Is it true the 10 Commandments were never included in the New Covenant? What IS the difference between the Old and the New Covenant?
Is it true the 10 Commandments were never included in the New Covenant? What IS the difference between the Old and the New Covenant?
Paul states correctly – the ONLY difference between the Old and the New Covenant — are the PROMISES.
The new covenant is exactly the same as the old — with one difference — the new has better promises! Which means the Torah i,e, THE LAW, the “consideration” i.e. Israel’s duties, remains a vital necessary part of the new contract.
Hebrews 8: 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, —- which was established upon “better promises”.
Christ came to “fill to the full” that HOLY RIGHTEOUS LAW, it was only physical and Christ increased – magnified, the Law to Spiritual — now if a person lusts after a women in their MIND they have transgressed God’s Holy LAW.
Isaiah 42: 21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake;— he will — magnify — the law, and make [it] honourable (#142 wide, great, glorious, majestic).
Matthew 5: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her — hath committed adultery — with her already in his heart.
Based upon verse 28, spoken by Christ’s in His ‘Sermon on the mound’, one must acknowledge adultery remains Commandment number 7.
Why would Jesus teach His disciples adultery is sin even if it only occurs in their minds and then abolish all 10 Commandments by His death??
Was adultery only a sin while Christ walked on earth??
Abraham kept God’s Law BUT what made him righteous in God’s eyes was Abraham trusted God and obeyed, the Law did not make Abraham righteous.
Genesis 26: 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Galatians 3: 6 Even as Abraham believed (entrust) God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Abraham “believed” God and acted upon that belief:
Abraham lived his life based upon the belief God can be trusted and based upon that belief/trust Abraham obeyed the voice of God. Abraham did all God commanded him to do and thus God accounted Abraham as righteous.
How is it none of those claiming to follow Jesus Christ can grasps the clear fact; keeping the law can never — and has never — “justify’ or “redeem’ or made even one single person righteous?
Then add to that fact there never was a time when any man that has ever lived, lived a sinless life —- except Jesus Christ – or — Do you suppose keeping the Law – after – you have sinned to the max – can wipe out all of those previous sins? The responsibility of removing our sin rest completely with our Savior Jesus Christ.
What all of mankind needs is deliverance from the penalty of death — which every single person that has ever lived or will ever live is – UNDER — for ALL have transgressed God’s Holy Law i.e, the Torah.
Here is huge a stumbling block, many are under the false impression the 10 Commandments were added because of transgressions. Not so!
Due to the FACT we all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God the sacrificial law is what was “ADDED”, – that sacrificial law is our schoolmaster teaching us we must be redeemed from the penalty of death by the shedding of Blood.
Jeremiah 7: 22 For I spake “not” unto your fathers,— nor commanded them — in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, —- concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Galatians 3; 19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
How did the children of Israel seek “justification” after they had sinned? The Book of Leviticus, one of the 5 books of the Torah, instructed them to offer sacrifices for their sins. All of the types of sacrifices pointed to the coming ONE sacrifice of Jesus Christ — only Jesus Christ’s Blood can justify/redeem us from the penalty of death.
The Blood of bulls and goats can never justify even one person! Hebrew 10: 4. But the blood of bulls and goats taught us and led us to the need for the Blood of Christ.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Verse 25 states once Christ became our Passover our Trust in HIS Blood removed the need of the schoolmaster of the sacrificial Law.
What was added was the sacrificial law, why? The children of Israel could never obey the Torah. If there were no Torah Law then please explain how it would be possible for transgressions of the Law i.e. the Torah — if the Torah did not exist first?
Which come’s first –the transgressions of Torah law or the Torah?
Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, Jesus Christ is the whole point of the sacrificial Law, — HE is what the sacrifice of the Passover lamb points to. Christ IS NOT “our” easter – Jesus Christ IS “OUR” PASSOVER.
1 Corinthians 5: 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ — our Passover — is sacrificed for us:
Jesus Christ paid our death penalty by pouring out HIS blood thus paying for each of us the debt of death all have earned for our sins. Every person that has or will ever live is UNDER the judgment of death, under the sentence of death — because we — all — have transgressed that HOLY RIGHTEOUS PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY.
It is God’s “Law of Liberty” — living by God’s Holy Law is freedom from slavery to sin. Those living by God’s Holy Law are not in bondage to sin.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
The point Paul is making in verse 21—– if you still believe that sacrificing a lamb or goat can “justify or redeem’ you – then – Jesus Christ did die in vain for YOU.
Jesus Christ IS our PASSOVER! — The death angel is passing over us because we obey our Master’s command — we drink His Blood – His Blood , now “in” us, is cleansing us from sin — from the inside out. All sin comes from within.
John 4: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Without the Blood of Jesus Christ in a person, without becoming “converted” — none can enter the Kingdom of GOD.
From Genesis to Revelation —The 10 Commandments are HOLY, JUST, and GOOD — there is nothing to the contrary that can be found.
The Holy Law of God is the foundation of both the Old and the NEW Covenants.
It speaks great volumes on the nature of man that upon His return, Jesus Christ must rule with a Rod of Iron and HE will rule the entire earth by the Torah.
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notruth is spreading the manure full force–you know the fool who went up the hill,took a major dose of acid(lsd),wrote the ten commandments,as inspired by satan, came down and murdered his people,as inspired by satan, cause they were partying around a golden calf–the fool had the rules right in his hands–”do not kill”, but being a self righteous,hateful,vengeful,evil bible thumper he didn’t care because satan owned him–he was just like the jerks who killed jesus-like almost all bible thumpers,a bible in one hand,and the hateful,judgemental sword of death in the other
raisnbrain
you are so funny but yet it is so sad, you must think your words have meaning and power, yet your words once spoken or written just vanish in to the wind — they can change not one thing.
Soon enough our Father and His Son will explain things to you in a way that will drop you to the ground in fear.
God’s into FEEEEEER POOOOOOORN???
such nonsense spoken by fools since the beginning of time–pretending to be light when it is nothing but gloom and darkness–god would not touch it with a 5000 ft pole–the bible is the book of wrath and judgement–god has zero wrath and no judgement–satan’s little helpers wrote the bible–the word of men-not god–salvation is given to all–just like jesus said–the bible thumpers of his day did not like him saying that for it took away their power($) so they killed him–the bible thumpers of today would do the same being the hateful judgemental jackasses they are–god does not read the bible–never has–never will–the bible was written by insane homeless fools in a cave inspired by satan–satan’s best work,the bible–remember fools,god loves all his stupid idiotic children,even evil hateful bible thumpers,the worst of the worst,and god would do nothing to hurt his foolish children–only dumbass humans would do that,led by satan,bible in one hand and a death sword in the other,giving judgement,hate to all who disagree
raisnbrains
You can write your thoughts until the cows come home — to me they are nothing more then the foolish ramblings of an unstable fool.
