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Very Weird, Is This How Homosexuals Will Be Accepted By The Church?

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VERY WEIRD, IS THIS HOW HOMOSEXUALS WILL BE ACCEPTED BY THE CHURCH?

 

THE MIND BLOWING STORY OF LONNIE FRISBEE – READ THIS BEFORE YOU WATCH

 

You may not have heard of Lonnie Frisbee but you will never forget him if after reading this. Calvary Chapel would probably not even be known today if he had not been a part of their beginning. Frisbee was also very instrumental in the growth of the Vineyard movement.

THE POWER THAT WAS ON HIM SEEMS UNDENIABLE

Frisbee was the “Hippie Preacher” who joined Calvary Chapel and brought thousands into the fledging church. His meetings were very powerful. Hundreds would begin to speak in tongues for the first time as he just pointed at them or laid his hands on them. A man in the film described what it was like when Frisbee pointed at him. He said something begin to happen that he could not explain.

Frisbee reportedly healed people miraculously.  He supposedly healing a blind person and cast out a demon from woman with the result of instant healing of her mouth sores.

He would baptise hoards of people in a scene that looks for all the world like John the Baptist.

LONNIE FRISBEE WAS A PRACTICING CLOSET HOMOSEXUAL WHO DIED FROM AIDS

The Pope is saying that homosexuals have “gifts and talents” that are a benefit to the church. Christian musicians are coming out of the woodwork in favor of accepting same-sex relations. Some well known Christian musicians have “come out of the closet” and admitted they were homosexual. In this documentary Chuck Smith’s son seems to be going along with the “tolerance for gays” mantra.

Chuck Smith’s son said that Frisbee just “got caught”. He said, and he should know, that many charismatic preachers are homosexual, they just haven’t “been caught”.

I am accused of being closed-minded and intolerant because I believe that church leadership is limited to men who have only have one living wife. You watch, within seven years I will be accused of the same thing for believing what the word of God says about homosexuality.

WHEN WILL THE NEXT LONNIE FRISBEE COME ALONG WITH UNDENIABLE CHARISMA AND POWER TO FURTHER THIS AGENDA?

Daniel 11:37 YLT And unto the God of his fathers he (Antichrist) doth not attend, nor to the desire of women, yea, to any god he doth not attend, for against all he magnifieth himself.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 DBY whose coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and signs and wonders of falsehood,

 

“TELL ME WHAT THE WORLD IS SAYING TODAY AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT THE CHURCH WILL BE SAYING IN SEVEN YEARS.” Francis Schaeffer

Mike Clinton Hiawassee, Ga. USA  https://www.facebook.com/michael.clinton.148

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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    Total 163 comments
    • Pix

      “You watch, within seven years I will be accused of the same thing for believing what the word of God says about homosexuality.”

      Why wait, your’e a bigot through and through, cherry picking the bits that fit your bigoted draconian beliefs. The bible makes no mention about homosexuality, it says, “men should not lie with men the same as they lie with women”. It’s another way of saying ‘bro’s before ho’s’. According to the bible men can marry as many women as they like and have as many inhouse hookers as they like, the bible is not monogamistic in any way and even includes incest and rape as being perfectly ok. But wearing mixed fabrics and eating shell fish deserves death. As I said you are cherry picking the bits thats fit your bigotry and hatred of people who are different. The fact you are singling out homosexuality proves you are very primitive in outlook and suffering from ‘green monkey syndrome’.

      • Pix

        Basically if you need a dark age book full of draconian barbarianism in order to be a good person, it’s empathy you lack not belief.

        • Damien

          But it YOUR rabid asceticism that the religious fundies are agreeing with. From haters only hate can come and so it comes with al desparate furries rights activists.

        • Pix

          Μήδεια

          “But it YOUR rabid asceticism that the religious fundies are agreeing with.”

          If you have an opinion on what third party consenting adults are doing in private, then you are the pervert. Legislating and lobbying governments over it is psychotically perverted. And it’s not asceticism but the complete opposite, live and let live. Your religious indoctrination and values applies to you as something to practice, not for you to dictate what other people can or can’t do.

        • Damien

          Spiritual or progressive (culturally marxist)

          The monks in the 13th century encouraged the religious ascetics to starve themselves to death. They would consume nothing for days on end except drops of water, they would also eat things that weren’t fit for human consumption (trees, bark, poisonous berries etc) to upset their stomachs, then they would spit it out in disgust. They were obsessed with purity and used religion as an excuse. They said it would bring them closer to God and the saints. Their hair would fall out (the saints were bald) and they would collapse in a corner due to heart failure or some other health crisis.

          They were very isolated (stuck in rooms and often locked up), psychotic and they had prophecies about the future, many claimed they could time travel (some said before they died ‘I’ll see you in the future and you will be the one in pain’, mumbling because they were so starved they could barely talk, and some ascetics would wail and chant all day, it was like a psych ward, crusts of bread would scare them and they would be reduced to an incoherent mess because if they ate them, they’d believe they were failing the Gods), they would sit in the corner and talk to themselves but claim they were carrying on conversations with saints, Gods and spirits. They cut themselves because there was an association made between suffering and spiritual rewards, and throw offspring (dead children) into the fire as sacrifices, the ascetics were raped.

          The ascetics had visions and hallucinations (loosely related to identity loss in powerful people and the personality traits of powerful people). It was a power struggle in a society within a religious context where God was used as a weapon to control the masses. Status and recognition (within the hierarchies that existed within the culture- ‘every dog has its day’) are (and were) incentives or trade offs for the submission TO power. E.g. The afore mentioned ascetics were elevated to positions of power but they were powerless in the eyes of the monks and their religious hierarchies. The dead bodies of the ascetics were put in bags and buried under trees. The bones and organs made great compost for the trees.

          —————-

          It’s the utter degradation of the scene; the squalor, defecation, hashish, the pus-filled wounds on the backs of the holy men, pilgrims pushing and crowding into temples where a sweetish stench dominates–all that, plus the dead.

          Paul Claudel once wrote to friends, during his travels and ambassadorships in the Far East, that oriental religion is the devil’s invention. In these ecumenical times one is not supposed to say such things. Yet that is my inescapable conclusion. The faith of the worshippers is, without any doubt, sincere, even fervent….But the objects of worship are brutal, inhuman deities who know how to scare, punish, avenge, mock and cheat, not to elevate and forgive; and the environment surrounding the worshippers repels rather than attracts: horrid, grimacing idols with cunning or cruel stares; incredibly gaudy vulgarity, copulating monkeys, defacating cows, mud, stench, garbage. Hippies are drawn to this witches’ brew, and the reason is not far to find.

          What attracts and keeps them here is the degradation: of reason, of self-esteem, of vital forces, of faith in God and man. Here they find innumerable gods and none at all; everybody may do this thing just like the monkeys and the cows, sinking slowly toward the Ganges or Nirvana. Intelligence and purposefulness dissolve on the trashheap, the body rots until it becomes one with the road, the grass, the dung. The great nothingness envelops all, and the ashes go into the river.

      • Mike Clinton

        Pix, you are the one cherry picking. The Bible has a lot more to say about homosexuals than that one verse. Then, all your comments come from the Old Testament and you ignore what Jesus had to say about those very issues. Jesus said that God tolerated that behavior because of the hardness of their hearts but God’s plan has always been one woman, one man, for life.

        • Sheep Herder 1

          Pix,
          There is NO negotiating or ‘educating” those that CHOOSE the “Greatest Disease of the Mind” ever conjured up out of the criminal con-man minds of ALL MALES ……….judeo-christo-SCUMDUMB!
          :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
          Being brain-washed-from-birth can cause PERMANENT mental instability and irreparable brain injury……………….FOR LIFE!!!!!
          :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
          But, do not fret about it, Pix, as I, their #1 sheep herder has willed that they that use my name, that use my “believed to be” image, that judge in my name, that speak in my name, that interpret my words in my name, all of these “jesus freaks” my mentally retarded (from birth) SHEEP, they will continue to languish here, in hell, which is what earth is………….HELL………… and continue to SUFFER GREATLY!!!
          :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
          Who says that I do not have a sense of humor???
          :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

        • 0 Sum

          Quote: “Who says that I do not have a sense of humor???”

          That crap you try to pass off as professional photography proves you are a clown with a real sense of humor.

        • Net-in-YAHOO Says

          Zero scum
          Chris really does like you.
          :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:
          He protects you, too!
          :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
          You ARE chris!!!!
          That is why, like a herpes sore, you just keep on comin back again, and again, and again on the Body of BIN!!!!!!
          Good to see you back on BIN, BS!

        • 0 Sum

          You know it’s funny….

          Both the smelly racist Pink Slime (Msg Chicken) troll and now you have started calling me Chris at the same time.

          Strange strategy…. avoid the finger pointing at yourself by claiming other people are you.

          Just offer me a job and get it over with. I want to sit in the TMZ style semi-circle while you wave your bloated sausage hands around and direct the conspiracy news.

          Come on.. you know I’m a demon like you. We were meant to be together.

        • HughJorgen

          Please help me follow. You say that God chose Frisbee. He gave powers to a hippie preacher that clearly showed that he was a prophet (or saint depending on the flavor of Christianity). You have a problem because He bestowed this on a queer and fear that if He does it again, they will expect a place in the Church. Are you saying the the Creator needs to check with you before He anoints someone? YOU DISGUST ME.

          Please reply because I’m seriously curious about your logic.

        • am123

          It figures Pix opened the door of darkness and barging in with him is his buddy, the master of multiple IDs: Sheep Herder 1, Net-in-YAHOO Says, etc. who apparently does have a sense of humor:

          “That is why, like a herpes sore, you just keep on comin back again, and again, and again on the Body of BIN”

          :lol:

        • Pix

          Your religious indoctrination and values applies to you as something to practice, not for you to dictate what other people can or can’t do. If you make what other people do in private, your personal business, then you are the pervert.

          The bible says a great many contradictory things, have you stoned anyone to death recently for eating shell fish, wearing mixed fabrics or getting a divorce? NO? Then STFU and MYOB

          :lol:

      • am123

        “The bible makes no mention about homosexuality”

        You might as well say the bible makes no mention of murder or stealing.

        But if one defines homosexuality to mean a guy sticking his you know what you know where in an act of sodomy, then the bible has plenty to say about homosexuality. But to make a long story short and to give you the bottom line, perversion ends up in the lake of fire.

        • Damien This comment has received too many negative votes.Show
      • Dustdevil

        Pix, from an ABSOLUTE ATHEISTIC point of view, HOMOSEXUALITY IS ILLOGICAL, and is validity of the point that it is a ‘mental aberration and blatant defect’ of the mind.

