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A Conversation with Delamer Duverus (1979) (Taken from a tape recording

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A Conversation with Delamer Duverus (1979)
(Taken from a tape recording)

[Editor's Note: I recently re-established contact with Jenny Miner, who first introduced me to the Delamer Duverus material in 2004. She sent me this tape recording transcript, along with other writings from Delamer Duverus that I'll be positing on an expanded index page devoted to his writings.

"Bab" is the familial name of Earl Aloysius Roberts, who used the name of Delamer Duverus as Editor of a small town weekly newspaper called The American Sunbeam that ceased publication in 1986 after Roberts had passed away. He had a number of people, children and adults, stay at his home and they referred to themselves as the Duverus family. Jenny and her husband Dan, also came to stay with the Duverus family in 1985 and had learned a great deal under his mentoring

"Delamer Duverus" was more than a pen name. You could categorize Delamer as a discarnate being whose consciousness had entered and co-mingled with that of Earl Roberts, producing a stream of information that could only be described as remarkable and extraordinary. The "Visitor" in this conversation is a man named "Larry" who often came to visit. ...Ken Adachi]

Transcript sent by Jenny Miner

ca. 1979

A Conversation with Delamer Duverus (1979)

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Bab: What do you think about the book: “Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars?”

Visitor: I don’t think it’s going to work.

Bab: Can you tell me the weakness in it? Mathematically?

Visitor: No, not mathematically, but generally, they are assuming that everyone is predictable.

Bab: True, but there is something else they overlook. When I was an engineer at the Tucson Medical Center, I went up to repair a refrigeration unit on the roof; it was run on 440 volts. I cut off all of the switches, all the fuses, made sure it was all dead. I went up there to take the wires off that motor and almost knocked myself off the roof. Boy, I blew my top! What I was getting was back-flow from the ground.

Visitor: Coming back up the wire:
Bab: That’s right. Back-flow.

Visitor: Stored up in the magnets in the motor?

Bab: In the earth.

Visitor: Had it been polarized when it went off, or what? Why the attraction?

Bab: It’s called back-flow. Static energy. I grounded it with my body. Now, they are depending on us to furnish the energy for them to control. They have not gone that far in engineering to discover that there is a back-flow to all energy, and it becomes triangulated in some cases, like a triadal coil. I saw that mistake in“1984”. George Orwell wrote that from the inside. He was a graduate of Oxford University, he was on the inside. That was supposed to have been written from an understanding from the inside. One thing that everyone overlooked was the fact that Big Brother had control only over those in that compound, not outside. The outside world couldn’t care less about Big Brother. Only those within the structure of Big Brother’s compound were even effected by or influenced by him. The rest of the world ignored him. The Bible puts it that way, “He who leadeth into the captivity shall go into the captivity; and he who kills by the sword must be killed by the sword.” Those who lead into the captivity will be in the captivity, not us. And they are not going to get any energy that is going to do them any good, except against themselves.

All evil has its own built-in destruct mechanism; they’ve built in their own destruct mechanism in their mathematics. The mistake that humanity makes is using quinoid mathematics instead of sextoid mathematics. That’s why they cannot square the circle. Quinoid mathematics is applicable only to the earth.

Visitor: I’ve asked several physicists about squaring the circle, and they said it couldn’t be done. I said: Do you mean it’s impossible? They said, No, it just couldn’t be done.

Bab: If they even go into space travel or time travel, they’d better be able to square it, or they won’t be able to get where they are going. They’ll get lost. We have a triadic time coordinate We have two positives and a negative. That’s what’s happening in the Bermuda Triangle.

Visitor: It’s reversed?

Bab: In our case we have only a half time coordinate, because we lost one segment which canceled two more, which gives us only one triad instead of two triads; therefore, we bounce out of the area where the alternate time touches down in the Atlantic there where Atlantis used to be, where the tower is still underneath the Atlantic Ocean there. If anybody gets caught up in that time warp, picked up in the negative, bounced into the positive again, there’s no telling where they will end up in this time coordinate (either 10,000 years before or 10,000 years after), where they will end up is a matter of chance, because we have only a half time here.

Visitor: That’s why they’re disappearing?

Bab: The Bible refers in Revelations to “Time, time and a half time.” That’s why we die. When these idiots up there discover this, they’ll stop trying to control the world. They’re too stupid. Quinoid mathematics is applicable only to the earth, and nowhere else. Realize two billion, eight hundred million years ago the Earth was in the orbit now occupied by Uranus. Seedpods are now being found in Africa that were formed when the earth was in the orbit of Uranus. The ancients said that after Earth moved up one orbit, Jupiter was formed, and Jupiter and Aiea (Earth) mated, and produced Uranus.

Now, Jupiter and Earth came together and produced Uranus. That was two billion, eight hundred million years ago. 25,000 years ago, the moon left where the North Pole is right now. At that time the North Pole was on the equator. The Ainu will tell us about that. We lost that segment and the Earth rolled over, and the land was going north and south instead of east and west the way it should have. If Diana (the moon) was where she belongs, the Earth would settle back again and the land would be around the equator, Diana would absorb the waters, purify them, and send them out as a mist to water the entire land. And the land would exist between the waters. Waters above the land, and waters below the land. The stories are written so that they can be understood, but they are determined to interpret them instead of read them. It tells you that in the Bible, the whole story in the Book of Jasher Waters above the land and waters below the land. The land went around the equator. When we lost one segment, it was shot off thereby over-energizing it and it shot off and became the moon; the Earth rolled over.

Visitor: I thought it was caused by an attack from the outside?

Bab: No. Stupidity. It could have been an attack from within or an attack from without, whichever, but stupidity. At that time we broke our ionic layer that is now the Van Allen belt. We exposed ourselves to the deadly rays of the sun, and that was when the power of man was diminished and lessened. 25,000 years ago that happened. It would take less energy to bring the moon back to where she belongs, than it would to take a spaceship up to the moon, in the first place. What they discovered up there . .

Visitor: What would you have to do? Just change the tilt of the Earth?

Bab: Well, no, if they could just jar the moon, to where it would spin off slightly to the North, and Eros would attract it with the Aurora borealis. That’s his power trying to draw his mate to him. But when that happens, the entire Earth is going to be shaken up because all of the segments will go back into place and balance themselves; and many people will die because they are not prepared for it. They do not know how to survive it. There will be great upheaval throughout the Earth when the segments all take their places . . . and balance themselves; harmony through balanced opposition. But immediately after that we will stop dying because the Mother of the Earth, the Queen of Heaven, which is called the moon, will now begin to regenerate the waters, giving us living waters instead of dead waters to drink. It would take less energy to send the moon back, than it would take to go there in a space ship.

Visitor: Do you think it will be done accidentally?

Bab: I hope not. I want the foul creatures either put into a spaceship and sent out into space to let space take care of them or I want them cremated. I do not want their bodies on the Earth. I do not want their blood to return to the Earth.

Visitor: What about their roots?

Bab: They will have neither root nor branch if we cremate them. Cremate them! Burn them! Or put them into spaceships and send them out into space. We don’t want them here. We get rid of them and the moon will come back of her own accord. Get rid of them; they do not belong here. It’s very simply done. Have you ever walked through a valley between two mountains in the sunlight, when the sun is hitting the slopes on one snowy mountain and bouncing off the shade of the other mountain?

Visitor: I’ve driven through it.

Bab: What did you think of that power that you felt passing through you? You can feel it; you can’t hear it, but you think you can hear it. A loud roar that you feel. When the sun hits the side where the snow is and bounces off into the shade, that energy can cause landslides, snow slides . . . that is power. That’s what keeps the Earth turning in its orbit on its axis. Power. You could use that same power at any time you wanted to, to move the moon back just enough for Eros to grab a hold of her and bring her back. I don’t want those maggots here when it happens; but the Bible says they will not be, it says: “blessed be they who are here for the wedding feast” when it happens. “When the bride descends as a bride adorned for her mate,” the queen of Heaven, will descend as a bride adorned for her mate, blessed be they who are here for the marriage festival.

Visitor: I remember the editorial.

Bab: And they want to know why someone wants to kill me. No one would want to harm me! I can predict their downfall, but, believe me, when Man comes to take them, I don’t advise any human being to stand in their way. Man has every one of them marked. We have a book with every one of their names in it, which was written and distributed among mayors and governors and executives of large corporations to identify the enemy. When Man comes to get them, I’m talking about MAN, not humanity; when Man comes to take them, and Man is here now to take them; we’ve got every one of them marked. When we get ready to take them, don’t stand in the way; don’t let them provoke you into a war against Man. They did that once before in the Tower of Babel. Don’t ever let anybody provoke you into a war against Man. Man does not fight wars; He doesn’t use weapons. He doesn’t have to have weapons. He uses the power of Mind, that’s the ultimate weapon, the power of Mind. Give me a thousand people, and let me work with them to become empathetic and have all of them at one time of one mind on any one subject, and I could move the Earth out of its orbit with that one thousand people.

Visitor: In the early testament, wasn’t that the Garden of Eden when that tower existed and then was corrupted?

Bab: Right. We’re not supposed to know good from evil. We’re not supposed to even guess good from evil. We’re not concerned with evil or good, either one. God is not aware of either good or evil; He’s only aware of his own existence. He is neither good nor evil. He is GOD. Therefore, if He is not aware of good or evil, why should we be? Be aware of what is right and what is wrong. What we should be doing and what we should not be doing. Anyone who is concerned with success or failure, I want no part of that man, because we are not concerned with success or failure, because we are not qualified to be successes or failures either one. As long as we are alive, we cannot be failures, nor can we be successful. We can accomplish.

A couple weeks ago, I was in a joking manner with Duverus and I said to Duverus:“According to Revelations, it says and their works do follow them. Does that mean I’ve got to go through this whole thing all over again?” He said: “The works do follow you, not the labors.” You’re building a house, you put labor into it, but the house finished is your work. Your works do follow you, not the labors. I said, “According to the Bible, Jesus said, when He comes again He will come not to bring together, but to separate and divide. Why?” “It is more difficult,” He said, “to conquer one person at a time than it is to conquer an entire religion?” Divide them, separate them so the beast has to conquer them one at a time, and he doesn’t have that much time to go. After the beast is destroyed, then we can come together and become one mind without being corrupted. One mind empathetically. Not one ego, one mind. There is a difference. God never enjoyed anything so much that He created, that He made two of them exactly alike. Thank God He didn’t make two people like me. I couldn’t stand another person like me. We’re all different, and thank God for that. No two people are exactly alike, and we need them all different. That is our own protection; each one of us is different.

