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Exposed, Was The Truth Hidden For 2,000 Years, ARE WE BEING SET UP?

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For 2,000 years a struggle has been going on in the Church. From the very beginning there were those who wanted to bring the Church into bondage. The first Church council was called to settle this very issue. Acts 15




We are told that the Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. We are told that Sunday or Sun-day represents the pagan day of sun worship.

The Catholic Church did not change the day of worship; Saturday is named after Saturn or Satan so that by the same logic it is Satan’s day.



The first thing I always get in reply to the sun-day vs. Satan -day statement is: “well in the Bible Saturday is called the Sabbath”. That is true, but in the Bible Sunday is called the Lord’s day. The names Saturday and Sunday both came from the Romans so calling Sunday “Sun-day” is just a polemic distraction.




Starting with the Epistles, the early Christians all worshipped on Sunday or the Lord’s day. The Catholic Church did not change the Christian day of worship; it was always Sunday. The Church celebrated the Resurrection on the Lord’s day. Sunday was already called the Lord’s day when John wrote the Book of Revelation

Rev. 1:10 NLT It was the Lord’s Day, and I was worshiping in the Spirit…




This can be seen in the Early Church writings.

It is called the Lord’s day in the Didache in 90AD: “But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread”.

Barnabus 100AD “We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead”

Epistle of the Apostles 150AD : “I [Christ] have come into being on the eighth day which is the day of the Lord.”

I could fill this page with quotes from the early church showing that without a doubt they worshipped on Sunday.

I can already hear the cry going up “why, you are saying God changed His Law, God would never change his law: After all, He sanctified the Sabbath forever”.



Show me where any Gentile was ever commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Show me where any Gentile was ever accused of breaking the Sabbath.

Show me where Adam, Abel, Noah, Job, Melchezedek, or anyone before Moses kept the Sabbath.

Yes, they will claim that they must have because the “Sabbath was sanctified” but they will not show me where it says they kept it in scripture.

The Sabbath is not even mentioned in the seven Noahide Laws.

The only commandment not repeated as a command in the New testament is the Sabbath. It is referenced like circumcision and animal sacrifices but it is not repeated as a command.



Justin Martyr, writing in the 2nd century, rejected the need to keep literal seventh-day Sabbath, arguing instead that “the new law requires you to keep the Sabbath constantly.

According to the Book of Hebrews the Sabbath was given to the Jews as a foreshadowing of the true rest that awaited those who fully followed Him. They failed to enter His rest. Christ fulfilled the Sabbath. He is our Sabbath. He is our perpetual rest.

See Hebrews 3&4 And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest…We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.”

So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:

“Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.”

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come.

So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world.


John 5: 16&17NLT So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”




The Church is again being infiltrated by Judaisers. I hear Christians talking more about Israel than they do about Jesus They are wearing the occult star of David, helping build the Temple for the Antichrist, rejecting the day we celebrate the Resurrection , keeping the Passover, and attacking the Apostle Paul. (They say we misunderstand him .)We must get back to our Hebrew roots, they say. I hear “Torah” and “Tanakh” more than I hear John 3:16.









Here are some of the regulations for the Sabbath in the Bible:

No cooking Exod. 16

No causing anyone else to work Exod. 20:10

No working Exod. 31:15

No fire in fireplace. Exod 35:3

No gathering wood for a fireplace Num. 15:32

No buying or selling Neh. 10:31

Cannot carry anything Neh. 13:19

No entertainment or idle talk Isa. 58:13

Ask the people who say you should keep the Sabbath if they obey these regulations. They will give you one excuse after another why they do not apply to them. If they do not keep the Sabbath what is their point?

Ask them what it means then to keep the Sabbath and you will get long convoluted rigmarole and cut and paste links but no answer. ( You will see these popping up in the comment section)

I know from experience (I know more about some of these people than they think I do) that they do not practice what they preach.

Why do some Christians pick up some doctrine like this and harp on it all the time? Every time you get around them it is the same old mantra. “A fanatic never changes the subject or his mind”.

I think they are making this show to cover up for a lack of real moral character. They are trying to hide their own shortcomings by overcompensating. Overcompensate – take excessive measures in attempting to correct or make amends for an error, weakness, or problem.

Whenever they come whopping and hollering Hallelujah, better hide your wallet and your wife.

As for me, I will continue to celebrate the day our Lord defeated death and the Devil. He is risen indeed.


 Mike Clinton    Hiawassee, Ga. 10/19/2013


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    Total 95 comments
    • Greyghost

      OK; we know the Jews worshiped Satan, JC says so, therefore on can say that it was Saturn’s day, or Satan’s day if you wish.
      To my knowledge though, there have only been 7 days in the week, so what is this eighth day the Jews are on about?

    • am123

      Interesting timing on this article Mike. I have been arguing….er….discussing, recently with brother BEEF about the first day (Sunday) being the day of resurrection, for he claims it occurred on the Sabbath. According to Luke 24:1, it occurred on Sunday. So it could get interesting if BEEF shows up and comments….. :grin:

      • Mike Clinton

        Well am123, I have been in training debating Rob Skiba and all his little minions on this. :grin:

        • am123


          When you say “all his little minions”, do you mean literal little minions of this “type”: :evil: :?:

          Or just Rob Skiba wannabe’s acting in the flesh, whilst at the same time being influenced by these little minions of which I speak: :evil: Hmmm :?:


          On a more serious note, when you say you’re in training debating Rob Skiba, surely you aren’t saying that Rob Skiba (and his minions…. :evil: :evil: :evil: :lol: ) doesn’t believe in the resurrection occurring on the first day of the week, the glorious third day, the day of the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Savior of all mankind, light of the world :idea: ……are you :?:

          Surely not :!: :eek:

          At least I hope not :!: :grin:

        • Mike Clinton

          I asked Rob what day the Resurrection occurred on. You will not believe his answer. He said it was neither Saturday or Sunday but a line right between the two. I asked him if he kept the Sabbath regulations and one by one he dismissed them as not applying to him. Very typical.

        • am123

          “He said it was neither Saturday or Sunday but a line right between the two.”

          Impossible :mad: :!:

          The depths of foolishness and silly semantics of it all :!:

          I can’t believe people actually believe in this exact, pinpoint, nano-second timing of a 72 hour fulfillment period of the resurrection. Not only is it totally foolish, but it violates the “third day” idiom and pattern contained in the Bible.

        • am123

          By the “third day” pattern, I mean the “third day” in our modern terminology is the day after tomorrow.

          While I’m not sure about Rob Skiba’s view on this particular issue if he maintains the passion/persecution/crucifixion/resurrection timeline was a literal 72 hours, but some in that camp do and it is them I say violate the “third day” pattern given us in Scripture as follows:

          :arrow: Exodus 19:9-16

          :arrow: Leviticus 19:5-6

          :arrow: Luke 13:32

          So the crucifixion happened on FRI and SUN was the third day from then, or Sunday is the the day after tomorrow relative to Friday.

          But none that I know of in the camp who claim a Sabbath resurrection claim a THUR crucifixion. So not only are they in error as to when the resurrection happened (Luke 24:1 says Sunday), but in their timeline of a Saturday resurrection, they foolishly claim a literal 72 hour period so they have the resurrection on Wednesday or something, violating the “third day” pattern we see in Scripture :!:

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “He said it was neither Saturday or Sunday but a line right between the two.”

          That’s always what happens when you build doctrine around incomplete understanding. You get aberrations and abominations. Is there now a day between Saturday and Sunday? He knows he’s looking for something, so he just invents it out thin air. That’s a sign right there. The meaning of the sign is that he should spend more time studying and searching and less time teaching and selling books.

        • am123

          “he should spend more time studying and searching and less time teaching and selling books”

          Bingo! You got that right BEEF. Anyone who says the resurrection happened BETWEEN Saturday and Sunday should not be teaching or leading others.

        • Truthseeker007

          that deceiver, whilst living, said; after three days, I will arise.” (Matt. 27:63). “… and after three days, ( he will ) rise again.” (Mark 8:31). It just so happened, that the cruci-fiction in the Jesus story took place on Friday, while the sun was still out, and Jesus (if he were a real person), by law, had to be taken down from the cross by dusk (not only by ordinary Roman law, but also because dusk Friday was the beginning of the Sabbeth, which lasted till dusk Saturday). Let’s say for the sake of arguement, that he was crucified at dawn (at ‘cock-crow’ as it is called), then let’s count the days. Friday, 6:00 A.M. to Saturday 6:00 A.M. is one day. The last mention we have of Jesus is before the end of the Sabbeth, which is Saturday at dusk. The next is that he has risen before dawn Sunday! That’s not even Two days! But in the story, three separate days are implied deliberately – to throw us off the trail! Just another one of those darned inconsistancies, that, by the way, is the source for the expression; “What a difference a day makes.”

        • BEEF SUPREME

          It can truly be said that you are your own worst enemy, 007.

      • Truthseeker007

        Of coarse it is Sun-Day because the Christian Religion is based on the worship of the Sun.

        Many motives as to why these narratives are so similar, with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, and who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were all based on the movements of the Sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet because the Sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. Or in other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the Sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the Sun through the heavens.

        For instance, many of the world’s crucified godmen have their traditional birthday on December 25th (“Christmas”). This is because the ancients recognized that from an earthcentric perspective the Sun makes an annual descent southward until December 21st or 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops moving southerly for three days and then starts to move northward again. During this time, the ancients declared that “God’s Sun” had “died” for three days and was “born again” on December 25th.

        The ancients realized quite abundantly that they needed the Sun to return every day and that they would be in big trouble if the Sun continued to move southward and did not stop and reverse its direction. Thus, these many different cultures celebrated the “Sun of God’s” birthday on December 25th.

        The following are the characteristics of the “Sun of God”

        In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the Sun would therefore be “born of a Virgin.”

        The Sun is the “Light of the World.”

        The Sun “cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him.”

        The Sun rising in the morning is the “Savior of mankind.”

        The Sun wears a corona, “crown of thorns” or halo.

        The Sun “walks on water.”

        The Sun’s “followers,” “helpers” or “disciples” are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the Sun must pass.

        The Sun at 12:00 noon is in the house or temple of the “Most High”; thus, “he” begins “his Father’s work” at “age” 12.

        The Sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the “Sun of God” begins his ministry at “age” 30.

        The Sun is hung on a cross or “crucified,” which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.

