Open Discussion About Religious/Spiritual Topics

Moreover, the Most High makes it very plain in the final chapters of Isaiah, which deal with the last generation before the end of the age, that He holds their eating swine (amongst other things) against them.

How does this fit with your assertion?

Christ is Israel. Israel is death.

Cintus

Well I take it that you accept that the night trial was not legal I take it so that it was not the law that put Jesus to death?

Regardless it is commonly argued that crucifixion was illegal in Jewish law:

The act of putting to death by nailing or binding to a cross. Among the modes of Capital Punishment known to the Jewish penal law, crucifixion is not found; the “hanging” of criminals “on a tree,” mentioned in Deut. xxi. 22, was resorted to in New Testament times only after lapidation (Sanh. vi. 4; Sifre, ii. 221, ed. Friedmann, Vienna, 1864). A Jewish court could not have passed a sentence of death by crucifixion without violating the Jewish law. The Roman penal code recognized this cruel penalty from remote times (Aurelius Victor Cæsar, 41). It may have developed out of the primitive custom of “hanging” (“arbori suspendere”) on the “arbor infelix,” which was dedicated to the gods of the nether world. Seneca (“Epistola,” 101) still calls the cross “infelix lignum.” Trees were often used for crucifying convicts (Tertullian, “Apologia,” viii. 16). Originally only slaves were crucified; hence “death on the cross” and “supplicium servile” were used indiscriminately (Tacitus, “Historia,” iv. 3, 11). Later, provincial freedmen of obscure station (“humiles”) were added to the class liable to this sentence. Roman citizens were exempt under all circumstances (Cicero, “Verr.” i. 7; iii. 2, 24, 26; iv. 10 et seq.). The following crimes entailed this penalty: piracy, highway robbery, assassination, forgery, false testimony, mutiny, high treason, rebellion (see Pauly-Wissowa, “Real-Encyc.” s.v. “Crux”; Josephus, “B. J.” v. 11, § 1). Soldiers that deserted to the enemy and slaves who denounced their masters (“delatio domini”)were also punished by death on the cross.

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The way, the truth and the life?

Yes but I think that is probably related to something to do with eternal life.

And Pilate washed his hands of Jesus too so it wasn’t Roman law that executed Him either.

Cintus
Homo sacer (Latin for “the sacred man” or “the accursed man”) is a figure of Roman law: a person who is banned and may be killed by anybody, but may not be sacrificed in a religious ritual.[1]

The meaning of the term sacer in Ancient Roman religion is not fully congruent with the meaning it took after Christianization, and which was adopted into English as sacred. In early Roman religion sacer, much like the Hebrew קָדוֹש qadoš, denotes anything “set apart” from common society and encompasses both the sense of “hallowed” and that of “cursed”. This concept of the sacred is more in line with the Islamic notion of haram. The homo sacer could thus also simply mean a person expunged from society and deprived of all rights and all functions in civil religion. Homo sacer is defined in legal terms as someone who can be killed without the killer being regarded as a murderer; and a person who cannot be sacrificed.[2] The sacred human may thus be understood as someone OUTSIDE THE LAW, OR BEYOND IT. In the case of certain monarchs in western legal traditions, the sovereign and the Homo Sacer have conflated.[3]

The status of homo sacer could fall upon one as a consequence of oath-breaking. An oath in antiquity was essentially a conditional self-cursing, i.e. invoking one or several deities and asking for their punishment in the event of breaking the oath. An oathbreaker was consequently considered the property of the gods whom he had invoked and then deceived. If the oathbreaker was killed, this was understood as the revenge of the gods in whose power he had given himself. Since the oathbreaker was already the property of the oath deity, he could no longer belong to human society, or be consecrated to another deity.

“Homo sacer (Latin for “the sacred man” or “the accursed man”) is a figure of Roman law…”

Messiah wasn’t ‘homo sacer’ under Roman law. He was not found culpable to Roman law for anything.