Visitor: I went to church for the first time in about nine or ten years this year. This guy I thought he was pretty enlightened, his sermon was about people disliking each other because they are different.

Bab: True, we like people who remind us of ourselves.

Visitor: He didn’t get that far; he wasn’t that enlightened, but the gist of the sermon was God created us differently, and yet we dislike each other because we’re different and yet at the same time
you’re supposed to be worshipping the same God. For a Baptist he’d come a long way really.

Bab: I don’t agree with him. Just like a Baptist minister just recently in Springfield came out and said that God was looking for men of courage. He is not. He can give them courage. He’s looking for men of wisdom. He can give them courage if they’ve got wisdom. He can’t give them wisdom. They’ve got to get that for themselves. Courage He can give; wisdom He cannot. He can offer it, but they’ve got to accept it. No two people are exactly alike. I wouldn’t want anyone exactly like me. I couldn’t stand them. I can’t even stand myself sometimes.

Visitor: What do you do to get away from yourself?

Bab: I become someone else.

Visitor: Bab, what is vanity?

Bab: Vanity is trying to be better than someone else. Having something, I’ve got this, no one else has this; that’s vanity. Why? If you have something and I like it, I enjoy you having it, I don’t want it from you, I just enjoy you having it. Vanity is what makes people want to possess things that they don’t enjoy, because you just want them. Pride. We don’t need pride either. I love my children, and I like my children, I enjoy my children, but I would not hold them in pride, because they’re not my children at all. They belong to themselves; therefore, they are not mine, but I enjoy the fact that they are a part of me and I am a part of them. This is the meaning of pride. I am not proud of them. I just enjoy them.

Visitor: The Orientals teach that pride is a killer.

Bab: It is.

Visitor: They always admire humbleness rather than pride.

Bab: Of course, now, some people practice humility as a matter of pride. Oh, I’m proud I’m a Baptist, I’m proud I’m a Catholic, I’m proud I’m a Jew . . . I’m proud of this, I’m proud of that. Why? Is it not enough that you are without being proud of it? Just enjoy it. Isn’t it strange as an artist I have been friends with very wealthy people who didn’t enjoy a thing that they had. But they enjoyed sharing it with me because I enjoyed it and they enjoyed watching me enjoy it because they couldn’t enjoy it themselves. I never had to be wealthy because I could always act like a wealthy man with someone else’s wealth. I was always welcome. I had something to offer. I had something that they didn’t have, and they welcomed me because they enjoyed getting what I had, and were willing to share what they had in exchange for what I had. People don’t understand themselves. You don’t have to be anything special. Just be good at being yourself. If they can like themselves, anyone can like them. But if you can’t like yourself, how can anyone love you? If you can’t love yourself, how can you love anyone? Love begins with you. You’ve got to love yourself first, enjoy being yourself, and now you can enjoy being with anyone, and you can love anyone. If you can overlook your own faults, you can overlook anybody’s faults, because yours are the worst of all. They belong to you.

Visitor: Would you say President Carter suffers from vanity?

Bab: Carter suffers from self-deception. The man went up there, promised he was going to expose everything that the government has collected about UFO’s, space people and so forth. He got up there, and the Tyreans got close to him and began to talk to him and he thought he was talking to God. The man has been deceived in believing he is in communication with God. That is a deception that Satan always produces, the Cario Tyreans. He is convinced he is in communication with God, and they’re telling him what to do. The man is a fool. He’s isolated, separated from his God, and consumed by another one, an alien god. That’s why he released nothing of the UFO, because they didn’t want him to release UFO knowledge. To me there are no UFO’s. I know what they are, therefore they are not unidentified. The Cario and the Riat. He has not had communication with the Riats because they don’t consider him worthy of it. He has communication with the Cario Tyreans. They are in human form, but if you ever saw them the way they really are they would turn your stomach. They’re in Camp David. They’ve assumed human form by possession. That’s why they wanted the Tibetans out of Tibet. That’s where they exist right now. They wanted the Dali Lama out of there. They wanted all of the Lamas out of there. They chased them out.

Visitor: The CIA was involved in that.

Bab: They kicked the Tibetan Lamas out of Lhasa, Tibet, and have taken over, and that is where they are. If you ever saw them they would turn your stomach. They’re filthy looking creatures. But they managed to escape being destroyed because they disembarked before they were blasted in the Tunguska. Man recognized he had made a mistake because humanity advanced too rapidly after they blasted that ship in the Tunguska. They came back in 1912, and in 1908 when they blasted that ship they thought they had destroyed them. They traced them to this planet, hit them in the Tunguska and destroyed their ship, but they did not know they had disembarked in the Himalayas.

Visitor: Do the Lamas know what’s going on?

Bab: The Dali Lama knows definitely what’s going on. The wizards also know what’s going on there; the wizards and the Magi are still there.

Visitor: There must be wizards in some of those places that they will never find.

Bab: There are. The wizards and the Magi are still there. They’re still in Iran; they’re still in Iraq, but you don’t recognized a wizard unless he tells you who he is or what he is, but he’s not going to do that; he’s not going to identify himself. The Magi, the Adepts, and the Wizards know exactly what happened. In 1908, when Man thought He had blasted them and destroyed them, He chased them here to kill them, to destroy them, but they disembarked and in 1912, when the people began to advance
much more rapidly than they should have, when they started that futurism idea, destruction of all laws, all traditions, Man came back and realized he had made a mistake. He’s been here since 1912 watching it. He’s going to do the same thing now as He did to the Tower of Babel. He will turn one against the other and get them fighting amongst themselves, and destroy the thing that they’ve created. It will happen. Man will be watching them. He wanted to identify, he did not want to harm humanity, but since they occupying human form, He wants to get as many as He can released from their control and then destroy them, because now He knows where they are and what they are. I would not want to be any person who stood in their way. Man does not use weapons; He doesn’t have to. When they used the triangulated triadal coils, they burnt that bridge in Washington. A metal bridge caught fire and burned and collapsed with cars on it, dropped into the cavern below. A solid metal bridge burst into flames in the middle and began to burn. The cars on it fell into the canyon. Several hundred people died in that crash.

Visitor: Who did that?

Bab: They did it by triangulation. Call them the Tyreans. Titans, whatever you call them. They hit the Cadillac Hotel in Chicago. The Cadillac Hotel did not burn as a building. It burned from top to bottom instantaneously. People were jumping out of the windows killing themselves. The air was burning, not the building. A few years ago a Catholic school was hit by their triangulation and those who escaped the blast said that is was not the building, it was the air that was burning around them, the air was burning. Triangulated triadal coil.

Visitor: The oxygen in the air was burning?

Bab: Right. In the center of the triangulation, they found a whole class full of children, with a nun sitting at her desk. All of them sitting there, not burned. All of them dead. None of them burned. They were killed instantaneously by the triangulation the energy taken out of their bodies. The compression just crushed the life out of them. Compression. I’m not going to say any more than that. I don’t intend to give anyone any weapons. They probably don’t understand the full power of that. Anything they do is by accident, chance. They’re trying to play with things they don’t understand; but Man recognized the fact that they advanced too rapidly technologically and not fast enough spiritually, and He realized He had made a mistake. He had not destroyed them; He just destroyed their ship. Recognize something; the ancients said that Zeus came down from Mount Olympus, and the road to Mount Olympus was the Milky Way. Now where would you say Mount Olympus would be then, except in the Pleiades, if the Milky Way is the roadway to Mount Olympus. The Pleiades, the Sisters are called what? The Sibylline Oracles.

The Sibyls are also the Pleiades, the sweet Pleiades. The Book of Job tells you about the Sweet Pleiades. One Pleiades was lost. It was destroyed. You see, we are talking about genetics now. It reminds me of that idiot, the self-appointed scientist. “Life as we know it does not exist anywhere in the Universe.” Life as we know it? What do they know about life? They don’t know about life or death, either one. They fear both. They’re more afraid of life than they are of death. They don’t know anything about either one. Yes, they fear death, they say, or they try to threaten you with death because they fear it more than you do, because it’s the unknown to them. Once you cross the shades, cross the bar and saw the other side, death does not frighten you. You just don’t invite it until your job is finished. You’re under contract to God. You don’t invite it, you don’t look for it, don’t seek it, but it doesn’t frighten you.

Visitor: Since I’ve known you, I haven’t had any fear of dying.

Bab: There is no such thing as death; it’s an illusion. If there were such a thing as death how would I have known that I wrote eighteen books two thousand years ago? I predicted they’d find them and they found them. They have fourteen of them now; there are four of them that they have not found yet. How would I know I was Strieber and the word Strieber means cross-eyed?

Visitor: One spelling is also Roberts spelled backwards.

Bab: Right. Strebor. My right eye was crossed. Therefore, I was identified by the term Strieber, which means crooked-eye. We didn’t have names such as we have today. They describe you; they don’t give you a name. The Indians, the same way, they describe

Visitor: They describe the spirit, though.

Bab: That’s right. So, I had a crooked eye. Strieber.

Visitor: How old is a person before they receive a name in Indian culture? Does it change later on?

Bab: How many people have come into this House and gotten a new name, because when they walked into the House, their name didn’t fit them.

Visitor: I know that, but sometimes it took two weeks, sometimes it took two years.

Bab: I can do it in a minute, it’s just a matter of them becoming used to a new name, that is all. It depends upon how long it takes them to absorb and follow a function, a pattern. Once you establish your function, your pattern, now you’re got a name, you’ve got an identity. Your function is more important than any label put on you. What you are. If you’re an engineer, then you should be called one. What you do is more important that who you are. It’s your work that will live after you, not you. They’ll forget your name, but they will never forget what you have done if it’s important. Therefore, if you get identification for what you have done, you will live forever. There is no death. You could
trace back your history to the beginning of time if you wanted to, if it was important to you.

Visitor: It’s coming back to me in my dreams, somewhat. I keep having a reoccurring dream I’ve had since I can remember my dreams, of drowning in deep water.

