Why do those claiming to be Christians willingly embrace a doctrine that falsely represents Jesus Christ as teaching --- LIES ?
All that Jesus Christ “spoke” – “fulfilled”, “preached” or “taught” for 3 ½ years – came directly from, was foretold by or can be found in the precepts of:
“The Law (Torah), the Prophets and the Psalms”
To become “our” — PASSOVER – Jesus Christ of Nazareth lived by “Every – word - that proceedeth out of the mouth of God”
Jesus lived by every Word of GOD — TO –- PERFECTION !
Matthew 4: 4
4 But he answered and said, It is written, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
Matthew 4: 4; was a direct quote from the TORAH: Deuteronomy 8: 3.
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
At His death the ONLY WORD OF GOD on earth was the “The Old Testament” [ The Tanakh ] which includes The Torah i.e “The Law”.
The writings of the Apostles did not become what is now called the “New Testament” until almost 400 years after the death of Christ and even then no one but catholic priests were allowed to read those writings for over 1000 years.
Do you understand none of the 11 Apostles including Paul ever read the Book of Revelation? Only John saw it as he wrote down the WORD of God the SON as it was revealed to HIM at the end of his life ! And No Apostle ever read what we now call the New Testament; they may have read some of the letters each wrote, but all the letters were never assembled together until long after their deaths.
The only WORD of God available to Jesus Christ during His 33 ½ years on earth was what is now called the Old Testament and at His death some of Jesus’ very last words were from David’s Psalms. The only WORD of God available to the Apostles during their lifetime was — the Old Testament.
Psalms 22
1 my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
Matthew 27
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is to say, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? “
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost (breath or spirit).
In fact David’s 22nd Psalm quoted above is about the life and death of Jesus Christ. Must we also abolish Psalms to the garbage can of history as well??
If Psalms was the WORD of GOD i.e. TRUTH, to Christ — how can it NOT BE the WORD of GOD today??
It was TRUTH in the day of Jesus Christ and now it is — NOT? God’s TRUTH CAN CHANGE? YOUR God can change?
Jesus Christ lived a sinless life by following - “TO PERFECTION” – every WORD of GOD written in the TORAH, the Prophets and the Psalms. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was judged by the Law, by the Torah and was found by His Father to be without SIN; PERFECT AND BLAMELESS !
Our Perfect Passover Lamb without blemish died in our stead.
Jesus Christ had to be — sinless: –as only – A SINLESS – Savior could became SIN for mankind and die on the stake for us: Jesus Christ IS OUR PASSOVER!
1 Corinthians 5: 7 “— For even Christ our - Passover - is sacrificed for us:”
Passover belongs to GOD, not the Jews. Exodus 12: 27
The majority of so called Christians – to this day – ignorantly and boastfully proclaim – ——
“Jesus Christ nailed that LAW to the stake.”
That — “LAW” – which IS THE TORAH – which Jesus Christ followed perfectly for 33 ½ years and taught His disciples’ for 3 ½ years – that LAW !
“So called” “Christians” who proudly teach the LAW was abolished at the Stake, — can not seem to make the obvious connection in their own minds:
That — “THEY” -– are accusing Jesus Christ of Lying!
If the Law, The Torah, was abolished at the stake then the statement Jesus Christ made in Matthew 4: 4 quoting from Deuteronomy 8: 3 was a lie!
If Christ began His ministry by teaching we must live by “Every Word” and then He abolished — “Every Word” – would that not convict Christ of lying?
For Christ to defeat Satan — using the Torah — as HE DID — and afterward instructed us to live by that very Word of God — for Christ to THEN abolish that very Word by which He defeated Satan, that very WORD He instructed us for 3 ½ years to live by — is that not deceitful? Is that not a lie?
Do you folks not understand the implications of your own doctrine? If Christ ABOLISHED The Law, the Prophets and the Psalms after living and teaching them for 3 ½ years — do you not understand you are accusing Jesus Christ of teaching lies, of teaching doctrines that are not ETERNAL not TRUTH ?
When the Term “LAW” is used it refers to the Torah which contains the Covenant, the 10 Commandments, the Statutes and the Judgments i.e. the five books of Moses.
Why teach for 3 ½ years from books that are to be dumped in the trash can of history as worthless ? Why would Jesus Christ teach His Disciples from the LAW and the Prophets for 3 ½ years, teaching them to observe every Word of God only to then refute and abolish everything He taught for 3 ½ years at His death ??
The belief Jesus Christ taught for 3 ½ years that which was to be abolished upon His death can only be logical and acceptable — to a deceived person!
The purpose of this paper is to factually and logically demonstrate Jesus Christ taught from the Tanakh and every word He spoke was in complete compliance with God’s TORAH. It must be so for Jesus Christ to be come our — SINLESS — Savior — our PASSOVER.
What better way to demonstrate this “fact” then with the temptation of Jesus Christ and the “Sermon on the Mount”.
Jesus Christ fasted for 40 days and 40 nights and then soundly defeated Satan the Devil when Satan tried to tempt a weakened Jesus Christ to sin by appealing to a great weakness found in all human flesh; vanity and pride. Our Savior defeated Satan, the god of this world, by using the LAW; The Torah.
Matthew 4:
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
Deuteronomy 8
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; “that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.”
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, “Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. “
Deuteronomy 6
16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted [him] in Massah.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, “Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him “only” shalt thou serve.”
Deuteronomy 6
13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
Exodus 34
14 For thou shalt worship no other God: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
This titanic battle qualified Jesus Christ to replace Satan, the god of this earth. Satan failed to ensnare Christ, failed to entice Christ into transgressing The LAW and the spiritual weapon used by our Savior was that two edged sword: THE WORD OF GOD!
That very WORD Jesus Christ taught we must live by and that very same WORD the so called Christian world demands –—-
——- be nailed to the stake and abolished forever.
If God’s WORD could be abolished, what are the Saints of God to use in their own war with Satan? IF the scriptures Christ used to defeat Satan are dumped in the trash, what replaces that powerful spiritual two edged sword?
The Apostle Paul tells us in Ephesians 6: 17 the Saints of God also are to use that very same Spiritual Sword our savior used: The WORD of GOD!
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit, which is — The Word of God:
Thank GOD that Word can never be abolished: that WORD is Truth.
“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by – every word – that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”
God spoke to Moses and then to the Prophets giving them His Words to write in books — if you foolishly attempt to make the case the “New Testament” writings are also spoken from the very Mouth of GOD please reveal where and when the letters of Paul and the other Apostles and the 4 Gospels were Spoken from the MOUTH OF GOD and written by down by the Apostles ? Only the book of Revelation came from the mouth of God.
Do I acknowledge Jesus Christ is – GOD! Yes! Thus the words of Jesus Christ as recorded in the 4 Gospels —- are — The Word of GOD — AND– this paper is demonstrating the teachings of Jesus Christ as found in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John come directly from the Torah, the Prophets and the Psalms – directly from the mouth of GOD.
Do I acknowledge the New Testament is ‘God Breathed’ and is the “WORD of God, ” YES ?
Do I acknowledge the men that wrote the letters and the history of that first century did so by the inspiration and guidance of the Spirit of God the Father, YES — absolutely !
Do I believe the Torah and much of what is found written in the books of the Prophets and the Psalms came directly from the mouth of God, yes?
There are many “Thus sath the LORD” found throughout the Old Testament.
The Gospel, the Good News Jesus Christ preached for 3 ½ years and every doctrine He taught has its foundation in the Torah, the Prophets and the Psalms.
The Sermon on the Mount
Matthew 5:
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Psalms 34: 18
18 The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Isaiah 66: 2
2 For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
4 Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Isaiah 57: 18
18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Psalms 37
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Psalms 106
3 Blessed [are] they that keep judgment, [and] he that doeth righteousness at all times.
7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Proverbs 11
17 The merciful man doeth good to his own soul: but [he that is] cruel troubleth his own flesh.
8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Psalm 24
3 Who shall ascend into the hill (country) of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Proverbs 12
20 Deceit [is] in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace [is] joy.
Psalms 82
6 I have said, Ye [are] Gods (Elohiym); and – all of you – [are] children of the most High.
To shorten this paper to a reasonable length we will skip ahead to the last scripture in the Sermon on the Mount.
Did Jesus Christ as He finished His Sermon on the Mount reveal to mankind an astounding insight?? Christ told those listening to His sermon they must become PERFECT — AS — our FATHER in heaven is — PERFECT!
