Border Burning Updates: People Fleeing, Injuries Reported, Inmates Battle Flames
UPDATE: TUESDAY, JUNE 21, 5:35 PM
The Border Fire injuries have climbed to four as Lake Morena Village area, now under dangerous threat of going up in flames, is being evacuated Tuesday afternoon. This deadly fire is heading east, while other areas across the south western border are also being evacuated due to the fire surge. Scientists blame the widespread destruction and the potentially thousands of new environmental refugees on global warming-related historical 2015-2016 El Nino.
Residents including Navy base residents have packed their belongings, including 55 miniature donkeys and other animals after officials ordered evacuation as the Border Fire headed toward them. Cal Fire Capt. Kendal Bortisser estimates the new evacuation ordered Tuesday involves over 1,500 people in that area alone, all at risk of losing their homes.
Over 1,400 firefighters were trying to hold the line to 7,500 acres Tuesday. While the number of acres scorched by midday had not changed since Monday night, it began growing again by early afternoon.
Inmates are being forced to fight the blaze for their $2.00/day slave wage. One inmate was hurt battling the fire Monday night. He was rushed to a hospital with unknown injuries. Three other firefighters suffered minor heat-related ailments, according to Cal Fire. No names were released.
“Thousands of low-level offenders have become a crucial component of how the state battles wildfires.” (NPR) The prison system is big business in all states, but especially in California.
“Other states like Wyoming and Nevada have similar inmate programs, but the California Department of Corrections program, with about 4,000 inmates, is the largest,” reports NPR. “Corrections officials say the program saves the state more than $100 million a year.”
Mountain Empire Unified School District has announced on its website that, due to the Border Fire, all schools in its district will be closed the rest of the school year.
Sheriff’s officials sent emergency notifications and deputies went door-to-door to the area’s widely spaced ranches and a community off Buckman Springs Road near Lake Morena. They warned residents of approaching flames, and tied yellow caution tape onto mailboxes where residents elected to stay put.
Evacuation areas were listed as: Pacific Crest Trail to the south, Buckman Springs Road to the east from Lake Morena Drive to Morena Valley Road, Moreno Stokes Valley Road (Corral Canyon) and Sky Ranch Valley Road.
By 2 p.m., Border Patrol and animal services had arrived with several trailers. They packed the 25 mini-donkeys into one large trailer and arranged rides for horses, standard-sized donkeys, goats, dogs and nine cats.
“It’s like they’re your children, you know?” said Fuson. “We have babies, we have a 2-month-old (mini-donkey). They’re not something you just entrust to someone.”
Also in Southern California, two adjacent fires in the San Gabriel Mountains 20 miles northeast of Los Angeles burned out of control but had not destroyed any homes while their combined size grew to more than 8 square miles.
About 770 homes in the foothill city of Duarte were under evacuation orders and residents of Bradbury and Monrovia just to the west were urged to be ready to leave immediately if given the word.
The historical climate change-related 2015-2016 El Nino, that produced more rain and in turn, excessive vegetation — now dried in the first 2016 heatwave — created a new climate-change-related disaster impacting more than only California. Other western border states are also caught in the wildfire surge. Hundreds of evacuations are in progress as fires, smoke and falling ashes run people out of their homes.
In Utah, officials evacuated some 100 homes from a mountain town in the southwest of the state as a wildfire less than a mile away moved down a rocky slope toward Pine Valley community. The square mile blaze is moving dangerously close to homes in difficult terrain, officials said.
Blazes burned wide swaths across Arizona and New Mexico, where firefighters also faced blistering heat, according to Associated Press.
“In New Mexico, a 28-square-mile fire that erupted last week and destroyed 24 homes in the mountains south of Albuquerque showed signs of slowing down. Higher humidity has allowed crews to strengthen lines, and some evacuees would be allowed to return home on Tuesday.
“In eastern Arizona, a fire doubled to nearly 42 square miles and led officials to warn a community of 300 residents to prepare to evacuate. The blaze on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation was not moving quickly toward the community of Cedar Creek because of sparse vegetation and shifting winds.”
Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey has declared a state of emergency for Navajo County to free up funds to help fight a wildfire that has spread and charred about 56 square miles so far.
Ducey made the announcement Tuesday afternoon, saying the declaration will release state dollars to assist with local response and recovery efforts and ensure appropriate state agencies are at the ready should they be called upon.
The fire began June 15. Its cause remains under investigation. It is only 20 percent contained.