        How do I get to that defined point? Sex (in the absolute scientific viewpoint) serves the single interest of procreation to continue the species. If you are not an asexual species, sex is used to propagate the next generation. PERIOD. In the animal world, homosexuality leads to ABSOLUTE EXTINCTION. No animal (non-sentient) that accepts a homosexual preference continues to exist. PERIOD. It is a mental defect, that purely by evolution standards, is intentionally designed to eliminate itself from the population. Even when overt sexual drive in any given animal provokes it to be non-selective (read: bisexual), it is immediately at a DISADVANTAGE to the species (bucks that tend to select bucks often end up severely wounded, and at a survival disadvantage to the whole).

        You CANNOT successfully argue against the perspective of HOMOSEXUALITY being NATURAL, no more than cancer being ‘natural’. While it does OCCUR in nature, it is not ‘linear-nature’, as it cannot replicate itself. It is the mental equivalent of ‘Shaker-religion’ (i.e.: you must deviate from the faith to propagate the faith, hence, it is not a faith but a defect).

        Combine this with recent Harvard studies that have defined :Homosexuality may indeed be an ingrained preference from birth, but after studying hundreds of samples from the population, we are without sample (can’t find a sample) of anyone born ‘bisexual’, and thus, seems that bisexuality appears to be more of a bohemian choice than an actual assignment preference.’

        In other words, homosexuality is a mental defect, possibly due to genetics (hence, why it doesn’t leave any animal species that exhibits it) but it borders on proven-fact that bisexuality is a ‘bohemian choice’ and most-likely driven by an overt-lust state in each individual that exhibits it. (i.e.: bisexuals could be considered those that ‘will take it anyway they can get it).

        Both are derelict of the standard, which is an opposite-but-equal breeding pair, which is required for propagation of the species. Therefore, Homosexuality is a DEFECT, not a pride-point.

        NOTE – at no time did I reference imaginary or inferred deities or forces beyond those measurable in the natural world. To refute what I have just stated, you must refute the ground foundation of the rules set forth by Darwin in the concept of Evolution.

        IN FACT – TO DISPROVE HOMOSEXUALITY AS A DEFECT, YOU MUST DISCREDIT EVOLUTION!

        • Damien This comment has received too many negative votes.Show
        • Pix

          “Dustdevil
          Pix, from an ABSOLUTE ATHEISTIC point of view, HOMOSEXUALITY IS ILLOGICAL, and is validity of the point that it is a ‘mental aberration and blatant defect’ of the mind.”

          Wrong. It’s a common c10% of the population natural variation, same rate as twins or left handedness and common to all species. The fact that it occurs in all species, proves it is not a conscious choice and thus not morally deviant.

          If you are going to claim that sexuality is a choice, then when did you choose?

        • Pix

          Μήδεια
          @Dustdevil

          What you’re failing to comprehend DD is that Pix wants people to go to hell (as it were). From it’s point of view gaytheism is as beautiful as cancer in others.”

          It’s not your remit to choose for other people. There is no such place as hell, other than the one you create on Earth for yourself and those having to live with you. Calling someone an IT is extremely rude, but I guess that’s the best you can come up with as reply and exactly what I’ve come to expect from the indoctrinated into hate. I have no opinion on sexualtiy other than ‘live and let live’. You are correct that one person will see homosexuality as beautiful, while others will see it as a cancer. But at the end of the day, it is THEIR life, NOT yours. You only have YOUR life, so I suggest you stop brown nosing other peoples lives and live your own.

        • Damien

          Wrong. It’s a common c10% of the population natural variation, same rate as twins or left handedness and common to all species. The fact that it occurs in all species, proves it is not a conscious choice and thus not morally deviant.

          If you are going to claim that sexuality is a choice, then when did you choose?

          ============

          It is about 1.4% of the population. Furries – if Japan is anything to go by – are probably more common.

          ———————

          If you are going to claim that sexuality is a choice, then when did you choose?

          ====================

          To a large degree it is determined by exposure to gay sex when underage.

          But of course it is ‘natural’ it is just that THAT is not saying very much.

        • Pix

          Μήδεια “It is about 1.4% of the population.”

          There are no definitive surveys to claim any such figure. 10% is the average natural mutational deviation rate, homosexuality is a natural deviation caused not by genetics but by the process itself, which is subject to external influences, diet, pollution, medication, viruses, stress, etc. Each pregnancy has to work it out from scratch, which is why we are all unique, why there is a range of differences. Eg, colour ranges from deep black to albino, height from midget to giant, sexuality from obvious external physical differences, male or female and in between ie hermaphrodites, and the not so obvious internal physical differences, of which the average variation for all is c10%.

        • am123

          Pix said:

          “It’s a common c10% of the population natural variation, same rate as twins or left handedness and common to all species.”

          If you think that 10% of all lions, wolves, hawks, bears, zebras, etc. are gay, then you need to watch Nat Geo or Animal Planet more. The males of the species don’t mate with other males, they fight with other males for the right to mate with the females of the species.

        • am123

          Pix said:

          “If you are going to claim that sexuality is a choice, then when did you choose?”

          Being gay is a choice, but being straight is not a choice. People are born straight, as that is the normal, default condition. So for straights, that is just the way they are, there isn’t a choice that comes into play. For gays however, at some point in their lives, due to external things, they are enticed by spirits of perversion and they choose to engage in things that ought not to be done, unnatural things. But the Good News is they can be set free from these spirits of perversion by inviting Jesus into their hearts. Then the grace of Jesus will change them from the inside out—spirit, soul, and body. So they can pray the gay away. It is a spiritual problem that must be dealt with spiritually.

        • Pix

          Μήδεια

          “To a large degree it is determined by exposure to gay sex when underage. But of course it is ‘natural’ it is just that THAT is not saying very much.”

          Total bs. I know 3 homosexual men, none had any contact with gay sex when uderage. One of them was obviously gay but his father threw him out age 16 to fend for himself, we housed, fed and got him to school for 6 months before his father cooled off and grew a heart. Another was a school friend of my son, (who is not a homosexual) also had no contact with other homosexuals, his parents are both medical doctors. The other one is older, also obviously gay, but the elderly Christians in the village love him for who he is, were in fact proud of him coming out with it when he was a youngster. I really don’t see what your problem is, it’s not like it has anything to do with you or affects your life in any way, why can’t you learn to leave other people alone?

        • Pix

          am123

          “Being gay is a choice, ..” No it isn’t, you have absolutely no evidence. You would like to believe they have a choice because you love to hate people who are different or disagree. Which is a very primitive unevolved reaction called ‘green monkey syndrome”.

          Green monkey syndrome is where you remove the leader of a troop of monkeys, paint green, put back with the troop of monkeys, stand back and watch the troop tare their leader to bits for being different.

        • Sheep Herder 1

          Am123, run your mouth like that on the street, and I bet you get beat to a pulp!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
          Would LOVE to be there to watch and give encouragement to your “justice deliverer”!!! grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

          There IS ONLY ONE “GROUP” TO BLAME for the current THUG government, here, in the united Fascist states of MILITARY TERROR they have created AND FASHIONED.

          :evil: christians :twisted:

          the most LEECHING special interest group that has ever existed here, in the united Fascist states of MILITARY TERROR!!
          :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:
          And these despicable “christian” leeches send their young adults off to die on the whim of their WAR CRIMINAL “Leaders”!!!!!!!!!
          :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
          LET amerika, the VIOLENT HOARDING nation, FALL and break into 50 separate, unconnected pieces!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

        • 0 Sum

          Pix sure seems defensive on this “natural gay” stance.

          Even the master is on here to defend her choice.. er I mean thoughts.. on her various confirmed insights into the activities of the gay community.

          DustDevil sure stirs up Pix’s ire with this factual gem

          “IN FACT – TO DISPROVE HOMOSEXUALITY AS A DEFECT, YOU MUST DISCREDIT EVOLUTION!”

          P.S. Suck on it Pix. You’ve been pwnd in public again.

        • Damien

          @Pix

          10% is the average natural mutational deviation rate,

          ======================

          What’s the average murder rate in any collective mammalian group? And do I also get to decide who is ‘essentially’ a murderer and whose stuff I get or is that your state government again?

          —————————-

          I have no more problem (other than personal coldness or laziness or whatever) to homosexual acts than I have to people masturbating or wearing mixed clothing. It gets a little bit more complicated when it comes to gay as a lifestyle as it might impact on so much more of a persons life (especially if the person is young anyway). Some would be enraged at any thought or comment along the lines of “Oh that’s just young people” for example and expect anyone not themselves to shut up or rot in prison.

          Which is a point. You hate free speech. You don’t mind ‘privacy of peoples homes’ as an argument but only when it wins a point that will move you closer to your greater prison state fantasy.

          Angry at any tradition amongst plebs older than half a week long.

        • Pix

          am123

          ” People are born straight, as that is the normal, default condition.”

          You are looking at it all wrong. Yes, it the norm to be born straight, but not for everyone. For an extremely obvious external physical example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite

          We are not all the same like robots made in a factory, we are all unique from each other, some more so than others. You cannot bully people because of the way they were born. All this new legislation being forced on you, is your own fault for making it such an issue. If you continue to refuse to desist from inciting hatred of people for the way they were born, you will be legislated against until you are forced to act like a human being or face jail.

          It’s your choice at the end of the day, you can comply with your countries secular law put in place to protect everyone equally, or carry on being a barbaric slanderous hate inciting terrorist and end up in jail. *shrugs*

        • Pix

          Μήδεια
          @Pix

          What’s the average murder rate in any collective mammalian group?

          If you mean in human groups, Christianity is well over represented in jail per percentage of population. On the other had Atheists are under represented. Does that prove that Christians are more lawless than other groups? Does it prove that Atheists are more law abiding? I think yes to both.

        • am123

          @ Sheep Herder 1,

          Shouldn’t you be in class? Or have they let the kids out early today?

          :lol: :lol: :lol:

        • am123

          Just like pedophiles are not born that way, but are made that way, homosexuals are not born that way, but are made that way.

        • Anonymous

          Gen: 1 26 -27, 2: 7. 21-25. have mercy as i have had mercy on you.

      • Lion Of Judah

        Nothing you say about the bible is true, you’re making that up. Homosexuality is a sin, its repeated many times, no one is perfect, but the bible predicts people turning away from that thinking and parading their sin as if there’s nothing wrong. Thats the issue, its not bigotry, its what God tells us, it is wrong. One man is to marry one women and it is a very special and serious relationship, not a joke that you make it to be. You are so ignorant to the bible please stop talking about what’s “in the bible” . You are blind to truth because you love sin and love this world, our creator hates this world and will change it for good after the day of judgement, but the bible says, you cannot love God and love the world and the ways of the world. God bless you.