        The Egyptian Pharaohs also identified themselves in life with the Sun god Horus and in death with his father Osiris. These myths identified the Pharaoh as both the earthly form of the royal falcon god who triumphed over his enemies and the pious son who claims the throne after the death of his father. Whilst Osiris ruled the dead in the underworld, Horus ruled the living. Horus and Osiris, just like Jesus, became interchangeable in the mythos (“I and my Father are one”). Horus, who predates the Christ by 3000 years shared the following in common with him.

        Horus was called “Iusa/Iao/Iesu/Iusha” the “KRST,” with Iusha even contributing to the name of Jesus which in Hebrew of course is Yeshua (Iusha). In the Old Testament, it is Joshua (Iusha) son of Jacob.

        Horus became born of the virgin Isis-Meri (Mary) on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

        His earthly father was named “Seb” (“Joseph”).

        He was of royal descent.

        At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

        Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by “Anup the Baptizer” (“John the Baptist”), who was decapitated.

        He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his “witnesses” and were named “Anup” and “Aan” (the two “Johns”).

        He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus (“El-Osiris”), from the dead.

        Horus walked on water.

        His personal epithet was “Iusa,” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was thus called “Holy Child.”

        He delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”

        Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

        He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

        He was also the “Way, the Truth, the Light,” “Messiah,” “God’s Anointed Son,” the “Son of Man,” the “Good Shepherd,” the “Lamb of God,” the “Word made flesh,” the “Word of Truth,” etc.

        He was “the Fisher” and was associated with the Fish (“Ichthys”), Lamb and Lion.

        He came to fulfill the Law.

        Horus was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.”

        Horus’s principal enemy was “Set” (biblical Seth) or “Sata” (Satan) Set represents the Serpent of the Night. Horus is the Golden Sun (Son) it becomes the struggle between day and night for supremacy.

        Like Jesus, “Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years.”

        • Dreamwalker

          If the first day is Sunday, the birth of the Sun is on the 4th day which is Wednesday. The day of rest is Saturday. Sabbath is Saturday if the first day is Sunday. Light was created on the first, the Sun and Moon on 4th. Light was created before the sun was created.Winter Solstice is on the 21. december. This year that is a Sunday, the birth of the Sun is on Wednesday 24th. If you follow Genesis you should not follow our callendars but the sun, moon and the stars to be guided to feast days. The year should start on Winter Solstice. Our callendars dont follow the Bible, the Sunday doesnt mean a thing, its just a day on the callendar. God created the sun, moon, and stars to count feast days, not the Gregorian or Julian callendar. The three wise men are the stars of Orions belt. On winter solstice look for these wise men and they will point out on a straight line to Sirius, which is the Mother. Mary or Isis. The son is born as the sun is in the center of the milky way, out of the virgin.


      Brothers am123 and Mike,

      What follows is one disciple’s cry into the ears of the brethren. This isn’t something I do very often. But since this matter clearly is not going away, YHWH’s words to Ezekiel the Prophet are literally ringing in my ears. If I hold my peace on this matter, I fear what He might do to me, and I fear the charges to which He might hold me accountable. And please bear with my prodigious usage of ALL CAPS below. I need EMPHASIS for what follows. MUCH EMPHASIS.

      Mike wrote:


      Oh yes it is, but the deception is deep. It is much deeper than is commonly understood.

      “The first thing I always get in reply to the sun-day vs. Satan -day statement is: “well in the Bible Saturday is called the Sabbath”. That is true”

      No. It is NOT true. It is FALSE. This entire paradigm is a bad paradigm. Is it Sunday? Is it Saturday? This is no different from asking which ONE of the 40,000 501 (c)(3) denominations is the true and CORRECT denomination. Such a leading question begs the answer to be given from a lengthy list, but the choices we are offered to select from are ALL bad choices. The answer is not obvious because it is never even put on the table by the enemy for us to choose from. Similarly, in the case of the Sabbath, the choices are commonly but erroneously limited to two (usually) false choices. BAD PARADIGM.

      The Sabbath of YHWH is not on either of the days most commonly wrangled over in this debate. SO THEN, on which of the Pagan (Satanic) weekday names are we to observe the Sabbath of YHWH??

      The answer to this question is: On NONE of them. The Seventh Day of YHWH’s Calendar IS NOT the Seventh Day of the Pagan Satanic calendar. This is of immeasurable importance.

      “…but in the Bible Sunday is called the Lord’s day.”

      If this statement is true, it is true ONLY in translation. NOWHERE in the Greek New Testament is the FIRST DAY referred to as the Lord’s Day. This is NOT my opinion on the matter. It is a cold, hard, DANGEROUS fact. Brothers – look up ‘FIRST’ in Greek. Look up ‘DAY’ in Greek. Look up ‘WEEK’ in Greek. And be sure to look up all of the accepted and acceptable variants of those words. This is actually not a difficult task to accomplish. Trust no one on this matter but Messiah and His Father.

      “The names Saturday and Sunday both came from the Romans so calling Sunday “Sun-day” is just a polemic distraction.”

      THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS FACT CANNOT BE OVEREMPHASIZED. Most, almost all, of the trouble and confusion surrounding this issue is directly associated with the fact that the Pagan Week names bear NO LEGITIMATE and ABIDING connection to ANY DAY of YHWH’s Calendar. This is the main problem. Once this fact is given due consideration, the need to draw a firm distinction between YHWH’s Calendar and SATAN’s calendar becomes MANIFESTLY APPARENT. LIGHT HAS NO FELLOWSHIP WITH DARKNESS. YHWH’s WAYS ARE NOT THE SAME AS SATAN’S WAYS. EVERYTHING SATAN DOES IS A COUNTERFEIT OF SOMETHING GENUINE AND ORIGINAL.


      YHWH’s Calendar and SATAN’s calendar DO NOT TRACK in the same fashion. There is a discrepancy in the system which makes UNITY between these two systems UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE.


      NO!!! It did NOT. This calls for an IN DEPTH STUDY into the Greek term ‘mia ton sabbaton.’ The other day I asked (rather emphatically) that brother am123 spend some time in study of this Greek phrase. THIS IS THE KEY TO THE TOPIC RIGHT HERE. Either you understand the meaning of this Greek phrase, or you CANNOT rightly divide the word of truth on this matter. Let me say that again:


      BROTHERS – I don’t ask you to take my word for anything. You would be a FOOL if you took my word for any of this. But as a fellow Disciple of Messiah Yehoshua, the only Born Son of the Most High, whom I believe we agree is the Messiah of Scripture, called Jesus Christ by you both… I offer you my testimony that the translation from Greek into English conceals the truth of this problem. IN THE ENGLISH, it is apparent that the ‘Day of the Lord’ is the First Day of the Week, which we call ‘Sunday.’ BUT IN THE GREEK, THIS IS NOT THE CASE. The translations are either mistaken, or they INTENTIONALLY DEFORM THE TRUTH in order to keep the followers of Messiah from doing as He has commanded them to do. Brothers, you MUST DIVE DEEP into the waters and learn the truth of this Greek phrase. This is not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of LINGUISTICS. The Greek phrase MIA TON SABBATON, which is DECEITFULLY translated into English as ‘the First Day of the Week’, not only DOES NOT, but CANNOT meet the demands placed on it by the English translators. We have been handed a lie by the scribes. THE SCRIBES ARE STILL LYING TO US BROTHERS. THE SCRIBES ARE LYING.

      Jude quotes from Enoch. Enoch should be heard from on this matter. Jubilees should be heard from on this matter. But leave off of the apocryphal and pseudepigraphical works if you must. Just please examine the meaning of the Greek, upon which all of this rests. And please do not bother to refute anything I have said above until you have closely and thoroughly examined the evidence in this case. You aren’t battling against me. And I wouldn’t say anything, if there weren’t so much to be said.

      The pattern of deception should be evident. It must be explored and dragged into the light in order for it to be rendered of no effect.

      More than that, I really cannot say, with the exception perhaps of laying bare the details of the Calendar of Scripture – which I have spent years working on in tandem with many of our brothers and sisters. It fits Scripture canon like a hand in a glove. But the Calendar is BESIDE THE POINT. The point is the DAY. The point is the GREEK.

      That’s as loud of a warning as I know how to sound.

      Listen to the thunder.

      • am123


        There is much you said that I agree with like the following for example:

        “SO THEN, on which of the Pagan (Satanic) weekday names are we to observe the Sabbath of YHWH??
        The answer to this question is: On NONE of them.”

        Amen to that brother :!:

        Although that will not always be the case, it is now so for gentiles in this dispensation we currently find ourselves in.

        You said:

        “…but in the Bible Sunday is called the Lord’s day.”
        If this statement is true, it is true ONLY in translation. NOWHERE in the Greek New Testament is the FIRST DAY referred to as the Lord’s Day.”

        While I agree that Messiah rose on the first day, I disagree with Mike’s statement about the Bible calling Sunday the Lord’s day. In Revelation 1:10, John was talking about the LORDs DAY, as in the DAY OF THE LORD.

        And you said this BEEF and ALL of it I AGREE with:


        And I for one really appreciate the stuff you bring to the table BEEF on these WEIGHTY issues. But when it comes to this MIA TON SABBATON thing, like I told you before, I just don’t have much understanding on this particular matter and while I am willing to listen to you on this, unless you can convince me otherwise, I’m standing right on Luke 24:1 until further notice.

        Don’t hold your breath :!:

        But I do appreciate the sound of the alarm from the depth of your soul muchas gracias BEEF :!:

        Thank you for alerting me to a matter you consider of the UTMOST seriousness brother :!:

        Since I have started posting at BIN, I have enjoyed the meat you bring to the table in these discussions BEEF. And I am much sharper in my theology because of previous jousting encounters. Thanks for discussing things that matter BIG GUY :!:

    • The Marian Catechist

      The Sabbath used to be on Saturday, or the last day of the week, in the old Jewish religion. After Christ established His Holy Catholic Church, the Sabbath was was changed to Sunday, the first day of the week. The significance being that the Resurrection occurred on Sunday, and to emphasize newness or restoration. In the beginning, God ended His work of Creation on the last day of the week, on which He rested. Now, with the work of Redemption accomplished, a type of new creation, or a restoration of the old, the day of rest is transferred to the first day of the week. The old creation restored in a new era with a new beginning.

      • 3AM

        Your arguments are as pathetic as your articles (on which you don’t allow any comments) are…


        The apple doesn’t fall far.., does it?

