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Is America the Eighth Beast? An examination of Modern Tribulation Theology & America in Prophecy

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We hear it all the time, “Isn’t it amazing that the scriptures are silent about America?” I once thought the same thing myself, but after prayerful re-examinations of America’s history and scripture I don’t believe it is so anymore. Therefore, I submit the following for those open enough to examine for themselves whether or not America is mentioned in scriptures. Though I admit, it is hard to convince most people nowadays. As Mark Twain once said, “It is easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled,” likewise it has been proven over and over again, that the greatest hindrance to people accepting the truth is a prejudice or presupposition to it before they fully hear a matter.

He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and a shame to him.” (Proverbs 18:13)

Please do not hastily jump to the wrong conclusion that I am anti-America. I simply believe that a holy and righteous God must deal with the sins of America the same way He would with any nation.

The information in this book is in truth only a fraction of the information available on this subject. For those considering this concept for the first time, this can be overwhelming. Therefore I recommend proceeding only with prayer and an open heart and mind.

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    • LifeIs

      The eighth beast is modern “Israel.” Jerusalem – like several ancient cities, was said to have been “built on seven hills.”

      Israel is the first beast in Revelation 13, the Money Power, the mystery Babylon.

        • LifeIs

          William Males you are almost there, and you are ignoring something.

          You are ignoring the part about the 8th empire existing BEFORE John’s time, and not DURING,
          but existing again in the future, and inspiring WONDER.

          “And here is the mind which hath wisdom. ” THIS tells you the simple, obvious answer is not the correct one. Pertaining to THIS:

          “The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.” Rome is the simple, obvious answer. Because it is the most celebrated of the cities built on 7 hills.

          Jerusalem was built on 7 hills, too.

          “And the beast that was, and is not,” tells you PLAINLY the nation-beast existed BEFORE John’s time,
          and did not at the time exist.

          In Acts chapter 7, Stephen tells you that Solomon was wrong to build his Temple. Samuel chapter 1
          tells you that ancient Israel was wrong to demand a king.

          The kingdom of Israel and its Temple are the beast that WAS. And it was no longer in business
          when John wrote Revelation.

          Israel is “of the seven” previous empires, by history and culture.

          The US government didn’t spring from ancient Egypt, nor borrow some of its stories, nor its ark on poles idea.

          The US government never spent time in Babylon. Israel’s did.

          The US government wasn’t installed in power by Cyrus the king of PERSIA.

          Israel’s was.

          The US was never ruled by Assyria or Greece. Israel was.

          Israel compiled its BABYLONIAN TALMUD around 600 AD.

          So YES ISRAEL is “of the seven” previous empires. And the US is not.

          And the US didn’t exist BEFORE John’s time, and Israel did.

        • LifeIs

          And by the way, the US has never had dominion over the entire world.

          Jewish bankers do.

          “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

          The US didn’t kill the prophets. Israel did.

          The US didn’t mock the resurrection by surviving a mortal wound by the sword. Israel did.

    • William Males

      Lifels, I appreciate your replies. I wish to assure you that after more than three decades of prayerful study and examination scripture history with more re-examination and cross-examination, I am not ignoring anything. I simply have dismissed those erroneous theories that do not agree with the whole of scripture or history. It is as I stated in the beginning of my first chapter-

      “Perhaps you have heard one of the versions about Thomas Edison’s attitude while working on the creation of a practical light bulb or a new battery. Success wasn’t immediate for him, not in the slightest, as he and his team of researchers conducted what seemed to be an endless series of unsuccessful experiments. At one point a co-worker, visitor, or a reporter expressed frustration or sympathy to Edison regarding the failed experiments. Edison countered saying, “I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that all those ways will not work.” Such is part of proving all things, some things will be proven to work, and other’s proven not to.

      The same holds true with Christian theology, for what is true must agree with the whole of scripture or it cannot be the truth. Thus, it is not that which was convincingly preached from certain texts of scripture that others have embraced as truth that deserves the allegiance of the your faith, rather that alone which cannot be shaken by the whole of God’s word. For we must preach proven-truth, otherwise just like those failed light bulbs and batteries, our message will neither truly illuminate nor have sufficient power.”

