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“IF” Jesus abolished the LAW -- then --what is the reason for the coming horrendous "Time of the End" ?

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“IF” Jesus abolished the LAW — then –what is the reason for the coming horrendous “Time of the End” ?

 

 

 

 

What could possible be the reason God is about to punish all the nations of Israel and all the gentile nations as well in HIS GREAT WRATH and FURY if there were no laws for them to transgress ??

 

Many are expecting “THE TIME OF THE END” to begin soon — a horrific — “TIME — like no other time — EVER ! ”

 

WHY?

 

Because the world will not accept “Jesus into their hearts” ???

 

Really??

 

Show us where that is written and what that even means ???

Jesus wants to dwell in your heart muscle?? – A muscle that simply pumps blood??

 

OR

 

Is the Father in HIS GREAT WRATH and FURY bringing destruction upon the entire earth

 

Because

 

“ALL” refuse to obey the voice of our GOD?

 

Which IS IT ?

 

So the 2000 year old question yet remains;

 

Did Jesus Christ end the Old Covenant’s contractual obligation of obeying GOD’s 10 Commandments, Statutes and Judgments with the New Covenant?

 

 

Have you proven this one way or the other to yourself?

 

Many logical questions will be put forth for the purpose of causing the readers to desire the proof.

 

The questions will raise reasonable and logical concerns regarding the soundness of so called Christian doctrines.

 

Faith in our Father and His Son is – NOT– BLIND FAITH – it is “trust” in the WORD of GOD founded on the solid foundation of a just and righteous LAW from which GOD can not vary.

 

Would “you” follow any god that changed his mind as often as you change your clothes? Some do.

 

One day you are put to death for not resting on the Sabbath and the next day it is OK to do what ever on the Sabbath??

 

God could then change his mind concerning your salvation just as quick – “IF” HIS WORD can not be trusted.

 

IF – Christ ‘had’ abolish the Law i.e. the Torah then there must be another reason why God is soon to punish the entire earth in — GREAT WRATH and FURY as Jesus Christ and God’s prophets warned us over and over and over.

 

Determining the current status of GOD’s LAW using THE WORD of GOD and God’s logic can settle that age old question .

 

Were the 10 Commandments – “THE” problem – “THE” mistake – that “forced” Christ to come to earth, as many believe, and replace the Old Covenant with the New and thus, as many accept as truth: abolish that “burdensome harsh LAW” which they firmly believe must be THE CAUSE of all man’s problems?

 

IS “man” the problem or is God’s Law THE PROBLEM??

 

Did God’s Holy Law block man from eternal life or is man’s carnal human nature the problem?

 

Are we now – “under” –the Doctrine of “Grace” — no longer – “under’ – the Law and — thus – no longer “under” or subject to God’s Law – and — therefore no longer — subject to — the AUTHORITY OF ALMIGHTY GOD ?

 

 

Did Christ come to USURP His Father’s authority, to drastically change everything HIS Father had put in place?

 

 

The above are –ALL — legitimate and logical questions created by the confusing doctrines held by the 40,000 “flavors” of so called christanity.

 

 

Since the death of Jesus Christ God’s Law has been a cause of endless controversy and fighting.

 

Since Jesus Christ walked this earth 2000 years ago the Law of Moses has been at the center of an on going controversy. When grace came did grace remove the obligation to obey the law? Is the only thing we must now do is– “Just Believe”?

 

The term “not Under the Law” is used to insinuate we are no longer “under” or subject to the authority of God — or — God’s Holy LAW .

 

When Jesus Christ came to earth to confirm that better Spiritual Covenant seven years was allotted for doing so, did Christ remove that old harsh Law of the Father and replaced it with “The Law of love”?

 

Was that first contract cancelled at the Stake or it still legally binding?

 

Remember Christ was cut off at midweek, after only 3 ½ years of confirming the Covenant. Was the “New Covenant” confirmed or Must Christ complete the confirmation for 3 ½ more years after His return?

 

The Word of God clearly teaches salvation is an unearned “gift” and none are “saved” by works or by the keeping of God’s Holy Law.

 

If a person obeys God’s Law are they guilty of trying to earn salvation?

 

Is obeying the Law — a sin ?   Some even teach we must — repent — of keeping the Law????

 

To settle the above questions we must allow the Word of God to explain the Word of God employing God’s gift of logic in the process.

 

Are we not to prove all things, if not by sound logic — HOW? By Illogic — by our emotions???

 

Determining the purpose of God’s Law which is in that first Contract and if that LAW of God existed long before the earth was made will be addressed in this study.

 

As to the pre existence of GOD’s LAW we must go back to before ‘the beginning’, before the earth was created.

 

It is not at all difficult to logically and factually prove God’s LAW existed before the creation of the earth:

 

Jesus Christ tells us Satan was a liar from the beginning: for God to be able to call Satan a liar, there must exist before the creation of the earth, a law defining what a lie — “IS” — a law classifying lying as A SIN.

 

Jesus also tells us Satan was a murderer from the beginning; John 8: 44.

 

For Satan to be a liar and a murderer from the beginnging as he is, there had to be a law against lying and murder even before the foundation of the earth was laid — as the angels did existed at the laying of earths foundation –They shouted for joy at the laying of the foundations.

 

The fact Satan is a liar and a murderer should be sufficient to prove two commandments existed and thus sin existed before creation of the earth.

 

Ask yourself this logical question; would God create 100’s of millions of Angels each allowed by God to chose for themselves whether to obey God or to follow whatever they alone determined to be right or wrong? Add to that some angels were created possessing great power and intellect which some used to wage war against God.

 

Would ‘you’ yourself not give angels laws to guide their behavior: laws they must abide by from day one or would you just let them run amuck with no guide lines, no rules, no law?

 

Would you not first explain right from wrong and instruct the angels concerning the consequence of their actions?? If not; we must then assume you would not teach your children right from wrong, nor give them directions on how to live a successful life, you would just let them run wild.

 

It is also not at all difficult to prove the Law of God was in place on earth in the days of Adam and Abraham long before it was included in the contract between the children of Israel and God.

 

Here is one example; in Genesis 20: 6 God prevented Abimelech king of Gerar from “sinning” - against – God by taking Sarah as his wife or concubine thus committing Adultery!

 

1 John 3: 4 defines SIN as transgression of the Law; adultery is a sin according to God’s Law and is the 7th of the 10 Commandments.

 

And in Genesis 4 concerning Cain and Abel we read; “ If thou doeth well shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, — “SIN” — lieth at the door”. While Adam and Eve were still living SIN existed. Sin is defined as transgression of THE LAW. 1 John 3: 4

 

Or we can by quoting Genesis 26: 5 prove Abraham kept the LAW, Commandments and Statutes of God.

 

Genesis 26: 5

 

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

NOT the “Jews” commandments, statures and law but GOD’s as the Jews did not even exist until Judah the son of Jacob was born.

 

Before the first Covenant/Contract was even agreed to Exodus 16: 28 states;

 

28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep —– “my” —- commandments and —- “my” — laws (#8451 Torah)?

 

The 10 Commandments do not “belong’ to the Jews, the Commandments are NOT JEWISH – they ARE GOD’S Commandments.

 

The 4th Commandment begins with the words – “Remember the Sabbath”, the Sabbath was the 7th creation of creation week: in captivity for 430 years Israel had lost knowledge of all the Laws of God including the Sabbath.

 

The above should be sufficient for a logical person to conclude the Law and sin had to exist from the beginning and enough scriptural evidence to conclude the Covenant God made with the children of Israel included an already existing LAW as a integral part of that contract.

 

There is a mountain of proof in God’s Word if you will just look for it.

 

Why was God’s Holy Law “the consideration” ; the contractual duty of the children of Israel and the foundation of the Old Covenant?

 

The first Covenant (old) God made with the children of Israel is found in Leviticus 26: 1 -46.

 

In verse 2 God list the contractual duties of the contract i.e. the “consideration’ due from Israel.

 

2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.

3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and “dothem;

4Then I will give you rain in due season, etc.

46 These [are] the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

What was God’s purpose with this contract and HIS Law? First a little back ground, God chose Abraham then his son Isaac and Isaac’s son Jacob to begin a special people, HIS Chosen people: God’s Elect, a Holy Nation.

