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Does the virgin birth of Jesus mean that Mary is co-redeemer (co-Redemptrix) with Jesus in our salvation?

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Some Catholics would embrace this theological viewpoint while few Protestants would concur with that statement.  Since most Catholics AND Protestants agree that Jesus would have a sin nature if Joseph were the father of Jesus, then Mary is most certainly primarily responsible for keeping Jesus sinless for those 1st nine months of life.

When the Creator of the universe needs the human woman Mary to be responsible for protecting Jesus from being touched by sin in his spirit, soul and body; then you know that pagan worship and Greek mythology have been woven into the tapestry of the Christian mindset and even other religions extol the virtues of a virgin birth that resembles those counterfeit messiah’s who lived and died before Jesus was born.

It is odd that the angels of God are not able to protect Jesus when he is a newborn infant, child, teenager or young adult.  God doesn’t need human intervention, especially when the actions of humans like Joseph and Mary are counter-intuitive to common sense, logic and would be abnormal if ANY OTHER husband and wife experienced what Joseph and Mary are said to have endured in their marriage relationship.

Joseph not meeting the sexual needs of his wife, and Mary not meeting his sexual needs most definitely reveals they have a very “Unhealthy” dysfunctional relationship that no other human “Married” couples would tolerate, much less promote as “Normal and necessary”, under any circumstances.  Can you imagine Joseph and Mary on their wedding night and Joseph starts a little foreplay and Mary is horrified and fearful and stops Joseph from touching her breast or between her legs and she shouts at him to STOP, I belong to GAWD and only GAWD can get me pregnant or give me an orgasm.  Mary and Joseph are very HOT and HORNY young people, which would be normal L.O.L.

Indecently, Joseph probably dies around the time Jesus is 30 years of age.  In the Jewish culture, a Rabbi HAS TO BE at least 30 and married in order to be respected as a Servant of God in the ministry.  Also, probably in all cultures a father is always respect and held in higher esteem than a son.  Therefore, the creator of the universe (Emmanuel-God with us) can’t be subservient to a mere mortal human Joseph.  As the oldest son, Jesus has to take over as head-of-household, since God trumps the human body, spirit and authority of Joseph.

Since Mary is responsible for keeping Jesus from being touched by a sin nature because of her state of virginity, then the God that the Christians worship is guilty of allowing sin to enter the world in the first place.  If God had of been smart enough and all powerful then He could have know that He should impregnate the 100’s of billions of females throughout human history and then sin would not have entered into the lives of humans.  Every human teenager or adult male would simply be stepfather to any children born on this earth. 

If all humans born on the earth had “No” human father but Adam and Eve, then the billions of us born would still have a “Sinful nature”.  Why?  For “Only” a non-created being has the desire, strength and opportunity to “Stay” perfect.  Only one third of all the angels sinned against God but more than likely God intervened and stopped any further sinfulness of the angels.  This teaches the angels and us humans that in the next life, God would STOP any possible contamination from us sinning in spirit, mind, will, emotions or body.  And it won’t matter if you were Jewish, Christian, Muslim or atheist etc.

We wouldn’t want Joseph BANGING Mary while Jesus is very close next-door would we?  L.O.L.  My mom and dad probably has sex 100’s of times before my mother gave birth to me, and so did Joseph and Mary.  Couples do it in the bedroom, living room floor, couch, shower, car in the garage, maybe at work or anywhere else they desired and it didn’t harm me, didn’t harm me, didn’t harm me L.O.L. 

Mary could have been a prostitute and drank 2 quarts of whisky a day, smoked 4 packs of cigarettes a day, sprinkled arsenic on her food or in her drink and those actions couldn’t harm Jesus an any way (read Mark 16:18) because the Spirit of God and His angles will take charge of protecting Jesus, especially since God and His angels have no limitations (that sinful Mary has).  For nothing harmful in Mary can be transmitted to Jesus, for all sins and harmful substances will be “Neutralized” and not affect the life, health and spirit of God in Jesus.

Humans use piety in order to feel superior to others; bur a virgin is NOT more righteous than a non-virgin (just different in what there sin and good deeds are).  For there is none righteous, not even Mary, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. 