      I Thessalonians 5:21 – Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

      All that said, for you to state that the “8th empire existing BEFORE John’s time” doesn’t make any sense, as the angel clearly states the eight comes at the end of time. The ones before John that had fallen begins with Egypt, the place where Israel was birth as a nation when God brought them out of captivity. The other four would be Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that “was” at the time of John was Rome which destroyed Israel as a national entity and dispersed the descendants of Abraham into all the nations. When Israel was re-birth, it was on land that was then part of the British Empire, making England the seventh that continues “a short space,” as I wrote in chapter 18 -

      “Now what worked to re-establish Israel as a nation (apart from God’s sovereignty) was a near global sympathy for the Jews after their persecution in World War II, whereupon at that time, the land was still recognized as part of the British Empire.

      History tells us that while Britain was willing to allot a portion of land for Jewish settlers, they did not want to relinquish control or possession of the land. After the Jews’ increasing frustration with England and Arabs, on December 1, 1947, the Arab Higher Committee proclaimed a three-day strike as Arab bands began attacking Jewish settlements. The Jews, initially being placed on the defensive as war broke out against them, quickly moved to the offensive and prevailed, gaining control and occupancy of more land. At which point England conceded and gave the land to the Jews (under international pressure) so they could once again be a people, a nation.

      Now this all may seem good and well on England’s part, except when a gift is given God requires that it must be given cheerfully and of one’s free will to be acceptable and thus blessed by Him. Otherwise, it is not a true gift of charity. Therefore, England, who did not cheerfully choose to bless the descendants of Abraham with a free will offering, ultimately forfeited the blessing of God. This can be seen in that though Britain and its allies were ultimately victorious in the war, the Empire rapidly began to decline…

      …it is historical fact that George VI, King of the United Kingdom and the Dominions of the British Commonwealth, lived only four short years after the rebirth of Israel, only to be succeeded by his elder daughter, Elizabeth. England therefore, governing the land of Israel’s rebirth, is the seventh head of which prophecy predicted, “when he cometh, he must continue a short space,” (Rev. 17:10).”

      Furthermore, to insist this prophecy points to Israel or Rome because they are situated on seven hills is to ignore that angel is reference seven different kings, one per mountain or empire. These are not geographical hills and to so insist is to build your interpretation on a false foundation. It appears you are neglecting what “mountains” prophetically represent in scripture.

      As I stated in chapter 4, “The beast’s seven heads are designed to represent a historic succession of “mountains” which are prophetic of these kingdoms, four of which Daniel’s vision additionally confirms are “four great beasts [that] come up from the sea.”

      Jeremiah 51:24 – And I will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the LORD. 25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

      Zechariah 4:7 – Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

      Daniel 2:35 – Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

      Daniel 2:45 – Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

      Amos 4:1 – Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink.

      Amos 6:1 – Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came!

      On this scriptural foundation I am persuaded your supposition is not only weak, but scripturally wrong when you assert that “Rome is the simple, obvious answer. Because it is the most celebrated of the cities built on 7 hills.”

      Regarding your statement, “‘And the beast that was, and is not,” tells you PLAINLY the nation-beast existed BEFORE John’s time, and did not at the time exist.” Your supposition here is wrong as well, because the angel is speaking of the succession of empires which are represented by the image of the seven-headed beast. The fact that both the great red dragon of Rev. 12 and the beast in Rev. 13 both have seven heads only clarifies that it is “the dragon which gave power unto the beast,” for the battle has never been “against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” True, the dragon which manipulated all these empires”existed BEFORE John’s time,” but empire scripturally called The Eighth Beast did not.

      I simply cannot understand on what foundation you claim “Solomon was wrong to build his Temple.” Acts chapter seven states no such thing. It is simply an acknowledgment that the temple could not contain God in His fullness, not that he wouldn’t inhabit it. For God bore witness that He approved the building of temple; something He would not have done if it was merely a work of the flesh that ought not to have been done.

      II Chronicles 5:13 – It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For He is good; for His mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; 14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

      II Chronicles 7:1 – Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house. 2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house. 3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the LORD, saying, For He is good; for His mercy endureth for ever.