I do not unwisely use the term “fool”.
destined2B
here is another opportunity for you to send me running away in fear.
All you must do is refute the scripture and logic used in this paper — I have given you many opportunities yet you seem reluctant to rise to the task. WHY? You claim to be a strong man of god?
The one time you did attempt was extremely weak, not even sure any could figure out your point?
Has it occurred to you as yet — THE Holy Law of God is eternal and reveals to us the Divine Nature of the Father?
I trust my Father as HE has revealed Himself by HIS LAW i.e. His Divine Nature which can never change.
pls take off the caps lock and boldface button…you are shouting…this diminishes your article’s credibility rather than enhancing it…and it is RUDE
The N.T. says Christians are not under the Law. Period.
* Acts 15:10-11 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ[a] we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
* Rom. 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
* Gal. 2:14-16 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you[a] compel Gentiles to live as Jews?[b] 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
* Gal. 3:21-25 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
* Phil. 3:2-7 2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the [a]false circumcision; 3 for we are the true [b]circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ (nasb)
* Galatians 5:3 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
* Gal. 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Conclusion: NO, Christians are not under the Law. Going under the Law or any part of the Law means you have fallen from grace
That much said, All will stand at the Judgment Seat before Christ (2 Corinthians 5:9-11). How will you be judged? By what standard? The question then becomes, What Fruits come off this tree? Does this tree produce peaches or thistles? (by metaphor, if you don’t mind)…A peach tree cannot produce thistles…it is genetically impossible. A Christian cannot produce a lifetime of shameless, unrepentant sin. Period. Okay, what sins are we talking about here? There are quite a few lists of disqualifying sins in the N.T. actually.
The Bible teaches that a born again person cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
“Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.” (1 John 3:8-10, ESV)
“But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Tim. 3:1-7).
If you die while continuing to practice these sins, you will not be allowed into heaven. These sins so abominable that they will take you straight to Hell. See Gal. 5:19-21 and Rom. 1:28-32 for similar lists. Friends, it is urgent that you speedily repent and get cleansed if you are doing any of these things. You are not welcome in heaven if you are doing any of these things:
• “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” (Matt. 7:23) (Note: The KJV word here is “iniquity”.)
• “But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.” (Matt. 10:33)
• “And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.” (Matt. 10:38-39)
• “But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.” (Mark 11:26)
• “For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God” (Eph. 5:5)
• “But the rest of mankind, …did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons and idols…And they did not repent of their murders, …sorceries, …sexual immorality, or their thefts.” (Rev. 9:20-21)
• “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev. 21:8)
• “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (1 Tim. 5:8).
• “Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” (1 John 3:7-10)
Christians must produce the Fruits of the Spirit abundantly. Sorry, reformed O-S-A-S people, but the bible really does teach Lordship salvation.
“You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matt. 7:16-21)
What are the Fruits of the Spirit?
* Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
This list is not complete. See link for 58 bible verses about the fruits of righteousness. God expects his little “peach trees” to produce bumper crops. If they don’t there is a problem that must be fixed by salvation and/or sanctification.
See: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Fruits-Of-Righteousness
Jknbt
Is Jesus Christ the Son of GOD?
Did He come to earth to the light the WAY for those that would follow HIM?
Did He live a sinless life and thus became our Passover?
Did He teach Truth?
Then jknbt why do you not DO what Jesus Christ TAUGHT HIS DISCIPLES TO DO?
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, —and to his disciples, –
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 “”All”"” therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,—- “”"that observe and do”"”;—– but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I teach the commandments —– you cast them aside as yesterdays garbage.
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Why does the Son of God our Passover and High priest teach His disciples to obey the Holy Law?
Why did He tell the rich man if he wanted to gain eternal life to keep the Commandment?
You have no understanding of the Torah nor the Old Testament which Jesus Christ taught His disciples from, thus you do not have a clue what Christ taught— you as all the others run to Paul who is very hard to understand and they that have no knowledge of the Torah twist to their own destruction.
I do not consider caps as shouting — I do not want any to miss the key points or words– it does not work for every one as you amply demonstrate.
figure out the difference between roots & fruits…that is where you are missing it…keeping the commandments is a fruits matter, a matter of results…doing the commandments is a result of a close walk with God…keeping commandments does not earn salvation, it shows off a salvation already given by grace…a big difference…
another problem is that you forget that Jesus was a rabbi or teacher of the Law & a prophet of Jehovah before the cross…when he taught Law salvation, it was because the old Law was in effect & was the order of the day…the Law was nailed to the cross when he died…in the resurrection, Jesus is no longer a rabbi teacher of the Law, but rather the mediator of the new covenant…his role changed with the death, burial, & resurrection…
You say I have no knowledge of the Torah…my answer is that you don’t have a clue what Paul was talking about in Romans & Galatians about how the Law is not profitable for salvation…all it does is to prove need for something better, which is of course salvation by grace through faith, the new covenant…
you can’t have it both ways…either you are saved by grace through faith, or you are seeking salvation according to the Law…
jknbt now we are getting somewhere::
“”"another problem is that you forget that Jesus was a rabbi or teacher of the Law & a prophet of Jehovah before the cross…when he taught Law salvation, it was because the old Law was in effect & was the order of the day…the Law was nailed to the cross when he died…in the resurrection, Jesus is no longer a rabbi teacher of the Law, but rather the mediator of the new covenant…his role changed with the death, burial, & resurrection”"
With this statement — you made — you are accusing Jesus Christ of teaching lies for 3 1/2 years.
Thus all that Christ taught must be cast aside as well???
SO Jesus Christ wasted 3 1/2 years teaching for doctrine a failed WAY??
We are not to follow Jesus Christ? but some other way??
Jknbt quit while you can — so called christianity has your mind so twisted it will take the resurrected saints of God to fix what they have done to you.
jknbt
Bring us a statement by our Savior and High Priest showing the Law i.e. the Torah was nailed to His stake and thus abolished or any clear scripture showing the Law needed to be and would be cast aside.
Show us a prophecy from the Old Testament stating the Law was only temporary and the Christ would remove it.
jknbt are you saying in effect the 10 Commandments were added because of transgressions?
If that were so what was being transgressed?
Nailed to the Cross: Colossians 2:11-15
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
The Law is still in effect for those who seek to be justified by it. I never said it was temporary. Rom. 11:29. I did say that it does not work to make someone right with God, and never has. Rom 8:2-4
Law added because of sins to convict sinners of sins & to call them to a salvation that works: Gal. 3:6-14, 19 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Conclusions evident:
1) Jesus’s death, burial, & resurrection nailed the Law to the cross. This erased the Law ruling over Christians, while it still is the ruling economy for Jews, Legalists, and all who would be saved by it.