Mary and Joseph can’t tell anyone that Joseph isn’t the father of her child, she could be stoned for adultery or at least chastised by the women in the community for not meeting the sexual needs of her husband Joseph.  And all of the men in the community would laugh hysterically when they would hear that Joseph has been married for 9 months and isn’t getting any pu**y L.O.L.  The virginity of Mary is only good for expressing piety (self righteousness) before other humans and doesn’t make her holy or perfect before God and His angels. 

The God I believe in can neutralize any harmful substance or situation that would hinder the Will of God concerning Jesus.  God chose the sexual union of Joseph and Mary to bring Jesus into the world, because they and their families had the same “Kind of faith” that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and King David had; therefore any sexual indiscretions of King David, Joseph or Mary would not hinder or thwart the safety or future mission of Jesus.  Remember the 3 Jewish youths Hanania, Mishael, and Azaria in the fiery furnace?  God didn’t need to give them fireproof clothing garments to ware.

Mary isn’t protecting Jesus; she is showcasing her dysfunctional marriage and revealing that her Jewish ancestry roots have been uprooted and replaced with a pagan mindset that makes our Creator God look inept at being God, for getting Mary to take on responsibilities not belonging to her, and totally ignoring the “Fact” that she is defrauding her husband when she ignores Joseph’s emotional and sexual needs.

Scripture doesn’t reveal the hatred that is experienced and expressed by the family members of Jesus.  Just think about the 10’s of thousands of comments that the brothers and sisters of Jesus had dumped on them all of their lives.  “Why can you be more like Jesus” and other negative hurtful comments.  Untold 1,000’s of disapproving stares that made it perfectly clear that Jesus was the favorite child of Joseph and Mary.  And being compared to the Promised Messiah (God in the flesh of Jesus) is a no win situation.

Christian will say the blood of Jesus saves them.  But Jesus might have lost several pints of blood before the crucifixion, when the Roman soldiers used a whip on his back and shoulders.  Plus the crown of thorns cutting into his skull would cause the loss of a lot of blood.  But shedding his blood is not a “Complete” sacrifice.  If shedding his blood is all that is needed, then Jesus doesn’t need to die. 

Example:  If I notice that someone is going to shoot someone and I jump in front of them and take a bullet in my shoulder, they will thank my for saving their life.  But I didn’t pay the “Ultimate” sacrifice unless I died for them.  That is why Jesus had to die.  When the Bible says that God became “Like” us in every way, in his conception, birth, and life.  But God has to be like us and make the ultimate sacrifice and die; otherwise God can’t say that His life and sacrifices is like ours.  So making Jesus have no human father eliminates or cancels out His promise to us in becoming a human being and walking with us.  Showing us how he was a good son of Joseph, a good husband to Mary Magdalene and a good father to Barabbas.  The Catholic Church deleted this information in order to please the pagans around the 4th Century and the Protestant Reformation happened 1,000 years later; so they didn’t know what had been added, deleted or changed in our Christian Bible, in order to please the pagans and not the Jews.


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    • Juliet Capulet

      May the blessings of God be upon Mary. She was dedicated to God by her mother before her birth and raised in the temple, where Gabriel, peace be upon him, came to her and gave her the message that she would give birth to the Messiah, Jesus, peace be upon him:

      Chapter 19: Mary

      With the name of God, most beneficient, most merciful1. Kaf- Ha-Ya-’Ain-Sad.

      [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].

      2. (This is) a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariya (Zachariah).

      3. When he called out his Lord (Allah) a call in secret,

      4. Saying: “My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation to You, O my Lord!

      5. “And Verily! I fear my relatives after me, since my wife is barren. So give me from Yourself an heir,

      6. “Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of Ya’qub (Jacob) (inheritance of the religious knowledge and Prophethood, not the wealth, etc.). And make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-pleased!”.

      7. (Allah said) “O Zakariya (Zachariah)! Verily, We give you the glad tidings of a son, His name will be Yahya (John). We have given that name to none before (him).”

      8. He said: “My Lord! How can I have a son, when my wife is barren, and I have reached the extreme old age.”

      9. He said: “So (it will be). Your Lord says; It is easy for Me. Certainly I have created you before, when you had been nothing!”