Bab: There’s a song about that: “Wishes are the dreams we’d dream when we are awake.” We get out of our way when we are asleep, without blocking our path. We lose our fear and now we have omplete and total freedom to go out and find what we are looking for because there’s nothing standing in our way. So a dream, in a dream world, which is not really a very real world, you could penetrate solid walls, go through time or space without anything stopping you, now you are free. If you are relaxed and rest, but how many people sleep but do not rest?

Visitor: When you’re resting, two hours is a lot. My ability to rest depends on how much I enjoy what I’m doing.

Bab: Yes, accomplishment. You have to rest spiritually, mentally, and physically. If you’re not resting spiritually, mentally, and physically, you’re not resting at all, you’re tearing yourself down. But the moment you start resting properly, you stop growing old.

Visitor: I asked you last time what was your secret; you said I’d tell you.

Bab: It’s rest. After all, when you sleep, you’re regenerating your body. When you’re resting, you’re regenerating your mind and your spirit both, and your body, also. So, as I’ve pointed out to many people, how many times have you seen a man 80 years old with hands this steady?

Visitor: I thought you were 84.

Bab: No, I’m 80. I was born in 1900.

Visitor: Two years ago I watched you tap dance for an hour and a half.

Bab: I was still tap dancing after you left.

Visitor: That’s damned hard work for me, dancing.

Bab: I enjoy it, roller-skating, the same way. I came over and put my skates on a couple of weeks ago. Everybody went home when they got exhausted and I was still skating. When I got tired of being alone, I went home, too. There’s no reason why we should grow old. No reason. I remember hearing as a child; you can die at 100 years old and still die young. Just give up and decide I’m tired of staying here; I’m going to go someplace else. Going through time or space you can’t take your body with you.
The body belongs to the Earth. It came from the Earth, it remains here. If you were to try to leave here with this body, you would have to reconvert it from one thing into another, change the entire structure of the body to leave here and go someplace else.

You couldn’t survive anywhere else in this body. It’s built and designed to survive here at this time on this planet. But if you expand yourself through time and space, then you can be anywhere you choose to be, at any time you choose to be. So you become bigger and spread out. Now, as I pointed out, when I was in Paris, I didn’t want to leave Paris. I love Paris. I didn’t want to leave it, and I realized I had to go and leave, so I took Paris with me. I found it was so easy to consume a city spiritually that from that time on I consumed every city I liked and wanted to be in. I took it with me. I found out it was so easy to consume these cities; it was just as easy to consume a whole country or an entire world, or an entire solar system, or an entire universe; and once you con sume it, it becomes a part of you, and once it becomes a part of you, you can study it at will. But you must consume it and make it a part of yourself first. Then you have plenty of time. Just like most people will study a book.

Visitor: You have to be very careful what you consume.

Bab: That’s right. Stay away from mental diseases. Physical diseases you can cure, but stay away from mental diseases. Consuming Solar Systems and Universes is easy, it becomes a part of you and you study it; but many people study a book one sentence at a time. They learn nothing. Why not scan the book and consume the entire book and then study it at your leisure? Everyone has the ability to do that. Photographic memory, everyone has it.

Visitor: Really?

Bab: Sure

Visitor: You just have to be aware of it.

Bab: Well, you get into the habit of scanning, and then you step back and you review what you’ve scanned at your leisure. You review after you scan it. That kept me alive in combat, believe me.

Visitor: How did you use it?

Bab: Reading maps and reading orders. Flash it on and off and you photograph it, and from that time on you can read it in the dark.

Visitor: I think this whole country might be in combat, you know.

Bab: We are now in combat.

Visitor: I mean hand to hand.

Bab: They want us to start the war and I have no intention of doing it for them.

Visitor: I have no intention of giving up without a fight.

Bab: The first one that becomes violent in this war is the one that will lose the war. See, a man does not become violent unless he is defeated and beaten. As long as you’re convinced that you’re winning the battle, you don’t have to become violent. Let them become violent first, and they have admitted that they have lost the war when they become violent and begin to attack you. They lost the war at the moment they begin to attack you. Make them attack first, don’t ever, ever rise up against anything or anybody, because now you admit you’re defeated if you rise up in anger or violence. If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword.

Visitor: I’ve only fought three times in my life, and twice I was dangerous because I was angry, and once I was just protecting myself. Do you think anger is necessary?

Bab: No. Indignation is, but not anger. When a man is angry, he doesn’t think clearly. You can become indignant and become very analytical. Righteous indignation, not anger. Anger resteth in the bosom of fools. We have won the war and they know it, which is why they are about ready to become violent. That should be more and more obvious. They are no longer able to divide and turn us one against the other, we’re bringing people together, through understanding, and this is infuriating them; they’ve got to become violent because they’re losing the battle and we know it. They are losing the battle and they’re trying too hard to convince us that we’ve lost it already; they’re trying too hard. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. (About her virtue.) When they try that hard to convince me that I am defeated and beaten and don’t stand a chance, I know that they’re lying; otherwise, they wouldn’t be trying so hard to convince me; I would know it. We have won the war, but they don’t want to admit it.

Visitor: Tell “D” something about Transcendental Meditation. I’ve forgotten your thoughts about it. She’s been exposed to some of it, and I’ve been critical of it. I don’t know if I’ve been critical in the right way.

Bab: An unbranded calf belongs to anyone who wants to grab it, possess it. Same thing applies to a mind. Keep your mind, it belongs to you. See, you contribute your support, your strength to something bigger than yourself, but you don’t give your mind to anybody or anything. “Keep your own council, and let no man take thy crown.” Once you let your mind go free, without destination, in transcendental meditation, you’ve lost it because somebody is going to grab it and use it against you. Your mind belongs to you. Hang on to it. Always direct it; don’t ever let it run free. Keep it under control at all times. Set your destination, and don’t ever loose sight of your destination; let nothing stop you on your way to your destination. But you contribute your support, your strength to that which you know to be good, but give your mind to nobody and nothing. God doesn’t expect it, doesn’t ask for it; so, herefore don’t give it to anything or anybody. It belongs to you. Your species gave it to you, hang on to it; let no one take it.

Visitor: The idea of having this, what do they call them, Mantras da da da da da, so that you don’t hear anything or know anything. You block out anything, good or bad, with a mantra. It’s supposed to protect you from evil, but it also protects you from good. What is this I’ve heard about a bumper sticker warning,“This driver may at any time go into rapture.”

Bab: The fundamentalists think that they will be taken bodily up into the heavens. They don’t realize that their body isn’t a space ship. They don’t understand the allegorical usage of air, clouds, and water. Saint John described what he meant by what he said:“The water upon which the woman sitteth” would be people, multitudes and nations, all these things had a meaning.

Visitor: No, that’s all been replaced with fear, hate, shame, guilt, lust, greed and prejudice. No, not prejudice, ignorance.

Bab: Well, prejudice is ignorance. Ignorance is prejudice.

Visitor: You mean what you don’t know makes you prejudiced?

Bab: No. Prejudice is a type of fear of the unknown. Instead of trying to understand what it is, you become prejudiced against it. The Germans said during World War II “Gotsedunes” (sp?), “God is with us;” Khrushchev said, “God is on the side of the Russian people;” religionists in this country say, “God is on our side.” I wrote in the “Sunbeam”, “Vaya Con Dios.” It is more important for us to go with God than it is for us to ask God to go with us. How can God be on our side if we have violated every one of His Laws? Maybe we have not personally, but we have supported the religions that have supported the government that has violated every one of His Laws, therefore, we’re guilty of it,
of what our government has done in our name.

When a government violates every one of the Laws of God within a very short time, intentionally, and we support that government, and support religions that support the World Council of Churches that is totally destroying human life in Africa, the World Council of Christian Churches. These people are fighting for their liberty. Bullshit! They’re cannibals. They’re beasts. They are beasts. And we are supporting them with these Christian religions that support the World Council of Christian Churches. And yet they say: “But God is on our side.” Now, why would He want to be on our side if we are violating His Laws or supporting a govern ment that violates His Laws or a religion that violates His Laws? He’s not on our side, but we had better get on His side, and damned fast. Go with God. I’ll never forget the old Mexican who told me that; it was very beautiful. He was probably illiterate, but he knew that much.

Visitor: That’s some very spiritual country.

Bab: And totally insane. They have the 5th of May down there and they have skyrockets shooting at each other’s faces, setting off big bombs right in the middle of a crowd. That was crazy! I don’t know how they didn’t end up in the hospital, all of them. Cinco de Mayo, that’s their independence day own there.

Visitor: Argentina’s is tomorrow. Isn’t today the 9th? Yes.

Bab: I was staying in a motel down there and there was a road coming down like this and the motel was down below; and I was lying in bed there in my underwear, no shades on the windows at all. All of a sudden I looked up and there were a couple of girls looking down my window, waving at me! Completely uninhibited. That’s the first time I found out that all Mexicans did not have a dark complexion with brown eyes. A number of them from Mexico City were blonde, blue-eyed.

Visitor: The Spanish, yes. We don’t make a distinction. Mexicans are Indians primarily.

Bab: The Spanish came in and tried to make slaves out of them, and that’s why you see the work ethic never did take hold down there because they have a relatively skilled labor force and any Spaniard who had any social status, resource of anything could afford labor. Actually it was looked down upon to do manual work. Well, nudity is considered to be immoral in this country, and yet this is the most immoral country. In Mexico I found out that they don’t even pay any attention to nudity at all. It doesn’t even bother them. They don’t think it is immoral.

Visitor: They judge morality on your intentions.

Bab: That’s right. As an artist, I appreciate that.

Visitor: The ones who haven’t been over Catholicized, or what have you, canonized.

Bab: Well, even the Catholics down there are very uninhibited.

Visitor: I’ve found to my surprise that one of the most puritanical or prudish countries is India.

Bab: They are.

Visitor: That surprised the hell out of me; all of the erotic art work that came from there, the beautiful art work.

Bab: All Moslem countries are that way, too.

Visitor: Very prudish, but, of course, India’s changed because they’ve got several million Christians there now and they’ll put away with it. You see the women are still regarded as chattel There’s something wrong. I’ve come to understand it a little better than I used to. It needs a lot of changes. The British didn’t finish their job there.