2) All who seek to be justified, that is, to have right standing before God, by the Law are under a curse. Nobody can keep 100% of the Law, 100% of the time. The slightest infraction sends a soul to hell. Going under the Law for salvation is a guarantee of burning in hell, which is a curse. Christians have right standing before God by faith, not by works of the flesh in the Law. Can’t you see the difference?
Jknbt
How Do you suppose keeping the Law – after – having sinned to the max – can wipe out all of those previous sins?
the only Law that simply showed the need for justification was the Sacrificial law.
Before I was called by my Father I sinned big time — explain how those sin can be wiped away by keeping the law — later — after all those sins are listed in the book and I am condemned to death for those sin?
Do you honestly think a sinner can be justified by keeping the Law??
that makes no logical or legal sense at all.
Again you have no clue what you are talking about — Go study the Words of Christ first because Paul has you totally confused.
forgot to provide a summary/conclusion…oops…
The bottom line is that the matter turns on the difference between roots and fruits…The basic economy of salvation (roots) did change between the O.T. covenant of the law and the N.T. covenant of grace, the New Covenant. The O.T. Law basically said:
1) Be circumcised
2) Live morally according to the high standard of the Law
3) and Do good works
To be accepted by God. Nobody ever lived up to this standard perfectly. That is why sacrifices had to be offered continually. Nobody was therefore saved by Law. All it did was to point out how flawed people are, and how much we needed a better deal.
The New Covenant preaches salvation by grace through faith. This is the root deal of Christianity. Salvation, the approval of God, depends on the faith of accepting the gospel of the death, burial, resurrection, and propitiating blood atonement of Christ. So how do you know who has this or not? The only way to tell is to look at the fruits (results) of faith. They are there, or they are not.
Do you mean fruits, jknbt, like how you so often claim to have no time to answer for the hope in you?
Matt. 7:6 back at you…
Come now, jknbt, how many times must you dance around the point? Nowhere in the covenant can any of your accusations be found. Not salvation, not circumcision, nor good works.
It’s the same tactic the post-modernists use in the political arena – “You don’t agree with me therefore you must believe…..” – aka a strawman argument.
mayhem
can you see how this prophecy is about to take place?
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
This fellow can not even understand he is accusing Jesus Christ of teaching worthless dribble.
Can’t talk now, Truthseeker, i’m busy scouring scripture to find a Taqiya clause.
jknbt here is the old Covenant in its entirety — show us where it states:
1) Be circumcised
2) Live morally according to the high standard of the Law
3) and Do good works
Where ever you got those 3 points go and get your money back as they are BS.
Leviticus 26
1Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
16I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass: 20And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
21And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
23And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; 24Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
27And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies’ land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. 35As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it. 36And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth. 37And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. 38And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up. 39And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
look, I’m busy working on something else, and you have spewed bible pearls back at me again…you don’t realize it, but you are under a curse, since you seek good standing before God by the Law. How can you know so many scriptures and still miss what I have said here today? This is THE MAIN THEME of what Paul wrote in the N.T. Sorry for busting your teeth on these diamond hard pearls again…You just don’t get it…
You asked in last week’s battle what you needed to repent of. Well, this is it. To reject salvation by grace and to instead seek salvation by law is an enormous deadly sin.
the only thing I am getting out of this is a forum to help organize my thoughts….I am planning on teaching a class on just this subject. So the chance to think through this again has helped a bit. I don’t have the time to debate. Figure it out for yourself.
the totally blind teaching the totally blind.
Do you not realize you are calling the 3 1/2 year work Jesus Christ did — worthless?
jknbt
I would like to be there when you stand before Jesus Christ and tell Him He wasted 3 1/2 years teaching a WAY that could not save a single person. a Way that, according to you, would end at the stake.
may the Lord judge between thee and me, between thy word and my word…
busy, no more pearls for you today…go see the oral surgeon about all your teeth you cracked trying to eat my pearls today…Matt 7:6
“May”, um, who do you think you’re granting permission to?
Let the record show as soon as it’s revealed your doctrine has Jesus teaching the very thing He was supposed to have come to do away with, jknbt, you instantly run out of time for pearl casting.
excellent Mayhem,
jknbt wants to give permission for the Lord to judge between us — using what law one may ask?
If there is no law how is it possible to judge right from wrong. that is a logical question jknbt.
the sad thing is — most of these folks that hope the law has been abolished are allergic to logic, it makes them go blind-er.
Perfect law, righteous Law is logical.
jknbt
May I ask one simple question and get your answer? Just one question.
I have been accused by most of those wanting the law to be abolished of seeking salvation by works.
According to what you believe how is it possible for me to earn the free gift of eternal life by obeying the Law?
How would that be possible?
jknbt
I have a new paper coming out in a few days, since you are a follower of Paul I would love to know your thoughts on it.
No need to comment on each and every point, please pick out the most egregious and show us the errors in detail.
No need to tell me to repent of obeying the Holy Perfect Law of God — many many before you have already done so.
okey-doke, I will try to put the replies to several of your less nasty snipes and bites by you in one box:
1) ” Is Jesus Christ the Son of GOD? Did He come to earth to the light the WAY for those that would follow HIM?
Did He live a sinless life and thus became our Passover? Did He teach Truth? ” YES TO ALL
2) ” I teach the commandments —– you cast them aside as yesterdays garbage.” WRONG, YOU ARE TEACHING LEGALISTIC SALVATION, COMPLETE VAIN & VOID AS I HAVE SHOWN ABOVE. WRONG, THE LAW IS STILL IN EFFECT AS GOD’S UNCHANGING WORD
The main problem here seems to be that you don’t understand that there is a complete change of regime in Christ’s death, burial, resurrection, & pentecost….the old covenant of the law and the age of the law passed as God’s economy of reconciling sinners to him…These were replaced by the new covenant in Christ’s blood atonement and the age of grace…The deal completely changed. You can’t seem to grasp that. Truth is truth and does not change, including the truth of the Law. What has changed is how God deals with people to reconcile sinners to himself. The was needed because the Law never saved anybody. The best it could do is get you a nice place to stay in the paradisical bosom of Abraham down below. Nobody past present or future will go up to heaven and get to stay because they keep the law. Salvation is by grace through faith always, never the Law.
Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Jesus has not come to abolish the Mosaic law (or the Prophets), but to fulfill it. He does not disagree with “it is written” in vv. 21–48, but with “you have heard” (vv. 21, 27, 33, 38, 43; see also v. 31). Jesus critiques mistaken interpretations of Scripture, not the written words themselves.