      Furthermore, Israel is not “of the seven” previous empires, by history and culture.” The are the descendants of Abraham, a chosen people called by God to be used to show the world that His kingdom alone is the power and glory that will abide forever and ever. Though they have sinned and at times embraced the idolatry and sins of the pagan nations around them, they are still “beloved for the father’s sake.” Meaning God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that He would preserve them and a remnant would be saved.

      All the other comments about the US “didn’t spring from ancient Egypt… never spent time in Babylon… wasn’t installed in power by Cyrus… never ruled by Assyria or Greece… didn’t exist BEFORE John’s time” are unnecessary. I never stated any of those things and the biblical correlation of those nations involvement with Israel support my position as presented in the book. Maybe you should just read before you try and correct me on my positions.


      • LifeIs

        William Males

        You said the United States was the 8th beast. And I said the United States doesn’t qualify, as the US is not “of the seven” kingdoms in question. Israel is. Out of Egypt. Out of Babylon. Installed by Persia. Under Assyria. Under Greece. Installed in Palestine AGAIN by England.

        The Zionist conquest of Palestine did NOT begin after WW2. The First Zionist Congress – Basel, 1897- founded the Jewish state.

        Theodor Herzl: ” In Basel I founded the Jewish State.”

        During WORLD WAR ONE Zionists in England insisted that England conquer Palestine for them. And England did.
        And England – in the Balfour Declaration – made a Jewish homeland in Palestine an objective of English foreign policy.

        England facilitated Jewish settlement and Jewish armament.

        The Bible text itself says the seven heads are BOTH seven kings and seven hills.

        Of the seven kings, five had fallen, one existed at the time, and one was yet to come. Then there is the eighth, which is of all seven, past, present, and future.

        “they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”

        WHY THE WONDER. Because every magic trick has three parts. The pledge, where the magician shows you something ordinary.

        That is the nation of ancient Israel.

        Then there is the turn, where the magician makes something extraordinary happen. The nation disappears.

        Then there is the prestige, where the magician brings back what had vanished.

        “… his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast….

        …And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

        Instead of “who is like God,” we have “who is like Israel?”

        You do NOT worship a nation for being connected to Babylon or Persia or England.

        You do not WONDER at that.

        You wonder at the nation once existing, existing no more, and then COMING BACK TO LIFE.

        STEPHEN said Israel was wrong to build the Temple. “Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed… But Solomon built him an house…Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet…ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

        Why do you think Stephen was being stoned to death? Why do you think he MENTIONED the Temple and the building of it. He was saying it was WRONG. A MISTAKE.

        You are a worshipper of the Beast and all worshippers of the Beast are cast into a lake of fire. Just saying.

        • William Males

          Mike stated: “You are a worshipper of the Beast and all worshippers of the Beast are cast into a lake of fire. Just saying.”

          Normally, I prefer to respond to people’s comments in the order they were made. However, when I reached your closing comment I felt it was prudent to address it first, as it is revealing of your heart which also invariably affects your theology. For who can know the truth of a matter if they do not love God and His truths? As Richard Baxter said in his book The Reformed Pastor, “Nothing can be rightly known if God be not known: nor is any study well managed, nor to any great purpose, if God in not studied.”

          If a man loves God and seeks the Lord as directed by scripture, humbling himself with prayers and fastings often and diligently studying to himself approved, then he will also be rightly dividing it. But “rightly dividing” the word of God is not referencing the gaining of knowledge; rather the application thereof. For without faith it is both impossible to please God and to know Him, for faith is the gift of grace given to men that they might come to Him and be rewarded for their hunger and thirst to know Him.

          Hebrews 11:6 – But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

          Doubtless, some would retort and say, “I know God,” yet if they fail to exhibit the love of God to others they are witnessed by the scriptures to be both deceived and deceivers.

          1 John 2:4 He that saith, “I know Him,” and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. 6 He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked… 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

          I understand that people are perishing daily, dying without revelation of the love of God and righteous precepts whereby He will judge the world. I also understand that there are many professing to love and know Him who are actually failing to love Him and refuse to be governed by those same righteous precepts whereby He has both made known His will and will judge the religious hypocrites and say to them, “I know you not whence ye are; depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity.” For what greater iniquity is there Mike than failing to love God and your neighbor as yourself, be they enlighten to the things of God or not?