Bab: They shouldn’t have started it in the first place.

Visitor: You’re right. But they didn’t finish what they started.

Bab: What I couldn’t understand in the middle of New Delhi, they had a big empty lot, and they went around every day emptying the toilet pots into a cart and dumping it into the middle of town there on a hot, humid day. The human dung is rotten down in the middle of town there and they use it for fertilizer.

Visitor: The collect the cow dung and sell it for firewood. They don’t recognize that today is the building block for tomorrow.

Bab: Even the Gautama Buddha condemned them during his time. He said why would they want to punish the body, what has the body done to them? He said: “I saw a man standing in the forest holding onto a branch and the bark grew over his hand Why? I saw another man lying in the forest letting the bugs eat him to mortify the flesh. Why? What has the flesh done to them that they would want to humiliate it and degrade it?”

Visitor: They’re puritanical about that.

Bab: That’s not puritanical. That’s complete depravity. The Gautama Buddha was against it. I remember one of the arguments. A merchant one time when the Gautama Buddha was preaching and saying that people were different every day, and the merchant said, “I don’t think that is true. We’re the same people always; we’re not changing.” The Gautama said: “You don’t change?” He said, “No, we’re the same people.” Gautama said, “When you were a child you threw stones at a dog just to watch the dog yelp, didn’t you?” The merchant said, “Well, that’s true.” Gautama said, “Well, why don’t you do it today?” He said, “I’m not the same person . . . I got your point.” You’re different. You change every day. Each day is a new life, a new day. You don’t do it now because you’re not the same person you were at that time. What I like about his philosophy was what he told a little girl, a tiny, little shepherd girl. He was resting under a banyan tree and this little girl asked him if he was a holy man and he said, “Well, you could call me a holy man.” She said,“Why don’t you come down and talk to the people in my village, all of them are fighting constantly. There’s no peace anywhere in the village. Talk to them and see if you can get them to get along together.” He said, “Why don’t you do it?” She said, “I’m not old enough.” He said, “Little girl, you’re older than I am.”

Many people didn’t get the point of that. She was just starting out in life, before her life was one continuous flow. He was ending his, she was beginning hers, therefore she was older than he was and that’s true, because she had a span of life ahead of her and he was closing his down.

The seven levels of consciousness or the seventh heaven as they sometimes refer to it. It is the same as talked about in our Bible; the seven golden candlesticks, the seven pillars of wisdom, the seven churches, seven languages, seventh heaven, seven platitudes, always when you get to the seventh level of consciousness, you are totally free because you’re in a different dimension. And you’re aware of that freedom. You’re no longer a part of this world. As the Christ said, “They are not of this world, even as I am not of this world.” He reached that seventh level of consciousness. Total freedom beyond contribution.

You contribute yourself and become a part of it, and once you become a part of it, you’ve given up your life to inherit an everlasting life, and you’ve lost yourself to find yourself in your people; and now you step into a different dimension; the seventh level of consciousness, seventh pillar wisdom, self-realization. Now you know who you are, what you are, where you are, where you came from, where you’re going and why. Now you’re in a different dimension entirely; and in the mobius strip, as you reach this point here in the seventh pillar wisdom, you’re starting a different dimension, the negative part of your dimension, where languages become pillars of wisdom and pillars of wisdom become languages. You start out in this one with the awareness of being and love, you follow it through, you get to allegory and the self-realization; and now it reverses and now the languages become the pillars of wisdom and the pillars of wisdom become the languages and now you are opposing yourself for substantiation in the mobius strip of the eternity.

Visitor: You have completeness.

Bab: Exactly. Now your are whole, and complete, but you can’t do it alone, you’ve got to either develop a dual polarity, parthenogenetic androgyny, become empathetic, or else you have to combine
with some other person and become one mind.

Visitor: That’s what marriage is, becoming one.

Bab: Marriage, but so few actually marry or mate. They come together to battle rather than to become one. Compete with one another. Marriage is something more important. Marriage is a union of two minds becoming one. When a woman goes looking for a man, they’re not looking for a man, they’re looking for themselves in that man, because it’s the female hormones that make the man masculine; and the male hormones that make the woman feminine, and therefore the man goes looking for himself in the woman and the woman goes looking for herself in the man and they find themselves in each other and now they unite and become one. But, by becoming one out of two, they become a triad, they’re three now. It’s the invisible force that holds them together, call the Holy Ghost. That Holy Ghost can become a child, or it doesn’t have to be, it can still exist as a potential. The Love that Binds the Universes Together, the Holy Ghost. Now, someone said that Pope John Paul the Second blessed Jimmy Carter. He did not bless Jimmy Carter. He prayed for him!

Visitor: He said he needed prayer.

Bab: What were his exact words? “God have mercy on you for what you have done.”

Visitor: Holy shit!

Bab: And he said he blessed him? “God have mercy on you for what you have done?” That’s blessing? That’s like the blessings of Jacob for his twelve sons. If those were blessings, give me the curses!

Visitor: That reminds me of that joke. The political campaign manager is talking to the politician and tells him that he needs to go to Dallas, and the politician is saying, no, no, I need to go to Houston, they’re telling lies about me there. The campaign manager says no, man, you need to go to Dallas. The politician says, look, I’ve got to go to Houston, they’re telling lies about me there. The campaign manager says no, you’ve got to go to Dallas, they’re telling the truth about you there.

Bab: Pope John Paul did not bless Jimmy Carter, he said, “May God have mercy on you.”

Visitor: What about the Benedictine Monks?

Bab: That was funny. He had a breakfast of cheese, bread and wine with the Benedictine Monks.

Visitor: What does that signify?

Bab: They had him and all the other leaders of the nations to breakfast in the Benedictine monastery. The Benedictine Monks were not impressed by him. But Pope John Paul did not bless him at all; no way did he bless him! Pope John Paul has complete contempt for that man, and that was obvious when he visited him.

Visitor: Yes, he kind of snubbed him.

Bab: Snubbed him? He looked at Carter as if he was looking at some stupid boy who just got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, with complete contempt. You know, this man, it’s strange that they appointed one Pope, John Paul the First, he was not acceptable. He died, they did not kill him. He died because he was not acceptable. Suddenly, there was a John Paul the Second. Why? From John the Baptist to Paul, St. Paul who gave us the New Testament. A span of life between John the Baptist and Saul who was a Pharisee and converted to Christianity. There’s a symbolism there. The first thing this man said when he was made Pope was “NO MORE WARS.” He did not say please, he said “NO MORE WARS” and he meant it. Now, the Communists came out and said that this man is not fit to be Pope because he is not a celibate, he was married when he was twenty-three years old and his wife died and he became a priest, therefore . . . but the Catholic Church does not require a man to be a celibate until after he becomes a priest, not before. What they forgot was this: His wife died in a communist slave camp at the age of 23. He has no love for the communists. That’s wrong!

He got along fine with the communists! Well, you’d better believe he got along fine with the communists. He had to. But he had no love for them. And who better could destroy the communists than one who was on the inside and knew it from the inside out? After all, Paul was a Pharisee or lawgiver and he converted to Christianity. He became the first of the apostles. John Paul. No homosexual priests. No women could be priests. No mini-skirts for nuns! One nun said, “Well, someone should have briefed the holy father before he came here so he’d know more about the conditions in this country.”

He couldn’t have cared less about the conditions in this country. He didn’t come here to be briefed; he came here to brief them. The man is good. You see, the Catholic Church was founded upon the family, the spiritual family. Father, mother, the sister, the brother; and you cannot have a homosexual as a father, or a woman as a father. You have the father, the mother superior, the sisters and the brothers; it’s a spiritual family and the woman cannot be a father anymore than a man can be a mother. He was telling them something that they didn’t remember. The Catholic Church is a spiritual family and always has been. But everything he has done so far has had terrific results and the lluminati is scared to death of this man and his freedom, because he does not fear them. He does not fear them, he goes wherever he wants to go and they have never terrified him or intimidated him yet. Somebody said he was going to get himself killed. He said, “I don’t think so. Why would they want to kill me? I’m not going there as their enemy; I’m going there as their friend, to advise.”

How can they kill a man who goes there with a sense of love? And no one yet has raised his hand in anger against that man. Wherever he goes he’s respected, looked up to and admired. What he says, he says straight out. If nothing, the one thing that would sell that man to me is the fact that children do not fear him, they don’t cry when he picks them up. They love him. Any time a child grabs onto a man like they grab onto that man, he’s good enough for me. I trust children’s judgment at all times. No other Pope has every approached a child without scaring the hell out of that child. That man draws children to him like flies to sugar.

Visitor: He enjoys children.

Bab: He loves them. His wife died in a slave camp in Russia, but they forget about that real fast when they start accusing him of not being a celibate because he had been married. His wife died when he was 23 and he became a priest. But they didn’t know that his wife died in a communist slave camp. Good man. John Paul. Don’t forget Saul was a Pharisee, a lawgiver, he converted, became the foremost of the apostles. Don’t forget that Saul was only twelve years old at the time of the crucifixion and he hated the disciples because they did not come forth and testify to save the life of the Christ. He didn’t understand that. He hated them; he persecuted them because of it. He was twelve years old, and he stood next to John, Saint John the Divine, and watched the crucifixion. He was the only one of the apostles except John who watched the crucifixion.

The rest of them were hiding in basements, terrified. He watched it and he hated them for it because they didn’t come forth to testify to save His life. Later on when he understood, he overcame his hatred of them and began to understand that the Christ did not die on that cross; those who crucified him did. He was an empath. He put them in his place. They crucified themselves. They’ve been crucified ever since. That’s why He said, “Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do.” They didn’t. They were crucifying themselves, not Him. “Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani.” He said. After saying forgive them Father for they know not what they do, He cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi Eloi Lama Sabachthani.” The Jewish scholars said behold he calls upon Elias, let us see if Elias comes down to help him on that cross. The Jews didn’t understand what He said; they thought He had called upon Elias. The Catholic Church knows what he said. He said, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Now, why would He say that after saying, “Father, forgive them?” Does that make sense to you?

Visitor: No.