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Christ lived totally and completely by the WILL of the Father! Everything Jesus Christ said and did was what the FATHER showed HIM to say and do. Every thing Christ was, said and did was PERFECT – in exact accord with the WILL of the FATHER and thus WAS PERFECT JUST LIKE OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.
SO!!! If living by the LAW i.e. the Torah, the Prophets and the Psalms is PERFECT and is exactly the mind of GOD the Father — did Christ then turn from that PERFECT WAY and abolish THE LAW THE PROPHETS AND PSALMS?
Face the logic: if our Father is heaven is perfect and Christ copied that perfect WAY to perfection — are we now to live another way?
Christ just told those listening to the sermon THEY must become perfect just like the FATHER in Heaven — and then Christ changed that PERFECT WAY which is living by the Commandments, the Statues and the Judgments ??
Turning from the WAY of the FATHER is to turn to the way of SATAN which is lawlessness !!!!!
In Psalms 1 can be found some of the foundational teachings of Jesus Christ that are scattered throughout the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in which Jesus Christ taught using direct quotes and paraphrased precepts.
1 Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
What is sin? What is ungodly? Define please without using the LAW.
2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
This is the Old Testament and David delighted in the LAW of the LORD. Was David foolish? Did David delight in an evil harsh LAW?
Must David, a man after God’s own heart/ nature, – repent of delighting in the LAW OF THE LORD? Yes I as well delight in the Holy Law of my Father.
David a man after God’s own nature, Jesus Christ stated will reign over all 12 tribes of Israel in the Kingdom.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, — nor sinners (1 John 3: 4) in the congregation of the righteous.
Please explain how one may determine if a person is “ungodly”.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Thy Law is Righteousness ! But Christ changed all that – Right?
As this paper is already longer then most will bother to read here is a final example where Christ used the “two edged sword” in His conflicts with the Priests and Pharisees.
John 10
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you– from my Father; – for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, “I said, Ye are gods”?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken [ dissolved] ;
Jesus Christ quoted from Psalms 82: 6 to shut the mouths of the Pharisees and THEN stated the scripture can not be broken, dissolved i.e. abolished??
Here again Jesus Christ used the two edged Sword of THE WORD OF GOD to defeat His enemies – and this is that WORD — “YOU” — want to abolish??
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Jesus Christ did the WORKS of His Father, Christ came to reveal the Father and to glorify the Father by His words and deeds and Jesus Christ accomplished that task to Perfection.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
If – YOU — yet demand the WORD of GOD be abolished, —YOU — are then defenseless in the eyes of Satan the Devil, — YOU – are now with out that two edged Spiritual Sword that Paul instruct us to use.
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Your argument hinges on weather the Torah was being referenced when Jesus was speaking in Mat 4:4
However the emphasis is not regarding the written word (Logos) but rather the living word (Rhema).
5. Mat 4:4 But he answered and said , It is written , Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word (Rhema) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Many of these rhema words coincide with Jesus’ and the disciples ministry, which implies that the rhema word was a fresh word, a revelation, a prophecy, a word of knowledge, one that the people needed in the moment. It also can be seen as the way that preaching works in the life of the believer.
gordon
what you are trying to establish is that God changes His Way, If that were so how could you know if what you believe now has not been changed again?
The God I follow does not ever change HE is the same today and tomorrow.
Gordon in the battle with Satan does Christ not state “it is written”? And are the statements used to defeat Satan not from Deuteronomy?
Gordon did or did not Jesus Christ live a sinless life?? if so what is sin?
LOL where does it imply they are fresh words?? Gordon just acknowledge you will not obey the Word of God, do not try to cleverly out fox God.
God does not change but He has changed the covenant by which we live. Prior to the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Yeshua the law which was delivered by angels was designed to teach man that he couldn’t be righteous by his own accomplishments. Yet as the new covenant came about man was introduced to the righteousness of God. Literally if you wanted salvation you got it by trusting (having faith) in what Jesus Yeshua accomplished. So God hasn’t changed but how man finds acceptance has.
Further more the need for rhema understanding was necessary to carry us into a new dispensation with God. We moved from OT obligation, into the time that Christ was on earth and was slated for the Cross to finally participating in all the advantages of His death, burial and resurrection.
Jesus quoted scripture in the gospels because he had yet to defeat the devil at the Cross.
The New testament writers offer valid examples of scripture which reveal the plan of God from a new covenant perspective.
gordon
Ah dispensations — the method men use to say that God changes direction and Law etc.
Gordon if you will read Paul you will find the only part of the Covenant that was changed was the promises — nothing else changed.
Hebrews 8
7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with — them, — he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah:
Paul states: The “FAULT” is with the people — NOT — with – the – LAW !
Removing the Law as the contractual duty of the people i.e. the consideration, simply invalidates the contract. A contract without a consideration is not a valid contract.
To make this clear: if you were to agree to buy a house and the contract contained no purchase price, no agreement to pay a certain price for the house – it would be an unenforceable contract.
If the New Covenant only contained God’s promises with nothing required from the People, it would be no longer a valid contract i.e. a Covenant.
Lets be clear, if God simply made a ‘promise’ to the people — that requires nothing on the part of the people; BUT for it to be a contract between God and the people then to receive the promise of God the people must DO SOMETHING in exchange for receiving the promise otherwise it is not a contract it would simply be a “promise”.
And as Paul states the Law is not the problem – the problem is the people!
Paul is making a case for a change with the people — not the Law.
If the Law were simply removed how would that benefit the people?
Removing the Law does not change the people they would still fight and murder, still worship idols, still fornicate and still steal.
If the Law were removed then murder etc. would no longer be sin. If there is no law against murder then it is not a crime.
How is it that you people do not understand the logic behind this fact: for there to be SIN there MUST Be a Law that codifies what SIN IS !
The Whole purpose of the First Covenant was to motivate the children of Israel to obey the LAW and thus NOT SIN. It is that simple!
If Israel obeyed God’s Law, God would then physically bless them. See Leviticus 26: 4 – 13.
Since the purpose of the Covenant was to motivate the People to obey the Law would it not make more sense to leave the Law intact and “CHANGE THE PEOPLE” ?
The New Covenant states: God is going to change the people and does not mention the law. The Law remains and God is now putting the Torah i.e. HIS Law in them.
In verse 10 below God is telling us He is putting HIS Torah into our minds and in our hearts i.e. our nature: in the New Covenant God is agreeing to changes the very nature of His people.
God has agreed to change our carnal human nature by removing that evil nature and in its place creating HIS Holy Divine Nature.
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, (1) and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
The reason for the need of a new contract; the People could not and would not obey the contract i.e. covenant. Their natures were and actually still are evil, their natures are wholly given to vanity, jealousy, lust and greed.
10 “For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel —–“after” those days, —-saith the Lord; “
“I will put “my laws” into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: “
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord”: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
God’s divine nature is revealed to Israel by HIS LAW, by HIS Torah and God is now beginning to create, first within the House of Israel, His Holy Divine Righteous Nature within His Chosen People Israel, that Divine Holy Righteous Nature of God is to become their “nature”.
Thus no one will need to teach another because all shall know and have in them that Holy Righteous Divine Nature of God the Father and will want to live that Holy WAY.
Where did Paul get the information he wrote above, Paul was quoting from Jeremiah 31: 31 – 34.
Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant — they – brake, (1) although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
The translators removed the above (1) from the KJV: the First Covenant was a marriage contract between Christ and the children of Israel.
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make — with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put – my law – in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And what do you think God was stating with the phrase “Write it in their hearts”? Do you think He meant the Law is written with a pen on our organ that pumps blood?? That is beyond silly – when Christ stated He knew what was in the heart of man He was specifically pointing out our evil natures.
Our Father is changing, is converting, our nature. With out that conversion no one will ever be able to obey the Law of Righteousness – ever!
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
If your only point is that the law didn’t go away then I agree.
However if the law was set within our hearts and minds then the implementation of that law is not something that we try to uphold by natural means.
The transition (or change in dispensation) then suggests that the law is set within us not to condemn us (as in the first covenant) but to allow us to live holy lives by the power of God. To walk by the Holy Spirit (in the Spirit) is to keep the requirements of the law.
The moment you take up the charge to fulfill the law by your own agenda is when you place yourself back under the task master.
Gordan
God is changing our “natures” so we will love the Law of God and be able to live by it.
I do not like the word “hearts” it is our carnal human nature that we inherited from Adam that must be converted and become like our Father’s nature.