 

God’s plan is to use His Chosen people to bring the whole world into living God’s perfect orderly and “lawful” WAY of life and God’s “WAY” is NOT a religion.

 

God’s Chosen people were to set the example, the standard if you will for all non-Israelite nations to follow and God’s purpose will finally be fulfilled during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on earth.

 

Deuteronomy 7

6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

 

Isaiah 49

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be – my — salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

GOD ELECT, the Children of Israel, agreed to a contract requiring them to live by the 10 Commandments, Statutes and Judgments i.e. God’s WAY as found in the Torah and by obeying God’s WAY proving to the world God’s WAY produces peace, prosperity, happiness, joy Etc.

 

By the way; When the Children of Israel entered the Promised Land all they had was the TORAH; i.e the 5 Books of Moses called the LAW, the balance of what is called “the Old Testament” was written over the next 1500 or so years.

 

In Exodus 19: 5, 6 God said if you will obey Me and if you will keep My Covenant then you shall be a peculiar treasure above all people.

 

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine:

 

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

God offered the 12 Tribes of Jacob, renamed Israel, the position of being the only people on earth God would bless, protect and work through to bring all mankind into God’s perfect WAY of life.

 

The first Covenant/contract is condensed into one simple sentence in Deuteronomy 4: 13,

 

13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

 

And then after all of the above —so called Christianity expect us to believe GOD CHANGED HIS MIND AND NAILED THE COVENANT AND GOD’S HOLY LAW TO THE STAKE OF CHRIST- ‘

 

“Oh well that law and contract did not work out so let’s try something else’ —

IS THAT WHAT YOUR “god “ said ?

 

Not my GOD! My Father KEEPS HIS WORD and HIS COVENANTS FOR EVER.

When MY FATHER begins a work — HE FINISHES IT AND IT IS PERFECT.

 

The 10 Commandments are the – foundation – of the Old and the New Covenants God made with HIS people ISRAEL and they were written not by Moses — but by GOD’s own finger in STONE and those two stones are kept under GOD’s Throne in the Arc of the Covenant.

 

The contractual duty i.e the “consideration” of the children of Israel was simply to obey God’s Law. With out a consideration no contract is valid or enforceable –ask any attorney.

 

To PROVE the importance God places in the 10 Commandments, the 2 table of stone were placed in the most HOLY Place on earth.

 

The 10 Commandments of God are – SO HOLY – they were written by the finger of God on two tablets of Stone which have been placed in the ARK of the Covenant and kept under the Mercy Seat which is the Throne of God the Father and the Throne of God is – in – the HOLY of HOLIES.

 

And by the way; Moses also placed the Torah in that Arc as well. Deuteronomy 31: 26. Do you not then think the Torah is HOLY to God?

 

To believe as most do that Christ voided or ended the HOLY Law one must then believe Christ went into the Holy of Holies, removed the Holy Law from the Ark of the Covenant which is under the Mercy Seat, took it from the Holy of Holies and nailed the HOLY Law written on two tables of stone to His stake.

 

How does that act end the Law? And The Law — by this satanic line of thought — could no longer be Holy nor represent God the Father’s Holy “WAY” as it has since before creation.

 

The Ark of the Covenant Moses built was a physical copy of the heavenly Arc and the Ark Moses built holds the two Tables of Testimony i.e. the two stones on which the Commandment are written are the foundation of the CovenantS of GOD. See verse 13 above.

 

Revelation 11: 19 states when the 7th Trumpet sounds heaven opens and the heavenly Ark of the Covenant will be seen in God’s Temple in heaven. That is the TEMPLE of GOD the FATHER and in that Ark in God’s Temple in the Third Heaven, the two Tables of Testimony and GOD’s Torah are kept.

 

Please show us scriptures clearly stating the 10 Commandments written on 2 tables of stone by the finger of GOD have been permanently removed from the heavenly ARC of the COVENANT that is kept in the Holy of HOLIES in the 3rd heaven; GOD the Father Throne in heaven.

 

Note to clarify; what Moses placed in the physical Arc were physical copies of the Spiritual.

 

That scripture can not be found — it ain’t in the WORD of GOD.

 

Remember also, Jesus Christ now stands on the right side of that Mercy Seat which is the Throne of God the Father in the third heaven.

 

The term; “Two Tables of Testimony” , used just above, what is that refering to??

Exodus 31

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of — “testimony”, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

This “Testimony” is hated by Satan and by mankind as it convicts them of SIN.

 

In a trial, witnesses give their testimony against the accused: the two tables of Testimony are the witnesses against mankind and by that “Testimony”, by that Law written in STONE — mankind is convicted of sin and are all are “UNDER” the sentence of death.

 

The Torah teaches a person can only be put to death by the testimony of two or more witnesses thus TWO TABLES OF STONE, TWO WITNESSES.

 

Mankind has hated the Holy Righteous Law of God from the beginning and today God’s Law is viewed as an evil “curse” meant to be a harsh and horrible burden. Satan has been very busy and very proficient at deceiving all nations.

 

How is it — the entire world does not understand or at the least so call Christianity that The Old and the New Covenants are based, predicated and founded upon the TEN COMMANDMENTS: THE 10 HOLY ETERNAL LAWS of GOD?

 

10 Laws that define and reveal to mankind that Holy, Righteous and Perfect Divine Nature/Character of GOD.

 

Israel’s only contractual obligation was to keep, to DO the Commandments, Statutes and Judgments . If Israel had kept the Commandments God would then have performed His obligations under the Covenant.

 

A contract obligates both parties to perform mutually agreed upon obligations or duties. If one party refuses to perform or is unable to perform as per contract, the contract is then breached and the other party can sue for specific performance. Interesting side note: merica at it beginning incorporated into its law the same contract law God used in writing both the Old and the New Covenants.

 

In verse 14 of Deut: 4 Moses said God commanded him to also teach God’s Statutes and Judgments; the Statutes are the 10 Commandments broken down into fine detail and the Judgments are how transgressions are adjudicated.

 

The sacrificial law was added later because of sin and was never a part of the covenant;

 

Jeremiah 7: 22

22 For I spake –“’not””— unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

 

The sacrificial law is in the Torah but was never a part of that First Contract/Covenant.

 

Without God’s Law DEFINING SIN there can be no such thing as sin — thus to “add” 10 Commandments because of sin – is impossible — GOD’s LAW –codifies SIN, – reveals what SIN IS.

 

How can there be – SIN – without the existence of what defines what SIN IS ?

 

It is surprising how many can not even grasp the simple fact that if the word SIN were not specifically described and codified by God in to 10 rules– sin would or could not exist.

 

Paul clearly understood this FACT:

 

Romans 7:

7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, —- but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, —- Thou shalt not covet.

 

Unless the 10 Commandment had specifically stated “LUST is a SIN”, Paul could not have known LUST is a SIN.

 

It is mind boggling none seem to grasps verse 7 !

 

God’s  Contractual obligations and duties are listed in Leviticus 26. If Israel would live by the Commandments, Statutes and judgments God would deliver all of the physical blessing listed in verse 4 – 12. It is that simple; and

 

Notice; no eternal life was promised, no mercy, no forgiveness was ever included:

 

Obeying the Law in that first Covenant resulted in “only” physical blessings.

 

KEEPING OF THE LAW – NEVER — offered salvation, — NEVER — offered eternal life – NEVER— made a single person Righteous. – and NEVER offered to anyone God’s Spirit !

 

When a person accuses me of earning salvation and of being “justified” by keeping the Law my response; “how can starting to keep God’s Law after sinning big time for 30 years justify or forgive 30 years of sin??”

 

Because of my first thirty 30 years of life I was already “under” the sentence of death – keeping the Law for the next 50 years can never “justify” the first 30!

 

ONLY the Blood of Jesus Christ can remove the penalty of sin and JUSTIFY ME!

 

Obeying the LAW of my Master is my “duty” to my MASTER.

 

 

Then God said if they did not honor the contract by obeying the Law as they agreed to do, He would punish them. Verses 14 – 39 in Leviticus 26 list the punishments allowed according to contract terms.

 

Yes the punishments are very severe. God is allowed under contract terms to punish Israel over 4 periods of punishment each lasting 7 years for a total of 28 years. At any time during any of the first 3 periods (7 years each) of punishment/judgment the children of Israel could repent and the punishment would end.

