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Which Version of the Book of Revelation is the Right One. The Answer Might Surprise You.

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There have been countless books and studies done on the Book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible which tells us about the Last Days.  Yet you would have a hard time finding two of them that tell it the same way.  Why is this?  Are not all these writers Christians and Bible Scholars?  How can they all tell a different story, and how is anyone to determine which version to believe?  Maybe this is why so many pastors don’t teach from the Book of Revelation in their churches.  Yet this is the most important book for us to understand today because we are on the verge of entering into the Tribulation.

 

I have come to believe that there are a few main reasons why we have so many different versions of the same book.  The first is because many of the writers don’t believe that the Bible is the absolute true word of God.  Oh yes, they say they do, but when they write their studies or books, it’s obvious they don’t.  I will show you what I mean.  In Chapter 1 of the Book of Revelation here’s what it says.  “This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John,  who faithfully reported everything he saw. This is his report of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.”  In this verse it is very clear that Jesus said that John faithfully reported everything he saw.   There are no errors, it is accurate, and Jesus confirms this to be true.   In the last Chapter he says something similar.  I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches….And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book.  And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.  Again Jesus confirms that the book is accurate and issues a stern warning.  Don’t Make Up Your Own Version!  It is totally accurate the way it is already written.  

 

This is what I mean when I say that some writers simply don’t believe that the Bible is the absolute true Word of God.  When it comes to Revelations, they keep trying to figure it out by saying that this represents that and that represents this.  And every writer does the same thing but the things that they represent are all different so you end up with many different explanations of the same thing.  If they would only accept it As It Is Written, they would not have this problem.

 

Another reason is because they don’t understand that the Book of Revelation is written in sequence.  There are 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials and other events happening in between these, but they are all opened in Sequence.  You cannot take something from the 3rd trumpet and put it after the 4th seal.  It doesn’t happen that way.  You can’t relate a current world event to Chapter 19.  That Chapter hasn’t happened yet.   When you take it as it is written, the story unfolds as it should. 

 

And then there is the biggest of all mistakes.  Some believe that the 1st horseman is the Antichrist.   They believe this because Jesus comes back on a white horse, so just because this guy is riding a white horse they say it must be the antichrist.  Some also believe that Daniel’s 70th week is somehow projected far into the future and that the Tribulation will start when the Antichrist signs a 7 year peace treaty with Israel, so the Antichrist must come first.   And because they make these errors the rest of their writings are way off track as well.  And they also believe that the Antichrist is a man, even though he is not described as a man at all in Chapter 13 which is where the Antichrist comes on the scene.  

 

These are the main errors, but you can see what happens when one does not believe Jesus who CONFIRMS that the book is accurate and WARNS US about making up our own versions.   To read a version that is based only on the literal acceptance of God’s Word, Click Here.



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    Total 93 comments
    • Jiliane

      Again, the Bible revelations were written for those people in those times.
      They were not facing dwindling resources, over population and outside
      Intervention from other races.
      There is a New Message from God. A New Revelation for our times, our
      problems. A great redemption through service and Knowledge.
      http://www.newmessage.org
      http://www.alliesforhumanity.org

      • ignis fatuus

        “Again, the Bible revelations were written for those people in those times.”

        Truth. The Bible revelations were also written for all people in THIS time, as aptly demonstrated by the fact that the authors of the Bible said so themselves, repeatedly.

        “They were not facing dwindling resources, over population and outside Intervention from other races.”

        This statement belies an absolute lack of familiarity with the contents of the Bible. It also betrays an utter lack of familiarity with history.

        “There is a New Message from God. A New Revelation for our times, our problems. A great redemption through service and Knowledge.”

        Wow. That sounds just like the message of Masonry and of all harbingers of the New Age. Do you know whose light you are bearing? Do you know whose doctrine you are spreading? Would you even care if you did know?

      • Prudence Wright

        so the end of the world to them was far away…..now it’s on our door step! So exactly how was it “written for those people” when they did not have the woes and troubles that were going to end the world?

        Not to mention, never once in the entire Bible did God say HE was going to destroy the Earth, just these things would happen when the Earth was going to be destroyed…. and since we ARE facing all the problems you mentioned above, it would make sense that we are fast approaching the day we kill ourselves off…….

      • Ephraim

        I am afraid that you are mistaken – there is no new message from God, there is no new Gospel. The Bible is the word of the Lord God and it tells it like it is. Sorry if you do not understand it, but again, not everyone does.

      • turtle

        … and to the snooping NSA zionists stooges… Bomb, Allah, Hijack… BAH!

    • Amminadab

      the REAL Truth about “The Revelation of John in the Bible” :
      http://truthbook.com/urantia/faq/the-revelation-of-john-in-the-bible

    • Amminadab

      John’s revelation recorded in the Bible is incomplete and confused, as indicated by this quote:

      When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form. (139:4.14)

      • HumanBeing

        Baloney.

      • ignis fatuus

        Great Balls of Fire.

        ‘Someone said it. Therefore, it must be true.’

        With fractured logic like that, it’s no wonder you call yourself what you do.

      • Mirabolin

        John’s revelation is intact and crystal clear. You, like Pix, just don’t know what you’re talking about. Pity that! >o)

    • HumanBeing

      If you look carefully at the 70 weeks prophecy, you’ll see that it was interrupted after th 69th week when Israel rejected their Messiah. Not everything in that prophecy is finished.

      http://fether.net/index.php?page=bible-prophecy-past-or-future/
      http://fether.net/index.php?page=2012/04/20/end-times-bible-prophecy-summary/
      http://bible.fether.net/index.php?book=27&pager=co

      As for interpretation, we can see everyday in this forum how hard it is to get two people to agree on something, no matter how plainly it may have been written. The problem is not always a lack of respect for the Bible, but often simply humans reaching different conclusions in all honesty.

      Agree on the other points, though. Some believe the Bible doesn’t apply to us today, but both Daniel and Revelation reach to the end of human history. Since Jesus gave the final prophecy to John, no new revelation is needed. The Bible contains everything we need no matter what the year, because “love your neighbor” is not bound by time.

      • Minobsmasivfski

        Another topic biblical, sorry, had a thought there with the d day so many souls murdered.
        I keep hearing a quote from the bible , do not harm mine not a hair on their head, or something like that’
        Well certainly did not apply to them poor buggers , what was going on their , or does the quote apply to something else .
        Can someone enlighten me please.

        • HumanBeing

          I’m not sure what you’re asking, but it looks like you just want to know where the quote comes from?

          It sounds like a combo of two different things: “touch not God’s anointed” and “your Father knows the number of hairs on your head”. Or, maybe you mean in Rev. where it says “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” If it’s that one, it only applies to a select group of believers during the Tribulation.

    • Anonymous

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/revelation/white.html
      The Book of Revelation was written sometime around 96 CE in Asia Minor. The author was probably a Christian from Ephesus known as “John the Elder.” According to the Book, this John was on the island of Patmos, not far from the coast of Asia Minor, “because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus” (Rev. 1.10). This has traditionally been taken to mean that he had been exiled there as a martyr for his Christian faith. Some scholars, however, have suggested that it might have been a regular stop on a preaching circuit. Next, the author says, “I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet” (Rev. 1.11), and this voice tells him to write what he is about to see. This begins the “revelatory” vision that is at the center of the book.

      Ephesus was both the capital of the Roman province of Asia and one of the earliest centers of Christianity. The book next contains seven short letters of exhortation to the Christian churches in the seven leading cities of Asia Minor — Ephesus (2.1-7, Smyrna (2.9-11), Pergamon (2.12-17) , Thyatira (2.18-29). Sardis (3.1-6), Philadelphia (3.7-13). and Laodicea (3.14-22). This region would become a key area for the expansion of Christianity into the Roman empire. But it was precisely this intersection that created the problem for the author, as it called for Christians to treat the Roman administration as agent of the devil. But recognizing this comes from understanding how to read this kind of apocalyptic literature.

      How to read Revelation

      Because of intricate and unusual symbolic language, the Book of Revelation is hard for modern people to read. They are not used to this kind of literature. Not so for people in the ancient world who would have been more accustomed to the complex nature of apocalyptic literature. The very fact that an apocalypse was a common type of literature meant that if followed certain conventions of style, and people knew more what to expect from it. Because there were many other examples of apocalyptic writing, these conventions would have seemed less strange and cryptic. Also, apocalyptic literature was almost always a kind of literature for “insiders,” that is to say, it was written for people who already knew something of the situation and of the symbols that were used to portray it. So, for the original audience of the Revelation of John, all these strange scenes would have been immediately intelligible. What the modern reader or biblical scholar has to do is to try to read the text with “ancient eyes,” by being informed about the way the literature worked and the situation out of which it came.