Therefore, it is necessary to appreciate the abiding truthfulness of the law of Moses because Jesus is the fulfillment of this law (5:17; see Rom. 10:4). Jesus does not nullify it, but comes so that everything in it will be accomplished (Matt. 5:18). He does this through His entire representative obedience. Thus, though the teaching of Jesus is challenging to the core, Jesus did not come to encumber us with impossibly heavy burdens (11:28–30; see 23:4). Only Jesus, the last Adam and perfect Son of God, is able to fulfill God’s law perfectly (3:15) and therefore is able to pour out His blood for the forgiveness of sins (26:28; see 1:21; 20:28).
This does not mean Christians should have no concern to follow God’s law. Christ frees us to obey it. Jesus’ disciples are called to a genuine love of God and neighbor (22:37–40; see 7:21). This is a lofty calling, but Jesus Himself embodied it throughout His life. Through His obedience, Jesus releases us from the burden of trying to earn our salvation. We are to be merciful because of the mercy Jesus has shown to us (5:7; 9:13; 12:7; 23:23; see Hos. 6:6; Matt. 18:33). In sum, the law of God is an abiding witness to the person and work of Christ, and through Him we are able to call this law our delight. (Busy, credit where credit is due, borrowed from https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/not-one-jot-or-tittle/…once again, surprised you have not seen this teaching before, commonly taught, or if you have seen it, that you refuse to accept it)…
I carefully indicated how important staying moral and keeping the commandments of Christ is…how did you miss that? The main difference here is motivation. Under the Law, fear of hellfire was enough to keep people moral (well, it was supposed to anyway)…Under Grace the motivation is now Love for the Lord: John 14:15…a different motivation with different results.
Another problem here is that you lump together the Law of Moses with the Commandments of Christ. Once again, different covenants, different economies (dispensations), different motivations, and different results. Once again, busy, will send you to a link that seems comprehensive enough (there are over 1000 commandments in the N.T.): https://www.trusting-in-jesus.com/Commandments-of-Jesus.html
3) ” Why does the Son of God our Passover and High priest teach His disciples to obey the Holy Law? Why did He tell the rich man if he wanted to gain eternal life to keep the Commandment? You have no understanding of the Torah nor the Old Testament which Jesus Christ taught His disciples from, thus you do not have a clue what Christ taught— you as all the others run to Paul who is very hard to understand and they that have no knowledge of the Torah twist to their own destruction. ” “I teach the commandments —– you cast them aside as yesterdays garbage.” “Why does the Son of God our Passover and High priest teach His disciples to obey the Holy Law? ” ” Why did He tell the rich man if he wanted to gain eternal life to keep the Commandment?
Once again, the Lord’s work on earth was as a man filled with a spirit (fully God, fully man, but with his divine attributes set aside temporarily) who was prophet of Jehovah, and who was a rabbi teacher of the Law. All he could do was teach the law and it’s impossibly high standard of holiness, all still valid today. Nope, I think I understand the Torah Law fairly well for someone brought up a protestant. I had to learn this on my own.
For an example of how much changed after death/burial/resurrection/pentecost, examine the scripture that says that Jesus instructed the man healed of leprosy to show himself to the priest (Lk. 17:14; Matt 8:1-4). How did this involve a priest?, a gentile convert might ask…Jesus, teacher of the Law, told the healed man to do the Law commanded in Lev.14:3-7). There are millions of gentile church people out there who have been healed by the Lord’s gentle touch with confirmed medically verifiable proof in the last 100 years. Have you noticed that the risen Jesus does not tell any of these people healed these days to show themselves to an orthodox rabbi down at the synogogue? Did God’s Law change? NOOO!!! what changed is the economy or dispensation. This showing act is not required in the age of grace, the church age. This is not a contradiction. Why did He tell the rich man if he wanted to gain eternal life to keep the Commandment? Because that was the economy-dispensation under the Law. This is not the economy-dispensation in the age of grace, the church age. The deal has changed. I wish you could get a grip on this fact.
4) ” you are accusing Jesus Christ of teaching lies for 3 1/2 years. Thus all that Christ taught must be cast aside as well??? SO Jesus Christ wasted 3 1/2 years teaching for doctrine a failed WAY?? ”
Nope, not at all. Lighten up, & try to get the big picture here. The deal changed. Other examples of when the deal changed: the way of salvation in Eden before the fall was different; the season when God trusted people to serve him by good conscientious effort failed, since the day came that everyone did what he saw fit in his heart; The deal will be different in the coming millennial kingdom, when King Jesus will hold the whole world to a stricter standard than even you are proposing….
You do well to teach the high moral standard of the Law. You are doing your followers a complete disservice if you make them take on the Law. That means you will be held accountable for all the burdensome ritual laws and food laws. When is the last time you brought a pascal lamb to be sacrificed? When is the last time you ate non-kosher food like bacon wrapped shrimp? The Law doesn’t save. It just proves need for the better deal of salvation by grace through faith. Why can’t you grasp this?
5) ” Bring us a statement by our Savior and High Priest showing the Law i.e. the Torah was nailed to His stake and thus abolished or any clear scripture showing the Law needed to be and would be cast aside. ”
It says so plainly in Col. 2:11-15. See above.
6) ” Show us a prophecy from the Old Testament stating the Law was only temporary and the Christ would remove it.
jknbt are you saying in effect the 10 Commandments were added because of transgressions? ”
The Law is still in effect for those who seek to be justified by it. I never said it was temporary. Rom. 11:29. I did say that it does not work to make someone right with God, and never has. Rom 8:2-4 Law added because of sins to convict sinners of sins & to call them to a salvation that works: Gal. 3:6-14, 19 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. All who seek to be justified, that is, to have right standing before God, by the Law are under a curse. Nobody can keep 100% of the Law, 100% of the time. The slightest infraction sends a soul to hell. Going under the Law for salvation is a guarantee of burning in hell, which is a curse. Christians have right standing before God by faith, not by works of the flesh in the Law. Can’t you see the difference?
7) ” How Do you suppose keeping the Law – after – having sinned to the max – can wipe out all of those previous sins?
the only Law that simply showed the need for justification was the Sacrificial law. Before I was called by my Father I sinned big time — explain how those sin can be wiped away by keeping the law — later — after all those sins are listed in the book and I am condemned to death for those sin? ”
You must not be reading what I am saying. The Law can cover sins and postpone judgement. It does not take sins away. Only the blood atonement can do that. Take time to read my comments before you blast away refuting them, okay?
8) ” Do you honestly think a sinner can be justified by keeping the Law?? that makes no logical or legal sense at all.
Again you have no clue what you are talking about — Go study the Words of Christ first because Paul has you totally confused. ”
Once again, You must not be reading what I am saying. The Law can cover sins and postpone judgement. It does not take sins away. Only the blood atonement can do that. Take time to read my comments before you blast away refuting them, okay? A sinner cannot be justified by keeping the Law.