The Torah reveals the divine Holy Nature of the God Family to man.
the only way man can live by the law of God is by the circumcision without hands that cuts away our nature and replaces it with God’s Divine nature.
Gordon
You are wasting your time arguing with troothytits# xxx.
He accepts there is no distinction between this law and that and that it is repeatedly emphasized that if one law is not obeyed all law is not to be. That is is utterly dead. That it is so to everyone. That torah was for slaves like him. That thepeople through their king was chosen and not the law. He has NOTHING but pharisaisms. He just wont shut up.
Almost every word that Jesus spoke came from the Old Testament.
Matthew 4:4 > Deuteronomy 8:3
He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD
…seeker…You can’t help any body to receive any understanding of salvation….you’d need two thousand words, and 85 references, to get to the point where YOU would believe you’ve sent them off in the right direction…and still they would not be saved, in your mind…or theirs.
…All anybody needs to be saved, RIGHT NOW, is the simple act of ASKING FOR IT, in truth and faith in the LORD Jesus Christ and His resurrection……that’s it….and that puts all of you self-important overcooked worshipers of the word….out of business…
…When the veil was torn, top to bottom, we were given access to the Lord….and we don’t need you and your ilk to “reign’ it over the rest of us, telling us that if we don’t accept the way YOU understand…we don’t have the truth.
…I believe that all of you ” wordy word bible thumpers” are strictly in this stuff as a distraction….You don’t even have the discernment to see that your PHILOSOPHY is self centered and egotistically vainglorious. If you could, you would love yourself, but YOU have never been forgiven, for your patronizing attitude or your intellectual pride in all you, THINK, you know.
…’the thinker, thinks he thinks…THAT is his error.’ Try to understand that.
…The Holy Spirit is knocking on your concrete reinforced mind, as we speak….and you are still “seeking”.
..A GREAT man like yourself…must be torn down totally to be “the new man” Christ needs us to be……
A GREAT man like yourself…must be torn down totally to be “the new man” Christ needs us to be……
May we all be inspired to obtain the same.
maxxy
You are correct, I do not find one or two scriptures and then make those two a doctrine — I put ALL of the scriptures that apply together and then the Doctrine of God is clear.
Take for example your statement below:
…”All anybody needs to be saved, RIGHT NOW, is the simple act of ASKING FOR IT, in truth and faith in the LORD Jesus Christ and His resurrection”
Maxxy if that were true God is doing a very poor job of saving folks, what happens in your mind to the 5 out of 7 that have no knowledge of Jesus Christ? out of 7 billion only about 2 billion claim to be some flavor or type of christian — and hardly 2 agree on much.
Are 5 billion lost or is there more then one day of salvation?
And are the catholic that worship Mary and the bones of the dead- saved along with the JW’s and rapture folks and the born again and the Pentecostals etc. ?? that is confusion personified!
Also what do you do with the statement by Jesus Christ that states if God the Father does NOT FIRST CALL a person they can NOT come to Christ — it is not at all as simple act of asking for it! John 6: 44
and what of Matthew 7: 21 that states not every one that says LORD LORD shall enter the kingdom? These folks did many wonderful works and Christ said He knew them not.
Maxxy and Gordon I have been “torn down” over the last 47 years, I have been high and then taken down over and over, I have lost almost every thing but my life and then I am restored.
I know who I follow, I know who I worship!
…And, Boy, are you proud of it.
maxxy,
“proud of it?” No I am ecstatic with joy that my Father has never left me since I was called into His Ecclesia in 1969.
I am a worthless piece of garbage that has no right to have gained the knowledge of the TRUTH. No right to the blessings I have experienced over these decades.
What I have earned is death — my Father has patience beyond my comprehension, I would have cast me into the lake of Fire long ago.
One time I was in dire need of money, a friend walk into my office one day and said i have not done any thing for you lately so come with me.
We went to a real estate office and my friend told the broker to give me half of the commission on a piece of land he was buying. Back in 1987 $30,000.00 was the equivalent of $75,000 to day. I said thank you very very much.
There is not time to run through the list of blessings my Father has showered upon me all these years.
No! not proud — thankful beyond measure.
But I am angry at the depth of deception Satan has been able to bring upon the willing nations of Israel. I look forward to Satan being put away for 1000 years.
All that will submit to the Authority of our Father and His Son will be blessed as well — but as the 7 year time of the end is almost upon us it will be over 7 years before those blessing will come.
…seeker…your just about my age…generation of the fig tree…i was always spiritual, and expressed with art and music. my early experiences with Christianity, was kinder grden in a catholic orphanage in Pueblo, Colorado. My Dad was more of a Christian, than the rest of this Italian Catholic family. Catechism classes…I was totally lost…nuns scared me and the priests tried to.
I wasn’t a serious student till after I dropped out, and joined a Rock band. The rest of my life is a story of semi-pro remodeling, and weekends playing Blues in local bars.
…two years ago, i was struck down by whats called a “spiral dissection of the aorta”. i spent 24 hours in surgery and 4 months in the hospital. I lay there for a couple of weeks, kind of buzzed on pain killers..all wired up with intravenous hook ups..private room.
…No insurance..two surgeons, with a thoracic team from Kentucky. Not billed a dollar, and i had the same thing happen to me in 1995…went trout fishing, hiking down to the stream…when i trie to climb out…i could not…
…ended up getting surgery to replace a defective Aortic valve…thoracic team from St. Jude’s in Kentucky or Tennessee…Records for the first operation…could not be found..when they tried to look it up. While the
dude was fixing my Aorta another fellow took a look at my heart valve…said it was pristine, and like no other he’d ever seen. He found a serial number on the valve…and could not find anything about it, or about the team that flew into Colorado Springs, and saved my life…the whole thing was done and i was in recovery in 48 hours.
…since my last surgery, I’ve had what’s called a “quickening”. For a crippled, geriatric, heart patient, I’m doing fine..I cook really well, so I’ve always got company. my mom is my responsibility, now she’s 85, with late stage Alzheimer’….And I am the happiest I’ve ever been, but I’m also as unstable as I’ve ever been. My wife talked me into seeing a shrink…really good fellow..understands why “conspiracy theories”, are, becoming our reality….
….The Holy Spirit, has been with me, for a couple years, but I’ve always been waiting for Him. I know the beginning, and the end. The rest is fervent prayer, and a load of common sense.
…I’ve never, in my life been been dishonest, or greedy. I build furniture and paint and sculpt. i am ‘consecrated’ and i’ve not done any of the things, you say are necessary, for salvation…the closest i ever got was learning the ‘rosary’ in kindergarten.
…That’s my story.
…Mayhem… Christ fulfilled the Law…those individuals who have accepted the Holy Spirit, have the same fulfillment. Its a forever deal..and all the rituals and traditions are completely irrelevant to them…their “search” is completed…They stand now with Christ against the “son of perdition”..as they did at the Katabole, at the end of the first world age.
The law and the Gospel are intimately connected. They are closely associated. If the divine law had never been transgressed, there would have been no need of the Gospel. Since the basis of God’s government and authority is the immutable law, when this divine code was violated, a remedy for sin was essential. The saving grace of God is His only remedy.” -F.C.Gilbert “Messiah in His Sanctuary” p. 20
“It was impossible for the sinner to keep the law of God, which was holy, just, and good; but this impossibility was removed by the impartation of the righteousness of Christ to the repenting, believing soul. The life and death of Christ in behalf of sinful man were for the purpose of restoring the sinner to God’s favor, through imparting to him the righteousness that would meet the claims of the law and find acceptance with the Father.
But it is ever the purpose of Satan to make void the law of God and to pervert the true meaning of the plan of salvation. Therefore he has originated the falsehood that the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary’s cross was for the purpose of freeing men from the obligation of keeping the commandments of God. He has foisted upon the world the deception that God has abolished His constitution, thrown away His moral standard, and made void His holy and perfect law. Had He done this, at what terrible expense would it have been to Heaven! Instead of proclaiming the abolition of the law, Calvary’s cross proclaims in thunder tones its immutable and eternal character. Could the law have been abolished, and the government of heaven and earth and the unnumbered worlds of God maintained, Christ need not have died. The death of Christ was to forever settle the question of the validity of the law of Jehovah. Having suffered the full penalty for a guilty world, Jesus became the Mediator between God and man, to restore the repenting soul to favor with God by giving him grace to keep the law of the Most High. Christ came not to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfill them to the very letter. The atonement of Calvary vindicated the law of God as holy, just, and true, not only before the fallen world but before heaven and before the worlds unfallen. Christ came to magnify the law and to make it honorable.” -Faith and Works page 118
Well.. Putting it simple, the Devil hates the Law of God because …”by the Law is the knowledge of sin.” (Romans 3:20) so he has to attack it and make it trivial in the eyes of the people! If the devil can keep you from looking in the “Biblical mirror” or using the “measuring rod” which is in fact the Law of God, he has won. He wants to prevent the world from looking to the Ten Commandments. He knows that if the people peer into the Law they WILL realize they are in sin, and they will also realize they are in need of a Saviour.