      So let’s look briefly at the layout of Revelation. The book breaks naturally into five major visions plus a prologue and an epilogue on how these came to be written down. This yields our basic outline of the work, as follows:

      The Prologue (1.1-3)
      John’s “Cover Letter” (1.4-20) and The First Vision
      The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia (2.1-3.22)
      The Second Vision: In the Throne Room of Heaven (4.1-11.19)
      The Seven Seals and the Seven Trumpets
      [Third Vision] Three Great Signs In Heaven: The Cosmic War (12.1-16.21)
      The Beasts, the war, seven plagues, seven bowls of wrath, and Battle of Armageddon
      The Fourth Vision: The Judgment on Babylon [=Rome] (17.1-21.8)

      Part I: The Allegory of the Great Whore – (17.1-18)
      Part II: Babylon [Rome] is Fallen! (18.1-8)
      Part III: Heaven is once again opened: the 1,000 years (19.11-21.8)
      Part IV: A New Heaven and New Earth (21.1-8)

      The Fifth Vision: The New Jerusalem (21.9-22.5)
      The Epilogue: (22.6-21)

      Then in each of these visions, there is a literary device that provides for each new thing seen to propel the viewer on to the next vision. We can see this from the beginning of Vision 1, where John sees the seven lampstands, and then is told to write letters to the seven churches of Asia, for which they stand. But we see it even more clearly in the Vision II in the section that begins by seeing the scroll with seven seals, and then each of the seals is opened one at a time. But the opening of each seal does not result in the same amount of text: the first four are very brief, only two verses each. Then the fifth is longer, and the sixth is the most important, the climax of the sequence, followed by a longer vision. Finally, comes the seventh seal, but when we get there it turns out to be the seven trumpets, and the whole process starts over again as each of the trumpets is sounded in order.

      What results from this is a kind of composite picture created by the cumulative effect of all the material laid out this way. It’s been likened to “chinese boxes” where one opens up a box only to discover another box inside. In the final analysis one gets the sense that we (that is, the ancient “reader”) are always in the sixth, just on the verge of the seventh thing happening. That’s what gives the book its sense of urgency and feel that something important is just about to happen. The overall impact of Vision II, then, is to show the dire and precarious position in which the faithful are now standing, as they await the final things to take place. It is described as a time of famine, plague, oppression, and woe. But all of this probably comes out of a retrospection on the First Revolt and the devastation that occurred when Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. That is precisely the reflection that one sees in the description of the “two witnesses” (or martyrs) who are said to have been slain in the very city where Jesus was killed (11.1-13). So, the sense of desperation and suffering that is so central to Vision II is a direct commentary on the outcome of the War of 66-70 CE.

      At the end of Vision II, when the seventh angel finally sounds his trumpet (11.15-19), then the heavenly throneroom of God is once again opened, and now there appears a new scene. This is the opening of Vision III, the three Signs (or Portents) in Heaven, which are the centerpiece, both literarily and ideologically, of the entire work. For these three “signs” provide the explanation for why the woes and suffering described in Vision II have come upon the earth. The answer, we are now told, is that the war on earth is merely a continuation of a cosmic war begun in heaven between God and Satan (12.1-17). At the end Satan, the Great Red Dragon, is thrown down to earth with his evil angels, and now they begin to make war on the saints (12.18). For his henchmen, the Dragon chooses two helpers, who are called “the beast from the sea” (13.1-10) and “the beast from the land” (13.11-18), who proceed to force all humans to worship the Dragon and the first beast. The result is that God also sends his angelic army to earth, led by the “Lamb who had been slain,” and they will now take on the army of the dragon and the beasts (14.1-20). Now we have seven angels pronounce their woes on all who side with the Dragon followed by seven bowls of wrath, which turn out to be seven plagues (15.1-16.21). Once again it is the sixth that is the most important; it is the Battle of Armageddon (16.12-16) which results in victory for the armies of God.

      Now we see another important component of how Revelation works by thinking about its sense of the time-line of the story. The various visions of Revelation are not a linear progression, so that the events in chapter 12, for example, do not follow in time after the events in chapter 11. Quite the contrary. In the way they set up, the events described in chapters 12-13 are meant to explain how those circumstances in chapters 5-11 came about. So the time-line of the story moves in a kind of cyclical fashion so that we keep coming back to the “present situation” as it stood for the ancient readers of Revelation.

      The result from this way of reading is that the ancient Christians were being told how God would ultimately triumph, and the faithful would be spared. So in Vision IV we see the final judgments against the evil forces of the Roman empire, and the final rewards of the faithful. And its really only at this stage in the text (chapters 18-21) that it starts to look forward in a prospective way toward the near future. At the center of it all is the recognition of how Revelation is depicting the Roman Empire as the Great Whore, with the Emperor as the seven-headed “beast from the sea,” who are the ones carrying out Satan’s war against God on earth. So even Vision IV is carrying out the implications of the central scenes in Vision III. This made most clear when we are told explicitly that the Great Whore is Babylon, who is seated on the Beast with seven heads, as seven hills (17.9). This is both a clear reference to the “seven hills of Rome” and a reference back to the seven-headed beast of Rev. 13.3-10. Then it tells that the seven heads are seven kings (17.9-10), which finally give us the real clue that the “beast” is the Roman emperor himself. The visions continue to unfold information for the ancient reader in order to describe its current situation.

      The Seven-headed Beast of Revelation and the Roman Empire

      The key to understanding the situation is in the vibrant symbolic language that is so typical of ancient apocalyptic writings. The author viewed the religious and political force of Roman rule as a threat. It is now thought that this arose in Ephesus after the year 89 CE when Domitian instituted a new imperial cult sanctuary dedicated to his family, the Flavian dynasty. It had included his father, Vespasian, who as Roman general led the war against the Jews from 66-69. When the Emperor Nero was killed, Vespasian was summoned from Judea to Rome to become the new Emperor. Vespasian then appointed his elder son, Titus, as the commander of the legions in Judea. It was Titus who led the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. When Vespasian died in 79 CE, Titus became the next Emperor. Titus, however, died just two years later in 81, and this left the empire to Vespasian’s younger son, Domitian. Domitian was known as a strong-willed emperor who tolerated no disagreement with his policies. Nonetheless, there is no clear indication that he consciously tried to persecute Christians for their faith.

      beast

      seven headed beast

      For this reason, most scholars now think that the issue revolved around the inauguration of the Flavian imperial cult in Ephesus. The imperial cult was a way of showing loyalty and honor to the Emperor, and was viewed as a public duty of all citizens in a city like Ephesus. Our clearest indication of how this is reflected in Revelation is seen in the description of the two “beasts” from Rev. 13. The first is called “the beast from the sea” who is given his power by Satan himself. He is described as having “seven heads and ten horns,” and people worshipped him (Rev. 13.1-4). Then there is a second, “the beast from the land” who makes every everyone worship the first beast and its “image” (Rev. 13.11-18). The “image” (13.14-15) and the mysterious number “666″ (13.18) refer to statues and coins or inscriptions with the emperor’s image and titles. The “beast from the land” probably referred to either the provincial governor of Asia or to the highpriest of the imperial cult, who jointly would have overseen the temple and its festivals in Ephesus at just this time.

      That the “beast from the sea” is the Emperor himself is made clear in a later passage in Rev. 17, where the symbolism of the seven heads is spelled out.

      9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; also, they are seven kings, 10 of whom five have fallen, one is living, and the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are united in yielding their power and authority to the beast; 14 they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them… (Rev. 17.9-14).

      Accordingly, the woman sits on the seven-headed beast as a symbol of her “seven hills” — the seven hills of Rome. The woman is the city of Roman, here depicted as the persecutor of Christians. Then it says that the seven heads are also seven kings. And we can read from its cryptic terminology the references to the Emperors of Rome. The “five fallen” refer to the five emperors who have died: Augustus (29 BCE – 14 CE), Tiberius (14-37 CE), Gaius (37-41), Claudius (41-54) and Nero (54-68). “One has a wound” refers to the emperor Nero, who died in 68, but whom conftemporary legend had it would return from the dead to continue persecuting the Christians. Thus, the beast has a head that has recovered from a mortal wound. The head “who is” refers to Vespasian (69-79) and the one that is “not yet” refers to Titus(79-81). The head that “was but is not” refers to an eighth emperor, Domitian. From this we can also see that the work looks at this history as if it were being written while Vespasian was still alive, and thus “forecasting” what terrible things would occur under Domitian only a few years later. This technique is common in apocalyptic literature, and Revelation was probably written sometime during the early 90′s, when Domitian was emperor, or perhaps even after the death of Domitian in 96 CE. By portraying the Emperor and his provincial authorities as “beasts” and henchmen of the dragon, Satan, the author was calling on Christians to refuse to take part in the imperial cult, even at the risk of martyrdom.

      Were the Christians being Persecuted? Recent New Testament Scholarship

      Almost all New Testament scholars now take the view that Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian, sometime around 95-96 CE. He is the “beast from the sea” beyond doubt. What is not uniformly understood is how political oppression or persecution against the Christians of Asia Minor influenced the situation and, thus, how Revelation was responding to this situation. There are references to martyrdom and persecution in the Book of Revelation, but to what extent there was a real roundup of Christians going on is a matter of some debate. Here we may examine the question by looking at the views of several of the most notable recent scholars on Revelation.

      a. The Traditional View of New Testament Scholarship.

      The traditional view of Revelation, and of apocalyptic literature in general, is that it grew out of circumstances of persecution. So, Revelation is often compared to Daniel in this regard, since Daniel was written in direct response to the oppressive anti-Jewish measures of the Seleucid monarch, Antiochus Epiphanes IV, at the time of the Maccabean Revolt (167-164 BCE). Thus, scholars would point to Rev. 2.13, which refers to “Antipas, my witness, who was killed among you,” in conjunction with the church at Pergamon. It also refers to the “two witnesses” who were killed and their bodies left in the streets of Jerusalem (Rev. 11.4-13), and there is the numberless crowd of saints “who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb,” who suffered, and who dwell before the altar of heaven (Rev. 7.13-17). It must also be remembered that the words “witness” and its cognates “testify” and “testimony”(which appear some 19 times in Revelation) all come from the Greek word martyrs, from which we get “martyr.” So it is traditionally assumed that there was a direct persecution of those Christians living in Asia Minor during the reign of Domitian, and that this corresponds to “John’s” own exile and imprisonment on Patmos. This is the view maintained in two of the standard and very well-respected older commentaries on Revelation:

      G.B. Caird, A Commentary on the Revelation of St. John the Divine. Harper New Testament Commentary Series. New York: Harper & Row, 1966.

      J. Massyngberde Ford, Revelation: Introduction, Translation, and Commentary. The Anchor Bible, vol. 38. Garden City: Doubleday, 1975.

      Both Caird and Ford thus argue that the purpose of Revelation was to prepare and strengthen the Christians of Asia Minor, as adressed in the letters to the seven churches, so that they will remain faithful against the impending persecution. The remaining visions were then given to show them how the conflict would be played out, with the victory of God agains Satan, and thus encourage them to remain steadfastly on the side of Christ. However, beyond this general assumption of persecution these two works do not think that most of the language of these visions can be taken to pertain literally to precise events in Asia Minor.

      b. A Literalist Reading of Persecution.

      Two recent works, however, have argued that much of the material in the letters to the seven churches (Rev. 2-3), and more generally in Revelation, should be read as literally applicable to the precise circumstances of the day. This is the view of

      Colin Hemer, The Letters to the Seven Churches of Asia in their Local Setting. Sheffield: Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 1986.

      John Court, Myth and History in the Book of Revelation. Atlanta: John Knox Press, 1979.

      Hemer’s approach, however, is largely a reworking of the older view of Sir William Ramsay near the beginning of the XXth century, which tries to equate archaeological evidence of the region with comments in Revelation. This view has been favored among some more conservative New Testament scholars; however, has not found a majority acceptance. Court’s approach differs from Hemer’s by looking more at the literary function of the symbolic (or, as he would say, “mythic”) language of Revelation as being veiled references to concrete historical circumstances of that day. Nonetheless, underlying both of these studies is the assumption of a directe, one-to-one correspondence between much of the language and the situation under Domitian. It is this view that has largely supported the notion that Revelation was intentionally “concealing” or coding its polemic against Rome in order to escape discovery by Roman authorities. But most scholars do not share these views nowadays.

      c. Metaphorical Stances of Revelation against its Environment.

      Perhaps the most common way of dealing with the issue of persecution and the circumstances of Revelation in recent scholarship has been to read the work as a type of religious response to the crisis of Christians facing opposition in the Roman world. This response is couched in metaphorical terms of dualistic oppositions, characteristic of apocalyptic literature. This approach is best illustrated by three recent works:

      John Gager, “The End of Time and the Rise of Community,” in Kingdom and Community: The Social World of Early Christianity. Englewood Cliffs: Prentice Hall, 1975.

      Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, Invitation to the Book of Revelation. Garden City, Doubleday, 1981.

      and

      The Book of Revelation: Justice and Judgment. Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1985; second edition, 1998.

      Adela Yarbro Collins, Crisis and Catharsis: The Power of the Apocalypse. Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1984.

      Both Schüssler Fiorenza and Gager take the view that the precise situation that was threatening the Christians of Asia Minor in the mid-90′s CE was prompted by a new emphasis on the imperial cult in Ephesus, begun under Domitian. Both suggest that there was a pressure for Christians to participate in the imperial cult’s religious festivals, with a threat of punishment or death if they did not. So there was an existential crisis facing these Christians. The author or Revelation wrote in order to resolve this crisis by clearly demarcating the lines and by alienating them from the enticements of participation in pagan society and the imperial cult. The mechanism for this demarcation, they argue, is the use of symbolic language that creates a new sense of the cosmic reality in which these Christians were living. At the center of the Book of Revelation, both literarily and ideologically, stands the “mythic” scene of the woman and the dragon (Rev. 12), which results in the dragon being hurled down to earth where it will persecute “the other children of the woman” (i.e., the church). The two beasts of chapter 13 (symbolizing the emperor and his provincial authorities) thus are placed in this cosmic drama on the side of Satan. The later visions then portray what will happen as the cosmic drama unfolds. Babylon (Rome) will fall, the armies of God will triumph, and Jerusalem (God’s city on earth will be restored. For the Christians of Asia Minor, the battle lines are clearly drawn; it’s only a matter of time until God is victorious.

      Adela Yarbro Collins takes a similar view of the purpose and overall outlook of Revelation, but she does not think the imperial cult itself was a concrete factor, nor that there was much real persecution. It was more of a crisis of faith precipitated by the disconnection between the faith of these Christians and their social experience of alienation. She argues, then, that the work is, if anything, even more metaphorical or symbolic in its approach; it offers a kind of drama of catharsis (or “cleansing”) that resolves the internal conflicts of the hearers. Of these three works, Yarbro Collins is perhaps more in keeping with the way most modern Christians would appropriate the “faith struggle” of Revelation; however, among New Testament scholars Schüssler Fiorenza’s has had the greater influence.

      d. Two Recent Revisionist Views.

      Finally, there are two studies that argue that persecution itself was not at the center of the Christian experience underlying Revelation; however, they take different views of the precise role of the imperial cult. These are:

      Leonard Thompson, The Book of Revelation: Apocalypse and Empire. New York: Oxford University Press, 1990.

      Steven J. Friesen, Twice Neokoros: Ephesus, Asia, and the Cult of the Flavian Imperial Family. Religions in the Graeco-Roman World 116. Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1993.

      and

      Imperial Cults and the Apocalypse of John: Reading Revelation in the Ruins. New York: Oxford University Press, 2000 (forthcoming).

      Thompson goes through a careful analysis of the historical evidence for the reign of Domitian and concludes that there was no real “persecution” of Christians in that day. He also shows that much of the bad reputation heaped on Domitian arose only after his death, when the subsequent emperors (notably Trajan, who ruled from 98-117 CE) made Domitian a “whipping boy” in order to portray themselves as benign and generous rulers. Thompson concludes, therefore, that the imperial cult presented little or no direct crisis for the Christians. Instead, he argues that Revelation was attempting to create a picture of cosmic reality that incorporated all aspects of the daily social life of these ancient Christians of Asia Minor. Revelation does this by incorporating the Roman sense of world order into his own alternative sense of a “new world order” governed by God, through Christ as the triumphant emperor of heaven and earth. This is an intriguing argument in showing the lack of concrete experience of persecution and how Roman imperial ideas seep into the book’s “Christian” vision of reality.

      Steven Friesen, however, has produced the most thoroughgoing study of the extensive archaeological evidence for the existence and the operation of the imperial cult in Asia Minor. He shows convincingly that there was a concrete presence of the imperial cult (along the lines suggested also by Schüssler Fiorenza) that set the framework for the Book of Revelation. In doing so he demonstrates how the imperial cult was not just an enforced participation in particular sacrifices or festivals, but was a more widespread social, political, economic, and religious factor in the lives of provincial citizens. This type of imperial cult activity was something new in Ephesus during the days of Domitian. Whereas there had been imperial cult activity for over a century in cities such as Pergamon, Ephesus had received its first imperial cult temple, and concomitant imperial awards and lofty titles, under Domitian in the year 89 CE. It was this new and heightened imperial rhetoric, growing like wildfire in the provincial cities, that triggered “John’s” reaction. Moreover, this cult, while focused on Domitian himself, also honored his family, the Flavian emperors Vespasian and Titus. And it is this element that yields the underlying apocalyptic tension for the author, for these are the very emperors who had destroyed Jerusalem, the city of God, only two decades earlier. The radical polemic of Revelation is saying, “how can those who call themselves Jews and Christians pay honor to the very family that destroyed the Temple, to the very empire that killed Jesus? They are no less than the henchmen of Satan!” Friesen’s work perhaps more than any recent study has drawn together both the concrete historical circumstances, based on the archaeological evidence, in correlation with the rhetorical stance of the Book of Revelation.

      Modes of Interpreting Revelation

      a. The “Past History” view.

      These previous profiles of current New Testament scholarship on Revelation show what is the dominant view of how to interpret the work in its historical context. This approach is sometimes called the “preterist” (or “past history”) view, meaning that the events described in Revelation all took place in the past and the work must be read in that ancient historical context. It is almost universally followed in both New Testament scholarship and by scholars of Christian history. It is also the view taken within many Christian denominations, although it is often amended to suggest that all the historical events are past and that Revelation was describing a situation in the Roman empire, but that the final judgment in some literal sense is still to come as a future event.

      On the other hand, religious interpretations of Revelation throughout Christian history have not always followed this approach. We shall here profile some other ways that the book has been read by those who want to apply it to their own times. In each case, the difference is how the “historical content” of Revelation is understood.

      b. The “Symbolic History” View.