And let me turn your statement around back at you, “Again you have no clue what you are talking about — Go study the Words of Christ first because Paul has you totally confused. ”
You don’t know about covenants or about dispensations. Understanding dispensations (economies) is the key to understanding the scriptures. Without these understandings, the scriptures will seem very contradictory and hard to understand. That is what is wrong with your theology. Since you find apparent contradiction between Jesus’ teachings as a rabbi of the Law in the Gospels and Paul’s teachings as an apostle of the gospel of grace through faith, you stumble. You have discounted Paul’s teachings while elevating Christ’s teachings to advocate legalism for Christians. NO, NO, NO, that is not what the N.T. is all about. You are the one who is confused.
9) ” Do you not realize you are calling the 3 1/2 year work Jesus Christ did — worthless? This fellow can not even understand he is accusing Jesus Christ of teaching worthless dribble. ”
NOPE, not at all, his words are faithful and true. There are a lot of so-called christians who are going to be left behind in the Rapture and who will never get into heaven because they reject the high moral standard of the Law and Jesus’ emphasis of it in Matt. 5. There will be a lot of people who will be surprised on Rapture day. The churches will be filled the Sunday after the Rapture.
The bottom line is that God offers the resource of the riches of his impossible grace to overcome the high standards of the Law and Commandments….Jesus in this death, burial, resurrection, & blood atonement fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Law. This is called Grace. Have you heard of it? Apparently not, given all your objections.
oops, caught an error proofreading a little…pls allow me to correct a sentence in item 3 which reads
“Once again, the Lord’s work on earth was as a man filled with a spirit (fully God, fully man, but with his divine attributes set aside temporarily) who was prophet of Jehovah, and who was a rabbi teacher of the Law.”
to read instead,
“Once again, the Lord’s work on earth was as a man filled with the Holy Spirit (fully God, fully man, but with his divine attributes set aside temporarily) who was prophet of Jehovah, and who was a rabbi teacher of the Law.”
jknbt I can make the same comment as you.
“You must not be reading what I am saying. The Law can cover sins and postpone judgement. It does not take sins away. Only the blood atonement can do that. Take time to read my comments before you blast away refuting them, okay?’”‘
If I responded to every point you make — you would never read it —But on this one above,
Please show me the scripture that states keeping the Law can cover sins and postpone judgement, I have studied the Word for 50 years and never ran across it. Although I am not sure what you mean by “cover”.
Repentance from sin is a requirement and sin is the transgression of the Law. and Love cover a multitude of sins.
jknbt if you think there is a rapture in God’s Word.
If you think God has dispensations.
if you think any will go to heaven
If you think it is only the tribe of Judah i.e. the Jews that are God’s People
No wonder you can not understand – but keep on reading the works of men -
Lazarus was not allowed into heaven after he died because his sins were not atoned for (Lk 16:19-31)…he was allowed to go to Abraham’s bosom, paradise, because the sins were covered and judgment was postponed. All O.T. saints who were true children of Abraham enjoyed this privilege while sinners burned not too far away across the divide. After the death, burial, resurrection of Christ, the O.T. saints rose from the dead to go to heaven, since their sins were now atoned for. Some were even seen in Jerusalem on resurrection morning (Matthew 27:50-53).
yes, the bible clearly teaches Rapture, dispensations, overcomers welcome in heaven, and that Israel is distinct from the church. The church has not replaced Israel. Replacement theology is bogus.
Study what I recommended in dispensationalism plus the covenants. It will be like a chiropractor popping out a sorely twisted back when Jesus, the great chiropractor, straightens you out. “Craaakkkk” Listening for the great cracking sound someday coming from your direction.
you suffer from a spiritual pride that has blinded you. You seem to think that God is going to give you special revelations like he did Paul….nope, not going to happen. You expect to have a private revelatory word from the Lord on every key doctrine. Short of that, any teaching is just the worthless doctrines of men. If you see a lightning flash, it will not be God giving you peculiar and special revelations and original teachings. You are not the St. Paul for this generation, truthseeker. so get off your high horse, get done with your overwhelming spiritual pride, and try to have a teachable spirit. People like yourself have to be broken or to be crushed like a grape at harvest time or the alabaster jar (Mk 14:3) for God to get through to you. He can arrange that if necessary. Leave me out of it, God, I tried.
Mr. Truthseeker, here are some helpful links you might take a look at to study about dispensations or economies…this seems to be the earthquake fault in your system of theology…lack of understanding about how God has established different dispensations with corresponding covenants is the well-spring of your doctrinal errors:
http://biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/
http://www.evidenceunseen.com/theology/scripture/hermeneutics/dispensationalism-versus-covenantalism/
http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/defending-dispensationalism-standing-fast-in-the-liberty
http://www.preservedwords.com/
https://www.fbcaa.org/BibleStudies/collegesundayschool/Miscellaneous/DispensationChart.pdf
https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/larkin/dt/26.cfm
https://www.gotquestions.org/seven-dispensations.html
jknbt
Please do not bother to give me the work of man —-i rarely, if ever, read the work of men only the Word of God.
the doctrine of dispensation is how man “forces’ God to changes –I totally reject it. the Word never taught it.
It’s OK for God to put men to death today for not resting on Christ’s Sabbath but now is another “dispensation’ and God has now “”changed His mind”‘ and no longer puts you to death for using HIS Sabbath as your day of work or what ever.
A Sin today is a sin tomorrow and for ever. The Torah was obeyed by Abraham– that is a fact, The Torah reveals to man the mind of God — Jeremiah 31: 33 states God is putting the Torah in the minds and in the natures of those He calls and Paul confirms that factd.
Mr. jknbt what you do not seem to understand the LAW NEVER justified a single person including Jesus Christ.
If I keep the Law perfect which is not possible for any man to do — it will never cover my passed sins — ever. Keeping the Law is our duty.
by the way as Christ is sinless — He never needed to be reconciled/justified — but 100% of humans DO!
The Law is the witness against mankind.
According to Torah Law there must be 2 witnesses that will testify before a person can be put to death.
Why do you think Jesus Christ wrote the 10 Commandments on two tables of stone with HIS own finger??
If the two tables of stone were cast aside, according to Torah Law, God can not put any in the Lake of Fire. Upon the return of Jesu Christ He could not slay His enemies as He stated He will DO.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, — two tables of testimony, —tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
I am the servant of my Master Jesus Christ and as He owns me I must do what He commands — there is no reward for a slave doing the will of his master — it is the duty of a slave to obey.
“” but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”"
I teach the Law — you teach the law is nailed to the stake which it was not!
Which one of us is doing the will of our Savior ? Which of us will be called “great” in the kingdom of God?
more of your gibberish, poor stewardship of my time to bother, you have had your dose of indigestible diamond hard pearls for the day…
At least we now know you’re a dispensationalist, jknbt, which is progress after years and years of beating around the bush. I knew you were but didn’t want to be first to broach the subject lest you accuse me of straw-manning you. Thank you for admitting you hold Darby and Scofield as a higher authority than Jesus the Christ.