      10. [Zakariya (Zachariah)] said: “My Lord! Appoint for me a sign.” He said: “Your sign is that you shall not speak unto mankind for three nights, though having no bodily defect.”

      11. Then he came out to his people from Al-Mihrab (a praying place or a private room, etc.), he told them by signs to glorify Allah’s Praises in the morning and in the afternoon.

      12. (It was said to his son): “O Yahya (John)! Hold fast the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah)].” And We gave him wisdom while yet a child.

      13. And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us, and pure from sins [i.e. Yahya (John)] and he was righteous,

      14. And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an arrogant nor disobedient (to Allah or to his parents).

      15. And Salamun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the day he dies, and the day he will be raised up to life (again)!

      16. And mention in the Book (the Qur’an, O Muhammad , the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east.

      17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects.

      18. She said: “Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah) from you, if you do fear Allah.”

      19. (The angel) said: “I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son.”

      20. She said: “How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?”

      21. He said: “So (it will be), your Lord said: ‘That is easy for Me (Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).’ ”

      22. So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place (i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem).

      23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: “Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!”

      24. Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: “Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you;

      25. “And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you.”

      26. “So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: ‘Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.’”

      27. Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: “O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing).

      28. “O sister (i.e. the like) of Harun (Aaron) [not the brother of Musa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman.”

      29. Then she pointed to him. They said: “How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?”

      30. “He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;”

      31. “And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salat (prayer), and charity, as long as I live.”

      32. “And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.

      33. “And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!”

      34. Such is ‘Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute).

      35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, “Be!” and it is.

      36. ['Iesa (Jesus) said]: “And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allah’s Religion of Islamic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets).” [Tafsir At-Tabari]

      37. Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Iesa (Jesus)], so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah] from the meeting of a great Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the blazing Fire).

      38. How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error.

      39. And warn them (O Muhammad ) of the Day of grief and regrets, when the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of carelessness, and they believe not.

      40. Verily! We will inherit the earth and whatsoever is thereon. And to Us they all shall be returned,

      41. And mention in the Book (the Qur’an) Ibrahim (Abraham). Verily! He was a man of truth, a Prophet.

      42. When he said to his father: “O my father! Why do you worship that which hears not, sees not and cannot avail you in anything?

      43. “O my father! Verily! There has come to me of knowledge that which came not unto you. So follow me. I will guide you to a Straight Path.

      44. “O my father! Worship not Shaitan (Satan). Verily! Shaitan (Satan) has been a rebel against the Most Beneficent (Allah).

      45. “O my father! Verily! I fear lest a torment from the Most Beneficent (Allah) overtake you, so that you become a companion of Shaitan (Satan) (in the Hell-fire).” [Tafsir Al-Qurtubi]

      46. He (the father) said: “Do you reject my gods, O Ibrahim (Abraham)? If you stop not (this), I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely before I punish you.”

      47. Ibrahim (Abraham) said: “Peace be on you! I will ask Forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily! He is unto me, Ever Most Gracious.

      48. “And I shall turn away from you and from those whom you invoke besides Allah. And I shall call on my Lord; and I hope that I shall not be unblest in my invocation to my Lord.”

      49. So when he had turned away from them and from those whom they worshipped besides Allah, We gave him Ishaque (Isaac) and Ya’qub (Jacob), and each one of them We made a Prophet.

      50. And We gave them of Our Mercy (a good provision in plenty), and We granted them honour on the tongues (of all the nations, i.e everybody remembers them with a good praise).

      51. And mention in the Book (this Qur’an) Musa (Moses). Verily! He was chosen and he was a Messenger (and) a Prophet.

      52. And We called him from the right side of the Mount, and made him draw near to Us for a talk with him [Musa (Moses)].

      53. And We bestowed on him his brother Harun (Aaron), (also) a Prophet, out of Our Mercy.

      54. And mention in the Book (the Qur’an) Isma’il (Ishmael). Verily! He was true to what he promised, and he was a Messenger, (and) a Prophet.

      55. And he used to enjoin on his family and his people As-Salat (the prayers) and the Zakat, and his Lord was pleased with him.

