but mixing it with an insult = oxymoron, moron.
Sodomites, make me laugh! They are so queer!
I got a PHD in Anthropology, as to where, and how I was taught, is sealed from everyone. I am a geek, I liked to eat my buggars when I was a kid, snot running down my face, lapping it up like a starved fly! But know I am your professor, and you are my sheep! Ha Ha Ha! I control your mind! Your man God Darwin was just like me!
“I got a PHD in Anthropology…”
Yeah, I can tell. lol. You capitalized all three letters and said, “I got”. Did you mean, you HAVE a PhD? No, I don’t think you have a PhD. I do think you might be a pathological liar though. Anyone who has to lie to try and put themselves above others, has some serious issues going on up top… Feel me, playa?
Ouch!
Sometimes you just got call a spade a spade.
Cleareyes “I am a geek,. ”
A geek wouldn’t write “., I liked to eat my buggars when I was a kid, snot running down my face, lapping it up like a starved fly!” More like a jester, seeing as geeks are serious buggars.
Just a quick question for all the believers out there – Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?
-Doh!
Serious Questionn – The Omnipotence Paradox of which there are many. Not to mention how the mere presence of all knowing being brings into question the concept of free will. Even if we have free will as many believers will argue is it really true when there is an entity, an all powerful one that know what you are going to do regardless? Hummm…I’m guessing cue the “types of omnipotence” and “understanding of omnipotence” arguments in 3…2…1… annnnnnd go!
You must be new, Haystack_Needle, to imagine we haven’t heard of the, supposed, paradoxical nature of Omnipotence. I hope you’ve got your philosophy cap on because you’re about to get laughed at, again. Lets take a logical and reasonable view of the position. You would have it…
“The Paradox of Omnipotence: God either can or cannot microwave a burrito so hot that He could not eat it therefore, either way, God is not omnipotent.”
… and i would ask why God should be bound to your logical fallacy? What logical purpose could there be in microwaving burritos so hot that they couldn’t be eaten and then eating them just to prove you’re the man? That’s junior school philosophy my friend and i expect better from grown-ups.
Yes it’s so Junior School that great thinkers (and grown ups) like Aquinas and Descartes tackled it. Not to mention numerous christian philosophers. Yes, very Junior School
O.K. now that that part of the argument has been blown out of the water we come back to the issue that you have not answered the question. Or perhaps you could as best you can. The whole ,who am I to question the power of the all-powerfull, and why should he be bound by (in your view) logical fallacy, is a straight up cop-out. It’s funny to see believers backed into a corner on their faith, having to fall back on philosophy to split hairs so their ego can reside in a comfort zone. It is not logical fallacy it’s a logical question which so often discombobulates the faithful. Very fun to watch the faithful try to use reason and philosophy in conjuction with filtering thought through a prism of mysticism. Resembles a train wreck and the watching of clowns pile into a car at the circus.
The opinions of yet more men, huh, and The Paradox-of-Omnipotence is not philosophy? I didn’t fall back, my friend, i followed you and good luck backing Truth into any sort of corner. Further more; everybody filters information. You, Me, Everybody. Were you trying to come across as a hypocrite?
Mayhem, this is in conjunction with the conversation we are engadging in above.
Feel free to believe anything you want about me, does not make it so. I always seek knowledge from a variety of sources never placing my eggs in one basket be it history books or books of mythology. As for your belief system that’s your personal business which I have no desire to speculate on aside from you being a believer. If I’m wrong about that my bad. Hummm…You don’t agree with the first topic of contradiction on the site so that, in your expertise, invalidates the multitude of other points presented. Now that is lazy. Hey, if you want to get down and dirty about that bible of yours we can do that. Hell, I’ll play with one hand (the old testament) tied behind my back. I’ll just keep it to new testament atrocities. Anyone can go to a number of sites that list them, here is one that lists 111 NT baddies (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt_list.html). And before you go about complaining about copy/paste here is one for you – Do you agree with Timothy 2-12…you know, ” But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” Now that is some good NT S%$t right there. Please explain how this flies. Let me guess, only applies within the curch…sigh. And let the mental knot tying, contorsions, and (hopefully not) boorish commence. Or if you wish we can agree to disagree and call it a game. I’m good either way.
What! No capitulation on the Gilgamesh issue or acknowledgement that the, first possible, example of a contradiction is actually no such thing? You’re just going to plow on hoping some of what you’re throwing will stick. Too bad, for you, you’ve now run into me and i think i’ve seen all of your argument. Thus i engaged with you just to find out if you had anything new to add. I’m disappointed, so far, but i’ve some more time.
Thanks for your permission, to think what i will about you, but i didn’t need it, dummy. And Brendan Powell Smith jumps through hoops trying to understand God from mans perspective. He cherry picks Scripture to make it look like it agrees with his hate-filled position. I’ll leave you with his opinion for your comfort.
In a clear sign that you’re starting to panic you now wish to go the Sexism route. Fair enough and this is about par for the course, ie, totally expected from the likes of you, Haystack_Needle. Yes, my friend, there is most definitely a sexist theme within the inspired word, deal with it. The Bible says so much more on the subject that you are overlooking by focusing on one particular passage.
Let me explain: In his first epistle, to Timothy, Paul also instructed that we are to honor widows who are truly widows. That older women are to be treated as mothers and younger women as sisters, in all purity. Likewise in his 1st epistle Peter instructed that husbands live with their wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are also heirs, along with their husband, to the grace of life. By the way; Peter goes as far as agreeing with Paul, but includes everybody, that women should be of humble deportment.
Did Paul not speak highly of women, did he not place them at his side in equality, lets see shall we? Paul said: “Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel…”. He also wrote: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”. Could i make the case any more plain?
I can sure try: King Solomon entreated: “An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.” He went on to give examples of righteous women doing excellently and surpassing all others. He wrote of woman’s strength and dignity being her clothing and how she laughs at the time to come. Noting that she dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.
But yes, Haystack_Needle, Paul did say “And so train the young women to love their husbands and children…” but you’ll have to twist and turn to argue that love could be forced, from that. Want to do Racism next? There’s an obvious theme running through the Scriptures which anyone studying the Bible will have to address eventually.
Alright Ladies and Gents I’m Chet Hoodwinked and it looks like we have another rousing game of DO!..YOU!..BELIEVE IT!!!
To my right folks is the believer with a name that makes you glance twice…it’s MAYHEM! To my left if I can find him is the oft-too-ornrey to his own detriment..it’s HAYSTACK_NEEDLE!
OK. lets get down to business and play the games boys and girls…
Chet: Haystack a question for you…
When someone uses multiple paragraphs to legitimize a one or two sentance phrase what do you think?
HN: Well Chet, I first like to employ my stress reduction technique of banging my head against a wall and then re-analyze a long answer to a seemingly simple question. However in regards to the rationalizing of the second-class citizen status of the woman in the bible (despite those examples you made…hey what do you know we have one of the many contradicions again. Say one thing here, say another there) it Reeks of knots and contorsions. Yeah, I know times were good for women back then Chet. I find myelf needing another stress reduction therapy session now.
Chet: -200 pts for being a heathen HN.
Second question HN
Who am I?…Impregnated a virgin to give birth to himself. Then sacrifices Himself to Himself, to save you from Himself
HN: Chet that would be god.
Chet: -200 for still being a heathen. Now get off my stage sinner.
Mr. Haystack Needle, who wrote:
“…now that that part of the argument has been blown out of the water…”
…shortly followed by the post above,
You participate in the verbal combat or you commentate from the sidelines, Mr. Haymaker. You do not get to do both. Only a poorly-trained and poorly-educated verbal swordsman thinks otherwise; only the fool marches in here and announces victory on a play-by-play basis. Those of us reading your words will be more than capable of determining which arguments have been destroyed and which haven’t – all barren self-congratulatory whoops and hoots notwithstanding.
Talk about bringing it, or bring it.
And here’s a helpful hint, gratis: The bringers never gloat. They don’t self-aggrandize and they don’t self-congratulate. They don’t have to. All you’ve managed thus far is to give us a very good look at your cards, saying much and accomplishing little. And despite just getting started, you’ve already pulled the sorry ‘pressed for time’ card from your wallet. A little early in the game for that hackneyed apology. Must be a pretty thin wallet. We are, all of us, busy Mr. Hay. Press on prudently.
And welcome to The BIN.
Given your mention of watching a train wreck earlier do you really think it’s wise to launch a personal attack, Haystack_Needle? You must know i’m chomping at the bit to throw that one back in your face. Oh and freewill hasn’t been forgotten, either, just ignored for now. So now you’ve decided to argue with a strawman, of your own making, predictable.
I do not ask anyone to believe, Mr Hoodwinked, in fact your Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with me. All i ask is that the Bible is fairly, and comprehensively, represented. I don’t really mind when you refuse to admit that your points are lost because it’s not me who is right, after all. As it is written.
As you will have noticed, by now Haystack_Needle, when the adversary begins to gloat others will let it be known that you and i are not alone. Just so you know, friend, there will be several people, very knowledgeable in The Word, who would not hesitate to correct my position anytime i happen to touch on the Holy Scriptures. And I thank them, collectively, for motivating me to have my ducks lined up, all pretty like.
Mayhem, I just commented to Walter about believers being no fun having, stick in the muds. Really after a creative response like that you single out “knots and contorsions” as some vicious personal attack? Come on now…really?…are you that offended? Heck the line leading up to my into is worse. Gotta be able to laugh at yourself/your beliefs dude. I know I can. Ask my fiancee. She will tell you I cop to my bad all the time. I consider it a pre-emtive measure for when I F’up which is gonna happen
I’m not at all offended and would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, Haystack_Needle, i placed no such descriptor on my use of the phrase “personal attack”. Play nice.
There is no common ground between our respective positions and never will i agree to argue my case from a neutral position. In fact, i’m wholly invested in this so you can stop worrying about that. We can debate politely just as we can choose to defend ourselves, or not. Lets just see how it goes, eh?
Mayhem, check out my question for you and Walter I accidentally posted down lower on the chain.
Oops. Never mind Mayhem, it looks like Walter has gone off to feed and water his high horse. Total hit and run on our comment line which I’m sure jives with the whole respect thing he was preaching. I’m gonna run but it was cool talking with you and hope to pick up and run with this again.
Peace and Love Bro
Pleading for mercy, due to time constraints, when no-one has demanded any such thing does make you look like you’re claiming victim status, Haystack_Needle. Is that what you were trying to do or were you merely trying to justify losing to yourself?
How quickly you go from … “OK. lets get down to business and play the games boys and girls” … to… “I’m gonna run”. Hmm?
Personally i won’t mind if you take days to respond. After all didn’t you patiently wait almost 24hrs for my reply? I offer you the same courtesy, Haystack_Needle, and welcome to the Bin.
Hello Walter,
I’ve been visiting BIN for quite awhile and I’m familiar with you, you are one of my favs. I quite enjoy your comments even when I don’t agree, much like this case. Oh and I love the avatar…awsome. However if you’ll allow me a moment to gaze up at the seemingly loftier place you reside and think from I will disagree. Was my evidence wrong in regards to “blowing it out of the water”? I get involved as time allows and that is a legit excuse. Bully for you if you have ample free time and little responsibility. Bully for you if you have it with a lot. Sometimes I have the time to get really deep. Or perhaps just a little time to kibitz from the sidelines. Sometimes I like to flex my creative muscle. The one thing I never do though is allow someone to dictate how and when I decide to express my mind, the government does enough of that to us, I don’t need you playing teacher and trying to do the same. We work with the time given us and we all have different responsibilities. Have your opions about me as you will, thats the way freedom of speach works. And as for my last post that should get points for originallity and being funny regardless of what you believe. Many (not in regards to you) doing nothing here for the rep of believers being no fun having, stick-in-the-muds. I wish CrowPie was here. I think Crow would have found it funny.
I will try to be back asap to continue. I have to care for my newly epileptic dog. Or is that not a good enough “time reason” Walter? We all have our stuff..just recognize is all I’m saying
Ok takes her bout 15 to eat her now even more expensive diet (my baby is worth it) and then I gotta tend again. How bout a quick question to consolidate and streamline the discussion here with you and Walter.
Which side in general is “walking into the lion’s den” when commenting here on BIN? Category be damned.
“The one thing I never do though is allow someone to dictate how and when I decide to express my mind…”
You’ll find that rules exist in this thing we do here, whether we admit to them or not, and whether we’re happy about them or not. I don’t make the rules, and neither do you, but we ignore the rules to our detriment. I think you know what I mean and I doubt you really believe I’m trying to place invented restrictions on your movements here. A point is well-made not only by virtue of the substance offered, but also, and sometimes more importantly, by virtue of the conduct of the person making the point. Again, I expect you know my meaning well. There are well-established and evident patterns on exhibit in this place, and those of us who lurk here are familiar with them. They make reading people, even newcomers (if that’s really what you are), easy as pie.
“…if you have ample free time and little responsibility.”
Do you take my statement that we are all busy to mean that I alone have more free time then you? Why would you do that?
“I don’t need you playing teacher…”
If you didn’t need reminding that your demeanor reflects on your argument, then you were acting like a child on purpose or in ignorance. In either case, you do need a teacher.
“And as for my last post that should get points for originallity and being funny regardless of what you believe.”
You think ridicule is funny? Appropriate? Original? Maybe you are right. But if Truth resembles that which is depicted for us in Scripture, even slightly, then you might consider who should be laughing at your ridicule and Who wouldn’t find it very amusing at all.
“Or is that not a good enough “time reason” Walter? We all have our stuff..just recognize is all I’m saying…”
I recognize this: Your hands are full with Mayhem. I leave you to it.
[When you’re dealing with fully-formed thinkers, respect goes a long way. You don’t have to agree on anything. But patronizing ridicule earns you no respect. Not even from those who might otherwise agree with you or find humor in what you write. If disrespect is in your bag, don’t bother looking for respect from anyone. Or do, and then complain you’re unfairly treated. Recognize?]
“Which side in general is “walking into the lion’s den” when commenting here on BIN? Category be damned.”
I think I know what you’re asking, but to be sure, would you mind rephrasing the question? Put a little more light on it if you would.
Oops. Never mind Mayhem, it looks like Walter has gone off to feed and water his high horse. Total hit and run on our comment line which I’m sure jives with the whole respect thing he was preaching. I’m gonna run but it was cool talking with you and hope to pick up and run with this again.
Peace and Love Bro
That’s what I get for asking you to rephrase your question?
Very well.
But who’s gone off and done what?
…and who still abides….
I’ll be standing right here if you reconsider and decide to ask your question in other, clearer, words. My answer will be as direct as I can make it.
Walter wrote, “I’ll be standing right here if you reconsider and decide to ask your question in other, clearer, words. My answer will be as direct as I can make it.”
How generous of you, walter!
My question is “What did your “odd god” make you a Pecker head who loves the image of a white-skinned mangod as maker of the whole universe?
And, my second question is, “You and may girl are “Gay” Lovers, right?
YOU always “Hang out” together, holding dicks, here on BIN!
Also, is jesus a “homosexual”, like you guys are, wALTER??
am123 thinks jesus is a homo!!!
THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, you free kin douche bag madJED (who worships the white-skinned mangod)!!!!
What screws us up most in life is the picture in our head of how it is supposed to be.
I have never met a violent christian, but I have met plenty of violent non christians. Of course, killing and silencing christians only serves as a panacea to remove yourself from the shame that the light brings….and people just can’t handle the truth…especially about themselves.!
Because you have not met a violent christian I guess they don’t exist. You really have never heard of one, ever…not once?
I…uh…(facepalm)
You NEVER met a “violent” christo-CREEP of ameriiiSCUM???
WHY, YOUR WHOLE FREE KIN CUNTRY IS VIOLENT……….and predominately self-described christo-CREEPS!!!
The different flavors of judeo-christo-CREEPS come to BIN because a judeo-christo-CREEP of ANY ‘persuasion” just LOVES WAR, LOVES CONFLICT!
LOVES the intense VERBAL CONFLICT that can lead to violence and WAR!!
IS BORN AND BRED TO BE ALWAYS ON EDGE AND READY TO ENGAGE IN “CONFLICT’!!!
judeo-christo- CREEPS of ameriiiSCUM LOVE WAR!
Just look at “your” christian country, the united Fraudulent Fascist states of TORTURE and MILITARY TERROR, A Nation of Caucasian psychopathic WAR MONGERS ALL, born and brain-washed bred!!!!!
BRUTAL MASS MURDERERS!
You monsters in the united Fraudulent Fascist states of TORTURE and MILITARY TERROR Literally PROVOKE AND CAUSE WARS TO HAPPEN on a regular basis, WORLDWIDE!
For 10 years, with their CIA Placed Sunni, Saddam Hussein, dictator of Iraq, your united Fascist states of MILITARY TERROR and France GAVE HIM all the munitions and firepower needed to WAR with Iran! Over 1,000,000 people on both sides were killed by your WAR MONGERING country, idiot with NO insight!!!!
While you Demonic SOB’s cash registers rang!!!
Why did the united Fraudulent Fascist states of TORTURE and MILITARY TERROR want Iran attacked?
Because Iran EMBARRASSED THE HELL out your vile, violent “country” WORLDWIDE by sacking your embassy and holding hostage your so-called “Diplomats” for a few years! The Iranians’ over-threw and drove out of the country a dictator/ monarch-King, that you usurping bastards had installed as “Ruler” in Iran AFTER CAUSING THE OVERTHROWN IN 1953 of the ONLY Democratic government that had ever developed to that time in Persia!
Also, you lying Caucasian WAR MONGERING monsters shot down one of Iran’s civilian aircraft, killing hundred’s of civilian passengers on board, AND DID NOT EVEN APOLOGIZE PUBLICLY. But you fraudulent SOB’s did pay reparations, as per the World Court!!!
And, you vile LIARS support violent Dictators on a regular basis!!
I have watched IN HORROR as the vast majority of you ameriiscums “volunteer”, “follow the orders” and kill on command like well conditioned ATTACK DOGS over the last 60+ years!
These repulsive, hypnotized, so-called “human beings” CALLED “christians” in the united Fraudulent Fascist states of TORTURE and MILITARY TERROR have killed 30 million people since WW2!
WAR MONGERS (for Christ, of course)!
AmeriiiSCUM christian KILLER CULT!
Your “free” country has started 201 of 248 armed conflicts since the end of WW2.
Your “country”, brain-washed from birth ameriiiscums, has started 81% of all “wars”, and HAVE KILLED 30 million people SO FAR, JUST SINCE 1950 AND LATER!
You and your “country” MAKE Nazi’s look like “kindergarteners” because of YOUR use of Depleted Uranium Munitions over wide areas of civilian populations!
You are all succulent KILLERS, for christ, of course!
AND YOU ULTRA-VIOLENT “LUNATICS” actually “think” “you” are “the good guys”!
The “christian” Killer Cult (who worships, as god, a “white-skinned mangod”, complete with penis) which always says “We come in peace”!!!
We are “peaceful”!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The “religion” of “Love”!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
LIARS SUPREME!
KILLERS Absolute!
Read the short list of the MASS MURDERS, called WARS, that these WAR-MONGERING Caucasian judeo-christo-Satanists have perpetrated on much weaker countries for nothing more of a motive than STEALING natural resources and producing drugs there to sell back in the Homeland (love that nazi-ich terminology introduced by the federal government of the united Fascist states of MILITARY TERROR)!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the Short list of MASS MURDERS:
The United States, officially a secular nation but predominantly Christian, attacked;
El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986), Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d’Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Haiti (2010), etc. etc. etc. etc.
This is the Reality you face in the U.S., my fellow Americans.
YOU ARE NOT THE GOOD GUYS.
You ARE ALL USED, like “Tools”, against your fellow humans to steal, rape, pillage and plunder, as well as KILLING.
And, soon the time for retribution and revenge against your WAR MONGERING country will begin, coming from ALL Directions!!
Lord
Love your play on words.. “..YOUR WHOLE FREE KIN CUNTRY IS VIOLENT.. ..just LOVES WAR, LOVES CONFLICT.”
If a CUNTRY FLICKs-a-CON, isn’t that a fake orgasm.
First off Mayhem, I never pleaded for mercy in regards to time constrainsts. I guess my bad for explaining why I gotta step away..how f’ing rude of me (facepalm). I guess just hoping your fellow man would have a little understanding is to much to ask, at least of the “forgiving believer that loves his fellow man” type. My bad to expect that of your and Walters type.
And Walter, when you make it sound like you are out of here and you are going to “leave me to Mayhem” , yes I thought you left. Your words.
As for my question I will rephrase: Is the non-believer or believer the underdog, on average, when commenting on religious topics? Which side do you think has the greater numbers here?
Tangent – Just a show of hands here of people commenting. How many are church goers (does not matter which day)?
Another question – how many jails and shelters of all sorts do you pass on your way to worship at a place (sometimes wealthy) that will explain to you how to be more like jesus?
“Is the non-believer or believer the underdog, on average, when commenting on religious topics?”
(You have my thanks for clarifying your question, Haystack. I thought you’d shown us your back. That is what I took to be your meaning, but I wanted to be sure before answering.)
I would admit that lately (within the past six months or a year) self-professed ‘believers’ do seem to outnumber the ‘non-believers’ here at this website, and specifically in the comment sections of ‘religious’-themed topics. When I first began commenting here, the opposite seemed true, and it was not uncommon for a believer to find himself in a contest of words with multiple opponents.
Many times over the past three or four months I have seen an out-spoken advocate for atheism or even ‘militant agnosticism’ become virtually surrounded by a group of believers all vying to raise points against agnosticism or atheism at the same time, which tends to make for disorderly conversation and/or debate. I’ve been guilty of jumping in myself, as you saw above when I interjected a comment into the dialogue you were having with Mayhem.
Speaking purely to your choice term ‘underdog’: It is my contention that a believer well-studied in the Word is never an underdog against atheism or agnosticism – no matter how militant the stripe. Thought the believer may be beset by a dozen or more opponents simultaneously, he will discover the unsound foundation of each and every argument leveled against him via patient, direct and thorough answering of every single objection raised.
“Tangent – Just a show of hands here of people commenting. How many are church goers (does not matter which day)?”
Your friend Walter attends no church at all, and has not done for many years. I believe to incorporate any form of tangible assembly in this world, is to invite an onslaught of corruption – overt and covert. I am aware of no organized body, self-identifying as church, anywhere in my vicinity, which would rise to the level of strict adherence to Scriptural Instruction. Said another way – I do not feel that any church, practically throughout the entire United States, is doing what they should be doing, according to the written Word, to the exclusion of all man-made ideas, traditions, imaginations, innovations or inventions. If I could find a legitimate body of members, in pursuit of obedience to scriptural guidelines, I would seek to join myself to that body. Having found no such thing to exist, I abstain from association with any organization that would seek to place demands on my time and my resources while trying (overtly and covertly) to deviate my allegiance from the Most High to some other entity.
“Another question – how many jails and shelters of all sorts do you pass on your way to worship at a place (sometimes wealthy) that will explain to you how to be more like jesus?”
Rather presumptuous of you, no? Are you aware of how either Mayhem or I occupy our time? How about any of the other self-described believers on these boards? Why then do you presume to improve something you seem to deny the validity of, even absent a valid assessment of that thing from your present perspective? This sort of flawed judgment undermines the position from which you argue. That’s not to say that many believers (so-called) don’t conduct their affairs with brazenly anti-scriptural speech and behavior; but it is to say that you are remiss in your duty as a cognizant observer of facts when you stoop to one-size-fits-all condemnation (insinuated in the question) even before you’ve had a chance to assay the terrain on which you stand.
Very cool answer and I concur with much of what you say especially the part about chaotic conversation. It’s why I tried to steamline the convo between us three. Don’t agree about the well-versed believer aspect though. It speaks, at least to me, of a set, inflexable mind set in stone and baised. I could be wrong. I could easily take the same aspect with the well-versed un-believing “man of science”. I always seeks strong minds to banter with as that I want my knowledge base challenged and hopefully expanded. Sometimes getting proved wrong can be the best thing to happen to a person. One just has to be open minded about being open to learing and not let ego get in the way of development.
Was not making a presumption on either you or Mayhem, nor is it a one size fits all observation. Just an honest question to the whole commenting forum. If the question of jails and such hits some peoples nerves the wrong then maybe there is a reason for that. Nothing wrong in pointing out the oft-occuring and obvious hypocracy of such folk. It was not a wide paintbrush, you should not take it as such.
As an agnostic (have to be if I’m intellectually honest with mysef) with athieistic leanings in regards to an individual omnipotent being, it is my firm belief that as of right now the absoulte truth is above my pay grade. I’m ok with that but I’m always seeking a raise if you know what I mean. Got to put in the hard work, time and analytical thought while also balancing the mind/body/spirit to get it. I do believe in “something greater” than this mere mortal coil.
Walter …please please, please tell me you have a pet named Dude or Donny. Now that would be awsome.
Believe it or not Walter my epileptic dog is name St. Ursula
“Don’t agree about the well-versed believer aspect though.”
You haven’t yet engaged in extensive dialogue with the right believers.
“It speaks, at least to me, of a set, inflexable mind set in stone and baised.”
Bias should always be tempered by strength of evidence. And bias should be recognized and tolerated only in the face of strong corroborating information. The information itself must be testable and verifiable. Everything in Scripture is testable and verifiable. Modern ‘academic’-types will of course deny this, but they have, in the main, limited themselves to a narrow confines of examination metrics they find acceptable (such as comparison with ‘peer-reviewed’ material), forsaking other perfectly valid avenues of testing.
“Sometimes getting proved wrong can be the best thing to happen to a person.”
Plato agreed with this sentiment, whole-heartedly.
“If the question of jails and such hits some peoples nerves the wrong then maybe there is a reason for that.”
The incarceration industry in this country (assuming you to be American) is an incendiary topic. There are many reasons to give a wide berth to all public discourse pertaining to the American prison system, apart and aside from any societal sense that all prisoners are worthy of contempt and should be shunned. Most of us will freely admit that there are, perhaps many, men and women imprisoned in our system who are, if not innocent of the charges against them, guilty and owing to a far lesser degree than the steep rate at which they are being made to pay. An outrageously bloated criminal justice code is but another subject for consideration – and this before anyone even comes to discuss right or fair treatment of the imprisoned. I would much rather be locked in a dark eighteenth century dungeon with wet stone walls, rusty iron chains and comradery, rather than a well-lit, modern, air-conditioned, dry and comparatively clean facility, in isolation or in solitary confinement. The claim that we no longer torture our prison populace is absurd. That is not to say, however, that in some cases, a bit of torture isn’t justified. Sometimes it is. So too is imprisonment itself, in a great many cases. This entire argument is a minefield.
“As an agnostic (have to be if I’m intellectually honest with mysef)…”
There is no such thing as an actual atheist. Atheists are, for one reason or another, angry at the Most High and resentful of any restrictions He might place on them. Or they’re angry at Him because of things He’s done or hasn’t done. I can easily see how this may sound like a preposterous assertion to you. This conclusion became feasible for me only after many years of interviewing and interrogating self-proclaimed atheists. I don’t believe a true atheist has ever existed. But there are plenty of agnostics who self-describe as atheists, and even more who know damn well there is a Creator of All Things, but, for one reason or another, they choose to deny Him to His Face.
“…it is my firm belief that as of right now the absoulte truth is above my pay grade.”
Absolute truth is something beyond the reach of all living. There are things living men and women will never get to know or to see while they abide in their bodies of flesh. Moreover, there are aspects of the Biblical Narrative that are kept off-limits from the living, and while the Bible makes no apologies for this fact, the fact is plainly recognized within the writing. None of us should be overly concerned with absolutes when we presently occupy sensory devices (bodies) which are inherently limited in their capacity to perceive and to comprehend. What we can do is pursue a sense of the true and an interrelation with Truth. We can learn to recognize Truth and to follow Truth. This is best accomplished by looking outwardly and comparing what we find with what exists in our internal mental model of this world. All contradictions need to be resolved; internal weaknesses need to be understood and accounted for; limitations in our ability to fathom and to realize need to be accommodated. The utter futility of self-reliance needs to be acknowledged.
“I’m ok with that but I’m always seeking a raise if you know what I mean.”
That’s the nature of the study itself. “The unexamined life is not worth living…” and such. Plato fell short of the quantum leap he would have needed for authentic revelation. He was too self-reliant. Even his genius was not enough to accomplish the legitimate goal of the honest seeker.
“I do believe in “something greater” than this mere mortal coil.”
That destroys any myth of you being an atheist. A good thing, that.
“Walter …please please, please tell me you have a pet named Dude or Donny. Now that would be awsome.”
There’s a cat called Dude (no relation to Lebowski). There should probably be a horse named Donny, but those days are either in the future… or in the past.
You’re feeling somewhat put upon, Haystack_Needle, and whine about it as though you are due an apology. Lets remember how this little stoush began…
“Ah, the hateful religious zelot uses an ancient contradiction filled manuscript with thought filtered through the prism of mysticism to validate descrimination…”
… and from this, tone setting diatribe, you now wish to claim victim status and beg for understanding, acceptance and relief. I use the term “beg” because it is you who controls the off switch on your computer, not anyone else, you never need to make excuses for your online time. You may join in, or not, and the choice is yours alone to make.
I’m not here to preach and teach, Haystack_Needle, but to defend the Truth in The Word. Not that the Truth needs my help, far from it, but this is how i increase my knowledge, of Scripture, and yours. By way of example you say…
“I want my knowledge base challenged and hopefully expanded.”
… and already you have learned that it is unwise to claim the Bible is inconsistent and contradictory. Having said that would you care to explain how anyone is supposed to recognize your questioning position given your opening statement?
In regard to your conversation with Walter i think it entirely unfair to chastise him for continuing after he had offered to step aside given that you didn’t play your part in the bargain. Do you feel me? Agreeing to disagree or to dropping the subject requires commitment from both parties. Or were you just trying to clear the stage so you could continue preaching, from on high, un-interrupted? Not to mention moaning about the “numbers” while addressing your questions to more than one person at a time.
In complete agreement with Walter i too have no religion nor do i attend any church services. In fact both of us would counsel that you are absolutely right to be suspicious of all 4,000 odd flavours because the Truth cannot be found in them. Truth is in The Word and no one, other than Jesus, may get between you and God. Not me, not Walter and especially not some preacher man claiming to have some special or hidden understanding of the Bible.
I see myself as a lie stealer. My schtick is stealing away the “comforting” lies of men. I do this in order to demonstrate that there is nothing in the Bible that could offend the mind of a thinking person. I engage with you because you seem to be a thinking man and because i trust that you will one day ask the right question. I do love you, unconditionally, but i’m all about the tough love so buck up for the suds friend or step aside.
You mentioned freewill earlier and i feel it’s time to state my case in this regard. Just so you know i have no freewill i have made my choice. We are given freewill to choose between Jesus and Satan (there is no 3rd option) and, either way it ends once the choice is made. We follow Jesus, to the best of our inadequate abilities, or we follow Satan and become a tool for the purpose of whichever we choose. What did you think “freewill” meant?
Oh and say “Hi” to Chris-Lord. Some say he’s the owner, of B4IN, and many know he has more than a dozen sock-puppet accounts which he sometimes uses to manipulate the voting. Chris-Lord effing hates me, religion and God but in the reverse order and the really funny part is he has a good point except he refuses to differentiate between Christianity and Faith. They are nothing like the same thing.
Mayhem,
You claim I feel put upon, that I think I’m due an apology, and that I seek victimhood status.
Where in the %^&*!!! are you are getting this from? Not the first time you’ve flow off the handle attributing certian beliefs by myself but I put up with it. Are you projecting much perhaps? I think so. I really don’t know what else to say about this wildly unrealistic view. Don’t know where to go here with you as your delusional views I do not think I can work with. I thought we were having some decent back and forth until now. I’m sure you will call it running away, believe what you will, I can only put up with so many false accusations until I move on to more worthy conversation.
Peace Mayhem,
Like a good radio host I’ll sign off and give you the last word as you probably feel like you need it.
Walter,
It was nice to wake up and pick up our convo. Oh yes I’ve spoken with many accomplished minds off all sorts. I grew up doing the whole religious kit and kaboodle. I have not yet encountered a counter argument here I have not encountered before. Perhaps lazy not to respond to every point but that brings us back to the choas of juggling comments we were discussing earlier. But that is why I am here to perhaps encounter just that. I am open to new truths as presented and to my current belief system and method proven wrong. I hope everyone else here is too otherwise thier minds are closed and made up.
I did not say I’m an athiest. It’s like this…. I can’t prove JC/god did/does currently not exist and that the bible is false. Much like I cannot (people, say what you will I’m not arguing this point) prove Santa Claus does not exist, but I’m pretty darn sure. Thus, If I’m intellectually honest with myself, unable to %100 percent discount that which the believer see true no matter how insane, evil, contradictory, etc…I think it is, I must align myself with Agnosticism and move forth with an open mind. However I will adress the issues I see them.
Loved the rest of your comments. Hey I think Mayhem is accusing me of being a false handle by the supposed owner named chris-lord. I’m an animal services officer in the Sierras…Mayhem is funny if not offensive. Not to say I or anyone else can’t be at times but I try not to level direct personal attacks although sometimes my discipline fails spectacularly.
” I do love you, unconditionally, but i’m all about the tough love so buck up for the suds friend or step aside.”
Something about that statement rings contradictory.
Walter Part II,
Just a little more about me for future conversations as that you were kind enough to give your info:
In general I believe talk is cheap and I live my life as good as I can, doing as much good as I can. If actions matter more than words and there is some judgemental force whatever the belief, then I believe I’m good. If this is all there is, which I highly, highly doubt, not existing prior to this (at least to what I can remember) did not bother me prior to being here and I don’t believe it will after either.
As for performing law enforcement I use the tennis raquest analogy. If the vertical strings are the letter of the law and the horizontal ones the spirit, it’s my job to put the ball (citizen) on the sweet spot of the raquet. The spirit of the law is so often overlooked. You should see the looks I get sporting my “We the People” and “Real Patriots Question Authority” morale patches. Very funny stuff.
Or even hypocritical at face value, CrowPie, however the condition is not required to be met by the other party. See the difference? I’m not saying “I will love you if…” therefore the condition is of no effect to the statement. To be contradictory there would need to be, at the very least, an implication for the withdrawal of love. Yes?
CrowPie!…or should I say “not Buckley Jr.”
(remember it’s a compliment)…What is up? How have you been?
I’ve been getting kicks watching you go at some of the more scandelous elements here since our last interaction.
Mayhem,
“but, I’m all about tough love” which translates too….I’ll do my best to reduce, ridicule, and demoralize if possible to get my point across…….just as long as I win. And if you don’t like it…too F’nin’ bad for you…..the end justifies the means……
That’s not love.
Haystack,
Welcome back…….BTW….you stepped in a yellow jackets nest with this subject. Best to stay calm….adrenaline and sweat will only make the swarm worse.
BTW….are you prepared to meet your maker in case you are allergic?
On the one hand, my friend, you say…
“Hey, if you want to get down and dirty about that bible of yours we can do that.” “Let me guess, only applies within the curch…sigh.” “Or if you wish we can agree to disagree and call it a game.” “Serious Question – The Omnipotence Paradox.” “Also check out the Epic of Gilgamesh.” “Or investigate how the tale of Noah’s flood is a take on a past pole shift”
… and on the other you say…
“I’ll sign off and give you the last word as you probably feel like you need it”.
… and that is completely unfair, of you, given i am commanded to provide a reasoned answer for the hope in me. Hasn’t it already been said that we can’t have it both ways? Now then: i see that you feel put upon and seek victim status from your own words, Haystack_Needle. That’s where in the %^&*!!! i get it from. Here; i’ve grouped them under the various headings for clarity…
Feeling put upon:
“Which side do you think has the greater numbers here”
“My bad to expect that of your and Walters type”
“I don’t need you playing teacher”
Demanding mercy:
“I guess just hoping your fellow man would have a little understanding is to much to ask”
“I have to care for my newly epileptic dog. Or is that not a good enough “time reason””
“We work with the time given us and we all have different responsibilities”
“You can’t blame me for doing the ol’ paste job”
“I don’t have alot of time so I’m gonna be lazy about this”
Victimization:
“it looks like Walter has gone off to feed and water his high horse”
“We all have our stuff..just recognize is all I’m saying”
“When someone uses multiple paragraphs to legitimize a one or two sentance phrase what do you think”
“I’ll sign off and give you the last word as you probably feel like you need it”
Projection:
“Total hit and run on our comment line which I’m sure jives with the whole respect thing he was preaching”
“as some vicious personal attack”
“now that that part of the argument has been blown out of the water”
“It’s funny to see believers backed into a corner on their faith”
“Resembles a train wreck and the watching of clowns pile into a car at the circus”
“When dealing with believers I’m reminded of every scene from Idiocracy”
… Hmm?
Does it, indeed, translate as that, CrowPie? Nice of you to tell me what i’m thinking. So then: should i scold a child for trying to put a fork in the electrical socket, or not?
CrowPie,
Fortunately not allergic. On point about the stepping in the nest but thats what I get for running up to it and hitting it with a stick. Now if you were talking about a spiders nest I’d be running for the hills screaming like a little girl. Can you guess my phobia?
As for my maker I’m fine as long as it’s not the spider queen from south park or anything arachnid oriented. Otherwise I’m toast.
So yeah, Hayseed, inconsistencies and contradictions are merely the most common attack on the Bible and i’ll mention more of them as i go. Did you know that The-Thinking-Atheist does reveal a small handful of, apparent, problems that i can not fully explain? Oh yes indeed; if you had addressed each example, in turn, you would have seen me accept what i do not or cannot know.
I’m picking you’ve not encountered believers such as you’ve run into here. Mostly you would’ve expected, by now, to have been damned to hell and/or had obsequious blessings bestowed upon you. Well that’s roughly how you tell the difference between christians and believers and now you know. That and believers won’t tell you what the Bible means only what it says.
May i presume you’ve read a copy, even once? If not just let me know anytime you would like references because i otherwise paraphrase, a lot. And if so then you’ll be able to follow me as i make a point that, i hope, is one of those things that make you go hmm. You see; i’m guessing you won’t stand for me reading too much of the Bible out loud.
By ignoring context and or twisting words the Bible can be made to say damned near anything and we won’t even start on the additions or subtractions. In this debate it was argued the Bible teaches that women are “second class citizens” when the reality is it says no such thing. Sure it is made clear where women are expected to hold their tongue, in public, but does this preclude her giving hubby a damn good piece of her mind when they’re home? By today’s standards it is considered Sexist but God is not bound to our feeble machinations.
Similarly; it is entirely possible to make the Bible appear to command against judging, the world, but only if a comma is the new full stop. They’ll shout “THOU SHALT NOT JUDGE” and completely ignore “lest ye be judged”. Warnings are the new Commandment? I know black-is-the-new-black but i’m certain we’re afforded no such licence with The Word.
Some folk think they will be raptured out of the tribulation and boy are they going to feel let down when it doesn’t happen. Others think Paul a liar and would have half the New Testament torn from the book. Many hate the idea of a Loving God who could torment His Creation for eternity when He only promises the second death, by fire. Simply, if you can call being thrown into a lake of fire simple, gone as if you never were. A few have even been offered gold bullion if it could be proven the Bible is plagiarized Paganism, Mithraism, Mysticism or Mythology and, finally, there’s those that think a golden calf is God.
Do you know where to look for God, Haystack, and might i suggest knowing the answer is about the only thing keeping you from belief? You did mention looking up but you won’t find Him there. The Apostle Paul tells us the answer, several times, just as Jeremiah did before him…
“This is the covenant I will make with them after that time. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”
… look within, honest thinker, before trying to deny our Creator.
Crow Pt II,
It’s funny, in an earlier comment here I was wishing you were around cause you have a sense of humor.
Mayhem,
” Nice of you to tell me what i’m thinking. So then: should i scold a child for trying to put a fork in the electrical socket, or not?”
It may not be what you THINK……but it is indeed how you often behave.
It’s why I stopped commenting with Mayhem on this story. Spot on Crow.
Haystack_
I still have a sense of humor. But I do consider these guys my friends. (But me and Mayhem have a habit of online disagreements) It’s just what we do.
See we are all Strong in The Faith and we stand together in that….no matter what else we may disagree on. These guys are pretty tough on everyone…..even each other…..you can’t expect that they’d go easy on YOU?
Tough?
On everyone?
Moi?
I would not want them to. I’m not down on people persitantly telling me how I think which occurs often here. It’s usually the thing that make me quit a conversation. I’m occasionally guilty of it here and there but I’m cognizant of it and seek to limit mental slippages. Unless a really, REALLY AWSOME zinger comes to mind and I just can’t help myself. Self improvement is way hard sometimes
I hear ya Crow and per our last discussion I think we have a good deal of respect and hearty disagreement between us. Game recognizes game.
Crow and the Believers JLA +1
I’m not saying your friends are sidekicks…or even worse…aquaman. No disrespect fellows.
Not you Walter….Your a sweetheart, angel, teddy bear.
Of course now this means I have to think of a nifty name for you three. Humm this will be a fun one and I’ll be respectful. The Triumvirate?…No to authoratative. I’m on it
That’s it…Sweetheart, Angel, Teddy Bear!
The SAT Crew. Now that reeks of intelligence. And Teddy Bear you know who you are
Hey Walter for the sake of creative integrity may I ask if anyone uses “DG IT! WALTER!” in the best dude voice they can here. If not I’d like to call dibs as that it appears it will be useful in the future.
I don’t roll on Shabbos?
Anyone besides CrowPie ever calls me Teddy Bear gets to look down the bidniss end of an Automatic Colt Pistol.
Now mark it zero.
HEY, TEDDY BEAR!
Come find me, if you can, MORON BLOW HARD!!!!
“Atheists are angry with god?”
That is why they do not believe?
What a shallow man you are!
They do not know what you are even talking about.
An imaginary fellow who simply does not exist in our lives.
At all, in this reality. Except you are obsessed with knowing god.
You are a Pompous idiot, Walter.
You are not that smart to know what other people think.