        …luckily the REFORMATION happened AND PEOPLE STARTED READING THEIR BIBLES. One by one these Reformers went to their deaths,.. DISHED OUT BY THE cATHOLIC cHURCH in the most HORRENDOUS WAYS!!! Maybe as many as 100 000 000 MARTYRS died for their BIBLICAL FAITH in JESUS CHRIST… Some of them singing while being burned at the stake. THIS ONLY STRENGTHENED THE REFORMATION and they had to leave everything they knew to FLEE AWAY FROM THE TYRANNY OF TOME and established countries like AMERICA and SOUTH AFRICA (used to be protestant countries) IN SOUTH AFRICA THE WHITES ARE BEING MURDERED ON THEIR FARMS IN THE MOST HORRENDOUS WAYS (ring any bells?)… Our now black government with its polygamist president with a third grade education who struggles to read speeches written for him by Jesuits (society of jesus (not my Jesus),a roman catholic military order) have taken control and is doing away with all things Christian. THIS WHILE SACRIFICING ANIMALS TO THEIR FOREFATHERS (who are dead, like Mary…) SATAN HAS TAKEN CONTROL OF AMERICA AND SOUTH AFRICA via JESUIT INFILTRATION into our gouvernments, universities, schools and churches….. GOOGLE THIS MOST EFFECTIVE ORGANISATION (jesuits) WHO HAVE PERFECTED FREEMASONRY AS THEIR MOST EFFECTIVE TOOLTO ACHIEVE ROME’S GOALS THE WORLD OVER and to prepare for satan’s coming. WHILE YOU ARE AT IT,… google “L.U.C.I.F.E.R. telescope” The proud owner of this infrared piece of technology is GUESS WHO?…I’ll give you a clue… THE ORGANIZATION ARRAYS “herself” IN PURPLE AND SCARLET like in REVELATION…

        Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein… THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED AN ANTI-TYPE OF THE TYPE…

        THEY SAY HISTORY TEND TO REPEAT ITSELF… Jeremiah was God’s prophet and warned Israel about the BABYLONIAN INVASION, but they would not HEAR

        The apple doesn’t fall far.., does it?

        REV 14:[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
        [7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
        [8] And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
        [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
        [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

        REV 18:[7] How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
        [8] Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
        [9] And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
        [10] Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
        [11] And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
        [12] The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
        [13] And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
        [14] And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
        [15] The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
        [16] And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
        [17] For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
        [18] And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

    • Mike Clinton

      Mr. Beef, first you have a lot to say about God’s calendar and the pagan calendar but you never tell us what the God’s calendar is. (I will use English terms) Could the people in the Antarctic go by a calendar based on sunset to sunset? No, because that calendar was given to the Jews.

      Then you go on a long tirade about the real meaning of the Greek. Having already looked at this I can tell you in English what it says. In English it is first day of the week. Now a Hebrew would say the first of a seven because that is how they said week. See how easy this is.

      Finally, for now, you say that the early church did not worship on Sunday (yep, English again) but all the writings we have say they did. So produce one quote from the early church about the Sabbath being the day they worshiped. I gave quotes showing that they called it the Lord’s day. Lord’s in this form only occurs one other time. It means something pertaining to the Lord. The other time is “the Lord’s Supper.


        Please break it down for me Mike.

        What does MIA mean?

        What does TON mean?

        What does SABBATON mean?

        Please show me how to get ‘first day of the week’ from MIA TON SABBATON.

        I’m being sincere. Let’s approach this as a purely mechanical operation, forgetting, for the moment, the attendant weight of the matter. Mechanics. One word at a time, or all together, in any order you like. Please show me how to get ‘first day of the week’ from those Greek words.

        I’ll tell you what. I’ll even spot you SABBATON. I contend that SABBATON does not and cannot mean week. But for the sake of this (friendly) debate, I will submit to defining SABBATON as ‘week.’ Now please show me how to get ‘first’ and ‘day’ from MIA and TON.

        If you can, I’ll pack it in and relent.

        The problem is the permanency of the covenant and the promise. You are insisting on change when I hear our Father say: ‘NO CHANGE.’

        If I am being too pushy for you brother, just say the word and I’ll back off. I want no smarm or guff to come between us.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr. Beef

          Mia – first as in first and second warning. Titus 3:10
          Ton – definite article
          Sabbaton a week as in twice in the week Luke 18:12

          So, first the week. The (day of) is implied. First day of the week.

          Now, show me anywhere mia ton Sabbaton occurs when it is not referring to the resurrection and the resulting gathering of Christians on that day. Show me “first the week” anywhere else.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr. Beef, are you still looking for that quote about worshipping on the Sabbath from the early church?

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Here is a word-for-word literal interpretation from the interlinear:

          Titus 3:10

          Sectarian human after ONE (MIAN) and a SECOND (DEUTEROS) admonition be you refusing.

          Next, you can always try to plug MIA (μια) or MIAN (μιαν) into a translator to see what gives. It is inappropriate to translate MIA or MIAN as ‘first.’

          “GROSS MISTRANSLATION” is the term applied to the translation of MIA TON SABBATON as ‘first (day) of the week’ in the following article which I pulled from very near the top of a HUGE list of material related to this matter. There is ENORMOUS controversy surrounding this subject for a very good reason. And Mike, I would have nothing against Messiah having been resurrected on the First Day of the Week if that was IN FACT what the Scriptures recorded. What follows is about as clear a synopsis as you will find:

          (From an article entitled)

          “On the New Testament Designations used for Specifying the Seventh Day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread, and On the Non-Existence of any References to any Events of Importance in the New Testament Giving reference to the First Day of the Week”

          Begin quote:

          Let’s first consider Mark 14:12 briefly. Here we find a New Testament designation of the First Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. To designate said first day of said feast, an ordinal number, the Greek word “πρωτη” (i.e. an adjective denoting order, first, second, hundredth, etc.) is being used, the full phrase being “the first day of Unleavened Bread,” i.e. in Greek: “πρωτη ημερα των αζυμων.” Matthew 26:17 is using a similar construction for the same day: “πρωτη των αζυμων.” Those two are the only passages using both “πρωτη” and “αζυμων.” In contradistinction, when designating the Seventh Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the New Testament is in seven instances out of eight using the cardinal number one, i.e. the Greek word “μια,” and a word meaning “of the Shabbats,” i.e. the Greek word “σαββατων,” the full phrase being “number one Shabbat,” or in Greek: “μια σαββατων.” In the eighth instance the Greek words “πρωτη σαββατου” are being used. This fact is unambiguously demonstrated in the study below.

          Further confirmation of a usage such as the one described above and used for the Feast of Unleavened Bread may be found in John 7:37, where a parallel designation is being used for the Seventh Day of the Feast of Tabernacles.

          “The First Day of the Week” is the phrase used by KJV for translating Greek text passages such as “μια των σαββατων.” Mark 16:9 is an exception using different Greek words, “πρωτη σαββατου,” but meaning the same thing. “The First Day of the Week” when found in a New Testament translation of the Received Text, Textus Receptus, is in every instance a gross mistranslation. The original Greek text in the Textus Receptus is, in six out of seven of these text passages, as found in KJV (Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, 19, Acts 20:7, and 1 Corinthians 16:2,) very clearly giving reference to the Seventh Day of Unleavened Bread. Mark 16:9 is an eighth instance of KJV using the phrase “the first day of the week,” which likewise clearly means the same as the first mentioned seven passages, i.e. the Seventh Day of Unleavened Bread. The Seventh Day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath of sorts (cf. Leviticus 23:8, Numbers 28:25.) The Greek word “σαββατων” in 1 Corinthians 16:2 is also giving reference to the Sabbath and not to Sunday, i.e. not to “the first day of the week,” a fact that is easily confirmed by the fact that 1 Corinthians in its entirety is focusing upon thoughts that have to do with the upcoming Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread.

          End quote.

          The mountain of evidence for this problem is one of the STEEPEST you will ever find.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr.Beef You have not disproved anything I said in my article.

          The early Greek speaking church disagrees with you and your “mountain of evidence”.

          I listed a bunch of conclusions in my article point by point.

          So, as best I can see, you have not disproved anything I said in my article.

          My article still stands.

          I answer your questions but you do not answer mine. You ignore my answer and post long links in reply. I could find long links to reply to your long links I suppose.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Ask me two questions I have not answered Mike.

          Even ask me three.

          And if I have to I will set my sights on the Didache. I would prefer not to. The focus should be kept as narrow as possible. The question is: Can MIA be translated as the ordinal form of the number ‘one.’ That is the only question we should be asking, except perhaps — has the understanding of the word changed over time, as you appear to be stipulating. So rather than me parsing your article for questions that you might think I haven’t addressed, please ask them to me directly.

        • Mike Clinton


          Show me a quote from the early church where they worshipped on the Sabbath

          show me where anyone before Moses kept the Sabbath

          show me where God ever accused a Gentile of breaking the Sabbath

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Mike wrote:

          “Show me a quote from the early church where they worshipped on the Sabbath”

          Acts 15:21

          For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues EVERY SABBATH DAY.

          Brother – what do you think this verse is doing here? James has just said that the initial stipulations to be laid upon the incoming Gentiles are fine for now, BECAUSE the newcomers can learn the TORAH in the synagogues every Sabbath. The Jews had been brought up in the Torah. But since you disagree with this understanding, then please explain to me the meaning and the purpose of James’ words in this verse. What is this verse doing in Scripture, where it is, if not speaking plainly of continuing Sabbath observance? There is nothing written in the Word besides which indicates the Sabbath is not an age-abiding institution.

          “show me where anyone before Moses kept the Sabbath”

          We won’t have to look far for this answer. Posted without chapter and verse citation, which should not be needed:

          THUS THE HEAVENS and the Earth were finished, and all the host of them. AND ON THE SEVENTH DAY, GOD ended His word which He had made…


          Furthermore, I call on the Book of Jubilees. This Book USED TO BE included among the Jewish canon. Furthermore, this Book was plainly revered by the Qumran Community, which had preserved multiple copies of this work, as well as 1 Enoch, as well as detailed calendar-related documents, which were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls. I believe Jubilees and 1 Enoch to be inspired. Jude, as you are aware, directly quotes Enoch. Peter and James reference him less directly. And since you have demonstrated a willingness to consider other ‘early church’ documents, then there is no reason why Jubilees and 1 Enoch should be kept off the table. Neither Jubilees nor 1 Enoch contradict anything written in Scripture canon.