Of course, the 10 Commandments ARE very much a part of the New Covenant, as is the Catholic (Christian) Church that Jesus Christ Himself established. Christians must live by the 10 Commandments, or else. Jesus only established ONE Church. Not many and not choose what you want.
In addition to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the new covenant is His Church that HE endowed with all 7 of the Holy Sacraments necessary for our salvation (Baptism, Penance, Holy Eucharist, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, and Extreme Unction). The last 3 are vocations. Obviously the last 3 depend on your vocation in life.
Don’t let anyone confuse you Catholics.
God bless you.
Merry and Blessed Christmas to all Christians.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JESUS.
Dakota buddy, merry Christmas back at you! My Christmas gift for you and all catholics is to call you to come out of babylon and to receive the free gift of salvation which is by grace through faith that God offers you:
you catholics serve God in vain because you have never repented in the first place:
1) Worshiping gods/goddesses other than the one God through prayers to saints & angels (breaks first commandment)
2) Using idols, icons, statues & etc as part of worship, strictly forbidden (breaks second commandment)
3) Works salvation….take a good long hard look at the letter to Galatians, and you will realize you have fallen from grace. Being baptized, trying to be a good person, & doing good works doesn’t save anyone, you foolish Galatians…salvation is only by grace through faith
4) Jesus said people who turn from the bible and teach the doctrines of man are serving God in vain…see Matt 15:9
Repent while you can. You have been warned.
See:
https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0082/0082_01.asp
Catholics will fill their churches the Sunday after the Rapture. They will ask their priests, “What just happened” and “Why were we left behind”…I hope you will consider what I am saying here so that you are not among them.
the 10 commandments were around long before jesus showed up, christianity was created after the death of jesus just like muslims did after mohammed died
the teaching of dispensations or economies is plainly taught in the scripture. The only way to “rightly divide the truth” is to understand how God has provided an overall plan of salvation that changes with the covenants, generations, and failure of man to perform the previous covenants…see 2 Tim 2:15….”Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
The greek word here is oikonomos which means most closely, “economy”. It is also translated in the N.T. as “stewardship,” “dispensation,” “administration,” “job,” and “commission”.
see https://www.prophecyupdate.com/why-true-christianity-is-dispensational.html, long quote borrowed as follows:
The various forms of the word dispensation appear in the New Testament twenty times. The verb oikonomeo is used once in Luke 16:2, where it is translated “to be a steward.” The noun oikonomos appears ten times (Luke 12:42; 16:1, 3, 8; Rom. 16:23; 1 Cor. 4:1, 2; Gal. 4:2; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 4:10) and is usually translated “steward” or “manager” (but “treasurer” in Rom. 16:23). The noun oikonomia is used nine times (Luke 16:2, 3, 4; 1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 1:10; 3:2, 9; Col. 1:25; 1 Tim. 1:4). In these instances it is translated variously (“stewardship,” “dispensation,” “administration,” “job,” “commission”).
Didn’t you just say, 30 minutes before this comment, that you were out of time, jknbt, funny way of showing it.
http://nailedtocross.com/index.php/articles/common-errors/85-dispensationalism-debunked
Paul wrote his conclusion to the letter to the Ephesians in chapter 3… and then sat down and wrote 3 more chapters…nice of you to notice that I am like Paul!
You believe God has 2 people, 2 plans, 2 bodies; the church and Israel with a separate destiny for each. Whereas God says believers are all one in Christ, the seed of Abraham (Gal 3) because the middle wall of partition was broken down (Eph 2) all of which unequivocally applies to Gentiles (Eph 3) who are co heirs with Israel.
Now then, jknbt, in examining your list of the various forms of the word dispensation i find none that refer to the “7 dispensations” In fact every time G3622-oikonomia is translated as dispensation the text is referring to the sharing of the gospels. Where it is otherwise translated as job or commission it relates to the author’s role, or responsibility, during the author’s life and not to some other period of history as you will claim.
Prove me wrong.
oops, left out a reference, see Ephesians 3:2….”If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward”
the word dispensation there is oikonomos or economy if you prefer…
here’s another good study: https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/2014/07/26/the-dispensation-of-grace/
jknbt if God can change His over all plan of salvation when ever He wants I hope you make it before He changes the requirements for a rapture or where He will rapture you guys — maybe back into a wilderness some where or he goes back to a first resurrection or drops both of them because He changed His mind altogether regarding why He should even bother with men.
or He may just let us blow our selves to atoms in world war three.
If Almighty God can and does change – then there are no absolutes, then there are no certainties, then we can not know His Will or His narrow Way as all would be subject to change.
Look you have even changed what Christ has taught about God’s Holy righteous law. David ran it through his mind daily, Jesus Christ because He did not transgress even one very fine point became our Passover, all of the prophets lived by God’s Torah as has every man of God — but not you!
jknbt my Father never changes — sin at the beginning is the same as sin today. the Law was in place before creation began and will remain for all eternity.
Yes, jknbt, and in Eph 3:7 Paul tells us that he was made a servant of the gospel and nowhere, in this letter, does he conflate it with salvation but rather to his duty to preach.
jknbt you are studying the thoughts and words of men not God.
It is men speaking their thoughts to you not God which is why what you believe is in error.
the Thessalonians studied the scriptures daily to determine what was true and what were lies of men.
jknbt
do you ever read the context of the thought?
2 If ye have heard of the “dispensation” of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3622 oikonomía (from 3621 /oikonoméō, “a steward, managing a household”) – properly, a stewardship, management (administration), i.e. where a person looks after another’s affairs (resources).
Paul is not describing how God changes but that Jesus Christ chose him to be the steward, the manager of the kindness of God towards the gentiles i.e. which is what the Ephesians are.
and jknbt Christ did chose Paul and turned him around 180 degrees and sent him to open the door to the kingdom of God for gentiles.
When Christ gave the 12, not just Peter, the keys to the kingdom, what do you suppose that meant?
It meant the 12 and Paul were given the duty, the responsibility to preach the good news of the coming of the kingdom of God to earth and all those that God the Father called to Christ the 13 open that door to them by explaining they must repent of transgressing the Holy Law, they must be baptized and then by the laying on of hands receive the indwelling of the Holy “seed” of God which is the Father’s Spirit.
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar’-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
How anyone can make grace which also means kindness into a get out of jail free card is beyond me.