We don’t keep the Ten Commandments to get Jesus in us. It is when we accept Him and receive in us that we keep them. Think of it this way… People in the prisons are NOT released from prison on parole until they can prove they will keep the laws of the land. Why would the Almighty be any different? Why would He let those that break His law into His kingdom? If you can’t keep the laws of His land, why should He let you into it? Now do you understand why it is written in, Revelation 22:14, “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
The awesome think about the New Covenant is that Jesus will HELP us keep His Law!
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” -1 John 5:3,
Amminadab
Under the first contract the law was physical for a physical people and when Christ came He filled it up!
Christ filled it to the full — the law is now also Spiritual and can be transgressed in our minds and not just with our hands.
Amminadab do you also understand Jeremiah 31; 31 – 34? The Torah i.e. the Law is being put in our nature — it will become natural for the converted person to love and live by the Holy Law of God.
troothytits # xxx
When you are the victim of a breaker of THE REAL LAW do you phone a SDA minister with a baseball bat and a car with a big trunk or do you call the police authorities that St Paul said you were to call?
How may lawgivers are there?
“There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.” James 4:12.
What is said of the stability of His character?
“For I am the Lord, I change not.” Mal. 3:6.
What is the character of His works?
“The works of His hands are verity and judgment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.” Ps. 111:7, 8.
What is the character of His law?
“For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Rom. 7:14.
What is revealed in that law as necessary for the carnal man to know before he can be converted?
“And knowest His will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law.” Rom. 2:18.
Then, if there is a change in one’s life, from the carnal to the spiritual, does the law act any part in that work?
“The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.” Ps. 19:7.
What did our Saviour say to the young man who wanted salvation?
“And He said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but One, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matt. 19:17.
Was it the intention of Christ to abolish or change any part of God’s law?
“For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matt. 5:18.
What did the Saviour say He came to do to the law?
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” Matt. 5:17.
When used in prophecy, what does the word fulfill mean? To bring to pass.
“That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet.” (Matt. 4:14). “Then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Cor. 15:54.
But what does the word mean associated with an obligation? – To perform, or act in accordance with.
“Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” Gal. 6:2 (Matt. 3:15) (James 2:8, 9).
What did Christ say He came into the world to do?
“Wherefore, when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldst not… Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me) to do Thy will, O God.” Heb. 10:5-7.
Who did the Saviour say should be saved in the kingdom of heaven?
“Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.” Matt. 7:21.
What did He say of those who should break one of God’s commandments?
“Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.” Matt. 5:19.
What did He say of those whose righteousness (right-doing) did not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees?
“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Matt. 5:20.
On what particular point did Christ reprove the Pharisees?
“But He answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?” Matt. 15:3.
How had they done this?
“For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother;… but ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift,… and honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.” Matt. 15:4-6.
What kind of worship did He say theirs was?
“But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Matt. 15:9.
By what rule will men’s actions be weighed in the judgment?
“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law; and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,… in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.” Rom 2:12-16.
How many of those who are condemned will be proved guilty by the law at that time?
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, It saith to them who are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.” Rom. 3:19.
By whom will the saved be blessed in the bestowal of the eternal reward?
“Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” Matt. 25:34.
What blessing will God give to those who have kept His commandments?
“Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.” Rev. 22:14.
Lets simplify this to ONE thought, one logical statement.
Lets just see if even — one – will attempt to refute the following statement?
If the Torah i.e the Law – all of it — the Commandments, the Statues and the Judgments, were nailed to the stake and abolished then how can there be such a thing as sin?
If there is no longer a Law stating it is sin to murder — how can it be a sin to murder?
Define sin.
That which will make you go to hell?
There’s no hell in the torah.
You are a slave to a sin that does not exist.
Murder? Be executed and rot in the grave.
Be murdered? Rot in the grave.
Murder? Be executed and rot in the grave.
Be murdered? Be executed and rot in the grave.
Your statement needs to take into account that freewill can choose to be back under the law based on inappropriate actions. If you murder then the law condemns you.
Gordon
The Law does not condemn, God condemns, the Law is the light that exposes sin.
The Law simply points out the fact that you have transgressed the Law, Christ is actually the judge that condemns and issues the judgment of death.
the Law defines sin, the law simply codifies what has been determined by God to BE SIN.
1 John 3: 4 — how can John make this statement if the Law was abolished? Gordon can you answer this simple question?
With out the light of the law to expose what sin IS how else would we know what IS sin?
I am no longer “under” the “”condemnation”" of the Law, I am still obligated to obey the Law but Jesus Christ has removed the penalty of death I had earned by sinning against my Father.
Gordon I am still gladly UNDER the authority of my Father and His Son’s government, I am still subject to their authority. When a person states they are not under the Law they are actually saying they are no longer subject to the authority of GOD!
gordon and maxxy
I just added a thought to the paper and wanted you both to have an opportunity to find a way around this scripture as you do others.
Did Jesus Christ as He finished His Sermon on the Mount reveal to mankind an astounding insight??
Christ told those listening to His sermon they must become PERFECT — AS — our FATHER in heaven is — PERFECT!
48 ” Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect”
.
Christ lived totally and completely by the WILL of the Father! Everything Jesus Christ said and did was what the FATHER showed HIM to say and do. Every thing Christ ‘was’, said and did was PERFECT – in exact accord with the WILL of the FATHER and thus WAS PERFECT JUST LIKE OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS PERFECT.
SO!!! If living by the LAW i.e. the Torah, the Prophets and the Psalms is PERFECT and is exactly the mind of GOD the Father — did Christ then turn from that PERFECT WAY and abolish THE LAW THE PROPHETS AND PSALMS?
Face the logic: if our Father is heaven is perfect and Christ copied that perfect WAY to perfection — are we now to live another way? Are there two perfect WAYS??
Christ just told those listening to His sermon THEY must become perfect just like the FATHER in Heaven — and then Christ changed that PERFECT WAY which is living by the Commandments, the Statues and the Judgments ??
Turning from the WAY of the FATHER which is PERFECTION is to turn to the way of SATAN which is lawlessness !!!!!
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
======
As clear as it can be troothytits:
If you want to ENTER INTO LIFE keep the commandments.
If you want to BE PERFECT follow me.
You want to enter (sneak) into a life. That is behind your Torah fetish.
Your Torah fetish is YOUR possession troothytits.
Before dawn. TroothyTits in his little motor boat. Bug eyed. Muttering beneath his breath. Silver Torah scroll under his arm. Going to wherever deep deep in the woods he and his fellow SDA priests have hidden the lost ark of the covenant in the holy oh holies they have rebuilt for it.
Banjo music begins …
Face the logic: if our Father is heaven is perfect and Christ copied that perfect WAY to perfection — are we now to live another way? Are there two perfect WAYS??
Yes!
The first covenant demands that all men be held to the standard and the new covenant demanded the standard be held by one.
Philippians 3:7-9 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
Let me add that Paul spoke about being “in Him” as the key to having a righteousness not his own. There are over one hundred and fifty references in the New Testament regarding being “in Christ” (in Christ, in Jesus, in God, in Spirit and in Him.) Some of those references simply invite us to identify with Him, but many specifically describe where we dwell and how the Son of God sustains us within that place of Spiritual serenity and security.
2 Corinthians 5:21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
I – am surely a muslim- Aden
aden your “brilliance” is like a shinning star, your words are highly intelligent and enlightening, so to speak.
I can hardly wait until your next regurgitated utterance. how about next week or better yet next year. I can hardly wait until your next pouring out of regurgitated middle east “enlightenment”.
The answer is simple truthobfuscator He “God the Holy Spirit” indwells us, to give us His Perfection, “imputed righteousness” in our hearts, this is a HUGE PROBLEM for you to comprehend and understand as you don’t believe “He” exists “God the Holy Spirit”.. like the churches DO….so your flogging a dead horse with your argument…the Law was “NULLIFIED” BUT bares witness against US for sin BUT those now IN the “Body of Christ” (“Born Again”) the “Law of Sin and Death” has NOW been NULLIFIED as He paid it for us Once and for ALL, and we pass from death unto life eternal….