ORIGINAL STORY
The United States Mexican border is burning. A deadly record-breaking heat wave across the border area south of San Diego sparked a fire in Monday’s early hours, racing to spread over 7,500 acres in less than 24 hours, according to Cal Fire. The blaze rapidly prompted mandatory evacuations and injured at least three people, as it blankets the region in hazardous orange smoke and rains ash over millions of residents both sides of the border.
‘Extreme Fire Behavior’
Cal Fire tweeted Monday: “Extreme fire behavior and activity.”
Firefighters battled heat and winds in flames and rough terrain all day Monday. Dropping 375-gallons of water at a time seemed futile. Firefighters were able to contain only 5% of the fire. Embers crossing the containment line immediately became flames spreading out of control with no end in sight.
Highway 94 is closed.
Smoke in two small border towns, Potrero and Campo, is so thick, broad daylight looked like dark of night, according to CW6 News. Flames — climbing up power lines, singeing dry vegetation, incinerating trucks and outbuildings, burning everything in its path — can be seen miles away on both sides of the border.
Joe Cebe desperately tried to get to his farm where he owns a quarter of a million chickens. The unknown of his livelihood is haunting.
“We have no power to feed the chickens but could at least get them water, but we can’t get people in,” Cebe said.
The deadly border fire in unbearable bone dry heat has destroyed outbuildings, caused power outages, injured three firefighters and prompted widespread evacuations, according to KPBS News.
Border weather conditions over the past few days set heat records, including 118 degrees in Borrego Springs, according to the National Weather Service. The intensive heat has placed fire fighters at greater risk as they attempt to extinguish the blaze that erupted near Potrero has already charred over 7,000 acres in the far south along the border where people are fleeing.
Officials have ordered evacuations in some areas while warning the public to avoid potential death traps. They advise to avoid heat ailments by staying well-hydrated, avoid all unnecessary outdoor labor and check on neighbors and relatives — especially those with health conditions and who lack air conditioning. ACs are rare in the border area, that until very recent years, held a world-renowned “best weather” reputation.
Officials have warned against leaving children or pets in parked cars, that can quickly become death traps in high heat.
Residents are urged to conserve electricity, especially during peak hours: 11 a.m. to 8 p.m. Avoiding using major appliances such as washing machines, dryers and microwave ovens, and turning off lights and computers when not needed is requested.
An excessive-heat warning is in effect for inland areas until 8 p.m. Wednesday. For now, however, winds are fanning and spreading flames across the smoke- blanketed border area.
The American Red Cross of San Diego and Imperial counties said Monday that the Campo Elementary School shelter is closed and a new shelter has been established in El Cajon at Los Coches Creek Middle School at 9669 Dunbar Lane.
Meanwhile, new wildfires erupted Monday near Los Angeles, chasing residents from their homes as the intense heatwave stretching from California’s West Coast to New Mexico blistered the region.
“Towering columns of smoke rose from the San Gabriel Mountains as two fires burning less than 2 miles apart devoured brush on steep slopes above foothill suburbs,” reports ABC News.
Police in the city of Azusa and parts of Duarte ordered hundreds of homes evacuated. Others were under voluntary evacuations.
“It’s crazy. It’s super close,” said 17-year-old Tawni Atencio, whose family was evacuating their home in Bradbury.
She said flames a couple miles away were making the house hot despite air conditioning. She watched smoke from the fire billow outside and helicopters dropped retardant on the flames.
“It looked like a bomb exploded,” she said. “It’s scary. We’re just praying it doesn’t get to our house.”
Along with about a dozen other dangerous fires in California, other blazes burned wide swaths across Arizona and New Mexico, where firefighters face blistering temperatures.
Sources: KPBS News, ABC News
Photo Credit: KPBS News
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Global warming deniers are reaping their grim harvest. Many, like fossil fuel companies and their shills, lied knowing this would happen.
all the planets are heating up is fossil fuel heating them all up? Why dont u go hang out with all gore he invented the internet to dontcha know.
Its easyer to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled 
Hope that’s a joke cos al gore had Nothing to do with creating the Net !
If it wasn’t for Al Gore and B. Rack Hussein Osama, Florida would be under water right now and Southern California would be floating around the South Pacific.
And Al Gore did so invent the internet. Everybody knows that. He invented people too. And water. And the Sun.
Hilarious, thanks for the humor.
We should just ignore ignorami who can’t even spell, but for the record, the other planets are not heating up and Al Gore never claimed to have invented the internet – both are malarkey spread by the climate deniers.