          Jubilees 2:1-20

          And He gave us a great sign, the Sabbath day, so that we might work six days and observe a Sabbath from all work on the Seventh Day. And He told us – all of the angels of the presence and all of the angels of sanctification, these two great kinds – that we might keep the Sabbath with Him in Heaven and on Earth. And He said to us, “Behold I shall separate for Myself a people from among all the nations. And they will also keep the Sabbath. And I will sanctify them for Myself, and I will bless them. And they will be My people and I will be their God.”

          “show me where God ever accused a Gentile of breaking the Sabbath”

          Why? A Gentile ceases being a Gentile once he is baptized and receives the Holy Spirit. Do you contend that this is not the case? The Apostle Paul has spoken at length on this point. The nations flow to Vine. The True Vine is a Light to the nations, and they cease being ‘goyim’ once they abide in the Vine.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr. Beef, this is what you come up with as answers to my questions. We will talk later. Gots work to do.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          I am more than a little shocked by your response Mike.

          I guess you had better see to the business which places such strict demands your attention.

          Be careful what you dismiss brother.

        • Mike Clinton

          No need to be shocked Mr.Beef. Still friends?

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Still on the same team brother.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr. Beef, Your proof that the early church worshipped on the Sabbath is to show me that the Jews did. This in the very chapter where it was determined that the Gentiles did not have to keep the Law of Moses which the Sabbath was a part of. If the Jews had a problem with this they could go to the Synagogues where Moses was still preached every Sabbath.

          Your proof that people kept the Sabbath before Moses was to quote a book written after Moses, about Moses, and reinterprets history based on the Sabbath.

          You agree, sort of, the a Gentile can never break the Sabbath.

          The points in my article remain unrefuted.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “Your proof that the early church worshipped on the Sabbath is to show me that the Jews did.”


          In the interest of honesty, you must admit that this is nothing but your interpretation of the verses of Acts 15. The fact is this – there is NO SUCH THING as a verse in Scripture which nakedly states that the Torah of YHWH had ever been rendered obsolete. It is doctrine to suggest that the Torah has been rendered obsolete, considering the FACT that nothing in Scripture unambiguously says so. Rather, all of the unambiguous verses of Scripture state very, very plainly, that the Instructions of YHWH are permanent, age-abiding instructions which WILL NOT CHANGE, EVER until Heaven and Earth pass away. ALL of the unambiguous verses say the same thing. NONE of the unambiguous verses say what you claim they are saying.

          The verse I quoted cannot be explained by what you have offered. EVERYONE KNEW that Moses had been preached in the synagogues until that point. MIKE – WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE POINT of James’ statement, were it not for the fact that he was saying the newcomers could learn the Torah on the Sabbaths in the synagogue? Please, please explain to me what James had on his mind. Nothing said in Scripture is said for no reason. The truth of the situation should be clear. James was saying that the newcomers HAD TO abide by the four principles named, and that this would be ENOUGH FOR THE TIME BEING, considering THE FACT that Moses is preached in the synagogues every Sabbath, where the newcomers WOULD BE learning about the Torah of YHWH.

          FACT – The Sabbath is NOT just for the Jews. If I know ANYTHING Mike, I know that much.

          “This in the very chapter where it was determined that the Gentiles did not have to keep the Law of Moses which the Sabbath was a part of.”

          Nothing of the kind ever transpired in the Book of Acts. The Apostles were discussing amongst themselves HOW MUCH of the Torah should be required of the newcomers at that time. The rest they could learn in the synagogues on the Sabbath, wherein Moses was preached.

          NOTE: In Scripture, the flood is at times referred to as “The Flood of Noah.” This is the same thing as the LAW OF MOSES. Noah didn’t create the flood, just as Moses didn’t create the LAW. The Law of Moses is the TORAH of YHWH, and is an AGE-ABIDING covenant, which YHWH Himself has affirmed and confirmed on many, many occasions.

          “If the Jews had a problem with this they could go to the Synagogues where Moses was still preached every Sabbath.”

          That is NOT what is written in those verses. NO ONE is talking about the Jews having a hard time with anything, except that they themselves had a hard time FOLLOWING THE TORAH. Because the Jews themselves had a hard time following the Torah, it would not have been wise, the Apostles decided, to REQUIRE the newcomers to contend with the entire body of Instruction ALL AT ONCE. THIS is what is being discussed in Acts chapter 15. There is nothing said about the Jews running to the synagogue if they didn’t like something.

          “Your proof that people kept the Sabbath before Moses was to quote a book written after Moses, about Moses, and reinterprets history based on the Sabbath.”

          I showed you that YHWH Himself kept the Sabbath. Do you deny this? YHWH kept the Sabbath. And do you believe Jubilees is a lie? Why? Why do you give the lie to this Book? The Qumran Community did not agree with you, and the Sanhedrin, before the time of Messiah, did not agree with you. I do not agree with you. If you think Jubilees is not what it purports itself to be, and was not written by whom and at the time it is purported to have been written, then perhaps you would not mind telling me how you have managed to reach such a conclusion. There are other books which record Sabbath keeping prior to Moses. Why is the Didache acceptable to you and these other books are not? How are you making these determinations? The Sabbath was instituted at the time of the Seventh Day of Creation, and has been observed by the Heavenly powers ever since that time. The unchanging ordinance to observe the Sabbath abides even to this day. Please show me any evidence you have to the contrary.

          “You agree, sort of, the a Gentile can never break the Sabbath.”

          No. I agree that a Gentile has no part in the Sabbath. Please do not alter what I have said.

          “The points in my article remain unrefuted.”

          I’m afraid that everyone reading this exchange can see for themselves that your statement is untrue. I have refuted the entire premise of your article. I do not claim to have proven anything. I can do nothing but provide evidence. But I challenge the veracity of every aspect your premise.

        • Mike Clinton

          Remind me Mr. Beef, do you think circumcision and sacrifices are still a part of the Torah?

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Mike asked:

          “Remind me Mr. Beef, do you think circumcision and sacrifices are still a part of the Torah?”

          Fair question. But you will recall my beliefs on sacrifice are that nothing is said in Scripture about sacrifice being rendered obsolete – with the exception, that is, of animal sacrifice for sin. I believe there is merit to the argument that the requirement for the blood atonement for sin has been dealt with, once and for all time, by Messiah. But there are many other types of animal sacrifice. And about these many other sacrificial types, nothing is written in Scripture which tells us they have been done away with. If we assume the requirements for ALL forms of animal sacrifice have been eliminated, based on anything the Apostle Paul has written, then we do so amiss and we add to what Paul has written. The fact that animal sacrifice should not be performed at present can be attributed to the fact that there is no Altar and there is no Priesthood, save for the order of Melchizedech, of which Messiah Himself is High Priest. No Altar and no available Priesthood means no animal sacrifice.

          Circumcision. Anticipating your argument here, I will cut to the chase and stipulate that the Apostle Paul never once preached against the COVENANT of circumcision. Paul himself circumcised, so if you intend to argue that Paul believed that the COVENANT of circumcision had been rendered of none effect, then you believe that Paul was duplicitous and followed at least two sets of rules. There is one set of rules. Paul preached against the improper implementation of circumcision. Paul preached that circumcision, performed for its own sake, rendered the Gospel and the Grace of Messiah of no effect. Paul preached that if the newcomers were persuaded to become circumcised by the Jews, who were pressuring the newcomers to be circumcised according to the LETTER of the LAW, then the newcomers would have become beholden to the Law as their savior, and would have fallen under the curse if they gave offense in even the slightest part. This is how circumcision can profit you nothing. The letter kills because of the curse. The Spirit saves. The Spirit of circumcision is the Covenant of Circumcision, which is circumcision of the flesh according to the Will, the Spirit, and the Instruction of YHWH. So to answer your question, I believe that the Covenant of Circumcision, against which Paul never preached, is as much a part of the Torah today as it ever was. The Covenant of Circumcision is an age-abiding covenant. And though we do well to learn its deeper, spiritual meaning, we remain obligated to fulfill the requirement of circumcision of the flesh, according to the age-abiding statute ordained by YHWH Himself.

        • am123


          To put this beef (pun intended) or spat in perspective, consider this:

          Jesus asked will He find faith when He returns.

          So first and foremost of course is we believe Jesus died and rose again on the third day.

          That we have no question on at all.

          We are quibbling as to whether the glorious third day after the crucifixion was on Sunday or Saturday.

          If one ones to go by the KJV, Luke 24:1 says it was on the first day, which is what we call Sunday.

          But the Beef man disputes this first day translation of the KJV.

          But I would argue that whether Luke 24:1 means Sunday or Saturday is a minor point in relation to the BIGGER POINT of that day being the glorious THIRD DAY that our LORD JESUS CHRIST RESURRECTED.

          To that point, let us for arguments sake say that the resurrection occurred on Saturday. So the crucifixion would have had to occur on Thursday because of the “third day” definition/pattern we are given in the Word, as espoused by:

          :arrow: Exodus 19:9-16

          :arrow: Leviticus 19:5-6

          :arrow: Luke 13:32

          I would venture a guess that 90+ % of those in the camp of Sabbath day resurrection believers (I wonder if you are the only exception to this BEEF) also believe in this passion/persecution/crucifixion/resurrection scenario that encompasses a precise, nano-second, geeky (not “Greeky”) 72 hour period timeline that is full of foolishness and silly semantics and flies in the face of what the Word proclaims. So these so-called believers reject what they see in the witness of the Word for the witness of someone teaching a timeline that is something other than what Scripture teaches on the matter. They are missing the boat altogether regardless of what day the resurrection was on and therefore, I believe this relegates the Sun/Sat controversy to a lesser point.

          Anyway, having said that, for the record, I am in the camp that proclaims Jesus died on Friday and resurrected on Sunday. But that didn’t change the Jewish Sabbath at all, which is and will remain on the seventh day, what we call Saturday.

          For us blood-covered gentile believers in Messiah, we are free from rules and regulations lest we latch onto legalism. However, our freedom does not negate the ceremonial rules and regulations of the Jewish priests in an earthly temple. And I think it is in this gray area of things that we believers fight over many things.

          If we walk by faith and not by sight, we know that the bride is going to become without spot or wrinkle before Jesus returns. So it’s going to all work out as hopelessly as that looks in that natural.

