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Gibberish that is not understandable is not the gift of tongues.
History reveals that it was in the year 1901 when a new type of tongues entered into the Church where one did not understand what they were saying. This incoherent speech never existed before this in the Church, which is supported by Church history and all the late great theologians that are used by most Pastors. Not only did these theologians never mention this, but they show all references to speaking in tongues in scripture to be that of known foreign languages only. So after 1901, many begun studying scripture to see what they could find to justify this new type of tongues. However, this is not the way it should be. It is our interpretation that needs to change if necessary to fit the Bible, not the Bible changed to fit our interpretation. There is in fact no example whatsoever given anywhere in the Bible of this type of incoherent tongues that just suddenly happened not that long ago. There are only assumptions.
The response of many and the most common assumption is usually 1 Corinthians 14:4 where Paul says if you speak in a tongue unknown to the others present then you edify yourself. This is the most common scripture that has been used since 1901 to backup what we see in the Church today. However, on closer examination of this passage we note that Paul is saying that he would rather that we prophesy as that edifies the Church but if we speak in a language unknown to those around us than you only edify yourself which is wrong. Paul was saying not to do this and so the use of this verse is a bad assumption or an attempt to make scripture fit what entered the Church just over a hundred years ago.
It should also be noted that these incoherent tongues as seen since 1901 is not uniquely Christian and has been found in many satanic cults all over the world that even predates Pentecost and this should obviously be of extreme concern. But those enticed by this inarticulate gift that is supposedly from God do not seem to be at all concerned.
http://www.speaking-tongues.org/
Throughout recorded history there have been many occasions where people have spoken in what was called ecstatic tongues. Note most of these accounts predate Pentecost and were of non-Christian origin. Christians therefore can not say with confidence that every occurrence of glossolalia must be an expression of the will of God even though many do subscribe to this view. Those practicing tongues today portray Pentecost as the supreme example of supernatural tongues; however, the recorded cases of glossolalia go back as far as 1100 B.C. On that occasion a young Amen worshiper attracted historical infamy when he became possessed by a god and began to make sounds in a strange ecstatic tongue.
Seven hundred years later, the Greek philosopher Plato demonstrated that he was well acquainted with the phenomenon of speaking in tongues as he referred to several families who practiced ecstatic speech, praying and utterings while supposedly possessed. He also pointed out that these practices had even brought physical healing to those who engaged in them. Plato and most of his contemporaries asserted that these occurrences were caused by divine inspiration. He suggested that God takes possession of the mind while man sleeps or is possessed and during this state, God inspires him with utterances which he can neither understand nor interpret. This does NOT mean of course that one practising speaking in tongues as seen today is possessed or not saved. That of course is just simply not true. When God confused the languages of His people who were rebelling at Babel in Genesis 11, they also spoke in “new tongues” and note this happened without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
In the last century before Christ, Virgil described the speaking of ecstatic tongues of the Sybilline priestess on the Island of Delos as the result of her being unified with the god Apollo. This happened while she meditated in a haunted cave amidst the eerie sounds of the wind playing strange music through the narrow crevices in the rocks.
Several of the mystery religions of the Greco-Roman world record the same phenomenon of speaking in tongues. Some of those most often listed are the Mithra cult of the Persians; the Osiris cult originating in the land of the Pharaohs, and the lesser known Dionysian, Eulusinian, and Orphic cults cradled in Macedonia, Thrace and Greece. Another indication comes from Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) who in De Dea Syria describes an example of glossolalia as exhibited by a roaming believer of June, the Syrian goddess, stationed at Hierapolis in Syria. It is also interesting to note that the term glossolalia used so widely today comes from the Greek vernacular which was in existence long before the day of Pentecost. It should be frightening to all Christians that what we see now in the Church today, resembles these occurrences of ecstatic tongues that took place in these ancient cults before the day of Pentecost and that what took place at Pentecost does not in any way resemble these occurrences. At Pentecost, it was undoubtedly and unarguably the speaking of foreign languages.