If you look at the planets geothermal history you’ll learn that climate change is a natural planetry event that’s repeated many times over. The climate agenda being the sole cause of human is wrong. What is happening to our planet is natural . I’m not saying were the sole cause but we aren’t helping. The planet goes to an ice age like clockwork as it always has.
yes
you have to use some common sense too as you are inferring
if the earth is in a part of the cycle where the temperature is rising then of course the temperature is rising just like if you are on the upside of the hill the ground is rising that does not mean you made the ground rise.
Paul “Al Gore shill” Brown nose extraordinaire… You really aren’t this ignorant… You do have reading/comprehension capabilities? Our geographic climate has been engineered through “geoengineering” please take the time to read and comprehend this word…”geoengineering” do some/any research and re-comment below. PS – global warming is a FARCE to “control mankind” and acquire carbon taxes from idiots like you.
You can’t argue with a leftist, Clappy.
Or, you can, but the very second you begin to win the argument, you become a racist.
It’s just no fun anymore.
I liked it better when they just smoked weed, grew out their hair and lived in yurts.
They were never capable of recognizing that they’re being used as tools in the furtherance of insidious agendas. They’re far too inwardly focused and have much too high an opinion of their own intellects for such mental accomplishments.
Mental accomplishments? Scientists look at evidence and apply logic and knowledge to make advances. They certainly aren’t inwardly focused – that’s characteristic of prescientific philosophers. The advances in knowledge are apparent if you compare our understanding of the world in 1816 and 2016. What have you contributed to that advancement of knowledge?
There are of course stupid leftists and rightists, and neocons and neolibs come in all flavors – they are the ones with insidious agendas, like both Clinton and Trump. And the “shadowy government,” ruled by the people of real power who don’t hesitate to sacrifice us for their own evil ends. They have managed to corrupt science all right, as evidenced by the few climate scientists who have been shown to work in the interests of fossil fuel and other companies that are wrecking the planet. Fortunately most climate scientists are brave individuals who work hard to ascertain the reality, even though they are victimized by corporations, government, and even so-called “think tanks” which are demonstrably fronts for the rulers of the world.
“Scientists look at evidence and apply logic and knowledge to make advances. They certainly aren’t inwardly focused – that’s characteristic of prescientific philosophers.”
I said ‘leftists’ were inwardly focused, Paul. Despite what you might believe to the contrary, the term ‘leftist’ is not synonymous with the term ‘scientist.’ A scientist is not inwardly focused. But a leftist scientist busy about deforming data and evidence to make it fit a leftist agenda, is inwardly focused. “The means justify the ends…” – that’s the motto of the Alinskyite Radicals. That motto is always rejected by right-thinking men. (By ‘right’ I do not mean to indicate right-wing ideology. By ‘right’ I mean only ‘correct.’)
“The advances in knowledge are apparent if you compare our understanding of the world in 1816 and 2016.”
A typical leftist dodge. Why not compare our ‘knowledge’ (so-called) of the world in 2016 to the knowledge of the ancients? In a great many cases the ancients embarrass our decrepit modern knowledge and put it to an open shame. So much for your theories of the evolution of knowledge.
“What have you contributed to that advancement of knowledge?”
My contribution to the advancement of knowledge is my labor to combat ideological agendas which are accelerating this world into the fiery furnace of destruction. My contribution is to communicate with men and women on a personal basis, that I might plead with them to observe and to see with eyes free from ideological contamination. My contribution to knowledge is that I point UPWARD to the Heavens, friend. I point away from dead humanism and empty worship of such false idols as politics, as patriotism, as evolution, as atheism, as **RELIGION**, and as academia.
(Yes, Paul. I just said religion is idolatry. No exceptions.)
“There are of course stupid leftists and rightists…”
You’ll find I’m an equal opportunity accuser of ideologies – left, right and center. But today, leftist ideology is the foremost clear and present danger.
“…the people of real power who don’t hesitate to sacrifice us for their own evil ends.”
You serve those evil ends, Paul. And insofar as I deviate from TRUE Knowledge and just motivations, so do I. But I think I see more clearly than you.
“…scientists who have been shown to work in the interests of fossil fuel and other companies that are wrecking the planet.”
If an advocate for hydraulic fracturing was here on this board, I would be about as cordial and pleasant with him as I am being with you. One sinister agenda is no better than the next.
“…they (the ‘brave scientists’) are victimized by corporations, government, and even so-called “think tanks” which are demonstrably fronts for the rulers of the world.”