 

During the first 3 periods of 7 years of judgment/punishment (total of 21 years), at any point, if the leaders of Israel repented the afflictions stopped – but once that final 4th period began the opportunity for repentance was over.

 

During the 4th and final 7 years God brings total destruction upon the nations of Israel and sends the remnant into captivity.

 

That 4th period of 7 years is what is called the time of the end and during that 4th period of punishment God walks contrary to the nations of Israel “ IN WRATH ”.

 

A short recap;

God chose one man, Abraham, to begin His Chosen People and at the time of Moses God made a contract with the children of Israel, the seed of Abraham, His chosen people. Israel’s only duty as per the Covenant/contract was to obey an existing body of Law now called the Torah which includes the 10 Commandments. If they had obeyed God’s laws God was obligated to shower the children of Israel with a multitude of physical blessings. Those blessings i.e. “contractual promises” are listed in verses 4 – 13

 

Note: The whole body of LAW is called the Torah which is the 5 books of Moses and Moses wrote down in those 5 books the all the words of God he heard spoken to him by the mouth of GOD while on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights.

 

The children of Israel would and could not obey and were punished over and over and finally were sent into captivity: first the House of Israel and 130 years later the House of Judah were sent into captivity for their transgresses of God’s Law and for not living up to the Contract.

 

Many died and all suffered for not obeying God Holy Law — but now according to many so called christians, — magically, — God had a drastic change of mind: this change of mind is called by some ; “dispensationalism” and all up until the death of Christ suffered for no reason because God changed His mind about the need for LAW? Really ????? MY FATHER my GOD CHANGES NOT !!!

 

The LAW is a Spiritual HOLY law that God included only as a physical law for a physical people with the Old physical Covenant. The Chosen People could never physically keep God’s Law and after repeated punishment God finally sent them into physical captivity for the 2nd time.

The whole House of Israel, all the nations of Israel are soon to be punished for the third time and sent back into physical captivity for the third and final time, unaware Jesus Christ will free them once more from captivity at His return.

 

When Jesus Christ came to earth as a physical man of flesh He came to ‘fill to the full’ or ‘completed’ the Law by raising it to the Spiritual level: Christ restored the LAW i.e. Completed the Law, it is now a Spiritual Law. The Law remains a physical law for God’s physical people but now filled to the full it IS a spiritual Law for those in whom the Holy Spirit of the Father dwells.

 

God’s Law is now a Spiritual Law for His converted Saints but remains as a physical law for His physical people Israel: His elect. Now that Law filled to the full is even more impossible for physical carnal men to obey. A carnal man may be able to refrain from murder but not from hating in his mind. He may be able to constrain himself from adultery but not from lusting in his mind.

 

Obeying the Holy Law of God in the Spirit can only take place if the Spirit of the Father is dwelling in a person and by that Spirit working in that person a change of nature begins to take place and by HIS ONE Spirit, God will begin to create HIS Holy Righteous Perfect Divine Nature in that person by cutting away our carnal human nature i.e. The circumcision without hands.

 

Next the New Covenant: The Spiritual Covenant

 

What is that New Covenant or contract that Christ brought with Him; that new and better contact for His Church the “Ecclesia” of God and what makes it ” better” ?

 

Will we find it is better because that harsh LAW was removed?

 

In Hebrews 8 Paul clearly states the reason the First Covenant was breached was due to the fact that Israel could not keep their side of the agreement; —the children of Israel breached the contract — not God. The children of Israel found it impossible to obey; the carnal human nature they inherited from Adam made it impossible for them obey God.

 

the contract was not flawed, it was an honest and fair legal agreement but the children of Israel were simply incapable of living up to their part of the agreement. Israelite‘s were an unconverted physical people unable to control themselves.

 

One can make that very same assessment to day only more so, all the nations of Israel are out of control as they lust after sex, drugs, money, power, pleasure and fame. The cup of our iniquity has run over to the extreme.

 

Hebrews 8

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediatorof a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The NEW Covenant simply contains –BETTER PROMISES — and –NOT the removal of God’s Holy LAW !!

Only the Promises changed — nothing else changed!!

7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Both Covenants/contract are only with the House of Israel and the House of Judah and not even one other small nation is included, only the Chosen People of GOD.

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; —- becausetheycontinued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not,saith the Lord.

10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (Judah is not included) after those days, saith the Lord; —- I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Paul in verses 8 – 10 is quoting Jeremiah 31: 31 -34.

Here in verse 10 is the statement showing the reasons the new contract is better.

Here is the huge difference with the New Covenant:

God is promising to — change — “HIS PEOPLE’s nature NOT the LAW.

By placing HIS HOLY LAW in our minds and writing that LAW in our “hearts” what does this accomplish???

A 180 degree Change of Nature; a CONVERSION OF OUR NATURE !

This is not a “new” LAW — this is the “OLD” 10 Commandments and actually the Torah, in which the Commandments are written, that is put in our minds and in our natures i.e. hearts.. Hearts pump blood, our natures are the core of our being and OUR problems.

In verse 33 the word “Law” is the Hebrew word TORAH.

The Law is not the problem: The Law was never the problem it was always the people – and the problem remains exactly the same today.

The WHOLE PROBLEM, the entire problem with the first contract: — the proven fact physical unconverted people can never obey the Law. A fact that remains true today!

Question:

What is being converted?? Many speak of “their conversion” . Just what – IS – being converted ?

Answers:

We are being converted from our inherited carnal human nature over to God’s Holy Righteous Divine Nature.

con·vert

verb

past tense: converted; past participle: converted

kənˈvərt/

  1. 1. cause to change in form, character, or function.”production processes that converted raw material into useful forms”

synonyms:

change, turn, transform, metamorphose, transfigure, transmute;

 

Please read verse 10 once more; through the prophet Jeremiah and then through Paul, God is not at all stating when the New Covenant is written – “the LAW will – NOT- be included” – or the Law will be abolished —–NO —-

the only change is God’s LAWS can now be put into us, in our hearts and minds i.e. in our natures, –the Torah is to become our nature.

If, as the vast majority of so called Christians believe, Christ came to nail the Law to His cross stake —- what then is the point of putting that very same Law in our natures?

That belief make not one bit of sense, why put the Law in the trash can and THEN in us as our nature?? Please explain that one to us.

What Paul is quoting is FROM the Old Testament, not the New and the only Law in the Old is the HOLY Torah. Ask any Jew.

That very LAW Christ supposedly came to abolish —-God by His Spirit is going to put it in our minds? What???

Wait – Wait !!! I was told for certain that horrible Law was abolished and was not in the New Covenant — I was told it was a harsh oppressive burdensome law? How can this be true???

If it is harsh and burdensome —why put it in us?? Using confusing language and by twisting scripture many have spiritualized God’s purposes into unknowable mysteries. And you ain’t seen nothing yet, mass confusion within so called christianity is just getting started.

David a man after God’s own heart (nature) states the LAW of God is truth and righteousness, I for one want Truth and Righteousness to be IN ME. If Christ were to take the Law away and dump it in the trash can how can God the Father then place by His Spirit truth and righteousness in me??

Many have no ability or desire to use logic even though God created logic for His called out ones to use in PROVE all Things.

Under the terms of the New Covenant, by the pouring out of the Father’s – ONE – Spirit from Heaven on that First Feast of Firstfruits (Pentecost) 50 days after the resurrection of Christ – God the Father begin to change to convert the carnal nature of His people.

The HOLY Spirit of the Father dwelling in a person begins to convert and to form that person’s nature into the Divine HOLY Righteous Perfect Nature of GOD the Father.

How does God accomplish this conversion? Remember we are told to repent, be baptized and by the laying on of Hands receive the Holy Spirit of God.

When the Holy Spirit is placed in a person by the laying on of hands , that act is the implanting of that Holy Divine ‘Seed’ of GOD which begins replace your carnal nature with HIS Divine Nature. The Spirit of God the Father ‘if you will’ to use a physical comparison is His Spirit DNA. It is God the Father – “A SPIRIT” – dwelling IN us by that ONE Spirit!