Believe it or not, speaking in tongues as seen in the Church today is a fairly recent phenomenon in Christianity. It came about in four waves. The 1st wave started around 1901 and was founded in the traditional Pentecostal movement by Charles Parham of Bethel College, Kansas. The 2nd wave, neo-Pentecostalism or the Charismatic movement entered most Churches in the early 1960’s in Van Nuys, California, under Dennis Bennett, Rector of St Marks Episcopal (Anglican) Church. In ten years it spread to all major Protestant families of the world, reaching a total of 55 million people by 1990. It included the Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Roman Catholics and many others. The 3rd wave, the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movement started in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1967 among students and faculty of DuQuesne University, and by 1993 it touched the lives of over 100 million Catholics in over 238 nations. And the 4th wave was the Evangelicals that started in 1981 at Fuller Theological Seminary with John Wimber. By 1990, 33 million in the world were moving in signs and wonders, though they play down labels such as “Pentecostal” and “Charismatic.”
What does the word Tongues mean?
The term tongues when used in reference to speaking just simply means “language”. The Greek word is “glossa” and means “tongue, language,” and the verb “laleo” means “to speak”, producing the word “glossolalia”. Here is the definition from the Strong’s and Thayer dictionaries:
Strong’s Definition: “glossa”, pronounced “gloce’-sah” Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): – tongue.
Thayer Definition: “glossa”
1) The tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech.
2) A tongue.
1a) the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations.
References to Glossolalia in the KJV Bible
The scriptures below are all references to the word tongues in the King James Bible. They have been grouped so one can clearly see all references to glossolalia and what they are referring to;
The only mention of glossolalia in the Gospels
Mark 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”
The fulfilment of Jesus words in Mark 16:17
Acts 2:3-4 “And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
Acts 2:8 “And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?”
Acts 2:11 “Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.”
http://www.speaking-tongues.org/speakingtongues.html
I don’t know if it’s the curse of Satan, Truthseeker, but it sure is juvenile gibberish.
That’s one thing I will agree with you on…..
There must be something wrong with my monitor.
CrowPie and Mayhem AGREE?!!?
Something definitely wrong with monitor. Wires must be crossed or something.
He’ll likely change his stance, now…..
My grandmother used to think I spoke in tongues. As it turned out, I was only 2 years old. She let it go.
There are many points of agreement between us, CrowPie, far more than there are disagreements.
Personally; i gain a lot of benefit from our discussions and hope you do too.
@Bill Lyle. Grandma should have taken up her switch and beaten the heathen out of you. Oh you were only two? Well in that case a damn good talking to and a lengthy time out might have been more in order.
You’re never too young to be punched in the mouth. Especially by Grandma.
Or too old, for that matter.
So Beef is back?? is it really YOU??
It is until some meat-fisted goobersmoocher confiscates my avatar again, like last time.
We’ll see how it goes.
Beef
I just posted a paper on BIN concerning the Sabbath.. I doubt it will get much attention — most so called christians hate the Law especially the Sabbath.
That “Replacement theology” “fine fellow” Destined2bconfused explained to me Jesus Christ NEVER kept the Sabbath — the day HE created and the Day HE is LORD of — He rejected LOL Now that makes sense only to those that are truly confused.
“…Jesus Christ NEVER kept the Sabbath…”
Whoever says that needs to have their reading glasses inspected for deformities.
And just to be safe, they should also hit up a few remedial English classes.
Mayhem
Even when confronted with logic and clear scripture, as is used throughout this paper — the adherents refuse to believe, the majority will not even read one word.
destined2b is a big big “speaker” —- I doubt he or they will read two lines. He has been “baptized by or with the spirit”,, code for speaking with tongues.
I am beginning to consider when Satan came up with this dogma to inject into the Elect he may have also included some kind of drug effect so that speaking in tongues becomes an addiction to the speaker.
Even when asked if what they are speaking is an actual curse upon Christ — that possibility is just rejected off hand. These folks are hooked.
I’ve been to a few religious services that follow the practice, Truthseeker, and they don’t like me so much especially when i ask what the heck they’re babbling on about and whether the message might be better received if they spoke so that i could understand what they were saying.
You might think i’ve a couple of clues and perhaps that i write well but let me assure you that i’m as subtle as a sledgehammer driving home thumbtacks not to mention about as bright as a sackful of said implements.