Sorry Paul. You and government are on the same side of this issue. Make no mistake about that. And don’t think right-thinking individuals will make any mistake about it either.
Independent scientists refusing to address geoengineering is not helping their scientific cause. Nothing else they try to prove related to climate change will impact human change until they adequately address the felt needs of the people. They are woefully failing to do this.
Don’t try to pick on a scientist who has studied the original research literature on climate change extensively. The climate scientists were wrong on a few points, like any scientists, because science evolves as opposed to blind faith which doesn’t. Their most important error: they underestimated the now-understood speed and extent of global warming, which is the only proven cause of climate change. Global warming, for those who want to learn some actual science, is caused by greenhouse gases primarily and now by positive feedback effects like melting of ice and tundra, forest fires, and decreased capacity of plants to take up CO2 as temperatures go up. For those who want to actually learn about climate science, there are plenty of sites such as the one maintained by the Union of Concerned Scientists, where the details are spelled out and the lies of the climate deniers are refuted. Of course, the way to really pick up some knowledge is to take some courses at an accredited university which is not bought out by the fossil fuel industry or teaching religious dogma like creationism.
Mr. Paul wrote:
“Don’t try to pick on a scientist who has studied the original research literature on climate change extensively.”
Well now, that would all depend on which conclusions said scientist has drawn as a result of his studies and what he has to say, wouldn’t it. Is said scientist an advocate for the global warming agenda? Then said scientist is also a leftist. It’s that simple. And thanks for the advice, but I will</i? ‘pick on’ him wherever he crosses my path. Show me a non-ideologue or a conservative-minded scientist who believes in and advocates for the global warming agenda. Never mind. You can’t.
“The climate scientists were wrong on a few points, like any scientists…”
If by ‘wrong on a few points’ you mean caught outright fabricating and fraudulently doctoring data to a criminal degree, then yes – that is what happened. But non-ideologue, non-agenda-driven (read non-leftist) scientists don’t behave in such ways.
“…because science evolves as opposed to blind faith which doesn’t.”
ZING!!! Make sure you get your digs against the faithful wherever you can. Why, Paul? What is the point of inserting faith into this conversation? I’ll tell you why: Because you’re a disingenuous ideologue who labors to associate defective thinking with people of faith. People of faith had nothing to do with this conversation until you just now made them a part of it. That’s a disgusting and deplorable tactic. It is a leftist tactic. Now Paul, there is such a thing as blind faith. But true faith is the exact opposite of blindness.
“For those who want to actually learn about climate science, there are plenty of sites such as the one maintained by the Union of Concerned [Leftist] Scientists, where the details are spelled out and the lies of the climate deniers are refuted.” [Brackets added.]
Climate deniers? Just what is a ‘climate denier’ Paul? That’s another one of your jammed-packed with meaninglessness leftist terms. I’ve never met anyone, including the pathologically crippled, who denies CLIMATE. So then climate deniers are a myth. What you mean to communicate via your pregnant with subterfuge newspeak insults, is LEFTIST-AGENDA-DENIERS. Now, they most certainly exist. I am one of them. I am most certainly a leftist-agenda-denier. And that is no mythological group. Climate deniers, on the other hand, exist only in Orwellian lore.
“Of course, the way to really pick up some knowledge is to take some courses at an accredited university…”
Translated: The ONLY way to learn is to submit yourselves to the leftist authorities and bow at the altar of THE PROGRAM!!! Become a cog in the Leftist Academic Gearwheel!!! Become functionally integrated!!!!
Thanks, Pail. I think I’ll pass.
“…which is not bought out by the fossil fuel industry or teaching religious dogma like creationism.”
ZING!!! Had to take the irresistible parting shot at creationists, didn’t you. Speaking of creationists, Paul…
…why is it that your cherished universities have CEASED inviting creationists on campus to debate evolutionists? The honest answer, Paul… The real, defendable, demonstrable answer…
I wonder if you dare.
Apologies for the italic malfunction and for once typing ‘Pail’ instead of ‘Paul.’
Both were unintentional flaws in my post.
Cintus is a “Paul Denier”
CORRECT!!!
Hey Paul, get your head out of that liberal talking points book and you might learn something. ALL of the planets in our solar system are heating up including Earth.
There is a transformational shift occurring and all of the planets are moving into a higher vibrational frequency.
The “shift is hitting the fan” now and when it’s all said and done all of the planets will be vibrating in 4D.
I really wish those of you that are asleep at the wheel would awaken and join the rest of us because in a way you’re holding us back.