      56. And mention in the Book (the Qur’an) Idris (Enoch).Verily! He was a man of truth, (and) a Prophet.

      57. And We raised him to a high station.

      58. Those were they unto whom Allah bestowed His Grace from among the Prophets, of the offspring of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Nuh (Noah), and of the offspring of Ibrahim (Abraham) and Israel and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the Verses of the Most Beneficent (Allah) were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping.

      59. Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salat (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salat (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell.

      60. Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allah and His Messenger Muhammad ), and work righteousness. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught.

      61. (They will enter) ‘Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens), which the Most Beneficent (Allah) has promised to His slaves in the unseen: Verily! His Promise must come to pass.

      62. They shall not hear therein (in Paradise) any Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk), but only Salam (salutations of peace). And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and afternoon. [See (V.40:55)].

      63. Such is the Paradise which We shall give as an inheritance to those of Our slaves who have been Al-Muttaqun (pious and righteous persons – See V.2:2).

      64. And we (angels) descend not except by the Command of your Lord (O Muhammad ). To Him belongs what is before us and what is behind us, and what is between those two, and your Lord is never forgetful,

      65. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].

      66. And man (the disbeliever) says: “When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?”

      67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

      68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.

      69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).

      70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.

      71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.

      72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).

      73. And when Our Clear Verses are recited to them, those who disbelieve (the rich and strong among the pagans of Quraish who live a life of luxury) say to those who believe (the weak, poor companions of Prophet Muhammad who have a hard life): “Which of the two groups (i.e. believers and disbelievers) is best in (point of) position and as regards station (place of council for consultation).”

      74. And how many a generation (past nations) have We destroyed before them, who were better in wealth, goods and outward appearance?

      75. Say (O Muhammad ) whoever is in error, the Most Beneficent (Allah) will extend (the rope) to him, until, when they see that which they were promised, either the torment or the Hour, they will come to know who is worst in position, and who is weaker in forces. [This is the answer for the Verse No.19:73]

      76. And Allah increases in guidance those who walk aright [true believers in the Oneness of Allah who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden), and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. And the righteous good deeds that last, are better with your Lord, for reward and better for resort.

      77. Have you seen him who disbelieved in Our Ayat (this Qur’an and Muhammad ) and (yet) says: “I shall certainly be given wealth and children [if I will be alive (again)],”

      78. Has he known the unseen or has he taken a covenant from the Most Beneficent (Allah)?

      79. Nay! We shall record what he says, and We shall increase his torment (in the Hell);

      80. And We shall inherit from him (at his death) all that he talks of (i.e. wealth and children which We have bestowed upon him in this world), and he shall come to Us alone.

      81. And they have taken (for worship) aliha (gods) besides Allah, that they might give them honour, power and glory (and also protect them from Allah’s Punishment etc.).

      82. Nay, but they (the so-called gods) will deny their worship of them, and become opponents to them (on the Day of Resurrection).

      83. See you not that We have sent the Shayatin (devils) against the disbelievers to push them to do evil.

      84. So make no haste against them; We only count out to them a (limited) number (of the days of the life of this world and delay their term so that they may increase in evil and sins).

      85. The Day We shall gather the Muttaqun (pious – see V.2:2) unto the Most Beneficent (Allah), like a delegate (presented before a king for honour).

      86. And We shall drive the Mujrimun (polytheists, sinners, criminals, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, etc.) to Hell, in a thirsty state (like a thirsty herd driven down to water),

      87. None shall have the power of intercession, but such a one as has received permission (or promise) from the Most Beneficent (Allah).

      88. And they say: “The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)].”

      89. Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.

      90. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,

      91. That they ascribe a son (or offspring or children) to the Most Beneficent (Allah).

      92. But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allah) that He should beget a son (or offspring or children).

      93. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) as a slave.

      94. Verily, He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting.

      95. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender).

      96. Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger (Muhammad )] and work deeds of righteousness, the Most Beneficent (Allah) will bestow love for them (in the hearts of the believers).

      97. So We have made this (the Qur’an) easy in your own tongue (O Muhammad ), only that you may give glad tidings to the Muttaqun (pious and righteous persons – See V.2:2), and warn with it the Ludda (most quarrelsome) people.

      98. And how many a generation before them have We destroyed! Can you (O Muhammad ) find a single one of them or hear even a whisper of them?

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