Christian Suppression of the Teaching of Jesus
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 14:44
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Those most responsible for the fact that the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of “resurrection” has, for all practical purposes, been completely exterminated from the face of the earth are, of course, the Christian popes, bishops, priests, ministers, theologians and evangelists (who, together, have extorted billions if not trillions of dollars from their hundreds of millions of terrified and gullible followers over the past several hundreds of years—in flagrant and specific violation of the command of Jesus in Chapter 10, verse 9 of the Gospel of Matthew, by the way; but they don’t care—with the doctrines of Paul and the metaphysical philosophers and theologians); and their Christian and secular accomplices in the media.
In other words, the secularists (and other nonbelievers in Christian theology) have no less of a hatred for the Teaching of Jesus on “the resurrection” than do the Christian religious officials and their followers. And it is precisely because of this working alliance between Christians and secularists (many of them atheists) that Christianity, Inc. has been able to survive at all. (That is, the dualistic theist/atheist paradigm is no less of an illusion than the dualistic liberal/conservative paradigm; both elements of which feign periodic, oh-so-entertaining, ‘tempest in a teapot’ ‘conflicts’; while, in reality, working hand in hand behind the scenes exclusively for the purpose of preserving their own wealth and power.)
First, there was the Pharisee Paul, who established the doctrinal foundation of Christian theology on the specific denial and contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of “resurrection”; ‘explaining’ (away) the crucifixion as a “vicarious atonement for the sins of men” rather than as, instead, a direct consequence of a specific Doctrinal conflict with the Pharisees.
And, within a few hundred years, the nonsensical, blood-thirsty, pagan metaphysical idolatry of Paul became the official religion of the Roman empire and its millions of citizen idolators; thus immediately transforming all Roman idolators into Christians, and all ‘heretic’ (or Jewish) opponents of the Roman church into enemies of the state; a marriage made in hell between the (“beast of the earth”) religious power and the (“beast of the sea”) political power that then resulted, over several hundreds of years, in the Crusades (against Albigensians, Jews and Muslims), the Inquisition (against other Christians and Jews), witch-burnings, the enslavement of the black peoples of Africa (and the slaughter of millions of others), Christian pogroms against Jews, and other atrocities all propagated by those (“who live by the sword will die by the sword”) claiming to be loyal followers of not Paul; but, instead—and incredibly—the ‘Prince of Peace’.
Fast forward, then—past several millions of human lives lost as a result of the vicious and heartless brutality of Christians adhering oh-so-sanctimoniously to the ‘religion of love’—to 2014…
And to a civilization which is on the very brink of annihilation because of—the witless arguments of the Christian religious officials and their gullible followers notwithstanding—its universal repudiation of the Doctrine taught by Jesus.
It is now no longer necessary for hundreds of millions of the Christian followers of Paul to torture to death or exterminate by the tens of thousands (as happened with the Albigensians) the very, very few who still understand and believe the Teaching of Jesus on “the resurrection” rather than the teaching of Paul.
Instead, the Christians and their accomplices have acquired absolute control over the flow of information.
Instead, the Truth about the Teaching of Jesus is now relentlessly censored by the academic, mainstream, ‘alternative’ and Internet media (such as Wikipedia).
Instead, there are hundreds, if not thousands of Christian followers of Paul, who, daily, flood Internet discussion groups with every conceivable denial and contradiction of, and distraction from the Doctrine taught by Jesus.
Instead, there are ‘legions’ of interpretations of the Book of Daniel and the Revelation of John on the Internet—or ‘legions’ of YouTube videos of the same or other Prophecies—demonstrating no Knowledge whatsoever of the Revelations, but comprising nothing more than Christian ‘Prophecy porn’; which, apparently, is no less addicting that common pornography; but, without which, many Christian televangelists would starve.
Instead, Hollywood churns out one movie about the life of Jesus after another, after another—the most recent being Son of God; all focusing on the most ‘photogenic’ events of his life; not one ever presenting, in detail, the reply to the Sadducees in which he specifically contradicts the foundational doctrine of Paul’s Christian theology; which, of course, would be too much of an offense to the millions upon millions of Christians who are willing to pay good money to have their fantasies cinematographically ‘validated’.
Instead, the Christian religious officials have decided that, in pursuit of the metaphysical idolatry of Paul, it is much more preferable for human civilization itself to be annihilated than it is to acknowledge that Jesus taught the Doctrine of “resurrection” as a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’.
Michael
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FALSE TEACHING ALERT
!!!!
This article denies the resurrection of Jesus and the atonement of sins by His sacrifice. It is a false gospel message. Let the preacher of this false message be accursed:
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
—Galatians 1:8-9
Wrong.
There is no denial of the resurrection of Jesus. There is a denial that Jesus taught the Egyptian ‘god of the dead’ *doctrine* of “resurrection”; that is, the raising of a dead body from the grave.
Read the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees in which such a doctrine is SPECIFICALLY repudiated by Jesus himself.
The Satanic doctrine of “vicarious atonement” resulted directly in several hundreds of years of Christian anti-Semitism, during which tens or hundreds of thousands of Jews were exterminated by the Christians of Europe, and the rise of Nazism.
It is a blood-thirsty doctrine expropriated from the pagan religions.
While condemning philosophy, Paul refuses to admit that the doctrine of a metaphysical ‘soul’ is pagan philosophy.
This ‘gospel’ of Paul is a flagrant contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus.
Michael
Wrong.
“This ‘gospel’ of Paul is a flagrant contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus.”
Find me one contradiction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
It takes a little while to read through all fourteen of Paul’s Letter, am123.
Give the poor fella a chance.
Welcome back BEEF!
Vacation was boring.
I got to watch you guys having all the fun.
“Vacation was boring.”
But you look relaxed and rejuvenated, ready to go with your new avatar!
Speaking of new avatars, I admit I can’t keep up with yours Omega!
Ah, I see you’re actually sporting the original look now Omega, that avatar I know!
Still trying to impose your Semitic (Racist) – Anti-Semitic (Anti-Racist) existence on others eh Pharisee.org?
“For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
Who is Jesus calling righteous here? The teachers of the law but NOT the Pharisees??
WELCOME BACK TO BIN, Beefy boy!
The one big difference is, one “Man” was god, and paul was just the Chief bottle Washer for his man “god”.
So, who’s “writing” is more important?
The only part of the Books of never Ending designed by man BABBLE worth reading are the Beatitudes, as “reported by Matthew and Luke”.
WHAT SAY YE, Oh BEEF SUPREME!
P.S. I like the new avatar!
Not so Caucasian barbarian looking! Now, a more crusader type white-skinned killer look (for Christ, of course!)!
I’ll regret this in about thirty three seconds, no doubt.
IO MEGA wrote:
“The only part of the Books of never Ending designed by man BABBLE worth reading are the Beatitudes, as “reported by Matthew and Luke”.”
You just cracked open the door, IO. If you admit that the ‘Beatitudes’ are good, then it can be demonstrated that the remainder of Scripture is good, in that Scripture nowhere contradicts anything spoken by the Master in the Beatitudes.
I will always discuss Scripture with you IO. You should be able to argue for your position like a sane and civilized man, no? In spite of and despite your hatred, you should be capable of adequately defending your position, no?
@Omega Files
The inspired New Testament consists of Jesus’ words only. Paul’s status is questioned. First, Paul never made a valid prophecy. Second, Paul must be rejected under Deuteronomy 13:5 because he taught the Law of Moses was nullified (unlike Jesus who said in Matthew 5:17-19 that it continues, and that the greatest in the kingdom would teach its principles). Lastly, Jesus most likely intended we understand Paul was the person in Revelation 2:2 whom the Ephesians put on trial and proved was a false apostle. This Ephesus trial is alluded to in Acts chapter 19 where after 3 months of Paul teaching at the Ephesus congregation, the same Ephesus assembly expelled Paul. Paul refers to his trial in Ephesus several times as well, referring to “Asia” — the region of which Ephesus was the capital.
@Michael
You consider the soul to be a phaasaic evil but don’t think past lives are? How did that past life ‘tavel’?
@Extremum Spiritum News
What Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 was:
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, UNTIL all be fulfilled.
Paul considered them to have BEEN fulfilled by Christ’s resurrection. So it was Jesus who made a prediction of when the law WOULD die.
Paul never taught that the Law was nullified.
This misunderstanding arises from trying to read Paul’s Letters at less than a 10th grade comprehension level — and I’m not saying this to be flippant or snide.
Once Paul’s words are parsed and studied, it becomes clear that he never once taught against the Law.
Omega files,
There is NO historical record—either in Josephus or anywhere else—of large numbers of people ‘coming out of their graves’ at the time of the crucifixion of Jesus. So, do Christians even understand the meaning of Chapter 27, verse 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew?
OF COURSE NOT.
Those words describe a Revelation of which the Christians have no Knowledge—a Revelation including the revelation of the memories of previous lives—received by many of the closest followers of Jesus at the time of the crucifixion, and echoing Chapter 26, verse 19 of the Book of Isaiah; also referred to in the Treatise On the Resurrection, found at Nag Hammadi, as the “psychic” resurrection.
This is also what Jesus refers to, in his reply to the Sadducees, as the “angels in heaven”; memories received by “…those who are judged worthy of a place in the other world and in the resurrection from the dead…” (Chapter 20, verse 35 of the Gospel of Luke)
Meanwhile, Paul specifically DENIES the reality of the memories of previous lives in Chapter 2, verse 18 of 2 Timothy: “…the men who have gone right away from the truth and claim that the resurrection has already taken place.”
And, while Paul’s Pharisaical denial of the Doctrine of “resurrection” taught by Jesus resulted in the doctrine of “vicarious atonement”, the deification of Jesus, and the demonization of “the Jews”—and, as such, is the doctrinal origin of Christian anti-Semitism—the historical origin of Christian anti-Semitism was the adoption of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire; resulting in “the Jews” becoming, simultaneously, enemies of the Roman church as well as the state.
And what are the longer term consequences of Paul’s Satanic contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus on “the resurrection”?
Read Massacre at Montsegur, authored by Green in 1954, which explains that tens of thousands of Albigensians were exterminated by agents of the Roman church for teaching the same Doctrine of “resurrection” that Jesus taught.
So, quite simply, like the Sadducees (and the Pharisees), the Christian followers of Paul are “…wrong, understanding neither the Scriptures nor the Power of God.” (Chapter 22, verse 29 of the Gospel of Matthew) because of their denial of the Doctrine of “resurrection” as a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’.
Michael
I will add this if I may though a few will flick they’re fingers at it.
Long before the stories about “Paul”, the Jewish historian Josephus wrote of a terrifying sea journey he experienced on his way to Rome. His story turns up again in precise detail in the New Testament, claiming to be an account of what happened to “Paul”.
Josephus Sails to Rome
Accordingly I came to Rome, though it were through a great number of hazards by sea; for, as our ship was drowned in the Adriatic Sea, we that were in it, being about six hundred in number,(5) swam for our lives all the night; when upon the first appearance of the day, and upon our sight of a ship of Cyrene, I and some others, eighty in all, by God’s providence prevented the rest, and were taken up into the other ship.
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/autobiog.html
Paul Sails for Rome
Paul, kept them from their purpose; and commanded that they which could swim should cast themselves first into the sea, and get to land: 44And the rest, some on boards, and some on broken pieces of the ship. And so it came to pass, that they escaped all safe to land.
http://biblehub.com/kjv/acts/27.htm
Reuchlin contends that Arius Piso was the real name of the “Hebrew” historian known as Josephus. This would certainly explain why a “Hebrew” like Josephus, who claimed to have fought the Romans, lived in Rome for 30 years while he wrote books on Jewish history and married into Roman aristocracy. Reuchlin says that “St Paul” was manufactured in the same way as Jesus and it’s interesting that “Paul’s” hazardous sea journey was a repeat of what Josephus said happened to him. Paul was also portrayed as a Hebrew who became a Roman citizen and Josephus said the same of himself.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/matrix/matrix11.htm
(Sigh)
There are, no doubt, tens of THOUSANDS of subjects about the origin of Christianity whose fundamental purpose is to DISTRACT people from the Doctrine for which Jesus was murdered.
In the final analysis, it makes NO difference if Paul was Josephus or not; though I very seriously doubt it.
But who cares?
The fundamental Truth is that Paul CONTRADICTED the Teaching of Jesus, even if his name was Josephus. And Christians are followers of Paul, even if his name was Josephus, rather than Jesus.
Michael
Look.
If Paul was Josephus, why did he not cite Chapter 27, verses 52-53 as EVIDENCE for the doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave?
If the resurrection of *Jesus* was to be cited as such ‘evidence’, why not these other purported physical resurrections?
Let the Christians try to make some sense out of that one.
Michael
The Pisos were bloodline and were related to the King Herod featured in the Gospel story. As bloodline Roman aristocrats, they would have been initiates of the Mystery religions and the symbolic stories that were used to manufacture “Jesus” and his life. The Pisos claimed descent from the founders of Rome, the “wolf-suckled” Remus and Romulus.
Reuchlin details the codes he says were used in the Gospel stories by the Pisos and their accomplice, the Roman writer and statesman, Pliny the Younger. The head of the family, Lucius Calpurnius, who was married to the great granddaughter of Herod, was a close associate of the famous Roman writer, Seneca. Both were killed by the Emperor Nero in the year AD65, Reuchlin says. He suggests that the mythical stories of St Peter and St Paul being killed by Nero in Rome were inspired by these events.
Reuchlin says that Lucius Calpurnius wrote his “Ur Marcus”, the first version of the Gospel of Mark, in about AD60 and the others followed when the Pisos became very close to the Roman leadership. After his father’s death, Arius Piso, who used many names, including Cestius Gallus, became governor of Syria and took command of the Roman army in Judea. He was involved in the Judean revolt in AD66, which Vespasian was sent to quell. Two years later Nero was killed by a Piso agent, according to Reuchlin, and Vespasian became Emperor of Rome with vital backing from the Piso clan. It was Vespasian who ordered the sacking of Jerusalem and stole the temple “treasures”, including the Ark of the Covenant, whatever that was. Vespasian, as a Roman emperor, was an Illuminati frontman.
According to Reuchlin’s book, Arius Calpurnius Piso wrote three of the Gospels in the following order: the Gospel of Matthew (AD70-75); the updated Mark (75-80); and, with the help of Pliny the Younger, the updated Luke (85-90); He says that The Gospel of John was the work of Arius’s son, Justus, and followed in 105.
Reuchlin is certainly correct when he says that “Jesus” was a composite figure, and the stories include elements of the tales of Joseph in Egypt and other Old Testament characters, plus some writings from the Hebrew-Egyptian Essenes, the characteristics of various pagan gods and Balder of the serpent cult. He also says that the Pisos made changes and additions to some Old Testament texts and wrote most of the 14 Old Testament books known as the Apocrypha.
Reuchlin contends that Arius Piso was the real name of the “Hebrew” historian known as Josephus.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biggestsecret/matrix/matrix11.htm
Some people think that St. Peter was actually Peter Magus and of course there is also that stuff about the legionnairies awarding Jesus the crown of thorns
But as for the crown of grass, it was never conferred except at a crisis of extreme desperation, never voted except by the acclamation of the whole army, and never to any one but to him who had been its preserver. Other crowns were awarded by the generals to the soldiers, this alone by the soldiers, and to the general. This crown is known also as the “obsidional” crown, from the circumstance of a beleaguered army being delivered, and so preserved from fearful disaster. If we are to regard as a glorious and a hallowed reward the civic crown, presented for preserving the life of a single citizen, and him, perhaps, of the very humblest rank, what, pray, ought to be thought of a whole army being saved, and indebted for its preservation to the valour of a single individual?
@Michael
Your Semitic Anti-Semitic racism has no power here.
Simon (PATER) Magus NOT Simon (Peter) Magus
Based on the injunction of Jesus:
“These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matt. 10:5-6).”
Would Simon (Peter) being in Rome count as being ‘in the way’ of the gentiles? That is a different thing than being told not to enter any city of the Samaitans.
Truthseeker.
Why don’t you go back to Mike Clintons article and finish what you started. Don’t run away with your tail between your legs when you’ve been proven wrong to spitfire the same nonsense on another article.
I take that back, I see that you have. We must live in two very different time zones.
Omega Files wrote:
Truthseeker.
Why don’t you go back to Mike Clintons article and finish what you started. Don’t run away with your tail between your legs when you’ve been proven wrong to spitfire the same nonsense on another article.End Quote
It seems that article has disappeared. After you post in an article is there away to go back to it besides saving the page into favorites. I have not run away the articles disappear off the page. Also what Reuchlin states about the Pisos makes more sense to be then believing what is written in the Babble I mean Bible. Teh New Testament sounds very much like a play.