Note: The Father’s ONE Spirit is the same ONE Spirit that is now IN Jesus Christ, that same ONE Spirit that raised Christ from death to eternal life. There is ONLY ONE SPIRIT and by that ONE SPIRIT the Saints of God are raised from death to life eternal.

God the Father by His ONE Holy Spirit dwelling in us beginning our conversion into His Perfect – sinless – Holy and Divine Nature. The Holy Spirit working IN a person begins that conversion thus the Father’s perfect and sinless nature i.e. His LAW i.e, HIS Torah will be is in us and will become our nature as well.

GOD’s Holy Law, His Torah reveals HIS DIVINE HOLY NATURE which is to become our nature.

Note:

Most do not understand; God is the Master Potter and we are the clay, our Father , the Master Potter, is forming and molding each of us as Master Pieces, individual – ONE OF A KIND – MASTER PIECES, not one like another.

Our Father does not make cookie cutter assembly line junk or seconds only one of a kind MASTER PIECES: PRICELESS WORKS OF ART.

Note; Some thoughts are being repeated from different perspectives, revealing what God’s purpose is here on earth.

This Holy Seed, that ONE Spirit in us begins that change in our hearts and minds i.e natures. We can now become willing to obey and by God’s Spirit in us we can begin to live by every WORD of God. It is the Circumcision without hands that is cutting away our carnal human nature thus allowing God’s Holy Divine Nature to be established for all eternity within us.

Important Point: God’s Law is still in place within the New Covenant (remember only better promises are now included, not the removal of the Law) but now God has included changing the nature of His people, thus God’s Called and Chosen HOLY ONES may now fulfill their contract obligation i.e. obeying God’s LAW spiritually as well as physically.

Read Hebrews 8: 6 again, the new contract is based upon Better Promises and not the exclusion of the Law. The old promises of God were all only physical blessings; the new contract now contains spiritual promises. One of the “better promises” is a change in the nature of the people others are shown below.

There is yet another incredible promise in this New Covenant : Eternal life. Jesus Christ has paid the debt of death all mankind has incurred for their sins and because of that one payment, when accepted by a person, that person is no longer “under” the obligation to pay the penalty for their transgressions of the law i.e. death.

The blood of our Savior has made us White i.e. sinless, in the eyes of God the Father. We are now promised a position in the Family of God as immortal Spirit sons of God for eternity IF we endure until the end.

We are to be “born again” into the Spirit Family of God; God is our Father we are His Sons and Jesus Christ is our First Born Elder Brother. We are to reign on earth in the Kingdom of God under our King Jesus Christ as kings, lords and priest. That is the “Good News” Christ delivered to His Saints, “repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand”.

The “better promises” are forgiveness of sin by Christ’s sacrifice; God the Father and Jesus Christ dwelling in us by that ONE Spirit and after enduring until the end; ETERNAL LIFE.

Hebrews 8

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

How will “they” know the LORD? Because “they” will all have the same Divine Holy nature.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

And just what IS SIN and unrighteouness and iniquity? Again 1 John 3: 4.

13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] –readyto vanish away.

Verse 13 does not state the Old — HAS VANISHED –but is growing old and is — “READY” to vanish! It IS “The” old covenant binging upon physical Israel: God’s Elect the punishments found in Leviticus 26: 14 – 39.

One point regarding “Spiritual Israel”; the majority of Spiritual Israel is comprised of those from the 12 physical tribes or nations of Israel. Gentiles must be grafted or adopted into Israel, must become Israelites.

Spiritual Israel is predominately physical Israelites and not gentiles. Christ sent His apostles to the Lost sheep of the House of Israel, only Paul, the 13th Apostle was sent to the gentiles.

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Important fact most do not grasps; God’s mercy for our unrighteousness; i.e. our sin, does not end at baptism – it carries forward as long as we endure.

Those to whom the grace or kindness of God is shown –while they “were” sinners – unrepentant sinners — still dwell in flesh and blood bodies after conversion begins and can and will still sin from time to time.

Those in the Body of Jesus Christ, the Church (Ecclesia), have received the Father’s Spirit but in small measure. The Saints are commanded to grow in grace and knowledge as conversion and salvation is a life long process.

As human flesh and blood none can be sinless – only GOD is sinless thus until the first resurrection the Saints of God will from time to time stumble and sin. Upon repentance God is merciful and will forgive our sins and we have a High Priest, Jesus Christ, who will make intersessions for us with His Father.

In this physical “tabernacle’, this flesh and blood body, a begotten son of God can never reach perfection in Christ, but must reach and strive for that perfection while endure all things which including his or her own weaknesses and getting up every time they fall.

Paul in Hebrews 1 talks about the sin that so easily beset us and that we have not yet resisted unto blood striving against sin. I John 1 also states if we say we have no sin the truth is not in us and in verse 9 “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Conversion is a life long process and it is through much tribulation, pain and suffering, that we will enter the Kingdom.

Let us get right to the heart of this ‘Grace’ the controversy: those that say they are under grace and no longer ‘under’ the Law are doing exactly what 1 John states, they are proclaiming they have no sin, that they are now incapable of sin and have nothing further to repent of!

Those that make the claim they are now under “Grace “and not subject to (under) the LAW have no Truth in them. NONE !

How can it be that we have no sin when 1 John 1: 9 tells converted Christians to confess our sins and that our Savior is faithful to forgive — us – i.e. converted member of the Body of Christ, AND God wants to cleanse us from all unrighteousness!

John is talking to converted Saints of God that need to be cleansed of sin during their time in the salvation process.

It was stated above as a fact; the Law is included in the New Covenant — yes your past sins are forgiven and you are now under the grace (kindness) of God — but by the contractual agreement which you accepted at baptism — you are still subject to God’s Law and you are still subject to the Authority of God the Father and Jesus Christ.

If there were NO LAW John could not have made the statement as He did in verses 8 & 9.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we ( “WE” converted Christians) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

THUS:

If you “willfully” transgress the Law of God, –repentance is no longer available to you and God will spew you out of His mouth.

The above is very important to understand – please take the time to understand as contrary to what some teach Salvation after conversion can be lost!

II Peter 2: 20, 21.

20 For ifafter — they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for themnot to have known - the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], —–to turn from —– the holy commandment delivered unto them

Does this not state as fact that converted Spirit filled Saints of God — if they turn back from the WAY of righteousness — which means turning aside from the Holy Commandments that Christ obeyed perfect to become our sinless Savior —— Does the Apostle Peter not say — their end is worse then if they had never known that WAY???

Fact: Once converted Saints turn from obedience to our Master Jesus Christ and to the WILL of God the Father they will incur again the penalty of death, they will once more be “UNDER” the verdict of the death!

The Law stands Eternal! How else can the Apostle Peter be understood? The Law convicts them once more of sin and the Angels of Jesus Christ at His return will cast them into the Lake of Fire which is the 2nd Death.

The statement of Paul in vs. 13 above states the Old is ready to vanish and IS growing old, in Paul’s day it had not yet vanished and has not in our Day, Christ must return and confirm the new Covenant for yet three and one half more years. He must finish His 7 year ministry of establishing the Covenant which was cut in half by His sacrifice.

In the last half of His 7 year ministry, as KING of kings, unlike the first half, Christ will rule with a rod of iron, you will not have a choice – you will obey or be punished and if you yet will not obey you will be put to death.

Why is God’s Law so important, wasn’t the Law only until Christ?

 

We all should now understand why the Old Covenant did not work; carnal flesh and blood is incapable of obeying what is – against — their nature, that very carnal nature we all inherited from Adam.

 

We should now understand why a New Covenant was necessary and immeasurably better, but that has not nor can completely answer the question of the Law to the satisfaction of many — of that we can be very sure. God’s LAW is hated —- deeply hated !!

 

Man naturally hates God’s Law, man wants to do evil and be called Good which is impossible under the bright light of God’s Law. The Law turns darkness into day light and the deeds of man are then seen under the light of the Law. If the Light of God Law is hid as it is now — how will the evil deeds of men do be seen?

 

lets look at a few of David’s statements regarding the Law of God and then use two unusual but logical approaches to determine the status of that Law and whether man should love God’s Law and what the true purpose of that Law.

 

David, a man after God’s own heart (nature), deeply loved the Law of God. Would it not follow if David’s heart i.e. nature is like God’s and David loved the Law does it not follow God must also Love the Law? Is that statement not logical? 2 + 2 = 4!