Crazy you are partly correct, it is the Father’s Spirit dwelling in us that leads us into perfection but it does impute righteousness into our “hearts”? what every that means.
Crazy, Christ stated we must become “converted” to enter the Kingdom — what is being converted??
It is our carnal nature that the spirit begins to convert from carnal human nature into the Divine Holy righteous nature of the Father and THAT PERFECT nature of the FATHER is understood by the LAW!
Crazy read the comment to gordon and maxxy above — then tell me exactly why verse 48 that came from the mouth of Jesus Christ is wrong when it tells us we must become perfect JUST LIKE THE FATHER i.e just like the LAW GIVER,
If you do not live by the HOLY LAW of the Father then you are lawless just like Satan.
correction
It does NOT impute righteousness: those converted saints of God are righteous in the sight of the Father because their debt of death for sin has been paid by Jesus Christ.
crazy are there two perfect way? one before the death and another after the death of Christ.
If that is so then Jesus Christ never lived the 2nd perfect way He only live by the Torah, the Prophets and Psalms — which He states is the PERFECT WAY of HIS FATHER.
No crazy I reject completely the false doctrine of a trinity. I follow nothing invented by the Roman catholic pagan church.
I follow Jesus Christ as HE follows our FATHER,
crazy one more thought:
What was it that made Jesus Christ perfect ??
crazy are there two perfect way? one before the death and another after the death of Christ.
Yes again. But this place of perfection is for each believer in Jesus. The word confirms that all believers also died with Jesus to become a new creation.
Romans 6:6-7 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
crazy, maxxy and gordon
I can not over come the false doctrine you all have been infected by.
If you all believe God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are living conflicting “perfect Ways’, one is lawful and the other has no law, no amount of scripture or logic I could bring will open your minds.
I can bring, and have, dozens of scriptures spoken by the mouth of Christ stating we are to live by every WORD of God and that WORD is the LAW — if the mouth of Christ means nothing to you — who am I ???
They did not believe Christ when He walked on this earth and even now the vast majority refuse to listen to His Words.
This relates to your last reply (there is no reply button on it so I am using this dialog for access))
You said
“No amount of scripture or logic could open our minds.”
If you are a follower of the one true King of Kings and Lord of Lords, then with time more understanding will be added to you. I have not been in a contest to change you but rather present the facts regarding the larger message of scripture. God is the same but we in our knowledge need to catch up and when we do there is righteousness, peace and joy.
By all means follow the law out to its eventual conclusion. You can do this based on your own works or you can come to know how Jesus Yeshua worked it all out for you.
Every disciple of Jesus gives up the right to hold onto their own wisdom in order to gain the mind of Christ. It just takes longer for some to question their religion.
gordon
the conclusion of the Law, the purpose of the Law is Perfection.
We are to seek the perfection found in Christ, that example of perfection He left for us to follow.
The 5 Books of Moses came from the mouth of God and is that WAY of perfection that Christ had to live to become our Passover.
Paul in Hebrews 6 also teaches the followers of Jesus Christ to go on into perfection.
Paul states once you have the foundation of the Doctrines of Jesus Christ use them and go on into perfection
1 “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
there are not two different WAYS one lawful and one without law.
GOD IS ONE!
…Seeker…Your view point IS lawless…Christ brought to the Generation of the fig tree, eyes to see, the truth of the times.
…It actually looks to me, that you have not been baptized into the liberation that the Holy Spirit, affords us…
…You could pray every minute of every day and follow every tradition that is contained in the WORD, and if you don’t SEE, what’s going on with ‘SPIRITUAL” eyes…its like you went to the ball game instead.
…the truth of these times we share here, is that, the Holy Spirit, GOD’S spirit, is here, now, bestowing immortality on the lovers of Christ…and all the traditions from the Garden to this minute are not even considered, in the determination.
…Seeker, I know its gonna be hard on you, when you find out that your interpretation of the Holy Word of God…has been made moot…but that IS the final condition of ALL of men’s traditions. from rolling eggs on easter, to the “LAWS”.
…God’s elect have become the Law…
…Nothing is ever gonna be the same for you ever again. Accept that the Holy spirit is here for you now!!
…You’ve spent your whole life, patiently waiting for these times, and there you are telling other folks, many of whom know what’s going on, what they need to do to be SAVED, and your lack of affinity with Spiritual discernment, and plain old ‘common sense’ puts you in mortal danger, of preaching anti-christian, false ‘end times’ doctrine.
…I don’t expect you to get any edification from my “long-winded dissertation”…but i had to try…one more time…I would never ever lie to you, nor ever give you anything but honest self realization. I do care about your current, stiff-necked, attitude, and what it could do to your soul.
This relates to your last reply (there is no reply button on it so I am using this dialog for access))
If you are going quote Paul you need to understand the foundation of what he believes. Allowing Paul to be the last word on the subject I present the following.
Romans 3:19-28 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Meditate on this awhile and you will come to understand that you need more understanding that can only come from above.
Bless you in your search
gordon
Paul was a brilliant scholar, he understood the Torah perfectly and as his teaching is so deep it has caused many problems and even more so today.
In fact Peter warned us that Paul is hard to understand and they which are unlearned (in the Torah) and unstable twist unto their own destruction,
Gordon I have obeyed the Law since 1969 and never have I done the “works of the Law”.
The works of the Law is the Sacrificial Law which was added as Paul also mentioned, because of transgressions.
Jesus Christ fulfilled all 5 types of sacrifices by His death, animal sacrifice was the school master that led us to Christ. Animal sacrifice, which is very hard work, shows us sin demands death.
I do not obey the HOLY LAW of God to be righteous I obey because my Master Jesus Christ commands me to do so.
Gordon, we are admonished over and over to repent — if the law is abolished what is there to repent of? Not loving our neighbor? please explain exactly what I must perform to show love to my neighbor.
Cut your demon worshipping Satanic crap TroothyTits!
You are done here!
You push your demon lies and disinformation for one reason only:
YOU are a racial Zionist. It’s SEEN ALSO in your gibberish about the Germanic people being polluted deranged versions of a bunch of other ACTUALLY DERANGED Germans who think that they are the literal descendants of King David (and / or Mary Magdelin).
The only reason you need the law is because the biblical message of Jesus and St Paul is that ALL peoples BABIES are Judah and their FATHERS Israel (theirs AND ours).
THAT is the ONLY lesson.
As a shabbos goy to the center of your rotten rotten corrupt satan worshipping rancid soul … this fact …IS KILLING YOU.
Your ‘Law’ crap is a diversion tactic. It doesn’t work.
aden
what is your special goat or sheep’s name?
It would be a help if you could put together one sentence that made sense.
maybe you should first work on that problem before you attempt to attack me with lies and just plain nonsense.
See THIS is why I KNOW that you are a troll TroothyTits!
Every time you are in any way exposed you fall back to your libtard default mode: that other people’s not making sense necessarily means that they – hurr de garbledy gurbeldy durr durr – are retards and NOT that YOU (who are not a 75 years old man!) are just a freaking MORON!
…HEAR YE…HEAR YE…truth seeker Himself will sit in judgement here, to determine who is eligible for salvation, and who is repugnant in his own eyes.
…Remember, if you don’t believe in his version of Christianity….you will be found un-savable…no matter what Jesus told us in the New Testament. Truth seeker IS the judge because he is certain he knows all about everything religious….especially HIS version of christianity,(lower case).
Instead of grandiose proclamations, Maxxy, you might better spend your time answering Truthseeker’s simplest of questions…
1 John 3: 4 — how can John make this statement if the Law was abolished?
… unless, of course, your ego lets you feel like you’ve won simply because you’ve claimed to have done so.
Maxxy
Jesus Christ walked the Promised Land for 3 ½ years delivering the message; “REPENT for the kingdom of God is at hand”.
Christ selected and called the 12 apostles and Paul and commissioned them to do the same which they did and did well
I am posting papers on repentance and following Jesus Christ – as – HE — follows our Father and using the exact words of Jesus and His Apostles to confirm that exact message.
AND YOU ACCUSE ME OF SITTING IN JUDGEMENT AND TEACHING MY OWN VERSION??
Maxxy you and the vast majority have chosen that “broad way” that leads to destruction, that broad way the majority follows and because I believe my Savior and follow that very narrow way that few find, I am thus wrong because I do not agree with the large body of so called Christians?