Omega Files
I’m actually on the other side of the world from you if you are in the US. I do a lot of travel on my quest for knowledge.
My mistake. I meant Truthseeker, not Mike. Truthseeker made that article in preparation for Mike’s next article so I got confused.
To go back to the article you would have to go to the search bar and search for truthseekers bio page. No big deal though. I spent most of the time trying to cover from a few mistakes that I made. I realize that I have no evidence linking you to admitting being a follower of Saturn. So I stand corrected and apologize for that assumption.
/spirit/2014/02/is-christmas-a-christian-holy-day-or-is-it-100-pagan-2484986.html
“I’m actually on the other side of the world from you if you are in the US. I do a lot of travel on my quest for knowledge.”
You are very lucky to have the opportunity to live such a life. May I ask what you do?
Omega Files
If you open your mind a bit you can disect what Reuchlin wrote here in his pamplet. He breaks down all the codes and numbers. It is in PDF form:
The PDF is at this link:
The True Authorship of The New Testament http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_sociopol_piso.htm#top
Excerpt:
The Jesus figure which Piso creates is a composite. He inserts redrawn elements from Joseph in Egypt and other Jews of the Bible; elements from Essenic writings; and characteristics of various pagan gods.
Piso is known publicly in history only under his pen name of Flavius Josephus. He does not appear as Arius Calpurnius Piso. His true identity is decipherable only by reconstruction. With his father’s death at Nero’s hands in 65, the Pisos vanish from public Roman history. For the next 73 years they are busy writing the NT and tightening their power over the known world; but they appear only under alias names. They reappear as a family with Piso’s grandson Antoninus as emperor in 138, and are thereafter known chiefly as the Antonines–but not as the Pisos!
600 stood for Christ,300 stood for the Cross, and 60 stood for the name Calpurnius Piso. Then he inserted into the Gospel of Mark after the year 75 the fallen commander of Masada, Eliezer ben Yair3. He makes him Jairus, in Mark 5.22. Then he puts him into Luke 8.41 as Lazarus. He was teasing that he, Piso, because his alter ego creation was Jesus, could heal and raise from the dead, whereas the Jews had been forced by him to perish at Masada.
More vengeance was wrought by Piso by his picturing the Jews, in the successive gospels, as increasingly evil. In Matthew chapter 23, Jesus repeatedly calls the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites and even vipers–but does not include the people. In Matthew 3.7, also, the Pharisees and Sadducees are called offspring of vipers—this time by John the Baptist. But by the time of Luke 3.7, it is not merely the leaders but the crowds whom John the Baptist calls the offspring of vipers. And in Acts 23.12 (written 96-100) it is
“the Jews” (and not merely the Pharisees or Sadducees) who form conspiracy to kill Paul. By the time of the Gospel of John (year 105), the author (Piso’s son, Justus) has Jesus tell the Jews who challenge him, “You are of (your)father devil…’(John 8.44)’
Oh my yea I think I got confused and you were talking to Truthseeker and not me.LOL!
Sorry for the confusion.LOL!!
To put it in short I am a Contractor. I was also in the military a few years ago. I got tired of living under Socialism so I got out.lol! I have done a lot of travel in the last 13 years and I am ready to go home. And let me tell you going through the airport is horrible. After this I will never fly again. I don’t know how many times I got x-rayed by the TSA death machine.
“I don’t know how many times I got x-rayed by the TSA death machine”
I’m with ya. I hate flying. It’s funny, my Father is ‘Federal Air Marshal – working for the dark side. He’s as naive as they come, but, what can you do?
I’m sure it will be great to settle down.
Well, I’ts bedtime on this side of the world, so I’ll see you around on the battle field. Also, I’ll look closely at that last post of yours in the A.M.
buona notte
omega files
please add 007 to T/S, I have no connection what so ever. separate us
Understandable.
My apologies.
Omeag files,
“Find me one contradiction”
You’ve got to be KIDDING me. I don’t have the time to point out all of the contradictions.
His contradiction of the Doctrine of “resurrection” is quite sufficient to transform his teaching into the doctrines of Satan, doctrines that resulted quite directly in the rise of Nazism.
“By their fruits you will know them.”
EVER read that statement of Jesus?
Paul was the doctrinal SOURCE of Christian anti-Semitism, assisted by Constantine to result in several centuries of Christian anti-Semitism.
Michael
Omega Files wrote:
“Find me ONE contradiction”
Michael responded:
“I don’t have the time to point out ALL of the contradictions.”
That certainly explains a lot, doesn’t it? Michael, if you are having difficulty discerning the meaning of a four-word phrase like the one Omega wrote for you, how on GOD’S GOOD EARTH do you expect anyone to believe you have managed to wrangle any meaningful insight from Paul’s Letters?
If you are having trouble comprehending the difference between elementary concepts like “ONE” and “ALL”, then you really should still be engrossed in your studies, rather than trying to engage in debate or attempting to sway the opinions of others.
Let’s try it one more time: Please offer ONE (singular) example of a contradiction between the teachings of Paul and the teachings of Jesus.
Please be as specific as you can.
Do you understand English or not?
In Chapter 2, verse 18 of 2 Timothy, Paul specifically CONTRADICTS the reality of the memories of previous lives, a revelation received by some of the followers of Jesus and figuratively described in Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew.
Jesus taught “the resurrection” as the revelation of the memories of previous lives.
Paul taught “the resurrection” as the Egyptian ‘god of the dead’ DOCTRINE of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave.
If you cannot recognize that as a contradiction…
I can’t help you.
Seriously.
As stated by Daniel, “These words will remains secret and sealed until the time of the End…the wicked will never understand; the wise will understand.”
Michael
This:
Matthew 27
52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.…
is a figurative reference to reincarnation? This is not reincarnation and it is not Egyptian. Figurative maybe. Boris Karloff yes. But I don’t think it’s Egyptian.
Michael wrote:
“In Chapter 2, verse 18 of 2 Timothy, Paul specifically CONTRADICTS the reality of the memories of previous lives, a revelation received by some of the followers of Jesus and figuratively described in Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew.”
Let’s see whether any sense can be made of your argument:
2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that THE resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Contrasted with:
Matthew 27:52-53
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after HIS resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Uh-oh. Already we see another one of these distinctions you seem to be having a problem with, Michael. Here we have:
THE Resurrection
vs.
HIS Resurrection
And surely even you will admit that when the authors of the New Testament documents, most assuredly including the Apostle Paul, have taken the time to record a specific distinction like ‘THE’ as opposed to ‘HIS’, the distinction exists for a reason. And yet, you seem to have no problem at all erasing the distinction, substituting the one for the other like interchangeable parts, and then formulating your entire doctrine around the switch. That is a recipe for disastrous exegesis, my friend. That is how erroneous doctrine is born.
You wrote:
“Jesus taught “the resurrection” as the revelation of the memories of previous lives.”
Stop right there. How can you make such a suggestion and offer nothing by way of supporting reference material? And why have you wrapped ‘the resurrection’ in quotation marks? I believe I know the answer to both of these questions, but I would much prefer having them answered by you. And if you would care to answer the questions, then perhaps you wouldn’t mind pointing to something in Scripture (capital ‘S’ Scripture) which corroborates your above claim about Jesus’ teaching.
“Paul taught “the resurrection” as the Egyptian ‘god of the dead’ DOCTRINE of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave.”
It seems to be your contention that we can find nothing in the Old Testament by way of a confirming witness for the concept of bodily, physical, resurrection. Is this a fair assessment of your stance? Yet you yourself admit the phenomenon of bodily resurrection is recorded in elsewhere in the New Testament, as aptly demonstrated by the verses you highlighted above (Matthew 27:52-53). Do you deny the existence of any such confirming witness in the Old Testament?
“If you cannot recognize that as a contradiction… I can’t help you.”
Thus far, you have not managed to successfully point to a single contradiction. It is my hope that you will manage to do so once you provide additional clarity by addressing these very important questions.
Next you wrote:
“As stated by Daniel, “These words will remains secret and sealed until the time of the End…the wicked will never understand; the wise will understand.””
And here you seem to be insinuating that you are wise. If you are wise, then you will have no problems at all in answering the questions I have asked you. Furthermore, if you are wise, you will have the patience needed to help the ‘wicked’ to understand.
Oh, by the way, I would also suggest that the reader of this note also read the fractal Prophecies in Chapter 11, verses 40-45 of the Book of Daniel, in which the United States and its allies are represented by the “king of the South” and Russia and its allies are represented by the “king of the North”.
And, although I have no knowledge that the current conflict over the Ukraine is the SPECIFIC iteration of the fractal Prophecy that brings about the “time of trouble”–Syria and/or Iran is another possibility–it is certainly not out of the question.
Michael (interestingly enough)
STILL completely and rantingly failing to explain to anyone what this doctrine of ‘rebirth’ is.
Mirabolin,
The first issue here is to demonstrate THAT Jesus taught a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’, which was then contradicted by Paul in the fundamental doctrine of Christian theology.
What that Doctrine was, why it was important, and what its implications were upon Jewish theology are subjects that were explained in an oral Teaching by Jesus to his followers.
Some of this is explained in the Treatise On the Resurrection, the Gospel of Thomas, and other documents found at Nag Hammadi, as well as in the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
You can read them for yourself.
It’s not my job to spoon feed you
Michael
Michael,
Please forgive me for barging in on yet another portion of this conversation directly addressed to the others. You are familiar with the facts of this matter, are you not? By facts I mean this: We are here speaking of TWO categories of ancient texts.
FIRST there are the Gospel accounts and Letters which were codified and canonized by the Roman authorities. These texts were NOT intended to proliferate into the hands of the ‘profane’ – into the hands of the ‘catechumens’ the ‘cattle’ the ‘goyim’. In short, the New Testament Scriptures, as they exist today, were not intended by Rome to be shared with us. The Roman authorities eventually lost containment and had to alter their plans (an entirely separate topic, but one which is crucially linked to the topic presently before us).
SECOND there are the ‘Gnostic’ or ‘Occult’ or ‘Esoteric’ texts which are related to the first group only in that they address some of the same subject material and make references to certain of the same individuals.
These two categories are distinct. These two categories are WILDLY contradictory, though this may not be obviously upon preliminary examination. But upon a more thorough examination of the categories, it becomes clear that not only are they contradictory, but they are wholly at ENMITY one with the other.
Therefore, it should come as no surprise that you have found information contained in the ‘Gnostic’ writings which does not agree with what we find in the New Testament Gospels. But the question then becomes: WHY are you so willing to place your faith in the legitimacy of the Gnostic writings over and above what you find written in Scripture? Why have you decided to make the Gnostic writings your greater source for authority? You are at least aware of the argument which posits that the Gnostic writings were generated by highly dubious sources, are you not? You have at least HEARD of the argument that the Gnostic writings were authored by the ENEMIES of Scripture themselves, haven’t you? Therefore, your decision to favor the Gnostic texts over Scripture should not have been made whimsically or light-heartedly. Your decision must have been based on substance.
If you have managed to rule out the possibility, to your own satisfaction, that the Gnostic texts are not inimical to the Gospel accounts; or that the Gnostic texts should be valued more highly than the Gospel accounts, I would much appreciate it if you would explain to us here how it is you have managed to reach such a conclusion.
@Michael
Well, no, it would never be your mentalities job to spoonfeed anyone. Let me daw you a picture then
The World accoding to (Wannabe Rabbi) Michael:
The reason why any people who are not Jewish are guilty of anything is because they are anti-semitic. If we stopped such people resisting their anti-semitism then they would accept it submissively. Towards this much to be hoped for end we should teach people that Jesus wanted them to recognize that their anti-semitic (anti-racist) existence will ONLY apply to some of the lifetimes that they and their ‘families’ will have to live through as occassionally (if the are not evil) they will be reborn into the world as a Jew and then it will be the turn of many of those who are Jewish at the moment (the evil ones) to be anti-semitic along with those who were wicked anti-semites in their previous past lives.
Well at least you show Muricans like DanielJohnLee and all his fellow Muican and Muican like gaytheist anti-racists themselves in the mirror if nothing else!!
And I assume that when you say God of the Dead doctrine you are referring to Osiris. That was a story not a doctrine. Ancient Egyptians did not believe that people would bodily rise from the grave. Only that their souls would in part. The difference between the ancient Egyptians and modern Abrahamic religions is that the Ancient Egyptians thought that only part of the soul would pass into the afterlife and part of it would remain with the body (in the memory of the living).
You claim that this is an anti-semitic desecration of the Torah? That if the priests would offer food offerings to those who are in heaven (or bring them flowers) then that (of all the things that could be) is an Anti-Semitic act of Nazism?
To whom were Isaelite priests offering the animals they slaughtered? What is this all about: The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.????
You are just a Semitic (racist) – Anti-Semitic (Anti-Racist) scrabbling around for ANYTHING you can find that you think will rationalize your need to get other people to be this too.
“Racist”?
The Truth of the matter is that the Doctrine of “resurrection” taught by Jesus strikes at the very root of Jewish supremacy or racism; which is only ONE of the reasons why such a Doctrine posed such a THREAT to the Jewish priesthood.
Why?
Because Jews are also ‘raised from the dead’ as Gentiles and Gentiles are also ‘raised from the dead’ as Jews; in which context, the Doctrine of the “Chosen people” has a COMPLETELY different meaning than the meaning attributed to it by the Jewish supremacists and Zionists (Sadducees).
In any case, you appear to be one of those who, according to Daniel, “..will never understand”.
Have a nice day.
Michael
@Michael
I stand confirmed.
You are just bitching about ‘your’ semitic races relegating you to an anti-semitic (anti-racist) status. Jesus as God out, Jews as Gods in (in this life – the only one you are going to have – at least).
People are PERSONS. A person is NOT ‘raised from the dead’ (why are you putting it this way if it is reincanation that you believe in?) as me or you or anyone else!
And even if reincarnation in the context of those who are elect and those who ae not elect theoretically occured how does that strike at supremacy? Why were people born in this life as ‘gods chosen people’ and othes not unless the first lot are being rewarded and the others punished?
And why would I WANT to strike at the very root of racism? For anti-racism’s sake? For racial abuses sake?!
“the Doctrine of “resurrection” taught by Jesus strikes at the very root of Jewish supremacy or racism”
You can’t possibly claim an understanding of the Gospel after saying this.
The simple facts that support and carry our faith are these: Yahushua was publically tried in Court because of His claim of Deity and His ability to claim Deity – because His miracles were on display everywhere for all to see. He lived in such a perfect and complete way so that we could not possibly doubt His existence or His power; we cannot doubt His claim of Deity. Messiah then entered into the lives of so many of us, transforming the ‘born again’ believers from the sinners that we used to be by granting us forgiveness for all that we have done and will continue to do. Additionally, the Messiah sends rescue missions for those who are without faith, but are sincerely seeking and wanting to find the faith to truly believe – wanting to see reality. Thus, it is no coincidence that the Bible records how one of the disciples fell into a faithless predicament of doubt. Yet the heart of Thomas remained true to his faith, and Messiah literally showed up to rescue Thomas:
John 20:25: “The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
Thomas has forever earned the moniker ‘doubting Thomas’, though he only upheld his doubt for eight days until the Messiah returned to His disciples at just the right time to say:
John 20:27-29: “Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
Take careful consideration of how Thomas was invited to examine the Messiah. Jesus spoke to him and said, in essence, ‘here is the evidence of my death, and my Resurrection’. Upon seeing such, Thomas proclaimed, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus said something even more compelling. He told Thomas, even though Thomas believed because of the evidence, ‘Blessed are those who have not seen yet have believed’ (v.29). Here, we see that Thomas missed out on a blessing because he had doubt and needed to have a closer, more intimate look at the evidence that was all around him. Thomas was intended to be our example that some people simply need to see more evidence than others. However, the Bible never claims, nor does the evidence indicate, that the evidence is not and has not been provided. Messiah provided what Thomas needed; He simply reserves a greater blessing for the pure and innocent of faith. By seeing the evidence up close and personal, Thomas moved to a place where to doubt God, to doubt the Messiah, would have taken a defiant act of disobedience before God. Thomas moved into the world of evidence, in which everything around him – because he then knew the absolute Truth – testified to the Deity of Yahushua. Thomas, and all those who are like him, could never again claim ignorance before God and say: ‘If only…’, and neither will you.