      This view holds that while the precise historical circumstances of Revelation pertained to the Roman world at the end of the Ist century CE, that it nonetheless has a kind of universal and timeless message for God’s dealing with humanity in all generations. Thus it looks for symbolic elements that may apply across the ages. This symbolic or allegorical view is what lay behind St. Augustine’s reading of Revelation, in which he argued that the 1,000-year reign was not a literal number at all but a figurative way of describing the “age of the church” on earth. This view has been the dominant one in most mainstream Christian interpretation, especially in Catholic tradition. It has also been influential in some philosophical appropriations of Revelation in western thinking.

      c. The “Continuous History” View.

      While the “symbolic history” view (above0 was more-or-less the official view of Revelation adopted by the medieval church, there continued to be literalist readings throughout the Middle Ages. In general, these views took a literal view of the 1,000 years as being the current age of the church. As a result this way of looking at Revelation led some to look to it for ongoing events in the history of Christianity. This mode of interpretation, which sees later events in Christian history as fulfilling “predictions” in the Book of Revelation, is known as the “continuous history” view.

      The first major interpreter to develop this view into a system of reading Revelation with current predictive value was Joachim of Fiore (1132-1202 CE). Based on the number 42 months (Rev. 11.2), the duration of the “trampling of the temple,” Joachim concluded that this was period equal to the 42 generations in Matthew’s genealogy from Adam to Jesus (Matt. 1.17). So, he said that these 42 generations (or 1,260 years) marked the period from the birth of Jesus until the end he saw predicted in Revelation. He then looked identified particular events and individuals in Christian history as fulfilling elements in Revelation in a continuum from the days of Jesus until his own time. So, for example, the beast with seven heads (Rev. 13.1), which are explicitly identified as seven kings (Rev. 17.10) he identifies as evil rulers beginning with Herod the Great and continuing to Saladin, the Turkish leader who had only a few years earlier repulsed the Crusaders from the Holy Land. Joachim thus saw, a figure of his own day, as predicted in Revelation’s unfolding of history from ancient to contemporary times.

      From Joachim’s day down to the mid-XIXth century, this pattern of calculation became the most common form of literalist interpretation of the “predictive” capacity of Revelation. It is therefore the most common mode of interpretation within literalist postmillenial expectation. It was a prominent feature of many end-time calculations and interpretations during the Reformation period in Europe. It was also used by Cotton Mather and others in colonial America and England; they regularly looked for current events that might be fulfillment of Revelation within this scheme, inevitably looking for elements that pointed toward the nearness of the end of time.

      d. The “Future History” View.
      (NOTE: After 1900 YEARS of reading this book one way, scam artists and JUDAS GOATS “reinterpreted” it to suit their self-enrichment plans.
      (1) The “rapture” Prophets for PROFIT are ANTI-Christ DEATH CULTISTS. God/Jesus put you in this LIFE to learn “soul lessons”, to increase your consciousness to the point of Redemption. Hagee and his Ilk REJECT the LIFE God gave you, and dangle a “shortcut” in front of people, just as SATAN dangled Temptation in front of Jesus. Do not follow the ANTI-Christ lies of FALSE prophets. Their “shortcut” of cheating God’s lessons does NOT lead to Heaven, any more than cheating on school work teaches you the subject. Hagee, Robertson, the whole group, do NOT believe in anything except the MONEY they collect for leading their Flocks astray.
      (2) The Greatest Fraud of all in the History of Christianity …. “The Incredible Scofield and His Book” written by Joseph M. Canfield, reveals the following:Cyrus Scofield is a small time politician and career criminal. In 1873, he is forced to resign his position as a District Attorney because of crooked financial transactions that include accepting bribes stealing political contributions, and securing bank notes by forging signatures. Scofield then serves jail time for forgery charges. A heavy drinker, Scofield later abandons his wife and two daughters. His wife finally divorces the drunken crook in 1883. As so many con-men do, Scofield will then claim to have “found Jesus”. He is ordained as a Minister and then claims to have a Doctor of Divinity degree, but this degree is never verified. After several mysterious trips to Europe and New York, Scofield publishes the notated reference Bible that bears his name. The added side notes in Scofield’s Bible inject a very weird “End Times” prophecy into Christianity. Because of Scofield’s altered Bible, many Christians today believe that Jesus will return to save his followers from the “end times” (The Rapture), after Israel is established, and that “God will bless those who bless Israel.” This biblical alteration, at the hands of a known criminal, marks the beginning of a powerful force in American politics known as “Chirstian Zionism” Many millions of “Evangelical” Christians have been mentally infected with Scofield’s poison.

      A new mode of interpreting Revelation beginning in the early XIXth century. It grew mostly out of Protestant theology with a strong reforming element, both in Britain and America. It also drew on the strong tradition of literalist interpretation of Revelation as predicting contemporary events that had become popular in these areas through the “continuous history” view. But this new mode began to look at the past history of Christianity from the New Testament through the Middle Ages and down to its own time in a different light. From this perspective, it was hard to compute how the 1,000 years, if taken literally, could refer to the past history of the church, since that would place the inauguration of the Millenium within the timeframe of the medieval Catholic Church. The new view, therefore, began to argue that none of the events described in the Book of Revelation after chapters 1-3 (i.e., John’s vision and the letters to the seven churches of Asia) had yet come to pass. All the florid images of Revelation 4-22 were instead considered to be predictions of future events that would come to pass in literal terms as the return of Christ and the end approached. Thus, this view looks at Revelation as prediction of “future history.”

      Central to this mode of interpretation is the view that Revelation, along with most of the rest of the Bible constitutes a similar type of “prophecy” of the future, and it often refers to this overall scheme of interpretation as “Bible prophecy.” Much of the interpretation that comes from this perspective involved linking various passages from different parts of the Bible to form a composite that fits current and future expectations. This mode of interpretation is also directly connected to the rise of pre-millenialism, the view that the 1,000 year reign of Christ will be a literal event that will occur only after Christ returns. Thus, the emphasis on interpreting Revelation, lies in equating its images with those events surrounding the return. Several different versions or systems have been proposed for how the actual events will work out.

      The most popular has been that of John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), which is known as Dispensationalism, a view made popular in England and America in the early XXth century through the publication of Cyrus Scofield (1843-1921). First published in 1909, it came to be known as The Scofield Reference Bible. On each page it printed the King James translation of 1611 alongside of Scofield’s own copious “notes” on how to read each passage of the Bible in conjunction with other “prophecies.” It thus provided a chainlink interreferencing system to the Book of Revelation, by which one could jump from passage to passage to follow the “true” meaning. The Scofield Bible continued to be popular among certain Protestant Christian groups. From 1909 to 1967 it sold more than 10 million copies; reprinted in 1967, it is said to have sold another 2.5 million copies by 1990. More than any other “future history” interpretation, this one has had the most impact on current literalist interpretations of Revelation.

      • James Trusty

        Excellent analysis. All I can add is that, if one attempt to interpret Revelation literally and fit it into today’s circumstances, then it begins and ends with false prophecies. After all, the author (or authors) states outright that the (supposed) prophecies in the book are supposed to begin unfolding very soon. Personally, I believe the author (or authors) attempted to do something good and noble. But I seriously doubt he or they were inspired by God or the Son to write anything. Revelation is essentially an amalgam of prophetic rhetoric derived from Jewish apocalyptic literature interpreted through a contemporary (so-called) Christian perspective….

    • Louis

      There is only one true version of APOCALYPSE — the Latin Vulgate and its English Douay translation.

      But put any sacred text into the hands of a blithering idiot such as JANGO, and what you will get is utter nonsense below the level of demented.

      • HumanBeing

        The Vulgate is not terribly accurate, and the Douay-rheims is the RCC’s rendering of it in English. Nothing outstanding about either one.

        And if you call anyone who disagrees with you or your “church” a “blithering idiot”, you give me no reason to listen to you.

    • liberty

      Actually Im going to interject with a very different perspective:

      WHY…. over the past 50,60 some odd years has there been THOUSANDS of DIFFERENT interpretations, teachings, books “explainations”, “breakdowns’,”exogisises” compiled, sold, or “revealed” concerning the Book of Revelations….and they all differ from each other throwing people into confusion about the “Correct” interpretation?

      Answer: Because satan is the AUTHOR of CONFUSION.

      He “confuses” through the carnal minds of MEN leaning on their own understanding trying to understand, figure out or out-think the DIVINE…and yes, that of RELIGIOUS minds or scholars. .
      So..the next question is WHY has he made it his mission to CONFUSE so many concerning the Book of Revelations?
      Answer: Because he FEARS it .

      So if you look at the bigger picture of the Book of Revelations and you go backwards in time, then forwards, you see that at different times, some of those prophecies have actually been fullfilled…………….
      YET…………
      here we are in 2014… and satan is stronger then ever, more present then ever -if not WORSE then he ever has been…but just in the past 2 years hes been confusing even MORE concerning the Book of Revelations…….
      so ……….it is obvious he is STILL REALLY afraid..
      but WHY ?

      ANSWER ….because obviously , those prophecies were meant to happen again and again and again ……until SATANS end.
      Or rather, those prophecies were meant to COMPLETELY come to the FULL.