Grace means when all of mankind were sinners – none were converted none had the Father’s spirit, –not one — Then the Father allowed His Son to die for SINNERS — some will die for good men — who would die for an evil sinner — I thank my Father that He sent His son to die for me while I was a full on sinner.
jknbt I know what is written above will not be understood — men have twisted your mind with the lies of Satan to the point your eyes can not see nor can your ears hear truth.
you suffer from a spiritual pride that has blinded you. You seem to think that God is going to give you special revelations like he did Paul….nope, not going to happen. You expect to have a private revelatory word from the Lord on every key doctrine. Short of that, any teaching is just the worthless doctrines of men. If you see a lightning flash, it will not be God giving you peculiar and special revelations and original teachings. You are not the St. Paul for this generation, truthseeker. so get off your high horse, get done with your overwhelming spiritual pride, and try to have a teachable spirit. People like yourself have to be broken or to be crushed like a grape at harvest time or the alabaster jar (Mk 14:3) for God to get through to you. He can arrange that if necessary. Leave me out of it, God, I tried.
JKNBT
the bottom line — all you can do is “tell” me I am wrong as there are no scriptures or logic you can use to demonstrate what you are telling me is truth.
you brought up Ephesians 3:2 and were shown why the word dispensation as used does not indicate God changing direction on His Plan of Salvation or is changing any thing.
If you can logically show how the word translated as dispensation as used by Paul can means anything other then Paul was chosen to be a steward of God’s Word to the gentile I will take the time to read it — but you can not do so.
I have been humbled by my Father many times — if a converted person is not being corrected by the Father then they are bastards.
But the blessings He has given me are more then I could list in 100 pages.
Because I deeply despise the satanic religion today falsely called christianity and all it’s difference doctrines and do not hesitate to speak against it — you say I am over whelmed with pride.
I KNOW for certain what I hold as TRUTH is accepted by a tiny number of people which means I am in the .01% of those called Christians and yet I speak out boldly knowing almost all are against me.
There have been many papers and articles placed on BIN showing by scripture and logic what i find to be truth and why—- the vast majority of those commenting against my papers just tell me to repent —- as they can not refute the scriptures nor the logic and neither can you jknbt.
When I ask deep questions of a person that appears to have knowledge of the Word, they NEVER respond.
jknbt — I will ask you, what happens to the little kids that dies?
My grand mother’s first child at 4 years old was run over by a trolley and her head was cut off – is she in heaven?
jknbt — answer according the Word of God – what say you? Where is my aunt, the one I never met.
Give me the scriptures that answer this question — I care nothing for your opinion.
your question is easy…who are these experts you are talking to that can’t answer this? Matt. 18:10 plainly says that children who die in their innocence before the age of accountability always see the face of the heavenly father….once again, surprised that a sooper-dooper saint and world class bible scholar like you has never heard the bible answer…It is:
Matthew 18:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
you are very argumentative…you will probably have a smart reply for this one also…
and p.s…I don’t care whether you respect my opinions or not…
Why would you think Matt 18:10 is speaking about dead children, jknbt, when 4 verses earlier Jesus talks about causing the little-uns to stumble and 2 verses afterwards Jesus is talking about a shepherd finding a lost sheep.
You are arguing that Jesus was talking about murdering children, which He isn’t, and the shepherd being happy upon finding the carcass, which he wouldn’t be.
Do you even know words, bro?
jknt
It certainly appears you can not read, which gives clarity to why you believe what you do.
You wrote Matt. 18:10 plainly says that children who die in their innocence before the age of accountability — always see the face of the heavenly father
that is not at all what Matt 18:10 says: –”their angels— do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
i
It is NOT the children that see the Fathers face it is the angels which watch over them.
jknbt if children go to heaven when they die — does that not make Jesus Christ a liar??
His statements:
Unless you become converted you can never enter the kingdom of God
and — unless you drink My blood and eat My flesh there is NO life in you.
those that endure until the end shall be saved.
and there are many more like the above.
jknbt — this will be a shock to you but this is not the only day of salvation. This is the time of the harvest of God’s First Fruits only, no one else is offered salvation now.
there are billions upon billions that have lived and died that never heard the only name give under heaven where by men can be saved —
Consider all the Chinese’s that have lived and died over the last 4000 years that nation has existed and until the catholic pedophiles began to travel to that country they never heard a single word from the WORD.
Are you ever read Ezekiel 37. the dead of the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes, will rise in the 2nd resurrection in bodies of flesh and blood.
this time is also spoken of by Jesus Christ in Revelation 20 , after the 1000 years of the rule of Christ on earth the rest of the dead rise to be judged in and by the same judgement as were the first fruits of God that were resurrected in the First resurrection.
The 2nd resurrection is when the abortions, the little children, the pagans and all that never had their one chance for salvation are returned to physical life and go through the process of salvation just like ALL that will entered the Kingdom
The are 3 resurrections
the first is to eternal life for the first fruits
the 2nd is to judgment, Ezekiel 37, rev 20
the 3rd is to condemnation, the lake of fire.
Satan invented a rapture to deceive the majority of so called christians and it has worked very well.
“It is NOT the children that see the Fathers face it is the angels which watch over them.”
For anyone interested where Truthseeker gets the idea of gaurdian angels it is found, written in general terms, in Psalm 34:7, Psalm 91:11 & Hebrews 1:14
Truthseeker’s Aunt is in Paradise in Abraham’s embrace.
jknbt
yes I am and yes I have! and I care nothing of the opinions of men –zero, the opinions of men and 5 buck will get you a cup of coffee.
Please do not take it personally it is not personal – I reject everyone’s opinion.
the only opinion that matters is God’s.
You wrote:
you are very argumentative…you will probably have a smart reply for this one also…
and p.s…I don’t care whether you respect my opinions or not…”"‘
And I await your response as I answered my own question from the Word of GOD and it is a very logical–and true to the Word reply.
jknbt I missed this comment of your —
and my only comment: How do you derive from scriptures what you wrote below?
NONE of this can be confirmed by the Word of God, these are your own thoughts and opinions which came out of your mind and not the Word.
You are creating your own doctrines and facts.
“Lazarus was not allowed into heaven after he died because his sins were not atoned for (Lk 16:19-31)…he was allowed to go to Abraham’s bosom, paradise, because the sins were covered and judgment was postponed. All O.T. saints who were true children of Abraham enjoyed this privilege while sinners burned not too far away across the divide. After the death, burial, resurrection of Christ, the O.T. saints rose from the dead to go to heaven, since their sins were now atoned for. Some were even seen in Jerusalem on resurrection morning (Matthew 27:50-53).