Those very same twelve disciples who hid in fear for their lives when the Messiah was crucified had a radical change in perspective. History and the Word would tell us that these men who were cowards before, during, and immediately after Messiah’s crucifixion, suddenly became courageous, powerful public orators for the His cause. There is only one possible event that could have happened after the crucifixion that would explain the transformation of these cowards into audacious spokesmen for the written Word. According to their own testimony, they saw, with their own eyes, the resurrection of the Messiah – the Holy Spirit empowered them on the Day of Pentecost. He entered into their lives and made them new creations because of their belief in Him – it was the very event that Jesus had said would happen. Each one of them, except for John, were eventually executed for their testimony of the Messiah. They were martyred because they would not denounce what they had seen with their own eyes. This, of course, is a blatant contradiction to what these same men did directly after the crucifixion.
Beef Supreme,
The short answer is that I have received myself the Revelation of “the resurrection”; which includes the Revelation of the Memory of Creation (Chapter 2, verse 7 of Genesis) and the revelation of the memories of previous lives (with a memory of having been killed as an Albigensian).
Before I had received that Revelation, the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees made NO conversational or logical sense to me whatsoever.
After I had received that Revelation, it became a matter of simply RECOGNITION of what he was talking about: 1) he specifically denied the ‘god of the dead’ doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave; 2) he described the memories of previous lives as the “angels in heaven”; and 3) he set such a doctrine in direct opposition to the God of the living, who raises people from the dead in accordance with ‘rebirth’.
If the Gnostic Gospels had NEVER been written, I would STILL have this understanding of the Doctrine of “resurrection”.
In the Treatise On the Resurrection, there is a physical, a psychic and a spiritual resurrection that are referred to; that is, 1) physical rebirth; 2) the memories of previous lives; and, 3) the Revelation of the non-dualistic consciousness of man at the moment of Creation, prior to ‘the Fall’ into the dualistic consciousness.
I merely use the reply of Jesus in Matthew and Luke and the Gnostic texts as REFERENCES for the Knowledge that was Revealed to me directly through both the Revelation of the “resurrection” and the Vision of the “Son of man”, referred to in the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls as the “Vision of Knowledge”.
In any case, I don’t mind you ‘interfering’ in the discussion at all.
Michael
Michael
There is no need for you to sign your name at the bottom of everything that you post as if you are some authority figure. We are all very capable of reading it your account name. And fortunately for us, once we see the first ‘Michael’ we can make the conscious decision to not even waste our time reading what you wrote down until we get to the second ‘Michael’.
“I merely use the reply of Jesus in Matthew and Luke and the Gnostic texts as REFERENCES for the Knowledge that was Revealed to me directly through both the Revelation of the “resurrection” and the Vision of the “Son of man”, referred to in the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls as the “Vision of Knowledge”.”
Who revealed this to you? Was it Messiah himself? Or was it some occult philosopher?
I’ve already proven you wrong before so if I’m going to waste my time with you then I expect you to stick around this time. Don’t run away again when you get corned and you don’t have one of your cut-and-paste replies to respond with. You throw out one outlandish claim after another and consume the comment boards with your obsessive rants. You must be new here. I seriously doubt most of the regulars even read what you have to say anymore. Your pseudo-religion is almost so ridiculous that I don’t know where to start. You can’t possibly try to mingle occult dogmas with the Gospel. It has become clear to us that you treasure these esoteric teachings more so than the written Word and you are attempting to infuse them so that you can twist the Gospel to fit your own beliefs, when you should be twisting your beliefs to fit the Gospel. Why not source the Talmud while your at? Lay it all out there, stop hiding behind your happy-go-lucky end-salutations. Stop pretending like you are a follower of Messiah. Stop hiding behind the false pretext that you are man who understands the Word and admit to us that you prefer the occult doctrines. Explain what this line of reasoning accomplishes in terms of direct results, and tell us whether you are ever successful.
I can’t imagine that people take anybody like you and ‘Pharisee.org’ seriously but it would appear as if I am about to waste my time with you anyway.
Hint: when 007 is taking your side in a debate, you should know that you are doing something wrong.
Keep in mind, Michael, NEVER to “take orders” from a psychopath zionist jew boy, who reads his holy book, the Talmud, EVERY DAY!
Everything Cory, omega files says, IS A LIE!
Keep that in mind.
What follows are some of Cory’s favorite passages from the Talmud!
Remember, that Beef supreme and Cory ARE THE SAME PERSON!
Cory, the Omega the zionist paid SHILL, also known on BIN as Beef Supreme!
LET US READ YOUR HOLY BOOK TOGETHER, “SCREWER OF BABIES”!
THE “holy book” that, if not designated as “religious”, would get jews thrown in prison for promoting pedophilia!
The talmud.
“A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old”
(Sanhedrin 54b).
“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing”
(Kethuboth 11b).
“Jesus is in hell, being boiled in “hot excrement”
(Gittin 57a).
“Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a whore and played the harlot with carpenters”
(Sanhedrin, 106a, 106b
“[Christ] practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy”
(Sanhedrin, 43a).
“Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament”
(Shabbath 116a).
“A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old”
(Sanhedrin 54b).
“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing”
(Kethuboth 11b).
“A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest”
(Yebamoth 59b).
“All gentile children are animals”
(Yebamoth 98a).
“Jews may use lies (‘subterfuges’) to circumvent a Gentile”
(Baba Kamma 113a).
“When a Jew murders a gentile (‘Cuthean’), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep” (Sanhedrin 57a).
Omega files,
I’m not in any way associated with Pharisee.org. I’ve never even heard of it.
I haven’t even gone to that website to see what it is about.
I gotta say that it really amazes me that you do not understand the English language.
When I say that the Knowledge I have received was Revealed to me through the Revelation of “the resurrection” and the Vision of the “Son of man”, WHERE could you possibly get the idea that this Knowledge was from any “occult philosopher”? I don’t believe them any more than I believe the IDIOT Christian theologians–and THIEVES.
In any case, go through the argument that I have presented one step at a time and point out where I am wrong. Explain the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees, one phrase at a time, and explain the function of each phrase in the context of the whole argument. In other words, make CONVERSATIONAL sense of the reply of Jesus.
You can’t do it; nor can any Christian theologian on the face of the earth.
Have you ever even READ the Treatise On the Resurrection? or, for that matter, the Gospel of Truth?
There is information in such writings that even an ORTHODOX Christian could agree with; but, because there is other information that you have NO understanding of, you will throw out the entire document as being in error.
There is a reason why the Thanksgiving Hymns refers to the Vision of the “Son of man” as the “Vision of Knowledge”. That Vision conveys Knowledge by which it is possible to differentiate between what is Revealed Knowledge and what is pagan metaphysics–many of the documents at Nag Hammadi also being polluted with pagan metaphysics, by the way.
But that does NOT include the Gospel of Thomas, for example.
And, if you want to know what “three things” Jesus said to Thomas in Saying #13, just let me know.
That information cannot be found in ANY book on the face of the earth, as far as I know, but can, in fact, be DEDUCED from what Thomas himself says.
Michael (that’s my name)
“I’m not in any way associated with Pharisee.org. I’ve never even heard of it.”
… Did I not say in my previous post, “you must be new here” ?
“I haven’t even gone to that website to see what it is about.”
… He is a frequent contributor to this website. You will see him around. He utters the same drivel you do but with more passion and a hint of lunacy. Though I give you the credit of appearing to be a man of good will, unlike that other sorry excuse for a person.
“I gotta say that it really amazes me that you do not understand the English language.”
… Is that your best defense when people call out the hypocrisy of your words? You can’t make that kind of claim without showing me how I am illiterate. Brother, that is a pathetic comeback and you might want to think twice before using this one again.
“When I say that the Knowledge I have received was Revealed to me through the Revelation of “the resurrection” and the Vision of the “Son of man”, WHERE could you possibly get the idea that this Knowledge was from any “occult philosopher”? I don’t believe them any more than I believe the IDIOT Christian theologians–and THIEVES.”
… You failed to answer my question. This isn’t a matter of what language I speak. I asked you where this ‘revelation’ came from. No need to run around in circles. Excuse me, but I don’t know how to ask this any more clearly.
“In any case, go through the argument that I have presented one step at a time and point out where I am wrong. Explain the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees, one phrase at a time, and explain the function of each phrase in the context of the whole argument. In other words, make CONVERSATIONAL sense of the reply of Jesus.”
You’ve provided nothing. You still haven’t defended my first request to show me a contradiction. You are the one that is bouncing around trying to lay as many eggs as you possibly can. Let’s start from the top. You need to show us one contradiction in the Gospel.
Michael (that’s my name)
… We can see that.
John 21 v 24 This is the disciple who is bearing witness about these things, and who has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
25 Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
I find it remarkable that the gnostic gospels are discredited so easily. John says plainly that Jesus did so much the world could not contain all that he did. Maybe you are upset that at the beginning of the gospel of Thomas it says, whoever understands these sayings will never taste death, and you dont understand?
Questions.. If Christ was the word, then why is it written in Psalm 103 v 20? Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word! 21 Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers, who do his will!
If Christ is the “I am”, meant to be God. Why does Stephen say in Acts 7v30 “Now when forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in a flame of fire in a bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he was amazed at the sight, and as he drew near to look, there came the voice of the Lord”
Also again in v 35 “This Moses, whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’—this man God sent as both ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
People will not say, look here or look there concerning the Kingdom of God. It is within you and outside of you. The holy spirit in each of us grows or diminishes, as Christ said of the holy spirit. “Those who have, much more will be given. Those who do not have, even what they do will be taken away.”
Should we all not bear one another up in patience and love? As a follower of Christ this yoke is incredibly light. The taunts and mocking comes from below, whoever causes a little one to stumble, itd be better to hang a heavy millstone… you all know the rest.
danielreyes:
Thanks for the input.
But do you have anything to add to this discussion, or not?
@Omega files
I see that you are so focused on facts that subtly is lost on you.
“I see that you are so focused on facts that subtly is lost on you.”
Is that a compliment or a suggestion for an area of improvement? I don’t mind criticism – I encourage it.
Is there something wrong with being focused on the facts? Does it, or does it not reveal the faults of my opposition when the subtle points based on facts are lost?
Omega Wrote:
Hint: when 007 is taking your side in a debate, you should know that you are doing something wrong.End Quote
Well that was a low blow Omega. Did you ever think that maybe you are wrong on some things? You have to remeber you usually take a religious side of a debate.It is well known that religion is a form of control. So you have to ask the question how much are you being controlled by this religon and this book that has been turned into a religion.
“Well that was a low blow Omega. Did you ever think that maybe you are wrong on some things? You have to remember you usually take a religious side of a debate”
You are right. I apologize for that statement. I should have ‘rephrased’ it.
Think of it like this. What good would it do if I went on a buddhist forum and tried to argue for the Bible? None.
This is a biblical debate. I asked Michael for a contradiction between the teachings of Paul and the rest of the Scripture. Your posts sided with Michael but were completely out in left field – totally unrelated to the topic at hand. Regardless of whether you believe in the Bible or not, this is a biblical debate.
My dear Omega Files
I am only reminding you that Jesus taught in parables for a reason. Sometimes lessons are best learned through stories. Much like in life we often can only learn some things through experience.
So, subtly is VERY important.
I’ll repeat the line I felt you may have missed in his comment.
“Should we all not bear one another up in patience and love? As a follower of Christ this yoke is incredibly light. The taunts and mocking comes from below, whoever causes a little one to stumble, itd be better to hang a heavy millstone… you all know the rest.”
“CrowPie”
If I may. I’m grabbing this advice for myself in chance passing…
Thank you.
( sullied myself on here enough for a lifetime. Time to let the ego stop typing )
“The taunts and mocking comes from below, whoever causes a little one to stumble, itd be better to hang a heavy millstone… you all know the rest”
… I agree with every word that you just said and those are areas of improvement that I must work on, however…
…This was exactly the quote that I was interested in. In conjunction with:
“I find it remarkable that the gnostic gospels are discredited so easily.”
… Now, I quote am123 from further down in this article only because he put it so elegantly:
“Your lovey-dovey speech is misplaced here in this particular arena of thought because it’s all about a battle for souls. This is not an argument among believers only. This is an argument among believers and deceivers. What good is your lovey-dovey speech if unsuspecting or easily swayed souls fall for the teachings in this article and end up in hell? Is it love to see someone trying to deceive others when you know the truth and you let them drag others down into the pits of hell with them and not stand up for the truth?
It would do you well to consider the following:
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world”
—1 John 4:1
“I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars”
—Revelation 2:2″
… I noticed something in both of their messages. I may ignore certain subtleties to exploit them later after the hole they dig for themselves widens. In this instance, my ego was simply a ploy to aggravate them into further revealing their false doctrine (good cop, bad cop…ish). Though, I do admit that I could have done things differently and I still have a lot to learn.
Thank you Crowpie and I will remember your advice.
Proverbs 27:17: “Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.”
“Omega Files”
“The Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach … those who oppose him … in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.” 2 Timothy 2:24-25
“Merkin”
Neither am I blameless. We are, after all human.
I do love your sense of humor though. Please be sure to keep sharing it with us. The world needs a good laugh.
If you would read the direct translation from the Greek, you would see the clear meaning… and Young’s Literal Translation is pretty accurate.
And I do know one thing… Jesus to us to admonish one another in love… not in hatred or trying to score points off of one another. How can you lead others to believe in Christ’s love if it cannot be exhibited amongst those who profess to love Christ?
Jesus said the 2 greatest commandments were… “Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul and mind” and, “Love thy neighbor as thyself”, all the laws and the prophets hang on these 2 commandments.
Listen Brothers and Sisters…
Hatred. The greatest plague this world has ever known. The sad thing about it is, the cure is inside of us all. Love. Love that comes from Jesus.
Lovely…..and isn’t that the point? After all?
Michael.
I-OMEGA and Beef Supremacist are the neighborhood demon guard dogs (same person).
Do you see who’s side ‘it’ is taking?
Yours.
Omega files,
As I recall, Paul made the utterly RIDICULOUS statement that, “if Jesus was not raised, our faith is in vain”, or some such NONSENSE.
On the contrary.
Jesus taught a DOCTRINE, whether or NOT he was physically raised from the dead.
How can you Christians claim to be able to explain the resurrection, when you can’t even explain WHY the Pharisees needed Jesus eliminated int he first place?
In any case, EXPLAIN Chapter 27, verse 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew when there was NO physical raising of dead bodies from the grave.
Michael
This has already been answered in the post by Beef Supreme. Why don’t you worry about responding to that first instead of trying to get the last spot.
We have answered your questions so now you are beginning to sound like a broken record.
Ouch! Can you see, Michael? We are familiar with the works of those who support you. Speaks volumes.
Omega files,
You tell me.
Where do Revelations come from?
Where does the Vision of the “Son of man” come from?
(It is described in the Book of Daniel.)
And explain the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees.
Michael
Michael. I’m not going to repeat what I’ve already said, and what others have already said. You still need to provide one contradiction. “the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees” has already been addressed. Get off your high horse, stop trying to claim the bottom spot, and justify your actions according the faults found within your previous posts.
I understand what you are suggesting. I am asking you to be a man and utter this lie yourself. Don’t be a coward – stand up for the Revelator! If you are claiming to have received a Revelation from the Most High then say it! You don’t need me to say it for you. I want to see you type those words so that they may be used against you in the Court of Truth come Judgment.
Frankly…
…whether or not Michael can be goaded into immortalizing anything here in the written record is of little consequence.
We are commanded to prove the spirits.
Let’s assume for the moment that Michael is on the up-and-up with respect to his ‘visitation’. The issue then becomes not one of verity or truthfulness, but whether or not Michael followed orders. And if he didn’t, then all excuses of “I was fooled by my visitors” are rendered useless.
So I’ll be happy to say it here, in black and white:
If you, Michael, were in fact visited by an entity who brought you the message you are here advocating, and you are not merely inventing or lying about such an event…
…then you were visited by an agent of the Enemy of the Most High. This enemy agent was only pretending to be one of the good guys. The message you were given is consistent with the lies told by the Enemy and his minions.
So then, did you prove your messenger? Do you even know how to prove the spirits? How can you demonstrate that your messenger was not an agent of Satan? Did he pass the test? How did you become persuaded that the messenger was who he claimed to be? Was it merely because he told you so?
What have you got?
Jesus was asked a similar question by the Jewish religious authorities.
And he responded as I have, with a question in reference to John the Baptist, as I recall.
Bubye.
Michael
If you were standing in the light Michael, dealing with all of our questions, even all at once, would be as easy as swatting flies.
You are ducking, dodging and evading.
You are not answering any of the questions put to you.
This alone should tell you that your are arguing from a position of weakness. The TRUTH is impervious to any questions, accusations, indictments or attacks.
Your house is build on sand, brother.
We see that Michael has been at this for a while.
There is actually a YAHOO ANSWERS page dedicated to him, re the question of Jesus vs. the Sadducees:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130212173154AAryeDf
Beef Supreme,
There are a number of issues involved here.
Turn to the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees in Chapter 20, verse 30 of the Gospel of Matthew, where Jesus says “For at the resurrection (or in the resurrection) men and women do not marry…”
The Doctrine of “resurrection” is a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’; but that Doctrine is based directly on a sensate (without words) Revelation. That Revelation is referred to as “the resurrection”; either “at” or “in”. It occurs in the present and consists of a time-reversal to a previous life, during which that memory is experienced precisely as it was experienced the first time during that previous life; in other words, in real time, rather than as a memory. (I am talking from personal experience here, not on the basis of something anyone has told me, or something that I have read someplace. You do not remember the way you died in a previous life; instead, you re-experience how you died in that previous life and it is that experience that you have a memory of.)
By the way, the same goes for the Revelation of the Memory of Creation described in Chapter 2, verse 7 of Genesis. Moses did not receive a WORD Revelation that Adam had been Created by God. His consciousness was TIME-REVERSED to the Moment of Creation itself, where he re-experienced for the first time what the Creation was like. NO WORDS were involved. It is a sensate experience that he described in words.
The difference between the Doctrine of “resurrection” taught by Jesus and the doctrine of the Pharisees was not merely a conceptual difference. It was a CATEGORY difference. One existing at the level of a felt experience–that is, a Revelation–the other existing at the level of thought or doctrine alone.
Another issue is the issue of people being raised physically from the dead.
Elijah is said to have raised a widow’s son from the dead, as I recall; whereas Jesus is said to have raised from the dead the daughter of Jairus and Lazarus.
So, people then conclude that such resurrections are EVIDENCE for the DOCTRINE of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave.
But that is a ‘god of the dead’ doctrine.
Instead, such physical resurrections are demonstrations of the Power of God–a God Who would NOT validate the pagan doctrine of a physical resurrection.
Now, clearly, in Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew, there is a distinction between “the resurrection” and “his resurrection”.
What you need to know, in this regard, is that the Revelation of the “resurrection” occurs in the context of an EXTREME sorrow; without which it does NOT occur. The relevance of the sequence is that those who received the Revelation of “the resurrection” would have received that Revelation prior to the resurrection of Jesus, which would have occurred days after that.
There are reasons for this which are conveyed in an oral Teaching.
Michael
Utter garbage. You can’t reveal what you are talking about because what you are talking about is deliberate nonsense.
Michael wrote,
“Turn to the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees in Chapter 20, verse 30 of the Gospel of Matthew, where Jesus says “For at the resurrection (or in the resurrection) men and women do not marry…””
Michael,
You have been at this for a long time now, so I will put it down to carelessness on your part that you haven’t even managed to cite the correct verse. By now, you should know this material by heart, and the verses should be perfectly memorized. This is your baby. Let’s get with it. The way you inscribe the chapter and verse of your Scripture references invites unnecessary confusion. Clearly, even you are confused by this odd habit you have acquired. It might help if you communicated chapter and verse more concisely, like this:
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
You then wrote:
“You do not remember the way you died in a previous life; instead, you re-experience how you died in that previous life and it is that experience that you have a memory of.”
This is as naked as it gets. And it takes time to coax you into being as direct. But now that we have, our work will be much easier. You are speaking here of the concept of REINCARNATION. You probably have some other name for this concept, but it makes no difference. ‘Transmigration’ of souls or spirits or mind or consciousness – whatever the terminology used – is anathema to the Scriptural Narrative. Here’s why:
If there is such a thing as reincarnation in any form; more to the point, if ANY of us born here on Earth get to experience MORE THAN ONE life in this world, then the Sacrifice of Messiah Yehoshua of Nazareth was for naught.
If we are given more than one opportunity for life in this world, then there would NEVER have been the need for the only begotten SON OF GOD to come in the flesh and to offer Himself as an atoning Sacrifice for the sins of the Israelites and the sins of all Adam-kind.
By lending legitimacy to the doctrine of reincarnation, you have NEGATED the entire Scriptural Narrative of Salvation.
AND THAT, my friend, is why I am confident that I know who your visitor was. No one can make such short work of contradicting the entire purpose of the written Word with the exception of Satan himself.
But now that we have shed sufficient light on your claims, let us continue to your next point. You wrote:
“Elijah is said to have raised a widow’s son from the dead, as I recall; whereas Jesus is said to have raised from the dead the daughter of Jairus and Lazarus. So, people then conclude that such resurrections are EVIDENCE for the DOCTRINE of a physical raising of a dead body from the grave. But that is a ‘god of the dead’ doctrine.”
Who told you that physical resurrection is a ‘god of the dead doctrine’? On what are you basing this conjecture? If there is actual legitimate similarity between the Scriptural Narrative and the teachings of the Mystery Religions (which there isn’t), then on what do you base your assumption that Scripture is based on the Mysteries and not the other way around?
And finally, you wrote:
“There are reasons for this which are conveyed in an oral Teaching.”
But this last bit from you will first require your answer to ‘proving the spirits’ asked earlier and above by me in this comment section. Until you satisfy the query of legitimacy, there is no reason to even consider the possibility that you might be privy to certain ‘private lessons’ that are anything other than invalid and counterfeit inventions of the Enemy.
Beef Supreme,
It was a typo. I had been looking at Chapter 20 of Luke.
In any case, I am NOT talking about REINCARNATION.
NOT. NOT. NOT.
The doctrine of “re”-incarnation, like the doctrine of a metaphysical ‘heaven’ and ‘hell’ is based upon the pagan doctrine of a metaphysical ‘soul’. Check with ANY rabbi. Neither the Torah nor the Prophets affirms the existence of ANY metaphysical ‘soul. Man was Created as a “living soul”, which means that the personal identity is a living body.
All of this is dealt with in some detail in the Treatise On the Resurrection, but you do not strike me as being a person who will investigate new sources of information which may very well demonstrate that you are in error; so I doubt you will ever come to an understanding of what I am talking about.
But, in any case, you are correct, if people live more than one life, there is NO SUCH THING as the crucifixion being a “vicarious atonement for the sins of men”. But that was PRECISELY the Satanic doctrine that led directly to the rise of Nazism in the first place.
So there is NO “salvation” at all in the sense that you understand that term.
As far as the reality of previous lives, you really need to ‘get out’ more.
Read the book Soul Survivor in which a 4 year old boy has memories of being a U.S. fighter pilot in the Pacific during World War II. And there are at least dozens of other well-documented cases demonstrating the existence of previous lives; birth marks, for example, being similar to injuries which a person had received in a previous life.
But the more I read your comments, the more I come to the conclusion that you have never even read my original writings or any of my replies in the first place, since you appear shocked that I am specifically repudiating the SATANIC doctrine of “vicarious atonement”, for example.
Writing the words of Truth on a consciousness like yours is something like writing with your finger on the surface of the water. Such words are not retained in memory at all.
I’v dealt with this for more than 37 years and with dozens of people.
I characterize it as a form of dementia in opposition to Truth.
Michael
Uh oh… I can’t wait to see Beef’s reply to this one.
“It was a typo. I had been looking at Chapter 20 of Luke.”
Fair enough. These things happen.
“In any case, I am NOT talking about REINCARNATION. NOT. NOT. NOT.”
How do you suppose I knew you were going to say that? I wrote: “You probably have some other name for this concept, but it makes no difference.”
“Neither the Torah nor the Prophets affirms the existence of ANY metaphysical ‘soul. Man was Created as a “living soul”, which means that the personal identity is a living body.”
I am actually well-versed in the difference between, and the meaning of, the Hebrew words NEPHESH and RUACH. NEPHESH is most commonly translated into English as ‘soul’, but the meaning is more akin to ‘living, breathing animal’, i.e., the mortal living body.
“…you do not strike me as being a person who will investigate new sources of information which may very well demonstrate that you are in error…”
Actually brother, I investigate everything. I train in Kabbalah and Mystery School dogma for a very good reason. When one plans to do combat with Jiu-Jitsu fighters, it is wise first to become proficient in Jiu-Jitsu. There is actually very little you have said I haven’t encountered in the past. Certain aspects of your teaching are presented with slightly different perspective, but there isn’t anything otherwise unique in any of your argument. You are advertising and advocating unsound doctrine from an unclean source.
“I doubt you will ever come to an understanding of what I am talking about.”
It might help if you were willing to answer questions.
“But that (reincarnation) was PRECISELY the Satanic doctrine that led directly to the rise of Nazism in the first place.”
I wouldn’t even know where to begin with that one. The development the Ubermensch and the inauguration of the Thousand Year Reich had literally nothing in common with the doctrine of reincarnation. Hitler based much of his beliefs on the writings of H.P. Blavatsky and on the teachings of the Thule Society. The Hyperboreans don’t reincarnate. The Ubermensch doesn’t reincarnate. Apollo (by whom Hitler believed himself to be possessed) could perhaps be said to reincarnate, in that when he comes to Earth he ‘walks into’ a different body each time – but that is a tenuous argument for reincarnation, at best.
“So there is NO “salvation” at all in the sense that you understand that term.”
Which term: Reincarnation? or Salvation. Reincarnation is a non-existent phenomenon. Salvation is everywhere, and is everything to everyone, as I understand Savlation.
“As far as the reality of previous lives, you really need to ‘get out’ more.”
Where would I go? The ‘reality’ of previous lives is a hoax perpetrated by busy-body demons who like to play nasty tricks on people who don’t know any better.
“Read the book Soul Survivor in which a 4 year old boy has memories of being a U.S. fighter pilot in the Pacific during World War II. And there are at least dozens of other well-documented cases demonstrating the existence of previous lives; birth marks, for example, being similar to injuries which a person had received in a previous life.”
I am not unfamiliar with the reports, Michael. I question the veracity of the reports, not the existence of the reports.
“But the more I read your comments, the more I come to the conclusion that you have never even read my original writings or any of my replies in the first place, since you appear shocked that I am specifically repudiating the SATANIC doctrine of “vicarious atonement”, for example.”
The word ‘shocked’ would be misapplied in this case. This is what I do, so there is nothing shocking about any aspect of our conversation thus far. But it might help matters greatly if you offered a working definition whenever you use loaded phrases like ‘vicarious atonement’. Because no matter which definition of that phrase I suggest, I expect you will reject the definition I provide. Why don’t you simply lay it out right here? Let me ask you yet another in a long line of questions you will refuse to answer:
What is your definition of ‘vicarious atonement’?
“Writing the words of Truth on a consciousness like yours is something like writing with your finger on the surface of the water. Such words are not retained in memory at all.”
Platitudes. I’ll bet you’re very good at platitudes. What you are not good at is defending your case, or answering questions. Can you try answering a few of my questions before you subject me to any more platitudes?
“I’v dealt with this for more than 37 years and with dozens of people. I characterize it as a form of dementia in opposition to Truth.”
I guess not.
You have offered nothing because you have nothing to offer. You should stop selling this nonsense you have invented. No one visited you. No one gave you a commission to spread any word. You read a few books and you have an over-active but otherwise unremarkable imagination which gave you the idea to make yourself out to be something you are not. Get on line brother. You are in the company of millions of men who do the exact same sort of thing. You are not unique.
Here is what I can offer you in return for your efforts: The TRUTH is infinitely and inexpressibly more and better than the empty and indigent version of the Promise you are trying to sell to your bothers and sisters.
Great summary: “if ANY of us born here on Earth get to experience MORE THAN ONE life in this world, then the Sacrifice of Messiah Yehoshua of Nazareth was for naught.”
It must be one or the other, there is no middle ground, Beef Supreme enjoys my proxy and i’d hazard to say there have been few who have withstood his attentions.
Bring your best, Michael, you’ll need to. Oh it was a typo now?
Where in the world did you get the notion that Paul was a false apostle?
That is exactly what we are trying to figure out three posts above this, though he is obviously trying his hardest to avoid the questions.
Shalom Bill R I can try to tell you somthing about that…(greetings to the friends I see here as well just now! being iresponsible in coming here to scan the news before I get bird photos which is the purpose of the visit …oh well, curiousity can be beneficial even now! lol)
so, about Paul … if you read about the Dead Sea Scrolls, (I read about this in The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln) and also their other absolutely awesome thoughts and research, in The Messianic Legacy, (same heroic dudes wrote it in the 90′s= the same ones who wrote the classic which brought out the grail and the lineage mystery Holy Blood, Holy Grail, in the 80′s, which again, was spiked, horribly, sabotaged, by the ptb, who ruined untol thousands of books)
well, these 3 men bring out how Paul/Shaul the one whom the Catholics all revere as ‘theirs’, (why is that? ask yourselves this question as you read Paul’s letters which are put in the Bible, and then, ask yourselves why as well, are Paul’s letters to different groups, a man who never even knew or met the Messiah Yahushua/Yahshua in reality, in person while he was alive, – why are these LETTERS of convoluted winding, roundabout mazelike personal views of a man whose brother Yacob (called ‘James’ in the Bible) evidently disagreed with in serious matters, – are this questionable man’s views placed into the Bibllical canon (by what men, again?) as worthy to be considered the ‘words of Yah’ on the same standard as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Moses, and the words written down of the men who understood the teachings of those who knew the Messiah? Those all seem to basically agree, some mistakes notwithstanding. But Paul’s writings threw a monkey wrench into the whole thing, and seemed to become a reason for people not to obey Yahushua.. and although we may be misunderstanding Paul’s meaning (he is kind of maddening to read, if you try to reconcile his words with the doctrines and teaching of Yah and the Messiah’s actions). He may be alright, if you study his meaning enough, but the fact remains, many do not read or study enough, and Pauls words are confusing, meandering and many wrest those letters’ meanings to mean the opposite of what Yah and Yahushua both clearly taught, so this is what makes Paul questionable in the first place. Anything that leads so many people astray from the clear teachings of the Creators … (#1 red flag) and anyone who is called by the Catholic Universal Church of Roman Worship of Satan ‘Their Apostle, #2 red flag!) and a man who was known to murder and torture believers in Messiah and Yah and said he repented, yet seems to lead people AWAY FROM the TRUTH STATED BY MESSIAH, WHOM HE NEVER EVEN MET unlike the Disciples! – why doesn’t tht Catholic Babylonian Church say ‘The Apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke and John etc. are special to them?? and #4, Why did the family members of Yahushua (brothers) view Paul in a negative light, after their brother’s murder and maybe were referring to this man Shaul as the Lawless One???? RED FLAGS…
Yes, they may have ‘not understood’ poor confusing Paul. They were only human, like us, subject to being mistaken. But if you want to be real, I think Yahushua’s own brother/s would know the truth their Brother taught rather than believe a man who never MET THEIR BROTHER the messiah, whose writings require the patience of a SAINT and the understanding of AN ANGEL to get thru without going completely mad…
yES, I know that you may say, ‘Paul didn’t contradict the Messiah’…. but he sure did a GOOD JOB at SEEMING TO CONTRADICT THE MESSIAH YAHUSHUA to me, anyway.
Just some things to consider, and research, some more when you have time/are inclined to do
It all seems very fishy to me…and if you are honest, it is fishy, when you see how the fish head Pope/Bishops etc. hold paul up to be so special, St Paul this, St Paul that, even more than the Messiah himself! Where is a chuch called by Rome ‘Church of Yahushua’ or ‘Temple of Yahshua’ or ‘Temple of Teachings of Hebrew Messiah’?
Paul to me is weird, this is my opinion, but – many things ARE weird about this guy….
Shalom, to you all, I will be back in the pm or next day, hopefully, to answer and see you (Omega) on the other thread! – Omega, you must be so crowded for time, studying for a Masters degree, how do you do it? – you have learned in 2 years all of this at quantum speed!
Love from the seeking apostate
Uh oh.
Whachootalkinbout sister?
You and me will have to bash this one out together one of these days.
If anyone gets a bad rap in these latter days, it’s the Apostle Paul. When we finally see him in the Kingdom, he’s going to be wearing a T-shirt that reads:
Hi. My name is Sha’ul of Tarsus. I am an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.
You say I said WHAT?
Great post (happy but) wretched infidel… and good to see you here.
I am very crowded for time, I’ll have to shut this off for the rest of the day soon so that i can do some of my other ‘work’. I just hope that what I’ve learned will be enough for when the time comes – may He keep me on the right track.
Be well.
Infidel wrote:
“…they may have ‘not understood’ poor confusing Paul”
See? Something you now have in common with the Apostle.
I was confused into thinking you were arguing against him. Upon further (and more careful) review of your posting, I see that the mistake was my own.
As I was, sister.
“Paul/Shaul the one whom the Catholics all revere as ‘theirs”
Your definition of Catholic being anyone who does not read the NT in the original Hebrew like Michael does?
By faith alone meaning, of course, absolutely nothing to protestants.
“Your definition of Catholic being anyone who does not read the NT in the original Hebrew like Michael does?”
Wretched Infidel didn’t prove her definition of a Catholic. She was simply pointing out the Roman Catholic Church’s history of manipulating Scripture.
**provide** not prove
The NT is Greek text, yes.
Beef Supreme,
Yours is the position taken by the Roman church (in the Easter, 1991 issue of the L’Osservatore Romano, as I recall); which is the same position taken by the Sadducees; that is, that those who have received the revelation of the memories of previous lives are “possessed by demons”.
But this is PRECISELY the Revelation that Jesus refers to as the “angels in heaven”.
So, that is your choice:
Whether Jesus received Revelations or whether he was possessed by demons.
That is something you are going to have to decide for yourself.
Michael
My position is conditional, Michael.
My position is contingent upon you answering the question I asked about proving the spirits.
The burden is yours, since the doctrine you are teaching is your espoused doctrine. We have been blessed with a way to check for legitimacy in cases just like this one. You seem to be ignorant of this method, or unwilling to address it head-on.
The bearer of legitimate teaching would neither be ignorant of this device, nor be elusive in addressing whether or not it had been employed. Hitherto, you have been one or the other, if not both.
Beef Supreme,
Do you consider Paul to be a bearer of “legitimate teaching”?
How many people believe, as did Paul, that the Doctrine of “resurrection” is the ‘god of the dead’ doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave RATHER than a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’?
MILLIONS of Orthodox (both Zionist and anti-Zionist) Jews and HUNDREDS of millions of Christians and Muslims…
PRECISELY those people who are pushing this civilization into the horrors of the “time of trouble” Prophesied by Daniel.
Do you REALLY think that this teaching of Paul (and Maimonides, and their Muslim accomplices) is IRRELEVANT to the conflicts between Jews, Christians and Muslims?
Jesus said “By their fruits you will know them.”
And just LOOK at the EVILS in the world today and the historical ‘fruits’ of those who have believed the Satanic doctrines perpetrated by Paul.
It is pointless for me to answer your questions because your whole problem is, being completely unconscious of the history of Christianity, and never having had the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees effectively explained to you, you don’t know who to believe in the first place. Figure it out for yourself regardless of what ANYONE tells you.
I don’t care if you believe me or not. I am merely fulfilling my responsibility to TELL you the Truth that has been Revealed to me.
You are ultimately responsible for what you choose to believe; and, while the Roman church considers those who have received the revelation of the memories of previous lives “possessed by demons”, Jesus refers to precisely the SAME people as being “children of the resurrection and sons of God”–as I recently wrote on another note on BIN.
Michael
Michael asked me:
“Do you consider Paul to be a bearer of “legitimate teaching”?”
I am glad you asked me that question Michael. This will afford me an opportunity to show how simple it is to answer direct question, if you are standing squarely in the light of Truth. Ready?
YES.
I believe Paul to be a bearer of legitimate teaching.
“How many people believe, as did Paul, that the Doctrine of “resurrection” is the ‘god of the dead’ doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave RATHER than a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’?”
You can keep referring to the belief you oppose as a ‘doctrine of the god of the dead’, but you have still done nothing at all in the furtherance of demonstrating the legitimacy of your claim. Saying a thing and repeating it until you are blue in the face does nothing to lend substance or verity to the thing.
“PRECISELY those people who are pushing this civilization into the horrors of the “time of trouble” Prophesied by Daniel.”
You’re going to have to do better than pointing to the dirty deeds of Christianity and Catholicism – the deeds of religion – in order to make your case. You do know that, don’t you Michael?
“Do you REALLY think that this teaching of Paul (and Maimonides, and their Muslim accomplices) is IRRELEVANT to the conflicts between Jews, Christians and Muslims?”
Sorry brother – I can’t just let you sneak that past me so. You may not compare and conflate the writing and teaching of Paul to Maimonides or to the Mutakallimin without qualifying your comparison. My stance is that the comparison itself is null and void on account of its absurdity. If you intend to argue otherwise, please feel free to do so.
“Jesus said “By their fruits you will know them.” And just LOOK at the EVILS in the world today and the historical ‘fruits’ of those who have believed the Satanic doctrines perpetrated by Paul.”
Once again, you will win no ground in this conversation by pointing to the high crimes and misdemeanors of Church members or the behavior of religious men. My position is that Satan himself is directly responsible for the Roman Catholic Church, just as surely as he is responsible for the overwhelming majority of Christendom. I’ll say it again: Complaining about the misdeeds of men will accomplish nothing in the furtherance of your argument. I have no idea why so many men resort to this meaningless tactic.
“It is pointless for me to answer your questions…”
Spoken like a man with no real answers. Why don’t you just fire at will and see what happens? Why don’t you let the record here decide the matter? Answer even ONE of my questions – because to this point you have refused to do so. Do you think this is something new? Do you think your excuse is unique? It is not. You have nothing in your bag but excuses, because you are not acquainted with Truth. Try me.
“…your whole problem is, being completely unconscious of the history of Christianity, and never having had the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees effectively explained to you, you don’t know who to believe in the first place.”
Is that so? What makes you think I am ignorant of Church history? Isn’t this just more baseless supposition on your behalf? You are deflecting. You are eluding. You are avoiding.
I have all day. I have all week. Let’s see what you’re made of.
“Figure it out for yourself regardless of what ANYONE tells you.”
Thanks for the advice.
“I don’t care if you believe me or not. I am merely fulfilling my responsibility to TELL you the Truth that has been Revealed to me.”
And if you are who you claim to be, then you have an equal responsibility to expound upon the MERITS of your so-called revelation. You must be capable of DEFENDING and of EXPLAINING your stance, otherwise you have been chosen unwisely as an emissary for your message. Are you unequal to the task of explaining your ‘revelation’ and defending its merits in the face of Scripture? If so, then your revelators chose you by mistake, thus demonstrating both their weakness and their true nature. Either you are a liar, or your messengers were fools.
An emissary of the Truth would NEVER refuse to answer the questions put to him by sincere seekers. So far, all you have managed to do here is to make noise.
Michael is running out of options and shows this when he say’s…
“It is pointless for me to answer your questions…”
… spoken like a man with no real answers and certainly no sense of the absurd.
Michael can say…
“Figure it out for yourself regardless of what ANYONE tells you”… and… “[you] never having had the reply of Jesus to the Sadducees effectively explained to you”
… Michael says this within the one post. Unless i’m stupid too? Sigh for us some more, show us your fruit.
Omega Files wrote
“danielreyes:
Thanks for the input.
But do you have anything to add to this discussion, or not?”
I’ve put forward some questions that I would like answered if any can help, since everyone here seems to be a know it all. You wanted to point out a contradiction in Pauls writing, I pointed out one with Stephen. Although it is only a contradiction in your mind because you cannot answer it. Numbers 23v19 God is not a man that he should lie.
Questions.. If Christ was the word, then why is it written in Psalm 103 v 20? Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word! 21 Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers, who do his will!
If Christ is the “I am”, meant to be God. Why does Stephen say in Acts 7v30 “Now when forty years had passed, an angel appeared to him in the wilderness of Mount Sinai, in a flame of fire in a bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he was amazed at the sight, and as he drew near to look, there came the voice of the Lord”
Also again in v 35 “This Moses, whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’—this man God sent as both ruler and redeemer by the hand of the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
OK then YOU answer and explain your gibberish. What it shows. Go on.
If you could formulate a coherent thought then I would be glad to try to help clear things up for you.
You provided some Scripture, so what am I supposed to look at exactly?
In the beginning was God and the word. Jesus was the word yes, also many other thoughts/action that perform Gods will. Theyre the same thing. We can look to 1 Kings 22 and v 24 specifically. The fruit shown and the persons interests behind spreading it, to glorify God or themselves. If we are purely motivated to help then our deed is pure and true.
Simply put, all that is good comes from the Father and his holy spirit.
The burning bush Stephen says was an angel, but Gods word which is true. The same holy spirit that Jesus has and everyone on earth has, to different degrees according to the 7 churches in Revelation. To all who have much more will be given, those who do not have even what they do will be taken away. That parable speaks of the holy spirit.
It was not Jesus who spoke through the burning bush but the holy spirit. Jesus knew this and was the fullness of God in the spirit on earth. I wont deny certain truths but many people are in error thinking a man created the universe and beyond.
If we take the bible to be true, which I do. Numbers 23v19 says God is not a man. Once in John and another in 1 John it says none have seen God. We know God in the spirit for God is spirit. We are in the image of God, in spirit, living souls.
Hope I answered well, God bless may peace be with us all as we search for truth and are sanctified by truth. One last thing, there are zero contradictions in the scriptures.
“In the beginning was God and the word. Jesus was the word yes”
… So you acknowledge that Messiah pre-existed as Yah prior to His carnal existence.
“all that is good comes from the Father and his holy spirit.”
… So you acknowledge that Yahweh Elohim is perfect.
“It was not Jesus who spoke through the burning bush but the holy spirit. Jesus knew this and was the fullness of God in the spirit on earth.”
This is where you contradict yourself. Now, maybe I am just not quite understanding what you are asking but, if ‘Jesus’ is the Word, then how is the Holy Spirit speaking without Him?
Gods word is the word, it is truth. Jesus existed before there was anything, but so did you and I. God says Job existed before the earth. Proverbs 8v22 also says the same of David.
The angels are also the in fullness of the holy spirit, it was God who spoke through an angel in the burning bush. You contradict Stephen saying Jesus spoke in the burning bush. Christ spoke Gods words while alive. An angel spoke Gods word at the burning bush.
If we do read the thanksgiving psalms from the dead sea scrolls and also Christs parables. They kill him to try and inherit his inheritance. Christ is a man, earns kingship over the world because that was always Gods plan, before anything existed.
How do we know when we speak Gods word then? Read scripture about who we should be, when we do the wrong things knowing very well and our concious bearing witness, only hoping God will allow us success to do his will.
I did not contradict scripture I dont believe but im willing to learn, as should you and everyone else.
@danielreyes
Well you at least do explain yourself and are comprehendable. It’s just …
John 14
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
I think I understand what you are getting at now.
“You contradict Stephen saying Jesus spoke in the burning bush. Christ spoke Gods words while alive. An angel spoke Gods word at the burning bush.”
Exodus 3:3, 6: “And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt… Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.”
http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/4397.html
The word used for angel in Exodus is #4397 מַלְאָךְ mal’ak {mal-awk’}… which is very similar to the Greek word Angelos – used in Acts 7. These are both very broad words that are used to describe a ‘messenger’. So Moses did not look upon this entity broadly referred to as an ‘angel’, but then it reveals itself to be ‘the God of thy father, the God of Abraham’ in Exodus 3:6. If this was simply an angel speaking to Moses, then the Word would have said so. Consider the two angels that came to Lot in Genesis 19 for example.
Exodus 34:30: “And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.”
There was clearly a difference between being in the presence of the ‘angel’ of Yahweh Elohim and His angelic messengers. If Messiah is the Word, then I believe that, yes, He was there in that burning bush that day. But I could be wrong of course.
So as Mirabolin quoted:
John 14:6: “… From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
You want to start at the beginning, danielreyes? Can we not accept that most of the participants, in this debate, are somewhat familiar with the topic and material?
Another idiot who lacks any real understanding of scripture and Christianity – can’t believe the ignorance professed here by this idiot.
I would hold off on the name calling until you can explain this quote:
“Let me also add that for Catholics there has been a number of saints and mystics in the history of the Church, of unquestionable reputation and integrity, who have had visions and revelations from God, Our Lady and the Angels. For instance, in the works of the Venerable Mary of Agreda, a 16th Century mystic, a Spanish nun, Our Lady revealed to her that indeed, Christ was born exactly on the night of December 25th.”
/spirit/2014/02/is-christmas-a-christian-holy-day-or-is-it-100-pagan-2484986.html
Um, … excellent point.
We stand on totally shaky ground… even when people are 100% sure of a lie, they stand on a fault line – they live on San Andreas, scary
BEEF SUPREME:
Uh oh.
Whachootalkinbout sister?
You and me will have to bash this one out together one of these days.
If anyone gets a bad rap in these latter days, it’s the Apostle Paul. When we finally see him in the Kingdom, he’s going to be wearing a T-shirt that reads:
Hi. My name is Sha’ul of Tarsus. I am an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin.
You say I said WHAT?”
LOL…OLOLOL! BEEF! LOL, …. well that is so funny I needed that thank you brother =)
Omega Files:
Great post (happy but) wretched infidel… and good to see you here. (and the same to you, brother)
I am very crowded for time, I’ll have to shut this off for the rest of the day soon so that i can do some of my other ‘work’. I just hope that what I’ve learned will be enough for when the time comes – may He keep me on the right track. – This is my prayer too ~ ?! all the time esp for the children
Be well. Thank you, May Yah bless you in the rest of the day’s studies and know Yah your Father knows those who put their trust in Him (and you’ve already proven your love by him in your studying His words)and ‘I will save him in that day (that burneth as an oven, Malachi Chpt. 4) as a man saveth his only son who serveth him”…jewels.. You’ve taken hold of his words, put them in your heart and mind, spirit is willing to learn all his ways, those things we don’t know yet, we pray He and Yahushua put in our spirit/path to know ‘before we need to know it/the things’ = (intuition? pray for this also, always, which is a gift from IAUE)
BEEF SUPREME
Infidel wrote:
“…they may have ‘not understood’ poor confusing Paul”
See? Something you now have in common with the Apostle. (yes!)
I was confused into thinking you were arguing against him. Upon further (and more careful) review of your posting, I see that the mistake was my own.
As I was, sister. (Well you know, I am still in a state of flux/confusion about Paul. He is to me a huge questionmark of a human… it very well could be that I will be ashamed of questioning or seeing him in a bad light, at that day. But he’s got to understand he did this to himself; you know? He didn’t have to be so convoluted and hard to get. Why didn’t he just say it simpler? It could be it only really hit the nail on the head to the peopel in the groups he was writing to; they had particular problems … he was wriiting in specific reasons to those separate groups, Hebrews, Romans, etc. Maybe they got the truth from him when we can’t truly see it clearly now in our time/perspective in history. Maybe things were understood back then to them, as they have talked before and it went without saying, so to speak…I don’t know, Beef. I simply do not know. Yah forgive me if I have been leading people wrong to mistrust Paul; I believe I will be forgiven for that, since we are told by Yah not to trust man… Paul is a man, and to ‘test the spirits to see if those things be so’… and the worst thing about Paul to me is that he never knew the messiah, never met him, travelled with him, and Yahushua’s brother/s felt strangely about him, regarded (or are said to have a beef with him, seriously) Shaul as the Adversary, or the Lawless One… at that time, in their midst, teaching a way against their Creator, and against the teachings, therefore, that their brother had spent his life teaching to men. This is the biggest thing, to me. It sounds like the hugest warning that we can actually HAVE, you know? If this was a writing which was inserted, then why didn’t the CAtholic Church disgard it, like they did with all the rest of the things against their religion? (they couldn’t discard everything against them! haha!…)
Absolutely confused about this man, Beef. I could be wrong, but were his brothers actually the ones we are to ignore? Hmmm… troubling, actually Paul is disturbing to me, i have to be totally honest about this. One of these days… we will know all these things. But what do we miss if we choose to conclude after studying all things related to this ? If we have the rest of the Bible, it is alright. Paul at best – agrees with the important things in the bible. He SAYS ‘follow the law’… in a roundabout way… (if you can stay sane thru the roundabout ?! =/ The other things he ‘contributes toward’ are not earthl-changing to the rest of the bible’s message. I think Beef, that if we took out the letters Shaul wrote, we would be still directed to all the truths we need by the rest of the manuscripts which make up the Bible. Or is there something which is in there which is totally needed for being saved? I honestly don’t know. My grandmother said she ‘loved Paul’. Maybe I am wrong, maybe this is the bad seed part of me that I have to fight…I do not know! … all I know is I need to study it more, and more and … I am exhausted anyway.. Thank you for the funny and kind replies, Beef, and Omega, and the other people here… we are all in this together, are we not. I appreciate you all and I do feel that if we put our hearts to it, we pray to Yah for the understanding on this, we will come to the truth in the time we need to have it. At least, this is what I want to happen.
FEB 27, 2014, 12:06 PM
Infidel wrote:
“Why didn’t he just say it simpler?”
Maybe he couldn’t. Sometimes the same thing happens to me. I write and I write to convey my thoughts, and then someone like Mayhem comes along and says brilliantly in ten words what it took me a paragraph and a half to express. It happens. But with things related to Scripture, everything is as YHWH wanted it. Whatever Paul’s Letters are or are not, they are or are not precisely according to our Father’s will. You can count on that.
“This is the biggest thing, to me. It sounds like the hugest warning that we can actually HAVE, you know?”
There are MANY problems and enigmas surrounding this Apostle and his writings; more even than I have seen discussed at any time on this website. I know of a few apparent strikes against Paul which his detractors here have never used, and which I’m sure they would love to get their hands on if they could. (Pharisees.org would SALIVATE if he knew a few of these things.) But the fact remains; each and every objection we can level against this brother disappears completely once it is dragged into the light of Truth.
“My grandmother said she ‘loved Paul’. Maybe I am wrong, maybe this is the bad seed part of me that I have to fight…I do not know!”
I’ll stand with you grandmother on that. And I used to be an AVID Paul detractor. I once went about accusing our brother to anyone who would listen. But that was toward the beginning of my journey when I still made the mistake of trusting the opinions of men and women I respected. I made the assumption that since they knew so much on the one hand, they must be equally knowledgeable on all accounts pertaining to the Word and its teachings. If there’s one thing I’ve learned along the Way, it’s never to make that mistake again. The Truth is in the Word and the Truth IS the Word. And believe me Infidel, there will be a very long line of Messiah’s people looking to Paul in That Day for some serious explanations. I have managed to wrestle sound understanding from the Apostle’s words, I think, because my mind and my writing habits function similarly (in some respects) to his; not that I would dare suggest I am in any way his equal – I am not. But Paul is my favorite Apostle for the reason that he makes available to us a heightened and deepened understanding of the Scriptures which I doubt many of us would otherwise have been able to obtain, apart from studying and contemplating his teachings. That is why I believe Messiah chose him to be an apostle.
Why didn’t he just say it simpler? “Maybe (he tried) but he couldn’t.”.. Yes, this is true, possibly.
We try to make it crystal clear, even more clear than before, in case anyone needs more cases, or another perspective… addressing everything relevant to it, and … it comes out more unclear! (sighing…nothing is easy, really)
Thank you, Beef. It may have been this with his letters…
I have thought of this before, and like to still give him the benefit of the doubt, as we are not perfect. But then I think of the family of Yahushua. Why were they so angry at him? I think we are trying to judge Paul on insufficient circumstantial evidences, and many people are not asking the question that if the family of Yahushua, the Messiah (and who better should know? the family or an outsider, who never knew him?) viewed him as a lawless anti-messiah figure shouldn’t we take his letters as just extra-biblical writings, at best? They do shed some light on some things, yes. But they are just the letters of a man. Only a man’s opinions. Not the ‘words of Yah/IAUE’ direct from the Spirit of Yahuweh, like with Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, etc.
Should they be INCLUDED in those writings, to make people think they are on the same level?
This is only what I think, but they are in there because of only what the CAtholic Church ‘thought’ too, right? Who are they to say they are equal when they are clearly not? I am very disturbed about this whole Paul conundrum, but we don’t have to be, because if we do take him for who he was, (a mere man, not a prophet, a man who lived in the time after the Messiah was murdered and resurrected) and troubled the righteous family members of the Messiah, – maybe we don’t lose anything, just reading his letters for what they are/were, letters to people out of his own head/mind. Yes, he may have had insights which were from Yah, as all can have. But he was never a prophet. And there are those dubious circumstances and the fruit of Paul is that people do not have to adhere to the laws of Yah if they are not ‘Jews’. This is definitely a Catholic/Christian precept, (and to those who don’t know, this does not mean Biblical!)
and he made billions of people believe it is ALRIGHT to go against/ignore Yah and Yahushua’s ways…
just thinking about this makes me on edge. But although what you said could be the case, (in trying to make it clear and comfort the feeble-minded, he made it muddy/quite unclear) I still wonder why he was so hated by Yahushua’s family/brother Yacob (James/Jacob) … even to this day, tryig to find out the truth which is so elusive with Paul, I still have to look at him with eyes wide open and eyebrows raised… take a step back at why he wrote like he did.
I know my grandmother was a very good woman, very spiritual, very educated about the bible, very gifted, in tune with Iahuweh. She is the one who taught me about the Name, Yahweh, and Yahshua, and that law-keeping was for gentiles too, (I had been raised overseas and never heard this issue before). She gave the book The Two BAbylons to me when I was 18; she had read it when she was 16, and said it was so fascinating/paradigm blowing to her at that time, she could NOT put it down! (Yah bless her… little 16 year old poor girl, reading that!)
You are also so well-versed in this, I do hope you are right. But the fact remains that his ‘books’ (letters) have caused like you said, a whole lot of people to be very confused/possibly misled into tbe error of Yah’s law being not so important, in the end…
I think I may be wrong to have called him in my life a Roman collaborator, I do not know; maybe he is innocent, misunderstood.
Still it is best to make sure nothing in the bible should contradict another part. And people rather take what he wrote and do what they THINK he said, happily, seeing it as that loophole they may freely use to live their lives ignoring the need for Yah’s laws.
I value your learned observations and findings. I wish to ask you more about how you came to view him in this other newer light, Beef. Have you put it here before? Thank you again. The fact is, I am exhausted and have yet to look it up (all your writings) and any of Omega’s, (I didn’t know Omega had articules either). Sigh…
thank you again, trying to keep up is hard but I still wish to ask you about your calendar knowledge… from last year, I can’t remember that specifi thread. Do you remember when we were talking about it, and I mentioned Karaite Korner as the one I usd, and you mentioned another reckoning which I gather was different than theirs?
Well, again, I appreciate this thread, thank you christoper, and Beef, and Omega and all the people on here looking for the truth. If you have anything I should read that you have read to come to that (and I know it is not that simple, Beef… you have studied many things, and thru prayer and diligence and time, came to this conclusion…I know…)
Sigh. STill cannot help but look at Shaul/Paul at least a little askance…
Love, your Sister
“…but they are in there because of only what the CAtholic Church ‘thought’ too, right?”
The importance of this fact cannot be overstated: The Catholic Church DID NOT intend to share the Bible with us. Bible ownership was once punishable by death. ONLY the priesthood was eligible to read or to possess the Scriptures. So the Catholics were absolutely faithful when they compiled only the TRUE and inspired works for the New Testament. Therefore, it is not problematic to our purposes that the Catholics were in fact the ones to compile the New Testament.
“…because if we do take him for who he was…”
When we tear apart everything he wrote, we can get a very good idea of who he was.
“…the fruit of Paul is that people do not have to adhere to the laws of Yah if they are not ‘Jews’.”
This is the crux of the matter. And here is another fact: Paul never said that anyone is exempted from obligation to the Law. In many of the English translations, this subject has been deformed to show Paul preaching and teaching against the Law. But Paul never did anything of the kind. If Paul HAD in fact preached against the Law of Moses, he would be illegitimate and I too would be at the front of the line denouncing him as a fraud and warning people to beware of his false teachings. Neglect of the Law is contrary to everything YHWH ever said. No man can ever contradict anything YHWH says and still be regarded as truthful. Paul’s words are a source of confusion, but once rightly understood, it can be shown conclusively that Paul nowhere taught against the Law.
“…and he made billions of people believe it is ALRIGHT to go against/ignore Yah and Yahushua’s ways…”
Catholic and Christian men and institutions taught and teach that this is so. But Paul never said anything of the kind. Paul followed the Law and he taught that we should follow the Law.
Paul’s lecture on the ‘Law of Sin and Death’ is the cause of a great deal of the confusion, but a careful reading of his teaching shows that the Law of Sin and Death is not the Law of Moses. The Law of Sin and death is that ‘Law’ in our flesh which opposes and is the opposite of the Law of Moses.
“I still wonder why he was so hated by Yahushua’s family/brother Yacob…”
I don’t believe it is fair to say that James or his family hated Paul. They may have feared Paul before his conversion, and there may have been some lingering suspicion, but Paul’s ministry lasted for the better part of 20 years and the problems all seem to have been resolved.
Your grandmother taught you that “law-keeping was for gentiles too…” AND she loved the Apostle Paul. That probably means she understood him very well. If Paul had been teaching false doctrine, is it likely she would have held such a high opinion of him?
“…maybe he is innocent, misunderstood.”
He is also the victim of much intentional slander and false witness. The leaders of Catholicism and Christianity don’t teach that Paul abrogated the Law because they are confused. They warp Paul’s words and exploit his Letters as a device for the accomplishment of their ends. The ends of Catholicism and Christianity are (among other things) to get people to reject the Law of YHWH.
“I wish to ask you more about how you came to view him in this other newer light, Beef.”
Our Father burdened me with a heavy feeling of guilt at the time when I was a Paul accuser. I came to understand something was very wrong. I made it my mission to learn the truth of the matter, so I became an expert in the question of Paul’s deceit or his legitimacy. I made it my business to debate as many Paul accusers as I could (and still do), in as public a forum as I could find. The arguments against Paul are all easily defeated and shown to be unfair and untruthful accusations.
More importantly however, there is discernment. Discernment is not admissible in debate; only facts are admissible. But here is a fact: The enemy is not capable of writing what Paul wrote. I study the enemy and his writings and teachings. I read Pike, Blavatsky, Crowley and Bailey, et al. When we look at things like the Knowledge Book or the Urantia Book, or when we study the work of New Age authors or even many of the Ancient Philosophers, we see patterns and habits that repeat. There is a character which becomes very apparent that lives in all of the enemy’s work. Sometimes, the enemy even tries to copy the kinds of things Paul wrote about in his Letters. But try as he might, it is something the enemy CANNOT replicate. The enemy is dead to the Spirit. Paul was Spirit infused. The Holy Spirit is unmistakable in Paul’s work. And THAT, is quite simply something the enemy cannot duplicate or counterfeit. The enemy THINKS he can imitate the Spirit, but he can’t. When he tries to, he merely generates an abomination: he creates sickness and disease masquerading as health and vibrancy. Viewed according to this understanding, Paul’s writings can be none other than what they are – they are the legitimate, YHWH-breathed, YHWH inspired Word.
I don’t remember the link to our Calendar conversations, but you can always email me and I’ll put something together for you. I might still have your email address, but if it’s changed, you can always drop me a line at: [email protected]
Beef Supreme,
No longer interested in discussing Doctrines which you could never understand.
But, in the interests of ‘full disclosure’, there is something else I should probably tell you.
Many, many years ago, I received certain Visions and Prophecies of the coming “time of trouble” involving the loss of millions upon millions of human lives. Those Prophecies were then sent to some ten thousand people who think EXACTLY like you. Understand this, they think EXACTLY like you. They were sent for the purpose of warning them in order that, perhaps, some lives could be saved.
But they thought EXACTLY like you think.
They accused me of evil and all manner of ulterior motivations.
And they decided that you should NOT be informed.
They were OFFENDED when told that the Doctrine of “resurrection” is a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’.
So you won’t.
ONE of the reasons I wrote this note was to see if there was anyone who might believe the Revelations I had received, in order that they could then be informed of the Prophecies I had received.
Guess not.
Michael
We have another PIX!
No past no future. No memory. No mind. Karma of the wicked naziis who disagree with you.
http://imgur.com/gallery/f8NlFW7
“ONE of the reasons I wrote this note was to see if there was anyone who might believe the Revelations I had received, in order that they could then be informed of the Prophecies I had received.”
You are better off putting a cork on those revelations unless you have the ability to test the spirit from whither they came. If you can’t substantiate your message, and you can’t present it in a way that is in accordance with the Word, then you must take some time to reflect upon the message you have received. You’ve developed a chronic case of tunnel vision my friend.
It might not hurt to pray for Messiah to block out all influences that may be leading you astray.
“No longer interested in discussing Doctrines which you could never understand.”
You haven’t begun to discuss anything with me. All you have done is bob and weave and juke and jive.
“But they thought EXACTLY like you think. They accused me of evil and all manner of ulterior motivations.”
I only accused you of lying and being deceived about your utility. I don’t think you’re evil. I just think you fell into the very common trap of self-exaltation.
“And they decided that you should NOT be informed.”
I have implored you repeatedly to inform me. You have refused because you know you will get nowhere with a man who actually knows a thing or two about Scripture and about the Enemy of Scripture.
“They were OFFENDED when told that the Doctrine of “resurrection” is a Doctrine of ‘Rebirth’.”
Call it what you will, brother. I am offended when I see someone selling lies in the place of truth. You could become an emissary for the truth at any time.
“ONE of the reasons I wrote this note was to see if there was anyone who might believe the Revelations I had received, in order that they could then be informed of the Prophecies I had received.”
Who among us would believe you simply because you say something is true? Would you even be interested in sharing your message with such fools? Rather, isn’t it true that you are hoping to share a message with discerning men and women? But in order to do that, you would have to be willing to answer questions. You have no answers to any of the moderately difficult questions I have asked you. If you are looking for vacant minds into which you can simply dump shovelfuls of your teaching, then you might have better luck selling your wares at an amusement park or a psychiatric ward.
I think we’re about done here.
In the 3rd comment for this article, Omega Files challenged Michael to “Find me one contradiction” after Michael stated that “This ‘gospel’ of Paul is a flagrant contradiction of the Teaching of Jesus”.
After that first exchange of a few comments, there are over 80 comments as of this comment and the only thing Michael can seem to offer in his defense boils down to this comment from Michael:
“In Chapter 2, verse 18 of 2 Timothy, Paul specifically CONTRADICTS the reality of the memories of previous lives, a revelation received by some of the followers of Jesus and figuratively described in Chapter 27, verses 52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew.”
So Paul contradicts “memories of previous lives”? Got Scripture for that? No, you don’t. You are going outside of Scripture for your supposed contradiction. Which leads me back to square one in this comment thread. You Michael are preaching a Gospel message other than what the Word teaches, and “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:9).
All of Michael’s flailing and feeble attempts in this thread to discredit the Word can be summed up quite nicely by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
That never gets old.
Yep, you can’t play that too many times
Paul was being persecuted by both Pharisee and Saducee, then used his belief in the resurrection to divide them against each other. Paul definately believed in the rebirth Christ taught.
Pauls teaching do give example of memory from earlier life too though, he says the word of God is written on the tablet of each mans heart. Those that do the law without the law are the law unto themselves. How is this so? Christ spoke of and I hate to use this word because of stigma associate due to other religious dogmas but, reincarnation.
Christ said John the Baptist is Elijah who was to come, believe his words if you may. Christ also says to see the kingdom one must be born of the spirit and to enter one must be born of the water and spirit. To be born again in the spirit, to be baptized and start a new life. To be born of water, pre-existing as a christian to die and repeat the process and baptism once more or twice, thrice more. Who knows but God? We do not pour new wine into old wineskins less they burst or old wine into new wineskins less they spoil. Psalm 119 v 81 My soul longs for your salvation; I hope in your word. 82 My eyes long for your promise; I ask, “When will you comfort me?” 83 For I have become like a wineskin in the smoke, yet I have not forgotten your statutes. 84 How long must your servant endure? When will you judge those who persecute me?
Psalm 119 represents the wineskin as the body and wine is common for spirit. Only added the verses to conclude why I believe how I do.
Keep seeking until you find, when you find you will be disturbed, then you will marvel.
Both Michael and commenters are correct, now keep seeking. God bless.
danielreyes:
You have nothing to substantiate the efficacy of your arguments.
You said: “Both Michael and commenters are correct, now keep seeking”
Have you been reading the posts on this thread? How can you consciously come to this conclusion? Explain? If you cannot do this then you are doing your brothers and sisters a great disservice by making the erroneous claim that I have quoted above.
You make the argument for reincarnation without substantiating this position with Scripture. Michael has already made this mistake. By stating this, then you have completely invalidated your entire understanding of Scripture. No need to hide behind your warm-and-fuzzy words, your intent is clear enough.
I believe I did, Christ said John the Baptist is Elijah who was to come. Think what the angel says to Elizabeth Johns mother, he will be full of the holy spirit even in the womb. If you believe im causing divisiveness, so be it. Christ did the same, if you cant see what Christ said even though so very plain. John is Elijah, those with ears to hear let them hear. Do you?
I also mentioned why I believe in the wine/wineskin parable how I do. Each person has had experiences in life to make them believe in whatever it is they believe, be it demons, ghosts/spirits or visions etc. An afterlife on earth is the end point and where people get to, thats exactly what it will be though, life. We will be like the angels, not marrying and after lusts but helping one another in love and in the spirit.
Michael may not have the words but we cant discredit the truth in scripture and his experience.