Bab: He was speaking in Coptic. “Eloi, Eloi” means “Hold, Hold.” “Lama Sabachthani” means the hour of the Sabbath. And the sun set at noon. And darkness was upon the face of the land. They had to take him down from that cross. The sun set at noon. Coptic. He spoke it fluently. Don’t forget, the first Christian church was founded by an Ethiopian Prince who was cured of leprosy and who spoke Coptic. The Christ spoke Coptic, too.

Visitor: What did it mean in Coptic?

Bab: “Eloi, Eloi Lama Sabachthani” means “Hold, Hold, the hour of the Sabbath.” The sun set at noon. They got the message but they still shook the earth to let them know just how much they could do with infrasonic beams. The mountains were shaken in their foundations and darkness was upon the face of the land. There was lightening and thunder and earthquakes in divers places throughout the holy land Judea. They hit it with an infrasonic beam to let them know what they could have done had He died on that cross. He was translated immediately afterward. That story is beautiful. They should come out and tell the whole story.

Visitor: The Catholic Church is suppressing it?

Bab: Well, no, they don’t understand it.

Visitor: The Sibylline Oracles give a more lucid account of it. They leave out a lot of the details, but they make it very clear why the sun set at noon.

Bab: If the story were told most of the idiots wouldn’t believe it because they’ve been following the religious thought, but the scientists that understood these things would believe it and they would be amazed at the things that happened during those days, at that time. Natural phenomena, but caused. The sun set at noon and they had to take Him down because now the Passover had begun and they couldn’t leave him hanging. So, Josephus of Arimathea, who knew who this man was, went to Pontius Pilot and begged for His body because he didn’t dare let him be buried in a crypt that had been occupied by a dead body before. He built a whole new tomb for him, a whole new crypt because he knew who He was. He could not be close to death. The Man was from Life, not from death. He begged His body and he and Pontius Pilot sat on the steps of the basilica and cried. They cried. He got the body; they placed it in the crypt and Annas, I refer to him as Anus,

Annas said we have made a mistake. They didn’t intend to crucify Him; they thought He was going to break and beg for mercy. Then they were going to let Him go. He didn’t beg, and they couldn’t stop the crucifixion because the mob had gone wild. Lest we make another mistake and compound the first one, let’s watch that tomb and make sure His disciples don’t steal Him away and say He has risen from the dead as He predicted. Let’s guard the tomb so they can’t steal his body. So, they placed soldiers who were in the service of the High Priest.

Visitor: They weren’t Roman Soldiers?

Bab: No. They sent the priests’ soldiers to guard the tomb and make sure the disciples didn’t come and steal the body away. And it was those soldiers that were employed by the high priests who testified that they were astonied, they were frozen, they couldn’t move. All of a sudden a bright light appeared. It was just like it was daylight coming when it was several hours before daylight. Suddenly this bright light appeared and then a Man appeared in front of them; a young Man with golden hair. He walked up and he touched the stone and the stone rolled aside. I think it took twelve men to put that stone up there and one young boy touched it and it rolled aside. He went in there and came back out again, stood there and went into a cloud.

They said he disappeared into a mist. A second later, three of them came back down, a young man and two more came down, and two of them went in and carried the body out and the young man stayed there. The two carrying the Christ disappeared into a cloud and the young man stayed there. When the women came down there to dress the body supposedly, the young man was sitting there. “If you’ve come for your Master, He is gone, He is not here.” And he got up and walked out and he disappeared. Now they could move. But so long as that young man was there they could not move, they were frozen, they said they were astonied; they testified to that. And the high priest Annas told them to keep it to themselves, don’t tell anybody. A short time later He met Mary and some other women on the path into Jerusalem, and said,“Don’t touch me, I have not yet ascended, don’t touch me.”

Visitor: What was the meaning of that?

Bab: He was not yet translated. He was not completely translated, therefore they could not touch Him; they would be harmed by His body. He was still in the process of transformation. The whole cellular structure must change when you change from positive to negative to move into a different dimension, into time. If they had touched Him they would have been electrocuted like that (snap of fingers). It was a holograph, so they thought. Isn’t it strange now several days later He appeared to His disciples on the shore of the Sea of Galilee? They were out there fishing and He called to them and said, “Cast your nets on the other side of the boat and you will bring in fish.” They did and they came ashore and they cooked the fish and He sat down and ate fish with them. A short time later when they reported it, no one believed it. Thomas wouldn’t believe it. He had been crucified. It was no deception He told Thomas. You have seen and did not believe. What about those who came after you who believe without having seen? Now, if the whole story were told as it happened, it would be more amazing than the story they tell today. Today they humanize Him. At that point He was no longer human.

Visitor: I don’t understand the contradiction that if the Essene Christians are known to have died fearlessly, why is it that the Christ would appear dead and have said, “My God, My God, why
hast thou forsaken me,” when He was on the cross?

Bab: Before that, He looked down. John was comforting His mother, Mary. He looked down at John and His mother and said,“Mother, behold thy son, son, behold thy mother.” Now, they misinterpret that, also. What He was saying, He was giving John in place of Himself. He was replacing Himself with John, who was his cousin, by the way, John the Divine. He took that crucifixion in stride. The day before the crucifixion he was summoned before Pontius Pilot in the Basilica and Pontius Pilot begged him to leave Jerusalem. He said they are out to get Him. It was Pontius Pilot who told Him that one of His own people was going to betray Him to the priests Chaiphus and Annas. He didn’t know who it was so Jesus, to find out who it was, washed their feet to find out who had clean feet. You had to have clean feet and shave yourself before you went into the temple. When He got to Judas Iscariot He knew who betrayed Him because Judas was the only one who had clean feet and they had just returned from a long journey. He washed their feet and Judas had clean feet, and He knew who had betrayed him. That’s why He told Judas at the last supper, “Now, hurry and go do what you must do. You agreed to do it, do it.” And Judas left.

Later on when Judas came with the priests and walked up and kissed Him, He said, “Would you betray me with a kiss?” Why? That was against the laws of Moses. Any man showing any affection to any other man in a public place could be stoned to death, because that was an indication he was a homosexual. Judas Iscariot was a known homosexual and therefore what he was saying was that the Christ was a homosexual and therefore could be stoned to death under Mosaic Law. That’s why Jesus asked him, “Would you betray me with a kiss?” Are you accusing me of being a homosexual? Now, Judas Iscariot, when he realized what he had done, he didn’t expect the Christ to be put to death; the priests did not intend to put Him to death. They wanted to humiliate Him, to discredit Him before the masses. But they couldn’t and now, when the priests gave Judas the thirty pieces of silver, Judas refused to receive them because he said that he did not intend to see the Christ crucified. He tossed them back at the priest and the priest said we can’t put them back in the treasury because there is blood on the money. They used it to buy the potters field to bury the unknown dead.

Blood money. Thirty pieces of silver, and Judas refused to accept it because he did not intend to see the Christ crucified, he just wanted to see Him humiliated, because Judas was a homosexual and the Christ had turned him down, refused to have anything to do with him and told him so. Like all homosexuals he was insulted; he was offended because he could not become a homo with the Christ. No. Jesus was far from being a homosexual. Ask Mer I Mazda Lena whether He was a homosexual or not. He was all man. Mer I Mazda Lena means “Mother of the Pillar of Light.” He’s the one who gave her that name. The story should be written as it happened, but most Christians wouldn’t believe it. If He walked down the street today in Levis, they would want to crucify Him all over again, the Christians, not the Pharisees, not the Jews. The Christians would crucify Him if He came here in Levis. They expect Him to walk down the street in a long white robe with sandals and a long beard. That was the mode of the day. Everybody dressed that way.

He would not appear any different from anybody else if He came here today and walked down the street, but they’re too stupid to understand that. Any child they touch could be the Christ, they don’t know that. He could come up and tell them, “I am the Christ.” If they didn’t believe Him, they’d crucify Him again. If He weren’t a Baptist, they’d crucify Him. If He weren’t a Catholic, they’d crucify Him. Or if He weren’t a Methodist or Episcopalian, they’d crucify Him. One Catholic boy here not too long ago from the (somewhere) was down here. I said what would you do if you saw the Christ in Levis? He wouldn’t wear Levis, he said. I said why? Because they’re manufactured by a Jew! He said.

Visitor: I had an interesting conversation the other day. This guy got after me because of my beard. He called me a hippy and said, “You guys all want to look like Jesus.”

Bab: You know if Christ had had a safety razor, He would have used it. He might have if everyone else used them. If He came here today He’d be just like anybody else, no different. He’s not going to make it easy for you to identify Him. You’ve got to know Him without having to identify Him by name. As far as four letter words, He had quite a supply of four letter words that He used frequently. The word “Raca” means Shit. He accused one of the Pharisees. Raca, he said. You shit. He talked about the prodigal son pissing his fortune against the wall. He spoke like that. He was no bigot. He lived among these people. That’s why the Pharisees condemned Him. They said He worked with inferiors. He said, does a man who is not sick have need of a physician? No. It is the sick who need the physician, not the well. You don’t think you need a physician and they do. He lived among them, He was not afraid of them. He was not afraid of disease or sickness. He wasn’t even afraid of mental diseases, which most people should be deathly afraid of. We’re talking about Man, not a human being, a MAN. A Man with a dual polarity, an androgyne, both male and female in one body. Complete in itself. Parthenogenetic androgyne. Totally empathetic.

That was how He was able to translate or transfer the ones who were crucifying Him into His body. They were crucifying themselves. They felt the pain, He did not. In so far as the horrible story that they put gall in his mouth, vinegar and gall, Christians get the idea that they took the gall from chickens or cattle and put the gall in His mouth. The gall that they put in His mouth was a painkiller. It was an herb. Gall is an herb, a painkiller. The vinegar was to quench His thirst; it was not the vinegar we have today, acetic acid. It was wine vinegar, to quench His thirst, and the gall to kill the pain. Oh, how horrible, they say, gall and vinegar to torment Him. They used a sponge to quench His thirst. They didn’t want Him dead, they wanted Him to beg for mercy and He did not. They wanted Him to admit that He was not the Son of God, and He would not. Pontius Pilot wrote, Iesus Rex Jude, Iesus Nazaranus Rex Judea INRI. Here hangs the King of the Jews. The priests said that He said He was King of the Jews, not that He was. Pontius Pilot said, “What I have written I have written. You’ve crucified your own king, the only one who is fit to be a king among you.” Did you know that Pontius Pilot died in Greece, cursing every one of the Jews that were involved? He died of arthritis, through hate. He died at a Greek spa, cursing them for everything they had done. They used the Christ to destroy him, he said. To discredit him. They used him. He died cursing them. He said that when he went there he wanted to make a beautiful country out of Judea, many of them were dying, sick from drinking polluted waters.