Does “babble” come from “babel” and, if so, what sort of idiot can’t discern the lesson given at Shinar?
See, that’s why I dismiss the whole “speaking in tongues” thing, out of hand. Allegedly, they speak some dead language, that either no one’s spoken in thousands of years, or some language that only exists in the ether. Either way, it requires someone to translate, yes?
Suddenly, I’m reminded of Joseph Smith…. Strange, no?
Yes, they do need to have someone who can translate their messages. Had a friend who received such messages<during prayer evenings and her mother translated. I cut all ties to her because she became OBSESSED with religion and imposed her point on view on everyone.
The messages she received were always POSITIVE – never dealt with END OF THE WORLD GARBAGEas the norm on B
…END OF THE WORLD GARBAGE as the norm on BIN and they came from the Virgin Mary
Same here, Bill, i’d always thought of it as gobbldygook with logic dictating that if there was any edifying going on then it could only be to the speakers benefit as no one else could make heads-nor-tails of it.
Personally i have no time for self-glorifiers and my lack of decorum doesn’t prevent me from saying so. You should see the looks on their face, priceless, it’s like they’ve never been questioned on the validity of such gibberish.
Interestingly i’m mostly asked to leave, and not come back, long before any of them have opened the book to show me where they find their authority.
Truthseeker, You know Who says, “Believer, get out of that boat and walk on this water on over to Me”,.
Doubter says, ” Hey Man, you got chapter and verse for me walking on water on over to You ? otherwise, no go.”
Below is a scriptural example of how believers cannot and will not Control God, His actions or His Words. One statement at a time might suffice for someone.
“The Spirit breathes where He desires,
and you hear His voice;
but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes;
so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit”
John 3:8
And contrary to your presumption, I read your paper, and find nothing new basically, nothing that can’t be refuted in words or deeds. But I’m not going there with you on that, because it is a waste of time, and I’m sure not revealing the many benefits of speaking Holy Spirit languages
in this blasphemy ring.
Yeah, that “deeds” word in the context of “speaking Holy Spirit languages” is a real problem for those who can’t see past the type in a book.
And speaking on a lower point about lower beings, the devil, and his
devils and demons HATE speaking Holy Spirit languages, so for now
THAT is the BOAT that you are also in.
I’ve never met a devil that likes the Speaking of Holy Spirit Languages.
Hope you and others eventually get out of that blasphemy boat.
pierced
Never —- Jesus Christ NEVER spoke and none of the 12 and neither will I!!!!
pierced
you said the following:
“new basically, nothing that can’t be refuted in words or deeds”.
How about refuting the words of Paul?
12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.
19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others —than ten thousand words in a tongue.
23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, — will they not say that you are out of your mind?
I can not find a scripture where Paul is explaining or instruction us to Pray by our selves in private to Our Father in “holy spirit languages”. — So I can not include it. sorry it don’t exist,.
But I am sure you can find some way or method to justify what you do — thats what the billions do and that is why there are thousands of sects, demonetization’s, churches, groups etc all believing differing doctrines. God is unity! Christianity is NOT.
According to pierced you’ve got to look “past the type in the book”, Truthseeker, because Scripture is, apparently, no longer the ultimate authority.
Putting that to one side and with all due respect to pierced isn’t it lovely that, along with the blaspheming demons and devils, we’re all being lumped together in the same boat?
“…all being lumped together in the same boat?”
So be it. Hand me one of them OARS Mayhem, and let’s us get busy.
And TRUTHSEEKER…
Don’t bother quoting Paul to Pierce. Pierce thinks about as much of Paul as Mr. ‘Room With An Obstructed View’ does, down below.
The response of many and the most common assumption is usually 1 Corinthians 14:4 where Paul says if you speak in a tongue unknown to the others present then you edify yourself.
I suspect Paul was just speaking about auditory hallucinations – a toungue unknown to others present – not blah bloo bag viloopinast
Thats what happened to him on the road to Damascus after all.
Excellent paper truthseeker. I can not find anywhere in the Bible where we are commanded to speak tongues.