      Which …..they havent yet , but ….as you watch the worlds EVENTS UNFOLDING , day by day, as each year passes, you know it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that, what you read in the Book of Revelations TODAY in 2014, IS actually UNFOLDING or “forming” before your very eyes…..and you already know the NEXT chapter or verse , still to unfold.

      But the Book of Revelations was intended for ONE thing and one thing only :
      To draw you closer to GOD and to recognize that the ONLY One whom can SUPERNATURALLY save you in the days ahead when the REST of the Book of Revelations unfolds ; is GOD.
      The only one whom can give you SUPERNATURAL protection and instruction and carry out the SUPERNATURAL MIRACLES that you read about in the EARLIER part of the Bible ..is GOD.

      So…………..if satan had nothing to fear because “all these things’ have been fulfilled already and so therefore, all we are reading today in 2014 is merely an accounting of something which happened along time ago, then
      …..there would be no need for him to send as much CONFUSION as he has been doing and INCREASING with ,especially in the past couple years, and posts like these to “confuse” from all the other “confusing posts” about the Book of Revelations ( as though multitudes are determined to try and “out-prove “ each other)… would not even be existing.

      I ask you all WHY is something so simple, so hard to figure out ?

      I didnt have to rely on one scripture or refer to one MANS teaching to lay this out for you.

      Satans afraid ……to the point where he has to confuse-even now in 2014. Figure out WHY!
      Duh!!!

      • HumanBeing

        So, you alone know how things must be understood, and you alone got this knowledge directly from God because you alone are worthy… right?

        Or, like everyone else, did you get it “from men”?

        Come on, think up a new tactic to claim superiority. You didn’t come up with this by any better means than anyone else got their ideas; you too are among “men”, mortals, fallible humans.

        DUH!

    • Love Ya

      read the book of revelations the same as you should read the whole bible. ask Yah for His Spirit to guide you into the precious understanding of His Word. don’t go by any man’s explanations. Yahuah will give you understanding as He see fit. the key here is Yah does what He wants and gives what He wants. not all of us receive the same gifts. there is, however, only one Spirit to connect with. i agree that many of the prophecies have happened with the 70 AD temple destruction. some are still to come. whatever is written is good for us to learn from the past. learn and grow. one day, the Father Himself will come and live with us and all will know His one and only Truth. for now, let us all show love and mercy and kindness to each other. it is His main purpose. peace to all.

      • Anonymous

        So you are on “FIRST NAME” basis with god? He is just Yah instead of YAHWEH ….. God’s name is REALLY Fred.

    • greenghost

      The book you call the bible also has many versions. It was heavily edited. The roman emperor Constantine locked the early church leaders in a room and forced them to decide which books were to be thrown out and which were included in the bible. Constantine was a sun worshiping pagan until his dying day.

      • HumanBeing

        Bunk, greenghost. The only truth in your comment is that Constantine was a sun worshiping pagain till his death. Nothing else has any basis in fact. We have access to early manuscripts from before Constantine, who didn’t give a rip what books were canonical. And the Christians and Jews already knew which books were accepted as authentic and which weren’t; the Council simply acknowledged the list.

        It’s popular today for everyone who hates the Bible to promote anything and everything that might contradict it, without putting such “evidence” to any test, while ignoring the thousands of years the Bible has been critiqued. If you put your sources, if they even exist or you can be bothered to try to find them, to the same demands as you do to the Bible, you won’t have anything at all to believe.

        • Pix

          There is absolutely no evidence that Christianity existed prior to the 6th century CE.

        • Pix

          Nobody hates the bible, it has it’s place in literature, but that’s about the sum of it’s usefulness. If the future is known for a fact then nothing matters, because nothing can be done to alter the outcome. The known cannot be changed.

          :lol:

        • Pix

          What evidence are you talking being put to the test? You don’t have any evidence. Exactly the reason why your religious indoctrination is a FAITH, not a fact.

          You are hilarious though, keep the gags coming. :lol:

      • Pix

        Constantine was a completely insane despot, also a rabid devout follower of Mithra, who also used the cross. There is no evidence that Constantine created Christianity. Christianity claims based on his use of the cross, which is an ancient pagan symbol.

        :wink:

    • Pix

      Well, Revelation is Greek in origin, found on the Greek Island of Patmos, in a cave famous for it’s use by Shaman. It’s about Greek mythology, some of which Christianity has been based on. EG. Dionysus-Ysus-Jesus, thousands of years older including dying on the cross.

      Dionysus is a jovial character with a love of the vine, and turning water into wine. It’s part of the mystery cults and their lack of knowledge about what happens to the body when you drink alcohol, and other such mind altering substances. Another would be Apollo the prophetic deity of the Delphic Oracle. They used to inhale a hallucinogenic gas and or consume substances that induce vivid imagery and dreams, alcohol/wine being one such substance.

      :wink:

    • Prudence Wright

      Do any of you realize that the Bible today has been heavily edited back at the turn of last century? Prior to 1900, the Bible included many more books, which were removed and when the printing cycle hit in the early 1900′s the book you can get today was distributed…. don’t believe me, go find a Bible that was printed prior to 1889…and you will see exactly what I mean.

      Also helps to remove much information to confuse and discredit. Funny how all religions have very similar early stories, many “myths” have had their skeletons dug up here recently, yet most people in society don’t even question any of them?

      • Pix

        Absolutely. The bible was compiled throughout the 6th to 10th centuries CE. During the reformation it spilt into two main groups, the original Catholic version and various Protestant versions. Since then there are now over 100’000 different sub-cults all with their own versions and all claiming ‘they are the only true Christians’.

        Just goes to show how Yeats got it right with his poem ‘The 2nd coming’ Things fall apart when the center cannot hold. He’s talking about state enforced thought and belief intolerant religions.

        ” Turning and turning in the widening gyre
        The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Surely some revelation is at hand;
        Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
        The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
        When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
        Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
        A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
        A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
        Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
        Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

        The darkness drops again but now I know
        That twenty centuries of stony sleep
        Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
        And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
        Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?”

      • HumanBeing

        Do any of you realize that we have manuscripts in Greek from within a hundred years of the originals? And that the canon was established even before the Council of Nicea in the 300s AD?

        You people who repeat this nonsense have no clue what you’re talking about, because you just copy it from sites like “evilbible” or third-hand from sites that got it from others. You are as religious and accepting things by blind faith as any Christians or any other religions. You don’t fact-check any claim made against the Bible.

        You yourself believe and spread modern myths. It’s getting to the point where people are practically begging to be left in ignorance, because they hate the truth and prefer lies. The Bible even predicted this, so you’re fulfilling its prophecies right now.

        • Pix

          “The oldest surviving Hebrew Bible manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls date to about the 2nd century BCE (fragmentary) and some are stored at the Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem. The oldest record of the complete text survives in a Greek translation called the Septuagint, dating to the 4th century CE (Codex Sinaiticus). The oldest extant manuscripts of the vocalized Masoretic text, which modern editions are based upon, date to the 9th century CE.[citation needed] With the exception of a few biblical sections in the Prophets, virtually no biblical text is contemporaneous with the events it describes[1]“

    • Crying Teeth

      1st, a comment to Louis – If one is Christian in word and deed, he is one INDEED. Speaking the truth in LOVE, Love the truth; otherwise what is presented is “with all deceivableness of unrighteosness in them that perish; because THEY RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.” 2 Thess 2:10. One must be willing to be reproved or rebuked in order to CHANGE. Be kind, be humble. Keep God’s commandments. Be “Christ-Like”. The WRATH of GOD is at hand.

      2nd, a comment to Pix – I read Revelation plainly states that IT IS THE WORD OF GOD Written by THE WORD OF GOD (Jesus Christ/Yahshua Messiah), therefore, those who BELIEVE that the WORD OF GOD is THE WORD OF GOD, WILL be led by the spirit of God to UNDERSTAND IT PLAINLY. Those who do not understand are not being led by God or his spirit of discernment of truth. Those who are led by the spirit of God UNDERSTAND IT (REVELATION) VERY DEFINITELY OR ELSE Revelation 22:14-21 would never have been its conclusion. God (Elohim) SAYS WHAT HE MEANS AND MEANS WHAT HE SAYS. Fools dote about his Word with nonsense. Therefore, he will not and does not alter the thing going forth from his mouth or mouth pieces (the prophets, such as John). God changes not.

      Revelation is NOT of Greek origin, but of ARAMAIC (ancient Hebrew), for “salvation is OF the Jews,” via “the King of the Jews” even) Yahshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. It is GREEK translations and transliterations which have suppressed and crushed the truth of the TRUE WORD bringing Greek “mythology” into the churches of Babylon.

      Example; there is no such thing as an immortal soul. Christ/God alone is “immortal” (1 Timothy 1:17). This RC falsity insinuates itself into almost ALL protestantism.

      Example; when one dies he does not go to heaven and there is no such thing as a fiery “burning hell.” TODAY the news is full of the reports of life after death; whereas the Word teach quite plainly that when you die you cease to exist in any form but what God remembers until the resurrection FROM THE DEAD. “The dead know not anything.” (See Eccles 9/Psalm 115:17/146:4/13:3/John 11, etc.)