Sorry, real science is not a partisan issue. It is based on refuting hypotheses (universal statements cannot be proved because one can’t test all possible cases, but they can be disproved by finding one exception).
The “higher vibrational frequency” notion is pseudoscience gobbledegook. A little knowledge of physics is useful in spotting such nonsense. “Vibrating in 4D” is of course nonsense as well.
Asleep at the wheel? Are you a scientist who produces new knowledge? Obviously not. I am.
Oh, for f***s sake. An El Nino drought killed 18 million people in Asia. In 1876-78.
Here’s the science. There has been no warming since the late 20th century. Therefore, there has been no weather caused by warming.
If you don’t understand why these things are true, start with the fact that satellites measure air temperature, from ground level on up, by the irradiance of oxygen.
Oxygen radiates its heat directly to outer space. Those wavelengths are not blocked by water vapor, or carbon dioxide, or methane. Therefore, heat is never “trapped” in the atmosphere.
Next consider that the atmosphere cools the surface of the Earth, and the upper atmosphere cools the lower atmosphere. Where did you think the heat came from, in the air? It left the Earth. And then it leaves the lower atmosphere.
Oh, never mind. You are not qualified to discuss the matter. You lack the knowledge and the intelligence.
They’re just clearing the land in Preparation for a Wall.
As much as I’m anti-wall, I thank you for the laugh.
Anytime
Reading these comments I’m sorry for the fact that I was required to take a bunch of hard science classes while getting my graduate degree. Otherwise, ignorance is bliss which is proved in BIN over and over and over.
So what’s that supposed to mean? You’re a brainwashed liberal and schooled in their fraudulent LIE called the “Darwin” theory?
Sorry, Moochie, the creationists are the ones who are brainwashed. Their agenda is to defend religious dogma, at the cost of scientific dishonesty. You might be interested to know (well, maybe not) that there were several theories of the origin of species, that were disproved. No one has disproved the theory of natural selection, and it is the basis of most of biology today. Creationism is not – no scientific advances can be ascribed to that religious dogma.
“…the creationists are the ones who are brainwashed.”
Izzatafactnow.
Would you care to review a few video recordings of creationist v. evolutionist debates, Paul? Recall what I mentioned above – the fact that universities have ceased inviting well-prepared creationists on campus to debate evolutionists. The reason for that is the fact that single evolutionists or even panels of evolutionists cannot contend with a well-prepared creationist. The well-prepared creationist vaporizes his evolutionist opponents in the most spectacular of fashions.
Why don’t you look up a few of these recorded debates and examine them. [And think twice before calling my bluff here. I promise to make you look very silly indeed if you do.]
It has become policy at major colleges and universities to no longer host nor to conduct any (well-prepared) creationist v. evolutionist debates, because the colleges and universities have learned that the creationist’s arguments have become insurmountable for the evolutionists. The (well-prepared) creationist wins the debate EVERY time – sometimes to the result of a standing ovation in an audience filled with left-leaning students. (We can’t have that happening on a regular basis now, can we.)
“Their agenda is to defend religious dogma…”
Religious dogma cannot be defended against a well-reasoned argument. Creationism is most certainly NOT religious dogma, although I realize how virtually impossible it will be for you to understand that fact while situated as you are presently – looking at the world through the lens of leftist ideology.
“…at the cost of scientific dishonesty.”
Look up a few of those debates Paul.
“No one has disproved the theory of natural selection, and it is the basis of most of biology today.”
Defeat has not been acknowledged. The corpse is still artificially animated by electricity and by continuous monetary infusions from odious institutions as well as nefarious billion and trillionaires.
“Creationism is not – no scientific advances can be ascribed to that religious dogma.”
Creationism and religious dogma, Paul. One day you will learn the difference. There are no scientific advances in creationism. There is only an increase in already abundant knowledge that the Word of God is accurate and true in not some, not most, but in ALL cases.
And if you care to throw down right here on this board and wrangle over a few specifics, you’ll find I’m most agreeable to the idea. But my guess is you ‘don’t have the time.’
I’ve heard it all before.
Keep the spankings going Cintus.
Mr. Brown..
I’ve been reading through this thread with great interest as you and others have displayed some intriguing point counterpoint.
As you are a scientist, and I am not, I’m interested in your opinion concerning developments in molecular genetics, genetic code, which seem to indicate a case for intelligent design. I have trouble imagining how intelligent design could possibly not account for the intricacy of genetic code.
I see that you uphold natural selection and yet, i was under the impression that Darwinian theory does not account for irreducible complexity on the cellular level. You believe it does?