As the presiding authority at the event, Pilate heard the Jewish authorities declare that a guilty sentence had been rendered. The Jews had put Messiah on trial and had brought Him to Pilate for the punishment phase.

“Explicitly MAY NOT be killed according to Mosaic Law.”

You are mingling Roman and Jewish law – (Jewish law is NOT Mosaic Law). This mingling is a natural thing to do for the seed-mingling world. Pilate was an authority of a seed-mingling Empire. Pilate presided over the mingled systems of Rome and Judea and rendered verdict and sentencing along those lines.

I don’t find anything illegal in his conduct – according to the laws of man.

This is not to say that Pilate won’t be found culpable under God’s Law.

You remember what Mick said: Pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate.

cintus

Messiah wasn’t ‘homo sacer’ under Roman law. He was not found culpable to Roman law for anything.

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WHAT law was he found guilty under?

None. He was condemned in an illegal trial.

cintus

Christ is Israel. Israel is death.
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If you would enter into life obey the commandments

If you would be perfect .. come follow me.

1. God was the ultimate authority. This was His will.

2. He was NOT found guilty under tha law of the Jews. Even if you distinguish somehow from Mosaic law the trial was still an illegal travesty. It was no traditions law. No ‘tradition’ executed Jesus.

To submit to the will of the Father is to go to Him. Hence those who have made themselves eunachs for the glory of heaven etc. These are apocalypticists.

…meidan/accursed one…The life and death of Jesus Christ, was prophesied and could not have been prevented by any human being that has ever lived, but Christ Himself…
…He could have stopped his execution, had he wanted…At the cost of your ‘soul’. Your irreverence is Satanic,
…The individuals who campaigned for Christ’s crucifixion, were none other than the seed of the serpent…Kenites…the tares…the synagogue of Satan, and unwittingly, they served the Most High…and assigned their own peculiar condemnation.

…Meidan…I don’t care what you meant to say, or if you say what you mean….Nothing that comes out of your mortally wounded mind is in ANY way, edifying, or even thought provoking…Total balderdash, at best, and at it’s worst, it is blasphemous and self-servingly evil…(extremely immature and childish, also..)….What a dick!

maxxy

gaytheists lives matter maxxy!

Damien wrote:

“God was the ultimate authority. This was His will.”

It is true that nothing happens in this world which is contrary to God’s will. But this truth is inadequately perceived by almost everyone who ponders it.

“He was NOT found guilty under tha law of the Jews.”

The Jewish authorities put Him on trial and a guilty verdict was rendered. What did they say after they rent their robes? They said:

‘What further testimony do we need? We have heard it ourselves from his own lips.’

“Even if you distinguish somehow from Mosaic law the trial was still an illegal travesty.”

Damien, most trials of men are a gross miscarriage of justice. But there is a justice of man (corrupt) and a Justice of God (incorruptible).

“To submit to the will of the Father is to go to Him. Hence those who have made themselves eunachs for the glory of heaven etc. These are apocalypticists.”

Cintus

In other words buggery, eating shellfish, worshipping Buddah as the 8 true Gods, snorting bath salts all day Saturday are Jewish law?

Because someone probably did it once?

This is the definition of how one distinguishes Jewish law from Mosaic law?

SO. IT. IS. STILL. NOT. ANY. LAW. GOD. EVER. EVER. GAVE. TO. ANYONE.

Anymore then was

1. “Poisoned Apples! For the eating!”

“In other words buggery, eating shellfish, worshipping Buddah as the 8 true Gods, snorting bath salts all day Saturday are Jewish law?”

There she goes. Off on a Damien tangent. What is Jewish law? What did Messiah rail against time after time in the Gospels? What did He accuse as a worthless thing because men had swapped the incorruptible for the corruptible? What did Messiah teach was a stumbling block to men because they mistook it for something priceless and precious? The traditions of men. Jewish law is based on the traditions of the Jewish ‘sages’ and ‘wise men’ and ‘great men’ (rav = great; a common association with and prefix to the names of rabbis).