Also your comment of the 2 seperate accounts of Gods angels on earth are irrelevant. Christ himself says that the disciples will see the angels of God ascend and descend upon the son of man. Each occasion has been different.
http://carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/was-john-baptist-really-elijah
The teaching of reincarnation is against the Old Testament; therefore, Jesus was not teaching that John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated. So, what did Jesus mean when He said that John the Baptist was Elijah? We see in Malachi 4:5 this prophecy, “Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.” Jesus is referring to the prophecy concerning Elijah. We see that the coming of Elijah was in the spirit of Elijah, which is so stated in Luke 1:13-17. So, we see that John the Baptist was in the spirit of Elijah, but not actually Elijah reincarnated.
http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/elijah.htm
Malachi’s prophecy explicitly says that Elijah himself was going to return… not some other man. Instead of Elijah personally returning from heaven, what the rabbis actually got was John… a dirty looking fellow, who wore a leather loincloth, a camel’s hair robe and who ate locusts for lunch. John the Baptist actually ate grasshoppers! John did not fit any picture that the rabbis might have had of what the spectacular second coming of Elijah was going to be like. John the Baptist didn’t come floating down from heaven. Instead, he came into the world in the same way as everyone else. John had a mother. He had a father. John had been born as a child and he had grown up just like everyone else. On the other hand, Elijah had been born eight hundred and fifty years before John. John was not named Elijah. John had a different body, a different personality, different teachings and a different purpose… Elijah had returned from heaven in the “spirit”. John went “on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah.”-Luke 1:17 (KJV) Viewed this way, both John and Jesus were right. The man named Elijah who had lived eight hundred years earlier had not literally, physically returned from heaven in the flesh as just about everyone expected. Instead, the fulfillment of the ‘return of Elijah from heaven’ prophecy had nothing to do with Elijah’s physical body. It was the return of the same “spirit and power” of God that had animated Elijah eight hundred years earlier that had returned to also animate John the Baptist. The reality of Elijah’s return was the appearance of yet another totally separate and distinct Prophet of God. (Yes, Jesus did refer to John as a Prophet.) This is the true meaning of “the return.”
Many people have a different view on reincarnation and even studies have proved that reincarnation is a fact.I will post some different views and some case studies.
Christian Reincarnation
Scriptural support for reincarnation
There are many Bible verses which are suggestive of reincarnation. One episode in particular from the healing miracles of Christ seems to point to reincarnation:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen3.html
Justinian also introduced more changes to Christian doctrine. He convened the Second Synod of Constantinople in 553 A.D. The Synod was neither attended nor, apparently, sanctioned by the Pope in Rome. At that time, in fact, many of the changes to Christian doctrine in the eastern Roman empire had not yet reached the Papacy, although they eventually would. The Second Synod issued a decree banning the doctrine of “past lifetimes,” or “reincarnation,” even though the doctrine was an important one to Jesus.
The Synod decreed:
If anyone assert the fabulous pre-existence of souls
and shall submit to the monstrous doctrine that follows
from it, let him be anathema [excommunicated].2
In deference to that decree, all but very veiled references to “pre-existence” were taken out of the Bible.
Belief in preexistence was declared heresy. This suppression was enforced throughout the western Christian world and in its sciences. The idea of personal pre-existence still remains, to a very large degree, a Western religious and scientific heresy.
Christianity was shaped into a powerful institution under the East Roman emperors. True to the pattern of history, “Romanized” Christianity was another Brotherhood faction that could be counted on to do battle with other Brotherhood factions, thereby helping to generate nonstop warfare between human beings. The new orthodox Christianity was placed in opposition to all other religions, including the East Roman Mystery Schools, which Justinian banned.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/godseden/godseden06.htm#The Plagues of Justinian
The Essenes were a third religious sect during the time of Christ that lived away from the towns. Instead they lived in simple communities. The Essenes practiced the seventh day sabbath, believed in reincarnation, non-violence to all living creatures and the sharing of all material possesions. They were uninvolved in the politics of the Sadducees and Pharisees and shunned publicity. Because of the discovery of dead sea scroll material, this ancient sect and their teachings are back alive.
http://reluctant-messenger.com/essene/
Furthermore…………………
Christianity, like almost every known religion before it, originally maintained the doctrine of an immortal soul that reincarnates through many lifetimes and bodies. The entire Egyptian religion was based on the consciousnesses journey after death and between material existences.
However, over time the idea of reincarnation has been purposely omitted and suppressed by the leaders of modern religions (i.e. the Brotherhood).
“In 553 AD, the belief in reincarnation was outlawed at the Second Synod Council of Constantinople under the influence of the Emperor Justinian. The council decided, without the attendance of the Pope, that:
‘If anyone assert the fabulous preexistence of souls and shall submit to the monstrous doctrine that follows from it, let him be… excommunicated’.
The ‘monstrous doctrine’ was that we live forever on an eternal journey of evolution through experience and we are all responsible for our actions in this physical life or a future one. An acceptance of reincarnation took away the power of the heaven or hell mob to frighten people into doing as they, sorry, ‘God’, said. The knowledge continued to be sucked from the public domain. After Constantine the Great, came other emperors who influenced the course of the fast emerging Christian creed …
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/atlantean_conspiracy/atlantean_conspiracy43.htm
Even more of a surprise to many people, however, is the fact that reincarnationist concepts were also part of some of the more mystical branches of traditional Western religion, from the Sufis of Islam to the Gnostics of the early centuries of Christianity, and even within the Hasidic and Kabbalist traditions in Judaism. In fact, at times it virtually flourished and, especially in the case of Christianity, almost became the predominant belief system during the first few centuries of the Church’s existence until it was forced underground by the more traditional, non-reincarnationist branches of Christianity. Its proponent’s writings declared heretical and burned, the concept was so successfully suppressed by the Church of Rome that few Christians today even realise it was ever a part of their own faith.
Why was it suppressed? The obvious answer is because it threatened authority. Western religion is largely dependent upon the belief that man is destined to “die once and then be judged” to maintain control. In promising multiple rebirths, however, reincarnation renders the proclamations of the Pope or the Grand Mufti or whomever was the ruling head at the time transitory and, the truth be told, irrelevant. As such, reincarnation threatened the Church’s very livelihood, making it a very dangerous idea that had to be either suppressed or labelled as heretical in order for the Church to maintain its power base. As a result, the concept remained largely unknown outside of Asia for probably seventeen of the last twenty-one centuries.
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/07/06/one-soul-many-bodies-the-case-for-reincarnation/
Evidence that we have lived before.
Scientific Proof of Reincarnation
Dr. Helen Wambach was a skeptic about reincarnation and actually began a scientific study to debunk it. But the results of her 10-year research into past lives shocked her and forced her to conclude, “I don’t believe in reincarnation — I know it!”
Dr. Ian Stevenson is a Professor of Psychiatry and has documented hundreds of cases of verified reincarnations. He has concluded that many physical and psychological anomalies can be traced back to former lives. Examples and descriptions of his important work are given including India’s best known case of reincarnation — little Shanti Devi, who suddenly remembered her former life in a neighboring village. To everyone’s surprise, her former husband and family were still alive and the young child was eventually reunited with them. Her descriptions of everything were totally accurate and well documented.
Last we cover the work of Dr. Roger Woolgey who is best known for his association of psychological complexes and phobias with past life traumas. His therapeutic methods are explained.
http://www.viewzone.com/reincarnationseries.html
Reincarnation. Fact, fallacy, superstition or simply coincidence? Those stories of people with super-minds; minds that delve into the past, minds that have the power to move objects and perceive things the rest of us cannot with our ordinary senses; minds that operate independently of the body. Since ancient times, these enigmas have intrigued rational people but only back in the 1970s are scientists, the Mind Detectives, beginning to understand something of the mysteries at work inside of us.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/339553-reincarnation-fact-or-fallacy-case-studies/#?photo=2&_suid=138337060528406301573388538357
Science Now Proves Reincarnation: A Look At The Soul’s Journey After “Death”
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/10/29/science-now-proves-reincarnation-a-look-at-the-souls-journey-after-death/
Many popular religions, such as Christianity and Catholicism, also refute the idea of reincarnation because it contradicts the belief systems within the theologies which state that there is a place where sinners go after death called “Hell” and a place where the devoted go called “Heaven”. It becoming knowledge that the major religions were used as a control mechanism to manipulate the masses through the use of fear.
Conspiracy When Justinian Removed Incarnation References
This Awareness indicates another area of what may be termed conspiracy or deception has to do with the action of Justinian, who took out references to reincarnation from the New Testament but did not manage to get everything and left certain areas, or certain phrases, that are clearly references to reincarnation. This has been discussed previously.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/master_file/jesusmyth6.htm
Just as a person puts on new garments after discarding the old ones; similarly, the living entity or the individual soul acquires new bodies after casting away the old bodies. (2.22)
Weapons do not cut this Spirit, fire does not burn it, water does not make it wet, and the wind does not make it dry. The Spirit cannot be cut, burned, wetted, or dried. It is eternal, all pervading, unchanging, immovable, and primeval. (2.23-24)
The Spirit is said to be unexplainable, incomprehensible, and unchanging. Knowing the Spirit as such you should not grieve. (2.25)
Bhagavad Gita
@Michael
“I’v dealt with this for more than 37 years and with dozens of people.”
God, you’re thick or deliberately confusing!
This stuff is basic.
Dump the previous lives stuff. It’s rubbish.
How to Remember Your Past Lives
http://www.wikihow.com/Remember-Your-Past-Lives
If you are not a Christian then what are you or were you? (What’s with all this Chapter 2, verse 18 of 2 Timothy stuff rathe than just Timothy 18:2).
I think most people do understand what you are talking about but perhaps are put off by the way you talk about it.
do you people not see the grip that Satan has on you all. why are you all arguing and bickering with one another when one focus can and should be entirely on father whom is in heaven through the lord and savior Jesus ( Yeshua ) who is Christ in which is the only salvation.
The precious lamb whom was killed, buried and resurrected by the power of God for every one of you and yet you thank him by fighting amongst yourselves while stating that he is lord of lords. another mans opinion matters not so why let it get to you for that is not peace especially the peace that is of God through his Son. it is not weakness to walk away from an argument as it takes true strength and makes it so the other must attain their peace again. don’t fuel a fire.
If somebody decides something no body but father will ever sway them no matter what they simply don’t want to be proven wrong. it is a shame but so many humans are that way inclined. instead of arguing with them should one not pray to father for them that he may reveal his truth to them. as it his truth alone that is not clouded unlike every one of us. like it or not we are still currently human and none of us can see and know all that father knows. it is up to every individual to seek his counsel and trust me he is willing to give it. you will not get true wisdom and righteousness from any man no matter what he claims himself to know. put your trust completely in Father through his word that is manifest in Christ. Father i pray that all those willing to forgive one another for all things big and small to forgive and forget. as all things in your eyes are indeed small. i pray they remove each others transgressions as far from themselves as you have removed their own so that they may attain forgiveness from yourself my lord. Father i ask you this in the blood of that precious lamb whom is your son that by your power was raised from the dead and i ask you father knowing that you are indeed able and willing.
My love unto you all as of the love of Christ. may peace and blessings that are of God be to all and forever more.
“another mans opinion matters not so why let it get to you for that is not peace”
Can this be substantiated by the Doctrine of Salvation (soteriology)?
I think not.
no not at all.
Your lovey-dovey speech is misplaced here in this particular arena of thought because it’s all about a battle for souls. This is not an argument among believers only. This is an argument among believers and deceivers. What good is your lovey-dovey speech if unsuspecting or easily swayed souls fall for the teachings in this article and end up in hell? Is it love to see someone trying to deceive others when you know the truth and you let them drag others down into the pits of hell with them and not stand up for the truth?
It would do you well to consider the following:
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world”
—1 John 4:1
“I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars”
—Revelation 2:2
The speech is no good at all if souls fall for any teaching that leads them to hell and of course it is not love to see somebody trying to deceive another when one knows the truth and lets said human drag down another with it.
the verses you have given are deeply considered Thankyou.
i do apologize for misplacing my love for you all.
I am but a vessel and when father asks of me his will be done not mine.
may peace by unto you. God bless
Thank you begone. Your intent is noble and your humility is to be emulated. May the Holy Spirit give you wisdom about such things, in Jesus name, amen.
Grace and peace.
The why’s and wherefore’s of these debates are none of your concern, begone. Join in, you’re welcome, i like much of what you say.
What are we all doing, might have been the better question. Only the Truth in Scripture to the very best of our ability to comprehend is allowed and i’m always open to learning.
There are rules, as with any debate, and we are forced to repeatedly expose these false doctrines. In two years i’ve seen this very debate a dozen times. Would you wonder at our impatience, begone?
Be well.
Merkin takes #100
Surveys the carnage…..
Carnage as far as the eye can see….
My wife is all “Why are you up all night laughing your ass off?”
Omega Files takes #200
Commemorates the carnage….
Pharrisees.org is that you !
So you got banned under your old moniker but here you are back slandering a saint and telling itching ears tall tales again?
And it’s the same old clap trap too, how unique of you.
Now I’ve tried quoting scripture to you, I’ve tried everything under the Son in Love towards you.
God says, leave him to his vomit.
Stēkō pharrēsia Iēsous
@danielreyes,
You said:
“Both Michael and commenters are correct”.
Impossible. They are diametrically opposed and no amount of mumbo jumbo can change that.
May you please answer a question I have for you, on one hand, you said here in this thread:
“Gods word is the word, it is truth. Jesus existed before there was anything”.
But on the other hand, in the thread in my article on the mystery of God in the Book of Revelation here…:
/prophecy/2014/02/the-mystery-of-god-in-the-book-of-revelation-the-two-witnesses-the-manchild-and-the-destroyer-as-you-have-never-heard-them-spoken-of-before-2458894.html?currentSplittedPage=0
…you said this:
“Also if I may quote from gnostic gospel of Thomas 15. Jesus said, “When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father.””
So my question to you is this danielreyes: on one hand you say God’s word is truth and Jesus existed before all things, and on the other hand you profess a belief in something Jesus would never say, something that goes against His own Word, for the gnostic quote you provided clearly and obviously violates the Word of God for according to that quote, Adam and angels all are qualified for our worship, so can you please clear up this discrepancy and state clearly which one you believe is truth
And both is not an option, it’s one or the other, the Word of God or the gnostic gospels, which is it
I think you just caught him without his sheep’s clothing.
Yes, that’s rammed home the point. Hopefully it will put an end to all the bleating
It was God and the word, yes, also everything existed at that moment before day one of creation in Genesis. Christ says repent for the kingdom is at hand and already here.
So before day one of creation if God says, I know what will exist and therefore it will exist. There are too many references in the bible that say this, where God knows us long before we were aware of ourselves. That said, not only do I say Jesus existed but all living things, Jesus was not special in the case that he says he was first.
Onto your 2nd point, he will be born in the spirit after death just like he was reborn in the spirit after he died on a cross. Isaiah 66v7 “Before she was in labor she gave birth; before her pain came upon her she delivered a son. 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children. 9 Shall I bring to the point of birth and not cause to bring forth?” says the Lord; “shall I, who cause to bring forth, shut the womb?” says your God.
Israel will have a rebirth and itll be because the son of mans rebirth, the male child in Revelation.
66:1 Thus says the Lord: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest? 2 All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the Lord. But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word.
So in short, Jesus existed before Gods word was sent out in day one of creation. Yup, but so did everything else. Jesus the male child be born and so will a nation. We are men with living souls, as I said previously. Not all men deserve what he will acquire, besides God planned the gift for him since time began. The end of the prodigal son, the son is promised all that the father has. If the son is like the father, which I know he is, he’ll say the same to his brothers and sisters, all I have is yours.
Its not that complicated, you make it complicated with your biased mind. You believe Christ created the universe but he did not. Dont give a man credit due when he’s only a man. Its the spirit that was inside him, I am in the father the father is in me?
“Dont give a man credit due when he’s only a man”
This is where you stumble over your own hypocrisy.
And don’t try to change the subject. am123 asked you a simple question: “the Word of God or the gnostic gospels, which is it” ?
You said:
“You believe Christ created the universe but he did not.”
This is another statement of yours that contradicts the Bible, which says.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
—John 1:1-3
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him”
—Colossians 1:16
You also said:
“Dont give a man credit due when he’s only a man.”
So, do you believe Jesus was the Word made flesh, yes or no?
Regarding this statement of yours, which you totally ignored:
“Also if I may quote from gnostic gospel of Thomas 15. Jesus said, “When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father.””
Do you accept the above statement as something Jesus actually said, yes or no?
You imply the gnostic verse is speaking of an angel or adam but I quoted Isaiah and made a reference to Revelations man child.
What more do you want? To agree with you? I will not, they both speak to my heart and it would be impossible to discredit one or the other. Jesus will be the one not born of a woman, am123 likes to mix words. I had answered this question on the other article also.