      Example; over 7000 of times the Greek translators have obliterated the Eternal Creator’s NAME out of their translations: YAHWEH!

      Example; the NAME of the Saviour is hidden in the OT over 100 times—where it says “salvation” it should say very plainly YAHSHUA, which means “God’s salvation.”

      One must DIG into the WORD OF GOD B E L I E V I N G
      IT IS
      THE WORD OF GOD, WITH A WILLINGNESS TO BE Meek and to be TAUGHT AND GIVE UP selfish and HUMAN AND FALSE INTERPRETATIONS. This KEATS did not do, neither making THE WORD or YAHSHUA The CENTER!

      3rd, to Jiliana. Revelation is for OUR TIMES, not “those times,” (as if antiquated and ambiguous ), for the WORD OF GOD IS LIVING, therefore, what WAS WRITTEN is concerning “things which shortly must come to pass” (vs 1) as “the TIME IS AT HAND” (vs 3). See also Revelation 22:7;12 and 20, for the final OBJECT of “those times” from AD 70 (apprx) to NOW is the coming of Jesus Christ the 2nd time, while “all the world” follows the (1st) beast of Rome, and then the “image of the (2nd) beast”man (false prophet, the USA) [see Rev. 13], and herald SATAN as if he were the true Christ/Messiah! Most people do not want to spend much TIME carefully studying and searching and DIGGING for the truths if the book of Revelation. Most people have impulsive internet get it now read it now give it to me without cost or privilege or conditions.

      Finally, to Jango. Good post! I’ll add a bit more.

      It’s not ALL about bad versions. It’s about bad TRANSLATIONS. (Especially Scofield and other Bibles which teach and lead into falsity). And even that isn’t the real reason for the book of Revelation’s MISINTERPRETATION AND SUPPRESSION by Apostate Protestants, Messianic Jews and Christians, and Roman Catholicism. [There are MANY Good and accurate “translations” of the Bible and Revelation); no, THE REAL REASONS is that the book of Revelation, when correctly understood in the light of proven sacred and secular history REVEALS that at the heart of evil on this planet is the PAPACY—ROME. Revelation reveals that the USA would be a “False Prophet”(USA) OF ROME, doing HER evil at the end of time (deceptively deluding and deceiving the nations). Revelation REVEALS that those alone who resist these evil “beasts” (kings/kingdoms/nations) are those who keep God’s commandments and the (very) FAITH OF YAHSHUA (Jesus) who was “the King of the Jews”-for “salvation is OF the Jews.”

      So it’s not ALL ABOUT VERSIONS, it’s really more about INTERPRETATION AND TRANSLATION AND PREVIOUS HISTORY ESTABLISHING CORRECT EXEGESIS OF PROPHECY.

      SUPPRESSION of the book of Revelation is twofold in scope.

      1) Satan orders it—and MOST accept his order and the folly thereof and end up following the “beasts”(kings/kingdoms/nations) and their leaders – “blind leaders of the blind.” And,

      2) YAHWEH (the Eternal Creator) and his Son Yahshua permit it thus—for the FEW who are whole-heartedly desirous of following the Lamb whithersoever he goeth, for “they loved not their lives unto the death.”

      The true Christian knows that YAHSHUA/JESUS IS THE CENTER OF ALL PROPHECY IN REVELATION.

      • Pix

        “2nd, a comment to Pix – I read Revelation plainly states that IT IS THE WORD OF GOD Written by THE WORD OF GOD (Jesus Christ/Yahshua Messiah), therefore, those who BELIEVE that the WORD OF GOD is THE WORD OF GOD,… ”

        Before you can make such a statement, you must prove there is a god.

        Facts. Modern humans have been around for at least 100’000 years. Your book is only 1’000 years old, it was compiled throughout the 6th to 10th centuries by Christians when it was a state enforced thought and belief intolerant dictatorship.

        Question. Why would an all powerful creator god wait 99’000 years before issuing a rule book to one small group of people?

      • Pix

        Do you believe the truth needs enforcing by the state on pain of death, before it’s believable?

    • ncovercomers

      No one can interpret, or even translate scripture accurately, whether it is the book of Genesis or the book of Revelation, or anything in between, without the Holy Spirit of God opening it up to our understanding. There is only one true interpretation. All else is error and of the AntiChrist spirit. God gives his interpretation to those that truly are seeking him with all there hearts. The biggest mistake we make is when we try and guess from our flesh what the scriptures are saying.

      That is where false doctrines come from. Scriptures tells us plainly;

      1Thes. 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

      If we have the true revelation of Christ, from Christ, it will match every scripture from the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation. There will be no doubt it is truth then. Too many people throw out their interpretation without the evidence to back it up from the scriptures. God will hold us accountable for that.

      2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

      • HumanBeing

        ncovercomers,

        I’m sure you mean well, but most interpretation errors are due simply to human imperfection. The Holy Spirit is a perfect transmitter, but we are imperfect receivers. That’s why we’re supposed to work together and try to get along even when we still disagree. Of course, some teachings really are demonically-inspired, but this is not determined solely by whether they always agree with what we personally feel is right.

        By the way: you took 2 Peter 1:20 out of context, and that’s another source of false teachings. That verse is in the context of whether prophecies come from the prophets or the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with difference of opinion on the meaning of a given passage of scripture. Peter is saying that the things we believe were not made up but came from God.

        So don’t be arrogant and think you alone have the correct interpretation of every part of scripture. Be humble and remember to consider the context.

        • ncovercomers

          The scripture speaks for itself. You either believe it or you don’t. I only posted the scripture. How is that taking it out of context? No where does that verse say what you did here: (Peter is saying that the things we believe were not made up but came from God).

          I will take what Peter actually said instead of what you say he said.

          Tell me, who’s word should I believe, your’s or God’s?

          And yet you make it sound as if I am the arrogant one. I post the scripture and you post your opinion of it.

        • HumanBeing

          ncovercomers,

          I believe the scriptures… not your opinions of them. If you and I disagree on an interpretation, you don’t get to win by default. People are imperfect, and that includes you.

          I already explained how you took that verse out of context. What YOU think Peter said doesn’t carry more weight that what anyone else thinks Peter said. You are as human as anyone else.

          Tell me, whose word should I believe, yours or God’s?

          Yes, you’re being arrogant, equating your opinions as divine. You posted YOUR OPINION OF IT too, you know. I can hardly believe this has to be explained. It’s a double standard on your part.

        • Pix

          ncovercomers “The scripture speaks for itself.”

          Sure, the 8 essential criteria Jesus gave for entry into heaven:

          1. Luke 10:25-28 Love everyone
          2. Luke 18:18-22 Sell everything
          3. Luke 14:26-33 Hate everyone/thing, sell everything
          4. John 6:53-54 Eat flesh, Drink blood
          5. Matthew 18:2-3 Be a little child
          6. John 3:3-8 Be a born again infant
          7. Matthew 5:17-20 Practice all 613 OT laws
          8. John 3:16 Believe in Jesus.

          So it’s clear, to be a Christian you have to be anal about practicing all 613 Jewish laws, even though Judaism didn’t exist until after 70 CE, invented by the Pharisees. Be a propertyless, blood sucking, flesh eating, schizophrenic infant child, who believes a plagiarised pagan Greek character called Dionysus was actual and not an allegory.

          If you took a moment to think your claims through, for example you are talking about prophesy the telling of known future, then nothing matters. Nothing anybody does can change the known, it would make everything absolutely meaningless. We would be nothing but preprogrammed Sims unable to do anything other than follow the set known future, the plaything of a narcissistic schizophrenic monster.

        • Truth in Reporting

          Human Being is SPAM SUPREME!
          Just look at the number of posts on this one article by “human being”!

          Definitely a very well known character on BIN called Beef Supreme.
          His real name is Jed, and he is from NJ (not heaven)!
          No wonder he is such a “hovering, over whelming fruit cake” for christ, of course!
          NJ is a TOXIC state!
          :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

        • CrowPie

          If human being IS BEEF Supreme…..GOOD!

          GLAD to have him Back! If not….Welcome to BIN. :cool:

        • Greg

          Hi Crowpie!

          Don’t listen to “Truth in Reporting” for one minute my Love.

          “Truth in Reporting” is a liar and a suspected persona of the demon inflicted Chris Creeps.

          :cool:

        • Greg

          Quote: “Truth in Reporting” is a liar and a suspected persona of the demon inflicted Chris Creeps.

          If anyone thinks I’m kidding click on “truth in Reporting”‘s name and look at his profile:

          It even says “Manggod”

          YOU ARE A LOSER CHRIS

        • CrowPie

          Hi Nik Rem,

          Yes. “Truth” has gone by many suspect personas over the past several months. Some male, even some female.

          A sad, sad case, indeed. But Beef Supreme was a fine thorn in the demons side. As you can see….the phantom pains still torment the imp.

          Not to detract from the Welcome that we extend to the Good and well versed human being that HumanBeing obviously proves themself.

        • HumanBeing

          Let me assure you all that I have never used any other name here on BIN but HumanBeing. I’ve had strong disagreements with Beef in the past, and “mangod” recently.