          We gentile believers will eventually come around to the understanding that the law of Moses will not be done away with until this present heaven and earth are done away with. And then when we get a new heavens and new earth, the New Jerusalem will come down out of heaven to earth and in a northern suburb of the New Jerusalem will be the temple of God as described and proclaimed by Ezekiel. All the inhabitants of the earth will observe the Sabbaths, New Moons, and festivals of the LORD on the mountains of Israel at that time.

          So with that, I would like to close with a prayer for us believers:

          We put all things in your hands Father/Abba and we trust in you to work it all out, in Jesus name, amen!

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr. Beef, let me make sure of what you are saying. You are saying that animal sacrifices for sin have been done away. Is that right?

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr.Beef, one more question, I am just trying to get this straight. You do not have to tell me why you believe what I am asking you yet, we can get to that later.

          Do you believe that the Lord rose on the Sabbath or the day after the Sabbath?

          Is the Sabbath from sunset to sunset?

          Talk to y’all tomorrow.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “Mr. Beef, let me make sure of what you are saying. You are saying that animal sacrifices for sin have been done away. Is that right?”

          It is possible, according to my reading of Paul’s words, that Messiah’s Sacrifice covered Himself only. It is NOT my opinion that this is the case, however. Based on my reading of Paul, my belief is that Messiah’s Sacrifice covered, once and for all, His entire Body (Assembly, Congregation, Church if you must – though the word ‘church’ is an abhorrent word and shouldn’t be applied to Messiah’s Body), and that there is no longer any need for SIN sacrifice if we are covered by Messiah’s Blood.

          (If you and I were playing chess right now, I would be nervous. Whachoo got?)

        • BEEF SUPREME

          While I wasn’t looking, Mike added:

          “Do you believe that the Lord rose on the Sabbath or the day after the Sabbath?”

          I am of the opinion that Messiah was resurrected on the night AFTER the Sabbath – so on the NIGHT of the Seventh Day. Please bear in mind that my reading of Scripture teaches me that night FOLLOWS the day. Scripture shows that day and night have no part in each other, and that there are only and always 12 hours in a Day. There are four watches in the night – and this is important.

          In Scripture, a DAY is sunrise to sunset. The morning is not part of the day. The evening and the morning are the periods of mixing which separate the day from the night. Therefore, according to the opening verses of Genesis, as read in Hebrew: Work is done in the day. Then comes the evening. Then comes the night (when no man can work). Then comes the morning. So…

          Day begins. Work begins. Work ends. Day ends. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning… The First Day.

          So no, to answer your next question:

          “Is the Sabbath from sunset to sunset?”

          The Sabbath is observed from sunRISE to sunset. And that is all. This can be verified by the coming of the quails into the Israelite camp in the Book of Exodus. Since no work was to be performed on the Sabbath Day, and the prohibition against work expressly includes food preparation, then the Hebrews must not have been in violation of the prohibition when they killed, cleaned and prepared the quails which came into the camp that evening – quails which, it is specified, were SENT by YHWH. YHWH would not have led the Israelites into Sabbath desecration. Come the evening, the Sabbath has ended. The following day will not begin until the Sun has risen completely above the horizon, and no portion of its light is obscured. Then morning has ended and the new day has begun.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr.Beef How does fit into your day/night scheme:

          Exod.12: 31- And he called for Moses and Aaron BY NIGHT , and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said
          41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, EVEN THE SELFSAME DAY it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
          42 IT IS A NIGHT to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.

        • Mike Clinton


          Do you think the Torah regulations about foods and slaves are still in effect?

        • BEEF SUPREME

          DAY OF THE 14th = preparation for the Passover. Lambs killed. Eaten at even and into the night. Then THAT night, which is the NIGHT of the 14th…

          “Exod.12: 31- And he called for Moses and Aaron BY NIGHT , and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said”

          But of course, there is a PERIOD on the end of that sentence in the Bible. And the passage paragraph concludes in verse 39.

          Then a new sentence and a new passage paragraph begins in verse 40

          So… on what DAY did it come to pass that the 430 years of sojourning in Egypt ended?

          “41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, EVEN THE SELFSAME DAY it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.”

          ON THE SAME DAY that the Israelites came out of Egypt, which was the 15th DAY of the First Month, the First Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, it came to pass that the 430 years had ended.

          What had happened on the night of the 14th was momentous. It is called, and it IS, a night to be much observed unto YHWH…

          “42 IT IS A NIGHT” “IT” here cannot be talking about the DAY from verse 41 for the simple reason that DAY and NIGHT are not the same, and are ALWAYS separate in Scripture. The remainder of verse 42 tells us what “IT” is. “IT” is the NIGHT on which the children of Israel were gathered and compelled into movement, en masse.

          “42 IT IS A NIGHT to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.”

          The NIGHT TO BE MUCH OBSERVED is the night of the 14th day of the First Month.

          The DAY the Israelites came out of Egypt was the 15th day of the First Month.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          He did it again. While I wasn’t looking, Mike asked:

          “Do you think the Torah regulations about foods and slaves are still in effect?”

          Let me say you some trouble Mike. ALL of the statutes and ordinances of the Torah are still in effect.

          Let me save you some more trouble Mike, and anticipate your next question:

          “Mr. Beef, do YOU observe all of the dietary restrictions found written in the Torah?”

          Yes Mike. I do. I observe (pursue would be a better word – I do my BEST to observe) the dietary instructions found written in the five Books of Moses. I do not concern myself with the dietary rules of the Jews and the rabbis. Torah only.

          “Mr. Beef, do YOU observe all of the statutes and ordinances which apply to Sabbath keeping?”

          Yes Mike. To the best of my abilities, I try to observe ALL of the statutes and ordinances pursuant to Sabbath keeping. No work, no buy, no sell, no travel, no food prep, etc. etc. And you will recall that I believe Sabbath observance is from sunrise to sunset, so all of this talk of not using lights in the house and heat, etc, don’t concern me. When it’s cold, I absolutely use heat. I believe the injunction to kindle no flame applies only to ‘work’ fires, which were used extensively in pre-electric times. If I’m wrong about the heat, then I guess I’ll have some ‘splaining to do later on. I don’t think I’m wrong.

        • Mike Clinton

          Mr.Beef, I had no plans to ask you that question, I am just trying to organize what you believe in a way that I can remember it for the future.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          See? That’s what I get for anticipating.

          Amish turkey bacon around these parts sure is good. You had to at least been wondering about that much, no?

          And king crab legs might be out, but ribeye is still on the table.

          Melt some butter on that please.

          Pass the salt.

        • Mike Clinton

          No, not really Beef. I had no reason to question it. I am the kind of person who is patient about Bible considerations.

          I answer hundreds of comments on my posts. I consider them all. I am up until 3AM some mornings after I post. I go to the shop for a few hours in the day and come back and answer again.

          You and am123 are the most challenging.

    • Mike Clinton

      am123, how did the people who were there understand it? It is very clear that they understood the resurrection to be on Sunday and the crucifixion on Friday.
      W. E. Vine ” For the first three centuries of the Christian era the first day of the week was never confounded with the “Sabbath;” the confusion of the Jewish and Christian institutions was due to declension from apostolic teaching.
      The testimony from the early church is so indisputable that they would have to say that they were all wrong. It may come to that, it did on Skiba’s page.

      • am123

        “am123, how did the people who were there understand it?”

        Because they knew it was the third day after the crucifixion:

        19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

        20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

        21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

        —Luke 24:19-21

    • Mike Clinton

      Daniel said that the siege of Jerusalem occurred in the third year of Jehoiakim but Jeremiah says it occurred in the fourth year. Why? They were using different calendars.


        “They were using different calendars.”

        Get some.

        The Babylonian calendar is the one with month names. YHWH’s Calendar does not have named months. Even the first of the months in Exodus He calls the month OF THE aviv — not the month Aviv. This is the month of the year when the barley becomes ripe in the head. The Karaites and the rabbis send witnesses to look for ripe barley as a SIGN — and not as a confirmation. First comes the Head (Rosh) of the Year, then comes the confirming witness. The Karaites and the rabbis look to the phases of the Moon to determine their months. The Moon is not used for determining months, as Genesis 1:14 should make clear. Month’s in YHWH’s Calendar have always been comprised of 30 days each. Only. Ever. The Moon is for ‘signs’ (otot) and for seasons (moedim) and for days (yommim) and for years (shanaim). The Moon is not for months.

        The Law and the Teaching comes forth from Jerusalem. So do the days and years. Did anyone live in Antarctica at the time the Calendar was re-gifted to the Israelites? I highly doubt it. And today? They can use a computer. That is they could, if they were even aware that they should be looking for a Calendar they didn’t already have. By the time this REALLY becomes relevant again, there will be a Second Exodus under way, and any believers in Antarctica will be Oscar Mike.

        Can someone look me in the face and honestly tell me they believe that YHWH’s Calendar would ever, ever, have months named after Pagan Deities? Tammuz? Nissanu?

        Ninja, please.


      What we have here is, at its most basic level, an argument about cardinal and ordinal numbers. As you can see from the literal interlinear verse from Titus I posted, but much more conclusively from the article I quoted from, the Greek word MIA can never rightly be translated as the ordinal form of the number ‘one’ (meaning ‘first), because it is plainly erroneous to do so.

      The entire problem rests on this point.

      The proper understanding and translation of this single Greek word is the fulcrum upon which our understanding of a FOUNDATIONAL aspect of our faith rests. Everything related to the timing of Messiah’s Resurrection pivots from this one point. Also, our understanding of the actions of the Apostles AFTER Messiah’s Resurrection is extremely dependent upon our understanding of the phrase MIA TON SABBATON.

      All of us seem to be in agreement on one point, which is that we who seek after the Way of Messiah should presently be doing as the Apostles did after Messiah’s ministry in the Land of Israel. But this is something we will not be able to effectively do, if we have failed to rightly understand this phrase, and to remove the illegitimate meaning we have inherited from the scribes, from the legitimate and intended meaning of the written Word.

      • Truthseeker


        I just have a moment to step in to this one.

        The Sabbath came into being by the 7th Act of Creation, God Almighty made it Holy, spiritual clean. Even before the First Covenant was “signed” God tested the children by the Sabbath
        Christ kept the Sabbath, the Apostles kept the Sabbath, Paul taught on the Sabbath.