You say that no one has disproved natural selection theory, and yet, isn’t there a trend emerging within the science community that is leaning towards intelligent design as a valid scientific theory now?
Fascinating stuff, this. But I’m not understanding your assertion of “defending religious dogma”. I’ve been seeing far more emphasis on acceptance of intelligent design without religious implication.. creationism merely being a natural conclusion to the evidence of design. Is there a specific reason that you would reject the case for intelligent design?
Thank you for intelligent questions, rather than dogmatic bombast, which I will no longer respond to.
It turns out that over generations, genetic code can undergo random changes in base pairs on the DNA (letters in the genetic code, which specifies the amino acid sequences in proteins, which determine their structural and enzymatic properties). There can also be rearrangements of gene locations on chromosomes, and changes of the controlling sections of genes which determine how they are turned on and off by intracellular messengers and substances in the environment. In a large gene pool with short generation times, this can amount to changes every few seconds; in small gene pools with long generation times, it can take much longer.
Genetic changes can increase, decrease, or have no effect on reproductive ability of their hosts, for example by affecting their biochemistry or functionality of cells or organs. Natural selection is the resulting increase, decrease, or no effect on the frequency of occurrence of the new gene as a result of changes in reproductive success. To the gene, the organism is just a way of making copies of itself.
Changes resulting from natural selection can be relatively fast or slow. As gene pools within a species diverge (e.g., through geographic separation), subspecies arise that cannot interbreed, resulting in new species. The origin of complex functions and organs like eyes have been demonstrated to have resulted from gradual changes, some neutral and others advantageous to reproductive ability (including staying alive, fertility levels, etc.)
Species come and go. There have been so many species in the history of the planet they could not have all coexisted at the same time, and there is no evidence to suggest that they did. Obviously there is no way the millions of species a few thousand years ago could have fit on Noah’s ark. New species are constantly evolving and going extinct. There have been mass extinctions followed by expansions of diversity. We are currently undergoing the sixth mass extinction due to human effects on the planetary ecosystem, with extinctions outpacing new species by a factor of a thousand or more.
With time more and more “missing links” are being identified, including the evolution of prehumans and even different human species. The geological, archeological, and anthropological records, as well as studies of gene frequencies in populations, have confirmed this. Even linguistic studies of humans have been in concordance with the other data.
Not one aspect of natural selection has been disproved, although the details become better understood as a result of scientific research, and not one advance in scientific knowledge has come from alternative theories like creationism or its poorly disguised cousin intelligent design. Incidentally, it is naive to think that creationism is not motivated by religion. Pretty much nobody except Christians believe in the notion, and any claim that Christians are the only ones who have it right only verifies the religious nature of these pseudotheories. There are other equally invalid religious myths about creation and the origin of species, such as the dreamtime of Australian aborigines, Hindu mythology, Norse mythology and so on. The reason there are fewer debates on intelligent design vs creationism is because like Larmarckism (the theory that species arise from changes acquired through lifetime experience of individuals), the debate is over among scientists and the educated lay public. To believe in intelligent design requires a rejection of too much well-established science,, not just in biology but in geology, archeology, anthropology, physics, chemistry, relevant mathematics, and even, for some creationist variations, astronomy and cosmology.
There are many wonderful books on evolution, by brilliant thinkers, far more convincing and interesting than the ones on intelligent design. For starters I recommend those by the award-winning sociobiologist E.O. Wilson, whose magisterial command of the science is breathtaking. One of his latest books is “The Social Conquest of Earth,” spanning all the disciplines I have mentioned.
Enjoy.
Swear you used to be the Rev Paul Brown.
Anyone else remember him almost the same with a formal black shirt and little white neck thing? Gold and rich crimson curtains? Slight red glow to the screen?
My mind must be playing tricks on me or it’s that Mandolla Effect again.
…..today and for a couple more, I mourn the absence of a Brother.
Hail the Warrior.
Back in a few.
After Paul wrote:
“…dogmatic bombast, which I will no longer respond to…”
One had hoped RAIN might bring the… well… the RAIN.
Because, Paul… if bombast is the unpardonable offence in your eyes, and though I scarcely deny that I am bombastic, how is it, I ask, that you began this conversation board with the very first comment…
…and it, laden with language that would spread a grin across the pudgy face of Paracelsus himself…
???
Do recall, Paul, I have already suggested to you that we might sequester an issue or two, and address the merits and demerits of those specifics.