I must reject logic and common sense and clear scriptures so I can be accepted by the deceived masses ?? NEVER!
I completely reject that broad way and the 4000 flavors of so called Christianity.
My Father has shown me the true value of Logic, HIS logic, which I use. None have even attempted to refute the logic incorporated into the papers I post on BIN.
Those following that broad way select a few twistable scriptures and reject dozens and dozens of clear scriptures – clear words from the mouth of Jesus Christ and His apostles.
Mayhem gave good advice:
“Instead of grandiose proclamations, Maxxy, you might better spend your time answering Truthseeker’s simplest of questions…”
1 John 3: 4 — how can John make this statement if the Law was abolished?
Maxxy this is your chance to refute the logic, to refute to make clear the statement of the Apostle John.
Explain by scripture by logic by common sense how it can be possible for John to make this statement IF THE TORAH, THE LAW WAS NAILED TO THE STAKE AND ABOLISHED?
How is it possible to repent of transgressing an abolished Law?
This opportunity is extend to all, feel free to refute, explain or clear up 1 John 3;4
But please do not expect me to fall for the false doctrine there are TWO WAYS — God in not divided, God is not confusion.
Jesus Christ and His FATHER ARE ONE!
…Mayhem…Christ came to FULFILL the law…HE paid the price…He took the ‘stripes’, we get the ‘healing’.
…These “end times” have opened up the Truth…the unabridged truth…Its there for the little ones before its available to the “proud and learned”….
…Christ became the LAW…HE said so…The Holy spirit instills this law int the hearts of those that love him…first…more than anything else…most of all, our own intellect…It doesn’t come easy…takes a lot work, and a lot of humility….one thing that our resident “Scholars”, have problems with.
Maxxy,
You and crazy make incomplete statements like “ Christ came to “fulfill” the Law meaning to you, He came to finish it and to end it — but you like all the others never use ALL the scriptures and you never look at the meaning of the words. And you never seem to compare one scripture with another.
And you jump on me because I DO! I use too many words???? Really? I will use them ALL!
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
◄ 4137. pléroó ►
Strong’s Concordance
pléroó: to make full, to complete
Original Word: πληρόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pléroó
Phonetic Spelling: (play-ro’-o)
Short Definition: I fill, fulfill, complete
Definition: I fill, fulfill, complete.
The word pleroo means to fill, to complete, to fill up and Christ did just that – it was only physical and now it is also spiritual; now if you murder only in your thoughts you are sinning.
Now the Law IS Complete, it is both physical and spiritual. Why is it that you can not understand that simple fact?
please why do you all ignore the phrase just before it: ——“I come not to destroy”? that statement is with out confusion. But you and crazy must think Christ just has no idea the Law is a burden and is evil and must be abolished.
18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
HERE IN JESUS CHRIST OWN WORDS HE STATES WITH CLEAR MEANING IF YOU TEACH MEN TO BREAK –ONE OF THE LEAST COMMANDMENT YOU ARE THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM — AND YOU AND CRAZY TEACH WE ARE TO IGNORE “ALL” THE HOLY COMMANDMENTS OF GOD the whole Torah.
So where does that place you in the eyes of God?
If this is a “scholarly” approach then yes this is the way I will rightly divide (study) the Word of God.
This is a puzzlement to me — how on earth can you say Christ became the Law, He did become sin for us and died in our stead but “become the law”? Oh I just got it — if Christ became the Law then the law was nailed to the stake.
Sorry that is illogical and faulty thinking if the Law was nailed to the stake then there is no further need for the sacrifice of Christ as sin could not exist.
There is no sin if there is no law!
And all born after the death of Christ would not at all need the sacrifice and the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ as there would be no such thing as sin.
Maxxy I am taking the time to explain not so much for you but for others that may be following our conflict.
Let them judge between your comments and mine.
truthtrasher i gave you the answer to verse 48 already ?
Look under my reply “The answer is simple” particularly where it says
“He “God the Holy Spirit” indwells us,
to give us 
His Perfection 
, “imputed righteousness” in our hearts, this is a HUGE PROBLEM for you to comprehend and understand
You…”then tell me exactly”
I DID !!!?
YOU.. Christ stated we must become “converted” to enter the Kingdom — what is being converted??
Being born from above being
“Born Again” 
“what is flesh is flesh what is Spirit is Spirit”…… “YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN”…John 3:3
You…..If you do not live by the HOLY LAW of the Father then you are lawless just like Satan.
No !! you’ve been told many many times we are NOT lawless we are under the “Law of Christ” under the glorious New covenant which you’ve rejected as you do also with the Churches, to your own demise.
You….I follow Jesus Christ as HE follows our FATHER,
That is…. YOU HAVE to be baptized to
“FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS” 
Matthew 3:15
Mark 10:39
“and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.”
Matthew 3:16
16After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
THE “SPIRIT OF GOD” GOD the SPIRIT (AKA) “GOD the HOLY SPIRIT” NO-LESS…the One you Say “HE” DOESN’T”T EXIST as you’ve rejected the Triune God of the Churches….It’s your choice i know, but a bad one at that.
So WHO are you really following ???…obviously NOT.. “as it is written”.the true Church born @Pentecost in Acts 1:8…..when “God the Holy Spirit” created the True Church .
You….What was it that made Jesus Christ perfect ??
He was/is the CREATOR in the FLESH …from ABOVE, a Triune God made manifest….when you see me you see the Father..John 14:9. the Holy Spirit descended on Him “(IN HIM) Matthew 3:16(to do the things He did)….now the SON is Emmanuel “GOD WITH US”…. for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.,John 5:19
Holy Holy Holy IS the LORD of Hosts Isaiah 6:3, who, who, who, IS to come the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY rev 1:8 the SAME GOD who came @ Pentecost Acts 1:8 Rev 1:8 a Triune GOD.
All this is hidden from you Seeker as you really don’t want the TRUTH
You just want to boast that you did this or that, kept this or that, Saturn day instead of Sunday , the bible say’s
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.Ephesians 2:8
Gordon you wrote
“crazy are there two perfect way? one before the death and another after the death of Christ.”
These are not my word they come from truthdenier
we appear to be on the same page as yet , truthobjector on the other-hand is a Church hater just so you know, have a great day
Adieu
deludedtruth said…None have even attempted to refute the logic incorporated into the papers I post on BIN.
Bahawahahahahaha Ive gotta go now before i wet myself
What POSTS !!!! you’ve REMOVED them ALL and this one will be gone soon enough…
Hahahahahah really deluded don’t bother maxxy as he will just trash his article like all the others …go figure !
CRAZY
Crazy this is your chance to refute that logic, to refute, to make clear the statement of the Apostle John which I affirm clearly shows the LAW is in full force today.
We are being judged by the Torah, the LAW exactly as was Jesus Christ.
Explain by scripture, by logic, by common sense how it can be possible for John to make this statement:
IF THE TORAH, THE LAW WAS NAILED TO THE STAKE AND ABOLISHED?
1 John 3;4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.”
How is it possible to repent of transgressing an abolished Law?
Crazy I included verse 5 as it shows exactly what Christ took away — not the LAW —- He took away our SINS.
It is only by blood sin is justified. Blood does not take away LAW! Except in the minds of those Satan has deceived.
here is your own comment:
John 14:9. the Holy Spirit descended on Him “(IN HIM) Matthew 3:16(to do the things He did)….now the SON is Emmanuel “GOD WITH US”…. for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.,John 5:19.
Crazy you include a statement that as the Father obeys His own Law the Son does in like manner! I will follow the Son as HE FOLLOWS THE FATHER.
Christ was perfect because HE SINNED NOT, otherwise He could not become our PASSOVER!
crazy I removed my papers because I know “christians” will be coming for me soon. The world hated Jesus Christ and He states the christian world will hate His followers as well.
You are “one” of ‘them”, they can not hate you
crazy
the TRUE Church of God was observing together Pentecost, a Holy Feast of God — do you observe God’s Feast of Pentecost?
Why not the TRUE CHURCH of GOD DID AND STILL DOES ?
50 days after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the 120 Disciples of Christ were together of one accord keeping Holy the Feast of Pentecost.
Please show me where that Feast and the other 6 were abolished.
LOL it was only good for one more use??? NOPE!
PS have you ever read that during the 1000 year reign of Christ if the gentiles do not come to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles they will be punished? Zechariah 14: 16 – 21.