 

David wrote the 119th Psalm in praises of the Holy Law of God.

 

Here are a few of David’s statements regarding God’s Law:

 

119: 127 “Therefore – I love thy commandments - above fine gold.

 

119 : 128 “Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right and I hate every false way.

 

119: 142 “Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness and thy — Law is the TRUTH. “

 

119; 151 “Thou art near O Lord and — all thy Commandments are truth.

 

119: 1 72 “My tongue shall speak of thy Word, for all thy Commandments are Righteousness.

 

Using God’s logic can we determine if God’s Law is eternal — Having always existed?

 

Most would agree with the Word of God’s claim that God has always existed;

No beginning and no end. God just – IS:

 

The Bible also tells us God is Righteous and His WAY is the Way of Righteousness, verse 142 above states God’s righteousness is everlasting.

 

This statement by David in Psalms 119 defines what IS Righteousness:

172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.

David, a man after God’s own heart, states: God’s Commandments are TRUTH and are RIGHTEOUSNESS!

 

How else can it be determined whether or not God IS Righteous? Righteousness must first be defined to make that determination and David defined righteousness and Truth as God’s LAW , God’s Commandments. See verses 142 and 172 above.

 

If God has no beginning and no end and if His righteousness is everlasting and if all His Commandments and Law are Righteousness and TruthThen Therefore it must logicall follow:  For God to be held to be Righteous for eternity and God’s Righteous is everlasting The Law must also be eternal and everlasting!

 

For God who has no beginning and no end to be held — to be — eternally righteous; the fact of GOD”s righteousness can not have a beginning date.

 

Thus proving – logically —- it would be impossible for the Law to have a beginning date or an ending date.

 

The Law must be Eternal for God to be “Eternally’ Righteous — as the Law —- defines Righteousness.

 

 

Another method to determine the validity and purpose of having God’s Law in effect eternally is asking this simple question:

 

Do you want your neighbors to obey the 10 Commandments?

 

Which becomes a very very foolish question;

 

Do you want your neighbors to honor their parents or dump them off on you for food, shelter and care? Which is what our government is doing right at this moment.

 

Do you want your neighbors to be murderers?

 

How about this one; do you want your neighbor coming over seducing or raping your wife and daughters and now days your sons? Some, today, would even go after your old mother?

 

Would you like your neighbors to be thieves? You know, coming to help them selves to your “stuff”?

 

Do you want your neighbors to spread lies about you and your family?

 

Do you want your neighbors constantly looking at your ‘stuff’ trying to figure out how to get their hands on your Stuff?

 

That covers the last six, the first four pertain to God and a great reason to keep 6 -10 is because you fear God — but and – IF – you fear God you will certainly keep the first four.

 

The major reason to obey the Commandments – they are the WAY to peace, happiness, joy and Love.

 

It can reasonably be stated that those that personally benefit when others keep the whole Law do not think of it as harsh, as they love its benefits.

 

God’s LAW makes living safe, secure, peaceful and allows joy and Love to reign.

 

I will never understand why anyone would want the law abolished – the only reason is to hid their actions.

 

The Law of God is Spiritual, Eternal and Holy. The Law of God defines and clearly reveals that very Divine Holy Righteous Perfect Nature of God.

 

If God did not live by His Own Law how could or would you know how God would deal with you? Could you know for certain your salvation was sure if God could or would lie ??

 

The Law of God IS love. By living the LAW one loves God and his neighbor.

 

I John 5: 3

 

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

John 14: 15, 21, 23, 24

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.

For those that –foolishly —believe that Christ and the Father differ as to the

Law; Please explain verse 24 stating Christ spoke not His own WORDS ????

 

 

II John 4, 5, 6

4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

“Walking in the truth’ —“as we have received’ – from who?? The Father.

5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Leviticus 19: 18

18 but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.

 

This Commandment is from the Beginning – from the Torah.

 

I John 2: 3 – 6

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Do you walk the same “walk” as Jesus Christ?? Really ???

The Commandments Jesus speaks of are from HIS Father they are not NEW COMMANDSMENTS as some teach.

 

Nehemiah 9: 13, 14

13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and TRUE laws, good statutes and commandments:

14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

In the face of what God inspired Nehemiah to write how can you believe Moses was given harsh evil laws that were against the Chosen People and Christ had to come to remove the Law?

 

To believe the Law had to be removed off the backs of God’s People you have to believe as well that GOD LIES — Does not Nehemiah not call them “Right Judgments and TRUE LAWS”?? Are they or are they NOT?? It is one way or the other.

 

 

After reading the small selection of scripture above all spoken by or inspired by Jesus Christ: After reviewing both the Old and New Covenant, after applying logic and common sense:

 

What is the conclusion MANKIND –will always –reach?

 

The conclusion of man: Christ at His crucifixion nailed that old harsh burdensome evil law of His Father on His stake taking the Law away so we can live ‘free’ under Grace!

 

Man proudly proclaims; “We are no longer ‘under’ that harsh Law, Jesus freed us from that brutal and impossible to keep taskmaster of a Law, we have nothing more we need to repent of, we are perfect now and forever because Christ did it ALL — for us.”

 

 

How sad!

 

 

Ecclesiastes 12: 13

 

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

 

 

The writer understands those that read part or even the entire paper and all the scriptures’ will in all likelihood be of the same mind as they were before reading.

 

Maybe later it will come to their mind – when all else has crumbled.



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    Total 52 comments
    • b4

      you think bible thumpers,christians are any different?hell no–same godless deal,run amok by satan’s agents–total godless bullshit,the bible,just like jesus warned about and for which got him killed–god does not read the bible,never has,never will,was not written by god either-some insane homeless dudes in a cave wrote it,guided by satan–humans do not understand god–they are too petty,immature,hateful,judgemental–just read all the nonsense written by bible thumpers using bible quotes on bin if you want proof-god pays zero attention to humans silliness -god is way above the nonsense humans engage in–we can be like god but god is never like us–we could never offend,elevate,or reduce god–god has no judgement,wrath,anger,etc.these are all human traits-we are little stupid babies in the spirit world–god knows and understands who we are-knows we need to mature,grow up-these dumbass bible thumpers are the most judgemental of all humans,the most immature–they see god as a mean awful vengeful santa claus on one minute and then a most loving daddy they never had the next second–very warped–but fear not you sick insane bible thumpers,christians,salvation is for all just like jesus said–everybody he died for,not just for a bunch of warped ego driven fools who pass judgement on everybody who does not see things their way or hell would already be full with bible thumpers,christians because of their evil judgemental ways–want proof just read the nasty bible thumpers response to my post condemning me to hell like those ingrates have that power! i am one with god and no asshole from this site defines that or any other insane sob

      • Truthseeker

        b4

        why not read the paper and prove it wrong ?? Are you not capable of doing so?

        Since I would not follow you are any man or women to the bath room if my bladder were bursting why would I give any thought to what you have to say?

        What you have to say is only the baseless opinion of a carnal human flesh and blood man i.e. thus worthless.

        • b4

          you have your opinion and its is based on bullshit,total bullshit–and i dont care what you think because you havve proven your self to be an idiot moron

          • b4

            you have proven your self to be exactly who i write about in my first post you fool notruthseeker–your a brainless idiot

          • Mayhem

            But you do care, b4, and your very presence is the proof plus only idiot morons offer unsubstantiated opinions and that is all you my friend.

            • b4

              i care about my family and my world, you know nothing but bullshit so why should i care bout your bullshit?

            • Mayhem

              Because you look like an insane moron when you offer mere opinion as fact because thinkers know that’s not how stuff works.

              So why are you here if you don’t care? Why aren’t you spending this time with your family and world instead? Because you care. You care a great deal.

            • b4

              its entertainment–as soon as i finish typing its over but when you leave bin your still insane

            • Mayhem

              Yes, entertainment, that obviously means more to you than spending time with your family because you do care. You care a great deal.

            • b4

              your not listening–i said i do not care about your bullshit–it stinks,it looks bad

            • Mayhem

              Yes and you care so little you’ve spent the last hour repeating yourself.

              Newsflash, moron, people who don’t care don’t put time into the things they don’t care about.