You see, your complaint about dogmatic bombast rings most hollow – for you are the one who interjected faith and creation into this conversation.
You, Paul.
Not I.
And if you are an honest man to even a meager degree, then you must consider what has happened here.
True
One of the more common endeavors of man over all his thousands of years of existence is to run faster.
why has there been no natural development of man to be able to utilize all fours to run faster?
Many of the animals use all fours to run faster.
And why are there still apes??? Some of them were like “na bro you go ahead and evolve, I’m just gonna stay here and fling my own feces for a few thousand more years.”
Paul got spanked by Cintus. It’s nice to see the BEEF demolish the nay sayers. It’s okay though Paul you can believe you are an ape if that’s what you want to believe. Boys are believing they are girls and girls are believing they are boys so you can believe whatever you want.
“…demolish…”
Good word.
Cintus.. yes, sorry for the rain delay.. took a day to tune a ram’s horn, ensuring a good loud bleat that might rouse a Viking.. has a wail of a sound though..heh..
Think the guy might hear it?
Mr. Brown..
A lengthy reply – thank you for your effort, But.. in return I’ll begin with a small sentiment from Darwin:
“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could
not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive slight modifications,
my theory would absolutely break down.” – Charles Darwin
Yeah, back in his day, and seemingly continuing to this day, there was a distinct limit to knowledge of Cellular Biology.. they just didn’t have the apparatus with which to conduct any meaningful exploration into the complexities of the cellular world.
And a few other worlds as well..
However, some stunning advancements have been made that have reshaped theories within the scientific disciplines, and within the four Cats –
Natural sciences
Formal sciences
Social sciences
Applied sciences
It is the advancement (new knowledge) that has served as creator of Intelligent Design Theory. Not agenda driven religious dogma.
The birthing of the ID theory brought together a number of people, quite qualified in their respective science fields, in a 1993 meeting that included:
Dean H. Kenyon – Evolutionary Biologist, Michael S. Behe – Biochemist, Steven C. Meyers – Geophysicist… among others, All of whom had become adherents to ID Theory.. and with good reason –
Darwin’s theory of Natural Selection, while chugging along it’s rails as a well respected train of thought, and that endeavored to explain all life as an evolutionary process, hit an obstruction and comes to a screeching halt at the cellular, and
molecular levels.
That’s the break down.
Through Dr. Behe, came “irreducible complexity”, and as defined by Behe –
“By irreducibly complex I mean a single system composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning. An irreducibly complex system cannot be produced directly (that is, by continuously improving the initial function, which continues to work by the same mechanism) by slight, successive modifications of a precursor system, because any precursor to an irreducibly complex system that is missing a part is by definition nonfunctional.”
This immediately describes the molecular machinery of the Bacterial Flagellum.. an actual, functioning, gear fed shaft driven biological motor comprising a dazzling array of integrated parts of molecular machinery, all of which are necessary for the functioning of the motor. It is quite literally a biological machine. Machines require an assembly “blue print” for each of the parts to be integrated.
Here we approach the essence of the ghost in the machine –
Information.
But in an effort to dismiss Behe’s theory of irreducible complexity, came Co Option Theory.. and yet, a true knowledge of the mechanics of the Flagellum destroys that argument, in that, the errant theory does not allow for the development of unique parts, such as evident within the Flagellum. UNIQUE. “never existed before” parts.
Parts which, according to Natural Selection, must have “Functional Advantage”. The looming problem then, is how all these unique parts can exist, where the machine as a whole CANNOT function without any one of the parts. Without a Function, there is no need for parts and Natural Selection eliminates the unnecessary.
For anyone who would like to see a graphically beautiful explanation of the Flagellum Machine, check out the following vid @ 16:00 – (give it a few minutes..)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzj8iXiVDT8
yowza that’s cool.
But we want to get to the subject of Origin.. and the necessity of Information. This was Dean Kenyon’s big stumbling block, who co-wrote “Biochemical Predestination”.
THIS was the book that attempted to prove that first life could have originated as a successful blending of simple chemicals…
THE book that convinced the science world that a “designer” was not needed to produce first life. But what does Kenyon say now??
“OOPS”. “I was wrong”.
He realized this because he could not refute a challenge to his theory – If
“information” is absolutely necessary for the construct of any life form – as in, DNA.
Natural Selection CANNOT account for the origin of information, genetic material..
So, Kenyon, father of the muck theory, failed, reassessed.. became an advocate of Intelligent Design.
I would encourage everyone to view the linked video in full.. trust me, it’s very cool..