“Because someone probably did it once?”

Pssssst… We’re over here now.

“SO. IT. IS. STILL. NOT. ANY. LAW. GOD. EVER. EVER. GAVE. TO. ANYONE.”

Precisely. Jewish law is not God’s Law. UK law is not God’s Law. American law is not God’s Law.

“If Jewish law was indifferent to Mosaic law then WHY NOT have the trial in the usual way? WHY avoid that?”

Because the Jews were unrighteous, unrepentant sinners.

“Because that is what SIN does.”

Yes, Damien. Sin is to blame for all of this. From the fall in the Garden right up to the Restoration of All Things – sin has had and will have dominion over men.

And the Apostle Paul most certainly agrees.

cintus

WHAT is really disturbing you?

COMPLETE abandonment?

Are you are furtively hoping that it was ONLY the Jews that abandoned Jesus and NOT the Romans (not the Pontifex Maximus’ Centurian anyway)?

“So your understanding of Jewish Law is that it is not the Law.”

Damien, I can’t be much clearer about that.

“So it is not the Law.”

No. It is not. Just like the Jewish calendar is not God’s calendar. Jewish feasts are not God’s feasts (Purim and Hanukkah). Just like the Jewish time for beginning the day is the opposite of what God’s Word and His Creation teach us.

“So you think of it as just a glorified MOB.”

Wherein everything the rabbis teach deviates from what God teaches, then their teachings are nothing more worthy than the teachings of any other men. Jews are special in no regard when they deviate from God’s Word. They are in fact a rejected people. All of Israel is a rejected people.

“So you think that Jesus was executed by just a rabble of various mobs.”

Yes. Various. As in mingled. He was executed at the hands of a mingling of authority and at the hands of dereliction of responsibility.

“Unless of course it is REALLY REALLY important to you to be able to say to a Jew that it was their Law that killed Jesus rather than admit to a Jew that it was just a lawless sinful mob that killed Jesus?”

The mob was lawless in that it did not adhere to the Law of God. The Roman and Jewish authorities were lawless in that they did not adhere to the Law of God. But their proceedings were in fact obedient to Jewish and Roman law and custom. Jewish authorities and Roman authorities, together, conducted a trial, rendered a judgment, imposed a sentence and dealt an execution. That is not altogether lawlessness, Damien. The rules of man were followed. Obedience to the authorities of this world was rendered.

“WHAT is really disturbing you? COMPLETE abandonment?”

Abandonment? Who has abandoned what, according to you?

“Are you are furtively hoping that it was ONLY the Jews that abandoned Jesus and NOT the Romans (not the Pontifex Maximus’ Centurian anyway)?”

Have I not, more than once, laid blame at the feet of Roman authority in my commentary above? Have I not been clear that Pilate bears responsibility for Messiah’s death? But more importantly Damien, WE bear responsibility for Messiah’s death. We all do. Asking who bears a greater burden in this regard is an exercise in complete and utter pointlessness. Culpability is universal in this world.

“About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?””

And have you pondered this? Have you pondered WHY Messiah said that? Have you considered that Messiah was not mistaken, and that The Father actually HAD forsaken Him? Have you meditated on the reasons for why that might have been? It’s a big door you’ve just flung open.

cintus

Have I not, more than once, laid blame at the feet of Roman authority in my commentary above? Have I not been clear that Pilate bears responsibility for Messiah’s death?

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That is the point. You KEEP laying the blame – now on the Jews and now on the Romans – when the account goes to EXTRAORDINARY lengths to make your doing so look dumb. Why is it doing this?

cintus: “Alright! Which one of you kicked God?”

Cintus: ROME’S JEWS LIVES MATTER!!!!

THIS IS WAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!!! EVERYBODY OUT!

Cintus: “EVERYBODY OUT!”

Maybe it was better when it WAS just ‘evil’ goats getting it in the neck on a rolling basis?