Zechariah does not speak of the nations of Israel as they will be in the Promised Land and they will be observing all of the Holy Feast of
God.
…Crazy…Wreck the post?
…I’m so tired of false teachers, and seeker will not ever have the eyes to see the truth he seeks….He knows it all, you see…
…I tested him over the last couple of evenings….and found not any cogent, shred of information, that lent any real end times value…at all.
…I even tried to pissed him off…no emotion…showing.
…I’m sure he’s a BA, or a “BS”, and believes in the ‘scolarly’,traditions.
… The OldTestment IS God’s Word, just like the New. I consult the old testment whenever I look for info…but I believe that seeker “worships’ these words…Its like buying a burger, and putting it on display, on the mantle.
.. The pure LOGIC, that Jesus imparted to us, has not escaped you crazy…but it definitely appears that the seeker, doesn’t have clue.
…I know he’s being as “wise” as he can be, without the grace of the Holy Spirit….but no-one can help with that…he’s made sure, that brain is locked tighter, than his understanding is hungry…I’d hate to be that ‘head in the sand’ type of person.
….i feel real sorry he’s in such a pickle, we all have free will, and we make choices. If seeker wants to believe that he needs all his ritual, (tradition), to be saved, rather than embracing the Holy Spirit, Christ’s and YHVH’s Spirit..RIGHT NOW, let him find out on his own. I tried everything…he’s just too much a sophist…for me to reach him…that doesn’t happen very often….
maxxy
if I am so wrong and confused — it must be a simple task for you to correctly answer my simple but foolish questions.
You only complain and you only state I am wrong but you NEVER PROVE OTHERWISE!
Answer for me maxxy the question I asked crazy, why if the TRUE Church of God met on the Feast of Pentecost and that is the day the Church of God begin why don’t christians keep that day todayl??
I keep asking simple questions and I get no logical or scriptural answers, crazy comes up with catholic answers and illogical nonsense.
“accept Christ into your heart” — not one person has come forward to explain what in the world that means?
Christ stated over and over if you love Me you will do what I tell you to do! He did not say just let me in your blood pumping heart.
“Why call you Me LORD LORD and do not the things I say?”
so crazy since you are born from above and are converted and born again of the spirit — I must then assume you are just like Christ said those born of Spirit would be, we can feel the wind but a human will not see the spirit born person. and that person can, just like Christ, walk through solid stone walls.
crazy if you bleed when cut you are flesh. A born again spirit has no blood,
I would also assume the circumcision without hands has been performed on you as well?
Conversion is being converted from carnal human nature into the Holy righteous Perfect Divine nature of God the Father.
the circumcision without hands spiritually cuts away our carnal nature and God the Father by HIS spirit builds in its place HIS Divine Holy Nature.
…seeker…I keep the Pascal, 14 days after the solstice…The feast days around Pentecost are kept graceful, around here. These are Jesus’s feast days and are not ‘anachronistic’. Fully relevant.
.but i don’t worship the WORDS that taught me about these holy days. the …words are relevant for education, but not as an idol that is worshiped instead of the Christ.
…I know you will deny worshiping the WORD instead of Christ, but you can’t see what you write as separate from your own spiritual identification…and that puts your dissertations, in a light that shows a bit of vanity and self service. I can’t see how you can be trustworthy to present your own interpretations of any scripture…You are leaning unto your own understanding, and attempting to pass your own private and peculiar interpretations off as gospel truth…. they are not…anyone with even a touch of spiritual discernment can tell that. You may be the most thorough studious man in the world, but if you don’t understand love and mercy, what does it mean?
…I would love to see you put all that away, and hearken to the call of the spirit of God, that is calling out to you, right this minute.
Maxxy
Jesus Christ came to reveal the Father and if you will read closely Matthew, Mark, Luke and John you will find we are taught by Jesus Christ to worship the Father and HIM ONLY.
I do not “worship the Word” but I strive to understand and live by “every WORD of GOD – and that includes every single WORD THAT COMES FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.
I love and obey my Master but I worship the Father as my Master did and as He taught His disciples to do. Worship means to copy or to imitate. Christ said to follow Him as He follows the Father. Paul essentially said the same thing.
We are to pray to the Father and ask Him for the things we need using the authority of Jesus Christ, in His name i.e. authority.
Maxxy one of the many things I have come to understand is we are living on earth for the purpose of learning to live by that same Divine Holy Righteous WAY that our Father and His Son live by and that Holy WAY is revealed by the Torah.
Do you think for one minute our Father will allow a rebellious law breaker like Satan into His Holy Family? In His great mercy our Father will put to death for ever all of those that refuse to obey that HOLY WAY.
I am happy to learn you keep Passover and Pentecost, do you keep the other 4 and the Sabbath?
Do you observe what is commonly called “the Lord’s supper”?
What Christ begin on the night of the 14th of Nisan is the spiritual Passover, the unleavened bread and the wine, His body and His blood.
Do you understand a day ends at sundown?
Maxxy I look at all scripture from a logical perspective as does Christ, and when I read : “Think not that I am come to destroy the Law” — that requires no interpretation. I let the Word interpret its self.
Troothytits
YOUR problem you Murica destroying anti-semitic REAL Briton is that you have to proove that Jesus was so so freaking perfect …. that Jesus WAS the Torah! . That that is how good He really really was.
The Father killed Jesus.
no aden
Humans killed Christ, human beings hate God and hate His Law, humans want to fornicate, murder, lie, steal, worship stone and metal and wood — they want to do evil all day long and the LIGHT OF THE LAW shines on them and shows their sins.
In their perverted minds they imagine if we can just turn off the light of that Law we can continue in the dark doing what we love.
No aden each of us, if given the chance would murder Jesus Christ. If it is not understood just how evil man really is — then you have not repented.
OMG! God was MURDERERED!
THIS IS MASSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alert all SDA lawyering-priests with baseball bats and cars with large enough trunks and the King of Sham!
ALL the TROOTHYTITS and Abdullah MAYMOUD are ON the case!
Correct me if I’m wrong but as far as I understand it the Law still stands, yet the sacrifices are no longer necessary after the death of God’s Son.
Clucker
I dont think so. Christ though sinless became sin and so it was with the law. There is NO distinction in the law. To break one law is to break the whole law. Paul was very emphatic about that. For most Roman law became the relevant authority you had to submit to.
Clucker
You are correct the Law is eternal and will always exist.
The sacrificial law was added later because of transgressions.
The sacrificial Law was the schoolmaster that pointed to the sacrifice of Christ.
By His death, by that one sacrifice, animal sacrifices were no longer of use as what they pointed to came.
Clucker
For TroothyTits all he says only applies to da Germans (the Israelites) and not to da unpolluted other Germans (the Judahites). Judahites, obviously, do not have to folow the dead law required to be counted amongst troothytits ‘Israelites’.
Well, this is what I came up with while looking into the topic. It was posted by a friend in the past so I take no credit. It sounds legit to me though.
Matthew 5:17-20:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
“In Matthew 5:17, the Greek word used for ‘destroy’ was καταλύω (kataluō), which means “to tear down,” “demolish,” and/or “do away with”. It was a commonly used word around the 1st century A.D. when referring to the demolition/destruction of buildings/temples as well as the nullifying or replacing of laws and constitutions. In this verse, the Messiah explicitly says that destruction is not the mission of His incarnation in regards to the Law and the prophets. Such a strong statement from Jesus on the issue of the Law is proof that, to one extent or another, His teachings were being misinterpreted by His opponents. The Messiah, therefore, found it necessary to speak on behalf of this issue to make Himself clear. The subsequent debates in the early church as to the role of the Law (such as in Acts 15) clearly demonstrate further that the issues of how the Law was to be lived out among the disciples of Jesus had not been universally settled.”
Clucker
The law AND the prophets that Christ was going to fulfill means the prophets who prophecisedd Christ and the laws killing. This is what is meant by fulfill and what is explained in acts. The only people anywhere EVER who try and argue otherwise despite the entire Christian and post temple Judaisms practice in fact are those who are so freaking desperate to try and build up a fantasy wall of Judaizing dead crap necessary to be Christia. Trolls who know they are full of it in other words.
Clucker
You just have to see it in the perspective of your REAL LIFE.
Are you poor? Do you therefore rape women with justification?
No.
TroothyTits and Mayhem are PRETENDING to argue that the law is perfection but they are ONLY doing this to distract people from Christianity just as Pix would.
98% of people who are not poor do not rape women with justification.
The law is NOT perfection.
The law is a piece of piss.
Its an idol.