But as for your boy, Mr. E.O. Wilson, sorry, I can’t follow his proclamation that math is not a very big deal in science.
I’ll provide a reference here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/04/e_o_wilson_is_wrong_about_math_and_science.html
Mr. Wilson, who said “in his recent piece in the Wall Street Journal (adapted from his new book Letters to a Young Scientist)”,
” “Many of the most successful scientists in the world today are mathematically no more than semiliterate … I speak as an authority on this subject because I myself am an extreme case.”
Sure, rather tongue in cheek, yet, Wilson has been called out on fuzzy math before, as explained in the linked article.. no wonder he screwed up.. “Math no matter”. Try chiseling that into a statue of Newton. Ol’ Isaac would get off the pedestal and smack you for that with a bit o’ calculus..
Still, as is being pointed out here, Natural Selection Cannot account for the origin of life. Information, along with Material, and Energy is a contemporary condition recognized as being essential to life itself.
Where did it come from? What supplied the information (genetic material)?
Infomation is now known to come from just one source. Intelligence.. the Selected Elephant in the room.
Hence, the arrival of Intelligent Design via Knowledge, NOT religious dogma.
Seems to me, Mr. Brown, your entire argument dismissing intelligent design, breaks down. Just like Natural Selection does.
It goes off the rails.
Hello Mitch. Great to see you here and I thank you for reading my article. Thank you for explaining your science in graduate school. What a difference when that’s a person’s background rather than people relying on media only – be it mainstream or alternative. As you know, both are weighted with operatives working to maintain the status quo in best interest of corporatism — eg the petrochemical military industrial complex. Stats show that the less formal education an American has, the easier it is for ops to convince them of whatever the NWO wants. By the way, my favorite alternative talk-show host is Vinnie Eastwood.
‘The less ‘Formal’ education an American has, the easier it is for ops to convince them of whatever the NWO wants.”
Er…what?
The OPS control the education Americans get.
AND STATS?!!!
WHO’S EXACTLY?!
Oh, yeah. THE OPS!
Do you or Paul even LISTEN to yourselves?
“Do you or Paul even LISTEN to yourselves?”
Logical inconsistencies are sometimes the only thing supporting errant thought streams.
Insistence on consistency destroys errant thought and leads a thinker right back to:
In The Beginning…
Hi NSA, Kiss… – The less formal education/advocating to maintain status quo stats are just that, statistics. Less formal education is linked to fear-based beliefs and justification of violence. Yes, ops are embedded at every level of society, including the education system, successfully working their voodoo, many even employed with neurophone weaponry. Most people, however, are unaware of that, buy into fear-mongering, and thus justify more and more hate and violence. The recent POTUS nominations prove this.
“Science” in modern times is a religion that people are bullied into accepting. How about one factual response to the oxygen issue?
You KNOW oxygen radiates directly into space, because since the 1970s we’ve used that radiation to measure air temperatures. And to estimate the summer melt of Greenland ice, based on air temperatures. Observed by orbiting satellites.
If it’s cold outside, and all the windows of your house are open, you cannot make it warmer by closing one window.
The oxygen windows are still open. Heat cannot be “trapped” in the atmosphere by being absorbed by water vapor or carbon dioxide or methane. The oxygen is still radiating that heat away.
And that is the problem with your “science” religion. It rigidly excludes common sense.
No, a downvote does not qualify as a fact.
Heat radiates out of the atmosphere at wavelengths not absorbed by water vapor or carbon dioxide or methane.
And while not answering that, check out THIS:
http://www.datasync.com/~rsf1/vel/1918vpt.htm
Scroll down to the “temperature vs. pressure” graph.
Notice 50 km above the surface of Venus, the pressure is our sea-level pressure. Notice the temperature. 15 C or 59 F.
In an atmosphere of 96.5% carbon dioxide.
In other words, if we had as much sunshine and heat as Venus, and an atmosphere of almost pure C02, our temperature would be 59 degrees F.
The heat is absorbed and re-radiated right on into outer space. Nearly pure carbon dioxide doesn’t slow the cooling.
I’d LOVE to hear an answer to that. A fact. Some logic.
Life IS…
BEEF here.
I gave you TWO upvotes. So you know who to blame for the others.
I enjoyed being on the same side of the argument…
…as brief as it was.
Nostalgia and such.
Seems to me the opposition has better things to do than to debate underlings without letters after their names. Just imagine the embarrassment Mr. Paul saved himself by premature self-extrication.
Can you really blame him?
Good Speed.
And God Bless.