        God Changes not,

        the prophets say in the 1000 year reign here on earth, the Sabbath, the Law and the Holy Feasts of God will be in force. And just for the 2000 years in between the death of Christ and His return He changed it to sunday, the day the sun is worshiped??? Really?? And God changes not??? For a change this drastic, I need much more then vague twisted references from the King James VERSION.

        • BEEF SUPREME


          It sounds like you think you’re disagreeing with me. You’re not. I’m on board with everything you just said, especially this:

          “For a change this drastic, I need much more then vague twisted references from the King James VERSION.”

          All, not some, of the verses in the English New Testament translations which touch on the concept of the first day of the week are mangled and very, very poorly translated. This alone should be an alarming piece of evidence which truth-seeking Sunday advocates hasten to explore. Nowhere in language are cardinal numbers interchangeable with ordinal numbers, or vice versa. It would cause far too much unnecessary confusion if they were, and avoiding this confusion is a simple enough operation.

          If and when a huge change in the “unchanging” structure of YHWH’s system were to be institutionalized, any documentation supporting the change would, of necessity, need to be virtually impervious to misinterpretation. And there should be no controversy, or next to none, surrounding the change in YHWH’s Orders.

          Frankly, I am dumbstruck that this maxim is not universally agreed upon. Especially when so many warnings are given to us to never rely on the work or the teachings of men. And the scribes and the translators are most certainly that. They are men. As such, their motives and agendas should be immediately suspect. Always. Prudence demands as much from the diligent seeker after the Way.

          He who places his trust in any man or group of men, will be met with the same results plainly described for us on numerous occasions in Scripture. Our faith belongs to the Most High. It does not belong to the lying scribes or the agenda-driven translators.

        • Truthseeker

          Beef, sorry

          I was in a big hurry and it did sound like I was disagreeing with you and I know I am not.

          Mike’s big problem is he does not know the difference between the “Works of the Law” and the Laws of God. He accused me at one point of not keeping the Sabbath as per the Law but he was talking about the rules created by the Jews. The Sabbath is a blessing and a pleasure not a restrictive straight jacket.

          The works were ADDED because of sin.

          These are the Works of the Law:

          Jeremiah 7: 22, 23

          22 “For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:”

          23 “But this thing commanded I them saying “Obey My voice, and I will be you God and ye shall be My people and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you that it may be well unto you.”

          Christ freed us from the ritualistic part of the Law that pointed to Christ; the works were added to keep in front of the children of Israel eyes as a continual reminder of their sins. Without this reminder that cost money and took time and much effort the Law would have vanished from among the children of Israel in a very short time, which it did any way.

          Sacrificial Law;
          Leviticus gives a list of Offerings by category and how each is done.

          Burnt sacrifice of the herd
          Meal offering or Oblation
          Peace offering
          Sin offering
          Trespass offering

          Ceremonial washings given to the priesthood

          Circumcision: A physical procedure Christ came to change to a Spiritual one

          These are the works of the Law, which were all fulfilled by Christ and are no longer in force.
          The 10 Commandments, the Judgements, Statures, Precepts, Sabbatical Law and the Food Law is still in force.

          There is not one scripture that can be pointed to showing the 4th Commandment has been changed, even the Catholics agree,

          James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

          “But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.”

          Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

          “Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

          “Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”

    • creoignus

      Sunday isn’t Satan’s day. It’s pagan, see Satan comes from the Yiddish Shiatan, meaning to accuse, or adversary. Pagans are not Christians adversaries, we never have been. Pagans have always only wanted to be left alone. That lack of adversity against the church is the very thing that has kept us around. See as Christianity (and I’m not attacking so don’t jump the gun) tried to wipe us, the practitioners of the Old ways out, we simply didn’t fight, but adapted to the emerging Christian culture. We moved into secrecy, because other wise we would be put to death simply for believing different from what the church wanted. Yes there were those of us who tried to fight it, most of them and their families were put to death for it. The rest of us adopted secrecy as a way of life. The Church over time created horrible rumors like human sacrifice, human sacrifice has never been a part of our traditions, in fact if it was we wouldn’t deny it. Sacrifice is required to be done in public, so others can see it. If a sacrifice is done unwillingly, or with shame it has no meaning. Sunday yes was named for the sun, the Catholic Church changed many thing to match the culture they had moved into, All saints day took the place of Samhain, Christmas took the place of yule, Easter/Passover took the ostara sabbat or the spring equinox. The reason for this was so that the local peoples would be able to more easily adapt to the Emergent Christian religions. Sunday was named by pagans as the day of the sun, we have no belief in Satan, Satan is not one of our peoples creations, satan is a wholly helenistic/christian/jewish/muslim spirit. We have no devil, or belief in him. Stop trying to claim our things for your religion, Sunday existed long before your religion. To think other wise is pure willful ignorance. I mean think about it, satan makes no sense anyways. According to your own Myths he was a being created to serve, while humans were beings created to rule creation. Stop giving the fallen idiot sissy peon the power that your god reserved for you. Its a lie and you only make yourselves this satan character’s victims.

    • KnowMoreThanYou

      Man this is great, you guys having a Nerdy religious debate amongst yourselves… :lol: :lol:
      Love it… :lol:

      • Truthseeker

        Knowmore that you

        I know a “Nerdy” fellow that could take a very strong part in this religious debate.

        He breaks baseball bats with his shin, he is a 6 degree black belt and a national champion.
        For some time he has been an instructor in KRAV MAGA, look that up on the net.
        This is Israel’s form of martial arts minus the word artl There are no rules!

        Knowing and obeying God does not equate to weakness in body or mind, did you every ask yourself why at the last supper two of the Apostles were carrying swords? I believe those are still called weapons.

    • Minobsmasivfski

      Well thank,s for the enlightenment there felas.
      Still no wiser as which day though sat or sun.
      It has recently dawned on me that if this is a holographic universe then the reason for us to do the inactivity is to slow movement and vibration so as to tune and be at one with god , holografically
      So I try and do some quality time inactive on both days just to give me a decent chance of blending with the spirit of the father as if a part of a limitless hologram.
      He did say search and you will find me , so this is another search method.
      Am not a new ager by the way ,but I do see how made in his image could be seen holographically ey.

    • Pix

      “For 2,000 years a struggle has been going on in the Church.”

      Actually 1’600 years at the earliest. The ‘Church’ didn’t exist until after the council of Nicea 325 CE. Where they began the study into what to include in the Bible of the millions of texts, stories and gospels that existed at that time, mostly from Greece. The first Bible was commissioned by the worst insane despot of all time, Roman emperor Constantine. A rabidly devout follower of Mithras. Which is exactly why the NT is pretty much word for word Mithraism and why there is very little to distinguish between Christian ritual and Mithraic ritual. They are one and the same.

      The Jesus story is not unique or original to the Bible.

    • Truthseeker


      I have not bothered you for some time, I know your mind is locked in place but I just can’t let an opportunity to eject logic into the Sabbath question go by, it is not a question for me but is for you and the majority of nominal Christianity.

      Mark 2: 27

      27 “And He said unto them, The Sabbath IS made for man and not man for the Sabbath, “

      Christ did not say the Sabbath was made for the Jews or just for Israel but for man that is every person that has or will ever live! Every single word from the mouth of God is on purpose, not one single word is a mistake. The Sabbath is not a hardship but has been made so by man not God.

      Exodus 20: 8 – 11
      8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”

      Remember!!! We are told to “remember” the Sabbath! It has existed since the seventh day of creation week. God is commanding mankind to look back to who is Creator.
      The Sabbath is the Creators signature on His work. One purpose of the Sabbath is to allow man to come out of this world of confusion and sin one day out of seven, to stop and contemplate the purpose of creation and learn how to live God’s Way. Man has refused to do so since the beginning, just like a little child man wants his way, God tells man to eat his carrots they are good for him and man reply’s, no and you can’t make me!

      9 “Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work”:

      This does not say IF you want to, God say you shall labour! God expect action, hard work, from man for six days – then he must rest.

      10 “But the Seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
      maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

      This is abundantly clear – everyone, including your animals, must keep the Sabbath.

      11 “For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

      So now He will remove it from being Holy? And use a pagan day in its place? Is that not changing His mind?

      Isaiah 66: 22, 23

      22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

      23 “And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon (month) to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me,saith the LORD.

      So! After God has shown how important the Sabbath is to Him in Isaiah He then changes it??? God the Father and Jesus Christ change not! For as long as physical humans exist they will assemble to worship on the Sabbath and as Isaiah makes plain during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ on earth, the Sabbath will be kept.

      Mike as far as gentiles keeping the Sabbath, show one place where a Covenant has ever been made with gentiles? The Old and the New are only with the children of Israel and the house of Israel and the House of Judah — The gentiles were never included and never will be. A gentile can only gain salvation by being adopted into Israel. God is the GOD of Israel only.

      It was never incumbent upon gentiles to keep the Sabbath or the Law, they were under no contracts with God ever. Once they become Israelites they must obey.

      As far as the Sabbath being kept before Moses read about Abraham; Genesis 26: 5 Because that Abraham obeyed My voice and KEPT My charge, My Commandments, My statutes and My Laws.

      You think God has two sets of Laws? The Sabbath was the day after the creation of man and is the 4th commandment, Abraham kept it.

      And Abraham kept the Feasts of God, what do you think the sacrifice of Isaac was to be but the Passover?

      I can not at all prove this but just consider: in Genesis 19: 3 Lot made a Feast with unleavened bread for the angels and was delivered from a city of sin which God destroyed.
      Does this sound like Moses, the Passover and the Exodus?

      God does not changes, His way are set in Stone.

      I am confident you will find a way to reason this into foolishness.

      • Mike Clinton

        Truthseeker. There are many, many instances of the generic term “man” being applied to the Jews.

        Didn’t Abraham marry his sister? Didn’t Amram marry his aunt? Do you think God has two sets of laws about incest?

        • Truthseeker


          I know He does not, but nor do I think God will cast you or anyone into the lake of fire for not keeping the Sabbath until they have been shown the truth and have had an opportunity to willfully accept or willfully reject it.

          For 6000 years God has let man live in sin, in the days of Noah it got beyond the point of repentance and He put them all to death, Sodom and Gomorrah the same, soon 90% of mankind will be put to death because sin is again beyond the point of repentance.

          At the 2nd resurrection all that have not had the opportunity will be given the opportunity to accept or reject God’s WAY.

    • 7


    • 3AM

      @ MIKE…please get back to me on these…

      oh,…and by the way… THE POPE CALLS HIMSELF LORD (He takes all the titles of Christ for himself) THIS IS WHY THE REFORMERS CALLED HIM THE ANTI-CHRIST……..”anti” does not necessarily have to mean against – it can also mean in the place of… and this is why JOHN ALSO REFERS TO THE ANTI-CHRIST AS THE SON OF PERDITION…a title only used twice in the Bible… JUDAS ESCARIOT IS CALLED THIS ALSO and who was he?.. JESUS’ FRIEND, APOSTLE AND BETRAYER BY MEANS OF A KISS. Kind of like what the catholic church is doing to Jesus wouldn’t you say?..

      And he shall speak great words against the most High, …and think to change times and laws:” Daniel 7:25

      “The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.” Canon and Tradition, p. 263

      “The Catholic church,” declared Cardinal Gibbons, “by virtue of her divine mission changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.” Catholic Mirror Sept. 23 1983. (Official organ of Cardinal Gibbons)

      THIS IS FOUND IN CATHOLIC CATECHISM – (Check your’s out Mike)
      Question – Which is the Sabbath day?
      Answer – Saturday is the Sabbath day.
      Question – Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
      Answer – We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

      “The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!” Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, History of the Sabbath, p. 802 THEY ARE VERY ARROGANT ABOUT THIS CHANGE, aren’t they?

      “Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. “The day of the Lord” was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power …. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become Seventh-day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” (Saint Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.)

      “Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles …. From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” (Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August, 1990.)

      BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD FOR YOU MIKE, but before you do that, check these pictures out… THE TRUTH IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE… I find it strange that these civil leaders and royalty come to this imposter… WHAT FOR?…



    • Truthseeker


      I do believe you have painted yourself into the proverbial corner. Truth is Truth! From this point on Mike you have nothing to stand upon. The Sabbath remains as the day created by Jesus Christ, it is the true and only LORD’s Day. sunday is appointed by the pagan catholics

      Men have been trying since the beginning to cast aside the Laws of God, you will not be successful either. Jesus Christ will judge you by them.

    • worldslastchance

      there is NO Sunday or Saturday in the bible!!!

      there were two calendars in effect when our Saviour walked this earth: the Luni-solar calendar our Creators own calendar implemented at creation and the Julian calendar…

      you can only find the true Sabbath and holy(holi)days by this calendation!

      trust the bible.. not the pulpit puppets…not any man and his traditions! next this guy will tell us the secret rapture is in the bible too…
      to find out more truths and what the Mark of the Beast is go to:

    • Greenfire

      I have the answer!
      Keep from sunset on Thursday through mid-day on Monday and then everyone has a 50/50 chance of being right! Also should serve to piss-off everyone which is always allot of fun :lol:

      or in the alternative –

      Just try to be Christ-like all of the time, as in every minute of every day.

      • Mike Clinton

        Greenfire, that’s a good answer. :grin: :grin: :grin:

        • 3AM

          THE IMAGE YOU USED OF JOHN THE JUST ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? WHAT IS ITS SIGNIFICANCE ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????, or did you do so by chance????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? PLEASE TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS ART PIECE………………………………………………………….IT’S PROBABLY JUST A COINCIDENCE, BUT DO GIVE ME YOUR INSIGITHS ON THE PYRAMID OF GIZZA…………………………….

        • 3AM

          ,,, MEANT IT TO BE “insights”…

          Are you actually as interesting as you seam?

        • am123

          “Are you actually as interesting as you seam?”

          Well, he does look a little like the guy in the beer commercial…..the most interesting person in the world :lol:

        • am123

          STAY THIRSTY my friends…for a little while that is. Go ahead and stew in your thirst stay thirsty my friends, but then in but a little while at no cost to you, quench all that thirst finally and fully and come and drink deeply and drink widely and quencheth thy thirst with the SPRING of the WATER of LIFE :!: :!: :!:

          Yes come one come all, cease from your strife and come and drink freely and drink deeply from the SPRING of the WATER of LIFE and LIVE FOREVER AND EVER AND THIRST NO MORE, I kid you not:

          “But whosoever drinketh of the WATER that I shall give him shall NEVER THIRST; but the WATER that I shall give him shall be IN HIM a WELL OF WATER springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE.”

          — JOHN 4:14

          “And he said unto me, It is done. I am ALPHA and OMEGA, the BEGINNING and the END. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the WATER OF LIFE freely.”

          —REV 21:6

          “And the Spirit and the bride say, COME. And let him that heareth say, COME. And let him that is athirst COME. And whosoever will, let him take the WATER OF LIFE freely.”

          —REV 22:17

          STAY THIRSTY NO MORE my friends partake of the LIVING WATER OF JESUS CHRIST and LIVE FOREVER :!: :!: :!: :lol: :lol: :lol:

          HALLELUJAH FOREVER AND EVER AMEN :!: :!: :!: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    • Anonymous

      The path of the righteous man is beset on both sides by the selfish and the tyranny of evil men!

    • Bluem00n262

      Well said, good article.

    • JonT

      This all BS. The Epistles weren’t even written until an entire generation after Jesus died. And you may as well call Christ ‘Mithras’, a 10,000 year old pagan Persian religion whose Mithra was the perfect virgin birth, died for the sins of mankind, and awoke on the 3rd day.

      1. Get a life.
      2. Get a brain.
      3. Get over it.


        “… a 10,000 year old pagan Persian religion whose Mithra was the perfect virgin birth, died for the sins of mankind, and awoke on the 3rd day.”

        1. Get a shred of valid evidence that there is documented truth to your claim, older than the Gospels themselves.

        2. Produce that evidence here, for all to examine.

        3. Get paid $10,000.00 USD in fiat or in gold. By me, personally.

        Put it up or pack it in, Scrappy.
        Or better yet… stick around and prepare to learn something useful.

    • Mayhem

      Considerable discourse on this subject and I appreciate all the effort.


      mia G1520 ton G3588 sabbaton G4521

      sure looks a lot like ‘first the seventh day of the week’

      … my head hurts.

      ps personally i choose Saturday but i have the sneaking suspicion that it’s only to get up my employers nose.


        Mayhem –

        You have to stray from the Strong’s on this one, and seek confirmation of proper Greek usage from other, official and reputable, sources.

        This is one of the few instances where Jimmy lets us down and adopts the mainline mentality.

        MIA can’t be ordinal. It’s cardinal only.

        (See how we’re still flying the same banner of cash or gold in the faces of the bearers of false witness? Same charge. Same bounty. No takers after all these years.)

        Good speed.

        • Mayhem

          Yes, BEEF, i do see how it goes and i trust that many do. More on that shortly…

          It turns out i had absolutely no idea the difference between an ordinal and a cardinal number: and yet it remains uncertain as to The Sabbath.

          I do not like the confusion and i read all of this with much interest and a yearning for a definitive answer. That’s not to be as it turns out.

          …and to continue my earlier point:

          It’s easy enough, with practise, to see who uses Scripture to interpret Scripture; just as it is easy to spot the doctrine of men when it is presented as evidence.

          Your double gold eagle (?) remains safe as we’ve yet to see any evidence that trumps The Inspired Word of our Creator.

          Yashua, Messiah have mercy on me a sinner.

    • Truthseeker


      In one of my comments I asked a question I would love to hear you answer.

      I doubt any would or could deny the fact the 7th Day Sabbath was created and made Holy by God.

      If Christ changed the day of worship from the Holy Sabbath to the first day of the week called by the name of the sun god, did He then remove the Sabbath from being Holy and transferred that Holiness to Sunday?

      Or do we now have two Holy Days?

      For such a great change from One who says He changes not, are there any clear unmistakable scriptures in the Old Testament pointing to that Great Change?

      The firsts Six acts of Creation still stand, God has not changed them, so to change the 7th act of Creation I would expect at least a small mention some where.

      • Truthseeker


        I am waiting for an answer

        • Truthseeker


          You must have an easy answer to the above questions.

          The Sabbath was made Holy at it’s Creation so either God removed it from being Holy or He also made the first day of the week Holy, you know Sun-day.

          If The Lord’s day is now sunday it too must be Holy, show a scripture that states God made Holy the first day of the week.

          If there are now two days of the week that are Holy what are we to do??

          Mike this is very confusing and you are the expert.

    • Authentica

      /alternative/2013/10/pope-francis-ideological-christians-are-a-serious-illness-2801914.html ~
      Francis said that ideologies are “rigid.” “When a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought,” Francis said, according to Radio Vatican.

      Francis added: “The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people. But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new.”

      • 3AM

        “…according to Radio Vatican.”……………..RADIO DIVINING SERPENT in other words…

        Why is the papal crest a DRAGON/SNAKE?..

        …probably the same reason why the word “VATICAN” ACTUALLY MEANS DIVINING SERPENT

        EXPOSED: Title Of The Popes Of Rome = 666!

        The Donation of Constantine (AKA the Donatio) contains the official title of the Popes of Rome. Unfortunately for the Roman Church, this title is yet another identifying characteristic of the Antichrist of Bible prophecy, since this title, Vicarius Filii Dei, equals the dreaded 666.

        Catholics today are quick to say that Protestants are dishonest (or worse) for using the Donatio/Vicarius Filii Dei against them in this way since it was determined beyond question to be a total forgery. What most Catholics either don’t know or will not tell you is that the Roman Catholic Church & Popes used this BOGUS title of Vicarius Filii Dei contained in the Donatio for 1,000 (One Thousand!) years to “prove” their “primacy”.

        Now any thinking individual will ask: “If the Pope is supposed to be ‘infallible’ in the subjects of faith and morals, and if the Roman Church has ‘never erred’ as they boast about, then why, pray tell, did the ‘infallible’ Papacy/Roman Church use this FAKE title & FORGED document to prove their ‘authority’ for 1,000 years!?”

        It’s a LEGITIMATE question, but it’s a question that is too uncomfortable for most Roman Catholics to deal with. So they deny it or they sweep in under the Pope’s door mat and ignore it for fear of what the consequences might be concerning the supposed infallibility of the Popes & Roman Church.