      • Anonymous

        You are quoting the OT ! & the OT God is SATAN… See when “he” say to the “chosen” Kill them all, Kill all the men. Kill all the women. Kill all the children, even kill their cattle. You shall not suffer to let anyone live!
        OT.. God.. All forgiving & loving?? I see SATAN there…
        BTW I am a CHRISTIAN ! Not a JUDEO-christian ! :wink:

    • freedom007

      could it not be that the real intention of Jesus was not to preach the Law of Moses but to ONCE FULLY FULFIL IT HIMSELF

      so that it could finally be CHANGED, EASED, AFTER HIS SACRIFICE
      in order to fit better to our all-too-weak human nature
      and, even more, to the true nature of God
      who is a REALLY GOOD FATHER
      and not only a provincial dictator who wants us to call him a good father to flatter his ego?

      If this hypothesis were true, it would be only logical
      that this secretly homosexual Christian minister did his miracles BY THE POWER OF JESUS
      and not by the power of some evil spirit.

      Remember that the Pharisees hypothesized that Jesus Himself was doing his miracles “by Belzebul the King of Demons” as the Gospel literally says.

      “Do not judge and condemn – or you will be judged and condemned yourself (by God), for in the same way you measure, you will be measured yourselves” This is what Jesus really taught.

      He did not teach us to condemn ourselves and others by using the all-too-strict and one-sided Law of Moses.
      It was the Pharisees who did so.
      And remember how Jesus described THEM! Blind leaders, hypocrites, clean outside and dirty inside.

      Do not eat of the Leaven of the Pharisees!

      Eat the clean Matzes of the Sermon on the Mountain and
      thank God
      for His miraculous power to do miracles thru poor sinners. In GOD nothing is impossible.

      • Damien

        It’s Jewish law. Jewish Christians still practiced Mosaic law and Abrahamic covenant..

        • Truthseeker

          mrjoeia –freedom007

          So the Jews came up with the LAW of God — The HOLY RIGHTEOUS LAW of GOD —Really???

          By what Law were Adam and Eve judged sinners in the Garden??
          What Law and what commandments did Abraham obey??
          When the king took Abraham’s wife Sarah and then admonished Abraham because if the king took Sarah to wife it would have caused the king to SIN?? What is Sin???

          Claiming the HOLY LAW of GOD is Jewish is just another way of rejecting God and refusing to obey the Creator God.

          If the Law is now void God has no basis upon which to judge the world thus the end times can not come— but they will and soon

          Our leaders here in America now have 12 months to repent of transgressing the Holy Law of God and return this nation to obeying our Creator — they will not!!!

          beginning September 2015 our God will walk contrary to the nations of Israel — IN FURY
          and they will all be destroyed, only 10% will remain alive.

        • Damien

          @Truthseeker

          By that logic god made all laws. But specifically the laws of the old testament were made for the seed of Abraham. Abraham could probably be thought of as following the Noahide laws. What god does not do is mix things misceginate things. Such as you are dreaming of (Muricans taking the place of Israel)

        • Truthseeker

          mrjoeia

          Just watch what will occur during the next 12 months and then watch how my Father will walk contrary to all the nations of Israel after September.

          This is not a firm date “but” my ‘guess’ is when the Fed meets in January 2015 they will begin the financial crash of America’s financial house.

          What is soon coming upon the whole House of Israel is called by Jeremiah “The Time of Jacob’s Trouble”.

      • Mike Clinton

        Freedom007 Matthew 7: 22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    • freedom007

      Mike, in fact no one can know for sure whether he/she will be judged or blessed in the end, for our enormous human short-sightedness and for the huge amoujnt of disinfo that we all habitually live with. Jesus did say what you quoted but he also said what I quoted. What applies to whom, and what wieighs more? GOD ONLY CAN JUDGE, HE ONLY KNOWS GOOD FROM BAD, but one thing is for sure he IS a GOOD father. One who UNDERSTANDS.

      • Mike Clinton

        freedom007

        You said “Mike, in fact no one can know for sure whether he/she will be judged or blessed in the end”.

        Don’t you think that is a little late to find out?

        • CrowPie

          Mike……I just love your last question, as it goes to the heart of why so many try so hard to be so “right” why it comes to arguments on scripture.

          But the fact is…….Only God can judge, as Freedom007 stated. So our job is to do as Christ commanded.

          And what did HE Say? What did CHRIST say?

          Everyone worries so much about what the rest of the bible says….they stop concentrating on What CHRIST said.

          “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in my vineyard.’ He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir’ but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his Father?” They said to him, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that the tax collectors and the harlots enter the kingdom of God before you” (Mathew 21: 28-31.)

    • freedom007

      Mike, dont you think the Inquisitors – for example, or the Crusaders who massacred Muslims and Eastern Christians to “free Jerusalem from the Heathen” , really thought to do the work of God while committing Murder over and over…
      only to know after death !!! that they had been misguided!?

      I do not think misguided souls will be damned…
      I either do not believe in Eternal Hell. I believe in reincarnation and that in the Beyond the souls not only repose from the toil and trouble of incarnated existence but also receive education and information for their next shift of work on Earth.

      I believe in the Divinity of Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mountain, in the Resurrection of Jesus, in God as the Creator and the Father, in collecting treasures in Heaven by doing good, and in the Kingdom of God to come. So far I think like a Christian. About some other points I think according to other spiritual sources. Syncretist you may call it.

      See, you wont call me a Christian and probably you will think now I am on the wrong side.
      Others do the same to you I suppose, for other reasons.
      The majority of Christians still do this to each other every day.

      But I dare look forward to the moment when we will see both of us, or, with regard to Christianity, almost all of us (no matter how imperfect some parts of our lives had perhaps been) really worked for Jesus and His purpose.

      This dream of meeting as brethren in the future Kingdom of Jesus
      can never be more than a hope
      but one got to keep it up to ward off despair.

    • Truthseeker

      The god of this whole entire world can do many “miracles, he can make a swine appear as a lamb he himself can appear as a holy angel of light. He is a liar and the father of lies and deceptions.

      Satan has deceived the whole world and is about to do his best to destroy every man and women off the face of this earth. Almighty God’s plan will stand and Satan will not.

      There are two coming that will do many “miracles” and cause the world to worship and to obey them: Our soon coming King will cast them into the Lake of Fire.

    • HotFish

      Homosexuality will be accepted when its occult power is acknowledged by the public.

      Astral project thru your childs anus they’ll say. No kidding.

    • am123

      “IS THIS HOW HOMOSEXUALS WILL BE ACCEPTED BY THE CHURCH?”

      Sounds like a trick question Mike…

      …while homosexuals may be accepted in church, they will never be accepted by THE CHURCH, if you get my drift :wink:

      And I know you do :wink: :lol:

      After all, anyone who reads the Bible knows perversion ends up in the lake of fire with you know who :twisted: and his angels.

      • Pix

        That’s why most Christians will be burning in hell because none of them practice the laws of the bible. Either way you’ll end up in hell, either an earthly one in a jail for murdering people as ordered, or in the after life for not murdering people as ordered. As I keep saying, you are damned if you do, and double damned if you don’t.

        :mad: :lol:

    • Mayhem

      G733- ἀρσενοκοῖται- arsenokoitai- bumhole is not for sex- 1 Cor 6:9- What confusion?

      • Damien This comment has received too many negative votes.Show
      • Pix

        arsenokoitai is a reference to shrine prostitutes, specifically those employed by Mithra followers at Easter. A rather wild affair in their subterranean temples, which always makes me laugh at Easter when the Pope is giving his pep talk, that below his feet in the subterranean Mithraic temple, that a wild orgy used to take place on that very spot.

        :lol:

      • Mayhem

        Thank you for the opportunity to acknowledge my error. G733 does not mean bum sex and I see how I made it look that way. And you’re only partially correct yourself, Μήδεια, arsenokoitai is best translated as “men in a marriage bed”, plural, but variously translated as homosexuals.

    • Andoron

      Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

      Romans 1:18-27 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

      • Pix

        Exactly, Leviticus is talking about men lying to men the same as they lie to women, it’s another way of saying ‘Bro’s before Ho’s.’.

        Leviticus also dictates you stone people to death for eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabrics and getting a divorce, so unless you have stoned to death everyone you know who has broken those laws, you are a cherry picking hypocrite.

        :lol:

        • Mayhem

          The word for lying, Pix, is H8267: sheqer: falsehood. Whereas H7901: shakab: to lie down: is the word used in Leviticus 20:13.

          You are misleading folk with your half truth; as a Scholar and Gentleman I expect better from you.

        • Mayhem

          There goes my weak engrish again. I meant you being a scholar and gentleman not me. I’m a little of the second and none of the first.

    • STRAW

      The grate deception.. he comes as a light but is in total darkness he kills steals and destroys and the church of today is not light but deceived in darkness the greatest lie of the darkness is to make one think he is light Thank God for bringing light to destroy the darkness..

      • Beaver Hunter

        So Lonnie, the miraculous Homo-Hippie Evangelist, also threw Frisbees as number “69″ for the Green Bay Butt Packers and was AIDED by the Devil to “DO IT” in the darkness of a closet? I learn so much here.

    • Pix

      I think you guys need to regain your empathy for others and laugh about our infirmities, after all we all have imperfections, and celebrate our differences, because it’s our differences that make us outstanding, instead of trying to incite more hatred and the ensuing misery it’s going to cause.

      Enjoy :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fn4tnYonpw

    • The Real Deal

      I love women wayyy too much to be gay, and can’t understand how a man can look at another man the way i do women. But i don’t hate gay people, just don’t get the lifestyle.

      There are some gays that i look at and think, “this isn’t a guy…this is a woman who wound up in a man’s body”. You can just tell they’re women. But i never forget that even though they might be a woman in a man’s body, they still don’t have a vajayjay. lol

      • CrowPie

        I have people in my life that I grew up with….that I never would have guessed……that finally told me they were gay. I was surprised. But I loved them as my friends …..so…..while I don’t approve of the lifestyle…..I still don’t have the right to Judge (Only God can do that) and so…..things remain as they were before they told me.

        • The Real Deal

          Totally agree. I don’t have a problem with them. I just worry about myself. I wish them the best, lol.

        • Mayhem

          That’s an abridged version of the Truth, CrowPie, God does not say “thou shalt not judge.” He says “thou shalt not judge,”.