Paul, Paul, Paul, that is all you christians ever quote, he was not at Pentecost, he was not chosen by Yeshua, he is the one who created division wherever he went. When you reject his teaching, you start to see the truth, but you christians will defend him to the end, and then quote him when someone tries to show you what a liar he was. He hated the Law, became a gentile, forced Timothy to become circumcised and then claimed Peter was a hypocrite. He certainly was a piece of work. He tells three different versions of his experience on the road to Damascus, which incidently happened to be where he was going to bring the converts back in chains for their death (murderer that he was) but he brags that he speaks in tongues more than anyone………So, if there is any doubt about tongues, I think you should look at where the controversy and the lies started, and you can confidently lay your garments at the feet of Paul the deceiver. For your own sakes, rip those deceitful letters out of your bible, while his words remain, the teachings of Yeshua are tainted with the leaven of the snake, serpent Pharisees.
“…someone tries to show you what a liar he was.”
If you had actually been paying attention, you would have seen EVERY SINGLE objection you Paul haters can muster, shot to the ground by quoting all the OTHER authors of the New Testament, not to mention several of the Old.
Carry on, keep your misguided accusations to yourself…
…and get a different room. One with a better view.
Damn all highest Christologists in the Bible! Clearly the far far later writers in the socially increasingly powerful church were more open to reason!
room with a view of darkness
I find many here on BIN that hate Paul — and I – DO- understand —He is talking so far over their very small minds that it is frighting to them.
Jesus Christ was also far above the most brilliant minds of HIS day and AND THEY KILLED FOR IT, it scared them to have someone smarter confront them, and it is same with you.
Paul is about 2/3 of the New testament and He teaches in a deep and profound way and you can not understand thus you hate Paul because — you —- are found lacking!!!!!!!!
And what is it you are lacking ??? The HOLY SPIRIT of the FATHER
Peter speaking of Paul:
2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
None of the apostles including Peter and James ever said anything bad about Paul nor do they contradict any of his words.
And Paul is the second of only two writers in the entire Bible we are cautioned to be careful about reading — the other being Isaiah.
That’s because their writings carry much potential for misunderstanding and abuse.
It is a tragedy when seekers identify Paul as their enemy and discard everything the Apostle wrote. It is barely possible to complete this journey successfully without the thorough and advanced exposition Paul provides for us on the entire Biblical Narrative of the Salvation of Adam-kind.
Beef and Amminadab
I know you both realize this fact, Paul was highly educated and was taught by the best of the day.
The 12 were fishermen and other “skilled” working folks with average education I would suspect.
Thus when these Paul haters read Paul’s letters it is far far over their heads. The writings of the others are difficult enough for most but Paul ties them in knots.. Even my wife gets lost, but she will not ask me LOL
What I find unusual — not one has challenged the logic nor the scriptures within this paper.
They all exclaim how great and wonderful it is to speak — they know not what — and how dumb I am — but they have no proof speaking in some so called “tongue” is of GOD. NONE!
“Is Speaking in Tongues a “GIFT” of GOD or a CURSE from Satan ??”
The talking snake is given authority by the giant invisible fairy story character as IT’s hit man (see Job). That, or the giant invisible fairy story character is not all powerful, you can’t have it both ways.
I know it’s difficult for the brain damaged but try thinking it out before making an idiot of yourself.. What sort of gift would it be? “Confusion creates fear, fear leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side.” Yoda
pix
I know a lady that works in a hospital, she is a trained specialist making about $75 K per year, a college graduate.
She is a friend of someone in my family — I do not let this women into my home!
She has chairs thrown across the room in her home and many other such things.
She recently told a family member -by phone- she was in with a patient and the fellow kept looking over her shoulder as she worked on him and he finally said “who is that horrible look guy over there?”
She said Oh don’t pay any attention to HIM! This women has demons – a few at that and she is well aware of it. They have been with her since she was young. The family member has witnessed “stuff”, it is real.
there is a physical world and there is a spirit world and in both there is good and bad.
There are millions of people that “speak” in what they think is an angelic language. but they are not the good angels but the kind that are in the lady above.
pix
Here is report of a little boy that walked up a wall and on to the ceiling with cops and social workers watching — now I ask you —- is that possible for humans to do??
The cops will not go back.
There is more then this physical world —
Goggle it there is more;;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBnxdCtPWM