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The Prophetic Book of Enoch - Cross-referenced

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This long hidden “Book of Enoch and Noah”, which originally was part of the Holy Bible; and was wrongfully removed by powerful evil people who did not want you to read it, because of what it says about them; is the missing-link and binding-tie between The Holy Bible and The Holy Koran and it contains proof that the original Holy Koran, contained in God’s newly completed “King of kings’ Bible“, is undoubtedly from The Ruler of The Universe (God/Allah), and, when correctly interpreted, it is in perfect harmony with the Bible (see chapter 104). 

 

 

Enoch

The Book of Enoch (Idris) the Prophet; Noah and Archangel Prince Michael.

1:1 The word of the blessing of Enoch, how he blessed the Elect and the righteous, who were to exist in the “Time of Trouble”; to the rejection of all the wicked and unGodly (Ps. 1), Enoch, a righteous man, was with God, answered and spoke, while his eyes were open, and while he saw a holy vision which was in the heavens (Gen. 5:24). This the angel showed me (Noah).
1:2 From them I heard all things, and understood what I saw, that which will not take place in this generation, but in a generation which is to succeed at a distant period (Dan. 12:1-4), on account of the Elect (Matt. 24:22).
1:3 Upon their account I spoke and conversed with Him, Who will go forth from this habitation, the Holy and Mighty One, the God of the world.
1:4 Who will hereafter tread upon Mt. Sinai (Ex. 19:11, 18, 20; 24:16); appear with His hosts; and be manifested in the strength of His power from heaven.
1:5 All shall be afraid, and the Watchers be terrified.
1:6 Great fear and trembling shall seize them, even to the ends of the Earth. The holy “mountains” shall be troubled, and the exalted “hills” depressed, melting like a honeycomb in the flame. The Earth shall be immersed, and all things which are in it perish; while Judgement shall come upon all, even upon the righteous (Rev. 20:11-15; ch. 89:41).
1:7 But to them shall He give peace: He shall preserve the Elect, and towards them exercise clemency (ch. 6:11-12; Rev. 14:1-3; 21:27; Sura 69:18-24).
1:8 Then shall all belong to God; be happy and blessed; and the splendour of the Godhead shall illuminate them (Isa. 40:5; 65:21-25).
2:1 Behold He comes with ten thousands of His holy warriors, to execute Judgement upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all of flesh for every thing which the sinful and unGodly have done, and committed against Him (Jude 14-15).
3:1 All who are in the heavens know the work.
3:2 They know that the heavenly luminaries change not their paths; that each rises and sets regularly, every one at its proper period, without transgressing the commands which they have received (Ps. 19:1-6). They behold the Earth, and understand what is transacted there, from the beginning to the end of it.
3:3 They see that every work of God is invariable (ch. 104:8-9) in the period of its appearance. They behold Summer and Winter; perceiving that the whole Earth is full of water; and that the cloud, the dew, and the rain refresh it.
4:1 They consider and behold every tree, how it appears to wither, and every leaf to fall off, except of fourteen trees, which are not deciduous; which wait from the old, to the appearance of the new leaf, for two or three Winters.
5:1 Again they consider the days of Summer that the sun is upon it at its very beginning; while you seek for a covered and shady spot on account of the burning sun; while the Earth is scorched up with fervid heat, and you become incapable of walking either upon the ground or upon the rocks in consequence of that heat.
6:1 They consider how the trees, when they put forth their green leaves, become covered, and produce fruit; understanding every thing, and knowing that He Who lives for ever does all these things for you:
6:2 That the works at the beginning of every existing year, that all His works, are subservient to Him, and invariable; yet as God has appointed, so are all things brought to pass.
6:3 They see, too, how the seas and the rivers together complete their respective operations:
6:4 But you endure not patiently, nor fulfill the Commandments of the Lord; but you transgress and slander His greatness; and malicious are the words in your polluted mouths against His Majesty.
6:5 Ye withered in heart, no peace shall be to you!
6:6 Therefore your days shall you curse, and the years of your lives shall perish; perpetual hatred shall be multiplied, and you shall not obtain mercy.
6:7 In those days shall you resign your peace with the eternal maledictions of all the righteous, and sinners will perpetually curse you;
6:8 Shall curse you with the unGodly.
6:9 The Elect shall possess Light, Joy, and Peace; and they shall inherit the Earth (Matt. 5:5; Ps. 1:1-6).
6:10 But you, ye unholy, shall be accursed.
6:11 Then shall Wisdom be given to the Elect, all of whom shall live, and not again transgress by disrespect or pride; but shall humble themselves, possessing prudence, and shall not repeat transgression (Rev. 12:7).
6:12 They shall not be condemned (to death again – the “dead” – Matt. 8:22) the whole period of their lives, nor die in torment and indignation; but the sum of the days of their life shall be completed, and they shall grow old in peace; while the years of their happiness shall be multiplied with Joy, and with Peace for ever, the whole duration of their existence.
7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful (Gen. 6:1-2).
7:2 And when the angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other: Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
7:3 Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps not be disposed to the performance of this enterprise;
7:4 And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.
7:5 But they answered him and said: We all swear;
7:6 And bind ourselves by mutual oaths, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
7:7 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual oaths. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of Mount Armon.
7:8 That mountain, therefore, they called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual oaths.
7:9 These are the names of their chiefs: Samyaza, who was their leader, Urakabarameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Ramuel, Danyal, Azkeel, Sarakuyal, Asael, Armers, Batraal, Anane, Zavebe, Samsaveel, Ertael, Turel, Yomyael, Arazyal. These were the prefects of the two hundred angels, and the remainder were all with them.
7:10 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantation, and the dividing of roots and trees.
7:11 And they conceiving brought forth giants (Gen. 6:4-6);
7:12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labour of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
7:13 So they then turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
7:14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
7:15 Then the Earth reproved the unrighteous (by the climate and diseases).
8:1 Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, made them see that which was behind them and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.
8:2 Disrespect increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.
8:3 Amazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots;
8:4 Armers taught the solution of pharmacy;
8:5 Barakayal taught the observers of the stars;
8:6 Akibeel taught signs;
8:7 Tamiel taught astronomy;
8:8 And Asaredel taught the motion of the moon.
8:9 And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.
9:1 Then Michael and Gabriel, Raphael, Suryal, and Uriel, looked down from heaven, and saw the quantity of blood which was shed on Earth, and all the iniquity which was done upon it, and said one to another: It is the voice of their cries;
9:2 The Earth, deprived of her children, has cried even to the gates of heaven.
9:3 And now to you, O ye holy ones of heaven, the souls (Beings) of men complain, saying: Bring Judgement to us from The Most High. Then they said to their Lord, the King: Thou art Lord of lords, God of gods, King of kings. The Throne of Thy glory is for ever and ever, and for ever and ever is Thy name sanctified and glorified. Thou art blessed and glorified.
9:4 Thou hast made all things; Thou possessest power over all things; and all things are open and manifest before Thee. Thou beholdest all things, and nothing can be concealed from Thee (Mark 4:22).
9:5 Thou hast seen what Azazyel has done, how he has taught every species of iniquity upon Earth, and has disclosed to the world all the secret things which are done in the heavens.
9:6 Samyaza also has taught sorcery, to whom Thou hast given authority over those who are associated with him. They have gone together to the daughters of men; have lain with them; have become polluted.
9:7 And have discovered crimes to them.
9:8 The women furthermore have brought forth giants.
9:9 Thus has the whole Earth been filled with blood and with iniquity.
9:10 And now behold the souls (Beings) of those who are “dead” (Matt. 8:22), cry out,
9:11 And complain even to the gate of heaven.
9:12 Their groaning ascends; nor can they escape from the unrighteousness which is committed on Earth. Thou knowest all things, before they exist (Acts 15:18).
9:13 Thou knowest these things, and what has been done by them; yet Thou dost not speak to us.
9:14 What on account of these things ought we to do to them?
10:1 Then the Most High, the Great and Holy One spoke;
10:2 And sent Arsayalalyur to the son of Lamech
10:3 Saying: Say to him in My name; Conceal thyself.
10:4 Then explain to him the consummation which is about to take place; for all the Earth shall perish; the waters of a deluge shall come over the whole Earth, and all things which are in it shall be destroyed.
10:5 And now teach him how he may escape, and how his seed may remain in all the Earth (Gen. 6:11-22).
10:6 Again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazyel hand and foot; cast him into darkness; and opening the desert which is in Dudael, cast him in there.
10:7 Throw upon him hurled and pointed stones (Sura 2:24); covering him with darkness;
10:8 There shall he remain for ever; cover his face, that he may not see the Light.
10:9 And in the great Day of Judgement let him be cast into The Fire (Rev. 20:10; Sura 2:24).
10:10 Restore the Earth, which the angels have corrupted; and announce life to it, that I may revive it.
10:11 All the sons of men shall not perish in consequence of every secret, by which the Watchers have destroyed, and which they have taught, their offspring.
10:12 All the Earth has been corrupted by the teaching of the work of Azazyel. To him therefore ascribe the whole crime.
10:13 To Gabriel also the Lord said: Go to the biters, to the reprobates, to the children of fornication; and destroy the children of fornication; the offspring of the Watchers, from among men; bring them forth, and send them one against another. Let them perish by mutual slaughter; for length of days shall not be theirs (Gen. 6:13).
10:14 They shall all entreat thee, but their fathers shall not obtain their wishes concerning them; for they shall hope for eternal Life, and that their sons may live, each of them, five hundred years.
10:15 To Michael likewise the Lord said: Go and announce his crime to Samyaza, and to the others who are with him, who have been associated with women, that they might be polluted with their impurity (Gen. 3:17; 1 Tim. 2:14).
10:16 And when all their sons shall be slain, when they shall see the destruction of their beloved, bind them for seventy generations underneath the Earth, even to the Day of Judgement, and of consummation, until The Judgement, the effect of which will last for ever, be completed.
10:17 Immediately after this shall he, together with them, burn and perish; they shall be bound until the consummation of many generations.
10:18 Destroy all the souls (Beings) addicted to dalliance, and the offspring of the Watchers, for they have tyrannized over mankind.
10:19 Let every oppressor perish from the face of the Earth;
10:20 Let every evil work be destroyed (Isa. 14:4).
10:21 The Plant of Righteousness and of rectitude appear, and the work of righteousness and rectitude become a blessing.
10:22 Righteousness and rectitude shall be for ever planted with delight (Isa. 26:9).
10:23 And then shall all the holy people give thanks, and live until they have begotten a thousand children, while the whole period of their youth, and their Sabbaths shall be complete in peace. In those days all the Earth shall be cultivated in righteousness; it shall be wholly planted with trees, and filled with benediction; every tree of delight shall be planted in it (Ps. 67).
10:24 In it shall vines be planted; and the vine which shall be planted in it shall yield fruit to excess; every seed, which shall be sown in it, shall produce for one measure a thousand; and one measure of olives shall produce ten presses of oil (Mic. 4:3-4).
10:25 Purify the Earth from all oppression, from all injustice, from all crime, from all disrespect, and from all the pollution which is committed upon it. Exterminate them from the Earth.
10:26 Then shall all the children of men be righteous, and all nations shall pay Me divine honours, and bless men; all shall adore Me (Isa. 33:22).
10:27 The Earth shall be cleansed from all corruption, from every crime, from all punishment, and from all suffering; neither will I again send a deluge upon it from generation to generation for ever.
11:1 In those days I will open the treasures of blessing which are in heaven, that I may cause them to descend upon Earth, and upon all the works and labour of man.
11:2 Peace and equality shall associate with the sons of men all the days of the world, in every generation of it.
12:1 Before all these things Enoch was concealed; nor did any one of the sons of men know where he was concealed, where he had been, and what had happened.
12:2 He was wholly engaged with the holy ones (Gen. 5:24), and with the Watchers in his days.
12:3 I, Enoch, was blessing the great Lord and King of Peace (Gen. 14:18).
12:4 And behold the Watchers called me Enoch the scribe (writer – the first Prophet).
12:5 Then the Lord said to me: Enoch, scribe of righteousness, go tell the Watchers of heaven, who have deserted the lofty sky, and their holy everlasting station who have been polluted with women
12:6 And have done as the sons of men do, by taking to themselves wives, and who have been greatly corrupted on the Earth;
12:7 That on the Earth they shall never obtain peace and remission of sin. For they shall not rejoice in their offspring; they shall behold the slaughter of their beloved; shall lament for the destruction of their sons; and shall petition for ever; but shall not obtain mercy and peace (2 Pet. 2:4-5).
13:1 Then Enoch passing on said to Azazyel: Thou shalt not obtain peace. A great sentence is gone forth against thee. He shall bind thee;
13:2 Neither shall relief, mercy and supplication be thine, on account of the oppression which thou hast taught;
13:3 And on account of every act of blasphemy, tyranny, and sin, which thou hast discovered to the children of men.
13:4 Then departing from him I spoke to them all together;
13:5 And they all became terrified, and trembled;
13:6 Beseeching me to write for them a memorial of supplication, that they might obtain forgiveness; and that I might make the memorial of their prayer ascend up before the God of heaven; because they could not themselves thenceforwards address Him, nor raise up their eyes to heaven on account of the disgraceful offense for which they were judged (ch. 67:4).
13:7 Then I wrote a memorial of their prayer and supplication, for their spirits, for every thing which they had done, and for the subject of their entreaty, (that they might obtain remission and rest).
13:8 Proceeding on, I continued over the waters of Danbadan, which is on the right to the West of Armon, reading the memorial of their prayer, until I fell asleep.
13:9 And behold a dream came to me, and visions appeared above me. I fell down, and saw a vision of punishment, that I might relate it to the sons of heaven (Gen. 6:2) and rebuke them. When I awoke I went to them. All being collected together stood weeping in Oubelseyael, which is situated between Lebanon and Seneser, with their faces veiled.
13:10 I related in their presence all the visions which I had seen, and my dream;
13:11 And began to utter these words of righteousness, rebuking the Watchers of heaven.
14:1 This is the Book (ch. 81:2) of the words of righteousness, and of the reproof of the Watchers, who belong to the world, according to that which He, Who is holy and great, commanded in the vision. I perceived in my dream, that I was now speaking with a tongue of flesh, and with my breath, which the Mighty One has put into the mouths of men, that they might converse with it;
14:2 And understand with the heart. As He has created and given to men the power of comprehending the Word of Understanding, so has He created and given to me the power of rebuking the Watchers, the offspring of heaven. I have written your petition; and in my vision it has been shown me, that what you request will not be granted you in all the days of the world.
14:3 Judgement has been passed upon you: your request will not be granted you.
14:4 From this time forward, never shall you ascend into heaven; He has said, that on the Earth He will bind you, as long as the world endures (Jude 6).
14:5 But before these things you shall behold the destruction of your beloved sons; you shall not possess them, but they shall fall before you by the sword;
14:6 Neither shall you appeal for them, nor for yourselves.
14:7 But you shall weep and supplicate in silence. The words of the Book which I wrote.
14:8 A vision thus appeared to me.
14:9 Behold, in that vision clouds invited me, and a mist invited me; the running of the stars and flashes of lightning impelled and pressed me forwards, while winds in the vision assisted my flight, hastening me.
14:10 They elevated me aloft to heaven. I proceeded, until I arrived at a wall built with stones of crystal (Rev. 21:11). A tongue of fire surrounded it, which began to strike me with terror.
14:11 Into this vibrating flame I entered (2 kings 2:11);
14:12 And drew near to a spacious habitation built also with stones of crystal. Its wall, too, as well as pavement, were formed with stones of crystal, and crystal likewise was the ground. Its roof had the appearance of the running of the stars and flashes of lightning; and among them were cherubim of fire whose heaven was water. A flame burned around its walls and its portal blazed with fire. When I entered into this dwelling, it was hot as fire and cold as ice. No trace of delight or of life was there. Terror overwhelmed me, and a fearful shaking seized me.
14:13 Violently agitated and trembling, I fell upon my face. In the vision I looked;
14:14 And behold there was another habitation more spacious than the former (Rev. 21:11, 18), every entrance to which was open before me, erected in the midst of a vibrating flame.
14:15 So greatly did it excel (the former) in all points, in glory, in magnificence, and in magnitude, that it is impossible to describe to you either the splendour or the extent of it.
14:16 Its floor was on fire; above were lightnings and agitated stars, while its roof exhibited a blazing fire.
14:17 Attentively I surveyed it, and saw that it contained an exalted throne;
14:18 The appearance of which was like that of frost; while its circumference resembled the orb of the brilliant sun; and there was the voice of the cherubim.
14:19 From underneath this mighty throne rivers of flaming fire issued.
14:20 To look upon it was impossible.
14:21 One great in glory sat upon it (Rev. 4:2-11)
14:22 Whose robe was brighter than the Sun, and whiter than snow.
14:23 No angel was capable of penetrating to view the face of Him, the Glorious and the Beaming; nor could any mortal behold Him (John 1:18). A fire of flaming fire was around Him.
14:24 A fire also of great extent continued to rise up before Him; so that not one of those who surrounded Him was capable of approaching Him, among the myriads of myriads who were before Him (Rev. 5:11-12). And He required NOT holy counsel. Yet did not the sanctified, who were near Him, depart far from Him either by night or by day; nor were they removed from Him. I also was advanced so far, with a veil on my face, and trembling. Then the Lord with His Own mouth called me, saying: Approach here, Enoch, at My holy word.
14:25 And He raised me up, making me near even to the entrance. My eye was directed to the ground.
15:1 Then addressing me, He spoke and said: Hear, neither be afraid, O Enoch, O righteous man, and scribe of righteousness: approach here, and hear My voice. Go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to pray for them; You ought to pray for men, and not men for you.
15:2 Why have you forsaken your lofty and holy heaven, which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defiled yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten giants? (Gen. 6:2,4)
15:3 You who are spirit-Beings, holy, and having a life that is eternal, have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.
15:4 These however die and perish.
15:5 Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them, and that this might be transacted upon Earth.
15:6 But you from the beginning were made spiritual, living a life that is eternal, and not subject to death in all the generations of the world.
15:7 Therefore I made not wives for you, because being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven (Matt. 22:30).
15:8 Now the giants, who have been born of spirit and of flesh, shall be called upon earth evil spirits, and on Earth shall be their habitation. Evil spirits shall proceed from their flesh, because they were created from above; from the holy Watchers was their beginning and primary foundation. Evil spirits (demons) shall they be upon Earth, and the spirits of the wicked shall they be called. The habitation of the spirits of heaven shall be in heaven; but upon Earth shall be the habitation of terrestrial spirits, who are born in earth (1 Cor. 15:40).
15:9 The spirits of the giants shall be like clouds, which shall oppress, corrupt, fall, contend, and bruise upon Earth.
15:10 They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and those spirits (demons) shall rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction (Luke 4:33, 36; Matt. 8:28-34).
16:1 And as to the death of the giants, wheresoever their spirits (Beings) depart from their bodies, let their flesh, that which is perishable, be without Judgement. Thus shall they perish, until the day of the great consummation of the whole world. It shall be consummated respecting the Watchers and the irreverent (disrespectful).
16:2 And now to the Watchers, who have sent thee to pray for them, who in the beginning were in heaven,
16:3 Say: In heaven have you been; secret things however have not been manifested to you; yet you have known a reprobated mystery (Rev. 17:5).
16:4 And this you have related to women in the hardness of your heart, and by that mystery (Rev. 17:5) have women and mankind multiplied evils upon the Earth (Jude 4, 6, 13).
16:5 Say to them: Never therefore shall you obtain peace.
17:1 They raised me up into a certain place, where there was the appearance of a burning fire; and when they pleased they assumed the likeness of men.
17:2 They carried me to a lofty spot, to a mountain, the top of which reached to heaven.
17:3 And I beheld the receptacles of light and of thunder at the extremities of the place, where it was deepest. There was a bow of fire, and arrows in their quiver, a sword of fire (light-sabre), and every species of lightning.
17:4 Then they elevated me to the Water of Life, which spoke, and to a fire in the West, which received all the setting of the Sun. I came to a river of fire, which flowed like water, and emptied itself into the great sea westwards.
17:5 I saw every large river, until I arrived at the great darkness. I went to where all flesh migrate; and beheld the “mountains” of the gloom which constitutes “Winter”, and the place from which issues the water in every abyss.
17:6 I saw also the mouths of all the rivers in the world, and the mouths of the deep.
18:1 I then surveyed the receptacles of all the winds, perceiving that in them were the ornaments of the whole creation, and to preserve the foundation of the Earth.
18:2 I surveyed the Stone which supports the corners of the Earth (Corner-Stone – Matt. 21:42).
18:3 I also beheld the four winds, which bear up the Earth, and the firmament of heaven.
18:4 And I beheld the winds occupying the height of heaven.
18:5 Arising in the midst of heaven and of Earth, and constituting the pillars of heaven.
18:6 I saw the winds which turn the sky, which cause the orb of the sun and of all the stars to set; and over the Earth I saw the winds which support the clouds.
18:7 I saw the path of the angels.
18:8 I perceived at the extremity of the Earth the firmament of heaven above it. Then I passed on towards the South;
18:9 Where burnt, both by day and night, six mountains formed of glorious stones; three towards the East, and three towards the South.
18:10 Those which were towards the East were of a variegated stone; one of which was of margarite, and another of antimony. Those towards the South were of a red stone. The middle one reached to heaven like the Throne of God; a throne composed of alabaster, the top of which was of sapphire. I saw, too, a blazing fire which was over all of the mountains.
18:11 And there I saw a place on the other side of an extended territory, where waters were collected.
18:12 I likewise beheld terrestrial fountains, deep in the fiery columns of heaven.
18:13 And in the columns of heaven I beheld fires, which descended without number, but neither on high, nor in the deep. Over these fountains also I perceived a place which had neither the firmament of heaven above it, nor the solid ground underneath it; neither was there water above it, nor any thing on wing; but the spot was desolate.
18:14 And there I beheld seven stars, like great blazing mountains, and like spirits entreating me.
18:15 Then the angel said: This place, until the consummation of heaven and Earth will be the PRISON for the stars, and the host of heaven (Rev. 12:7-9).
18:16 The stars (Beings of light – Rev. 9:1) which roll over fire are those which transgressed the Commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season. Therefore was He offended with them, and bound them, until the period of the consummation of their crimes in the secret year (Matt. 24:36; Sura 7:187).
19:1 Then Uriel said: Here the angels, who cohabited with women, appointed their leaders;
19:2 And being numerous in appearance made men profane, and caused them to err; so that they sacrificed to devils like as to gods. For in the great day there shall be a Judgement with which they shall be judged, until they are consumed; and their wives also shall be judged, who led astray the angels of heaven that they might salute them (Eze. 13:18-22; 2 Pet. 2:4-5).
19:3 And I, Enoch, I alone saw the likeness of the end of all things. Nor did any human+Being see it as I saw it.
20:1 These are the names of the angels who watch.
20:2 Uriel, one of the holy angels, he it is who is over clamour and terror.
20:3 Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men (ch. 40:9).
20:4 Raguel, one of the holy angels, who inflicts punishment on the world and the luminaries.
20:5 Michael, one of the holy angels, who presiding over human virtue, commands the nations (Dan. 12:1; Sura 2:98).
20:6 Sarakiel, one of the holy angels, who presides over the spirits of the children of men that transgress.
20:7 Gabriel, one of the holy angels (Luke 1:19), who is over Ikisat, over Paradise (the place “para-dice” – “in order to be told”: all they did), and over the cherubim.
21:1 Then I made a circuit to a place in which nothing was completed.
21:2 And there I beheld neither the tremendous workmanship of an exalted heaven, nor of an established Earth, but a desolate spot, prepared and terrifying.
21:3 There, too, I beheld seven stars (Beings of light – Rev. 9:1) of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed: For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered: Enoch, why dost thou ask; why reason with thyself, and anxiously inquire? These are those of the stars (Rev. 12:4) who have transgressed the Commandment of the Most High God (Rev. 1:20); and are here bound, until the infinite number of the days of their punishment for their crimes be completed.
21:4 From there I afterwards passed on to another terrifying place;
21:5 Where I beheld the operation of a great fire blazing and glittering, in the midst of which there was a division. Columns of fire struggled together to the end of the abyss, and deep was their descent. But neither its measurement nor magnitude was I able to discover; neither could I perceive its origin. Then I exclaimed: How terrible is this place, and how difficult to explore!
21:6 Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, answered and said: Enoch, why art thou alarmed and amazed at this terrifying place, at the sight of this place of suffering? This, he said, is the prison of the angels; and here are they kept forever.
22:1 From there I proceeded to another spot, where I saw on the West a great and lofty mountain, a strong rock, and four delightful places.
22:2 Internally it was deep, capacious, and very smooth; as smooth as if it had been rolled over; it was both deep and dark to behold.
22:3 Then Raphael, one of the holy angels who were with me, answered and said: These are the delightful places where the spirits, the souls of the dead, will be collected; for them they were formed; and here will be collected all the souls of the sons of men (John 5:28-29).
22:4 These places, in which they dwell, shall they occupy in advance of the Day of Judgement, and until their appointed time.
22:5 Their appointed time will be far off, even until the great Judgement. And I saw the spirits of the sons of men who were dead, and their voices reached to heaven, while they were accusing (Rev. 6:9-10).
22:6 Then I inquired of Raphael, an angel who was with me, and said: Whose spirit is that, the voice of which reaches to heaven, and accuses?
22:7 He answered, saying: This is the spirit of Abel (the Breath of Life), who was slain by Cain (Possessions) his brother; and he will accuse him, until his (Cain’s – Canaanites – Ex. 15:15) seed (materialists) be destroyed from the face of the Earth (Gen. 4:10; Rev. 6:9-10);
22:8 Until Cain’s (Possessions’) seed perish from the seed of the human race.
22:9 At that time therefore I inquired respecting him, and respecting the general Judgement, saying: Why is one separated from another? He answered: Three separations have been made between the spirits of the dead, and thus have the spirits of the righteous been separated.
22:10 Namely by a chasm, by water, and by light above it.
22:11 And in the same way likewise are sinners separated when they die, and are buried in the earth; Judgement not overtaking them in their lifetime.
22:12 Here their souls are separated. Moreover, abundant is their suffering until The Time of The Great Judgement, The Castigation, and The Torment of those who eternally curse, whose souls (Beings) are punished and bounded there forever.
22:13 And thus has it been from the beginning of the world. Thus has there existed a separation between the souls (Beings) of those who utter complaints, and of those who watch for their destruction, to slaughter them in the Day of Sinners.
22:14 Thus has it been made for the souls of unrighteous men, and of sinners; of those who have completed crime, and associated with the disrespectful, whom they resemble. Their souls shall not be annihilated in the Day of Judgement, neither shall they arise from this place. Then I blessed God,
22:15 And said: Blessed be my Lord, the Lord of Glory and of Righteousness, Who reigns over ALL for ever and for ever.
23:1 From there I went to another place, towards the West, unto the extremities of the Earth.
23:2 Where I beheld a fire blazing and running along without cessation, which did not intermit its course either by day or by night, but continued always the same.
23:3 I inquired, saying: What is this, which never ceases?
23:4 Then Raguel, one of the holy angels who were with me, answered,
23:5 And said: This blazing fire, which thou beholdest running towards the West, is that of all the luminaries of heaven.
24:1 I went from there to another place, and saw a mountain of fire flashing both by day and night. I proceeded toward it; and perceived seven splendid mountains, which were all different from each other.
24:2 Their stones are brilliant and beautiful; all were brilliant and splendid to behold; and beautiful was their surface. Three mountains were toward the East, and strengthened by being placed one upon another; and three were towards the South, strengthened in a similar manner. There were likewise deep valleys, which did not approach each other. And the seventh mountain was in the midst of them. In length they all resembled the seat of a throne, and odouriferous trees surrounded them.
24:3 Among these there was a tree of an unceasing smell; not of all the fragrant trees of those that were in Eden was there one which smelt like this. Its leaf, its flower, and its bark never withered, and its fruit was beautiful.
24:4 Its fruit resembled the cluster of the palm. I exclaimed: Behold! this tree is goodly in aspect, pleasing in its leaf and the sight of its fruit is delightful to the eye. Then Michael, one of the holy and glorious angels who were with me, and who presided over them (Dan. 10:21; Rev. 5:5), answered,
24:5 And said: Enoch, why dost thou inquire respecting the odour of this tree?
24:6 Why art thou inquisitive to know it?
24:7 Then I, Enoch, replied to him, and said: Concerning everything I am desirous of instruction, but particularly concerning this tree.
24:8 He answered me, saying: That mountain that thou beholdest, the extent of whose head resembles the Seat of the Lord, will be the seat on which shall sit the holy and great Lord of Glory, the Everlasting King (2 Esd. 13:6), when He shall come and descend to visit the Earth with goodness. (Dan. 7:13-14; Luke 1:32-33).
24:9 And that tree of an agreeable smell, not one of flesh, there shall be no power to touch, until the period of The Great Judgement. When all shall be punished and consumed for ever, this shall be bestowed on the righteous and humble. The fruit of this tree shall be given to the Elect. For, towards the North, Life shall be planted in the Holy Place, towards the habitation of the Everlasting King.
24:10 Then shall they greatly rejoice and delight in the Holy One. The sweet odour shall enter into their bones; and they shall live a long life on the Earth (1000 years – Rev. 20:4), as thy forefathers have lived; neither in their days shall sorrow, distress, trouble, and punishment afflict them.
24:11 And I blessed the Lord of Glory, the Everlasting King, because He has prepared this tree (of Life) for the Elect, formed it, and declared that He would give it to them (Rev. 22:2).
25:1 From there I proceeded to the middle of the Earth, and beheld a happy and fertile spot, which contained branches continually sprouting from the trees that were planted in it. There I saw a holy mountain, and underneath it water on the eastern side, which flowed towards the South. I saw also on the East another mountain as high as that; and between them there were deep, but not wide valleys.
25:2 Water ran towards the mountain to the West of this; and underneath there was likewise another mountain.
25:3 There was a valley, but not a wide one, below it; and in the midst of them were other deep and dry valleys towards the extremity of the three. All these valleys, which were deep, but not wide, consisted of a strong rock, with a tree which was planted in them. And I wondered at the rock and at the valleys, being extremely surprised.

 

 

Click here to continue reading the complete Book of Enoch

 

Click here to read the complete Book of Enoch from the beginning

 

The Book of Enoch is included in the King of kings’ Bible, which can be accessed online for free by clicking on the link below:

 

King of kings’ Bible

 

Peace be upon You.

 



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    • Anonymous

      Enoch is not part of Bible canon, because it is absolutely ridiculous in places, includes a hodgepodge of mythological nonsense, some of which scientific realities in very nature prove untrue, to stuff like giants over 300 feet tall. Of course, you may think “Jack and the Beanstalk” belongs in the Bible, being a beforeitsnews “reporter”, though this has no bearing on or relationship to sound theology and truth. Now, nobody’s saying your article doesn’t very much belong with the “Spirituality” stuff here, albeit whatever on earth sort of spiritual this could possibly be.

      Incidentally, if you think people are interested in you copying and pasting entire volumes, you could consider improving your article by using Bible scripture, but, then again, that would actually be spiritual. Never mind.

      • magusincognito

        Get a load of you people telling others that a writing which contains spiritual content(s) is no good because the Vatican does not approve. The first ones to start keeping written records came from India. To throw out their collections is not only unkind- it’s stupid. Care to tell us how the Hindu story of Manu differs from Noah? If they wrote it down firstly, who copied from whom? Oh, but the Vatican says…

        And if one is unaware of this stuff, one probably has no idea how to read an apocryphal book? In which case, one probably have no idea that the Book of Revelation is about the Christian Initiation. Care to tell us about it? (This implies that one understands the science of Initiation.) Oh, but the Vatican says…

        What does Enochian mean and what does that imply (in regards to the faculties one must have evolved to qualify for working with the allegory)? If one cannot answer that question in its fullest, one has no business interpreting and calling out others on topic.

        Is the most damaging form of atheism rejection of God or the disfiguring of Deity via limited imagination and flawed intellect?

      • chefjim

        This “King of Kings bible” or whatever it is includes the Koran????

        • Williams

          Yes it does. But before you let that which the various organised religions and controlled media (both of them serve Satan) has lead everyone to believe, prevent you from reading it for yourself, first consider the following:

          “The Koran that is promoted and distributed by the Meccans and which has caused countless wars between christians and moslems (because of its corrupted message about Jesus) and millions of deaths over hundreds of years is NOT the original version of the Koran that was given to Mohammed Mustafa by Gabriel in A.D. 640.

          The one that you can read an extract from by clicking below IS the ORIGINAL version, in English, and it is in PERFECT harmony with The king James’ Bible and is in fact the third part of the Bible and was always intended by God to be so.”

          Extract from :- http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

          • BEEF SUPREME

            I see you’ve gotten wise to a fatal flaw of the Koran. Or at least you think you have. An added parenthetical insertion only papers over the terminal blood loss – it does nothing to remedy an insurmountable problem beyond cosmetic treatment.

            Christ died. If He died not, then we are without a Savior. If He died not, then the entire Bible is FALSE. If He died not, then we have no hope.

            That is what the diabolical Koran truly seeks to attack: It is the believer’s faith in Christ’s Sacrifice – in the priceless Blood of our King – that the Koran would do violence to.

            Here is vanity upon vanity:

            4:157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”; – but they killed Christ not, nor crucified Christ, but so it was made to appear to them…

            And the LATE insertion:

            (as they crucified the human body called Jesus, that Christ the spirit-being used)

            The text resumes:

            …and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) Knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed Christ not…

            This is utter nonsense, of course. The insertion one lie upon a heap of lies and the authors of this LATE addition to the text have utterly failed to comprehend the momentous and indispensable FACT of the Sacrificed and Resurrected KING.

            For a list of the other translations of this diabolical verse, see:

            http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=157

            The Koran has NOTHING to do with Scripture and has NO PART in the Word of God. It never has and it never will. Not in ANY of its iterations or variations.

            The Koran is infernal.

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme, please read “The Way home or face The Fire” – By JAH.

              For any who would like to investigate this topic further for themselves, an extract of the True Koran in English can be read at the following link:

              http://jahtruth.net/koex1.htm

            • BEEF SUPREME

              Williams,

              I am very familiar with your website. I explored it in great depth several years ago.

              You ERR significantly when you place any stock whatsoever in the Koran. The Koran is exactly what I accused it of being in my above post.

              The Word of God is complete. There is NOTHING to be added to it and there is NOTHING to be subtracted from it. Islam stipulates that Jesus is not our Savior. The Most High Himself has said otherwise. The Scriptures are God’s Word and stand alone:

              2 Timothy 3:15

              And that from a child thou hast KNOWN the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto SALVATION through FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

              That was written LONG before Mohammed was born. Mohammed has no part in any of the Word, friend. Of that I am absolutely certain. And I am certain because I believe what GOD has written.

              Beware.

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme:

              2 Timothy 3:15
              And that from a child thou hast KNOWN the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto SALVATION through FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

              The Holy Scriptures being referred to in this verse, is of course meaning the Old Covenant/Testament – The Torah, or in English: The Law.

              It could not have meant the New Testament, because the New Testament had at that time not yet been written.

              This is the whole point. All throughout Scripture God tells us, over and over again, that we have to return to keeping His Law in the Torah.
              That is what Jesus told us to do in the New Covenant.
              That is also what the Koran tells the reader to do. The Koran tells the reader to refer back to The Torah, and to keep God’s Law:

              Did YOU know that the Koran COMMANDS its readers to read the Bible and keep The Covenant in the Torah? However, they do not do so because the Meccans have told them that the True Bible and Torah no longer exists, which of course is a LIE and God Himself says so in the Koran (Sura 32:23*). The king James Authorised Version Bible is the TRUE Bible.

              * Koran Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

              http://jahtruth.net/bibproof.htm

            • BEEF SUPREME

              Williams wrote:

              “The Holy Scriptures being referred to in this verse (2 Timothy 3:16) , is of course meaning the Old Covenant/Testament – The Torah, or in English: The Law.”

              FALSE.

              Thus sayeth the Apostle Paul:

              2 Timothy 3:16

              ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…

              (Paul did not say SOME Scripture. He said ALL.)

              Thus sayeth the Apostle Peter, about the Apostle Paul’s writings:

              2 Peter 3:16

              As also in all his (Paul’s) epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, unto their own destruction.

              Thus, Paul’s Epistles ARE Scripture.

              “It could not have meant the New Testament, because the New Testament had at that time not yet been written.”

              That is an assumption on your part. You place restrictions on God and His Word. I place no such restrictions. The Spirit moved Paul to write exactly as he wrote. THAT is why Paul’s Epistles are Scripture.

              “All throughout Scripture God tells us, over and over again, that we have to return to keeping His Law in the Torah.”

              I could not agree with you more on that point.

              “That is what Jesus told us to do in the New Covenant.”

              Again, on this we agree.

              “That is also what the Koran tells the reader to do.”

              The Koran speaks with a forked tongue. There are myriad contradictions in the Koran. In the Scriptures there are NO contradictions. But most importantly, the Koran DENIES the deity of Messiah and it DENIES that MESSIAH DIED as a substitutionary atonement Sacrifice for the sins of Adam-kind.

              “The Koran tells the reader to refer back to The Torah, and to keep God’s Law…”

              This much is true. And this is a point I bring to the attention of Muslims as often as I am able.

              “Did YOU know that the Koran COMMANDS its readers to read the Bible and keep The Covenant in the Torah?”

              Yes, I am aware.

              “However, they do not do so because the Meccans have told them that the True Bible and Torah no longer exists, which of course is a LIE and God Himself says so in the Koran (Sura 32:23*).”

              The Imam’s argument that Scripture has been irreparably altered from its original state, is indeed demonstrably false.

              “The king James Authorised Version Bible is the TRUE Bible.”

              The King James Version is a decent TRANSLATION of the original Scriptures. And while the KJV is my go-to Bible, there are NUMEROUS translational errors in the King James and this fact is easily proven. There is NO SUCH THING as an infallible or perfectly ‘TRUE’ translation of the Word of God. It doesn’t exist, friend. And God never said it would exist. Through diligent study we can (fairly easily) compensate for the errors which have crept into the translations, and even into the extant Manuscripts. The Word of God HAS been preserved; but it does NOT exist in any single Manuscript or translation.

              These are demonstrable facts, Williams.

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme:

              I did not say that the New Covenant/Testament is not Scripture, but was striving to point out that what you said previously, does not make logical sense.

              “The second [epistle] unto Timotheus, ordained the first overseer of the community of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.”

              The point being made, was that AT THE TIME that the epistle (epistle = letter) of 2 Timothy was being written down (which is now accepted as Scripture), they were obviously referring to the Old Covenant Scriptures in the epistle/letter, not the New Covenant/Testament as we have it today, because it had not yet been completed at that time – they were, after all, in the process of helping to write it – including the verse you quoted from 2 Timothy.

              Therefore, the argument that (what you consider to be the complete) Scripture is complete and therefore, nothing can be added to it and that which came after the Old and New Covenants (i.e. The True Koran) therefore cannot be Scripture, is not a logical argument.

              This is proven by the fact, that what was being writing at the time (2 Timothy), became accepted as Scripture later on and was then added to The Bible, added to what was considered to be Scripture before that time (i.e. The Old Covenant).

              It is Scripture, because (when correctly interpreted) it is in perfect harmony with that which came before it, just as it is the case with the TRUE Koran, which is also in perfect harmony with ALL the Scripture that came before it.

              I hope that you will be able to see this.

              This is not meant to have an argument, and I’m glad that we can agree on those later points, because that is the real issue.

              The Muslims are supposed to read the Bible, and we do well to also read the TRUE Koran (not the corrupted one promoted by the Meccans) “The Gospel of Unity” – this was supposed to bring all Believers together and bring an end to all of the insane, religious wars.

              Have you read The Way home or face The Fire?
              Have you then followed that up by reading The King of kings’ Bible including the TRUE Koran?

              Indeed, as Peter correctly stated, ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

              ALL SCRIPTURE which includes God’s True Koran and “The Way home or face The Fire” – By JAH, which is “The Little Book” referred to by Christ, in Revelation 10.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “The point being made, was that AT THE TIME that the epistle (epistle = letter) of 2 Timothy was being written down (which is now accepted as Scripture), they were obviously referring to the Old Covenant Scriptures in the epistle/letter, not the New Covenant/Testament as we have it today, because it had not yet been completed at that time – they were, after all, in the process of helping to write it – including the verse you quoted from 2 Timothy.”

              That is an ASSUMPTION. Neither you nor I know whether the Gospels or the Epistles from other Apostles were in circulation amongst the brethren at the time 2 Timothy was written. All we can do is formulate a BEST GUESS opinion based on a timeline for the other writings, an opinion cobbled together by the opinions of ‘experts.’ PERHAPS it is true that Paul was referring solely to the Old Testament Scriptures in 2 Timothy. But perhaps Paul included more than just the OT because Paul knew that certain work authored by inspired writers was indeed available to the brethren at that time and was indeed Scripture. You are challenging my logic Williams, but you are the one speculating and basing your conclusions on assumptions.

              “Therefore, the argument that (what you consider to be the complete) Scripture is complete and therefore, nothing can be added to it and that which came after the Old and New Covenants (i.e. The True Koran) therefore cannot be Scripture, is not a logical argument.”

              Forget your baseless charges about my faulty logic. Your charges are moot and they are utterly irrelevant. I am not the one who wrote THIS:

              But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

              I am not the one who wrote THIS:

              And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

              ANYTHING which came after that, and seeks to UNDERMINE the efficacy of Messiah’s Blood Sacrifice – which Sacrifice has been preached to us by Paul and by the other Apostles – is ANATHAMA. Moreover, he who brings such a message is accursed. THAT is what the Apostle said, Williams. And that is why you should be more prudent with your message than you are being. I don’t doubt you see in the Koran the things you were meant to see; no doubt there is a semblance of holiness in the Koran. But the same thing can be said of the Talmuds. You are not seeing everything that’s there. I ask you questions in a post below – questions for which I KNOW you will not give an answer. That is the very heart of this matter. And the problem is yours. I seek to highlight that problem so that you might address it, or be shown a willing AVOIDER of the problem because you would rather cling to another gospel than that which we have received.

              “This is proven by the fact, that what was being writing at the time (2 Timothy), became accepted as Scripture later on and was then added to The Bible, added to what was considered to be Scripture before that time (i.e. The Old Covenant).”

              No proclamation had yet been made that the Word of God was complete. Paul made such a proclamation. Messiah made such a proclamation. There is nothing new coming after. If the Koran IN ANY WAY contradicts the Scriptures, then the Koran needs to be discarded as nothing worth. Even you admit the Koran came after. And if you know the Scriptures as you should, you would know that NOTHING will change in God’s Word. So either a later writing will be in PERFECT harmony with the written Word, or it is SOME OTHER MESSAGE from SOME OTHER MESSENGER. And the Koran is most assuredly NOT in harmony with the Word of God. It isn’t now, it wasn’t then – not your King of Kings version, not any version – and it never will be. I am willing to prove this to you and to everyone reading this exchange. The proof will be in your answer or refusal to answer the questions asked of you.

              “It is Scripture, because (when correctly interpreted) it is in perfect harmony with that which came before it, just as it is the case with the TRUE Koran, which is also in perfect harmony with ALL the Scripture that came before it.”

              If that is true, then you will have NO PROBLEM AT ALL answering the questions I know you will never answer. See below.

              “I hope that you will be able to see this.”

              Show me by your answer. And don’t doubt there are plenty of other witnesses as interested in your response to my questions as I am. Eyes on you, Williams.

              “Have you read The Way home or face The Fire?”

              I have.

              “Have you then followed that up by reading The King of kings’ Bible including the TRUE Koran?”

              I have not. What I did do was cross-examine the very specific verses in your translation which prove the Koran is a counterfeit. I have seen the ATTEMPTS your translation makes at dealing with intractable problems. They are vain attempts. I have already quoted the main example.

              “ALL SCRIPTURE which includes God’s True Koran and “The Way home or face The Fire” – By JAH, which is “The Little Book” referred to by Christ, in Revelation 10.”

              Nonsense. JAH is NO KIND OF INSPIRED author. And you are ‘Jah’ aren’t you? You post here under numerous accounts with myriad names in order to advertise this other ‘gospel’ you have written. Tell me if I’m wrong, Williams. Or can we add this to the list of questions you’ll never answer?

              Vanity, Williams. That’s the Koran. And that’s anything anyone else ever wrote which is not in perfect accord with the Word of God. And perfect accord is very easy to put to the test.

            • destinedtoberevealed

              well said

              But we are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood and a holy nation. We are a peculiar people; that we should show forth the praises of him who has called us out of darkness into his marvelous light. In time past we were not a people, but now we are the people of God, which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10).

              Christianity today suffers from an identity crisis. Most who claim to be Christian talk the talk, but fail to truly walk with Christ Jesus in newness of Spirit. Christianity should not be just another religion.

              James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

              Religion is simply man’s attempt to find or create a god or belief system that satisfies their selfish desires. True Christianity is God’s offer to us, unto transformation and ultimately Eternal Salvation.

              Mic 7:7 Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.

              Jesus Christ Is The Shepherd And Overseer Of Our Souls, He is also the light of the world and has called us out of darkness into his marvelous light.

              OUT OF DARKNESS INTO HIS MARVELOUS LIGHT

              Those that follow Him in Spirit and in Truth, shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life (1 Peter 2:25; John 8:12; John 4:23).

              2 Timothy 2:15-16 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

              The truths contained in the Word of God are spiritually discerned, they are revealed to the Faithful follower by the Holy Spirit, enabling us to hear, understand and obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (Heb 5:9; 2 Thes 1:5-8).

              Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

          • Williams

            Beef Supreme, Ok. Since you have asked, I will tell you. You are wrong.

            And you keep claiming repeatedly, that I would never answer your questions, eg:

            “If that is true, then you will have NO PROBLEM AT ALL answering the questions I know you will never answer.”

            “Tell me if I’m wrong, Williams. Or can we add this to the list of questions you’ll never answer?”

            Ok, Beef Supreme, I will tell you, while “everybody is watching”. You are wrong.

            I had no problem answered your questions, even though I think that you have been extremely rude, and still I have no problem answering your third question either:

            No, Beef Supreme, I am not JAH.

            You have been presented with Truth, but sadly it appears you have chosen to reject it. You even CLAIM to have already read “The Way home or face The Fire”.

            But then again, you seem to like making false accusations and claims, such as that I would “never” answer your questions. Sadly, I can see no point in continuing this conversation any further. You have been presented with the Truth – what you do with it is YOUR choice and responsibility.

            For the benefit of others, please scroll down to be able to read “They Killed Christ Not”.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              Beef Supreme, Ok. Since you have asked, I will tell you. You are wrong.

              “And you keep claiming repeatedly, that I would never answer your questions…”

              Yes, Williams – you have indeed answered questions I thought you would not answer. That means to me you are more settled in your doctrine than I had previously thought. I figured you for a runner – which are in no short supply around here; refusing to answer difficult questions. My apologies for assuming and for falsely charging you with evasion even before you had evaded anything.

              “Ok, Beef Supreme, I will tell you, while “everybody is watching”. You are wrong.”

              I am wrong. I take that to mean you are not Jah, the author of ‘The Way Home…’ and the commentator who developed the King of Kings version of the Koran. If you give me your word that you are not him, then so be it. I have no reason to doubt you. It’s another question I thought you would evade. And you’ll no doubt notice below that I persisted in speaking to you as if you were Mr. Jah. If it is as you say it is, then I owe you yet another apology.

              “I had no problem answered your questions, even though I think that you have been extremely rude…”

              My rudeness is only a tactic, friend. I use an abrasive tone to keep an opponent in dialogue off a balanced stance while I pursue my line of questioning. But now, as you have indeed answered the questions put to you, I have no reason to continue addressing you with a harassing tone.

              “You have been presented with Truth, but sadly it appears you have chosen to reject it. You even CLAIM to have already read “The Way home or face The Fire”.”

              I did read it. Will there be a test? I spent a good deal of time examining the theories set forth by Mr. Jah.

              “For the benefit of others, please scroll down to be able to read “They Killed Christ Not”.”

              Don’t worry. They will.

    • Redeemer

      Pat Robertson Says Gays ‘Want To Come Out And Stick It To The Christians’

      /christian-news/2015/11/pat-robertson-says-gays-want-to-come-out-and-stick-it-to-the-christians-2520074.html

    • Pix

      “This long hidden “Book of Enoch and Noah”, which originally was part of the Holy Bible”

      The book of Enoch has never been a part of the Bible, it originates from Ethiopia, Africa, and is part of their canon and only their canon.

      • HypothesisFree

        “The Book of Enoch was considered as Scripture in the Epistle of Barnabas (16:4) and by many of the early Church Fathers, such as Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus and Tertullian, who wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ. However, later Fathers denied the canonicity of the book, and some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work.
        By the 4th century, the Book of Enoch was mostly excluded from Christian canons, and it is now regarded as scripture by only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church.”
        - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

        Also, “a letter written by Clement, the third bishop of Rome, was considered as scripture for nearly two hundred years, as were seven letters written by Ignatius, who was the bishop of Antioch early in the second century. Also, there was a book called The Shepherd of Hermas and another called The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles that were also approved as scripture by the Church.”
        - http://www.14lds.com/judas.htm

        [Note: to my knowledge, there is no known time in history where all Bibles/Canons within Christianity contained the same books within them.]

        • Anonymous

          “some even considered the letter of Jude uncanonical because it refers to an “apocryphal” work.”

          No, Jude references a statement of prophecy by Enoch, all scripture under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For the Lord to quote a prophecy given to Enoch in no way endorses a book by Enoch. This argument is specious, a non-starter, which must rely on a very worldly presumption that the origins of scripture had to be some previous scripture known to man, as opposed to God quoting Enoch in Jude. All Christians believe scripture is the word of God, not man, in the first place. The chunks of the book of Enoch clearly bogus mean that, at best, it’s a book much adulterated with myths that are not inspired, therefore the book not reliable as being the word of God.

          • HypothesisFree

            I do not believe your argument holds water, as I have explained in a prior article I wrote. Below are a couple of applicable excerpts, and at the end is a link to my full article:

            … a note to the purists regarding the concept that only the original Bible writings are inerrant. If God leaves the Bible scholars no intellectually honest way to bring the best of our remnants back to inerrancy, then it effectively matters not whether the original was errant, or if only the best of what we have is errant. In either case the Bible effectively does not live up to its own standard that God’s “way [or method of inspiring scripture] is perfect”. So in either case we can say that what we effectively have is an errant Bible.

            … the Bible declares:

            - “As for God, his way [or method of inspiring scripture] is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless….” (Psalm 18:30)

            - “All scripture is given by inspiration of God.” (2 Timothy 3:16)

            - “… I [God] will put my words in his [the prophet's] mouth” (Deuteronomy 18:18)

            If this is true, then what has been inspired and later recognized as scripture (through God’s perfect word for word way of inspiring scripture) cannot change or arbitrarily be thrown out (not even under the pretext that it was not inspired), for any Christian canon, because we have been assured right in the Bible itself that all officially recognized Christian scripture was already perfect to begin with. The Bible also proclaims that Gods words will not pass away (Mark 13:31).

            Granted, the Bible also states in Deuteronomy that there will be false prophets who will claim to speak inspired words of God. However, to be clear, many ‘inspired words of God’ (spoken by prophets) are not considered to be ‘Bible scripture’ – these are not one and the same. So it would be patently false to conclude that the Bible is saying here that alleged inspired words of false prophets would EVER be included in any Christian Bible/canon.

            On the other hand, imagine the Bible credibility issues that would be created if Christians were to argue, that words of false prophets would continually attempt to attack, corrupt, or even destroy the Bible, and that at times these blasphemy’s would become part of Bible scripture. And all during this process the Bible would be preached as ‘the perfect word of God’?

            So it seems that no matter how we slice it, historically, there was nothing at all “perfect” about the process of determining for a given time period, what is officially recognized as scripture/truth, and what is not. It has been a wishy washy, arbitrary, contradictory process which can by no stretch of the imagination be considered perfect. In consideration of this it seems anomalous that Christianity claims that the Bible has been perfectly inspired (like what Bible… and like what time period are they talking about? Even in modern times there is not one singularly agreed upon Bible canon throughout all of Christianity) or that God is perfect. If God is perfect, he could, should, and in all likelihood, out of necessity in order for Christians to be able to claim that the Bible is consistent and trustworthy, and true, WOULD have seen to it that there were no attempts to ever alter (or take away from) his so called perfect scripture. Are we not assured, as argued above, that this would never happen?

            Take note also how in modern day Christian Bibles, the book of Jude 1:14 not only quotes (using very similar wordings) from the Book of 1 Enoch, but it also identifies Enoch as a prophet, thereby delineating him as a person who had inspired words of God to share with the public. Fragments of the Book of Enoch found among the Dead Sea scrolls witness to its availability in the Holy land in apostolic times.

            So a question to keep in the back of your mind as you continue reading this article is, how can anyone really know what is inspired and what is not within the context of Christianity, even for whichever Bible YOU may consider to be truth?

            The quotes above are from my article “Amazing Little Known Facts – Proving How You Have Been Kept In The Dark”
            - http://archive.dailypaul.com/241312

            • Anonymous

              “So a question to keep in the back of your mind as you continue reading this article is, how can anyone really know what is inspired and what is not within the context of Christianity, even for whichever Bible YOU may consider to be truth?”

              Not in the back of my mind. The answer to that for you to keep in mind:

              John 16

              7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
              8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
              9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
              10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
              11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
              12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
              13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

              Spirit filled saints down the ages spiritually discern the truth. It’s called having eyes that see and ears that hear. God is quite capable to ensure we have a reliable Bible, the Creator of the universe also perhaps able to write a reliable book and keep the garbage out, you suppose?

              If you don’t believe the Lord gave you a reliable Bible, that the Lord would not, naturally, preserve His word, that we may know where to find truth we are even commanded to obey, perhaps you need to first look into getting saved, if you don’t trust your God can even write a book, if you can’t read the apocrypha and see why it’s not in the Bible. Where is the Holy Spirit that’s leading you to the truth?

              The fact is, I’ve studied the entire Old and New Testament apocrypha, and found little of it worth reading twice, it so obviously not inspired and reliable. Why can’t you see this? It’s a question worth asking yourself. I’d wonder why I have such doubts, how it is your God isn’t even a reliable author, your God so impotent, it would seem, a sort of this view of God:

              2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

              I wouldn’t believe in a God who can’t write a reliable, as if, user’s manual, tells me I’m responsible for truth, without a place to find His truth, His word. If I saw the Bible as I can see the apocrypha, maybe I’d be a Buddhist. Thanks be to God those 66 books are, one and all, reliable.

              You can keep the rest, spend your time foraging through garbage, to try and find something that maybe shouldn’t have been thrown out. To me, that’s a waste of time, when there’s a Bible I can go to, without rotting garbage to pick through.

            • HypothesisFree

              Also, in reply to your other comment close to this one (for which I am not presented with a reply choice, so I am replying here)…

              Granted, the Bible claims that one of multiple functions of the Holy Spirit is to help the believer interpret scripture and truth. However, (also from my article):

              1) Also, it is apparently documented that “some early pre-Nicean Christian Church leaders rejected the Trinity. They were closest to the source, which infers that if the principles regarding the Holy Spirit were valid, then they of all people would know if it was a proper way to describe God or not.” -http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/07/reasonable-doubt-about-holy-spirit_13.html

              2) See also “Reasonable Doubt About the Holy Spirit”, a short article which concludes that “Since it seems apparent that the Holy Spirit does not help interpret scripture or give understanding, Reasonable Doubt about the Holy Spirit is justified.”:
              - http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/07/reasonable-doubt-about-holy-spirit_13.html

              3) Many Christians believe that Christianity/Christians have been guided ultimately through the work of a noble “Holy Spirit” for the purpose of evangelism. However, history shows us that Christianity in actuality came into popularity through force, in the form of government/church threat of torture and murder):

              “As we have seen, real systematic persecutions of the early Christians by the authorities happened within a timeframe of only five years in the first three centuries. [However...] When the Church itself rose to power and became an authority, it has been merciless persecuting thousands of people, both non-Christians and Christians alike, more or less constantly, for seventeen hundred years. They have started wars, crusades, the Inquisition, burned people as heretics and witches [naturopathic healers], they’ve [been] killing Jews since the very beginning, slaughtered Indians in the New World, and most of their “martyrs” are lies.” [So apparently the Bible's claim of the workings of a noble God "Holy Spirit" is fallacious, and consequently, so too is the church's concept of the "Holy Trinity"/triune, and "Holy Spirit" prayer.]

              - http://www.bandoli.no/tolerance.htm

              4) “I’m sure there have been and still are quite a few faithful that were wondering what the heck was going wrong while they were being tortured or burned alive by fellow Christians who believed they had the spirit indwelling. The most recent manifestation of this that I know about is the persecution of Children as Witches in Africa.”

              “This is what happens [or has happened] when you [or people in society] base your beliefs on weak evidence and appeal to tradition and appeal to authority. This is what happens when you don’t have firm criteria for good evidence. This is what happens when you don’t think for yourself and weigh the evidence. This is what happens when you put your faith in the supernatural. This is the nature of The Beast.” – [pun intended since apparently before we can successfully learn to treat each other with proper respect, we must also learn how to treat all sentient beings/'beasts'/animals with proper respect].

              - http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2009/01/idq-flaws-relevant-to-holy-spirit.html
              - http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/12/children-are-targets-of-nigerian-witch.html

        • Pix

          “It is not part of the biblical canon as used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel. Most Christian denominations and traditions may accept the Books of Enoch as having some historical or theological interest or significance, but they generally regard the Books of Enoch as non-canonical or non-inspired.[3] It is regarded as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, but not by any other Christian group.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

      • CAPTAIN CHAOS!!

        Pix lied:

        “The book of Enoch has never been a part of the Bible, it originates from Ethiopia, Africa, and is part of their canon and only their canon.”

        I say lied because Pix has been corrected on this point more than once. And citations have been provided.

        Multiple copies of 1 Enoch were discovered, written in HEBREW, among the Qumran Library. Pix knows this to be true, don’t you Pix…

        So why advance such an easily refutable falsehood?

        People are paying attention, even if you’re not.

        • Pix

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

          ““It is not part of the biblical canon as used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel. Most Christian denominations and traditions may accept the Books of Enoch as having some historical or theological interest or significance, but they generally regard the Books of Enoch as non-canonical or non-inspired.[3] It is regarded as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church, but not by any other Christian group.””

          You were saying?

        • Pix

          Whose the liar.

          You: “Multiple copies of 1 Enoch were discovered, written in HEBREW, among the Qumran Library. Pix knows this to be true, don’t you Pix…”

          The truth: “Significantly, the remnants of several almost complete copies of The Book of Enoch in Aramaic were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls”.
          http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss/dss_book_of_giants.htm

          You are the liar.

          :lol:

        • Pix

          “People are paying attention, even if you’re not.”

          That obviously doesn’t include you. You’re not paying the slightest bit of attention, you’re just into slander and lying for your plagiarised Dionysus fiction.

          :lol:

          • BEEF SUPREME

            Right Pix.

            Like you DON’T know multiple copies of Enoch were recovered in Qumran.

            Like you DON’T know there isn’t a single shred of meaningful evidence for you to rest your lies about Dionysus on.

            Sure, Pix. Whatever you say.

            You KNOW the Gospels were not plagiarized and you KNOW you cannot demonstrate otherwise.

            In six years time, I KNOW you’ve learned at least that much.

    • Mike

      Successful deception … keeping you from Heaven … are the stunning lies against Catholic Dogma.
      Lies by a heretic cult … pretending and claiming to be the Catholic Church since 8 December 1965.

      Undeniable proof including photographic > > > http://www.Gods-Catholic-Dogma.com

      Catholic writing of Romans 9:27 >
      “If the number … be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.”

      Catholic writing of Saint James 2:10 >
      “Whosoever shall … offend in one point, is become guilty of all.”

      • magusincognito

        Yeah, everyone is a heretic, except Roman Catholics…because the Vatican says so. And all beings who do not reside on earth are demons because…the Vatican (and variants thereof) says so. And we should all do everything the Vatican says because if we do not, we’re going to get!

        You people are really showing off your Romanism with all of the rules/laws, page numbers etc.. FYI: that’s where it came from. And you’re the same ones who pretended to understand it all for years, as it was read in a language you could not even understand (i.e. Latin), let alone the spiritual content. Armed with your education- set up by the jesuits -which is void of spirit, you pretend to understand all things spiritual via the prism of a materialistic-thinking mind. Note: if you don’t understand that descriptor, look up what happened with the Council of Nicaea in 869. FYI: that makes you materialists, and all materialists are, in fact atheists! Here comes the wave of cognitive dissonance…

    • A Freeman

      The Book of Enoch not only contains the condemnation of both CHURCH and STATE, but also includes specific instructions on HOW TO RECOGNIZE AND CORRECT THE MISTAKES.

      No wonder the powerful and greedy few who run organized religions and governments have worked so hard to keep this information from the masses and protect their LIES of omission and commission.

      Please help spread this truth far and wide. Only the truth can set us free.

      • magusincognito

        Indeed.

        What these people- most of whom are atheists and do not realise it -have done is gone through records without first having any independent knowledge of super-sensible facts. And then they accuse any who possess this knowledge as being controlled by demons.

        And there is no way one can understand spiritual books without an understanding of numerology and astrology/astronomy. If they believe they understand it without these tools, they are simple being intellectually dishonest. FYI: the latter belong to the 7 Liberal Arts!

        In a nutshell, these people are at war with the spirit, as they condemn others for not being so.

    • Ashmine

      The book of Enoch has nothing to do with Enoch or any other godly person. It should be called the book of Satan or the book of the Illuminati, because they are behind it and its associated teachings.

    • hisa

      [TABUSE SYSTEM] is the biggest taboo in the world…

      What is the [TABUSE SYSTEM]? (TABUSE SYSTEM is famous in Japan.)

      ・All of wars are fake.
      ・All of religions are cabal tool.
      ・If I occupy the opponent ideas (or organizations), I can completely control all its matter.Therefore I should occupy all ideas and organizations with farce friction strategically.
      ・Only owning all central banks in the world and the right of controlling the gold price come to the world ruler.

      BBS [田布施システム]
      http://www.onrw.net/worldjapan/14021795929546/

      ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

      3.11 and Fukushima were terrorism attacks by U.S.A , Israel , Korean, Zainichi(Korean in Japan),Tabuse Korean, Vatican(Not only ‘Peter Hans Kolvenbach’, it’s Vatican attack. ) and so on. Our Japanese have evidence, and famous anti-3.11 terrorism journalist ( ‘Benjamin Fulford’ and ‘Richard Koshimizu’ and ‘Izumi’) are terrorist puppets. Zionist likes to occupy their opponent idea strategically.

      ・All of wars are fake.
      Russia and Saudi Arabia ink nuclear energy deal, exchange invites
      http://www.rt.com/news/268198-russia-saudi-nuclear-agreements/
      Why does Russia Government have the strong-tie with former Japanese prime minister Hatoyama(Gnosticism Illuminati) as the most important Japanese? Hatoyama is famous that he links ‘Al-Qaeda’.

      ・All of religions are cabal tool.
      Catholic’s war plots and enslavement history.
      http://www.amazon.co.jp/ウサギたちが渡った断魂橋〈上〉―からゆき・日本人慰安婦の軌跡-山田-盟子/dp/4406023518/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438465167&sr=8-1&keywords=ウサギたちが渡った断魂橋
      Catholic missionaries are the first step for enslavement in Asia and Africa. Then Catholic always maneuvered conflicts by their devotee. All of Religions are inconsistent in saying their favorite word ‘religious liberty’, while They never forgive saying true history of religions what religions have been always related with wars.

      ・‘BIS’ protected ‘TABUSE Korean’(Japanese Emperor….etc) assets during WW2.
      (I have evidences about ‘BIS’ documents)
      No one say about where money comes from for incidents and wars.
      Japan could import oil from Zionist company during WW2 via Nihon Suisan Corp what was owned by Japanese Emperor. Japan did not have oil stock for 4 years war(WW2).

      【Tabuse System】

      (Tabuse System is famous in Japan.)

      Japan has been under Korean colonial rule since ancient time..「Emperor」「Religion」「Money System」「Mafia」…etc. All of these instruments are stronger than visible tyrant system tools for dictators. Ancient Jewish came to Japan and established shrines all over the Japan. Rhetoric of the emperor and religions also came from out-side Japan for non-Japanese origin.

      The West(Rothschild) replaced The Meiji emperor with another Korean, [Japanese National Archives,(1110001)A100317160055, Tanaka Mitsuaki document….etc]Omuro Toranosuke who came from the poor ‘Tabuse’” Korean village in Yamaguchi Prefecture became The Japanese Meiji Emperor for The West. Japanese Prime Minister Abe’s families are also “Tabuse” Koreans. They are xenophobia against Japanese and have their own strong glass ceiling strategies for Japanese enslavement what is like “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” for Jewish. All of Japanese have been under “Tabuse” System for The West since before The WW2, and They have strong ties with the their ancient land of Korean Peninsula.

      WW2 was fake war for Zionists and “Tabuse”Koreans. They like to occupy all of ideas strategically.[Right-Wing vs Left-Wing, Russian side vs U.S.A.side, Nuclear Industries vs Anti-Nuclear ,Political party A vs Political Party B, industrial business vs environmental group ....etc]

      Japanese prime minister Abe’s grandfather is Kishi Nobusuke(He was a Japanese prime minister after WW2.), he committed massacres in China during WW2 as well as Sasagawa( His families are still ruling over all of Japan) and Kodama(He was one of the biggest right-wing Yakuza).They are from Korean National and worked for Rothschild.Japanese Emperor families and North Korea families are same blood and having strong relationship.

      Japanese
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYNxz3XLxvU

    • Miguel

      To even say that the Koran any version is true loses me no it is work of evil spirits and evil men.

      • Williams

        “To even say that the Koran any version is true loses me no it is work of evil spirits and evil men.”

        That is how people have been conditioned to react, by the lies of mainstream media and the lies of organised religions.

        The Koran that is promoted and distributed by the Meccans and which has caused countless wars between christians and moslems (because of its corrupted message about Jesus) and millions of deaths over hundreds of years is NOT the original version of the Koran that was given to Mohammed Mustafa by Gabriel in A.D. 640.

        The one that you can read an extract from by clicking below IS the ORIGINAL version, in English, and it is in PERFECT harmony with The king James’ Bible and is in fact the third part of the Bible and was always intended by God to be so. :- http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “That is how people have been conditioned to react, by the lies of mainstream media and the lies of organised religions.”

          No, Williams. That is how people react after they READ the Koran for themselves, if there is Truth in them. We take up the Koran to examine it AWAY from the proclamations of men and institutions. And we find that the Koran has NO PART in the Written Word.

          You are peddling confusion. You are selling mingled seed. You are attempting to mix the holy with the profane. Whether you are doing so intentionally or out of ignorance makes no difference. The results of your error are identical in either case.

          • Williams

            The TRUE Koran, contained in The King of kings’ Bible, is in PERFECT harmony with all the Scripture that came before it.

            The confusion has arisen because of the Meccans promoting a corrupted and ALTERED version of the Koran, that is NOT in harmony with the rest of Scripture, which they have done for Satan.

            If you were to look for the Harmony in God’s Word, instead of trying to look for [what Satan gets you to falsely perceive as being] conflicting information in it [which is what Satan wants you to think, so that he can keep you and everyone else distracted and fighting and killing each other, ultimately causing Armageddon] then if you have any Truth in you, you should be able to find and “see” it.

            But, if you have already decided and therefore now WANT there to be a conflict, then you won’t be able to see anything else, because Satan will be confusing you into misinterpreting it.

            “If The Opponent is challenged or questioned, it means the Victim’s INVESTMENT and thus his intelligence is being questioned. No-one can accept that, not even to themselves.” – Revolver

            For those who want to see, the Truth is out there:- http://jahtruth.net

            But there are NONE so blind, as those who REFUSE to see.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “The TRUE Koran, contained in The King of kings’ Bible, is in PERFECT harmony with all the Scripture that came before it.”

              Then you yourself DENY both the deity of Messiah and you deny His Sacrifice for Adam-kind. You cannot hold both of these Books as being in harmony with each other. The Koran (even your King of Kings version of it) would LAY THE AXE to the very purpose of the Scriptures. That purpose is the Messiah’s Sacrifice and our belief and faith in the substitutionary atonement of that Sacrifice. If Messiah did not die – as even YOUR version of the Koran says that He did not – then there is no Salvation for Adam-kind. Either that, or God is found untrue.

              This is critical, Williams. This is an insurmountable obstacle for the Koran and for those who advocate for the authenticity of the Koran’s message. Ignoring this matter will do nothing but lead you into the wilderness.

              “The confusion has arisen because of the Meccans promoting a corrupted and ALTERED version of the Koran, that is NOT in harmony with the rest of Scripture, which they have done for Satan.”

              Your argument is without merit. I quoted from the version YOU suggested is the ‘correct’ version. The problem I have addressed is most certainly NOT alleviated in the version for which you are an advocate. ‘Meccans’ and Imams have NOTHING to do with this, friend. The verse stands as it is written – and I above quoted from YOUR translation.

              “If you were to look for the Harmony in God’s Word, instead of trying to look for [what Satan gets you to falsely perceive as being] conflicting information in it [which is what Satan wants you to think, so that he can keep you and everyone else distracted and fighting and killing each other, ultimately causing Armageddon] then if you have any Truth in you, you should be able to find and “see” it.”

              I see plainly the words as they are written, Williams. Apparently, you want those words to say something other than they do. NOW THEN. Prepare to be put to the test. I will ask you TWO questions. I DARE YOU to answer the questions. But you will not. I have played this game with you before. Let us see which of us is the deceiver and who is a willing seeker after the Truth.

              Williams, do YOU believe in the deity of Messiah?

              Williams, do YOU believe that Messiah was crucified, died and was resurrected the Third Day?

              Those are the questions I put to you and they are as simple as it gets. Answer if you dare. (You will never answer. You know you cannot and you know WHY you cannot. You know what happens if you do answer, so you will do anything BUT answer.)

              “But, if you have already decided and therefore now WANT there to be a conflict, then you won’t be able to see anything else, because Satan will be confusing you into misinterpreting it.”

              Words have meanings, friend. That’s the problem for people who want to corrupt the words that are written. The Koran says what it says – and your version is no different. I know how to read, Williams. All of your rhetoric about Satan is confusing no one.

              “If The Opponent is challenged or questioned, it means the Victim’s INVESTMENT and thus his intelligence is being questioned. No-one can accept that, not even to themselves.” – Revolver

              YOU have just been questioned, Williams. And you in turn may ask me ANYTHING you like. I will not dodge, juke, jive, shimmy or shiver. I will neither hem nor haw. I will answer you forthwith and candidly.

              Let’s see whether you have anything but idle talk to show for your many years of study. Show us what you’re made of.

              “For those who want to see, the Truth is out there…”

              Let’s put some of that truth on display right HERE.

              “But there are NONE so blind, as those who REFUSE to see.”

              Rhetoric, Williams.

              Your move.

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme,

              No, I have not denied this and yes I do believe that Christ Jesus was crucified, and died for us and rose up again back from the dead on the third day, exactly as it clearly tells us in the Scriptures.

              Christ sacrificed the life of His body – THE “Lamb of God” – Jesus and His blood, and saved the entire nation from death at Passover.
              Read :- http://jahtruth.net/passnot.htm

              What that passage in The Koran is saying, is that they did NOT succeed in killing His Spirit – Christ, like they (humans) had hoped (they thought they could succeed in killing Him, by having Him crucified). You cannot ever kill Christ, He is a Spirit-Being and is Immortal, like The “I AM” God, His Father.

              Scripture clearly tells us, that God is a Spirit, and so is Christ, His Son.

              John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship [Him] with their spirit (being) and in Truth.

              Christ clearly said that He was not from this world:

              John 8:14 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I AM NOT FROM THIS WORLD.

              The most important words in the entire Bible are spoken by Jesus to Nicodemus, which, unless YOU understand them and do it makes it impossible to understand and do any of the teachings.

              What did Christ mean when he said that he is NOT FROM THIS WORLD and that unless YOU are born again from above, of spirit, you will neither SEE nor enter The Kingdom of God, Whom we are clearly informed is also a Spirit? The body that Christ (the spirit-Being) used, which was called Jesus and was born on this planet, obviously was from this world. So what did he mean?

              Jesus explained what he meant, quite clearly, to Nicodemus and it is written in the Gospel of John chapter 3.

              3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except (unless) a man be born from above, he cannot SEE the Kingdom of God.
              3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
              3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (human) and then is born from above as his spirit-”Being” (his REAL self which is NOT human), he can NOT enter into the Kingdom of God (Who is a Spirit-”Being”).
              3:6 That which is born of the flesh is human; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (a spirit-”Being”) – (a human+Being).
              3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST be born again.
              3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell from where it cometh, and where it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
              3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (How can I not be human?)
              3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a teacher of Israel, and knowest not these things? (Matthew chapter 23:8-10).
              3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
              3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly (spirit) things?

              The Lord told Mohammed exactly the same as Jesus had taught, which is NOT to worship Jesus, or Mohammed, or any other Prophet or Angel, and to worship ONLY God (Sura 3:79)(Mark 10:18 & Matt. 5:48), and NOT to be priests (Sura 57:27 & Sura 4:152)(Matt. 5:19 & 23:8).

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “No, I have not denied this and yes I do believe that Christ Jesus was crucified, and died for us and rose up again back from the dead on the third day, exactly as it clearly tells us in the Scriptures.”

              Very good, Williams. I stand partially corrected and wholly surprised. But did you answer my first question? It does not appear that you did.

              Do you believe in the DEITY of Messiah? Do you believe that Messiah is the Word of God made flesh? Do you believe as it states in the opening verse of the Gospel of John that Messiah, the Word of God, IS GOD?

              In the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God.

              “Christ sacrificed the life of His body – THE “Lamb of God” – Jesus and His blood, and saved the entire nation from death at Passover.”

              Truth. But in so doing He saved much more than a nation. Messiah is the Savior of ALL MEN:

              1 Timothy 4:10

              …we trust in the Living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially those that believe.

              “What that passage in The Koran is saying, is that they did NOT succeed in killing His Spirit…”

              This is a gross misunderstanding of what is written in the Koran. But your problem is this: in the verse as it appears in YOUR translation, the wording is still such that it denies Messiah died:

              “…for of a surety they killed Christ not…”

              In the Word it is written:

              Matthew

              Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

              Mark

              And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

              Luke

              And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.

              John

              …and He bowed His head and gave up the ghost.

              The entire verse from your King of Kings translation of the Koran:

              “4:157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”; – but they killed Christ not, nor crucified Christ, but so it was made to appear to them (as they crucified the human body called Jesus, that Christ the spirit-being used) and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) Knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed Christ not…”

              So who is Christ that they ‘killed not’?

              He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I AM?

              And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

              This is what is written. But here is what you say:

              “Christ, like they (humans) had hoped (they thought they could succeed in killing Him, by having Him crucified). You cannot ever kill Christ, He is a Spirit-Being and is Immortal, like The “I AM” God, His Father.”

              Firstly, Messiah the King is not LIKE I AM. Messiah the King IS I AM.

              Before Abraham was, I AM.

              Secondly, we have the fact that your translation is at diametrical odds with the Scriptures. Your parenthetical insertions are nothing but a ham-fisted attempt to rectify the problem. Even so, the words of the Koran remain: ‘of a surety they killed Christ not.’ Now you can improvise and editorialize all you want, which is what the translators of your version have done (are you the translator? I believe you are), but the fact remains that Christ’s death is denied in the plainest possible language.

              Now you here make the common error of confounding death with oblivion. That is merely another assumption you make. Scripture makes it VERY PLAIN that death does not equate with non-existent oblivion, so when you attempt to make the dodge you are making here, your attempt fails. The Word says Messiah would be killed. He would die. He did die. He was killed. Did He ever cease to exist? No. But the Word at no time said He would cease to exist when He died. No one ceases to exist when they die. And your suggestion that the people who crucified Him were attempting to ERASE HIS BEING, is a preposterous assertion which finds NO backing; either in the Scriptures OR in the Koran. You added this new material yourself. But the new material is supported by nothing but your mistaken beliefs about what death is. You misunderstand death, an all too common mistake which comes from a failure to rightly divide the Word of Truth. It comes from a Scripture study lacking in diligence.

              “Scripture clearly tells us, that God is a Spirit, and so is Christ, His Son.”

              But your saying so misses an enormous point.

              “The most important words in the entire Bible are spoken by Jesus to Nicodemus, which, unless YOU understand them and do it makes it impossible to understand and do any of the teachings.”

              According to WHOM? On WHAT do you base this claim? WHERE is your Scriptural backing for this claim? When you make such a bold claim as this which you have made, be prepared to answer questions such as these. Do you imagine yourself privy to some special revelation or other? Get on line. (It’s a long line. Especially here in these BINs.)

              “What did Christ mean when he said that he is NOT FROM THIS WORLD and that unless YOU are born again from above, of spirit, you will neither SEE nor enter The Kingdom of God, Whom we are clearly informed is also a Spirit?”

              He meant that He came here from the Kingdom of Heaven. He meant that we men are born of blood and water; we are born of woman and of beast nature. We must die to ourselves – which is to die to our beast nature; to die to the blood and water – and be reborn of HIS Spirit. And we must be baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

              “The body that Christ (the spirit-Being) used, which was called Jesus and was born on this planet, obviously was from this world. So what did he mean?”

              You are making another invalid assumption. You are erroneously conflating the material body for ENTITY. You are not your body. I am not my body. Messiah was not His Body. WE are HIS Body.

              “The Lord told Mohammed exactly the same as Jesus had taught, which is NOT to worship Jesus…”

              In the Book of Revelation we see THE LAMB receiving the highest form of worship ANYONE can give. THE LAMB is worshipped by men and angels alike (Revelation chapter 5).

              And Jesus receives worship DIRECTLY in the Gospels:

              Matthew 28:9

              And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held Him by the feet, and WORSHIPPED Him.

              John 20:28

              And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

              Now that is KING JAMES language Williams, which according to you is inerrant. My LORD and my GOD. Is that not worship? Is Jesus not GOD? He is God. And as such He is worthy of our worship.

              So what is this nonsense about not worshipping Jesus? – it is just another false Koranic doctrine.

            • Williams

              Quote:

              In the Word it is written:

              Matthew

              Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

              Mark

              And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

              Luke

              And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.

              John

              …and He bowed His head and gave up the ghost.

              It says
              “He (Jesus) gave up the ghost.”
              “Father, into Thy hands I commend MY SPIRIT:”

              They did NOT kill Christ.

              Christ is a Spirit-Being, like The “I AM” His Father.

              I believe and take Christ at His own Word, and according to His Own Word.

              John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

              “for MY Father is GREATER THAN I.”

              John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

              “I ascend unto MY Father, and your Father; AND [TO] MY GOD, and your God.”

              Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have Eternal Life?
              19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

              They Killed Christ Not.

              P.S. You seem to be confused by the false “Trinity” doctrine – it is false, there is no such thing and it is not Biblical, which is also CONFIRMED in the Koran – Scroll down and read “They Killed Christ Not.”

            • Williams

              “And your suggestion that the people who crucified Him were attempting to ERASE HIS BEING, is a preposterous assertion which finds NO backing; either in the Scriptures OR in the Koran.”

              A preposterous assertion. Really?

              Just what do you suppose it is then, exactly, that they had in mind and were trying to do? Christ laid down His life (bodily), for the benefit of all of His enemies and then He took it back again (bodily), when He confounded them as He triumphantly rose from the dead on the Third day.

              The people who crucified Him were out of control and believed Satan’s lie, that they were “only human” and therefore also falsely believed that He therefore had to also be “only human” and therefore, that they could kill Him by having Him crucified.

              But they were WRONG and “They Killed Christ Not”, because Christ is NOT human – He is a Spirit-Being and is Immortal.

              “Matthew 28:9

              And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held Him by the feet, and WORSHIPPED Him.”

              Yes, worshipped – kneeling before Him and bowing down before His feet, showing Him loving reverence and respect, submitting to Him and bowing under His Authority, as God’s Eldest Son – Christ, our Lord, Saviour and King – The King of kings.

              That is our correct place, at His feet – as His servants and subjects, bowing under Him as our King, placing ourselves under His Authority, as God has appointed Him to be over us. God’s Beloved Son in whom He is well pleased, and Who we were clearly instructed by God to hear (and to obey).

              And therefore, if we say we love Him, then we have to prove it, by serving Him and submitting our “Selves” to being under His Authority and to obey Him (1 John).

              And Christ instructed us exactly how to Worship

              John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
              4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship [Him] with their spirit (being) and in Truth.

              and to pray ONLY to our Father Who art in Heaven, in private (Christ never said to pray to Jesus):

              Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt NOT be as the hypocrites [ARE]: for they love to pray standing in the churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
              6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and WHEN THOU HAST SHUT THY DOOR, pray to thy Father in private (Enoch 56:5; Sura 7:55); and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

              “John 20:28

              And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”

              Yes, our Lord and our God. We need to listen to Him and obey His Commands, like God told us, for example, in Mark:

              Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
              9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no whitener on earth can white them.
              9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
              9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
              9:6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
              9:7 And there was a “Cloud” that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the “Cloud”, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

              JAH is The Second Coming of Christ :- http://jahtruth.net/emmau2.htm

              The “other gospel” referred to elsewhere, is in fact so-called “christianity” as it is known today, which is NOT the true Gospel of God and Christ and was started by Simon PATER, the sorcerer (NOT Simon Peter), as mentioned in the Book of Acts.

              Anyone reading this, please don’t take my word for any of it, but go and study the links and look it all up for yourself, as I am not a teacher but only a student and only striving to point out the Truth to other seekers, by reproving the unfruitful works of darkness and exposing the lies of organised religions, by striving to pass on what I have been able to learn so far, from The Teacher – JAH.

              Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].

              Please go and study JAHTruth.net and “The Way home or face The Fire” for yourself.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “They did NOT kill Christ.”

              Then you have no idea what death is. And you do not believe the Word of God. Messiah suffered death just as surely as you and I will suffer it. We will die. He also died.

              “Christ is a Spirit-Being, like The “I AM” His Father.”

              He IS.

              “I believe and take Christ at His own Word, and according to His Own Word.”

              I find that statement to be untrue. You do not believe the Word of God which clearly states that Messiah received and is worthy to receive worship. How then can you say you take Christ at His own Word?

              “…for MY Father is GREATER THAN I.”

              Do you post this verse for some reason? Have I disputed that Messiah said these words? I have not.

              “I ascend unto MY Father, and your Father; AND [TO] MY GOD, and your God.”

              Again I must express bewilderment at your decision to bring up this next verse. What point are you trying to make?

              “They Killed Christ Not.”

              Messiah died indeed. Our King came and died. He was raised the third day. Between dying and being raised, He was dead. We will be dead between our death and our resurrection. Messiah did not cease to exist while He was dead and neither will we. They most certainly DID kill the Christ – they killed the Anointed one.

              “P.S. You seem to be confused by the false “Trinity” doctrine – it is false, there is no such thing and it is not Biblical, which is also CONFIRMED in the Koran – Scroll down and read “They Killed Christ Not.””

              Nothing doing, friend. I am no Trinitarian. I do not adhere to doctrines which find their genesis in a source other than the Word of God. There is no authentic trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe in the Father and I believe in the Son. The two are separate and distinct. And they are One. I believe in the Holy Spirit, which Spirit they share – which Spirit is not God and is at no time in Scripture referred to as God (non-compelling proof text offered by Trinitarians notwithstanding).

              “A preposterous assertion. Really?”

              Yes. A preposterous assertion. The Scriptures do not teach of an existence-less oblivion after death; they do not teach of a (so-called) soul sleep.

              “Just what do you suppose it is then, exactly, that they had in mind and were trying to do?”

              The same thing any believer in an afterlife does when they kill, execute or assassinate another. Do you imagine King David thought he was dispatching the men he killed into an existence-less void? No. David knew more about death than most all believers know.

              “Christ laid down His life (bodily), for the benefit of all of His enemies and then He took it back again (bodily), when He confounded them as He triumphantly rose from the dead on the Third day.”

              No argument, save for the fact that His Body was either new altogether or changed completely.

              “The people who crucified Him were out of control and believed Satan’s lie, that they were “only human” and therefore also falsely believed that He therefore had to also be “only human” and therefore, that they could kill Him by having Him crucified.”

              This is nothing more than another of your fanciful claims. This is pure, brazen speculation and nothing more. If it isn’t, then perhaps you’ll be kind enough to post supporting verse texts from the Scriptures.

              “But they were WRONG and “They Killed Christ Not”, because Christ is NOT human – He is a Spirit-Being and is Immortal.”

              You’re confusing the issue. He died. No matter how you cut it, Messiah came to this world and then He died. Nothing you can say will change that. Therefore, the Koran is wrong. The Koran is wrong because it contradicts the Word of God.

              “Yes, worshipped – kneeling before Him and bowing down before His feet, showing Him loving reverence and respect, submitting to Him and bowing under His Authority…”

              You of course realize the nature of your own contradiction. You are not being consistent. Worship is worship, friend. Either Messiah is worthy to receive our worship, or He isn’t.

              “…as God’s Eldest Son…”

              MONOGENES HUIOS does not mean ‘eldest son’ – it means UNIQUELY BEGOTTEN.

              “That is our correct place, at His feet – as His servants and subjects, bowing under Him as our King…”

              Worship.

              “And Christ instructed us exactly how to Worship…”

              And so He did. But then you owe a SCRIPTURAL definition which distinguishes between worship and worship, based on the GREEK Manuscripts. You will not be able to do this. There are different Greek words for ‘worship’ and even the ‘highest form of worship’, but you will find that they BOTH apply to Messiah. Jesus received worship as a resurrected man and as the Lamb in Revelation. There is no getting around that fact. Therefore, the Koran is wrong. The Koran is wrong because it contradicts the Word of God.

              “(Christ never said to pray to Jesus)”

              Only in His Name.

              “Yes, our Lord and our God. We need to listen to Him and obey His Commands, like God told us…”

              Lord and GOD.

              “JAH is The Second Coming of Christ…”

              Then you might as well have never even LOOKED at a Bible, friend. And besides, here in the BINs, Jah is going to have to get on the ‘I think I’m the Second Coming of Christ’ line. And believe me friend, that is a VERY long line. You’ll be queued up behind Steve Christ, behind tubby Trailer Christ, behind King Shamma-lamma-lamma Christ, Behind Raymond Elwood Christ, behind Theoferrus Christ (though technically, he only claims to have been on the cross WITH Christ)… You get the idea. ‘Jah is the second coming of Christ’? Then I guess I’m doomed, because I’ll deny that deceiver to his face. Or to your face, or to anyone whose face admits to belonging to him. If he even exists. It’s a very tiresome act, this personal discovery of Jesus-hood. Annoying and revolting, is what it is. Self-exaltation to the uttermost extreme. And I have very little respect for those who would actually fall in line behind such claims. So if you ARE Jah, too bad for you. If you aren’t, but only BELIEVE his lies, perhaps even worse.

              “The “other gospel” referred to elsewhere, is in fact so-called “christianity” as it is known today…”

              Yet further brazen speculation. The ‘other gospel’ is ANY gospel which deviates ONE IOTA from the Gospel received by the people of Messiah. ANYTHING that deviates from His Word is another gospel. And the Koran absolutely deviates. So too do the teachings of Mr. Jah.

              “…which is NOT the true Gospel of God and Christ and was started by Simon PATER, the sorcerer…”

              More speculation.

              “Anyone reading this, please don’t take my word for any of it, but go and study the links and look it all up for yourself…”

              And I hope they do the same. But most people on this page will have no need for your advertised contortions. There isn’t any truth on Jah’s pages – there is only Hollywood fantasy and Koran advocacy mingled with snippets of the Word of God; the very definition of mingled seed.

            • Williams

              The disciples were showing Him love and reverence. They were not worshiping Him in place of God The Father, as that would have been and is totally against His Teachings.

              Jesus himself said that people MUST NOT worship him, but JUST worship ONLY GOD (Matt. 19:16-17 & Mark 10:17-18).

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “The disciples were showing Him love and reverence.”

              The disciples were WORSHIPPING HIM, per the King James Version which you have already stated is infallible. You are trapped in a corner on BOTH these issues, Williams. You MAY NOT twist the definition of words on a whim to suit your convenience. You are where you are because you DO NOT allow the Word to do the leading. You would much rather attach yourself to some other doctrine which includes the vain traditions of men. Just quit it, Williams. Let the Word do the speaking and follow IT – not this hooplehead called Jah or Muad’Dib or whatever. He’s wrong. And you’re wrong to believe him.

              “They were not worshiping Him in place of God The Father…”

              ONE is worthy of worship, Williams. The Father and the Son are ONE. The Father and the Son ARE GOD. How many Gods is that? ONE.

              “…that would have been and is totally against His Teachings.”

              You mean against your teachings.

              “Jesus himself said that people MUST NOT worship him, but JUST worship ONLY GOD (Matt. 19:16-17 & Mark 10:17-18).”

              You really do have a problem reading verses, don’t you. There is NOTHING in Matthew 19:16-17, nor in Mark 10:17-18, that says what YOU SAY is in the verses. I’m actually beginning to doubt your sincerity, Williams. Messiah NEVER SAID to ANYONE that they should not worship Him, and I DEFY you to prove otherwise using ANY valid source material you like.

              You will never proceed on your search if you stick with this nonsense, Williams. And you are stuck. But there is no one to blame but you.

            • Williams

              Beef: “The disciples were showing Him love and reverence.”

              The disciples were WORSHIPPING HIM, per the King James Version which you have already stated is infallible.

              - No. I NEVER said that it is an infallible translation. I did not use the word “infallible”. What was being said is that the king James Authorised Version of the Bible is the true Bible. Here is what it states on the website:

              “All of the modern translations of the Bible are WRONG. The only previous translation that is any good is the Original king James’ Authorised Version Bible and even it has been incorrectly translated in places and the Books in it are not in their correct chronological order.” – http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

              Not even JAH has claimed that the new King of kings’ Bible translation is infallible, but only saying that it is the MOST accurate translation available and that it is in perfect harmony with the king James Authorised Version that came before it and likewise that it contains the True Koran, also in perfect harmony with it and the rest of Scripture.

              I should have clarified and made this point clear earlier, so it is my mistake and apologies for not having done so until this point.

              No translation so far has been absolutely perfect, (something you also stated previously) but that does not mean that what we have is not the true Bible and that we can’t know and therefore follow God’s Laws in the Torah, which is what He has instructed EVERYONE to be doing (including the Muslims), as the Imams have falsely tried to claim, and brainwashed their followers into believing this LIE by having told the Muslims that the true Bible no longer exists.

              I think, and hope, that you will find that this agrees with a similar statement of yours, that you made in an earlier post.

              What we are after here, is the Truth.

              What we DO know, is that God has told us that ALL of the Scriptures, once correctly written down, would be in perfect agreement and that there would be perfect harmony.

              That is what it says in the Book of Enoch, which is what this article by Abdiel freeman was about. Here is what it says, in Enoch:

              THE INCORRECT WRITING OF GOD’S WORDS PROPHESIED:-

              104:8 They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood (ch. 97:2); create a great creation (false religions and religious traditions and technology); and compose books of their own words (books of man-made laws; books of the religious traditions of their fathers; novels; etc.; etc.; etc. – ch. 68:13).

              HOW TO RECOGNISE AND CORRECT THE MISTAKES:-

              But when they shall write correctly all My words in their own languages,
              104:9 They (My words) shall neither change nor diminish (Mark 13:31; Matt. 5:17-19); but when all shall be written correctly; ALL, which from the first I have uttered concerning them shall concur (John 10:35; Sura 15:9).

              So there we have it. God has told us that there has to be perfect harmony between all of the Scriptures. This makes PERFECT sense when you think about it. Doesn’t it?

              “They were not worshiping Him in place of God The Father…”

              ONE is worthy of worship, Williams. The Father and the Son are ONE. The Father and the Son ARE GOD. How many Gods is that? ONE.”

              That, or something similar to it, is what is being taught in much of so-called organised “christianity”. But the fact Beef is that it does not make any sense!

              Was Jesus praying to and talking to Himself all those times, when He was taking to and praying to Father? Are they telling us, that we are supposed to believe that He was a schizophrenic? No. Of course He was certainly NOT. Surely, we know better than that.

              Saying that Jesus Christ was the Son and at the same time He was also His Father, Who He talked to and prayed to, all at the same time. Was Jesus trying to confuse everyone? – No Beef – that does NOT make any sense. That – which the so-called “christians” want everyone to believe, is NOT true and is not what He said.

              What was He saying?

              “The Father and the Son are ONE” – It means They are of ONE mind and that He and His Father are in perfect agreement on everything.

              That is why, in the Gospel of John, it correctly reads:

              John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
              10:30 I and [my] Father are at one.

              Note – it says here “at one”. They are of one mind.

              Because that way, now it all makes PERFECT sense, and also with the verse before it and all the other verses quoted.

              And you don’t even have to struggle with any strange mind-bending concepts to try and make it work – it just makes sense.

              John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given me, that they may be one, as We [are].

              That they may “be one”. That we may “be one”, like He and Father “are one”. Don’t you see it?

              We should all be of one mind – be “as one” – like He and Father are “as one” – as all of us should be “as one” – living in harmony with one another and being one people – all His people and all DOING His Will.

              This is what He was telling us.

              “You really do have a problem reading verses, don’t you. There is NOTHING in Matthew 19:16-17, nor in Mark 10:17-18, that says what YOU SAY is in the verses.”

              He said that even HE did not consider Himself to be good, and that only His Father is Good – God.

              Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

              Beef, we would do well here to learn something of Christ’s Humility. Wouldn’t you agree?

              Are we better than Him? OF COURSE WE ARE NOT. So, why should we think that we can disagree with Him and that His Words have to mean something different than just what He actually said, like they teach people to do in so-called christianity? Can we settle for this? No, we cannot. And neither should you.

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme,

              Please see my last reply at the bottom, because this thread is so long already, that it is becoming difficult to reply here in this spot.

              God Bless,
              Williams.

          • Williams

            “You are peddling confusion. You are selling mingled seed. You are attempting to mix the holy with the profane. Whether you are doing so intentionally or out of ignorance makes no difference. The results of your error are identical in either case.”

            No. I’m simply promoting the Truth; that there exists PERFECT harmony, between all of the TRUE Scriptures.

            All of which (including God’s TRUE Koran) continually tells us, that we all need to return to keeping only God’s Law.

            In another post, you said you agreed that we need to return to keeping God’s Law, which I was glad to read, and hope we can keep agreeing on in future.

            Just think how different the world would be, if we all (including our brothers, the Muslims) could manage to do that, then for the first time, there would be World at Peace, instead of what we have now – a World at War.

            In order to be able to “see” the Truth of it, one first needs to anoint one’s eyes with JAH’s Eye Salve, so that the “scales can come off”.

            JAH’s Eye Salve can be found at :- http://jahtruth.net/wayad.htm

            Peace be upon you.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              Won’t you help keep this conversation in as coherent a form as possible by posting your replies where they belong? This is important so let’s try to limit unnecessary confusion. Unless confusion is your intent.

              I wrote:

              “You are peddling confusion. You are selling mingled seed. You are attempting to mix the holy with the profane. Whether you are doing so intentionally or out of ignorance makes no difference. The results of your error are identical in either case.”

              Your reply:

              “No. I’m simply promoting the Truth; that there exists PERFECT harmony, between all of the TRUE Scriptures.”

              Then answer the two questions I asked you above. Very simple, Williams. Here, I will ask them again:

              Do you believe in the deity of Messiah?

              Do you believe that Messiah was crucified, died and was resurrected the Third Day?

              (That’s now twice you’ve been asked. Prove me wrong, Williams.)

              “In another post, you said you agreed that we need to return to keeping God’s Law, which I was glad to read, and hope we can keep agreeing on in future.”

              I am Torah pursuant. That means I study God’s Word and His Law and I try to enforce His Laws in my own life. I of course fail miserably at my attempts – but I will continue the struggle. His Laws are to be meditated upon and learned from. And fortunately for me, I have a Savior to cover my shortfall; One who has paid the bill for my sins.

              “Just think how different the world would be, if we all (including our brothers, the Muslims) could manage to do that, then for the first time, there would be World at Peace, instead of what we have now – a World at War.”

              There will be no abiding peace in this age until Messiah returns to rule with an Iron Rod. Muslims need to repent of their false worship and turn to the Most High. Mohammed must be rejected and Messiah the King – the Son of God – must be adhered to above and to the exclusion of all else. No exceptions.

              “In order to be able to “see” the Truth of it, one first needs to anoint one’s eyes with JAH’s Eye Salve, so that the “scales can come off”.”

              What outrageous vanity. We need the work of some man in order to understand the Word of our God? That’s just what the rabbis say. That’s just what Rome says. That is BLASPHEMY, friend. Plain, old-fashioned blasphemy. You are woefully out of line and are tragically deceived.

              “Peace be upon you.”

              That’s what the Muslims say. Here is what Messiah our King says: Peace be UNTO you.

              Note the difference. Contemplate it. Meditate on it. Learn from it.

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme, I have answered both your questions in the post above.

              “What outrageous vanity. We need the work of some man in order to understand the Word of our God? ”

              “some man” Ah, you REALLY ought to read that Book, that I have suggested to you now more than once. If you REALLY are sincere in wanting to know the Truth of the matter, then please do that. It should answer all of your questions.

              Peace be upon you, and within you.

              Williams

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “Beef Supreme, I have answered both your questions in the post above.”

              You said, in an apparent answer to my first question, whether you believe in Messiah’s deity:

              “No, I have not denied this…”

              Good. Then if Messiah is God, then He most certainly is worthy to be worshipped as God. And you CLEARLY recognize the problem with denying that He died, for if not, you would never have altered surah 4:157 the way you have altered it. But you only inserted your commentary into the passage – you did not actually eliminate the problematic wording which denies that Messiah died. Thus, the problem persists. I won’t even ask how you’ve come to imagine yourself sufficiently well-endowed with the authority to RE-WRITE the Koran, as I’m actually not interested in WHAT you believe; only in WHY you believe what you believe.

              “some man” Ah, you REALLY ought to read that Book, that I have suggested to you now more than once. If you REALLY are sincere in wanting to know the Truth of the matter, then please do that. It should answer all of your questions.

              Yes, Muad’Dib. Some man. That is what you are. Stop thinking more highly of yourself than you should – and that most certainly means you should never imagine yourself to be an inspired author of the Word of God. You are but a student; a worthy enough position in its own right. Don’t demean that worthy position by exalting yourself (vicariously, of course) the way we’ve been cautioned against doing in the Word. The Word is true, Jah. All else is vanity. As I explained to you once before, I read your book a few years ago. I know what a mess you’ve made of things. I explored your theories about Gibraltar, about Dune, about the Jedi… etc. You’re not short on creative imagination – that’s for certain. But did you miss the warnings in the written Word NEVER to rely upon vain imaginations for much else besides the odd passing fancy?

              “Peace be upon you, and within you.”

              Peace be unto you, Jah Abdiel Muad’Dib Freeman Jedi Williams

              [More study of what IS written and less (much less) editorializing about what HAS been written, is what I would suggest to you as one student to another. But I congratulate you for not having been arrogant enough to attempt a re-write of the Scriptures. If you had to pick one book to tamper with, it may as well have been the Koran.]

              God Speed.

    • Pink Slime

      This sounds a lot like the Book of Morons. After reading a few pages I just couldn’t take it anymore. I can’t believe grown white men believe in it much like the way I can’t believe children actually believe in Dr. Dolittle, which they don’t so who is more brighter?

    • destinedtoberevealed

      Beef Supreme you say“All throughout Scripture God tells us, over and over again, that we have to return to keeping His Law in the Torah.”

      I could not disagree with you more on that point.

      The Old Testament Law which is obsolete, has been replaced by the New Testament Covenant. As a result of the death and resurrection of Christ, true Spirit filled believers understand that they are not under the Old Testament Law. This article will help the reader to understand the new Law of Christ.

      Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

      The Old Testament law is fulfilled as they come to pass in the New Testament revelations.

      Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

      The Old Testament Law of Moses, written on tablets of stone, was given unto Israel after the flesh. These people continuously rejected God the Father and served many strange gods, only a remnant sought Jehovah through faith.

      Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

      Lean Not on Your own wisdomThe second covenant was the Law of Christ written in the hearts of men, Israel after the Spirit.
      This passage refers to the whole house of Israel. All of mankind can now believe in Christ and serve Him in newness of Spirit through faith, hope and love. Everyone that trusts in the cross of Christ is counted as the Israel of God.

      Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart [is] my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of them.

      Isaiah prophesized of the true followers of God; this people would know the new law of Christ and it would be in their hearts and minds. Following the New Testament law of Jesus instead of the Old Testament Law of men, would enable them to one day receive redemption at the second coming.

      Isaiah 51:11Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

      This is the second gathering of the true Israel, the church that Christ bought; it also is a future prophecy awaiting the return of Jesus as King of Kings. Modern day Israel is a man made gathering of a people that for the most part despise Jesus. The second gathering of God’s Israel is a spiritual event dealing with a redeemed people; the word redeemed refers to our salvation when we are transformed at Christ’s second coming.

      Mark 2:21-22 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse. And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

      Old Testament LawIt is impossible to mix the New Testament Covenant that has the saving blood of Christ, with the Old Testament Law that did not, they simply do not agree with each other. Putting new wine into an old bottle will cause both to perish, because the old bottle is not designed for the new. Under the Old Testament Law there was a temple that God’s Spirit dwelled in, under the new law of Christ we are the temple that he dwells in (1 Cor 3:16-17; 1 Cor 6:19).

      Many claim to be partially under the Old Testament Law and therefore do not fully accept the new law of Christ; this is quite unfortunate.

      The new law of Christ is not only better, it also happens to be the only choice available, as the old has passed away. Any man in Christ is a new creation and all things have become new; this new bottle refers to the vessel unto honor that we purge from iniquity as is required for the Holy Spirit to reside in; old things or events of the past such as the old law are passed away (2 Cor 5:17; 2 Tim 2:21).

      John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now

      Jesus Christ has brought forth the good or new wine which is the new covenant, last; the first wine which was the old covenant was not nearly as good. Also the first was fulfilled or completed in him on the Cross, and has vanished.

      Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

      Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

      Old Testament Law given unto the Hebrews with the commandments and ordinances were to be received by faith; to attempt to keep these works or letters of the law without faith in God was unprofitable and dead. Likewise Christ came and gave the new law. Without the hearing of faith, the spirit that He sent would not be received; it is the infilling of the spirit of Christ that allows us to understand His word. To operate in the flesh with self-righteousness is also unto dead works.

      • Williams

        “The Old Testament Law which is obsolete”

        That is not true:

        Matthew
        5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill (pleroo – fully preach).
        5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.
        5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven.
        5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

        We are to keep all of The Commandments. Only the ceremonial part of The Law, that had to do with priests and animal sacrifices has been abolished and has been replaced by daily “Self”-sacrifice. Please see:- http://jahtruth.net/noti.htm

    • Williams

      They Killed Christ Not.

      Source:- http://jahtruth.net/kcnot.htm

      4:154. And for their Covenant We raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) We said: “Enter the gate with humility”; and (once again) We commanded them: “Transgress not in the matter of the Sabbath.” And we took from them a solemn Covenant.
      4:155. (They have incurred divine displeasure): in that they broke their Covenant; that they rejected the Signs of God; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, “Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve God’s Word; we need no more)”;- nay, God hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little it is that they believe;-
      4:156. That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
      4:157. That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”;- but they killed Christ not, nor crucified Christ, but so it was made to appear to them (as they crucified the human body called Jesus, that Christ the spirit-Being used), and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) Knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed Christ not:-
      4:158. Nay, God raised him up unto Himself and God is Exalted in Power, and in Wisdom;-
      4:159. And, of the People of the Book, they all must believe him (Christ) before their death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them (and you) (Surah 43:61);-
      4:160. For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been lawful for them;- because they hindered many from God’s Way;-
      4:161. In that they took usury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men’s substance wrongfully;- We have prepared for those among them who reject Faith a grievous punishment.
      4:162. But those among them who are well-grounded in Knowledge, and the Believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what was revealed before thee: and (especially) those who establish constant prayer and practise regular charity and believe God and in the Last Day: to them shall We soon give a great reward.
      4:163. We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: We sent inspiration to Abraham; Ishmael; Isaac; Jacob and the (twelve) Tribes (of Israel); to Aaron; Job; Solomon son of David; Jonah; Jesus; and to David We gave the Psalms (in the Old Covenant/Testament, in the Bible).
      4:164. Of some Apostles We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses God spoke direct;-
      4:165. Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the Apostles, should have no plea against God: for God is Exalted in Power, and Wisdom.
      4:166. But God beareth witness that what He hath sent unto thee He hath sent from His (Own) Knowledge, and the angels bear witness: but enough is God for a witness.
      4:167. Those who reject Faith and obstruct (men) from The Way of God, have verily strayed far, far away from The Way (The Covenant).
      4:168. Those who reject Faith and do wrong,- God will not forgive them nor guide them to any way
      4:169. Except the way of Hell-Fire, to dwell therein for ever. And this to God is easy.
      4:170. O Mankind! The Messenger hath come to you in truth from God: believe him: it is best for you. But if ye reject Faith, to God belong all things in the heavens and on earth: and God is All-knowing, All-wise.
      4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of God aught but the Truth. Jesus the (human) son of Mary was (no more than) an Apostle of God; and His Word (John 1:14); which He bestowed on Mary’s (human) son; is a spirit-Being (Christ) proceeding from Him (making the human+Being called Jesus+Christ): so believe God and His Apostles. Say NOT “Trinity”: DESIST: it will be better for you: for “I AM” is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a human son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.
      4:172. Christ commandeth YE to serve and worship God, so do the angels, those nearest (to God): those who scorn His worship and are arrogant,- He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
      4:173. But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: but those who are scornful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous Penalty; nor will they find, besides God, any to protect or help them.

      • Mayhem

        Jah-truth! Dune (1984) directed by David Lynch…

        http://jahtruth.net/dune.htm#Muad

        … dude that’s a movie based on a science fiction novel.

        Get a freaking grip.

    • Williams

      This is a repeat of a reply above, being posted again here, because it is getting difficult to post replies in the threads above, due the lenght and the number of posts.

      Beef: “The disciples were showing Him love and reverence.”

      The disciples were WORSHIPPING HIM, per the King James Version which you have already stated is infallible.

      - No. I NEVER said that it is an infallible translation. I did not use the word “infallible”. What was being said is that the king James Authorised Version of the Bible is the true Bible. Here is what it states on the website:

      “All of the modern translations of the Bible are WRONG. The only previous translation that is any good is the Original king James’ Authorised Version Bible and even it has been incorrectly translated in places and the Books in it are not in their correct chronological order.” – http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

      Not even JAH has claimed that the new King of kings’ Bible translation is infallible, but only saying that it is the MOST accurate translation available and that it is in perfect harmony with the king James Authorised Version that came before it and likewise that it contains the True Koran, also in perfect harmony with it and the rest of Scripture.

      I should have clarified and made this point clear earlier, so it is my mistake and apologies for not having done so until this point.

      No translation so far has been absolutely perfect, (something you also stated previously) but that does not mean that what we have is not the true Bible and that we can’t know and therefore follow God’s Laws in the Torah, which is what He has instructed EVERYONE to be doing (including the Muslims), as the Imams have falsely tried to claim, and brainwashed their followers into believing this LIE by having told the Muslims that the true Bible no longer exists.

      I think, and hope, that you will find that this agrees with a similar statement of yours, that you made in an earlier post.

      What we are after here, is the Truth.

      What we DO know, is that God has told us that ALL of the Scriptures, once correctly written down, would be in perfect agreement and that there would be perfect harmony.

      That is what it says in the Book of Enoch, which is what this article by Abdiel freeman was about. Here is what it says, in Enoch:

      THE INCORRECT WRITING OF GOD’S WORDS PROPHESIED:-

      104:8 They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood (ch. 97:2); create a great creation (false religions and religious traditions and technology); and compose books of their own words (books of man-made laws; books of the religious traditions of their fathers; novels; etc.; etc.; etc. – ch. 68:13).

      HOW TO RECOGNISE AND CORRECT THE MISTAKES:-

      But when they shall write correctly all My words in their own languages,
      104:9 They (My words) shall neither change nor diminish (Mark 13:31; Matt. 5:17-19); but when all shall be written correctly; ALL, which from the first I have uttered concerning them shall concur (John 10:35; Sura 15:9).

      So there we have it. God has told us that there has to be perfect harmony between all of the Scriptures. This makes PERFECT sense when you think about it. Doesn’t it?

      “They were not worshiping Him in place of God The Father…”

      ONE is worthy of worship, Williams. The Father and the Son are ONE. The Father and the Son ARE GOD. How many Gods is that? ONE.”

      That, or something similar to it, is what is being taught in much of so-called organised “christianity”. But the fact Beef is that it does not make any sense!

      Was Jesus praying to and talking to Himself all those times, when He was taking to and praying to Father? Are they telling us, that we are supposed to believe that He was a schizophrenic? No. Of course He was certainly NOT. Surely, we know better than that.

      Saying that Jesus Christ was the Son and at the same time He was also His Father, Who He talked to and prayed to, all at the same time. Was Jesus trying to confuse everyone? – No Beef – that does NOT make any sense. That – which the so-called “christians” want everyone to believe, is NOT true and is not what He said.

      What was He saying?

      “The Father and the Son are ONE” – It means They are of ONE mind and that He and His Father are in perfect agreement on everything.

      That is why, in the Gospel of John, it correctly reads:

      John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
      10:30 I and [my] Father are at one.

      Note – it says here “at one”. They are of one mind.

      Because that way, now it all makes PERFECT sense, and also with the verse before it and all the other verses quoted.

      And you don’t even have to struggle with any strange mind-bending concepts to try and make it work – it just makes sense.

      John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given me, that they may be one, as We [are].

      That they may “be one”. That we may “be one”, like He and Father “are one”. Don’t you see it?

      We should all be of one mind – be “as one” – like He and Father are “as one” – as all of us should be “as one” – living in harmony with one another and being one people – all His people and all DOING His Will.

      This is what He was telling us.

      “You really do have a problem reading verses, don’t you. There is NOTHING in Matthew 19:16-17, nor in Mark 10:17-18, that says what YOU SAY is in the verses.”

      He said that even HE did not consider Himself to be good, and that only His Father is Good – God.

      Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou ME good? [there is] none good but One, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the Commandments.

      Beef, we would do well here to learn something of Christ’s Humility. Wouldn’t you agree?

      Are we better than Him? OF COURSE WE ARE NOT. So, why should we think that we can disagree with Him and that His Words have to mean something different than just what He actually said, like they teach people to do in so-called christianity? Can we settle for this? No, we cannot. And neither should you.

      • Mayhem

        “What we are after here, is the Truth.”

        The truth is, Donovan, that the Qu’ran contradicts itself whereas The Inspired Word does not.

        Deal with it.

        • Williams

          You are wrong.

          The TRUE Koran does not contradict itself, but is in perfect harmony with itself as it is with all of the rest of Scripture.

          • Mayhem

            The Qur’an forbids Muslims to marry idolatrous women…

            http://quran.com/2/221

            … and calls Christians idolaters and unbelievers…

            http://quran.com/9/28-33

            … but still allows Muslims to marry Christian women…

            http://quran.com/5

            … therefore Islam is contradictory.

            • Williams

              Islam may be contradictory. But God’s TRUE Koran, is not.

            • Williams

              The organised religion known as “Islam” is contradictory, because Islam teaches the opposite of what it says in the Koran.

              In the Koran it says that the True Bible would surely reach them, but the organised religion known as “Islam” says the opposite by saying the True Bible no longer exists.

              The Scriptures, including the TRUE Koran (just to keep emphasizing that – the TRUE Koran) are not contradictory but in perfect harmony, because it all says the same thing – that we have to return to keeping only God’s Law and doing His Will:

              Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the Day cometh, that shall burn like an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the “I AM” Lord of hosts, that it shall leave of them neither root nor branch (nothing).
              4:2 But unto you that fear My name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
              4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in The Day that I shall do [this], saith the “I AM” Lord of hosts.
              4:4 Remember ye and return to The Law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the Statutes and Judgments.
              4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the “I AM” (Sura 43:61):
              4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (See verse 1, for details of the curse.)

            • BEEF SUPREME

              “The organised religion known as “Islam” is contradictory, because Islam teaches the opposite of what it says in the Koran.”

              Men can come along and re-write the entire Koran, Williams. That is what Jah has apparently done. What does that change? Nothing. There is no such thing as God’s Koran. You can re-write the Babylonian and the Jerusalem Talmuds if you like, to eliminate all of the portions which clash with the Word of God. But what have you accomplished? Have you made the profane holy? Can men do that?

              The Word of God is testable. It is vet-able. Jah is testable too. Have you tested him? How have you made your determination that he is someone worth hearing on matters such as these? Because the things he says sound right to your ears? How?

      • Williams

        Beef Supreme,

        What I wrote above, is just how I read those verses in John. Perhaps it is correct, perhaps it is not correct. I make no claim of having a full understanding, far from it, and when shown to be in error know I need to be thankful for correction and to then stand corrected.

        By having done this, and having given my opinion of what the verses mean, I have feel I have most likely, if not surely, erred, because, it is not my place to try and explain or to say, this is what a Scripture means. Because, my understanding is fallible.

        So, what I wrote about what He said and in those verses, is at best one opinion, which might probably better not have been shared at all.

        It is true, as far as we know, that nowhere does it say Christ/Messiah stopped someone from bowing down before and worshipping Him. Only, He did give us specific instructions on worship though, and just personally aiming to stick to and follow those Instructions.

        It was not intended to imply that I’m saying you are wrong in how you personally perceive God to be, and that therefore you would need to change it. How see God is none of my business. From the exchange we had, it does not appear to me that you are insincere in your belief.

        So, in case it ended up coming across the wrong way, even though it was never meant to do so, then for that I would owe and offer you an apology.

        The Roman Catholics, as you are surely aware, make graven images of the human body of Jesus, (that Christ the Spirit-Being used) and then teach their followers to worship the graven images of that human body, as being God. That we can be sure is wrong and those, and other verses that quote Christ surely apply. And then they say “Jesus is God” and further go on to call Mary “The Mother of God”, which she was not – and so Billions of Catholics are misled.

        For me personally, simple just works best and just striving to learn and follow God and Christ’s Instructions, as best I can. So, I don’t wish to continue having any arguments with you about these things we have differing views on.

        If we both can agree, as it seemed initially that we did, that we all need to keep The Commandments and do God’s Will, then I think that in itself is already worth much more than most people can manage to agree on (which is in most cases, hardly anything at all).

        But, I must say that I don’t care for what you have written here against JAH. I would sincerely urge you, to reconsider.

        God Bless,

        Williams.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          I didn’t see this follow-on comment of yours until after I posted (below) my considerable reply to your previous comment. I will have time to address this additional material later in the day. I notice that you mention the interpretation of John 10:30 was your own interpretation, not Jah’s. Be that as it may, I have treated of the matter below in word-for-word specifics from the Greek Manuscripts.

          Also, I would encourage you to view the instances where I employ ALL CAPS as merely being emphatic, rather than yelling at you. (Though there are a few places where a bit of hollering does seem like what’s called for.)

          To be continued…

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “It is true, as far as we know, that nowhere does it say Christ/Messiah stopped someone from bowing down before and worshipping Him.”

          Not only that Williams, but Messiah very clearly received the obeisance and worship which was directed to him. Every other time in Scripture, when worship is inappropriately directed to another, we see that other (if the other is obedient to God) IMMEDIATELY make the worshipper to cease what they are doing. The Greeks tried to worship Paul and Barnabas. Paul’s response:

          Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you…

          John tried to worship the angel in Revelation:

          And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

          But we, on numerous occasions, see Messiah receiving and accepting obeisance and worship. That is a DIRECT contradiction to what we find written in the Koran – including your ‘translation’ of it. What of this contradiction, Williams? Will you ignore it? Will you seek to excuse it? — to rationalize it away? The contradiction exists and the contradiction is Mount Everest-sized. That’s because the Word of God says Messiah is one thing; the Koran (any version of it) says He is something else entirely.

          “Only, He did give us specific instructions on worship though, and just personally aiming to stick to and follow those Instructions.”

          That is absolutely and completely beside the point.

          “It was not intended to imply that I’m saying you are wrong in how you personally perceive God to be, and that therefore you would need to change it.”

          I am not talking to you about opinions, Williams. I try, to the best of my abilities, never to let my opinion of these matters enter into the discussion. What I think is meaningless, for the purposes of this exercise. I am talking to you about that which is written in the Word of God, as it brazenly contrasts with that which is written in ANY and ALL versions of the Koran.

          “And then they say “Jesus is God”…”

          Jesus is God. See the Scriptures.

          “…and further go on to call Mary “The Mother of God”, which she was not…”

          Messiah referred to Mary as ‘woman.’ He did not refer to her as ‘mother.’ God has no mother.

          “…and so Billions of Catholics are misled.”

          They are so misled because they allow MEN to do their thinking for them. They allow SOME MAN (or group or institution of men) to stand between them and the written Word. Rome (according to Rome) gets to re-write the Word of God. Rome gets to offer commentary on the Word of God – to explain it in a way that suits their purposes. That is precisely what Jah has done and you are no less misled than the Catholics because you persist in making the very same error the Catholics make. You have allowed a man to come between you and the Word of God. You have allowed a self-exalting ‘teacher’ to tell you what the Word of God ‘actually’ means. That is precisely the same thing you just objected to in the case of Papal authorities and the Catholic laity. It is as plain as the nose on your face, Williams.

          “For me personally, simple just works best and just striving to learn and follow God and Christ’s Instructions, as best I can. So, I don’t wish to continue having any arguments with you about these things we have differing views on.”

          I would agree that our work here is about finished.

          “But, I must say that I don’t care for what you have written here against JAH. I would sincerely urge you, to reconsider.”

          I have no reason to reconsider. I know who he is. I know MANY men who do what he does. He may be better at it than some or even most, but what he is and what he does is nothing unique. He is a danger to people like you who have become smitten with his ability to weave webs of deceit. He may even have had good intentions at some point. He may even believe what he teaches. But he does what he does in CONTRADICTION to the Word of God. He teaches many lies. He is the bearer of another gospel and the Apostle has made it VERY clear what that means. Sticking with what is written was not good enough for Jah. The Word of God, as it exists, is not good enough for Jah. Mr. Jah feels he needs to come along and CLARIFY that which has stood for thousands (in the case of the New Testament) of years, and hundreds of years (in the case of the Koran). He felt compelled to do this because he arrogantly imagined he could see things in these writings that others could not. That compulsion is motivated by a belief that he is better and more uniquely suited to make such observations than perhaps all other people. And ANYONE in this age who pretends to be our returned KING, is worthy of much contempt and derision. They are, all of them, outrageously self-obsessed vainglorious conmen Either that or they are possessed by demons and should be institutionalized or cleansed. They should NOT be kowtowed to and followed. They should not be advertised or defended. They should not be revered and they should not be believed to even the narrowest degree.

          May God bless you, friend. And may you labor to examine the issues set newly before you. May you reconsider the snare you have willingly placed your neck into by not being as prudent with the warnings of Scripture as you should have been. May you see the truth of this deceiver and may you see the truth of the Koran. May you find peace and strength in the Word of God and may He lead you by His Word out of the wilderness of Babylon – which is confusion.

          Your brother in Messiah Yehoshua Ben Elohim of Nazareth, Christ Jesus the KING,

          Jed Bozza

          (BEEF SUPREME)

      • BEEF SUPREME

        “No. I NEVER said that it is an infallible translation. I did not use the word “infallible”.”

        Now I really am beginning to doubt your sincerity, Williams. HERE is what YOU wrote:

        “The king James Authorised Version Bible is the TRUE Bible.”

        T R U E. All capital letters. If something is amiss in that translation, if even ONE jot or ONE tittle is out of place, or, God forbid (for your argument’s sake) something should be said which is NOT true – then you tell me how the hell that’s any kind of a, excuse me, THE, true Bible. I said the King James was a translation and like ALL other translations, there were provable flaws contained within it. YOU, on the other hand, chose to advocate the untenable argument that there even IS such a thing as a TRUE Bible, and that the King James Version was it. So don’t even TRY backing off from that nonsense now that it has become inconvenient for you. Grow a spine. Get HONEST. RECANT your former statement and admit that it was untrue. Admit that the King James Bible does INDEED have flaws within it, because it is a translation of MEN, from Manuscripts which THEMSELVES have certain flaws. Stop playing games with language and stop playing games with me. In this case, the words ‘true’ and ‘infallible’ are identical with intent to communicate the same idea of INERRANCY.

        “What was being said is that the king James Authorised Version of the Bible is the true Bible. Here is what it states on the website…”

        I care nothing for what it is written on your website. I’m not having a conversation with your website, Williams; I’m having a conversation with you. Citing sources now does nothing to change what you wrote above.

        “Not even JAH has claimed that the new King of kings’ Bible translation is infallible…”

        Good for him. Then in that case, he can stop using the word ‘true’ as well.

        “…but only saying that it is the MOST accurate translation available…”

        That is an opinion. You aren’t even aware of every translation available. Neither is Mr. Jah.

        “…and that it is in perfect harmony with the king James Authorised Version that came before it…”

        The 1611 ‘authorized version’ had even more errors than the modern Cambridge Edition KJV. That is a provable fact.

        “…and likewise that it contains the True Koran…”

        It, what, contains the ‘True’ Koran? Never any version of the King James contained a Koran, Williams. Get your facts in order. Perhaps you mean the apocrypha.

        “…also in perfect harmony with it and the rest of Scripture.”

        You really need to stop saying that. You DON’T know what it means. Mr. Jah does not know what it means either.

        “I should have clarified and made this point clear earlier, so it is my mistake and apologies for not having done so until this point.”

        You are still not being clear. Stop using words like ‘perfect’ and ‘harmony’ and ‘true’ if you honesty DO wish to alleviate confusion in your communication. There is NO TRUE Bible. There is NO TRUE Koran. Study the history of the Koran and learn for yourself.

        “No translation so far has been absolutely perfect, (something you also stated previously) but that does not mean that what we have is not the true Bible…”

        Yes, Williams. That is exactly what it means. What we have today are Bibles, in translation of one form or another, for better or for worse. That is what we have. Beyond that we have the Manuscripts and the Papyri which we may study even if we do not read Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek. ALL of the tools necessary to conduct the task of Scripture study have been given to us freely in this season. EVERYTHING we need in order to glean an understanding of the Scriptures, as they ORIGINALLY existed, has been given to us in abundance. NO ONE, now listen fast Williams, NO ONE is going to HAND YOU all of the answers wrapped up in a nice neat little package. NOWHERE do all the answers exist in one place in this world. Our Father wants us to SEEK. He wants us to STUDY to show ourselves approved. That implies our running to and fro, in an effort to increase knowledge – not sitting in one place and allowing SOME MAN to pour HIS version of truth into our minds. NOWHERE in this world is there a MAN (by the name of Jah or by ANY other name) who has compiled all of the truth there is, as it pertains to the WORD OF GOD, and has presented it to us for our consumption. MANY, MANY men have done what Mr. Jah has PRETENDED to do. And ALL of them have this in common: They are all vainglorious deceivers. They are all liars. Most ESPECIALLY the ones who boast about being the Second Coming of our KING. You do NOT know the Word of God because you do NOT know the WAY of GOD.

        “…and that we can’t know and therefore follow God’s Laws in the Torah, which is what He has instructed EVERYONE to be doing (including the Muslims), as the Imams have falsely tried to claim, and brainwashed their followers into believing this LIE by having told the Muslims that the true Bible no longer exists.”

        The Scriptures, as originally written, exist today. They do not, however, exist in a single neatly bound volume. We OWE IT TO OUR FATHER to engage in a personal search for close familiarity with the material available to us. We DO NOT do our Father a proper service when we attach ourselves to the ‘work’ of SOME MAN who is nothing but a liar and a pretender. You are warned SPECIFICALLY in the WORD OF GOD not to let ANY man come between you and your Father’s Instructions. You have FAILED to obey that commandment. Either that, or you are the perpetrator of the fraud yourself. You say you are not. But I perceive you are not being fully honest with me when you deny that you are he. As I said before, selling his work is just as bad as inventing his work. You are in GRAVE error either way.

        “I think, and hope, that you will find that this agrees with a similar statement of yours, that you made in an earlier post.”

        Very little of what you say is anything I would consider agreeing with.

        “What we are after here, is the Truth.”

        THAT is something I do agree with. But you think you’ve already arrived at the Truth. You think all you have to do is study the work of this Jah, and to learn his commentary, and to consider HIS word on a level with Scripture. If what you’re after really is Truth, you’re going about the search in all the wrong ways.

        “What we DO know, is that God has told us that ALL of the Scriptures, once correctly written down, would be in perfect agreement and that there would be perfect harmony.”

        That’s right. THE Scriptures. That EXCLUDES the Koran. But I believe it includes 1 ENOCH (the only authentic book of Enoch) and it includes Jubilees. (Though Jubilees contains at least one major corruption in the 49th chapter.) And according to everything I have seen – THAT IS IT. NONE of the other apocrypha, pseudepigrapgha or so-called ‘lost books’ are Scripture. NONE of the Gnostic ‘gospels’ are Scripture. None of the Hindu, Brahman, Buddhist or Taoist works are Scripture. NONE of the New Age writings are Scripture. NONE of the Mystery School teachings are Scripture. None of the Occult or Hermetic works are Scripture. And if there is anything else I have neglected to mention, it isn’t Scripture either.

        The WORD OF GOD is something the trained student can detect by examination. That is how the Canon was established – not by any ecumenical councils of Rome. Canon is an ARTIFACT of Inspiration. We can sense the Inspired Word merely by coming into contact with it and immersing ourselves into it. And I testify to you now before the Host of Heaven, the Koran is a DEAD book – and I care not WHAT version or translation you have in mind. The Spirit of God is not in the Koran. You should know that. You WOULD know that if you maintained a more rigid connection with what is written in His Word, rather than trying to incorporate profane and counterfeit substance with His Glory.

        “104:8 They shall speak evil things; they shall utter falsehood (ch. 97:2); create a great creation (false religions and religious traditions and technology); and COMPOSE BOOKS OF THEIR OWN WORDS…”

        Now that is not what shows for Enoch 104:8 in any translation I have checked this morning. It’s early and the text is my copies is small. But I seek to ALL the other evidence long before I rely on ANYTHING Jah has concocted. James VanderKam is the world’s premier expert on the ancient language documents discovered in Qumran and he has just edited a translation of 1 Enoch which includes commentary. This translation was in the making for about 20 years. You just might consider at least LOOKING at a few of the more reliable versions before marrying yourself to the work of a charlatan:

        http://www.amazon.com/1-Enoch-The-Hermeneia-Translation/dp/0800699106/ref=pd_cp_b_0

        Here’s what you say is in Enoch 104:9

        “They (My words) shall neither change nor diminish (Mark 13:31; Matt. 5:17-19); but when all shall be written correctly; ALL, which from the first I have uttered concerning them shall concur (John 10:35; Sura 15:9).”

        I really can’t stand looking at those corrupt concordance references someone has added. But here is what I find written in Enoch 104:9

        “Do not be impious in your hearts, and do not lie, and do not alter the words of truth, nor say that the words of the Holy and Great One are lies, and do not praise your idols. For all your lies, and all your impiety, lead not to righteousness but to great sin.”

        (Note the refreshing absence of execrable confusion presumptuously inserted by a con artist.)

        “So there we have it. God has told us that there has to be perfect harmony between all of the Scriptures.”

        He said so elsewhere in HIS Words, Williams. He probably even said it in Enoch. But the point remains – HIS Scriptures are limited to HIS Word. The Koran is NOT His Word.

        I wrote:

        ‘ONE is worthy of worship, Williams. The Father and the Son are ONE. The Father and the Son ARE GOD. How many Gods is that? ONE.’

        You responded:

        “That, or something similar to it, is what is being taught in much of so-called organised “christianity”. But the fact Beef is that it does not make any sense!”

        The fact is, Williams, that Messiah SAYS SO HIMSELF:

        I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

        The fact is, Williams, that the WORD OF GOD says so:

        The Gospel of John, the First Epistle of John, the Epistles of Paul – who was the Lawgiver? Who spoke the words to Moses? Who is the BRIDEGROOM? Now you claim to know the Torah, Williams. And if the GOD of the Old Testament was the Husband of Israel – then HOW IS IT that the Bride, which is to come OUT of ISRAEL, will marry THE SON? That would be an abomination if The Father had been the first Husband. But the first Husband was The Son. The Son is the God of the Old Testament. And The Son says that He and the Father are ONE. His words, Williams – not mine.

        “Was Jesus praying to and talking to Himself all those times, when He was taking to and praying to Father?”

        I have no interest in entering into a theological debate with you. There are far more pressing matters for you to contend with before you immerse yourself into questions of doctrine.

        “Surely, we know better than that.”

        You presume. God has spoken.

        “Saying that Jesus Christ was the Son and at the same time He was also His Father…”

        Jesus Christ is NOT The Father. Jesus Christ is The Son.

        Now PAY CLOSE ATTENTION, WILLIAMS. Of John 10:30, you wrote:

        “Note – it says here “at one”. They are of one mind.”

        NO, WILLIAMS. That is NOT what the WORD OF GOD has recorded. Here then is the Greek:

        ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ Πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν.

        Take your pick of Manuscripts – Alexandrian, Sinaiaticus, Textus Receptus (Stephens or Scrivener), Byzantine Majority, Hort and Wescott – they ALL READ ALIKE.

        Break it down:

        ἐγὼ = I, me, my

        καὶ = and, also, even, indeed, but

        ὁ = the, this, that, these, etc.

        Πατὴρ = generator or male ancestor

        ἕν = one

        ἐσμεν = to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

        NOW NOTE that last word ἐσμεν (eimee,v {i-mee’}). That is the same Greek word used whenever Messiah referres to HIMSELF as I AM or He otherwise says I AM. ἐγὼ ἐσμεν EGO EIMEE. I AM. EIMEE does not mean ‘AT’. The verse does not contain the sense you have attempted to artificially import into it. The verse is INCONVENIENT for your doctrine (or Jah’s doctrine, or whoever) so you do what you do, which is to DISTORT your way out of it.

        What Messiah says in that verse is: I AND THE FATHER ONE AM.

        THOSE are the facts, Williams. Forget Jah.

        The Manuscripts ALL say one thing, Williams. You say something else. If you wish to believe SOME MAN who claims to know BETTER than what is written, then you just go ahead and do as you will. Do as you will, Williams; that shall be the whole of your law.

        “Because that way, now it all makes PERFECT sense, and also with the verse before it and all the other verses quoted.”

        No, Williams. THAT WAY it is convenient to your doctrine. To your gospel. And your gospel is SOME OTHER gospel. You are a distorter of the Word of God. His Word will not be distorted. You will be the one distorted in the end.

        “And you don’t even have to struggle with any strange mind-bending concepts to try and make it work – it just makes sense.”

        Only a fool would think immense theological concepts like ‘GODHEAD’ (θεῖος Theios) would be immediately simple or intuitive for Adam-kind to grasp.

        “He said that even HE did not consider Himself to be good, and that only His Father is Good – God.”

        Yes. That is what He said. Where does that include: Don’t worship The Son/The Word/The Lamb?

        “Beef, we would do well here to learn something of Christ’s Humility. Wouldn’t you agree?”

        Please don’t pester me with more platitudes, Williams. First disentangle yourself from bondage to confusion.

        • Williams

          Beef Supreme,

          You wrote: ‘The Father and the Son ARE GOD.’ and earlier on, you wrote ‘Is Jesus not GOD? He is God.’

          Please see what it says in God’s Law – book of Numbers:

          Numbers 23:19 God [is] not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

          God clearly tells us two things in this verse – 1. God is not a man. 2. Neither is He “the son of man”.

          Did Jesus know The Law? Of course He did. No-one knew God’s Law, better than Him.
          How did Jesus refer to Himself, as it has been recorded in the Gospels? He specifically chose to refer to Himself repeatedly as “the Son of Man” and He did it 81 Times.

          Jesus referring to Himself as the “Son of Man”:

          Matthew (30)
          8:20, 9:6, 10:23, 11:19, 12:8, 12:32, 12:40, 13:37, 13:41, 16:13, 16:27, 16:28, 17:9, 17:12, 17:22, 18:11, 19:28, 20:18, 20:28, 24:27, 24:30, 24:37, 24:39, 24:44, 25:13, 25:31, 26:2, 26:24, 26:45, 26:64

          Mark (14)
          2:10, 2:28, 8:31, 8:38, 9:9, 9:12, 9:31, 10:33, 10:45, 13:26. 13:34, 14:21, 14:41, 14:62,

          Luke (26)
          5:24, 6:4, 6:22, 7:34, 9:22, 9:26, 9:44, 9:56, 9:58, 11:30, 12:8, 12:10, 12:40, 17:22, 17:24, 17:26, 17:30, 18:8, 18:31, 19:10, 21:27, 21:36, 22:22, 22:48, 22:69, 24:7

          John (11)
          1:51, 3:13, 3:14, 5:27, 6:27, 6:53, 6:62, 8:19, 12:23, 12:34, 13:31

          So by doing this He made it absolutely clear to everyone, beyond ANY shadow of a doubt, that He was NOT claiming to be God.

          Please also see and consider these verses:

          Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, “I AM” hath sent me unto you.

          Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The “I AM” our God [is] one “I AM”:

          Daniel 7:13-14
          7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of Man came with the “Clouds” of heaven, AND came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before Him.
          7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

          So, here is undeniable proof from The Bible that Jesus is not God.

          Christ (the Being) himself (not Jesus the human) claims only to be the Son.

          So, please go and think about this. If you have any further thoughts on the issue, then I’ll be glad to hear from you.

          • BEEF SUPREME

            “Numbers 23:19 God [is] not a man…”

            Exodus 15:3

            The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

            “…neither the son of man…”

            John 28:20

            And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

            John 1:1

            In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS GOD.

            And that is to say nothing of the confusion in translation between the Greek words THAYOS (GOD) and HUIOS (SON) which look nearly IDENTICAL in abbreviated form. And the scribes almost ALWAYS abbreviated the forms. But according to the MAJORITY of the extant Manuscripts, John 1:18 reads thus:

            No man hath seen God (THEON) at any time; The MONOGENES THEOS (the Unique Begotten GOD) has revealed Him to us.

            Observe. John 1:18

            New International Version

            No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

            New Living Translation

            No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.

            English Standard Version

            No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

            Berean LITERAL Bible

            No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the one being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.

            International Standard Version

            No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father’s side, has revealed him.

            NET Bible

            No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.

            Aramaic Bible in Plain English

            No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.

            New American Standard 1977

            No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

            We can do this all day, Williams. Did you notice the word-for-word translation of Messiah’s statement in John 10:30?

            I AND THE FATHER ONE AM.

            Do you see that? I AM is the bookends. AND THE FATHER ONE is right there in the middle. That is exactly how the statement reads in the Manuscripts. That statement is rather an important one, I should think.

            “God clearly tells us two things in this verse – 1. God is not a man. 2. Neither is He “the son of man”.”

            See above. And take it up with the Word – not with me. Try not to argue yourself into atheism when the going gets rough.

            “So by doing this He made it absolutely clear to everyone, beyond ANY shadow of a doubt, that He was NOT claiming to be God.”

            So John was a liar? (…and the Word was God.) Thomas? (…my Lord and my God…) How about Messiah Himself, each and every time He identified Himself as I AM? That leaves only the majority of Manuscript evidence for you to contend with.

            “Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, “I AM” hath sent me unto you.”

            Right on, friend. But guess who identifies Himself as I AM elsewhere. And guess how many times He did so. Here’s a suggestion: download Bible software which lets you look up each and every occurrence of words or phrases like ‘I AM.’ Then closely examine each and every example wherein Messiah says those words. Now, I do not suggest that each and every time He uttered the phrase EGO EIMEE He was identifying Himself as God, but in several of the instances He was for certain. Why do you think the Jews took up stones to KILL HIM when He said to them – ‘Before Abraham was, I AM’

            ???

            Do you think the Jews were just angry because He was claiming to be very old? Think, Williams.

            “So, here (Daniel 7:13-14) is undeniable proof from The Bible that Jesus is not God.”

            Undeniable to WHOM, Williams? Only to those who DO NOT BELIEVE what is written. The Bible has plainly and accurately identified Christ as God, and has done so in a multitude of places. If you doubt that Christ is God, then you doubt the Word of God – it is that simple and there is no way to wiggle out of it. Christ is God, Williams. Whatever else you think you see in the texts is not saying anything to contradict that. There is not a single letter anywhere in the Bible which contradicts Messiah’s deity – which YOU yourself have claimed to believe on this very page. Do you change like the wind? Are you that unstable in your beliefs?

            “Christ (the Being) himself (not Jesus the human)…”

            I repudiate this. Let NO MAN ever render Messiah into pieces the way you are trying to do here. You do this because your doctrine REQUIRES IT. Your doctrine REQUIRES IT because your doctrine is wicked. It is wicked because it tries to mingle the profane with the holy. You will NEVER render Messiah into pieces, friend. It will never happen. Christ the Son of God and Jesus the Son of Man are the SAME. The Son of Man was His Name when He was here on Earth as, the Son of Man. There is ONE entity behind it all, Williams. Stop attempting to dissect that entity to suit your purposes.

            • Williams

              ‘It, what, contains the ‘True’ Koran? Never any version of the King James contained a Koran, Williams. Get your facts in order. Perhaps you mean the apocrypha.’

              I meant the King of kings’ Bible.

              ‘Admit that the King James Bible does INDEED have flaws within it, because it is a translation of MEN, from Manuscripts which THEMSELVES have certain flaws. Stop playing games with language and stop playing games with me.’

              I thought I did admit it, when clarifying what was originally meant. I did perhaps make an error in not quoting all of what should have been quoted in the first instance, to make it as clear as it should have been but my intention was never to try and deceive you at any point. The description I chose to use, was being quoted from JAH’s website. Being a partial quote, I now understand it did not give you the full picture of what was being meant by calling it the true Bible. So again, my mistake. The link was then provided so you could go and check out what it says if you so wished. Please let me make one thing clear and it is that I’m absolutely not trying to play any games with you my friend. We’ve ended up having quite a debate here, and if you remember you did challenge me earlier on and also chose to put me on the spot. Well, I’m not a runner. I have been striving to put forward only what I consider to be truthful information for consideration. Even though we have presented different points of view on certain issues, I have still been enjoying the conversation and the various points being raised as food for thought. In likewise manner, the post above this one, was put forward for consideration. I’m not trying to offend you or anyone, and am not into playing games. In the end, the Truth will be what it is, and hopefully we may end up knowing a bit more of it. Peace.

            • Williams

              King of kings’ Bible, John
              8:49 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am (ch. 17:5).

              King of kings’ Bible, John
              17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.
              17:4 I have glorified Thee on the earth: I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.
              17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

              He existed before Abraham was, and He was still in existence and never stopped existing, so what else should He have said, I was? Because He still is, so, speaking in the present tense, it makes sense that He would say, I am.

              Because not understanding the spiritual significance of what He was saying, the Jews probably misunderstood Him and thought He was claiming to be God. He never claimed to be God – He referred to Himself as the Son of Man. In fact, He frequently made a point of it to make this clear, that He was not claiming to be God. When others asked Him if He is the SON of God, He said to them, ‘thou sayest’.

            • BEEF SUPREME

              You wrote:

              “He existed before Abraham was, and He was still in existence and never stopped existing, so what else should He have said, I was?”

              That is PRECISELY what He would have said in the event that He was just very old – having been around even before Abraham. He would have said: Before Abraham was, I was. And that would have made perfect sense.

              But what He did was he bent time to do his bidding. He inserted the present tense into the past, demonstrating (amongst other things) that even time is His servant: Before Abraham WAS… I AM.

              That is present tense prior to past tense. That is multi-dimensional time-travel in a sentence. That is something no one but a Supreme Intellect would even have thought to say. If Messiah had never said it, no one would have. And it is also a Name.

              “…Because He still is, so, speaking in the present tense, it makes sense that He would say, I am.”

              Please, friend. That is not how language works and you know it. Is that what you say when you recall things you did long ago? Do you say, I AM, meaning past-tense, merely by virtue of the fact that you still now exist? Don’t be silly. There are rules for language just as surely as there are meanings for words. You play fast-and-loose with the rules when you make this ridiculous argument. Let Messiah be who He IS, Williams. Then you don’t have to suffer confusion and stress the way you are now suffering.

              “Because not understanding the spiritual significance of what He was saying, the Jews…”

              The Pharisees were masters of the Scriptures, Williams. Who are you to assume that they mistook His meaning one iota? Don’t you think Messiah is capable of making Himself perfectly understood to His hearers when He speaks to them? He was not speaking to the Jews in parables; He spoke in plain language directly in answer to their question to Him.

              “…the Jews probably misunderstood Him and thought He was claiming to be God.”

              The Jews understood Him perfectly – that He was indeed claiming to be God. You can interject confusion into the exchange if you insist, Williams. But you do so in error, and you do so against the obvious and natural narration of the passage.

              “He never claimed to be God…”

              You keep saying this over and over again as if it has some significance. As recorded for us in the Scriptures, Messiah never uttered the words ‘I AM GOD’ it is true. But it is also true that He never said He was the Christ. He asked the disciples who He was and they told Him. Did He correct them? Of course not. Thomas called Him God. Did He correct Thomas? Of course not. He referred to Himself only as the Son of Man. But the narrative of the Testament leaves no room for doubt on the point, as long as the reader is attentive and pays careful study to ALL that is said – not only to the words spoken by Messiah Himself.

              Messiah is ‘He who WAS, He who IS, and He who WILL BE.’ That is what the Book of Revelation records. Do you know what I AM THAT I AM (אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה) means in Hebrew? It means: I will be who I will be. It also means: I will become that which I will become. It also means: I was that which I am becoming. It also means: I was that which I became. It also means: I was that which I am… etc., etc. I hope you get the picture. It also means I AM THAT I AM.

              The Name יְהוָה (YHWH) means (approximately) in English: HE WHO IS. But guess what it also means: He who WAS and He who WILL BE. Are you following me, Williams? The KING is He who was, He who IS, and He who WILL BE. The KING, that is Jesus the Anointed, that is the SON, that is the WORD…

              …IS YHWH.

              Is it becoming clearer to you?

            • Williams

              Beef Supreme:

              ‘Exodus 15:3
              The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.’

              Yes. But if you go back and read verse 1, then you will see it says:

              15:1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the “I AM”

              after they had just crossed through the red sea and witnessed God drowning the Egyptians that had come after them behind them. So yes, they sang this in a song.

              But if you look at Numbers, here it is a slightly different situation:

              23:16 And the “I AM” met Balaam, and put a word in his mouth, and said, Go again unto Balak, and say thus.
              23:17 And when he came to him, behold, he stood by his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab with him. And Balak said unto him, What hath the “I AM” spoken?
              23:18 And he took up His parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor:
              23:19 God [is] not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

              Which do you think carries more weight? The song we sang, or the Word of The “I AM”?
              Just to point that out.

              Regarding the single instance of Thomas saying “my Lord and my God” – please consider the points brought to light in the following short article:

              http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kermitzarleyblog/2013/11/thomas-said-to-christ-my-lord-and-my-god-he-meant-gods-in-christ-to-which-we-should-nod/

              Support for the belief that Jesus is God, as the article points out, is based on few instances, while there is much more to support the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God.

              When the Jews wonted to stone Him, thinking He claimed to be God, He strived to correct them and denied it, saying He only claimed to be the Son of God.

              King of kings’ Bible
              John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
              10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?
              10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
              10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
              10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
              10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in Him.

              Do not try to dodge these facts. This is what the Scripture says.

    • Williams

      Beef Supreme: Reposting this at the bottom again, as our thread has regrown again substantially :-)

      ‘Exodus 15:3
      The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.’

      Yes. But if you go back and read verse 1, then you will see it says:

      15:1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the “I AM”

      after they had just crossed through the red sea and witnessed God drowning the Egyptians that had come after them behind them. So yes, they sang this in a song.

      But if you look at Numbers, here it is a slightly different situation:

      23:16 And the “I AM” met Balaam, and put a word in his mouth, and said, Go again unto Balak, and say thus.
      23:17 And when he came to him, behold, he stood by his burnt offering, and the princes of Moab with him. And Balak said unto him, What hath the “I AM” spoken?
      23:18 And he took up His parable, and said, Rise up, Balak, and hear; hearken unto me, thou son of Zippor:
      23:19 God [is] not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

      Which do you think carries more weight? The song we sang, or the Word of The “I AM”?
      Just to point that out.

      Regarding the single instance of Thomas saying “my Lord and my God” – please consider the points brought to light in the following short article:

      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kermitzarleyblog/2013/11/thomas-said-to-christ-my-lord-and-my-god-he-meant-gods-in-christ-to-which-we-should-nod/

      Support for the belief that Jesus is God, as the article points out, is based on few instances, while there is much more to support the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God.

      When the Jews wonted to stone Him, thinking He claimed to be God, He strived to correct them and denied it, saying He only claimed to be the Son of God.

      King of kings’ Bible
      John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
      10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are gods?
      10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the Word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken;
      10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
      10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
      10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in Him.

      Do not try to dodge these facts. This is what the Scripture says.

      Williams.

      • BEEF SUPREME

        Are you kidding me? Are you really going to tell me not to ‘dodge facts’ when you are the one consistently doing exactly that? Have you any ability to be consistent in your arguments, or will you simply continue to morph into whichever form you think will best slip around or under the impediments as you meet them?

        Earlier, YOU WROTE:

        “God clearly tells us two things in this verse – 1. God is not a man. 2. Neither is He “the son of man”.”

        Then I showed you from the WORD that simply because God said in one place He is not the Son of Man, does not mean what you are suggesting it means – which is that The Son is not God. I showed you from the WORD that God is ALSO referred to as a man, when He has elsewhere said He is NOT a man. This is not easy work, answering each and every one of your objections, so perhaps you could do a better job at paying attention to the specific particulars as YOU raise them and I answer them. Dodging facts, indeed.

        “Which do you think carries more weight? The song we sang, or the Word of The “I AM”? Just to point that out.”

        Did you just ask me to weigh one Word of God against another; one Scripture against another? To even ASK me such a thing is to betray an utter lack of understanding for what you have in your hands when you hold and consider the Word of God. Which verse do I take more seriously? Which verse carries more weight? Which verse is better than the other? Neither. They are both the Inspired Word of God. I will not make mincemeat out of the Scriptures the way you would make mincemeat out of the entity of Messiah. Stand fast in the Word, or do not. The choice is yours. You just made me angry with this preposterous question. You will stop at NOTHING to defend your indefensible stance. That is a sin, Williams. You are protecting vain traditions and in so doing, you are willing to do violence to the Word of God. Consider your ways.

        “Regarding the single instance of Thomas saying “my Lord and my God” – please consider the points brought to light in the following short article…”

        No. This is work enough contending with you right here. Argue FROM THE WORD or do not. If you have an argument to make, then make it. Do not attempt to direct me to the word of men. I have no interest. Make your own arguments.

        “Support for the belief that Jesus is God, as the article points out, is based on few instances, while there is much more to support the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God.”

        Jesus never claimed to be The Christ (that is, the Anointed) either, but He is. He also never claimed to be King, but He is. This incessant reliance on the fact that Scripture does not record Him as saying the words ‘I AM GOD’ is actually very childish. I have addressed this objection enough times by now that you should see the futility of the argument. It is a meaningless argument when we consider the facts as communicated to us in the volume of the Book.

        “When the Jews wonted to stone Him, thinking He claimed to be God, He strived to correct them and denied it, saying He only claimed to be the Son of God.”

        He denied what? At what point did He deny the charge, ‘that thou, being a man, makest thyself equal with God’? At NO TIME did He ever deny the charge, Williams. At NO TIME. This is yet another shining example of you looking for something in the verses, and, not seeing it there, just sallying forth anyway in the same direction as before, imagining yourself to have found what you went about looking for. How is one to contend reasonably with another behaving most unreasonably?

        Here is another inconvenient fact one of us is attempting to dodge: You already admitted on this very page that you do not deny the deity of Messiah. How then is it that you are so vehemently arguing against that deity now? You do remember, of course, that it was the FIRST of two questions I boasted you would not answer. But you DID answer. You said you do NOT deny the deity of Messiah. That means you do NOT deny that Messiah is God, Williams. Your answer surprised me at the time. But now I see my reservations were perfectly well-founded.

        When you argue against Messiah’s deity, you argue against the Word of God. It is that simple. Any success you have at dodging THAT fact will be fancied and fictional. Your satisfaction lies in your illusion. But your delusions are yours and not mine.

        [I will persist with this conversation if you choose to continue, but I do not believe anything I say to you from this point on will bear fruit of any kind. I believe you have become obstinate. I believe you have lowered your neck and will not be made to see what lies directly in front of your face. As I say, I will answer each of your objections, unless and until you become utterly incongruous in your arguments – which you are even now fast becoming.]

        • Williams

          Understood. He is who He said He is – The Son of God. And He is my Lord and King and I choose to follow Him and listen to and believe Him and what HE has said, not what others who are considering themselves to be wise have to say about Him and what He said.

          If you won’t listen to Him, and what He says, and think yourself to be so wise in your own sight that you can actually go on and say “it is besides the point” when it is pointed out to you that He has given us plain INSTRUCTIONS that we are expected to FOLLOW. Is it “besides the point” to you that if we call Him Lord, we are to OBEY His INSTRUCTIONS Jed? that He has specifically given to YOU in His Word? And then choose to follow the vain traditions of men instead, by obstinately sticking with YOUR false contradictory “christianity” doctrine or whatever it is you think you are doing that makes no sense to anyone with an open mind, which is exactly what you ARE doing and you end up leading people off the path which is to OBEY The Lord and do as He says – then WHY would ANYTHING I could ever possibly strive to point out to you from The Scriptures, make any more difference whatsoever? I thought and had really hoped that we were, at least on some level, starting to really communicate but now I begin to doubt it and just find all of this to be very saddening.

          Christ said, in

          Luke 6:46
          And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and not DO the things which I say?

          Why? Why Jed? Is it because it is “besides the point” because of all your intelectualising? Is it because you think that somehow YOU know better than The Lord?
          Only YOU can answer this question and answer it to yourself. If you say you have read the The Way home and you think nothing of it, then well, ok. That is your choice but I must say, I find it very sad and at this point, I don’t feel like I can say any more to you. What would be they point. It seems you have made up your mind and have completely closed it. If that is your stance then that is your choice and so be it.

          I gave you the link to that article in my previous post because I want t show you what it says and hoped you would check it out and just consider what it says. Then, by all means, make up your own mind. But you just dodge and avoid it and wont even LOOK? Is it because you are AFRAID that maybe it will show you something you dont WANT to see, because you are so sure and have already decided that YOU already know what the truth is? Don’t be so closed-minded! Just take a look. Stop being so afraid and LOOK and then you can ask Father to show you what it means. What have you got to lose?

          You DON’T have to try and make things any more complicated than they are in order to be able to understand them.

          The Lord’s Teachings are EXACT and The Lord says EXACTLY what he means and HE MEANS EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS.

          • BEEF SUPREME

            I have less than zero interest in what you find saddening. I have even less interest than that in your platitudes and rhetoric. And the fact that you would resort to preaching a saccharine sermon to me at this point belies your reckless state of mind. You cannot and will not attain success debating from the Scriptures, so you’ll switch tactics to something that makes you ‘feel’ more comfortable.

            Do as you will. But do it to someone else. My patience with you is at its end.

            “Christ said, in Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and not DO the things which I say?”

            So He did. And I did not give you permission to use my name on this board. I posted my name because it was a token of my sincerity in my salutation. Do not use my name on this board. Here, my name is BEEF SUPREME.

            “Why? Why Jed? Is it because it is “besides the point” because of all your intelectualising? Is it because you think that somehow YOU know better than The Lord?”

            I would ask you a question. I have no interest in your reply, so you can keep it to yourself. Ponder THIS. Meditate on THIS. Learn from THIS:

            How many KING OF KINGS do you say there are? And how many LORD OF LORDS do you say there are?

            In either event, if your answer is ANYTHING other than ONE, then you have no hope at all for wrangling any true meaning from the Scriptures, nor again from life itself. None. Now find out WHO identified Himself as THE KING OF KINGS in the Old Testament. Then cross-reference that with HE WHO IS identified by that Name in the New Testament. If there are TWO King of Kings and TWO Lord of Lords in your universe, then you live in an imaginary universe where there are no rules for language, or of any other kind, which are strictly observed at all times. You live, in that case, in a universe of chaos.

            “…you say you have read the The Way home and you think nothing of it…”

            You just lied. You see Williams, when you ADD to what is written or you ADD to what is said, that makes you a liar. I never said anything about thinking ‘nothing of’ your publication. Moreover, I didn’t say anything about it at all, but for the fact that I had read it. You are found a fabricator, Williams. You do the same thing when you are reading Scripture and you add to the words to make them say what you want them to say. See where that gets you.

            “I gave you the link to that article in my previous post…”

            And I gave you my answer about that. Make your own arguments. Stop relying on other men to do you thinking for you. Learn how to think for yourself. Learn how to search without help from other men. For if not, then you will only ever be led where they want to lead you. And save for divine intervention, there are no exceptions to that maxim. Why do you think the Scriptures are so ADAMANT on that very point? But you don’t listen to the Word. Why is that, Williams? You don’t think you can make a successful search on your own? You’re right, you can’t. None of us can. That’s why we need to be led by the Spirit of our KING alone.

            “But you just dodge and avoid it and wont even LOOK?”

            Asked and answered. Don’t flatter yourself by imagining me to be worried about your extra-curricular suggested reading. I just dealt head-on with everything you brought to the table. I’m not about to go searching for other material to contend with just because you point in a direction and say: LOOK! You bring it here, Williams. That’s what I asked you to do. Make your own arguments. That’s what you need to do. I can’t cross-examine your article the way I can cross-examine you. The article cannot be made to answer for its claims the way you can be made to answer, even when you do your best to avoid answering. Learn how to think without the crutch of other men’s efforts.

            “Is it because you are AFRAID that maybe it will show you something you dont WANT to see…”

            Yes, Williams. I am afraid of your reading material. It gives me cold sweats and makes me queasy just thinking about how I might have to answer a few difficult questions. Clearly, I have nothing to answer when folks ask me questions. Are you a fool? Have you resorted to this level of stupid tactic? Terrible form, old man. This is something a child would do. And as lacking in substance as your arguments are, I thought you at least operated at a level above this sort of juvenile sport.

            We are finished. But I thank you for your efforts. However, if you intend to continue marketing the vain musings of a charlatan, you will have to become more familiar with the material than you are at present, and that by a significant margin, if you hope to attain lasting success at selling your distortions of the true. The tactics you have resorted to in this thread are a very unhealthy indication, not only of who you are, but of what spirit you labor beneath. You are duplicitous. You are double-tongued. You contradict yourself and have nothing to say for yourself when you are called to account for your contradictions. You are puffed up with vanity and with vain musings and imaginings. You are a follower of MEN, Williams – not a follower of The KING. And if you think this Jah (fool that he is) is YOUR king, then perhaps he is. That would explain very aptly how it is you have come to hitch your wagon to the gospel of some OTHER Jesus.

            The last word is yours, so make it a very pleasing and entertaining one for yourself. That will be the extent of your reward.

            • Williams

              You have uttered MANY wrongful things here against JAH.

              As my final post, I’ll just quote something you wrote, when referring to Him.

              “I have no reason to reconsider. I know who he is.”

              I know WHO he is.

              Now, where have we heard that before.

              Mark
              1:23 And there was in their church a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,
              1:24 Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus “Nazir” (“Truth”)? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
              1:25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.
              1:26 And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.

              Luke
              4:33 And in the church there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
              4:34 Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, [thou] Jesus “Nazir” (“Truth”)? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
              4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

            • Mayhem

              Whats your point, Williams? Yes the unclean spirits know Jesus but that doesn’t mean that Beef Supreme can’t or doesn’t?

              That’s a poor argument, unless i’ve missed something, what are you on about?

      • Mayhem

        You may imagine, Williams, that you’re altogether clever dodging the flak by focusing on my very intentional use of the word “Islam”. Intentional as in bait, sucker.

        For your consideration, excuse please i mean humiliation, here is the same argument sourced from the manuscripts that you have claimed to be inerrant. Inerrant/infallible which is what “TRUE Koran” means as Mr Beef has already covered.

        The “True Koran” found in the “true bible” (King of Kings Bible) forbids Muslims to marry unbelieving (idolatrous) women – Sura 2/221 – and calls the people of the book (Christians) rebellious unbelievers – Sura 9/30- who worship their priests and monks (Idolatry/false gods) – Sura 9/31 – but still allow Muslims to marry women from among the people of the book (Christians). Therefore the “True Koran” contained in “the true Bible” contradicts itself.

        http://jahtruth.net/kofk-free/Bible/#koran

        And why am i not allowed to cut-n-paste from your Koran? I can access images of the ancient papyri manuscripts just as i can access the concordances, lexicons and interlinears just as i can access the Greek and Hebrew texts and all for the asking. Is it that you are attempting to avoid, or disallow, critical comparison?

        • CrowPie

          ” Is it that you are attempting to avoid, or disallow, critical comparison?”

          You know full well that is why you can’t copy/paste from his Koran. The disallowance of critical comparison by hook or crook is a time honored tradition in many areas of life, especially when it comes to those who wish to suppress or defend a particular belief.

          • Williams

            Crowpie:

            Saying that you can’t copy/paste from it is LIE, which was just proven when I copied and pasted from it and besides that, others have done too.

            Did you even check to see if this was really the case, before posting and saying what did, Crowpie? Or was it just negligence?

            Or did you just come on here to troll and be part of the false so-called “christianity” other gospel bandwagon, or whatever it is you think you are a part of and posted without even checking to see if the statement you were making was true?

            I don’t mean to be harsh Crowpie but you can’t just jump in at the end of a long discussion others were having and then post things without checking and then expect it then not to be pointed out.

            Unfortunately, I’ve got no more time for continuing this discussion and have work to do. You all do what you want. Just remember it is your life and the choice is yours.

            May Peace be upon you.

            Williams.

          • Mayhem

            I think you’re right, CrowPie, and just to be sure i clicked on the link, from my earlier post, and tried again to no avail. But as i say it’s not important and i’ll just type out the passages as required and hope i don’t mess it up by accident.

        • Williams

          Yes mr. clever nice try but your faulty logic of course won’t fly because it ALSO says in other places that amongst the people of the book (christians) some of them are of those who really believe. You can’t just cherry pick you have to read all of it.

          You have to THINK and also look at context and be sincere and ask to be shown. But I don’t see a point in trying to argue this with you either because no matter what is said, you will just try to find some way to distract from the issue and spin it around in a vain attempt to somehow try and “prove” your faulty logic which is not logic, but illogic. Don’t do it. I’m sorry but I have work to do as well and can’t afford to sit here typing out comments on BIN the entire day, trying to show things to those who do not want to understand.

          Your logo says “read a book”. So, I can only suggest that you do that and go read a Book. Please read the Book that has been recommended here – The Way home or face The Fire. – By JAH.

          But of course, I suspect you will most likely just disagree and then try to prove things using faulty logic, just like Beef Supreme did with the verses above about Moses and the children of Israel singing a song of praise to the “I AM” Who had just saved them from being in a war situation, and the other instance in Numbers where it says that it was The “I AM” that put the word in Balaam’s mouth.

          Beef Supreme:
          ‘Did you just ask me to weigh one Word of God against another; one Scripture against another?

          I asked you to THINK and read it in context and then use common sense and to try and point out that you cannot just pull verses out of context so you can then try to “prove” to yourself that which you think you already know.

          [It can't be both things at the same time. That is what is called a contradiction. It has to be one and that is why you have to be open minded and search for the truth of it and read things in context.]

          Trying to do what you did is NOT being honest and truthful, to others OR to yourself and is EXACTLY what all of the so-called “christians” always do and teach their followers to do to themselves to try and support their very shaky “belief system” that is based on lies and deceit. Don’t do it! Wake up.

          Do youself a favour and look at the pagan roots of so-called “christianity”. It is the “other gospel”. The disciples did NOT call themselves “christians”. They were followers of The Way.

          Just look. What have you got to lose?

          I was brought up as a so-called “Christian” too, and went to church and went through all of that and so I KNOW what it is like. I know how hard it is to find out you were misled and then having to FACE the truth and accept that you have been lied to and that what everyone around you believes and also want you to believe is WRONG but they don’t seem to care, or care enough and want to believe what they believe because they find it CONVENIENT and much EASIER that the Truth which means that sadly, they love NOT the Truth.

          You have to take your pick. The choice is yours.

          Ah, I see the trolls are starting to show up. Why is that not surprising.

          Peace be upon you,

          Williams.

          • BEEF SUPREME

            See above for my final reply to you, Williams.

        • Williams

          Mayhem, I can copy (not cut) and paste from it just fine. Beef Supreme it appears was able to do it too. Maybe it is something wrong with your keyboard?

          Here, I have just copied and pasted from it:

          King of kings’ Bible
          Sura 2:8. Of the people there are some who say: “We believe in the “I AM” and the Last Day;” but they do not (really) believe.
          2:9. Fain would they deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
          2:10. In their hearts is a disease; and God has increased their disease: and grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
          2:11. When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “Why, we only want to make peace!”
          2:12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

          • Mayhem

            I can copy-n-paste from myriad websites except yours but that is beside the point. Okay so you imagine you can toss that contradiction aside. Want to do another? There’s around 200 to choose from.

            And that’s before we look toward the nearly 50 contradictions the Qur’an has with Scripture or the more than 40 it has with the accepted historical, scientific and medical records.

            I’m telling you right now, Williams, i haven’t even started with your “TRUE Koran”.

            • Williams

              Mayhem,

              Please, read the information at this link on JAH’s website :- http://jahtruth.net/kofkad.htm

              There are many people who look for nothing but contradictions in the Bible, let alone the Koran, and they all claim to find them. But, it is just because that is what they want to see, and so that is then what they think they find, instead of the truth.

              Peace,

              Williams

            • Mayhem

              There are contradictions in the Qur’an but there are none in Scripture, Williams, and i’ve read enough of your website to know that it lacks truth…

              “You are duplicitous. You are double-tongued. You contradict yourself and have nothing to say for yourself when you are called to account for your contradictions. You are puffed up with vanity and with vain musings and imaginings. You are a follower of MEN, Williams – not a follower of The KING”

              … nuff said.

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