          2 Timothy 2:19 – Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, “The Lord knoweth them that are His.” And, “Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

          When we are instructed to love our neighbor, God is not expecting us to have warm fuzzy feelings of affection towards all men, for who can profess such affection for their enemies of which they are commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ to love? Rather love must be a conscious commitment to allow the righteous precepts of God to govern your words and actions towards your neighbor, brothers, and enemies as you earnestly seek God’s wisdom for the meeting of their needs. For a godly love is a commitment to others physical, emotional, and spiritual needs while apathy has total disregard thereof. No man can do this in their flesh, for it can only be done by the faith of the Son of God whose Spirit abides within those He has quickened.

          Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

          Thus Mike, when I stated that I understand that people are perishing daily, dying without revelation of the love of God and therefore are destined for eternal separation from their Creator, life and have become partakers of the torment designed for the angels that sinned against God, I stated it as an acknowledgment of the righteous judgments of God.

          Yet while I acknowledge and accept this truth for those who have died in their sins, I refuse to accept it concerning those with whom God might give me opportunity to reason with them the things that pertain to Jesus Christ and His exceeding great and precious promises whereby we can be partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world and the condemnation to come.

          For I have learned that the “knowing a tree by its fruit” among those who profess to know the truth and God the source of all truth, that often the most obvious is whether they are compelling people to acknowledge the truth with patient forbearance, or simply condemning them for not accepting whatever ever theology is being spew out at them.

          God gives knowledge and understanding, line upon lie, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. It is a labor of love to show both the error of one’s way and the truth that leads to life that often requires the true servant of God to travail as it were in birth for the salvation of the lost, have you ever so labored Mike?

          Galatians 4:19 – My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, 20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.

          Therefore Mike, when you concluded your obvious anti-Semitic rant against the Zionists as the beast and evil of the world with “You are a worshipper of the Beast and all worshippers of the Beast are cast into a lake of fire,” what you are really saying to me is that I am worshipping a false god and going to hell. But if that isn’t enough, to so arrogantly judge what I believe as false with the accusation of me worshipping the beast followed up with dismissingly condemning me to hell, you cap it all off with “Just saying.”

          Just saying what Mike? That you don’t care? If you don’t care about me, do you care about anyone? Are you “just saying” that if people can’t accept what you are saying is the Gospel truth then they all deserve to go to hell?

          Which is it Mike? Do you want people to believe you or to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? For if you want to be a servant who compels others to come to God while the rapidly closing window of opportunity is still open, then I would encourage you to align your heart with the heart of Christ who came to seek the lost and not to condemn a world that already abides in condemnation.

          John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

          Psalm 126:6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.



        • LifeIs

          William Males, Mike didn’t say those things.

          You may call me Tim, or you may call me LifeIs.

          It wasn’t my idea to say the “Jewish people” are God, or to compare them to Jesus.
          They did that.

 scroll down to:

          “A gentile who strikes a Jew deserves death. Striking a Jew is in God’s eyes an assault on the Divine Presence.” BT Sanhedrin 58b

          You are determined to ignore the conflict between Christianity and Judaism, which is what got Jesus and Stephen and others killed.

          And that conflict started before Jesus came.

          Enoch wrote about the “son of man” who existed before the stars were created.

          Enoch wrote about fiery torment for the fallen, in the afterlife.

          Enoch wrote about the end of the world and the judgment.

          And Judaism REJECTED that message as non-scriptural.

          Hebrews chapter 7 tells you that Jesus will be a priest-king like Melchizedek.

          ” For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

          15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

          16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

          17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”

          Jesus quoted in John chapter 8:

          “56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

          57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

          58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

          Judaism as such originated in the 2nd century B.C.

          The Babylonian Talmud was compiled around 600 A.D.

          And here is a reason to believe Enoch is older than any part of the Jewish Bible.


          Atlantis is a myth, but the text in Enoch about the length of days is telling.

          William Males, it was not my idea to condemn evildoers.