      • jknbt

        you missed it…Jesus fulfilled the Law, he did not abolish it…

        • b4

          go back to sleep jknbt–you know nothing you fool

        • Mayhem

          Someone missed something, that’s for sure, because Truthseeker doesn’t believe the Law was abolished.

          But if it was, then…. do you need me to explain how an “if,then” proposition plays out?

          • b4

            your insane–they give you internet access in your padded cell mayhem?

            • Mayhem

              you’re

            • BEEF SUPREME

              No, I think he was saying, ‘your insane.’ As in, sir? I believe you dropped something.

              I mean, it must be. No one as sophisticated and worldly as b4 would consistently make such a doltish error now, would they…

        • Truthseeker

          jknbt

          “but to fulfil” # 4137

          Definition
          to make full, to complete

          Christ came to fill the law to the full and did so by making it spiritual as well as physical.

          The Law is now complete it is physical and spiritual

      • jknbt

        why don’t you shut up and go somewhere else? you never have anything intelligent to say, only insults and abuse…did your mother drop you on your head in a church nursery somewhere so that to this day you can’t get over it and only have hateful things to say about christianity?

        SHUT UP AND GO AWAY!

        • b4

          no never you idiot –your a 2 yo pretending to be an adult

          • b4

            bibel thumpers are the most hateful people on this planet–just ask jesus

            • b4

              and i dont hate anything or anyone–just calling out all the bullshiters–just call me jesus #2–you wanna nail my ass to the cross also jknbt you fool

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “…bibel thumpers…”

              You really should stop typing, b4. You’re making me feel very guilty for being unkind to you. Kind of like I’ve been slapping around a Special Olympics contestant.

          • jknbt

            and you are a child of hell pretending to be a human being. yes, hellfire is waiting for you…think about the last time you burned your finger on the stove. Now imagine your whole body burning in an intense grease fire in hell. You can avoid this nightmare if you will repent.

            you really think this bible Christianity is all foolishness? Let’s put it to the test. Pray the atheist’s prayer following (yes, a corollary of the sinner’s prayer)…..

            O God, if there is a God out there, I am having trouble believing in you and your Word. So I ask you to prove yourself to me by giving me enough pain while still alive that I will call on you in humble submission asking you to heal me and to relieve my pain. Don’t kill me, but give me enough suffering that I can recognize my need for you and your forgiveness. They say there are no atheists in the foxhole. So please let enough metaphorical howitzer shells rain down all around me that I might finally learn that there is a God and learn to fear the Lord. In the name of your son Jesus I pray, amen.

            • b4

              yup–go read my first post you fool–you fullfilled it to the max you moron–bible thumpers,bible in one hand,fist full of nails in the other–your a fool jknbt–you play statans hand exactly like he wants you too you fool–read my first post you moron and then pray for yourself you fool–i am NOT an atheists–but you are an idiot–dumb as a box of rocks

            • Truthseeker

              jknbt

              there is no “hellfire” but there is The Lake of fire that is going to burn to ashes all that refuse to obey our Father and HIS SON.

              B4 will be called and given his one chance for salvation at the time God the Father determined before creation he would be called.

              Until that time set by our Father NONE CAN COME TO JESUS CHRIST.

              This is NOT the only day of salvation — Have you read Revelation 20: 5 ‘But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished”.

              This time after the 1000 year reign of Christ is when the 2nd resurrection take place.

            • jknbt

              hey B4….

              apologies, having a bad day…tore up about something going on in my personal life…I felt like I had drained a nasty boil (metaphorically speaking) about answering you that way…

              please do not pray “the Atheist’s Prayer” that I put up here.

            • jknbt

              Hey B4….

              if a punky 15 y.o. kid stood on a street corner next to the local jr. high school and shouted insults and abuse to everyone that walked by, he would not have any right to be offended when someone finally got enough of it, goes over, and punches him in the nose.

              It only makes it worse when the punky kid says, “See, I told you…these people are all a bunch of haters and believers of idiotic nonsense.”

              I think that is what happened here….stop insulting people like you are, and you might not get touched on the metaphorical nose.

          • jknbt

            hey truth-avoider, where did the rich ruler go after he died? He didn’t join Lazarus in the comforts of Abraham…see Luke 16:23

            • Truthseeker

              jknbt he was cast into the Lake of Fire

              Matthew 13: 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, —– and bind them in bundles to burn them: —- but gather the wheat into my barn.

              Jesus Christ tells His reapers to gather the tares and burn them.

              In other words ‘take out the trash and burn it”

              The wheat represents the converted the tares those that refuse to obey.

              Malachi 4; 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet “in the day” that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    • Truthseeker

      b4, Jknbt

      Would you or anyone like to answer the question asked by the title to this paper?

      “IF” Jesus abolished the LAW — then –what is the reason for the coming horrendous “Time of the End” ?

      If there were no Laws to disobey they why is horrendous punishment coming upon the earth?

      • jknbt

        to repeat the above comment: “you missed it…Jesus fulfilled the Law, he did not abolish it…” see Matt 5:17

        Matthew 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

        he did not abolish the Law…Christians are required to live at a higher standard than the Law of Moses, briefly stated as “the law of love”…example of the higher level of accountability: a man can’t even think about having illicit sex without it being sin…Matt 5:27

        See Matt chapt 5 for many scriptures on the subject

        a man cannot have the slightest tinge of material greed without it being serious sin Matt 19:23-26

        how can anyone be saved then? Matt 19:25

        this standard is much higher than ANYTHING the jews taught

        flawed gentiles like you or me can be saved by repenting, turning away from sin, and asking mercy according to the death, burial & resurrection of Christ…God knows we are not perfect…on the economy of salvation by grace through faith, Father God has mercy on repentant sinners according the the blood sacrifice of Christ…Paul taught that the Law was given to show God’s high standard and man’s incredible need. The Law was never intended to justify anyone (get anyone saved)…this was all to take desperate sinners begging mercy to the throne of grace. It is only after you realize how desperate the human condition of total depravity is that a soul becomes open to the grace and faith of God.

        does this mean that gentiles must go under the law of the jews and be circumcised. No, the bible explicitly forbids this in the Acts 15 church council and in Paul’s strong writings in Galatians & Ephesians….Paul said that any convert who goes under the law has be severed from Christ. You can’t make it home to Father God by works or by “grace plus works” as whole denominations teach these days.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          jknbt,

          Why are sinners punished by God?

          • Truthseeker

            Hey Beef

            good to see you back at it.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              It’s hard to leave when you can’t find the door, TS.

              The door to the BIN, that is.

              Not THE DOOR!!!

              He’s easy to find.

          • jknbt

            why do cops give people tickets who run red lights? Look on the charges…in my community it says that “you have offended against the peace, dignity, and order of the community by your failure to obey well known traffic laws”….

            if the king, the sovereign of the universe commands, and if people refuse to listen or obey, then they can take the consequences. The hardest judgments God does is letting people reap what they sow. It is so fair and so unavoidable.

            what are you sowing these days, by the way?

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “…why do cops give people tickets who run red lights?”

              You answered your own objection.

              There is a code of law in both cases; one civilian, the other the Law of God.

              Are we simply expected to just to know what we should and should not do? No. It is always written. Both in this world and in the other. What is sin and what is not? What will land us in the aionian flames of Gehenna and what won’t?

              The only way to know what sin is to know the Law of God.

              And if Christ terminated the Law’s binding effect on the people of this world, then there is no more need for Death and Hades.

              Yet Death and Hades abide.

              Thus, your argument is found wanting.

        • Truthseeker

          jknbt

          First I am not a gentile I am of the tribe of Manasseh a son of Joseph thus an Israelite, a Hebrew and Joseph was NOT a jew.

          Second Jesus Christ taught the Torah and lived a perfect sinless life by living by the Torah perfectly and thus became our Passover.

          the Torah is not a book of the Jews – it is the spoken WORD of God to Moses while on the mountain for 40 days and nights – it is the WORD Christ told us we must live by every Word.

          When Christ came He came to fill to the full the LAW and it is now full as it is physical and Spiritual as you have correctly stated above and as I repeatedly stated in the paper you have not read.

          I do not have fellowship with any of the so called 40,000 kinds or flavors of christianity. I follow Jesus Christ not men.