..,seeker…I thought i’d give you a “reference” from the scripture: 15 Peter:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisee, which were of Jerusalem, saying,(2),Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
(3), But He answered and said unto them, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? ”””’(8),”THIS PEOPLED DRAWETH NIGH UNTO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONOURETH ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. (9), BUT IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.” (Caps, as written, I’m not yelling.)
maxxy,
Please read this again — it is saying what I have been trying to get across to you.
washing of hands is a “tradition” — not a law, not a commandment, if you understood the Torah you would know this fact.
Then Christ states clearly the pharisees were transgressing the Commandments of God BY THEIR OWN MAN MADE TRADITIONS. the Pharisees were not keeping the Commandments because they placed their own man made traditions in place of keeping the Torah i.e. the Law they thus transgressed the HOLY Law of God.
Jesus Christ is telling the pharisees they should be keeping God’s law and not their own man made traditions. The pharisees considered not washing of hands before eating a sin – that action was never a sin but the pharisees in their lust to be more righteous concocted traditions that were suppose to place them far above the common folks.
Christ told the Pharisees not only are you not righteous but YOU ARE SINNERS, that offended them and they conspired to kill Christ and did finally kill Him.
Truthseeker and Mayhem
Pair of GayTheist pharisee fanboys
“For God said, ‘HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,’ and, ‘HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.’…
Who are you to your father pharisee fanboys?
Truther, do believe that Jesus is God?
Gordon,
Jesus Christ IS GOD, all things were created by HIM and for HIM.
He is the Rock of our salvation that followed the children of Israel for 40 years and wrote the commandments on two tables of stone with HIS finger. he is the ONE that spoke face to face with Moses.
When He told the Pharisees that before Moses “I AM” and they got angry because that is the name of God Moses was told to use. “I AM that I AM”.
Jesus Christ has always existed, He is not a created being as is Satan.
I’m trying to recall if you refute the trinity.
Gordon
When Paul wrote his letters his greetings include only the Father and the Son — no Spirit.
Those that are Antichrist deny the Father and the Son — no spirit.
No I have never found the pagan doctrine the catholic’s stole in 400 AD of a trinity to be any thing but a lie of Satan.
that ONE SPIRIT is the Spirit of and from the Father and that ONE Spirit resurrected Jesus Christ back to immortal life as Elohiym.
And I look forward to being resurrected by that same ONE spirit that I may spend eternity with the God Family as a Son.
I’ve lost access to a reply button so I am having to fish around for one.
So no spirit? You have not received the Holy spirit within your temple (which is your body)?
Gordon
When i was called into God’s Church, fighting and kicking all the way as I hated religion and still do, I repented of sinning against God, I was baptized by submersion in the watery grave and then by the laying on of Hands God gave me His Spirit.
Yes I have the Spirit of my Father working in me since November 1969.
No I do not speak in satanic gibberish, when I talk with my Father it is with my mind and my intellect. I never found Christ to speak in mindless gibberish nor any of the Apostles — neither will I.
Gordon
If you are trying to determine if I am a true follower of Christ or just another nut, all you have to do to see where I am coming from is read how Christ and the Apostles lived and what they observed and obeyed — that is exactly how I worship my Father and follow my master. I do every thing they did.
they lived according to the Commandments and the Torah
They did not eat unclean meats
They rested on the Sabbath
They kept the 7 Holy Feasts of God.
Well I think it is a valuable question when we see such staunch disagreement between brothers. I am impressed with your knowledge of scripture, but I still question whether there is the absence of a trust in any New Covenant interpretation. Specifically a Holy Spirit interpretation rather than a Truthseeker interpretation. The matter can be summed up in the following verse.
Roman 8 1-3 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
The law of the Spirit of life is the new Covenant standard
So you know, I too hate religion and I have spent many years away from organized practice and ritual. But I have had to also deal with the religion within me. Years of false devotion and many distorted agreements with men and false gods alike required that I clean house. But I also know that this is a common problem among all men. When we get in the way of God we create our own religion. Getting free of it all is the extent of what I teach. http://www.shadow-free.com/
I respect your zeal but I find traces of religion still lingering in what you have to say. I am not looking to argue the point anymore since I believe I have already provided valuable insights on the matter, but I can only encourage you to keep looking to Jesus Yeshua for every answer.
Gordon
“Trust in the New Covenant”?
Gordon a covenant is a contract, I have spent my life (52 years) in real estate, construction and land development and that means I have been a party to and drawn thousands of contracts some in the multiple millions.
I understand contracts and the vast vast majority of those attempting speak about the “New Covenant” have no understanding of contract Law.
American contract law was copied from the old covenant law of God.
What is called the OLD Covenant can be found in Leviticus 26: 1 – 39.
Verses 1, 2 and 3 is the “consideration” due from the children of Israel. Under this contract this is what Israel had agreed to do, this is their contractual obligation: Obey God.
Verses 4 – 13 are the promises of God, these are contractual obligations of God IF the Children obey. God has agreed to provide physical blessing IF the children obey.
Verses 14 – 39 are the contractual remedies God has to bring the children back into contract compliance when they stray from their contractual obligations. These remedies were agreed to by the children.
Gordon this is IT! This is the Old Covenant.
What you did not find was the sacrificial law.
What you did not find was a promise of righteousness for obedience
What you did not find was forgiveness of sin
What you did not find was the offer of eternal life
What you did not find was the offer of the Holy Spirit given to man.
The old contract is a physical contract for a physical people with physical law and physical promises.
Gordon the “only” change to the old contract was to the contractual obligations of God, to the promises of God. Nothing else was changed.
The promises of God have now become Spiritual:
We can now be forgiven of our sins by the blood of Jesus Christ
We can now be given the Father’s Spirit which begins the change of our nature (conversion) over to the Divine nature of the Father.
And IF we endure until “the” or our end — eternal life.
The “consideration” due from those called out of this world remains! We must obey the Lord our God.
The new contract is now a spiritual contract for a spiritual people with a spiritual law and spiritual promises.
Gordon I am not looking for answers I have been shown the TRUTH, thankfully I was never in any of the 4000 flavors of so called Christianity.
My concept of “religion” came from the movies and the mouths of others.
Gordon you like all the rest have this concept you have been freed from the Law of God, from “the law of sin and death” and you have – but – what you have been freed from is the penalty of death.
The sacrifice of Christ did not set you free from the law it set you free from the penalty of death you have earned by your sins. Christ died so you would not have to die for your own sins.
All of mankind is “under” the condemnation of the Law and that condemnation is the sentence of death. The Law is Holy Just and Good we are evil.
Maxxy if you consider what Christ taught during his 3 1/2 years on earth as
The TRUTH — which I do — then please take the time and study Matthew 23.
I have included the KJV and the NIV and also the NLT.
KJV
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, —– and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
NIV 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
NLT 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses
Christ is telling His disciples the teachers of the Law i.e. the Torah and the Pharisees are in the seat of legal authority just like Moses was when He judged the children of Israel for 40 years.
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,— that observe and do;— but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
NIV 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
NLT 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach.
Christ is telling His disciples to practice and obey the Torah.
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
NIV 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
If as crazy and you believe — what Christ did and taught before His death is different after His death — then why did He not tells us?? All He had to say in verse 3 was do all they bid until after my death — but He did not limit His statement.
Christ is teaching HIS disciples to obey the Torah — clearly explaining to them to follow what the priest, Pharisees and lawyers reveal as pertaining to the Law.
It does not get much clearer then this — Jesus Christ is teaching His disciples to obey the Law.
,,,seeker…I don’t think you understood… what I was trying to point out that, Jesus himself told us not to “teach for doctrine the commandments of men”. It goes right along with “lean not unto thine own understanding” .
…If I was to consider any other definition of traditions…then I would be dishonest…..
maxxy
I am not sure I understand..are you saying a tradition is something man created? the Jews today have books full as do the catholics, I follow no tradition and neither did Christ.
the Torah i.e. the Law, the 5 books of Moses are from the mouth of GOD: the LAW, the Statutes and the Judgments —they are not tradition.
Christ lived by the Torah perfectly so He could become our Passover our savior His life was our example to follow.
Christ came to show those the Father is calling out of this world THAT WAY, that perfect WAY of life. He did not do it so we would not have to — but as the example of perfect we are to follow.
In a human family the father is to set the standard the whole family is to live by, our Father sent His Son to reveal that Holy WAY.
Christ when choosing and calling His apostles said to them all “come and follow ME” and they did.