          And it was not my idea to condemn those who worship earthly power, whether it is money power, or the power to get away with murder.

          Ignoring the victims of Judaism and Zionism does bring a personal condemnation from me. The name “Israel” attached to the country in Palestine is blasphemy. It is a worldly nation, established by the sword. It will die by the sword.

          It’s TELLING that you think such condemnation is a sin.

          It is reality.

          God allowed ancient Israel to have a king. And to build a Temple. And you know that is not the original set-up, of ancient Israel.

          And whose idea was the portable tabernacle?

          Whose idea was it, that there would be a time ” before any king reigned over the children of Israel”

          Was all that a mistake?

          Was it a mistake to give ancient Israel 613 laws, instead of the Babylonian Talmud?


    • MikeSavage

      It actually refers to the eighth great world power, not eighth beast. That eighth world power was the League of Nations, that later became the United Nations. It is the U.N. that will destroy organized religion. When they’ve accomplished that, they will go after God’s people, and then the final battle begins in an instant.

      • William Males

        Hello Mike,

        I use the term “the eighth beast” because that is the term the angel used for an end time empire that goes into perdition.

        Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

        I disagree with the concept that refers to the U.N. because of the scriptural reference to the ten kings and kingdoms which temporarily agree to a merge of powers with the beast.

        Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

        However, their alliance is one of deception as they will later turn on the beast and the woman which rides it and destroy them both after it allows its authority to be usurped by the Mother of Harlots.

        Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

        Plus, I fail to see how it can be the United Nation since the U.N. has never made all the merchants of the world rich.

        Re 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

        Re 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

        However, I do believe the destruction of New York City is prophesied because of the following verse.

        Re 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

        In the older manuscripts, i.e. the Codex Sinaiticus for one, dated to the fourth century, where it is translated “cities of nations” the Greek word that was translated “cities” is singular, not plural. The translators appear to have had a difficulty with a singular city being joined to the plural of nations, plus newer manuscripts changed the Greek word to its plural counterpart. But in older manuscript the same Greek word is used for the “great city” and “cities of nations,” but has been changed in the newer ones.

        New York City is in fact the City of Nations where all the members of the U.N. have, as it were, sovereign soil. However, I do believe the seat of the beast, i.e. the District of Columbia will be destroyed slightly before NYC.

        Re 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


        • MikeSavage

          Perdition means destruction. It isn’t a place.

    • William Males

      MikeSavage: Perdition means destruction. It isn’t a place.


      Actually, it is a place. There’s a smokehouse Berkeley, CA called Perdition.

      However, I understand it means destruction; that’s the point. America is going into destruction. If the verbiage is awkward, please remember I am only repeating the angel when I say “goes into perdition.”

      Here’s a small excerpt from Chapter 18 of my book -

      So, again I repeat, “How did these things come to past?” True to the Apostle John’s vision, “another beast” came “up out of the earth; and he had two horns of a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. And he exercises all the power of the first beast.” History proves that though this second beast had the appearance is like a lamb and claimed to be for peace, promising the American people, “I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars,” he was really promoting the agenda of the dragon. So much so that “…he does great wonders, so that he makes fire, i.e. The Bomb, come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,” (verses 11-13).

      I admit that initially for years I only casually researched this, but was stunned when I ran across The Frank Report of June 11, 1945. It is a “Memorandum on Political and Social Problems of the Bomb by scientists at the Metallurgical Laboratory of the University of Chicago, Manhattan Project.” This report was written for delivery to President Truman, who inherited the “Project” after President Roosevelt died.

      However, President Truman never received this letter before giving the order to drop the bomb on Hiroshima. That is because Secretary of War Mr. Stimson had intercepted it. He is documented as stating in regards to bombing decisions on Japan, “This is one time I’m going to be the final deciding authority. Nobody’s going to tell me what to do on this.”

      “The President never received the letter and all the scientists’ initiatives were frustrated because of the opposition of Byrnes, Groves, Oppenheimer, and other policy makers and scientists in control of the nuclear program.” (See “A PETITION TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,” 3rd paragraph, @ ).