          Judging from your comments you have a limited understanding of the WORD of GOD, both Old and New.

          Read the paper then judge me if you can. I doubt you have ever read a paper like this one.

          • Truthseeker

            jknbt

            question: do you believe a merciful God would burn a “mortal” human in fire for all eternity??

            Humans are corruptible flesh and blood not incorruptible spirit — humans live in a temporary body of flesh and have an “expiration date” ahead of each one of us. Humans can not be in a fire for all eternity — they are not immortal.

            When we die we no longer exist — we do not have an immortal soul — which is why the resurrection is so astounding and important. Why do you suppose the 11 apostles followed Christ? Because HE had the words of eternal life which the all desired.

            • jknbt

              hey truth-avoider….I don’t have time to debate you on your list of heresies…the scripture says after the first or second admonition, let heretics like you go their way…

              Titus 3:10New King James Version (NKJV)

              10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,

              And also,

              “let Ephraim alone, he was long ago given over to idolatry” Hosea 4:17

              you have a hardened and unrepentant heart. You will never get into Christ’s kingdom until you repent.

              Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

              Those people never repented because they were married to their doctrine. They already had a spouse, so there was no possibility of them becoming part of the true church, the bride of Christ, espoused to Christ….this pretty well describes you.

              I will resist your baiting me to give a fair answer and enter into an honest discussion from now on. You don’t play fair. Your exegesis is not honest. You are not open to any answer or any take on the truth of the Word except for your own design. You do not have a teachable spirit. So go figure it out for yourself. As hardened as you are, you really should put on “fear and trembling”…

              Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

            • Truthseeker

              jknbt

              As I have been washed by the Blood of Jesus Christ and my penalty of death paid by my Elder Brother and High Priest I am looked upon by my Father as Righteous and HE is the only one that counts.

              I am righteous only in the eyes of my Father and HIS SON and that is all I seek.

              jknbt

              Jesus Christ observed the 7th Day Sabbath
              Jesus Christ kept His Father’s Holy Feasts all 7 of them
              Jesus Christ never ate unclean meat
              Jesus Christ was a master of the Torah and kept it to perfection i.e sinless
              Jesus Christ never observed xmas, easter, sunday etc and neither die the Apostles.

              I DO what Christ DID and never Do what HE never DID — what about you?

              Ephraim???
              9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and ——- “Ephraim’ —- is my firstborn.

              Ephraim is the younger brother and Manasseh was the actual first born — God changed the order, the first born gains the birthright i.e. the LAND.

              jknbt what am I to repent of — not being a part of a false religious system of men that teaches against everything Christ did and taught ?

              Of not coming to church on sunday, the day of the sun god or easter i.e. the goddess of spring time?

              Of loving the HOLY Law of my God? Most of what I write is proving the HOLY LAW of GOD has existed forever and is forever, that Christ NEVER ABOLISHED IT.

              Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, ——–as you have always obeyed, —– not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

              JKNBT I OBEY THE WORD OF GOD — ALL OF IT — I AM NOT PERFECT AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING BUT WHAT I DO UNDERSTAND I DO WITH ALL MY MIGHT AND I HAVE SUFFERED FOR DOING SO.

              You are yet confused by the doctrine of men, I quit listening to men long ago – I prove all things by the Word of God and ask my Father to guide and direct my study and HE has for 49 years.

            • jknbt

              hey truth-avoider

              ….if you have gone under the Law found in the Torah, you have been utterly cut off and separated from Christ:

              Galatians 5:4 King James Version (KJV)

              4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

              or better said in the Amplified Version (classic ed.)

              4 If you seek to be justified and declared righteous and to be given a right standing with God through the Law, you are brought to nothing and so separated (severed) from Christ. You have fallen away from grace (from God’s gracious favor and unmerited blessing).

              Question for you? did you go to Jerusalem for the spring feasts of passover, unleavened bread, and first fruits? are you going to the Succoth feast wednesday? did you bring the required offerings? No, you say? Then you are a sinner according to the Law.

              Once again, why am I debating with you? This is poor stewardship of my time. You have never repented. You do not have saving faith. You are married to your doctrine rather than being part of the true church espoused to Christ. Well, this is for sure: you can’t weep and howl in the flames someday, raging at God, saying, “Why wasn’t I warned?!” You have been warned.

              you will no doubt have another flippant answer here…FINE…HAVE THE LAST SAY. You are such of skilled bible scholar, I will stand back and let you figure it out for yourself, as in Phil. 2:12….you will figure out someday what the “fear and trembling” part of that verse is all about…

              and p.s….STOP SHOUTING…USING ALL CAPS AND HUGE FONTS IN YOUR ARTICLES IS INSULTING TO THE MAX….IT IS AS TOLERABLE AS IF YOU GOT IN MY FACE AND STARTED SHOUTING….SO TURN OFF THE ALL CAPS BUTTON

            • Truthseeker

              Jknbt
              I am no longer “under” the Law – no longer — under — the penalty of death as Christ died for me!

              That is what Paul and all the other apostles are speaking of ; “being “under’ the penalty of death, they are not saying we are no longer being judged by the Law but that our penalty of death is paid and we are no longer “under” the penalty prescribed by the Law and GOD for sin.

              99% do not and actual refuse to understand that fact.

              So called Christians also do not under stand the fact offering animal sacrifices are the “Works of the Law” of which the apostles speak when they speak of being justified by the law and no I do not offer animal sacrifices as Christ end that by His ONE sacrifice.

              See Daniel 9: 27

              There is NO work in obeying God’s Law as they tell us what not to do. We are not to sin and there is no work in not sinning.

              The Sacrificial law was added because of sin and that sacrificial law all pointed to the sacrifice of Christ and it is by that sacrifice those called and chosen by the Father are justified — not by obeying God’s Holy Law which is our duty.

              If you read my paper all of the above is laid out and backed up my the Word of GOD.

              I do not expect you to understand the above as it has never been taught by so called Christianity.

              Again jknbt please inform me of what I am to repent of??

              Shall I not love the law of God? That Law which the Word states over and over Is Holy Just and Good!

              Shall I return to taking God’s name in vain, fornication, lying and lusting?

              Jnkbt I have been observing the Sabbath and All of God’s Holy Feasts since 1969, one does not need to go to Jerusalem only to where God had placed His Name.

              I will be observing the Feast of Pentecost on the first day of the coming week — Sunday the 4th of June.

              Jknbt Please let me know exactly which one or ones of the 40,000 flavors is the True Church of GOD??

              Are you telling me of go to church on Sunday and on easter and xmas?? Those are catholic days and I refuse to do so even if it cost me my life.

              jknbt you quoted Phil 2: 12 — what was Paul complemented them for Obeying??

              jknbt you as all the others will not answer the above as you can not.

              All that have told me to repent can not seem to understand they are telling me to repent of living the life Jesus Christ lived as our example to follow.

              You are no different.

            • Truthseeker

              jknbt

              here is an earlier question I asked and I direct it now to you –

              “What is perplexing to me, I am vilified for what I write — but the scriptures I include are never challenged and the logic is never challenged.

              Nehemiah was inspired by God to make the statements below and this scripture alone negates the foundational doctrines of the majority of so called christianity — no one has attempts to challenge or counter Nehemiah or the dozens of other scripture included in this paper.

              Nehemiah 9: 13, 14

              13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and TRUE laws, good statutes and commandments:

              14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

              What Jesus Christ spoke to Moses on the mountain were TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS and yet the majority of so called christians still HATE the HOLY LAW of GOD and will stomp on any that DO that HOLY LAW.”

              Please explain to me how or why what Nehemiah wrote was either not inspired by God or God changed His mind or what?

              This is your opportunity to prove what I write is wrong and what you believe is correct.

              jknbt most at this point tell me how wrong I am etc and that I must repent BUT never counter the logic or scriptures or tell me what it is I must repent of— can you??

              you would be the first.

    • Truthseeker

      What is perplexing to me, I am vilified for what I write — but the scriptures I include are never challenged and the logic is never challenged.

      Nehemiah was inspired by God to make the statements below and this scripture alone negates the foundational doctrines of the majority of so called christianity — no one has attempts to challenge or counter Nehemiah or the dozens of other scripture included in this paper.