          When you read the passage in its entirety you can’t help but see that it is wise counsel against judging and not a command in the way that you put it.

        • CrowPie

          Matthew 7:1-5 – Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Read More…)

          Luke 6:37 – Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

          John 7:24 – Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

          James 4:11-12 – Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. (Read More…)

          James 4:12 – There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

          Romans 2:1-3 – Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. (Read More…)

          Ephesians 4:29 – Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

          Matthew 7:5 – Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

          Romans 14:1-13 – Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations. (Read More…)

          Matthew 7:1-2 – Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Read More…)

          John 8:7 – So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

          Matthew 7:1 – Judge not, that ye be not judged.

          Luke 6:31 – And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

          Matthew 6:14-15 – For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: (Read More…)

          Matthew 7:1-29 – Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Read More…)

          2 Corinthians 5:10 – For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

          Galatians 5:14 – For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

          Proverbs 31:9 – Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

          Luke 6:37-42 – Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: (Read More…)

          1 Corinthians 13:1-8 – Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (Read More…)

          John 3:17 – For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

          Romans 14:1 – Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

          James 1:26 – If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion [is] vain.

          1 Corinthians 2:15 – But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

          Titus 3:2-7 – To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. (Read More…)

          Romans 2:3 – And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

          Romans 12:16-19 – [Be] of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. (Read More…)

          Matthew 7:1-6 – Judge not, that ye be not judged. (Read More…)

          Isaiah 11:3 – And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

          Galatians 6:1 – Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

          Galatians 6:1-6 – Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. (Read More…)

        • Mayhem

          Did you forget the link, CrowPie? was this it?

          http://www.openbible.info/topics/

          Nearly all of those verses reinforce my argument when read completely yet all of them appear to say what you claim when unwisely abridged. Let us look to your first offering.

          You reference Matthew 7:1-5 but only cut-n-paste verse one. If you had read or posted the entirety of the passage we would see the words “For with what judgement ye judge ye shall be judged”. It is a warning against hypocrisy not a commandment against judging.

          Yes: we are given this warning several times but that is nowhere near the same thing as “thou shalt not judge”. What would be the point of warning, Israel, if there was a blanket ban on judging?

        • CrowPie

          I love how you concentrate on only that one verse instead of all the verses as a whole, which send a clear message….that you proudly and coldly refuse to hear or acknowledge.

          For instance:

          James 4:12 – There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

          Or:

          Galatians 5:14 – For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

          Or:

          John 3:17 – For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

          If Christ came Not to condemn……then who am I to Judge? And who are YOU to TRY to correct me on that conviction, or the verse that I base that conviction upon?

        • CrowPie

          I Went pretty easy on you in that last reply when I used the word “correct’…..because I think what you were trying to do was to convince me to be judgemental…….which I believe to be clearly against what is taught in the bible……

          And THAT is why you received so many verses from me…..YOU NEEDED them…as much as I DO.

          Judgement is clearly one of the most difficult sins to avoid as human beings and especially as Christians.

          I struggle with it daily. And I say all of this to you with LOVE and DEVOID of Judgement.

        • Mayhem

          That’s not fair, CrowPie, so quick with the name calling too. So then lets look to the rest of your prolific cut-n-past.

          Matthew 6:14-15 – is not applicable to the discussion. You state the Bible says “Thou shalt not Judge.” and i can find no such commandment. These verses are about forgiving and forgiveness.

          Matthew 7:1-5 – aligns with my position. As previously covered.

          Luke 6:31 – yes, CrowPie, but the point of referencing this to claim there is a commandment that reads “Thou shalt not judge” still escapes me.

          Luke 6:37-42 – this passage would be superfluous if there was a blanket commandment such as you are convinced exists. I’m positive you wouldn’t be claiming The Word is contradictory, rambling or redundant.

          John 3:17 – yes Jesus was sent to save and not to condemn and i get the point. And it is why i’m diligent regarding not being quick to judge others.

          John 7:24 – is an example of how we are to judge.

          John 8:7 – is a challenge. Not a commandment.

          James 1:26 – what’s this got to do with judgement?

          James 4:12 – is a reprove for all the judging James must have been witness to. I wasn’t there but he sure seems to be asking a question of the persecuted christians and not giving a command.

          Romans 2:1-3 – is a warning that judging others while being a sinner leads to condemnation. It is not a commandment as you would have it.

          Romans 12:16-19 – you’re just flinging about random stuff now, CrowPie.

          Romans 14:1 – only one of us is quarreling.

          Ephesians 4:29 – not sure why you include this in support of your claim.

          1 Corinthians 2:15 – this is about the wisdom of God and does not say “Only God can Judge” but that he most assuredly knows all things by judging all things.

          1 Corinthians 13:1-8 – again how does this validate your position?

          2 Corinthians 5:10 – yes we shall but how does this reinforce your point?

          Galatians 5:14 – and Matt 12:31 tells us that this is the second great commandment but it has nothing to do with judging above a very general reference.

          Galatians 6:1-6 – you may as well have simply stated the whole Bible supports your claim and been done with it.

          Proverbs 31:9 – see? When we judge we are to judge “righteously”.

          Titus 3:2-7 – beside your point once again.

          Isaiah 11:3 – you border on deceit to claim this supports you. Read on to verse 4 and try telling me that only God may judge. Who was the rod from the stem of Jes’-se, in whom was the spirit of Yahweh that he might judge righteously?

          Yes, CrowPie, we are taught not to judge in a foolhardy manner but you claimed there are commandments that we not to judge, period, and i say that you are cherry picking Scripture to make such a claim.

          I did not receive those verses from you. I got them from your search engine and whichever index finger you use to left click but now judging is a “sin”. Where does the Bible say that?

          Now then: don’t bother yourself with gentleness, blow a fuse for all that it matters to me. My love for you is not dependent upon how you feel about me. Having said that i’m aware there is a mutual respect between us.

          Who am i to point out your errors? I’m one of those spoken of in Hebrews 10:25, i hope. I am second and a sinner and you just got encouraged. Do with it as you will.

        • CrowPie

          What’s not fair? And please point out exactly what “name” I called you…….

          It’s obvious that you prefer to argue over the scriptures. I do not. I told you how I interpret the verses. I told how I see them as a whole.

          The very fact that It is repeated so many times should make it obvious. It does to me. But if you prefer to complicate the matter and turn it into specs and motes, I suppose that is your prerogative.

          As far as being loving, I made a statement about continuing to love a friend who admitted to being gay…I said that it was not my place to judge….and you jumped on me…..I suppose in the hopes that I would stop loving my oldest friend and begin to hate them. So I will leave you with this verse again…….stressing the ONE WORD aspect. (LOVE)

          Galatians 5:14 – For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

        • CrowPie

          BTW, I did not quote…..”"”Matthew 6:14-15 – is not applicable to the discussion. You state the Bible says “Thou shalt not Judge.” and i can find no such commandment. These verses are about forgiving and forgiveness.”"”"……as you say that I did…..

          the following is my original post…..”"”"while I don’t approve of the lifestyle…..I still don’t have the right to Judge (Only God can do that) and so…..things remain as they were before they told me.”"”"

        • CrowPie

          Mayhem, since you said you never could actually find the verse in the bible…….I’ll copy and paste a little reminder for you……

          YOU were the one who USED it……..then corrected me…..as if I had used it……. :lol:

          See :

          “”Mayhem

          That’s an abridged version of the Truth, CrowPie, God does not say “thou shalt not judge.” He says “thou shalt not judge,”.”"”

        • Mayhem

          Yes, CrowPie, your statement “I still don’t have the right to Judge (Only God can do that)” is what i am referring to. You could have simply denied that this is the same thing as saying “Thou shalt not judge.” but you didn’t, you defended yourself as if you had, in fact, said that very thing.

          Do you know what “abridged” means? I was not correcting you in as much as i was counselling that it is unsafe to place emphasis, on what is written, by clipping statements. This is called cherry picking.

          You ignored my question: it is Jesus that is referred to as the rod from the stem of Jesse and Isaiah prophesied that he was to judge with the righteousness of God. Yet you claim that John says the exact opposite , i fail to understand your argument altogether.

          As for my other question: where does the Scriptures say that judging is a “sin”? Perhaps you would read the Bible, for yourself, and refrain from accepting the interpretation of Bob Marley or 2Pac Shakur.

          You called me cold, prideful, willfully ignorant and pedantic did you not? And in my defense i am only two of those things. With all due respect i object to being painted in such poor light. I consider it unfair that you accuse me of “concentrate[ing] on only that one verse instead of all the verses as a whole” when i had merely begun with your first offering. I have till kingdom comes, or my demise, to go through this point by point with you, CrowPie, because these discussions are of benefit to mine own studies.

          Now then: quid pro quo, bia, where do you get the idea that i am trying to convince you to be judgmental? My entire discourse is centered on the pitfalls of judging, others, when our own house is in disarray.

          It remains that we are warned about being hypocritical and not commanded against judging. And no matter how much you twist and turn you cannot support the notion that god said “Thou shalt not judge”.

        • Mayhem

          I said…

          “And it is why i’m diligent regarding not being quick to judge others.”

          .. and here is my testimony.

          On the handful of occasions that gay’s have hit on me they all thanked me for handling the situation in a forthright but gentle manner. I’m flattered they find me attractive enough to take a punt but point out that i’m straight and not interested. And, in all seriousness, it couldn’t be about my obvious hotness but much more likely to do with their desperation.

        • CrowPie

          Oh, and congrats on your being hit on in the gay community. :lol: (Your not the only one, you know……)

          It’s just like being hit on by anyone else……..

        • HumanBeing

          “it couldn’t be about my obvious hotness but much more likely to do with their desperation.”

          The ladies of BIN would like you to present photographical evidence of said hotness. :cool:

        • Mayhem

          Whew i’m glad i’m not the only one who gets hit on by the gays. I had worried about what signals i’d been giving off. If you knew of the rampant homophobia that exists in New Zealand you would have given me a gold star for my merit board, CrowPie.

        • Mayhem

          Er we might have different opinions on what constitutes hotness, Human Being. I’m a grey haired ball of scar tissue, wrinkles and tattoos and fast becoming decrepit due to working hard these last 30 odd years. Forty years of smoking, drinking and motorcycling haven’t done me any favours either. Yeah baby, yeah.

        • CrowPie

          It’s not a signal thing……it’s just a ‘you happen to be their type’ thing. Don’t sweat it…..I don’t. :lol:

        • 0 Sum

          You know… When I went to New Zealand with the cadets we always ran into trouble with the locals. Could be a cultural thing….

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlGclIZV5JQ

        • HumanBeing

          I thought you wanted me to mind my own business, but then you keep talking to me.

          Anyway, here is the quote re. sources:
          “Did you forget the link, CrowPie? was this it?
          http://www.openbible.info/topics/

          Nobody is saying they didn’t know you got the references from the Bible.

        • CrowPie

          Mayhem,

          As I stated I don’t (normally) argue over scripture. You only attacked MY belief, which is loving and supported by scripture…..I practice discernment and refrain from judgement because I am never in a righteous state. I also stated that I have “sullied myself in this whole sorry mess,” another acknowledgement that I (and no human) can ever be in a righteous state.

          It is the “assusmption’ that you can judge righteously in a ‘righteous state’ that makes your belief incorrect in ‘my opinion.’

          Once again……If you and your friends feel as if you are all righteous……knock yourselves out.

          Titus 1:6 – If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. (The word ‘unruly’ is also interpreted as contentious.)

        • Mayhem

          This is what you are calling an attack, CrowPie…

          “That’s an abridged version of the Truth, CrowPie,”

          … let it go already.

        • CrowPie

          Mayhem,

          When I want your petty opinion, I will forward it to you.

        • Mayhem

          Is this an example of your non contentious nature, Precious? No hard feelings, my friend, and i’ll not take up any more of your time.

        • HumanBeing

          “You clearly want to do the judging…..which is not your job. At this point…I think you should stop teaching…..and go do some re-learning.”

          Such hypocrisy… such JUDGING of others inappropriately… such a control freak.

          Happily, I don’t take orders or judgments from the likes of you. I will go on teaching, because error like yours abounds. I will go on opposing bad logic, bad exegesis, and blatant double standards like yours, because Satan would love nothing more than to shut me up. I will continue my learning FROM THE BIBLE, not blind Pharisees like you who think yourselves perfect in understanding.

          Revile me all you like; join arms with the other infallible interpreter to condemn a fellow believer in front of the world; have a good laugh at my expense. But understand that you cannot and will not shut me up. I loathe the stench of this place, but for now, this is nonetheless a mission field, and you will not stop me from carrying out my assignment.

        • CrowPie

          Discernment is NOT a tolerance of sin.

          My statements toward you have been about your interpretation of the scriptures, just as your statements toward me have been about MY interpretation of the scriptures. NOT Judgements or condemnations.

          I am NOT the one who started this very touchy discussion, and you and am123 entered into it without invitation.

          You seem to have made the ‘assumption’ that because I did not constantly quote scripture or use $4 words (I can….I just don’t, because Christ didn’t in his teachings)…….that I was some hack that did not know my way around a Bible.

          Rest assured…..I do. I will not be told that my personal interpretations/nuances are wrong by someone on the internet…..especially when I have a great deal of personal experience that tells me I am right.

          You three set out to tell me I am wrong……..You never heard the words I said…Like discernment. Which should have spoken volumes to a lover of the word.

        • HumanBeing

          “And you really need to grasp that what we are doing and saying is on the internet for the whole world to read…….”

          Take your own advice. Stop the snide remarks and hypocrisy of JUDGING people for judging. Try and read what we actually said, too. And to discern is to judge. You erroneously think that judge means condemn, which it does not, since only God has the authority to do that.

          Common language, and all that…

          “Teach Milk on the internet……Give Meat in your home.”

          Again you judge and presume to lecture as my teacher. Speaking of egos…

          But clearly you insist upon having the last word and jab, so be my guest.

        • CrowPie

          Yes……..in our modern day society…….to judge……equates with condemnation.

          To discern mean to recognize sin from acceptable behavior.

          So…..that is why I use the language I have…….and will continue to use.

      • CrowPie

        ” I was not correcting you in as much as i was counselling that it is unsafe to place emphasis, on what is written, by clipping statements. This is called cherry picking.”

        And me point to you……which was completely over your head….was that I had just said……

        and I quote once again since you missed it, AGAIN…

        .”…..so…..while I don’t approve of the lifestyle…..I still don’t have the right to Judge (Only God can do that) and so…..things remain as they were before they told me.”

        If you look closely…I begin with ….”so while I don’t approve of the lifestyle…”

        that is a clear and undeniable demonstration of discernment of what IS and IS NOT acceptable behavior in Christs EYES. Or in other words….Sinful behavior. But you missed that altogether…..and picked up the rock, ready to tell me that my loving the sinner and hating the sin was wrong.

        You did not inquire as to whether or not I had shared the love of Christ with my friend…..nor did you ask if they had even participated in the act of homosexuality.

        But the crux of our conversation, the heart of it is whether or not we are to Judge. So far…you say judge righteously…..I am right?

        Well….it is my firm belief……that if you study enough…..you will realize that the scriptures, and Christs’ own mouth will tell you……that no man is righteous.

        If you believe yourself to be righteous…..be my guest…..I have a hard enough time minding my own behavior…..as I understand it, we fall short without even knowing we fall short.

        Discernment and judgement are two entirely different subjects.

        • CrowPie

          By the way Cold and prideful are descriptions……not names.

        • CrowPie

          One more piece of information for you…..since your so slow to judgement……..I don’t have use of my right hand…….

          So sorry to OFFEND your PRECIOUS sensibilities with my prolific cut and paste……in order to make my point.

          I would spend more time and be much more in depth with you in my discussion……as it stands….I am limited to using what is at hand……and what little my left can do in short bursts.

        • HumanBeing

          I try to avoid jumping into other people’s personal feuds, but a point needs to be made.

          If you have a disability, don’t expect others to be mind readers. To bring out the disability as a rebuke to your opponent well after the dispute began is the “appeal to pity” fallacy. It would be far better to state up front the reason for a copy/paste, disabled or not, than to paint your opponent as insensitive for not being psychic enough to know you had a reason.

          FYI, I have some disabilties too, with vision and hands, but I NEVER use them as excuses. I take full responsibility for what I type, and I don’t expect pity or passes for any reason. And if I have misjudged someone, I have publicly apologized. So I’m not asking others to live to a standard I wouldn’t meet myself.

        • CrowPie

          I had made my point entirely, and had put a point on my argument. That is why I held the comment about Mayhems “dig’ until the end.

          I rarely argue scripture. We are not to be contentious, and I have sullied myself in this whole sorry mess.

          But Mayhem ridiculed my copy and pasting…..I gave an explanation surrounded by Mayhems “very own habitual words.” They are not words of my making……rather Mayhems.

        • CrowPie

          And….I was also pointing out…that he was judging me again…..simply for copy and paste….rather than typing…..

        • CrowPie

          Everyone misjudges……we all do. But Mayhem seems to be trying to push the point that one can judge, is supposed to judge….righteously.

          I am of the firm belief that as humans it is fundamentally impossible for any of us to be righteous at any time.

          We should practice discernment. But never judge or sit in judgement of another.

        • HumanBeing

          CrowPie,

          The details of your beef with Mayhem are beside the point. For anyone on any topic, it’s always best to cite sources and/or state why the copy/paste is necessary. There’s nothing wrong or judgmental about saying someone needs to do this. So whether you have a disability or not, I think it’s legitimate to fault someone for not saying where the text came from, if not original.

        • CrowPie

          When it’s scripture and provides chapter and verse in the bible…..I’ll respectfully disagree….sorry. We should be able to be better than that…….

          If not…..then I see no point having ANY further scriptural discussions with people who claim to be of the faith, who can’t demonstrate at least THAT much trust.

        • CrowPie

          BTW….Could you Not TELL that all of those verses Came from the Bible? Had neither of you ever seen them before??

          I mean…I did provide Chapter and verse with each individual verse…..

          I really Had to tell you that it was Copied and Pasted in order not to Offend you?

          Or was it that I just had so many? In One Place.

          Is THAT what Mayhem meant by “THAT”s not fair!” :lol:

          Now, I get it…….Now that I know the rules…….I think I can rectify this whole thing.

          Then I won’t have to worry about typing at all…….I can join into the reindeer games all the time……simply by ……speaking. :grin:

        • HumanBeing

          “BTW….Could you Not TELL that all of those verses Came from the Bible? Had neither of you ever seen them before??”

          Again, this is beside the point. The point is that you rebuked your opponent for something he couldn’t possibly have known. Why else did you bring up your disability, instead of just what you said now about it being obvious scripture? Which is it, your disability or presuming what your opponent should know about Bible quotes?

          Anyway, this isn’t my fight, it’s between you and Mayhem. All I did was point out that appealing to a previously unreported disability is a logical fallacy.

        • CrowPie

          I think the real problem is your both upset because I inundated Mayhem with bible verses, chapter and verse, that proved my point, copy and paste or not.

          And if copy and paste is your only distraction……then I believe my point is well made.

          Good day.

        • HumanBeing

          “I think the real problem is your both upset”

          No, I’m not upset at all. I only pointed out a logical fallacy, in the hope of helping people learn to spot them and avoid them. Such fallacies inhibit communication and cause unneeded strife.

          (BTW… presuming motive and declaring oneself the victor are also fallacies.)

        • CrowPie

          I’m sorry….did you just call a list of copied verses from scripture ” a logical fallacy?”

        • HumanBeing

          “I’m sorry….did you just call a list of copied verses from scripture ” a logical fallacy?””

          No, not at all. I called your appeal to pity a logical fallacy, as well as your judging of other people’s motives, which is of course ad hominem.

          For the record, I have not taken sides in your debate with Mayhem. Neither have I judged the motives of either of you, nor have I called scripture fallacious. What I have actually done is try to explain why pulling out the “disabled” card at that point in your debate was fallacious. I cannot explain this any more clearly.

        • CrowPie

          That was no appeal to pity……that was me being point blank, and then using some of Mayhems own standard insults right back on him. (Let him get a taste of his own medicine.)

          My point is…….here you are…….speaking as if, that because those verses were copied and pasted……that they suddenly were NOT the Word OF GOD.

          That they suddenly became less Valuable. Less meaningful.

          And you both tried to argue that point………and why wouldn’t that be insulting to a true lover of Christ? A true lover of the Word……

          It should NOT matter how it gets there….as long as it gets there……your offense……shows your true colors.

        • HumanBeing

          CrowPie,

          I’m afraid you’ve blown this way out of proportion. A logical fallacy is identified by commonly accepted rules, which I did not make up. Knowing this, people can avoid miscommunication and faulty arguments. My pure and simple motive for pointing it out in this particular case was exactly that and nothing more.

          So yes, it was “appeal to pity”, since you used it as a defense of copy/paste. Mayhem could not have known about your disability and thus could not be held responsible for not considering it in your case. Rather than being “point blank”, you used a “red herring”. This is how logic works, that’s all.

          But you now are falsely accusing me of disparaging the scriptures themselves, which is absolutely ridiculous. If you wish to speak of insult, that one surely wins the prize… and your own “true colors”.

          Again, I did not take sides in the content of the debate, did not dishonor the scriptures, did not get upset, and did not do anything but point out a fallacy in a debate of which I was not a participant. It is a shame that you decided to take offense and then “shoot the messenger” like this, as I have had no prior dispute with you that I can recall. I won’t try and guess your reasons for doing this, but the door is always open should you decide to repent of falsely accusing me of calling the scriptures fallacious. Take care.

        • CrowPie

          HumanBeing

          CrowPie,

          The details of your beef with Mayhem are beside the point. For anyone on any topic, it’s always best to cite sources and/or state why the copy/paste is necessary. There’s nothing wrong or judgmental about saying someone needs to do this. So whether you have a disability or not, I think it’s legitimate to fault someone for not saying where the text came from, if not original.

          Oct 24, 2014, 5:26 am

          The above is a copy of your comment where you pretend not to recognize the very common verses and needed me to cite a source for my copy and paste.

          It speaks for its self……even if your memory is short. (To avoid miscommunication.)

          Mayhem and I have both been on this site for at least a year……I was ‘reminding ‘ him about my hand…….he knows/knew…..may have momentarily forgotten….but he has heard it hear before.

          No…we have never had a prior dispute……this wasn’t your fight, and I should have said to you like you once said to me when I took up for you many months ago……..

          “Mind your own business.”

        • HumanBeing

          “Mind your own business.”

          I sure don’t recall saying that to you. But have it your way.

        • CrowPie

          BTW…..When some posts bible verses and provides chapter and verse with each one…..the source is ALWAYS……the BIBLE.

          That is the SITE…and source….every time.

        • Mayhem

          My concern, CrowPie, is that you implied that we are commanded not to judge. I concluded this when you agreed with freedom007 that only God can judge. This is not what Scripture says only what you think it says. I offer you no quarter for your physical infirmities, what ails you is not relevant to my point. I don’t care one whit if you type with your toes. I care that you knee jerked a prolific cut and paste that had almost nothing to do with the point you were making and in saying “almost nothing” i’m being generous.

          My dig at your cut and paste had nothing to do with the content and everything to do with your being too lazy to check if it was pertinent to the discussion. Most all of it wasn’t and i refuted your offering point by point. None, not one, of those verses support the premise that we are commanded, period, not to judge. Yet you are claiming your point is proved by those verses and that looks a lot like you are deluding yourself.

          As far as i’m concerned this discussion has nothing to do with gay’s not even a little bit. This is about there being no commandment against judging in the Bible. I will not be distracted by, or drawn into a personal squabble despite, your repeated attempts at devolution. Just so you know i’m not missing the tone of your comments, CrowPie, but this has never been about winning anything or correcting you. This is all about the risks of cherry picking Scripture.

          Now then: with regard judging and judgement, do you read the old testament, CrowPie? Could you explain why Moses was inspired to write in Deut 16:18 if we are commanded not to judge? How about explaining Jehoshaphat’s actions in 2 Chronicles 19:5,6? Then there’s the example in Exodus 18: 13-22 when Moses had taken on the task of judging Israel. Did his father in law tell him it was wrong or did he counsel that it is too much work for one man? Was Moses counselled to appoint judges in his stead or not? God does not change and these examples shoot holes through the idea that we are commanded not to judge. To claim the opposite is to disagree with God. Perhaps you would be better off taking it up with Him, CrowPie, but i suggest you read the book of Judges first.

        • Mayhem

          Here you go again, CrowPie. “we are not to be contentious” Why then did Jude feel the need to intercede on our behalf if we are not to question each other, let alone the Bible? Jude 1:22. Perhaps you could explain how 2 Timothy 3:16 is to be applied without some degree of contention. Or how we are to honour Hebrews 3:13 without contentions arising?

          And no: i am not pushing the point that we are “supposed to judge”. You’re making stuff up and attributing that stuff to me. Not fair. Perhaps you would pause and reflect on what you are saying because the more you snipe at HumanBeing the more it looks like you’ve got your knickers in a wad.

          And, again, no i’m not upset but you are thinking too hard. I’m a little frustrated that you doggedly refuse to see the Truth that is right before your very eyes, i’m perplexed that you are spending so much time and energy trying to justify your abridged understanding of what the Scriptures say and i’m puzzled at why you’re arguing from your ego.

          Given that you are giving me a taste of my own medicine i feel the need to circle back to my only point. Where is it said, in the Bible, that we are commanded not to judge? You’ve shown nothing so far that can support such a claim. All you have done is share Scripture that warns us about being cautious, and or righteous, when we do exercise judgment and we are in complete agreement on that. I will not be casting the first stone either.

          To conclude: i would love nothing more than to be humbled by Truth but if you can’t, or won’t, show me where i’m wrong could you at least shut up before you embarrass yourself?

        • Mayhem

          1) I wasn’t sweating the approaches from the gay’s. That idea is of your own making and i was very clear about that.

          2) I never said your cut-n-paste wasn’t from the Bible. I said it wasn’t applicable to your case in the slightest.

        • am123

          JUDGES SCORECARD: :wink:

          The clear winner in the above fight…ummm….I mean exchange…between Mayhem and CrowPie is:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErGzrPGJmoY

          Who struck the deathblow early on in the fight…er…discussion….with the statement “When you read the passage in its entirety you can’t help but see that it is wise counsel against judging and not a command in the way that you put it”, and CrowPie just never recovered after that, never landing a punch in the fight despite throwing a flurry of punches from the Word.

          CrowPie, your “thou shall not judge” exhortation does the kingdom of God no favors and is not Biblical, as Mayhem demonstrated.

          While we should judge judiciously and circumspectly lest we bring judgment down upon ourselves by being a hypocrite, nevertheless, judging is something the Church does:

          “Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

          —1 Corinthians 6:3

        • Mayhem

          Thank you am123 but I deserve little credit. Sharing and reading our Bibles has been the only thing of value here. I’ve seen your work and we both know these debates require due diligence. Not the least of which is getting the tone right, if you catch my drift.

          Knowing there are Scriptural-ly sound folk around to correct me when I stray is about the only thing that lends credibility to my widdle opinions. There’s got to be one or two just waiting for ‘Mayhem’ to slip up and I know ya’ll won’t hesitate to jump right in. Oh yeah, you’ve did that already. (sic)

          Respect.

        • CrowPie

          Mayhem,

          As I stated I don’t (normally) argue over scripture. You only attacked MY belief, which is loving and supported by scripture…..I practice discernment and refrain from judgement because I am never in a righteous state. I also stated that I have “sullied myself in this whole sorry mess,” another acknowledgement that I (and no human) can ever be in a righteous state.

          It is the “assusmption’ that you can judge righteously in a ‘righteous state’ that makes your belief incorrect in ‘my opinion.’

          Once again……If you and your friends feel as if you are all righteous……knock yourselves out.

          Titus 1:6 – If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly (The word ‘unruly’ is also interpreted as contentious.)

          the above was taken from: Titus 1:5-9

          5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

          As stated one must be blameless, just holy, temperate. How many arguments are “JUST or >TEMPORATE?

          Also…..If I make a statement such as……we are not to be contentious……You are not to Fall upon me with a sickle…..for I just spoke the truth, but I did not quote scripture….although I CAN…..and You are remiss for your behavior.

          Also…..righteousness is something that Christians must always be working toward. Must always be working to attain…..it is NOT a guaranteed gift that comes with a one time purchase of $19.99…….But Wait….don’t send your money now…….we’ll also send you four more packs of righteousness FREE for just $5.00……that’s right….

          No! NO!NO! Righteousness is something we attain, we reach and work toward….But we cannot judge righteously…..because then we make hypocrites of ourselves……for we are NEVER without sin.

        • Mayhem

          Where do you get the idea that unruly means contentious? The Greek text says G506: anupotaktos: not subject to rule. There are 4 occurrences of this word in the NT and, by context, none of them could be mistaken as meaning contention. Go on then and show me how some modern dictionary proves me wrong. I could use the laugh.

          And where do you get off presuming that i run around judging my head off? Again with the making stuff up and attributing it to me. That is not fair, in fact it’s rather rude, and i’ve had to tell you a few times. Stop doing that.

          By the way, presumption is judgement. Oh yes it is. Look it up.

          You’ve made it very clear, CrowPie, that this is all about your bunched up knickers and to this end i’m letting you have the last say. Says it all really…

          “(Let him get a taste of his own medicine.)”

        • CrowPie

          Your right, Your absolutely correct……..It was “accused of riot” that I should have used as the example for not being contentious. (I do have my moments of confusions…..) please forgive. :lol:

          I usually am pretty quick to admit when I am wrong. But I am not wrong to hold to my belief. You are entitled to yours…..I am entitled to mine……

          In the mean time I won’t tell you that YOUR beliefs are wrong……as long as you don’t tell me MINE are.

        • am123

          CrowPie said:

          “As I stated I don’t (normally) argue over scripture. You only attacked MY belief, which is loving and supported by scripture”

          The crux of the matter is your belief is not supported by Scripture.

          CrowPie said:

          “No! NO!NO! Righteousness is something we attain, we reach and work toward”

          No! NO! NO! Righteousness is something that is imputed to us through our faith:

          1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

          2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

          3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

          4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

          5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

          6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

          7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

          8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

          9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

          10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

          11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

          12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

          13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith

          —Romans 4:1-13

        • CrowPie

          Am123

          JN 8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

          JN 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

          JN 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

          JN 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

          JN 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

          JN 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

          JN 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

          JN 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

          JN 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

          JN 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

          JN 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

          JN 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

          JN 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

          JN 8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

          PAY ATTENTION HERE AM123!

          JN 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

          JN 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

          JN 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

          JN 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

          JN 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

          JN 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

          JN 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

          JN 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

          JN 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

          JN 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

          JN 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

          JN 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

          JN 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

          JN 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

          JN 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

          JN 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

          JN 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

          JN 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

          JN 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

          JN 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

          JN 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

          JN 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

          JN 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

          JN 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

          JN 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

          JN 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

          JN 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

          JN 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

          JN 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

          Now this is Important AM123……..because you still question who may judge and who may not………..even after the parable above…………………..

          JN 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

          JN 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

          JN 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

          JN 8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

          JN 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

          JN 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

          HERE IS YOUR ANSWER…IN these next two lines from Jesus’ own mouth!

          JN 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

          JN 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

          JN 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

          JN 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

          JN 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

          JN 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

          JN 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

          JN 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

          JN 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

          JN 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

        • CrowPie

          IThat was a lot to read……here is the condensed version. (I would hate for Mayhem, Am123 and H. being to think I had embarrassed myself.)

          These are Christs’ own words. You cannot misinterpret them in the area of Judgement.

          After all, Judgement is the core subject of this conversation, and righteousness being a gift does not give one an allowance to begin making judgement. Once a person makes a judgement, they become a hypocrite…for we all are sinners.

          As pointed out in the parable above.

        • CrowPie

          JN 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

          (Humans judge after the flesh….from what they see and hear. We cannot know another humans heart. Christ doesn’t judge the flesh….he judges the heart……That is the reason we are not to judge. We often don’t even know our OWN hearts. We are not qualified to do the work of the Lord. Judgement is not our job.)

          JN 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

        • am123

          CrowPie,

          Notice verse 11 in the chapter you cited:

          JN 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

          Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. So He judged that adultery was wrong, otherwise He wouldn’t have told her to sin no more. It would be the same for homosexuals today. Their sin, like anyone else’s sin, qualifies them for the more than abundant grace of Jesus Christ. So Jesus forgives them of their past sins, but would tell them to sin no more. This is a judgment that homosexuality is wrong, a judgment that, for some reason, you are not willing to make.

          Besides being unscriptural, your lovey-dovey “thou shalt not judge” attitude towards homosexuals does them no good and does the kingdom of God no good. Does a homosexual think he is doing wrong when he is engaging in homosexual activity? If a person does something he doesn’t think is wrong, will he repent of such activity? No. The road to hell is wide and easy and many will walk it. If God declares a certain activity as wrong and says people who practice it will end up in the lake of fire, is it love to let that person continue on in that activity unabated? Is it love to tell them what they’re doing is fine and there are no repercussions to it if you know otherwise? That is not love.

        • Mayhem

          And then there is another consideration, am123. In the parable of the adulteress, that CrowPie references here, we must consider that Jesus was asked for a ruling at the punishment phase of the trial. The judgement, of the scribes and pharisees, was a forgone conclusion as it was their game being played out to trip Messiah.

          Earlier i said i wouldn’t be casting the first stone, in the same circumstances, but on reflection i wouldn’t have been part of the baying hoard in the first place.

          I couldn’t add anything to your robust exegesis on John 8:11. Well done and keep showing the Love, brother.

        • am123

          Thanks Mayhem. And thank you for seeking to divide the Word rightly and for pursuing truth. The harvest is great and the workers are few :wink: .

        • CrowPie

          Yes…..which goes back to OUR use of discernment. If your recall…..I did say that we are to use discernment (the recognition of sin and teach what Christ says about those sins.)

          But……Christ only asked what Her sin was….and what they planned to do…….then He showed them their error.

          You refuse to see that Your recognition is appropriate……but your inability to know and understand the inner workings of the sinners heart is what makes your judgement of them inappropriate.

          Now this is why I believe as I do. This is also why at the end of the chapter the same people to whom Christ was speaking………….. (that an the fact that Christ was admitting that He was Gods son….and that he was totally taking their “political spin abilities” and the right to put themselves above what they considered less than they were and filthy,……..because afterall……a little white lie is the same as sodomy :lol: a sin is a sin is a sin )…………tried to stone him………and he hid himself.

          So…..I don’t expect your ever change YOUR minds on the subject. :lol:

        • CrowPie

          BTW AM123,

          You really should be smart enough to know that if I understand the word discernment then I understand that sinners are to be taught that they are sinning.

          But that is NOT the subject matter here. The subject here is JUDGEMENT, and you continue to muddy and muck the waters.

          You are constantly trying to divert from the matter……as did Mayhem with his copy/paste and then Human Being with her swing around the dance floor.

          So…..it takes three of you….all changing the subject to discuss one topic.

          A real dream team…..when most of the time I see you quarreling amongst yourselves.

          Why should anyone listen to or believe ANYTHING any of you say? They shouldn’t!

          That is why it is called a “personal relationship” with Christ. (It’s None of YOUR business how anyone else thinks!)

        • HumanBeing

          A passage I forgot to list earlier, 1 Cor. 5:9-13
          ————————————————————————–
          I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

          What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
          ————————————————————————-

          Christians are commanded to judge among fellow believers, but not commanded to judge those who are outside of the faith. This is indisputable scriptural teaching. Along with this is his rebuke of the people at Corinth for failing to judge:

          1 Corinthians 6:3
          Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

          And of course, Jesus’ words are routinely taken out of context. Mat. 7:1-2 says, “Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged. For whatever judgment you make may be used to judge you, and whatever measurement you use will be used to measure you.” Clearly Jesus is simply saying that you will be judged according to the way you judge others. Luke 6:36-37 gives more detail:

          “Become compassionate, just as your Father is compassionate. Don’t be judgmental, and you will certainly not be so judged; don’t condemn, and you will certainly not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.”

          Jesus is no more saying not to judge, than he is saying not to be compassionate or forgiving. He’s saying that we must not use a double standard. In John 7:24 he says,

          “Don’t judge by appearances; instead, reach the proper verdict.”

          Proper judgment in the proper sphere is the teaching of scripture. This is not a matter of preference but careful study. To say Jesus told us to never stand against sin or evil, to never concern ourselves with keeping the Christian community holy, is to ignore all these teachings of Jesus and the apostles. Discernment is a command, and that means to weigh and judge. If someone is in sin, Jesus said in Mat. 18, that person is to be confronted, and if necessary, expelled from fellowship. That requires judgment.

          If none of this is clear to someone reading, there is no point in claiming they care what the Bible says.

        • CrowPie

          Funny how you concentrate on a verse that increases your status when Christ teaches humility. Have you ever seen an angel?

          What must change, what extraordinary changes must take place before we will make those judgements?

          My guess is we won’t be doing it in these clay vessels.

          As to my education and understanding of the scriptures….best you mind your own at this point.

        • HumanBeing

          “Funny how you concentrate on a verse that increases your status when Christ teaches humility”

          Wow. I thought your “logic” was bad before, but this one takes the prize.

          Obeying Christ is lack of humility?????

          I “concentrate” on PASSAGES that REFUTE your ridiculous claims. You are AFRAID to judge, to take responsibility, to obey Jesus Himself on this matter. But clearly I’m wasting my time trying to explain this to you.

        • CrowPie

          You clearly want to do the judging…..which is not your job. At this point…I think you should stop teaching…..and go do some re-learning.

          Discern…..yes…..judge……no.

          It’s simple.

        • am123

          JUDGES SCORECARD: :lol:

          In the post-fight skirmish (the main event had already concluded), the ladies decided to have at it and unfortunately for CP, it was pretty much a repeat showing by CP, who swung wildly without landing any punches. And HB just pulverized her with several direct body blows right from the Word for which CP had no counters to. Just like the main event, it was a one-sided affair, much like this:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y77n–Af1qo

        • Mayhem

          Titus 3:9. Vain wranglings anyone? :neutral:

        • Mayhem

          I suppose, to be fair :cry:

          “as did Mayhem with his copy/paste” CP.

          … i did cut and paste FOUR FREAKING LINES into the entirety of this debate :lol:

        • Mayhem

          “In the mean time I won’t tell you that YOUR beliefs are wrong……as long as you don’t tell me MINE are.” CP.

          On the contrary: anytime anyone spots any error in my exegesis they are honor bound, Biblically commanded and asked, please, to shed the light of Truth that i be in error no longer.

        • CrowPie

          You are NOT to judge those outside the Church.

          12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

        • CrowPie

          And my guess is….Your a great deal more kind to sinner that you have been worshipping with for years.

          Which leads me back to my point…….In my opinion….cannot judge righteously, and cannot know another mans heart. We are also never with out sin……so……In my opinion….should not judge.

          You seem to take that as some proclamation to accept sin…..It is not. It also is not a proclamation to put up with a sinner. Relationships can be ended without judgement or condemnation.

          However, Boys of a certain age love that whole “poke it with a stick’ mentality.

        • HumanBeing

          CrowPie finally acknowledges a passage I quoted yesterday, and completely misses the part that she’s been ignoring this whole time:

          “You are NOT to judge those outside the Church.

          12For what have I to do with judging outsiders?

          *****Do you not judge those who are within the church? *****

          13But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.”

          So there she has it: ***JUDGE THOSE WHO ARE WITHIN THE CHURCH.*** She typed/pasted it herself. Now there are no excuses; she has lost the debate over judging. (Unless, of course, she takes Paul’s rhetorical question “Do you not…?” as “You do not…”, even though it makes nonsense of the whole chapter that way.)

        • CrowPie

          To which I still offered a caveat…….that you still miss…….

          “”Which leads me back to my point…….In my opinion…we cannot judge righteously, and cannot know another mans heart. We are also never with out sin……so……In my opinion….should not judge.”"

          I also said it is my opinion……

          And yes…..they did…..and still do….judge within the church……but that doesn’t mean that is MY belief……and MY belief is supported by scripture. Take my statements above.

          God judges the heart. We are incapable of doing this…and so should refrain from judgement.

          2 Chronicles 6:30
          then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive, and deal with everyone according to all they do, since you know their hearts (for you alone know the human heart),

          Job 10:4
          Do you have eyes of flesh? Do you see as a mortal sees?

          We are never without sin.

          I John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

          And we bring judgement upon ourselves when we judge.

          Matthew 7:1-5 ESV / 195 helpful votes

          “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

          Proverbs Chapter 6

          16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:

          17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

          18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

          19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

        • CrowPie

          BTW,……. my friend ….who made the admission of being homosexual…….has NEVER been a member of any church.

          He always knew the churches stance…..and never went to services anywhere.

          And so…..since he has always been OUTSIDE the church…..I still wouldn’t have been allowed to judge him……Even under YOUR STANDARD.

        • CrowPie

          :lol: And I just loved your self declared, “I win! I win,”– dance.

          Ah yes…..That whole personal relationship with Christ through the interpretation of scripture really bothers you…….doesn’t it?

          Why does it bother you that I would be willing to allow a person with their own free will, to live under their own free will without my personal stamp of condemnation? (And you called ME the control freak. :lol: )

          After all…God created us all…knowing what we would do before he made us…..then he made us anyway……..

          So, if God allows them their free will…..all I can do is what he asked….teach them the LOVE of Christ…..and allow them to decide from there……

        • HumanBeing

          “MY belief is supported by scripture”

          NO. Your belief is REFUTED by scripture. You somehow turn “JUDGE WITHIN THE CHURCH” as “DO NOT JUDGE WITHIN THE CHURCH, because you’re not qualified”. Either scripture is correct or you are; it cannot be both, since the two ideas are mutually exclusive.

          You are basically saying that up is down and black is white. That is why you lost the debate, NOT because of anyone’s ego or rejoicing. You are in denial of “JUDGE WITHIN THE CHURCH” even after you quote it yourself. There is no reasoning with you.

        • HumanBeing

          I suppose I also need to point out the obvious fact that the people of Corinth, whom Paul ordered to JUDGE and EXPEL from their fellowship the man sleeping with his stepmother, WERE ALL SINNERS! That’s right, the people Paul had been lambasting for all their backsliding and carnality were to JUDGE a fellow sinner.

          That’s scripture (1 Cor. 5). You are in rebellion against this scripture. Paul says “sinners must judge sinners”; you say “no one can judge sinners, ever, anywhere”.

          Choose this day whom you will serve: your own personal opinions, or the command of scripture.

        • CrowPie

          You are very welcome to believe what ever you choose…….

          I have stated several times that discernment, does NOT mean tolerating sin. And that relationships can be ended without condemnation or judgement. You simply state fact and go your separate ways.

          (I realize this is a new concept to you,……but it is something I have practiced for years……)

          Judgement and discernment are two different subjects.

          I realize that you feel you have a reputation to protect…..(what with you constantly hawking your book and all)

          But……that is not my concern……

        • HumanBeing

          “(I realize this is a new concept to you,……but it is something I have practiced for years……)”

          JUDGE much?

          Yes, you do. You make these snide remarks all the time and show NO “tolerance” for fellow believers who show you, FROM SCRIPTURE rather than “believing whatever you want”, that you are in rebellion of the command to judge righteously, sinner though you are.

          And have you never read Romans 1, where Paul explicitly states that people who engage in same-sex relationships are sinning?

          I have at least one gay relative, an unbeliever. I never get in this person’s face about it, since “outside the church” is not my place to judge. The first priority is salvation; only after that would I broach the matter of homosexuality as sin. I would do the same to other unbelieving relatives who are not gay but may be promiscuous, lying, or any other sin.

          But scripture says that when it comes to anyone who “calls themselves a brother/sister” and yet lives in a sin, that person is to be expelled from fellowship and treated as an unbeliever. How do we treat unbelievers? We pray for them, try to restore them to a right relationship with God, treat them kindly. But if they want to be in fellowship, they MUST give up habitual sin, of which homosexuality is undeniably a part.

          The scripture is clear and undeniable: Christians MUST judge each other according to the standards given us by Jesus and the apostles, and if necessary, expel an unrepentent sinner from our fellowship. We don’t hate them; we don’t shun them as the cults do; we simply exclude them from fellowship, in the hope that they will come to their senses. That is Paul’s teaching, not mine (“hand them over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh”).

          There are indeed gray areas in the church, per passages such as Rom. 14, but sexual immorality is clearly not one of those gray areas. And these scriptural commands (rather than the opinions of me or you) are for the purpose of keeping the Body of Christ holy and pure. Yes, we’re all sinners, but NO, we don’t all wallow in sin, refuse to stop sinning, or deny we’re sinning. You really need to grasp that concept.

          And stop with the snide and condescending hypocrisy.

        • HumanBeing

          “I realize that you feel you have a reputation to protect…..(what with you constantly hawking your book and all)”

          For general information, since CP has made it clear that she has JUDGED me and declared me guilty, and she cannot be reasoned with…

          1. What “reputation”? My name is mud around here for the most part. Go check some of the prophecy threads I started, and see what kind of “reputation” I have. There are Christians here who will tell you how deluded I am, how I listen to doctrines of devils, and how many will lose their faith because of me when, as they insist, the tribulation comes and they’re still here rather than raptured. There’s also all the resident trolls who will tell you how stupid, blind, gullible, evil, and horrible I am. And of course there’s also CP who has judged me to follow my own opinions, hate gays, and all the rest she’s stated here.

          2. My book is FREE, and the reason I wrote it is so I DON’T KEEP HAVING TO COPY/PASTE THE SAME ARGUMENTS OVER AND OVER. Same reason I wrote a lot in my archived blog; I write things down in documents people can link to so I don’t have to paste it repeatedly. If CP judges that to be “hawking”, then I guess she’s using a dictionary nobody else is using.

          CP tries relentlessly to smear me and judge me, but my judge is God and my advocate is Jesus and the Holy Spirit. CP’s opinion of me is just that and nothing more.

        • CrowPie

          And you really need to grasp that what we are doing and saying is on the internet for the whole world to read…….

          Common language is what common users of the internet understand.

          If you use the word judge (NOT quoting scripture) it takes on a modern and unbecoming quality…..that most non church goers do not readily understand in a biblical sense…….and makes Christians look like self involved, self righteous, exclusionary, hateful, out to condemn everyone around them sociopaths.

          If you wish to change the world with the Word……then it must be done in a language that they will not misunderstand.

          We are all believers……and yet cannot agree on the “language” that should be used to get the point across.

          If you insist that you must judge…..then those in sin will NEVER approach to even hear the Word of God.

          Teach Milk on the internet……Give Meat in your home.

        • CrowPie

          You said—

          “And you really need to grasp that what we are doing and saying is on the internet for the whole world to read…….”

          Take your own advice. Stop the snide remarks and hypocrisy of JUDGING people for judging. Try and read what we actually said, too. And to discern is to judge. You erroneously think that judge means condemn, which it does not, since only God has the authority to do that.

          Common language, and all that…”"”

          Yes……..in our society…….to judge……equates with condemnation.

    • Damien

      Don’t you have little brown children you should be off bombing with Pix / plsnogod GayTheist?

    • truthlovingsoul

      there has always been gay people, there will always be gay people. they are a part of us and those who deem them sinful or evil are exhibiting the european traits of religiosity. european based religion is more intolerant than most religions.
      animals can be gay too, proven, if you have to label it with a word, so are they sinners?

      get over yourselves, hateful bigots and love your fellow man. love your neighbor as yourself, right? i guess jesus had a codicil added saying….love all except gays!

      love all…..ACCEPT gays.

      peace, and please stop looking for people to hate and persecute. you make baby jesus cry.

      • Damien

        And what about furries? How much of your statement to do with gays and how much of it is to do with opposing the community of heterosexuals (or any other community basically but this one about gays just happens to be trending amongst progressivist trash)? What about the fact that most of those who are supposed to be gay were exposed to gay sex while underage? Is the world at risk of losing what they give to it by not working towards all children being exposed to gay sex while underage (molested)?

      • Truthseeker

        truthlovingsoul

        I also love the truth and the truth is no queer or pervert will ever be in the Kingdom of God. God hate sin and men with men or women with women is sin.

        And as far as portraying the KING of kings as a baby have you not read in Revelation when Christ returns He comes as a warrior King and will slay millions of His enemies with HIS sword. My Savior is not a little helpless baby.

        Please read I Corinthians 6: 9 Paul states clearly no fornicator nor effeminate which is a nice word for Sodomite, Queer or pervert and some other words that can not be use here, will ever make it into the Kingdom of God. God will at the end destroy them all.

    • TEXASPROUD

      I”m a man who has been delivered from 30 years of homosexuality. It was through the love of Christ and the Grace of God that I was able to walk out of the lifestyle and into a loving obedient life with Christ. I’m NOT saying that God “healed” me because that is an on-going process; I CHOSE to walk with Christ and in doing so, am slowly losing the feelings and need to participate in that life. I belong to a great church and am developing healthy masculine relationships with men. I don’t know if I will ever be “healed” of those feelings because Satan and demons attack (not just me, but every Christian no matter what the sin), but I know that I have the tools to fight and I put on my full armor of God in order to do so. I used to take drugs as well and there were several instances in the midst of my high where I felt like I was in the etherial and that I was in God’s presence; even a time I thought I was God.. so I know what Frisbee was talking about. I pray and hope that Frisbee had a true love of Christ and that he accepted Christ as his personal savior and into his heart before he died.

    • Pink Slime

      All sodomites die of AIDS. They practice a vile abomination. Just like America is doing with the vile Obamanation of the negro sodomite.

      • The Real Deal

        Your charm is amazing. I bet you have a lot of friends. :roll:

    • Pink Slime

      ZeroScum (aka MSG Chicken) is back with the vile “B” word to describe Negroes he looks down on so much.

      • 0 Sum

        Oh MSG Chicken, You still thinking about me? I see you brought your little friend ;)

        • Pink Slime

          No ZeroScum, MSG Chicken or Chris or whatever your name is you like to check in with.

        • 0 Sum

          Only have this one account and I’d prefer if you’d spell it correctly Boss. Sum not Scum.

          If you’d refer I won’t bring up your multiple accounts in front of the others.

    • Anonymous

      His eyes are staring in seperate directions, and the charisma came from the people.

      Homos don’t just play footsie with fashion crimes and commit futile, masturbatory acts. They chased the children of Westboro through public parks and perform hardcore sadomasochism, which can hardly be called edifiying. They’ll put it on parade.

      In theory, AIDS can come from contact with one person, but tell me how many people they realisitcally came into contact with.

      Effeminacy is just the tip of a massive iceberg, if you want to be intellectually honest. If you’re not, I’m not interested in having this dicussion.

    • Martus

      LONNIE FRISBEE did not preach homosexuality, he preached God, he preached Christ.

      Lonnie was not Jesus but did have the power of the Holy Spirit otherwise he could not do the things he did.

      When sin becomes your god then you are dead, your conscience is dead.

      Stay out of Churches that bless/encourage sin,

      1 Timothy 4:2 [Full Chapter]
      Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

      Join those Churches that know sin is a struggle and although you struggle with it, the victory has been already won by Jesus who died for your sins.

      If you are Christ’s then you will struggle against sin if you don’t then you are of the Devil!

      • Truthseeker

        martus

        So you are saying God uses queers to preach righteousness? Really?

        God hate sexual immorality, did He not destroy millions of queers and perverts in the flood of Noah?
        But now God “likes” practicing queers?????? Not possible!

        When some one has power it does not mean it has to be the power of the Holy Spirit of God the Father, are you not aware that Satan is the god of this world – it is ALL under his control, the governments and religions and peoples and he has the ability to give of his power to people like homosexual Lonnie Frisbee: Satan has and will continue to give power to evil perverted folks, his plan is to deceive the entire world.
        You have seen nothing as yet, God is turning His back to the Nations of Israel and giving Satan free reign

    • YarplyTwelve

      lying signs and wonders. Be not surprised if the servants of darkness appear as good, for their master transforms himself into an angel of light.

    • Anonymous

      As long as they pay to pray.

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