        • Truth in Reporting

          You disgusting “christians” are going to wish you were only “dealing with a demon” by the time THIS Heretic gets done with you sniveling, cowardly, do-nothing sub-humans!

          Like the pathetic weakling known as Jed from NJ wrote his name and address and home phone number on this BIN site (exposing his wife and children to danger, because of christ, of course) BECAUSE OF HIS OWN sinful PRIDE AND ANGER towards the non-believers that “questioned” him,
          so, too, will you pathetic members of christendom do something STUPID to “Defend your Fable” to the death, just like the brain-washed from birth KILLER-CULT members YOU ALL ARE!

          ……………………AH, THE HORROR of do-nothing christians and their mind control religion……………….
          THE HORROR of do-nothing christians and their mind control religion!!!!!!

        • CrowPie

          HumanBeing,

          Everyone has had strong disagreements with both Beef and Mangod and Truth……it is the nature of BIN. We Speak openly about touchy and highly charged subjects.

          When you step into the “ring” you must be prepared to take a few “licks.” :grin:

        • Greg

          Quote: “Not to detract from the Welcome that we extend to the Good and well versed human being that HumanBeing obviously proves themself.”

          Couldn’t agree with you more :) Welcome HumanBeing. This place is a den of vipers, liars and thieves. Watch yourself Sir.

          Speaking of, I wonder if it’s a coincidence that PIX ( who seems to have no end of time to devote to attacking anything he thinks might be related to Christianity ) is from Iceland.

          “Because I don’t like coincidence,” Blunt replied. “In fact, I don’t believe in coincidence. Where some
          people see coincidence, I see conspiracy. That’s my job.”
          ― Anthony Horowitz, Point Blank

        • HumanBeing

          Not to worry, CrowPie. BIN isn’t my first battleground. Sometimes I just get tired of it.

          But thank you, and Nik Rem, for the kind welcome. I’ve been here a while but haven’t been commenting actively the last few months. Yes, the viper pit… hopefully, after so many bites, I’m building up immunity. Even so, widespread ignorance or deliberate lies can be very trying on one’s efforts to remain civilized. Agree also about Pix (nice tie-in to ice!). His bio says he’s a professor, but I don’t know of any real, current professors who have so much time on their hands, and exhibit so little awareness of scholarly research about the Bible (as opposed to internet copy/paste nonsense).

        • CrowPie

          Agreed.

        • Greg

          HumanBeing,

          There is a whole lotta people “pretending to be other than they are” on here which ups the ante significantly in the “deliberate lies can be very trying on one’s efforts to remain civilized” department.

          For example:
          There is one “person” in this very thread who is not only a member of the “hair-club for men” they are also the president.

          I was thinking of putting a little expose together for “thedirty” and spamming it out among the IT community. Always good for others to know what kind of man they are doing business with.

        • Truth in Reporting

          You have NO IDEA who I am, nik rem FULL of FLEM, and you WILL NOT find out!

          Spoken like a TRUE lying, thieving, bluffing, judeochris0CREEP, eh, nik rem, who is full of flem!

          So, go scare some little children with your funny, comical, cryptic “threats”, oh, nk rem, full of the FLEM, for christ!

        • CrowPie

          :roll:

        • CrowPie

          Oh, Can I say his name? please let me say his name……..

          TED CRUZ. There! President and member of the hair club for men!

        • ignis fatuus

          You spelled ‘phlegm’ wrong, punk.

        • Greg

          “You have NO IDEA who I am,”

          Is that so? Are you sure?

          I made a vague allegory alluding to “hair-club for men” and like a fart in a wet-suit you appear to say I don’t know who you are..

          Buahahahhahahahahhahahaha.

          Many here know exactly who you are Chris.
          It’s as obvious as that unkempt dirty grey rug on your head.

        • HumanBeing

          Good idea, Nik Rem. Something like a “sock puppet clearinghouse”, right?

          I know all too well about sock puppet attacks. They put one on each finger, then surround the victim and hurl a barrage of lies, until either the victim says something that can be used to get them banned, or they simply impersonate the victim and do it for them. So yes, a list of personas and aliases might be very useful.

          Some of them are just annoying, even entertaining. Others are more methodical and disciplined, but they can’t resist tipping their hand eventually. And then there’s the rabid, drooling creatures who exhibit all forms of mental illness and have no discipline whatsoever.

          “And this is why we can’t have nice things.” :mrgreen:

        • Truth in Reporting

          Oh, look, I am surrounded by the sub-humans of BIN infected with the “Spiritual christian Herpes”!

          The disease, this HORRIBLE christian affliction, HAS NO CURE!

          So, the spiritual terrorists will be locked away in a FEMA Camp soon, for my protection!
          This president WILL take their guns away, FOR MY PROTECTION!

          The age of rule by very violent members of judeochrisSCUMdumb IS OVER!
          Now, they time has come to PREY on them, the proud members of judeochrisSCUMdumb!!!!

        • CrowPie

          Oh , pipe down “truth” and have a juicy fruit. A bit of humor wouldn’t hurt you, either.

        • Greg

          Chris is just frustrated that most of the world sees his “faith” as a cult.

          ” They carefully craft a picture of being a religious grouping practicing their exercises and being all about compassion, tolerance, benevolence, and other nice things. Well, for better or worse, they’re anything but tolerant or compassionate. “

        • Mirabolin

          @Truth in Reporting

          You’re REALLY starting to lose it Pix(ie dust)!

        • ignis fatuus

          Mirabolin

          Pix is just a lonely, compulsive, pathological liar.

          She is not an insane rat.

        • Greg

          Hello ignis fatuus,

          You are probably on the money about Pix. I sense a hen-pecked man though…

          Want to hear something VERY strange Sir?

          Check out the biblical meaning of the name “isabella”

          “In Hebrew the meaning of the name Isabella is: Devoted to God”

          You can’t make this up.

        • Pix

          Truth in Reporting
          Human Being is SPAM SUPREME!

          I don’t think so. Beefy knows better than to argue with me over the unsubstantiated. He’s lost every argument and hasn’t bothered for over 6 months.

          :lol:

        • Greg

          @Pix,

          By “unsubstantiated” you mean practically everything you post on this site?

          By “He’s lost every argument and hasn’t bothered for over 6 months.” you really mean

          “I Pix basically run away like a chickensh!t little girl, over and over when pressed for evidence of my unsubstantiated claims because I am more worried about volume and hearing myself talk than I am about integrity or truth”

          There we go. Fixed that for you little pika.

        • Pix

          Thanks for the lolz. In particular:

          Nik Rem “Speaking of, I wonder if it’s a coincidence that PIX ( who seems to have no end of time to devote to attacking anything he thinks might be related to Christianity ) is from Iceland.”

          No end of time,… ROFLIMAFO actually about 1/2 hour a day on average depending on what I’m doing at work.

          Human Being “Agree also about Pix (nice tie-in to ice!). His bio says he’s a professor, but I don’t know of any real, current professors who have so much time on their hands, and exhibit so little awareness of scholarly research about the Bible (as opposed to internet copy/paste nonsense).”

          Nice challenge… try these Christian scholarly book quotes on for size.

          Prof. Franz Cumont, of the University of Ghent, writes as follows concerning the religion of Mithra and the religion of Christ: “The sectaries of the Persian god, like the Christians’, purified themselves by baptism, received by a species of confirmation the power necessary to combat the spirit of evil; and expected from a Lord’s supper salvation of body and soul. Like the latter, they also held Sunday sacred, and celebrated the birth of the Sun on the 25th of December…. They both preached a categorical system of ethics, regarded asceticism as meritorious and counted among their principal virtues abstinence and continence, renunciation and self-control. Their conceptions of the world and of the destiny of man were similar. They both admitted the existence of a Heaven inhabited by beatified ones, situated in the upper regions, and of a Hell, peopled by demons, situated in the bowels of the Earth. They both placed a flood at the beginning of history; they both assigned as the source of their condition, a primitive revelation; they both, finally, believed in the immortality of the soul, in a last judgment, and in a resurrection of the dead, consequent upon a final conflagration of the universe” (The Mysteries of Mithras, pp. 190, 191).

          Reverend Charles Biggs stated: “The disciples of Mithra formed an organized church, with a developed hierarchy. They possessed the ideas of Mediation, Atonement, and a Savior, who is human and yet divine, and not only the idea, but a doctrine of the future life. They had a Eucharist, and a Baptism, and other curious analogies might be pointed out between their system and the church of Christ (The Christian Platonists, p. 240).

          McClintock and Strong wrote: “In modern times Christian writers have been induced to look favorably upon the assertion that some of our ecclesiastical usages (e.g., the institution of the Christmas festival) originated in the cultus of Mithraism. Some writers who refuse to accept the Christian religion as of supernatural origin, have even gone so far as to institute a close comparison with the founder of Christianity; and Dupuis and others, going even beyond this, have not hesitated to pronounce the Gospel simply a branch of Mithraism” (Art. “Mithra”).

          The Christian Father Manes, founder of the sect known as Manicheans, believed that Christ and Mithra were one. His teaching, according to Mosheim, was as follows: “Christ is that glorious intelligence which the Persians called Mithras … His residence is in the sun” (Ecclesiastical History, 3rd century, Part 2, ch. 5).