You cannot read their minds.
You do not have ESP, or you would not believe in god.
You do not have an eternal memory.
You think you just came into existence when you were born here on earth?
Well, foolish one Walter, you are wrong.
I come from another country with no exposure at all to your religion.
I do not know what you are talking about when you blabber on and on about god, like you know this guy!
And, you do not know this guy god at all.
You read about him, what other men like you wrote.
You think you do, only. You rationalize others’ behavior to fit your god spin story.
It is all in your mind only.
You should go work for the zionist spinners at FOX Network News.
You Lie on a Major League scale, and with a straight face.
Are you a trained zionist, Walter?
And, you are an intellectual bully who forces yourself on others.
Even Christian people like you.
You are rude to all.
You are pompous, although you are not smart.
You are just a trained puppy dog that can read one book.
And just fascinate your constant entourage with you on BIN. at all times.
Mayhem, CrowPie, am123, these others are always with you, Walter.
Makes me think you post notes of praise to yourself.
Because you do.
Your Superiority Complex Psychosis is very, very deep and ingrained in your mind.
You do need therapy.
Your family must not like you either.
You do not seem to spend much time with them.
Are you divorcing your wife?
You are a bad person, whether you know god or not, Walter.
You are a BULLY boy (from NJ) for god!!
Walter, you are very odd.
In real life, I would not let you around me at all.
But, here on BIN, I am safe to write to a true maniac like you, Walter, who thinks he is powerful because of his bizarre obsession with his mind god.
Walter I’m gonna be laughing all night long at that one. Probably gonna cost me sleep as my fiancee asks in bed “what are you laughing at honey?”…How do I explain? Oh, well back to the drawing board for a name
“Anyone besides CrowPie ever calls me Teddy Bear gets to look down the bidniss end of an Automatic Colt Pistol.” WALTER.
… Sam Elliot from – We Were Soldiers?
Only quoting other boys, I see, BOYS!
All boys!
All the time!
Christi-homo-anity is that the religion Mayhem and Walter practice?
I can visualize a CrowPie sandwich because she is a he, also.
Hale, Hale, the BIN christo-MALE Gang’s all here!
What movie was that from you brilliant mayhem, knower of all that is insignificant.
Boy, Walter, mayhem, CrowPie, am123, they sure all can cut & paste plus quote male movie stars, eh?
WOW.
Are they smart, and very normal, eh?
HAHAHAHAHA!
Truly weidos, if they were separate people, but, alas, there is only One male doing all that on this page.
And, he thinks he is actually smart in doing it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA1
He is mad, and he is jed.
What’s with the new face ‘Mellow Dude?’
Did you lose the old one?
Here is a movie quote for you and a girl said it…but you should have kept it in mind…..
“With my face hanging out all the time…it’s a wonder I haven’t been knocked out yet, Boss!”
Now…can you guess what movie that quote came from?
Here’s my guess, CrowPie — Girlfight (2000): Michelle Rodriguez as Diana Guzman.
Mayhem,
“Your answer, while elegant, is ultimately incorrect.” A Beautiful Mind
Room With a View.
“I have never met a violent christian, but I have met plenty of violent non christians.”
Not much one for history books, are you, have a look at the prison inmate statistics ‘population per religious belief’. By far the biggest group are Christians, followed by Muslims. Per population percent, they are over represented in jails. Non believers are under represented per percentage of population. So the complete opposite of your claim is true, the religious believe they do not have to be law abiding, that laws do not apply to themselves.
“.and people just can’t handle the truth…especially about themselves.!”
Couldn’t agree more, especially on the religious about themselves… See no evil, hear no evil, slander everyone else to distract from their own evil.
Yes, Pix, this is a Homo cult for the white-skinned male mangod, here on BIN.
The fable itself reads to make him, Jesus, look like a Homosexual.
Also, it psychologically conditions believers to accept as normal behavior a single man gaining access to the household and the children.
To evaluate them, and look for weaker children.
Very convenient to get to know them all when they come to confess their sins to the all male clergy on a regular basis.
And, as Lord wrote above, and am123 just cared to not discuss the reality of Christianity and it’s role over 1,600+ years of preparing children of both sexes for pedophile practices to be carried out on them. Both indulging themselves and selling the children to rich patrons.
For Sex.
I see you Fundies as ‘child molester’ enablers, Walter.
Psychological methodology practicing “child mental molesters”! That is Christianity in a nutshell, Walter!
THE MAKERS of pedophiles, Walter, right through child hood, are christo-CREEP ALL MALE Clergy”and educators!
Your kind’s excuse to this point of time of “Gaining Access” to the children around you in your area.
AND, ALWAYS keeping them totally ignorant about ‘human sexuality”!
ALWAYS!
NEVER INCLUDED in the child’s scholarly “curriculum!
Great way to cultivate ‘deviant’ sexual behavior when the VICTIM does not even know that the sexual acts perpetrated on him or her IS deviant!!!!!
BY ALL MALES. That is who runs these 3 “religions’, Walter!!!!!!!
That “cares” and “loves” me!
Oh, and the underlying theme of Lord’s evaluation (above) of the Christian religion is that the white-skinned male mangod fable figure named Jesus, really acted homosexual all the way, as written in the Greatest FABLE ever concocted by men!
CrowPie thinks i reduce, ridicule and demoralize in order to win and that the end justifies my means. Well that’s a bit rich coming from someone who speaks to others like this…
“You really are retarded. You should wear a helmet.” CrowPie
/obama/2015/03/proof-obama-is-a-homosexual-anti-american-traitor-terrorist-2471240.html#comment_257770
… hmm?
JanCute very confused about Mayhem.
It is like this twerp has two entirely different personalities.
This not happen in China.
Only here in your very CRAZY country!
What a bunch of mindless cowardly pusaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays you ameriiiSCUM REALLY ARE!!!!!!
That OK.
China come soon, and get rid of the crazy Mayhems of your country.
Mayhem all better once he go away to re-education camp for a few years.
It work very, very, well in China.
NO white-skinned mangod “religion” there, at all!
And, no mass insanity, either.
We will save you, ameriiiSCUMS!
How can you be confused Chris?
One is actually mayhem
the other is you.