        The Roman Church/Popes gained an incredible amount of wealth & power by using this FORGED document to their benefit to bilk & rape poor gullible people out of their money & property. Now Catholics try to distance themselves from it and hide it by claiming Protestants ‘manufactured’ or ‘fabricated’ this title. You would be suprised how many Catholics will say this in total IGNORANCE of the fact that the title Vicarius Filii Dei contained in the forged Donatio were both included in the Roman Catholic Canon Law for literally ages.

        So to be honest with themselves and the Christian world, Roman Catholics must answer the following questions:

        1. If the title Vicarius Filii Dei is NOT an official title of the Pope of Rome, then why is it in the OFFICIAL writings of a POPE on the OFFICIAL website of the Roman Church here at

        2. Why was this ‘bogus’ title of Vicarius Filii Dei & bogus ‘Donatio’ included in the Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church for centuries?

        3. Why did the Roman Church/Popes, who are supposed to be ‘infallible’ in the subject of ‘faith & morals’ use a KNOWN forgery (yes they used it for 200 MORE years AFTER it was determined to be a forgery!) to prove their primacy? Were they IGNORANT? Or were they LYING? Were they EMBARRASSED? Were they ASHAMED?

        4. Why did the Roman Catholic Church try to KILL Lorenzo Valla, who exposed the ‘Donatio’ as forgery, by attempting to burn him at the stake for heresy?

        5. Since tremendous wealth was gained by the Roman Catholic Church/Popes over the 10 CENTURIES the Donation was used by them, will they be honest and give back the money and property which they took under FALSE pretense? How about giving it all to feed starving people?

        Watch the video below on this subject for further information. I plan on updating this video to reflect more recent information uncovered on this subject

        • 3AM

          @ Mike…

          …just one more thing. The pictures you picked for this article… THE ONE OF APOSTLE PAUL FOR INSTANCE,.. now, I know that you did not paint it, but this is how FREEMASONS like their pictures (paintings) to be taken.(pose) The feet at a right angle (set square) and one tucked in on the inside of the other and almost always with a book or a scroll in the hand or looking over their glasses…
          …and what’s with the unusual finger positions and halo’s on the typically catholic pictures?..

          PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY?.. AND WHAT DO THEY MEAN???????????????????????????????

          Proverbs 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
          13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
          14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.
          15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
          16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
          17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
          18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
          19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

      • Authentica

        “Adhere to the Teachings and then men and women THROUGH ENLIGHTENMENT [direct experience rather than 'believing'] will be saved from their ignorant use of their mighty thought power, even as I taught when in Palestine and which has been overlaid by the humanly contrived dogma of Christian churches.”

        Did Christ not promise we would do greater works than him? If people are unwilling to open to The Father within their own Beings (& not immediately scream ‘demon, satan, hell’ when someone comes forward with their experiences), how are people to awaken their own Divine Consciousness?

        Human reasoning has evolved a lot in 2,000 years, but what is holding spiritual evolution back is people arguing about trivialities instead of tuning into their Heart Truth. Do you not recognise how Jesus was rejected by the people 2,000 years ago because he didn’t fulfill their scriptural prophecies in the way THEY IMAGINED. Therefore in their ignorance they killed him.

        What if The Father & Christ is now sending new inspirations through currently living people? What if many people were more in love with (& blinded by) their contrived dogmas, misconceptions & cherished traditions that the True Spirit of The Father in All Life is unable to reach many ‘Christians’ because they are so wrapped up in who is right & who is wrong, arguing interpretations of ‘rules’ & evidently using the EGO MIND to interpret the meaning of life based on a book that has been written by man’s perspective of their experiences millenea ago. You must be as a young child in faith to truly receive knowledge of God, Life & The Way. I AM ~

        Does God care more about on what day you rest & contemplate His Reality? Or does God care about your True Humility, Dedication to Loving Service, Acceptance of All People, etc???

        It’s funny. Anyone today who says they have received a message from God or Spirit, is immediately accused of ‘evil doing’ or deception by fundamentalist Christians, yet how do you think Jesus received his teachings in the desert? How did he discover the Kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU??? The ignorant closed-hearted indoctrinated people of his time accused The Christ of also being sent by Satan to deceive the ‘true followers’ who knew the ‘true way’… We Learn OR History REAPeats…. This is a Fact of Existence. God is both Creation & Evolution. WE are an intrinsic active part of that Creation. Nobody can judge another’s Truth of Insight except God Himself & They Shall Be Known By The Fruits Of Their Labours!

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Authentica wrote:

          “…how are people to awaken their own Divine Consciousness?”

          Who told you you have such a thing as a ‘Divine Consciousness”? I know who told you. That’s the siren song of Dark Prince himself.

          “…spiritual evolution…”

          And THAT is his Clarion Call. Whose voice do you think you’re hearing? You are not hearing the voice of the Good Shepherd.

          “What if The Father & Christ is now sending new inspirations through currently living people?”

          HE has already told us He wouldn’t be doing that. Read Scripture.

          “…because they are so wrapped up in who is right & who is wrong, arguing interpretations of ‘rules’ & evidently using the EGO MIND to interpret the meaning of life based on a book that has been written by man’s perspective…”

          You are confusing and conflating pointless arguments and vain wrangling for authentic Bible Study. Almost ALL of what you see posted above on this page relates to honest and sincere exploration of the written Word. Practiced familiarity with the written Word will go a very long way to eliminating the New Age doctrine and principles of which you yourself are an advocate.

          “Does God care more about on what day you rest & contemplate His Reality? Or does God care about your True Humility, Dedication to Loving Service, Acceptance of All People, etc???”

          He cares about BOTH. Guess how we can know that? Because He told us so in His written Word. Following His orders according to His Instructions is an important part of becoming a member of His Family.

          “Nobody can judge another’s Truth of Insight except God Himself & They Shall Be Known By The Fruits Of Their Labours!”

          While that may be true, we are also implored to PROVE EVERYTHING. You sound as if you would like to see all discernment, all testing and all proving silenced. You will not ever see that happen. Make a distinction in your own mind between prudence and hard-hearted dogma. And make a distinction between Messiah’s statement that the “Kingdom of God is within you” and the nebulous Satanic principle of a ‘Divine Spark’ within humanity. The difference between the two cannot be adequately described by the language of men.

        • 3AM

          “God is both Creation & Evolution.”

          No,.. God is the Creator (in 7 literal days) and the God of the Sabbath and the day (incidental) is the sign for posterity thereof…


          …and didn’t John Paul 2 say that the book of Genesis is nonsense a while back?…

          THERE’S SOME REASON FOR YOU…………….. or is the Bible not the Truth??? DIDN’T JESUS SAY THAT HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE AND THAT NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH HIM?.. Where does MARY come into the equation??????

          AS A MAN OF GOD, shouldn’t the POPE (leader of the anti-Christ system) be advocating GOD’S LAW instead of natural law?… which is determined by HIS (the pope’s) reason… IT’S ALL ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE AND REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, ISN’T IT.

          This is taking from those who have and giving to the have not’s… THE BIBLE CALLS THIS THEFT AND GOD’S 8TH COMMANDMENT SAYS YOU SHALL NOT… but in the catholic church it is the 7th commandment, because “SHE” changed GOD’S LAW by taking away the second so THEY CAN BOW DOWN IN FRONT OF MARY!!! To have 10 again they took the 10th COMMANDMENT OF GOD, split it in two and switched it around in true occult fashion…


          I PRESENT TO YOU… THE MAN OF SIN ONCE AGAIN, for those who might have missed it…

        • Authentica

          Your comment appears as if you are projecting your opinions, perceptions, judgements & ideas onto my Being… I never once said ‘abandon prudence’ (natural virtue) in fact my message was the EXACT OPPOSITE.

          “While that may be true, we are also implored to PROVE EVERYTHING. You sound as if you would like to see all discernment, all testing and all proving silenced.” ~ I don’t know how you came to that conclusion, I really don’t, but it is 100% false. In fact that would be the anti-thesis of a description of my intent & position.

          I felt the need to clear that up & thanks, I always enjoy speaking to people with different perspectives, as it helps one to grow & strengthen, even if you don’t agree, best regards ~

        • 3AM

          “Your comment appears as if you are projecting your opinions, perceptions, judgements & ideas onto my Being”

          NO,.. GOD ALONE IS THE JUDGE, but you really shouldn’t blaspheme LIKE THE POPE DOES………….

          REVELATION 6-9 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
          And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
          And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

          IF THE POPE IS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND THE BEAST HAS A MARK…and the pope says that SUNDAY IS THEIR MARK of authoruty,……….DOESN’T THAT MAKE SUNDAY THE MARK OF THE BEAST???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

          JOSHUA 24:14 & 15 Now therefore fear the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.


          SOLA SCRIPTURA!!!!!!!!!!!!! SOLA GRATIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • 3AM


          I know this is going to sound like a punt for a product, but bear with me for just a sec…

          In South Africa we have a chewing gum brand that is very cheap called CHAPPIES. DON’T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A CLUE OF WHAT I AM SPEAKING, but here we go:

          DID YOU KNOW (trivial facts on the inside of the wrapper)

        • 3AM

          … that the DAY Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses on the cHURCH door, is TODAY celebrated the world over (from what i understand,.. living in dark AFRICA) as HALLOWEEN,.. where little children dress up as… Well,.. you would probably know better than i do… and collect sweeties and stuff from their neighbours…


          Just to be clear… this wasn’t actually on an actual “Chappies” wrapper.., BUT FOOD FOR THOUGHT ISN’T IT?..

          GODBLESS!!! This world is as much your home as it was for Abraham…

        • Ghost

          3am has confirmed by decision to abandon the Xtian mythology decades ago.. They are still beating the same worn out drums that fall on deaf ears…

          Why do they sing ‘Only Believe’? — because they can’t prove one word they say…

          Don’t sling any Bible hash at me.. I’ve read it.. in 16 translations and 7 languages and they all say you’re full of it.

        • 3AM

          @ ghost


    • Ste Gre

      God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it for all of history from the seventh day to well into the new heavens and the new earth. The 4th commandment reads, “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. This is the only commandment that begins with “remember.” So, it is to remember something that was told in the past – on the seventh day of creation.

      Also, when you line up certain events that are proven by both the Jewish and Gregorian calendars one would find that the Jewish Sabbath on the Jewish calendar lines up with the Saturday on the Gregorian calendar. The Israelites were rewarded for obeying God and punished for disobeying God. If the Israelites were not obeying the 4th commandments they would not be rewarded ever.

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