      The following is “Dwight Eisenhower’s expressed view on using the Atomic Bomb”

      “In 1945 . . . , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act . . . During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and second because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of ‘face.’ The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude, almost angrily refuting the reasons I gave for my quick conclusions.”

      Here is perhaps the most startling excerpt from “The Franck Report” that was signed by the top scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project. It states “All of us, familiar with the present state of nucleonics, live with the vision before our eyes of sudden destruction visited on our own country, of a Pearl Harbor disaster repeated in thousand-fold magnification in every one of our major cities.”

      (See the Franck Report @ )

      A thorough reading of this report will show just how President Truman and other government leaders rejected the counsel of the wise, just like Rehoboam rejected the wisdom of his father’s counsellors when he was asked by Jeroboam to lower the taxes. After the scientists realized their letter had not been delivered they wrote a second petition to President Truman, from which the following excerpt was taken.

      “The war has to be brought speedily to a successful conclusion and attacks by atomic bombs may very well be an effective method of warfare. We feel, however, that such attacks on Japan could not be justified, at least not unless the terms which will be imposed after the war on Japan were made public in detail and Japan were given an opportunity to surrender.”

      “If such public announcement gave assurance to the Japanese that they could look forward to a life devoted to peaceful pursuits in their homeland and if Japan still refused to surrender, our nation might then, in certain circumstances, find itself forced to resort to the use of atomic bombs. Such a step, however, ought not to be made at any time without seriously considering the moral responsibilities which are involved.”

      “The development of atomic power will provide the nations with new means of destruction. The atomic bombs at our disposal represent only the first step in this direction, and there is almost no limit to the destructive power which will become available in the course of their future development. Thus a nation which sets the precedent of using these newly liberated forces of nature for purposes of destruction may have to bear the responsibility of opening the door to an era of devastation on an unimaginable scale.” (…n/45-07-17.html)

      To read these solemn warnings that were given to President Truman and to think he rejected their counsel is horrifying. Even General MacArthur, who was leading the war against Japan, petitioned strongly against the use of the bomb. He didn’t even know there was such a bomb until 48 hours before the first one was dropped. Upon being made aware he bitterly objected to its usage, stating the war was over; it was just a matter of negotiating the surrender, so as to allow the Japanese people to save face because they were a proud (honorable) people.

      Still, or perhaps, regardless, President Truman was the one who ordered the “fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.” God told us, “If any man has an ear, let him hear. He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity: [or weapon of war,] must be killed with the sword, [or same weapon of war].”

      Revelation 18:8 – Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.”


      • MikeSavage

        W. Males;
        Cute name for a smokehouse, but perdition isn’t a place scripturally speaking. It is the U.N. that is the 8th world empire. It is the U.N. that will destroy organized religion (false religion).

        • William Males

          Mike, I never stated perdition was a place, literally or spiritually. Why this is an issue with you and continues to brought up is beyond me.

          Concerning the United Nations, perhaps you would do well to look into the U.N.’s relationship with Lucis Trust which handles the printing and publication needs of the U.N. They are the one who provided the “Meditation Room” in the bldg.

          Lucis Trust was originally called Lucifer Trust, which they try to deny and have attempted to distant themselves from it years ago by legally restructuring under their new name.

          If, as you say, they were to “destroy organized religion,” it wouldn’t be to eliminate “false religion”; for they aggressively promote New Age dogma and the Esoteric Philosophy of Alice A. Bailey. It seems there is hardly a spiritual deception they won’t accept and absolutely no truth of God they will acknowledge.

          But on an ending note, I will simply state that I strongly disagree with your assertion that “the U.N. that is the 8th world empire.” However, you really haven’t presented a foundation for your position either. If you took the time to thoroughly present your position in a clear expose, perhaps it might have some points worthy of further consideration by others.

          Nevertheless, my book provides the basis for my position and is there if you or others really care to read it or to understand my position.


    • William Males

      My apologies to Mike Savage for confusing your comment with Lifels.

      Thank you Tim for the correction.

      I will review your comment and if reply if I believe it to be of any profit since you continue to insist on telling me what I am refusing to acknowledge instead of engaging me in respectful discourse. In the meantime, I am confident you can appropriately insert your name into my comment where Mike was mentioned.

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