They’d go out in the gutters in front of their homes and drink filthy water and think nothing of it. They would get sick and were dying from diseases picked up from the dirty waters. He wanted to give them something of value so he employed them to build a reservoir to hold clean water for them. They’re money-grubbers, he said. I would employ them all day long to build a reservoir for their own good and they’d sneak back at night and tear down everything they had done during the day so they would get paid to do it again the next day. What can you do with people like that? Those were his own words. Everything he tried to do for them, they tore down. They were only interested in money. Money-grubbers, he called them that. I have a coin from that period, a gold coin similar from the one He took out of the fish’s mouth, with Caesars image on it. The one about which He said, “Whose picture is on that coin? Caesars? Then give unto Caesar that which is Caesars, and give unto God that which is God’s.” I have one of those gold coins, a Dinar. I have also a widow’s mite, which He referred to. I have a number of copper and gold coins from that period. People ask me how did you get them. I don’t know how I got them; I just have them, that’s all. Where did they come from? They came from off the coast of Greece, from a sunken ship. If the entire story was written as it happened, people would not believe it, but they should. It happened just that way. I’m not a religionist. I’m a scientist.

Visitor: The true story makes so much more sense. There’s nothing you can romanticize about.

Bab: Of course it does. When you tie it together, it makes sense. It proves itself. At that time I was in Damascus, living in Damascus. I knew all about that story. My mother and father were both dead at that time; I was alone. I could have gone to Babylon, but I did not. I had no intention of going back into Egypt or into Babylon at that time. I liked Luxor when I lived there. Thebes where I studied at the temples of Karnack, I liked also, but during the uprising there, the revolution became so violent
my parents took me from there into Damascus to get away from it. I adapted to Damascus. I liked it. I enjoyed sitting at the Phrygian wall. There is a great deal more knowledge at the Phrygian wall than there was at the temples of Karnack, believe me. People would not believe the story if it was told as it really happened. But then people living today and seeing things that are rare and unusual might find them unbelievable. If I had not lived this long to see it, I would not have believed the story of what is going on today. And yet 2,000 years ago John and Paul wrote about this and they could not understand or explain it.

And yet, we are watching it and we can’t explain it and understand it. It’s that fantastic, that unbelievable that this could happen in the world today. That we could have a government like this, that could get by with a congress letting it get by with treason and murder. Our government is guilty of every abominable crime on the face of the Earth, and now congress has done nothing to stop that maggot up there. He has broken every law in the books, violated every concept of our constitution, and they have done nothing to stop him. If I had not lived this long to see it, I would not have believed it as a child that this could have happened in this country. And yet it is happening, and two thousand years ago a man sat on the Isle of Patmos and wrote about it and he couldn’t believe it, but he wrote about it anyway. He couldn’t explain it because it was unexplainable.

The beast with many eyes round about, the United Nations building. He saw it, he could not explain it, couldn’t understand it but he said it represented many nations around the world, the beast with eyes round about. The United Nations. But then, the Zuni Indians and the Acama Indians both know about this, too. They went to the United Nations to warn them that when this building is built representing all nations of the world with eyes round about that, the earth would roll over and change orbits and move one orbit closer to the sun. They should be prepared for it. The Indians went there to tell them that, that their wise men had passed this legend on down to them. They thought it was a big joke, they laughed about it. Indians don’t joke about things like that, believe me. The Indians also have legends about the Christ, who was here before the advent of Christianity on this continent. Only they had the Christ born as twins and He went through all the trials and tribulations, but He ascended into heaven on a rainbow. The twins. They became one and ascended into heaven on a rainbow. How do you account for that? Because the Christ was androgynous. He was both male and female, therefore, the twins in one body. They don’t have any written Bible, it was passed on down from father to son, the wise men. They are not pagans.

Isn’t it strange, the Lady of Guadeloupe? TD who was a friend of mine was in Mexico looking for gold. He was sick with fever. It was rainy, cold and miserable. He lay down next to an old adobe hut. He woke up in this hut that was not all together. There was a fire burning and a woman was there doctoring him, giving him broth and bringing his fever down and told him he would be alright. He went back to sleep again and woke up the next morning and was completely well. The woman was gone. He built a chapel there in the Santa Catalina Mountains. They call her the Lady of Guadeloupe. He described her to the Mexicans and they knew all about her. She appears from time to time in Mexico. Isn’t it strange that the Indians, when the so-called white man first came here, started teaching about the Christ? They knew about Him.

They said that some woman had been here and appeared to them and doctored them, took care of them, taught them about the birth of Christ long before the Spanish ever landed here. Isn’t it strange that at the same time in the Southern part of France, a nun would go into trances and come back and describe these people she had been with. They thought that she was a heretic; they said she was evil, possessed by evil spirits and so forth. And yet she was describing the very thing that they later on found to be true. She had been here with these people teaching them about the Christ. Later on, something like two hundred years later, the Spanish came here and were told about this woman who appeared to the Indians, in the flesh, and she was still in the South of France in a trance. They thought she was possessed by devils. They wanted her to confess to being an apostate.

Visitor: Wasn’t that St. Teresa?

Bab: I think it was. (jumbled conversation abut the change in language)

Bab: I don’t mind them changing the pronunciation, but my God, they should not change the meanings of the words. Take the two words “opposition” and “contradiction”. They don’t mean the same thing at all and yet they use them interchangeably. It reminds me of the professor whose wife walked into the kitchen and caught him kissing the maid, and said, “Why Henry, I’m surprised.” He said, “No, I’m surprised, you’re amazed.” There’s a difference. Don’t feel badly. You feel badly, you feel bad emotionally, but you feel badly this way. I’m not a purist but at least we should be able to understand each other. Language is based upon intellectual assent, we agree that these things mean this therefore to a Chinese Mongolian, the English language is a bunch of hen scratches and doesn’t mean a thing to them. But we agree that these sounds mean these things and these symbols mean these sounds, and these words mean these things. I don’t think any idiot should get up there and decide to change things because it pleases him.

Visitor: It’s not done out of vanity, it’s done out of obfuscation, is that what you call it?

Bab: I would say it’s for profit. To sell more dictionaries.

Visitor: Did you hear that the New Webster’s Dictionary came out listing the 40th President of the United States as Ronald Reagan? They put out several thousand of them already before it was brought to the attention of the editor who gave an apology saying he was not in favor of either candidate. It was just a mistake.

Bab: They’ve got inside information.
(Tape garbled)

Bab: I know about the LEAA. I know that the Rockefellers are not dead; all three of them are still hiding in Camp David. Law Enforcement Assistance Association. They were appointed by the Rockefellers. (LEAA is now FEMA) The way that they did that is that they created problems that the local law enforcement people couldn’t handle, thereby proving to the people that they had to have all these expert federal people come in order to be able to handle the situation. In the communities where they installed one of these LEAA agents, the federal LEAA then had complete jurisdiction.

Our Constitution practically prohibits a national police force, and that was the way around it. dministrative BS. You see, we’re the one who blew the whistle on the 300th M.P. division. They were setting up slave camps or concentration camps throughout the country. We got it directly from the Pentagon, and this guy said now don’t tell anybody where you got it. He works for the Pentagon. He sent it to us. We proved it. We turned it over to Congressman Taylor and he blew his top, started to investigate it, and sure enough, they were setting up these concentration camps through the country. They were being trained to take over the local police, state police, taking over the whole law enforcement throughout the country. One World government. Well sure they want me dead, but they insult me by saying $10,000. Now if they would say $10,000,000 I would say OK. I’ll collect it myself.

Visitor: You know, all those kids that came over yesterday, Bab, I think they were flabbergasted by what we were talking about. They just couldn’t believe it. Just walking in cold, and all of a
sudden you open up a whole world of treachery. If I’d just walked in, I’d say you were paranoid.

Bab: Someone said not too long ago that the first time they listened to me talk they thought I was totally out of my mind. I said, I am.

Visitor: Well, you covered the legal attack and the HUD attack, and the weather modification …

Bab: We also hit the ERA, too, that phony bill for Equal Rights Administration, Gay rights, and equal rights for women. They don’t have to have a special amendment to the Constitution for that. All they have to do is decide that women are people and they’ve got equal protection, equal rights. Do you realize that in order to get slavery in this country they had to decide that the Negro was not a person? He was an animal; therefore they decide the same thing about women. Women are not people and therefore they don’t have equal rights. All they have to do is decide women are people. They don’t need an amendment for them. They have protection under the Constitution.

Can you imagine trying to get an amendment admitting that women are people? Let women insist upon the fact that they are people. Don’t forget that under the law, when they declared that the black man was not a person, he was an animal, anyone caught having sex with a Negro at that time was guilty of sodomy. That was the religions and the government that did that. It was not the people. The people resented it even back in those days. We have a book that was published about this county back in the days of the slave trade, “Goodspeeds History of Barry County”. One farmer in the area of Seligman treated his slaves better than most people treated their employees. Apparently the man was a very honorable person in the first place. Most Americans could not afford to own a slave. A weak slave would cost $2,000 and that was more money than most Americans made in their entire lifetime. Britain owned most of the slaves.

Visitor: The Rothschild did that.

Bab: Yes. Britain owned all of the cotton plantations, all of the tobacco plantations. The war was not fought about slavery; it was fought about economics. Britain was trying to squeeze out the industries up in New England. They were buying up the crops before they were even harvested, the tobacco and cotton. New England mills were closed because they couldn’t get any cotton to weave. England wouldn’t let them have any. England was buying it up, was controlling it and were freezing out the businesses in New England, and they had vast unemployment up there; and the idea was that they were putting up their own mills in the South. Britain was doing it, putting New England mills out of business. The mistake that Lincoln made, I’m sure he recognized it before he died, was demanding that the slaves be freed right now. That was a mistake. They should have been given freedom, but they should have been kept as the responsibility of those who had used them to have them educated, trained and conditioned them to take their position and their place in our society. By freeing them all of the sudden, put them in a worse condition that they had been when they were in slavery. They were not conditioned for it. They should have given them twenty years.