FINAL REPLY, TRUTH AVOIDER:
the term angels, greek aggeloi, used here is loosely used, it can mean spirits…the spirits of the children get to see the face of God because their hearts are pure…go to the greek,
http://biblehub.com/greek/32.htm
here’s a link for the phrase pure in heart:
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=pure+in+heart&qs_version=NKJV
try to remember that the bible was not written in KJV english…one of the characteristics of hebrew especially and also greek is that they had a small vocabulary with many meanings for each word….compare the english word “run” which has as many as 60 uses, such as run for president, run in a stocking, run a machine, run a race, etc…ANGELS, angeloi in greek, can have many meanings, usually angel or messenger…but it can mean spirit as in this case, since an angel is mostly a spirit being (we are mostly soulish beings)
man, you won’t even let me send your aunt to heaven…okay, you figure out where she is…
okay, I’m done…if you are going to play your ‘bait and bite” game, get someone else, don’t have the time…mayhem likes to play that game, get him to answer your questions…if you see me dealing with your blogs, it is because I am working on a study or paper on the particular topic you are raging about…the discussion forces me to think through the issues…your objections are typical of one extreme end of the responses I get…
you are the most argumentative bible blaster I have ever dealt with…you will no doubt argue with God to his face to defend your doctrines, just like the rock hard pharisees did Jesus…have fun, don’t think it is going to get you anything…
the scripture that comes to mind for you is Psalm 103:9 He will not always strive with us, Nor will He keep His anger forever…..you really can so NO to God one time too many…it is frustrating because I can quote 100 scriptures in a row like I did discussing dispensationalism, and because it is not in your personal supply of pet doctrines, and because God hasn’t humbled himself to give you a unique personal “lightning bolt on damascus road” revelation, you jump behind the billboard sign you have put up in your front yard, saying, NO, this is just a doctrine of Man! as in Matt 15:9
so go play “bait and bite” with God himself…he has all the answers you need if you can receive them…
signing off on this one, have fun, JKNBT
oh too bad jknbt I just posted another paper you will love.
Yes, jknbt, the pure in heart shall see God…
Matthew 5:8 – Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
… but when? The passage you referenced certainly doesn’t say.
jknbt Mayhem is correct and in addition and just as important — just who, according to the Word of GOD, are the “pure in heart’?
And remember the Words of Jesus Christ: 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
So, there are none Good and unless our nature/heart is purified by God none have a pure heart even the children,No not ONE!
f the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy [shall be] upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.
Jesus (Yahshua) the Lord God of Israel, is the one who will redeem the true Israel of God (Luke 1:68, 24:21).
Isaiah is speaking of the second gathering of the true Israel of God, a future prophecy that has yet to occur.
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Christ also came to redeem those that were under the law, that they also might receive the adoption of sons (Gal 4:5, John 1:17, Rom 3:20).
destined you are so thoroughly confused you do not even understand the scriptures you quote
Show us where it is stated:—-”the ‘TRUE’ Israel of God”
Can you not under stand every last man and women that has ever lived or will ever live has been and will be “under” the Law?
“Under” the condemnation of the Law as there is not one person that can match Jesus Christ and be accounted as without sin?
All have sin and come short of the glory of God. — that means we all are condemned to death for our sins. Do you not understand the term “all”
destined here in Jeremiah 31 God tells Jeremiah He will be the God of all the families of Israel.
Destined which in your “true” Israel are the families of Israel? is it the Smith’s or the Jones’s – who?
1At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
2Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
God’s love for Israel is everlasting — but not so if He cast them away!!
4Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry
Again God is going to build Israel and calls them virgins i.e. spiritual virgins..
5Thou shalt yet plant vines upon the mountains of Samaria: the planters shall plant, and shall eat them as common things.
6For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
Destined who today is the mount Ephraim?
7For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
Who is Jacob?? Who is the remnant of Israel?
It is the remnant of Israel God will save NOT your “true Israel”
8Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
Destined this is describing the 2nd exodus.
9They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
Destined in your concocted “true Israel” today who is God’s first born, who is Ephraim? Is it a certain church a certain race what?
10Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
God is not stating He will gather some new people, He is going to gather the 12 tribes of Israel He scattered through out the gentile nations as punishment for not obeying His Law and for breaking the covenant.
America is very soon going to be crushed by Germany, there will be a 3rd world war and Germany wins this time and then they take the 1/3 remnant of America into captivity and all the nations of the House of Israel as well.
Your head is harder the granite destined
jknbt
you missed this comment on what happens to little kids – your comment? not even close.
It certainly appears you can not read, which gives clarity to why you believe what you do.
You wrote Matt. 18:10 plainly says that children who die in their innocence before the age of accountability — always see the face of the heavenly father
that is not at all what Matt 18:10 says: –”their angels— do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
i
It is NOT the children that see the Fathers face it is the angels which watch over them.
jknbt if children go to heaven when they die — does that not make Jesus Christ a liar??
His statements:
Unless you become converted you can never enter the kingdom of God
and — unless you drink My blood and eat My flesh there is NO life in you.
those that endure until the end shall be saved.
and there are many more like the above.
jknbt — this will be a shock to you but this is not the only day of salvation. This is the time of the harvest of God’s First Fruits only, no one else is offered salvation now.
there are billions upon billions that have lived and died that never heard the only name give under heaven where by men can be saved —
Consider all the Chinese’s that have lived and died over the last 4000 years that nation has existed and until the catholic pedophiles began to travel to that country they never heard a single word from the WORD.
Are you ever read Ezekiel 37. the dead of the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes, will rise in the 2nd resurrection in bodies of flesh and blood.
this time is also spoken of by Jesus Christ in Revelation 20 , after the 1000 years of the rule of Christ on earth the rest of the dead rise to be judged in and by the same judgement as were the first fruits of God that were resurrected in the First resurrection.
The 2nd resurrection is when the abortions, the little children, the pagans and all that never had their one chance for salvation are returned to physical life and go through the process of salvation just like ALL that will entered the Kingdom
The are 3 resurrections
the first is to eternal life for the first fruits
the 2nd is to judgment, Ezekiel 37, rev 20
the 3rd is to condemnation, the lake of fire.
Satan invented a rapture to deceive the majority of so called christians and it has worked very well.
jknbt
what most do when the scriptures become too difficult to twist and the logic as well — they tell me i better repent of not agreeing with their opinions or there favorite twist-able scripture and then they turn in a huff and leave.
What’s most surprising, Truthseeker, is it never occurs to the dispensationalists that they’re the only ones who believe the OT folk were saved by the law. But, of course, that is not true for salvation always, and only ever, comes from grace (Gen 6:8) just ask Noah.
Mayhem and no one every ask questions, like “what is the purpose of God’s Law”?
Most today will say it was given as a burden to vex Israel.
there is one short simple scripture which explains the purpose of the law to me.
3 “Can two walk together, except they be agreed’?
Our Father will never allow man as hard headed and lawless as he had been for over 6000 year to enter His Family. That fact is explained best in Rev 22
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
The Lawless dogs will never be allowed in our Father’s family –for which I thank my God daily.
Once in captivity the remnant of the nations of Israel will finally come to see this as the Truth.