      Nehemiah 9: 13, 14

      13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and TRUE laws, good statutes and commandments:

      14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

      What Jesus Christ spoke to Moses on the mountain were TRUE LAWS, GOOD STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS and yet the majority of so called christians still HATE the HOLY LAW of GOD and will stomp on any that DO that HOLY LAW.

      • Truthseeker

        destined

        I would like to know how “you” mr destined – you that teach God’s HOLY SABBATH is no longer HOLY and must NOT be Observed, how you can read Nehemiah 8: 13, 14 and I would guess believe it is a lie or God changed His mind.

        Destined you call yourself a “strong man of God” — demonstrate your strength.

        Since you must have a superior knowledge of the Word of God mr destined, please provide us with the scripture or scriptures stating GOD has removed the 7th Day from being HOLY Time?

        Any that believe destined or think he is a man of God — you are welcome to step in and help the man out, as he seems not able to defend his false doctrines.

    • Truthseeker

      jknbt

      hey truth-avoider

      …”.if you have gone under the Law found in the Torah, you have been utterly cut off and separated from Christ:”

      jknbt If you will allow me I will show you why your statement above was made based upon your lack of knowledge of the WORD of GOD. And is an insult to Jesus Christ and our Father.

      Your statement infers the Law; the Torah, is old and worthless and is something Christ will have nothing to do with and if a person does obey the Torah they have done something against Christ.

      Is the Torah Holy to God?

      The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament written down by Moses.

      Moses copied down exactly all the words God spoke to him while on the mountain thus the Torah IS the WORD of GOD, The Torah came from God’s mouth to Moses.

      The Torah is NOT a book of the JEWS. Moses is a Levite from the tribe of Levi and not a Jew from the tribe of Ju dah.

      Exodus 25

      16 And thou shalt put into the ark –“the testimony” — which I shall give thee.

      20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

      21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the “testimony” that I shall give thee.

      22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which [are] upon the ark of the testimony, of all [things] which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

      Exodus 26

      31 And thou shalt make a vail [of] blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:

      32 And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim [wood] overlaid with gold: their hooks [shall be of] gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

      33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy [place] and the most holy.

      34 And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy [place].

      35 And thou shalt set the table without the vail, and the candlestick over against the table on the side of the tabernacle toward the south: and thou shalt put the table on the north side.

      Exodus 31

      18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, — two tables of testimony, — tables of stone,– written with the finger of God.

      Deuteronomy 31

      26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

      The Book of the law is so HOLY to GOD Moses put the Torah into the Ark of the Covenant along side of the two tables Testimony i.e the two tables of stone written with the finger of GOD. i.e. the 10 Commandments

      The Ark of the Covenant has sitting upon it the Mercy Seat which is the Throne of God and both are in the MOST HOLY PLACE i.e. the Holy of Holies.

      I am not screaming I am showing the importance of the location.

      If the Word of God i.e. the Torah was not Holy to God then why is it under God the Fathers Throne in the Holy of Holies?

      Is it possible for something this HOLY to GOD be abolished??

      Is it possible the 40,000 flavors of confusion falsely called christianity has been deceived by Satan?

      Deceived into believing the LAW is evil — because it is to Satan.

      Jknbt Jesus Christ was judged sinless, judged sinless by the Torah and because He sinned not He was able to become our Passover.

      and then according to you and the majority of christianity Christ abolished the HOLY LAW that gave us our Passover and made salvation possible for sinners.

      Do not expect me to ever repent from the above TRUTH.

      • Mayhem

        “The Book of the law is so HOLY to GOD Moses put the Torah into the Ark of the Covenant along side… the 10 Commandments”

        Doesn’t seem to be much wriggle room left to you, jknbt, and you’re not the first to be stumped by Truthseeker’s logic.

        The Law Abides.

        • Truthseeker

          mayhem

          As you know I have focused on the Law for sometime – and the extent to which folks are willing to go to “push the Law off into the dust bin of history” is very grievous to me, I respect and Love the Law of God.

          It is THE answer to every problem of mankind, and they will not even try to understand, they want a magic pill that will painlessly solve every problem while they can continue in sin.

          I am very pleased you understand. God blesses those that obey, blessing are automatic.

          It appears to me time is short which causes me to “push” the Law possible harder then I should.

          But I also understand it is our Father only that can turn on the “light”.

          I will continue to “push” to put the Law in their mind as few are doing so.-

          Have a nice day,

      • Truthseeker

        jknbt

        Over the last 5 or 6 years I have been told by a few dozen folks here on BIN how wrong I am for Loving the Holy Law of God. That I am seeking righteousness and justification by works by following Jesus Christ and living by the same law as He did.

        When confronted with sound logic and clear scripture all they they have to say is repent — and they never have more that that to say because scripturally they have no way to disprove the logic or the scriptures.

        Is that all you will do ? just tell me to repent ??

        Read this paper and explain if you can where I have misunderstood – take it point by point, scripture by scripture.

        Take the paper to your favorite minister or Bible scholar and let them read and point out the mistakes.

      • Truthseeker

        destined

        Even though it has been proven by scriptures from the Torah, proven your so called “New law of Christ” IS NOT NEW you continue to attempt to convince folks this so called “new law” has replaced the OLD.

        What I presented to JKNBT I now place before you —

        destined make an exception and this one time attempt to explain why God would abolish what is taught from beginning to end in the Word of GOD IS “HOLY just and good”.

        destined why would God replace the book of the LAW that HE has placed in the Holy of Holies?

        Why would God remove the two “witnesses” that testifies we are sinners and worthy of death? Two tables of stone

        Is the Torah Holy to God?

        The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament written down by Moses.

        Moses copied down exactly all the words God spoke to him while on the mountain thus the Torah IS the WORD of GOD, The Torah came from God’s mouth to Moses.

        The Torah is NOT a book of the JEWS. Moses is a Levite from the tribe of Levi and not a Jew from the tribe of Ju dah.

        Exodus 25

        16 And thou shalt put into the ark –“the testimony” — which I shall give thee.

        20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

        21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the “testimony” that I shall give thee.

        22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which [are] upon the ark of the testimony, of all [things] which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

        Exodus 26

        31 And thou shalt make a vail [of] blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:

        32 And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim [wood] overlaid with gold: their hooks [shall be of] gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

        33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy [place] and the most holy.

        34 And thou shalt put the mercy seat upon the ark of the testimony in the most holy [place].

        35 And thou shalt set the table without the vail, and the candlestick over against the table on the side of the tabernacle toward the south: and thou shalt put the table on the north side.

        Exodus 31

        18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, — two tables of testimony, — tables of stone,– written with the finger of God.

        Deuteronomy 31

        26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

        The Book of the law is so HOLY to GOD Moses put the Torah into the Ark of the Covenant along side of the two tables Testimony i.e the two tables of stone written with the finger of GOD. i.e. the 10 Commandments

        The Ark of the Covenant has sitting upon it the Mercy Seat which is the Throne of God and both are in the MOST HOLY PLACE i.e. the Holy of Holies.

        If the Word of God i.e. the Torah was not Holy to God then why is it under God the Fathers Throne in the Holy of Holies?

        Is it possible for something this HOLY to GOD be abolished??

        Is it possible the 40,000 flavors of confusion falsely called christianity has been deceived by Satan? and destined you are included in this group of deceived folks and at the head of the line.

        Deceived into believing the LAW is evil — because it is to Satan.

        Jknbt Jesus Christ was judged sinless, judged sinless by the Torah and because He sinned not He was able to become our Passover.

        and then according to jknbt and destined and the majority of christianity — Christ abolished the HOLY LAW that gave us our Passover and made salvation possible for sinners.

        Impossible!

    • Truthseeker

      There have been numerous papers posted on BIN using the Word of God to confirm the Holy Law of God was never nailed to the stake of Christ but is in full force and effect to day and for ever — and everyone that come out of the womb will be judged by that Holy Law– yet the majority of comments are pointed at the writer and what a shame it is that he does not understand the freedom Christ gave us and that the writer should repent and follow main stream christianity and Why doesn’t the writer understand we are under Grace and not the law.

      To those folk I say — read the papers and prove by the WORD of God the writer has incorrectly used the word of God and God’s logic. Why bother to attack the writer, the facts remain and attaching the writer can never remove the TRUTH?

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