Visitor: Do you know that Lincoln suggested with the Proclamation of Emancipation?

Bab: Yes, send them all back to Liberia. We bought that country and gave it to them, as their own country. He said your people were no more intended to live here, than you would be in Alaska. He said you should go back to your home country. England shot him to make sure he didn’t get to do that. He wanted to send them all back to Liberia. The American businessman bought Liberia and made it a country and were giving it to them as their own country as a gift from the American people. They shot him to make sure that that didn’t happen. England has never accepted defeat in the Revolutionary War. We’re going to have to beat the hell out of her again or convince her that we are independent. Let’s recognize the fact that the British people are not free. They have been controlled by corporations for a long time. The House of Lords is nothing more than corporate executives and they own the army, the navy, everything, the corporate executive which is the House of Lords. The House of Commons just represents the people before the House of Lords; but the House of Lords takes care of the nation in so far as the world is concerned, and the House of Commons just takes care of the internal affairs. Britain has been owned by corporations ever since Queen Elizabeth’s time. The Hudson Bay Corporation, African Company, the Indian Company, the Kimberley Company.

Visitor: Would you say Britain is a capitalist country?

Bab: I don’t recognize the term capitalism or communism or anything like that. I recognize it only as an oligarchy. Capitalism is a misnomer. Oligarchy: controlled by a few

Visitor: Something might start off as capitalism and then progress into oligarchy?

Bab: Well, capitalism doesn’t exist. If you were to say capitalism, then nobody in that country would work for a living, they would all invest their money, and everybody else would do it. Well, who is going to do the work? A person who sits back and invests money and makes a profit on it is a capitalist. In a capitalist country you wouldn’t have any laborers. I’m against capitalism, Nazism, communism. Recognize the fact that without Nazism, communism could not have existed. We have a Nazi in the White House right now. He’s not communist, he’s a Nazi, but both of them have the destination of world enslavement. Nazism and communism work hand in hand. One is just as bad as the other and we’re supposed to make the decision of which one we’re going to be. I don’t want either one of them. I want them to get off my back and stay off my back. Just ignore me completely. If they don’t bother me, I won’t bother them. I want my people to be free of them. I have 200,000 people around the world, they are my people, and I want them to be free of them. They ignore us, leave us alone; we won’t bother them if they want to live that way. The only way a person can survive and be free is to use their time as money, and have their money as time. A minute for a minute, an hour for an hour, a day for a day, a week for a week. If I do a week’s work for you, you owe me a week of your time in labor exchange.

There is no reason why the Rockefellers should figure their time to be worth $5,000 a second, and mine only $5 a second. My time is worth just as much as theirs. One minute for one minute. I will not work for them for less than they charge me for their work. The only fair exchange is time for time, and no one gets cheated. In a nation where time is the basis for exchange, there is no poverty, no insanity and no sickness. They don’t have to have sickness, poverty, or insanity. Time for time. Everyone starts out with equal amount of time, 24 hours a day. They are entitled to 24 hours a day. Even if you don’t do anything, you’re entitled to 24 hours a day. Anytime a man can’t earn enough in 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to support his entire family, he’s being cheated someone’s stealing his money, stealing his time. A man should be allowed to get enough money 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to support his entire family, to be with them nights and on weekends.

Visitor: Unless he’s greedy.

Bab: Greedy for what? You can only eat one meal at a time.

Visitor: You said once before that greed is produced from a fear of the future.

Bab: That’s right. Fear. I grew up in the gutters of New York City, as you know. I read my way out. I didn’t want to shoot my way out. Most of the friends I had died in the penitentiary, in Sing Sing. They got themselves killed in gang wars. I read my way out. When I got out of it I studied in Paris, Texas, the Pratt Institute and began to get my degrees. When I got a penthouse studio, I began to mingle with these so-called aristocratic people. You know, I couldn’t tell the difference between them and the ones I had left in the slums. The ones in the penthouses were terrified of being poor; and the ones in the slums were terrified of being rich. They’re both terrified of each other. Yet, they envy each other. That’s sick. Why be rich or poor, why not just enjoy yourself? I don’t want to be rich; I just want to live like a rich man. And how much could I have in one day in time? If I have more than I need for one day at a time, I’ll give it to somebody who doesn’t have it. I am entitled to 24 hours a day, that’s all I’m entitled to. I live those days as I come to them. What do I need more than 24 hours a day? I’m not a romantic idealist, and I’m not expecting anyone to do anything for me, but I’ll teach them how to do it for themselves. I had to do it myself; no one gave me a thing when I grew up. I had to fight for existence. With a name like Ellsworth, which is my first name in Welsh, it’s pronounced Ellsworth, with a name like Ellsworth Aloysius, I had to fight when I came out on the street. I was 21 years old before I could even spell it. I had to fight to stay alive. No, I didn’t, but back in those days we had a very definite community spirit, not like it is in New York now. Everybody was poor, everybody was having trouble. There were divisions, they lived in different communities; the Italian section, the Spanish section, the Irish section, but they co-mingled. They had their fights, but they weren’t vicious, they didn’t try to kill each other. They all had the same problems; they were human.

Visitor: They all have the same problems today. They just don’t know it.

Bab: Yes, now they’re blaming each other instead of blaming the real cause, themselves. Since that time, I’ve been around the world. You name it; I’ve been there. I’ve been to Africa, India, and Russia. I’ve met these people and they are all beautiful people. They’re good people. The Russian people are very wonderful; they’re very affectionate, very loveable, and very gentle.

Visitor: Do you think they are a deceptive people?

Bab: No. The Russian government came from New York City, not from Russia. Lenin was born in Kansas City and grew up there. Karl Marx grew up in the East Side of New York. Golda Meier came from Joplin. I’m supposed to be stupid? I know that. They were all trained here for their jobs. The Russian government, Tsar Nicholas II was not overthrown by Russian people, but by 40,000 British mercenaries and 25,000 German mercenaries. The United States had a hand in that because they had three divisions of American troops in Russia at the time, supposedly for observation. But they were using our troops as a cover up to smuggle weapons in to the mercenaries. Britain was the one that financed it. The House of Rothschild. The reason why the House of Rothschild was out to destroy the Tsar was because he stood in the way of the Illuminati. Amshel Rothschild stopped him cold and the Rothschilds went out to get him. But even so, they still didn’t kill them. They killed his cousin, who volunteered, put on his uniform and delivered the body to the Rothschilds so the Rothschilds would pay off. Now what happened? King George the Fifth, who was the first cousin to Tsar Nicholas II was the nearest living relative to the Russian family, supposedly, so he got their $300,000,000 in gold bullion deposited in the City Bank of New York and the Chase Manhattan bank, which belonged to the Tsar of Russia, and he turned it over to the Rothschilds to pay off the British war debt. And now they recognize the fact that Tsar Aleksei is not dead and they owe him three hundred million dollars in gold from 1916 plus interest. That’s why David Rockefeller resigned his position. He’s frightened. Tsar Aleksei is alive.

Visitor: He can prove his identity?

Bab: Oh, yes, even Queen Elizabeth has agreed to it. The CIA, a number of agents verified it, checking dental records, fingerprints, birthmarks, you name it. He came over here as the Tsar, for political refuge. And this idiot asked me last night, “Well, why would Tsar Aleksei want to talk with you?” I said, “I don’t know, ask him, he calls me on the telephone every so often.” When he first called me, he told me he was Aleksei Romanoff, pronounced it the way the Russians do (accent on the second syllable) and I was thinking that it was Spanish. He said, no, I’m Russian. Later on it occurred to me, it’s Romanoff. Well, they are Roman, you know, the Bourbon family. When he told me he was the Tsar of Russia, I said, “Well, tell me Aleksei, about Gregory Rasputin.” He stopped and said, “Well, Bab, Gregory was neither a devil, nor was he a saint, he was a very good man. I owe my life to him.” I said, “You’re the Tsar.” Gregory Rasputin was not mad. They killed him because they could not get to the Royal Family without getting rid of him first. He was the go between the people and the Tsar. But don’t forget that the Romanoff were the first ones that gave the Russians freedom. They owned their own land. They took them away from being serfs and made them peasants and gave them the right to own the land and own their own businesses and so forth. He demanded that they form a congress He’s the one who supported the United States, Aleksei’s grandfather. He gave us California. He ceded Alaska to us for 99 years for development, to help us. I knew when he told me about Gregory Rasputin that he was the Tsar, because he was the only one that would know about that. Every time he injured himself, he had hemophilia so bad, if he just bruised himself, he would begin to bleed and they couldn’t stop the bleeding. Now we can stop it with Vitamin K. Back in those days there was no way to stop it. A bleeder would bleed to death before they could stop the blood. Gregory Rasputin would hypnotize him and stop the blood every time, by hypnosis.

Visitor: What was Rasputin’s official title?

Bab: Well, he was a priest with the Orthodox Church, a monk. They referred to him as the mad monk. He was not mad; he was a very brilliant man. Boy, when you read about how they killed him. He was almost as tough as Jesse James. They had to kill him a dozen times to get him dead. They finally had to drown him under the ice. He had been taking gradually increasing doses of arsenic, because he thought someone was trying to poison him, and that’s the way they would do it. Sure enough, they fed him candy laced with arsenic and he ate a whole handful. They tried to strangle him and they couldn’t do that. They shot him and he survived the bullet wound. They stabbed him, shot him, and he fell down on the carpet. They tied him up, rolled him up in the carpet, tied the carpet up, took it out in the middle of the winter, cut a hole in the ice and threw him underneath the water and then when they discovered his body, he had managed to untie the carpet, untie himself and he drowned because he couldn’t poke a hole through the ice.

Visitor: Better than Houdini.

Bab: He was an Essene.
(Break in tape.)