          Mirabolin @Truth in Reporting You’re REALLY starting to lose it Pix(ie dust)!

          PIX doesn’t mean the same thing in English as it does in Icelandic. :wink:

          :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

          Why don’t you concentrate on making a point instead of turning any discussion into a popularity based bun fight. I really don’t a sh*t if you like what I say or not.

        • HumanBeing

          All true, Nik. I learned long ago to ignore Pix, who trolls every Christian article, day in and day out… all while claiming in his bio that he is a professor. No matter who refutes his nonsense, or how many times, he keeps repeating to himself that he is the victor. You can’t reason with such people, which is why I just ignore him.

        • HumanBeing

          And in case anyone thinks the ridiculous “myth-ra” myth is valid: http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.php

        • Greg

          HumanBeing,
          Watching pika Pix talk to his “self” is kind of sad really.

          I see no evidence this compulsive person has higher cognitive function.. just a copy/paste troll who cries wolf when someone confronts “him” about his disdainful repetitive actions.

          If he was a professor surely he would understand “discourse” and “debate” and not “post and run away” then “post months later claiming to have won something”.

          Maybe it’s a cultural thing with Icelanders. In most western nations the Man takes a front role and stands up for what he believes. The other Nordic countries from what I’ve seen take pride in their word and honor.

          Anything less to most is “unseemly” and would explain why “pix” is always mistaken for an adolescent girl.

        • HumanBeing

          From the article I linked:

          “Check their sources carefully. If they cite source material from the Cumont or pre-Cumont era, then chances are excellent that they are using material that is either greatly outdated, or else does not rely on sound scholarship (i.e., prior to Cumont; works by the likes of King, Lajard, and Robertson).”

          Of course, the Pix starts off citing none other than Cumont. I has a lol. :grin:

        • HumanBeing

          It really is sad, Nik. Comically tragic, even. If only he’d do real research as others have done, who set out to disprove the resurrection of Jesus, and became Christians as a result of their own discoveries.

        • HumanBeing

          And another thing: anybody who cites Manichean teachings REALLY knows nothing of Christianity. This is what non-Calvinists cite as a slam on Calvin, who got his teachings almost verbatim from Augustine, who was heavily influenced by Manichean teachings and also is cited as the father of Roman Catholicism. We Arminians laugh at any offering of Manichean, Augustinian, or Calvinist teachings as being related to genuine Christian teachings.

        • ignis fatuus

          “Maybe it’s a cultural thing with Icelanders.”

          Perish the thought. I can think of no valid reason to inculpate an entire race of wayward Norse settlers on account of the excessive equivocations and profuse prevarications of a single fibbing fabulist.

          “…and would explain why “pix” is always mistaken for an adolescent girl.”

          That is a remarkable phenomenon, is it not? I can scarcely recall any other online presence who has been challenged on the point as often. And whether she is or isn’t a man makes little difference. The salient fact is that precious few people believer her when she claims to be, even if the claim is true. And if true, we would of course be using the term ‘man’ in the most flexible sense imaginable.

        • Pix

          Nik Rem and Human Being.

          The truth is not a popularity contest, it’s not based on the popularity of people either.

          The truth is incorruptible in that it does not matter how many people know about or believe it, it will forever remain the truth.

          The fact that you are attempting to turn any argument into a popularity contest, only goes to prove your motives are political, it certainly has nothing to do with valid arguments.

          :lol:

        • Greg

          @ ignis fatuus,

          I stand corrected on my erroneous use of Pix as a model for generalizing Icelandic Men.

          Such a statement would have infuriated a stern response from ANY Nordic man I’ve ever met.

          Instead we get this gem:

          “truth is not a popularity contest, it’s not based on the popularity of people either”

          ^ Something only an adolescent girl would even care to know about on her way to “truth”

          P.S. Where did the president for the Hair-Club for men go? At least the demon inside that one has a “little” spunk and a few soft brown teeth left. Sadly that thing is like Pix… just a pika with no game when the spot lights on.

        • HumanBeing

          @Nik,

          Yeah, that line about us allegedly appealing to popularity… as if when Pix cites sources it’s research, but when we cite them it’s appeal to popularity. Or as if when Pix posts endlessly against many, many Christian articles it’s not trolling. Methinks it’s really the shock response to finally having people give him a taste of his own medicine.

      • Crying Teeth

        Good thoughts ncovercomers. We must be more noble than those in Thessalonica, for “we have the mind of Christ” and understand all things by his spirit and no man can judge the spiritual man. “And by their fruits…”The “prophecy shall fail…but love never fails.”

      • Truthseeker

        ncovercomers,

        The best way to understand what a scripture is saying is to let the Bible interpret the Bible.

        The Word of God is here a little there a little.

        there are 4000 or more flavors of so called christianity, why? because men want it to mean what they want it to mean.

      • Pix

        ““…and would explain why “pix” is always mistaken for an adolescent girl.””

        So can I explain why,.. you have no point so are forced into resorting to puerile name calling. You can call me a girl if it makes you feel better about yourself. Shrugs.

        :lol:

        • ignis fatuus

          “You can call me Susan if it makes you ‘appy.”

          — Bullet Tooth Tony

          And Pix deftly dodges the point yet again.

          Grins.

        • Pix

          What point would that be?

        • Greg

          @Pix Quote” What point would that be? ”

          Shirley you can’t be this daft.

          The clear point is you don’t act like a man at all on here (no honor, no balls, little honesty) and it’s noticed by all for a very long time.. you act like a spoiled little girl with a persecution complex when someone calls you on your crap.

          This is “the community” being honest with you “Buttercup”

          I find it hard to believe this is good enough even for you.

          ( Look down.. you are talking about Elves.. your name is Pix… wake up girl )

          Here’s some emoticons to tickle your fancy little feather

          :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

        • Pix

          WTF has someones gender got to with anything? That’s not a point it’s just stupid.

        • Pix

          “This is “the community” being honest with you “Buttercup””

          That’s hilarious. Actually just you and your tiny little circle jerk who can’t come up with a valid point.

          :lol:

        • Pix

          Nik Rem “you act like a spoiled little girl with a persecution complex when someone calls you on your crap.”

          Such as? You haven’t come up with a single valid counter argument. Just puerile mud slinging, name calling and making out you are speaking on behalf of the BiN community. Not impressed so far.

          :lol:

        • Greg

          Thank you for coming back Pix.

          Now that i have your attention, what do you make of this interesting coincidence?

          http://paideiaclassicalchristian.com/about/our-vision-and-name/

          Greek Chi-Rho symbol ? P i x ?

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Rho

          What sort of subterfuge is this? Should we keep going?

          I knew smelled something more under the covers than an old fish.

    • Pix

      ignis fatuus ““Maybe it’s a cultural thing with Icelanders.”

      Icelanders do all sorts of weird things like claim a belief in Elves. Mostly as a means of preventing unwanted development by nasty international American corporations.

      Pix = választás = picks. as in critic, picks holes. But it just goes to show how mistaken I was in overestimating peoples ability to get the connection. It’s something I can live with, what’s your problem?

      • Pix

        The fact you call yourself ‘ignis fatuus’ but try to wind me up about Pix, is absolutely effin hilarious.

        ignis fatuus = latin for ‘wisp’.

        :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

      • ignis fatuus

        My problem is that you are a world-class, pathological liar.

        So much so, in fact, that I do consider the possibility that you suffer from some form of congenital defect. You actually do seem to believe your own lies. Or, if your intent is to amuse yourself by engaging in endless and meaningless dialogue on a variety of topics, you do well. Upon first impression, your demeanor indicates one who might even be worth hearing. But all façades fade fast, in this instance, and upon closer inspection you are revealed. You are the academic equivalent to Potemkin Village. There is no substance between the curtains or behind the glass; there are only figurines and mannequins in otherwise vacant chambers.

        And since such little you say has even the slightest connection with reality, even people of moderate to sub-average intellect will swiftly arrive at the truth of the situation, which is that you do lie. Do you think there are participants here who haven’t figured you out yet? I doubt very much if it is so. And if it is, it is very temporary. So again, I am in a quandary as to your true purpose for being here, and if I have a problem, it is only that. The truth about you is not what you tell us it is. For the second time today, I will say to someone: You are almost worth studying; just not for the reasons you think.

        • ignis fatuus

          Nor do I recall ever once remarking about your screen name or its meaning, so my bewilderment only deepens.

        • Greg

          I’ll explain the strange tangent of blaming you for winding him up about the name.

          His fading masculinity set up a tiny straw man in order to soundly knock it down and be a hero in his own mind instead of facing the many obvious elephants in the room.

          “defect” confirmed

          Note: Subject has no processor, missing AC passion and DC dongle and full of Lie-ware
          Recommended UNFIT for teaching facilities and useless for Zeta Class pleasure model duties.

    • Mayhem

      @Pix: I saw your claim of beating Beef Supreme and I’m here to add my insignificant voice to the others that speak against you. What a load of tommy rot.

      Some of us have been lurking around here long enough to know what’s what despite the lies that you tell yourself. You are nearly alone in believing your nonsense.

      You are hardly worth our time and your only tactic is to keep repeating yourself in the hope “we” wont always be here to call you on it.

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