Bab: The skeletal formation of the various races is based upon the segment of Earth from which they came. The races resemble the Earth. We have three different colored segments, Red, Yellow and Blue. The Nigero (pronounced with soft “g”) comes from the blue, the Indian comes from the Red, and the Oriental comes from the Yellow. Now, that is the negative. In the socalled white race, which is the grey race, there is a combination of all three positive Red, Yellow and Blue. We have red-haired people, blond-haired people, and black (or blue)-haired people. The only thing is that the grey race does not know that they are composed of three different races and that each one of them is positive to one of the negative races. We grow the body that we need and we grow the body that we need in that particular part of the world. Don’t forget, that when you take the blue like this (small spiral), the red like this (spiral surrounding the blue), and the yellow like this (spiral around red and blue), the yellow bounces off, it delineates. It limits. The red imbues life. The blue solidifies and gives the foundation for life. All three of these lights travel at different rates of speed. One going around the other, so that from here to here, they all travel at the same rate of speed this way, but they all travel at different rates of speed this way (spirally). They’re all involved in the sleeve that is as Dr. Einstein referred to as the space-time continuum. Now, when all three of these come and absorb at one point we have now the mison, which is the anti-matter that is the sleeve that contains the three basic energies. The ancients said, “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.” The mison is the anti-matter. The lifegiving forces are within the mison sleeve, and the sleeve takes away dead matter, and leaves living matter in its place. But we should not be exposed to it. At one point we get off balance and pretty soon it begins to take more than it gives. If we had the ionic layer where it belongs, the Van Allen belt, the waste products went up there, it would take away the waste products and would leave us life-giving energy. We would not die anymore and we would not get sick. They broke that shell and now it follows us around like a half-moon behind us on the Van Allen belt. They broke it when the moon left the Earth. It broke the skin, that shell around us, and now we are exposed to the deadly rays of the mison, anti-matter. That’s why we get old and die. It’s a matter of absorption, and reflection and refraction. Certain energy, the Blue, goes in and solidifies your bone structure. The red goes in and generates the energy that you need. The yellow hits you on the surface and keeps your skin dry Delineation. I wouldn’t sit and argue with these idiots up there at MIT. I went there and talked with them for about 4 or 5 hours, and they’re listening to everything I say and what do they get? hotosynthesis. I said, look I’m not talking about plant life, we know all about the conversion of sugar. The cells in the leaf hit by the light, it takes the carbon and makes it into sugar. But sugar is not necessarily sweet. Sugar is very bitter, as a matter of fact. I know all about the conversion of energy into matter by hotosynthesis, what I’m talking about is the mineral conversion. “Well, the thing is that we don’t have enough money to finance your research.” I said I don’t want it as my research; I want it as your research. I’ll work for you for nothing. I wouldn’t charge anything for my time.“We can’t do that, we only work with our own projects.” So, a very short time later they come out with this brilliant, new discovery, photosynthesis. Conversion of light into sugar for energy in the plant. That’s as far as they’ve gotten. They can’t go any further. You see, the mistake is separating genetics from life. All of life is based on genetics. Memory. So let them stay there, and play with their photosynthesis. I could give them a lot more than that. I was working with biological hydroponics. I can take nucleic acids and feed the entire world in a very short time. I can cause meat to grow without any brain or nervous system. It wouldn’t even feel any pain. With nucleic acids, and chemicals and minerals. Therefore, you would not have to kill to eat.Visitor: What would you do, establish some sort of pattern?

Bab: Well, you’d have to have it at body temperature at all times. It would have to be kept in the dark, under a saline solution, and, of course, you’d have to have electrical stimuli. I can grow meat with all the nutrients they could possibly want. All the minerals they could possibly want. Everything they would need in that meat. They could just go in and cut off a hunk, eat it raw or cook it. Eat it raw and it won’t bother you. You can make it taste like anything you want to, depending upon what chemicals, what minerals you add. I wouldn’t give it to them.

Visitor: Would it be fleshly or plantlike?

Bab: Whichever you want. You can make anything you want by this process. That’s how mushrooms grow. After all, mushrooms are nothing more than the spores of insects. That’s why certain mushrooms are poisonous, and certain mushrooms are not. Certain insects are poisonous, certain insects are not. The non-poisonous insects will produce the edible mushrooms, and the poisonous insects will produce poisonous mushrooms. Insect spores create mushrooms, which is the cross between vegetable and animal. I showed you that seventeen-year locust with the mushroom coming out of its body? I could feed the entire world. There’s enough plankton . . .

Visitor: I thought mushrooms were fungus?

Bab: What causes fungus? Spores, Insect spores. One step higher than amoeba. I developed that Molecular Displacer. I was using it for carving jade in Tucson. I could have stepped up the power in that and cut a hole right through the side of a mountain. I would not have to have any dust because I would not be removing anything from that rock. I would be displacing the molecules. I could go right into the side of the mountain. I could recarve the mountain, make it any shape I wanted, with enough power. Infrasonic. Now, they say this is anti-matter, and the scientists are talking about if they could develop something to contain anti-matter. Infrasonic, anti-matter. The phasar that blasted that ship in the Tunguska in 1908 was using it. I could take them four thousand years into the future, if they had any brains. You see the parasites that are now trying to control the world depend upon us to give them the knowledge to control us with. That’s true of parasites. Because they feel that they are superior to us. If they’re superior to us, why can’t they create the power to control us? They can’t. They depend upon us to produce the energy, the science of psychology, write the books for them, to tell them how to do it. And after we tell them how to do it, they’re going to come around and teach us how to do what we just told them how to do. They’re parasites. And they fancy themselves
superior to us!

(Break in tape.)

Bab: Well, you can convert sound into heat, heat into light, light into heat.

Visitor: You said beam a speaker against some kind of a grill and you could take a transistor radio and heat a house.

Bab: Sure.

Visitor: What was the metal used?

Bab: Oracalcum. I’m not going to tell them how to fuse it. Tellurium, selenium and zirconium. It would have half-life radioactivity, and would absorb the energy and then release it slowly. You could have daylight 24 hours a day. Atlantis had 12 towers coated with oracalcum. They absorbed the energy of the sun and then released it at night so that it was daylight. Each city was controlled by one tower. The main city was called Syn.

Visitor: That was how they were attacked. That was their power source.

Bab: They made the same mistake they’re making today. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. And they began to play with test tube procreation, outside of the body to where they could take an ovum, fertilize it with the spermatozoa and then produce children. Then they got beyond that. They began to fertilize human ovum with animal spermatozoa to produce centaurs, half goat and half men, half pig and half men, and they were actually using them for beasts of burden and for food, too. They were creating abominations just like they’re going to do now if we don’t stop them. They found that they could fertilize the ovum outside of the human body, with the spermatozoa. They’re going to start fertilizing it with animal spermatozoa to produce abominations if we don’t stop them and stop them fast. As a matter of act, 20 years ago in Life magazine, they had a big write-up about it. They could do it already at that time.

Visitor: The Russians could.

Bab: No. The Russians won’t do it. Russia tried it. They tried using the ape. They thought they were going to produce a race of very strong, but very stupid creatures that would be almost human and would be completely obedient, but they made a mistake. The human being is more obedient than the ape. The ape cannot be trained or domesticated. They are too independent. Humanity can be enslaved, the ape cannot. So, they produced the abominable snowman. They call it that; it’s not abominable at all. It’s a very gentle creature, but it’s half ape and half human. In 1923 they did that. But Russia learned a lesson and backed off from that entirely. It’s being done in England and the United States now, not in Russia. Russia will not touch it. As a matter of face, right now there is a revival of Christianity in Russia. That’s right, the government fights them tooth and nail. Two people who went there told me that. A Nigero lady who visited there said that they came up to her and asked how did you get out of prison, because she’s black. She said what do you mean? The Russian people have been told that the Nigero are all captives, and kept herded around in America. They wanted to know how she got out, and here she is a college professor.

Visitor: They’ve been lied to.

Bab: Oh, yes, they’ve got better news control than we do. When Glen made his first trip around the Earth in that space ship, they had a radio reporter who interviewed a number of students at the University of Moscow. Every one of them began, “Thank God he made it,” when the reporter asked them what they thought about the American astronaut making the first flight. I said, those are atheists? One man said, “I’ve got to hurry back and tell my mother. She’s been praying all night that he would not be harmed. We don’t have any television or radio, so I have to get home and tell her that he made it and she will be very happy.”

Visitor: Some psychic, I can’t remember whom, said that shortly past the year 2,000 Russia would be the leading Christian nation. Bab: Exactly. Khrushchev grew up in a monastery. He knew the Bible backward and forward. He said the United States would destroy itself. Russia didn’t have to attack it. Visitor: Lack of spiritual strength and character?

Bab: Right. The Indians are sitting back watching us, also. Nino Cochise, chief of the Apache nation, not the tribe, the nation, the Apache nation exists from Alaska clear down to Mexico city, it’s not just a tribe. They’re being very quiet. Nino told me the Apache never took a scalp; it’s against their religion. The Sioux took scalps because the British bought them from them, but the Apache cannot touch anybody he has harmed for fear that he will pick up the spirit of that person, and be haunted by them. If you touch a body that you have harmed, and you are an Apache, you go into purification for 90 days, with nothing but parched corn and water. You purify yourself in prayer, if you touch anybody
you have harmed. That is the Apache custom. Their religion.

They are very honorable people. Nino said, “Bab, the white man did not conquer the Indians, the wheel conquered us. We hate it The wheel to us is an evil god and gold is the metal of madness. We will have nothing to do with either one. We had a great advanced civilization at one time.” I see the evidence of that civilization, the foundations in Arizona, buildings bigger than the ones in New York City and bigger. He said that civilization was destroyed by the wheel and the love of gold. That’s why the Apache will not touch gold or play around with the wheel. They hate the wheel. It’s an evil god. He said, “We will not use the wheel.”

Visitor: The wheel representing technology?

Bab: Any wheel. They believe that once the wheel starts rolling, if it is not watched constantly, it will begin to roll on its own. It will destroy everything in its path. He said, “We don’t have to attack the white man, we just sit back and watch him destroy himself with the very thing that destroyed us. The wheel and the love of gold. The Apache never attacked a lone rider or a man on foot. They welcomed him. They attacked the wagon trains, tipped them over and burned the wheels and burned the driver because they figured that he was the servant to the evil god, the wheel.” Nino is the grandson of Cochise


More from Delamer Duverus

The Next Voice You Hear by Delamer Duverus, Parts 1-12 (Nov. 21, 1977)


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