Onto your first point, Jesus came to earth to save the lost sheep of Israel. The Father within him told him everything to say. He performed Gods will to the fullest, word and deed. He spoke complete truth. Thats why he called himself the word because the Lord spoke, not Jesus! It was also the word that created the universe and beyond, dont fool yourself.
Numbers 23v19 God is -not a man- that he should lie.
Gods word doesnt end in scripture, many people say and do Gods word but to a degree. None have performed as Christ but he does say those who believe in him will do greater things, ive yet to see?
You yourself are a liar though by not being more thorough with what the word really teaches.
You said: “they both speak to my heart and it would be impossible to discredit one or the other… don’t fool yourself”
I almost spit my coffee out in laughter after reading this. But then you go on to say:
“You yourself are a liar though by not being more thorough with what the word really teaches.”
Calling a man of Faith a ‘liar’ is an awfully dangerous thing to do if you have no justification for this claim. Is am123 a liar for not ‘being more thorough’ by incorporating Gnostic gospels that directly contradict the Word? I don’t think that makes very much sense Daniel. Just because something feels good to your heart doesn’t make someone who tells you that you are a wrong a liar. You and Michael both – tares amongst the wheat with an overdeveloped case of chronic tunnel vision.
Deuteronomy 4:2: “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
All that you have demonstrated to us thus far is that you are NOT a man of faith. My question is now why do you continue to pretend? You’re contradictions have been shot down and you are scrambling to justify your words because they ‘speak to your heart’. This is not a valid argument and you should leave this tactic at the playground.
OK, so you agree with the gnostic quote you provided, which says:
“Also if I may quote from gnostic gospel of Thomas 15. Jesus said, “When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father.””
And you said:
“they both speak to my heart and it would be impossible to discredit one or the other”
Well, if the above gnostic quote speaks to your heart, then the Word is not in your heart then, for I have shown you that quote does not line up with the Word.
So then, can you please answer this:
Do you believe Jesus was the Word made flesh, yes or no?
Yes I believe Christ said the parables from the gnostic gospel Thomas.
He is as much of the word of God any human couldve ever been. Due to the fact he fully and willingly did Gods will, not his own. He was still a man though who had a will of his own, even in the garden before he was turned over by Judas Christ prays. Take this cup from me not as I will but as Father wills. So Christ has his own will which means hes an individual just like anyone else, unlike anyone else though. Christ did all that he did gladly, even to die on a cross to redeem souls, not abandon them! Romans and Phillipians I believe say, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear allegiance?
Isaiah 45 v 21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
Christ knew the difference between soul and spirit. Paul says the word of God divides soul and spirit. Christs soul and spirit were in accord to do Gods will early on. The soul being the individual of a person and the spirit being Gods will for us. How many times have we thought of doing the right thing and not? Then the bad thing and did it? We most of the time do not do Gods will, we dont even realize it when it comes to the smallest discrepancy on basically any matter.
One thing I know for sure is that Christ spoke truth as God our Father gave him the words. Also from previous books in the bible is where he learned. Christs parables have keywords that can be traced to significantly important verses in OT that clear up meanings. Happy seeking.
Could you please give a yes or no answer to the following question:
Do you believe Jesus was the Word made flesh?
I am in the Father and the Father in me, you could say the same, everyone can. None are the fullness of the Father the same way Christ was though, and will be again.
Honestly without reincarnation, nothing makes sense. Im sure you would condemn the countless millions of souls pre Christ just to be correct.
So what are you, incredibly evil willing to condemn the countless millions or will you believe Christ when he says John is Elijah, those with ears to hear let them hear! Its pretty simple to make the logical conclusion, considering Christ did not come to condemn but to redeem people!
“Honestly without reincarnation, nothing makes sense”
With reincarnation, your belief in redemption or salvation has no foundation.
@ Omega Files
“With reincarnation, your belief in redemption or salvation has no foundation.”
How is that so? Where is your logic in said statement? The flaw in yours is that hundreds of millions of souls are lost pre christ, also many rural villages and peoples who never knew “christianity” are lost.
Are you evil and believe theyre lost, rather. Do you believe God and Christ evil to not care for those souls? I believe you are a liar sir, you just dont know it. Just as satan speaks from himself and speaks lies naturally, likewise you do also.
Daniel.
Stop and holster your finger weapons.
“How is that so? Where is your logic in said statement? The flaw in yours is that hundreds of millions of souls are lost pre christ, also many rural villages and peoples who never knew “christianity” are lost.”
I’m not going to retype this entire thread, but if you were reading, this was clearly a topic that was addressed. Don’t play ignorant now, I know you saw this. You can’t justify your beliefs because they ‘seem right’. The logic in my statement/s is/are directly from the Bible – and ONLY from the Bible. Stop your pouting and provide something to back up your own ‘danieldogma’. You are flailing around; pretending to be a man of faith by quoting the Bible, but then you directly contradict what you quote with just about everything that you type. It saddens me to watch you Daniel. You should spend some more time reading over the conversations in this thread – whether you believe them or not. Get a better foothold on this discussion – then come back here and try to make your points. But this, Daniel, what you are doing, is borderline pathetic.
“Are you evil and believe theyre lost, rather. Do you believe God and Christ evil to not care for those souls? I believe you are a liar sir, you just dont know it. Just as satan speaks from himself and speaks lies naturally, likewise you do also.”
Sometimes I question whether I am speaking to a child when I read your words. This is one of those times. Stop calling people a liar because they disagree with your own personal dogmas and pet doctrines. You haven’t demonstrated to us that you know any biblically sound Truth. All your biblical reasoning is twisted to fit your gnostic beliefs. I can’t imagine why the thoughts of this quote came in to that brain of yours. You are clearly terrified of being wrong. Justify your accusations or let them be held against you.
I honestly did not read your post where you put these questions to rest. If you did so, is copy pasting so hard?
You believe Christ is God. (He was in spirit) I believe in God through Christ. You substitute the infinite God for a single man. Ive answered my reasoning behind why I believe what I do. You still can never explain Numbers 23v19 God is not a man. Its always going to be there unless you realize youre wrong somewhere, and change to make no contradictions. There should be zero contradictions in your heart.
Take care.
So that looks like the answer to the question I asked “Do you believe Jesus was the Word made flesh?” is no.
So then, let anyone reading this understand where you’re coming from:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
—1 John 4:1-3
“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.”
—2 John 1:7
How dare you to limit the all powerful God. The Creator of the these Heavens and Earth!
This is why your are not to be contentious!
Matthew 19:26
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
i am stunned! i have never seen a reporter on BIN cancel comments on their story, have you? it was the pope francis story by castlejenny. she needs our prayers. poor lost sheep, AGAIN!
Those people are REALLY crazy.
My second to last post to CastleJenni said:
“The more you push her in to a corner, the more she folds under the pressure”
Am I right, or am I right?
Elva Thompson
Brilliant article. Finally, Christopher has been brave enough to write the truth about the usurper Paul. He was creep, a pharisee shill…anti woman and anti animal.
“Christian Suppression of the Teaching of Jesus”
Should be, Christ-I-Anti suppression of the Teachings of Horus/Zoroaster/Mithras/Dionysus/Iesous/Jesus.
Depending on where you lived, same story, different places with different names. No different than Catholic, Christian, Baptist, 7th Day Adventists, Mormon, Amish. Same story, different places, with different names.
The Jesus story is as old as the hills,.. well at least as old as the man made hills in Egypt called pyramids.
“I was in Nashville, Tennessee last year. After the show I went to a Waffle House. I’m not proud of it, I was hungry. And I’m alone, I’m eating and I’m reading a book, right? Waitress walks over to me: ‘Hey, whatcha readin’ for?’ Isn’t that the weirdest fuggin’ question you’ve ever heard? Not what am I reading, but what am I reading FOR? Well, damnit, ya stumped me! Why do I read? Well . . . hmmm…I dunno…I guess I read for a lot of reasons and the main one is so I don’t end up being a fuggin’ waffle waitress.”
Comet ISON was destroyed at perihelion. Nothing to see here folks.
I’ve always wondered if Bill Hicks was Alex Jones. What do you think about that one?
Bill Hicks was an original in every sense of the word…
fearless, vicious and someone the powers that be hated.
( you don’t have to believe everything he said… but you can trust him )
Alex Jones is a plant… a direct result of the good work Bill Cooper was doing with the truth movement. ( Jones cannot be trusted )
Can you image “Jones” speaking like this to his “congregation” ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0
( Notice the hanging moon.. and what he is leaning against while “being disposed of” )
A little gem from prisonplanet itself
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=102732.0
U.N. “prayer room”
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/un13_01.gif
Was that a blood moon? and… the megalith from 2001: ASO.
I just can’t discard the potential effects of MK-ULTRA in the media. MK-ULTRA started ten years before Hicks was born. What if all it took was the ‘flipping of a switch’?… And a little cosmetic surgery with voice augmentation, but he was a master at changing his voice. But, don’t get me wrong, I hold Hicks in far more esteem than Jones.
Great article. Kubrick’s my favorite.
And that painting is pretty interesting… a doorway maybe?… someplace for the spirit to travel when they offer their sacrifice on that black and white table… That’s a small table too – child size.
“Was that a blood moon?” ( looks like it to me )
“That’s a small table too – child size”
That is “THE black cube”… the same meaning as “the obelisk from 2001″
Important symbology. Whowhat does it represent? (The tell as to the nature of the U.N. if you missed Lucis trust )
Hicks died of cancer at a tender age. Before he turned ’33′. I think he was “given” cancer.
Jones uses organized religion ( and fear ) for an end to a dirty means.
Hicks eschewed “organized” religion and took shots at will at the men running this world.
One of those men wore a black hat but fought for the right side. ( an artist )
The other wears a white hat but is rotten to the core. ( a bull-sh t artist )
MK-Ultra notwithstanding… I can’t imagine 2 men made of a more different metal.
I would have said ‘because I want to live my life to it’s fullest, not work 24/7 for minimum pay in a dead end slacker job’.
“I can’t imagine 2 men made of a more different metal.”
Agreed.
“I think he was “given” cancer.”
Jones aside, I would also agree with this. David Flynn was one of my favorites. I think something similar happened to him as well.
Shalom Pix! I have not seen you here for awhile. It’s good to see you. It is always good to see someone like you who is not afraid of the facts bring up the many saviour-figures thru history which is held in common with Christians of today;
May I also add to what you offered though, to take it a little further, to mention a religion that I know is not acknowledged by them, (Christians or Jews)
“Christian suppression of the Biblical Messiah Yahshua/Yahushua (not Jesus) in favour of the promotion of (who you listed, figure/s of Solar/Astral/Planetary Deity’s saviour-figure down thru history) one of those being now called ‘Jesus’But the proof is in the pudding, taken altogether, the figure is the same as those other ancient Solar Deity figures of a saviour son.
Can you tell us here more about the Druidic saviour fifigure, Pix? If you are interested, that is? it is a dubvious endeavor, to try to get truths through brainwashed minds.
Tell us about the sign, the cross. I would like to hear it here from you, who live there in the midst of it (the historical Druidic lands)
Thank you if you feeel like it, in advance, from inquisitive minds Pix I for one appreciate history, they are closing and I mest go sadly before any possible replyes Shalom… all
There are no druid versions as far as I’m aware. There’s a lot of fuzzy thinking about who they were and what their beliefs were. Nothing much remains of their beliefs to tell their story.
About the closest would be the story of Moses with that of Taliesin. A magical character who started life as an assistant to Ceridwen. She had a son who was so ugly nobody wanted anything to do with him, so she went about making a magic potion to give him all the knowledge in the world as compensation. She hired an old man to stir the potion for a year and a day, but he hired a young lad to do it for him. When it was ready, instead of it being taken by the ugly son, it jumped straight out of the pot into the mouth of the young boy.
Ceredwen then chased the boy through different incarnations, he changed to a bear, she changed into a tiger, he changed into a rabbit, she changed into a fox, and so on. Eventually he morphed into a grain of corn and she turned herself into a chicken and ate him. Nine months later she gave birth to Taliesin. She wanted to kill him but couldn’t, so she cast him adrift in a small coracle which got caught in a salmon weir, where he was rescued and adopted by the local king.
This subject has nothing much to do with history, it’s ancient literature that we struggle to comprehend because they didn’t think in the same way about things as we do. Their concepts were much more abstract than ours.
Nice to know at least one person on BiN is interested in reality.
“Tell us about the sign, the cross. I would like to hear it here from you, who live there in the midst of it (the historical Druidic lands)”
The cross within a circle as a sign, has been in use for just about forever by all shamanic people everywhere in the world. The Celts had their own version the Celtic cross.
It represents Earth, the equinoxes and solstice points, and the difference between the spring equinox and Easter which is where the sun has passed over the spring equinox (the so called passover) and starts rising in the astronomical house of the lamb, Aries. Hallelujah, the lamb of god (the sun) has risen = Spring has sprung and indeed lots of lambs are born.
It’s basically a device to work out where you are in the bigger picture, both literally time wise and abstractly in the mind as a meditation focus.
Some have suggested that the Celtic cross was a scientific instrument for measuring the angle of light. I often wonder if ‘angel of light’ is the result of bad spelling. Basically an astrolabe on a stick. It could indeed do that if the equinox line was mobile and not fixed. But like all these claims, unless we dig up an example, we’ll never know for sure.
Example of what I mean by abstract thinking. The snake represents feminine energy it is depicted in the shape of the knife used to cut umbilical cords. A women’s tool and thus probably a reference to midwifery. What the rest of it means is anyones guess.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Serpent_stone.JPG
be interesting to watch you attempting to explain that to Him (the invisible, eternal, immortal King 1Timothy1) when you meet.. He visited me one night at the point of death and sitting to my left AUDIBLY said my name then “I am Jesus, I died for your sins, believe in Me and you will never perish”
Jesus just like the spelling sounds
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John5
The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation Revelation5
if one died for all, then were all dead
2 Corinthians 5
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? Matthew22
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 1
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Philippians2
And Beef, what you said, above, ” But with things related to Scripture, everything is as YHWH wanted it. Whatever Paul’s Letters are or are not, they are or are not precisely according to our Father’s will. You can count on that.”
THAT is something. That is a brilliant thought. Maybe this is a fight we all have to contend with, the issue, by study, prayer (struggle) of Paul and what he was for, who he was for, or not.
It is a very unique tool to get people to study this issue deeply. What a beautiful mystery Yah and Yahushua are! Their angels are watching everything, and every one on this issue. Yah help us all.
If I get to go to the good place I will not be surprised if I have been guilty of not studying this enough and being suspicious of an innocent man. Then I will apologise to him if I am allowed. I will wash his dishes at his feasts or be his servant. Whatever the punishment is, I will deserve.
On the other hand, I don’t think we look at him askance without good cause. Now we need to decide. Read the entire Bible. Whatever Paul contradicts, or seems to, throw it out. His letters were fallible. If you can follow his reasoning and it supports law-keeping to everyone, then we are alright. If anything for that matter or any ONE (or any CHURCH) teaches contradictions to what Yah and Yahushua said to to, if they teach to do the things they said NOT to do, (calling them abhorent, lies, abominations) then, THROW it out of your life.
That remains for most Christians to do. I may be wrong about Paull. But Christians are wrong about Yahueh and Yahushua. (Beef I know you already know this, and I am not saying that to you, just about this issue in general…).
We learn, we act…or we don’t act, and we are doomed… Shalom that is my convoluted wisdom and questions for today, thank you for answering
“Then I will apologise to him if I am allowed.”
Just don’t convict him, sister. Scrutinize him. Learn everything you can about him and his teaching. Word by word, and in context, can you really ever catch Paul pointing away from Messiah or the Law? I can’t.
Where he seems to be is often where we need to search the furthest. Think of it as hints left scattered across the landscape. Our Father knows we make it our habit to lack discipline and diligence, so He points His finger for us and says: DIG HERE.
Beef,
If I may add a little to this discussion: the following is from one of my articles and it points out the difference between Paul and the other 12 Apostles.
“The Apostle Peter warns us in 2 Peter 3:16 that Paul’s writings are difficult to understand and have caused those that are ignorant of the truth and unstable as well — to fall, this is true even in our day. The Apostle Peter did not condemn Paul for what he wrote nor even warn the Saints of God to stay away from Paul’s letters. Peter calls the writings of Paul to be wisdom given him by God. Using the NLT let Peter, who called Paul a beloved brother, speak for himself:
15 “And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—“
16 “Speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.”
Verse 16 needs no comment; it is completely understandable – unless you are ignorant and unstable.
A study of the four Gospels and Acts will show Paul to be the only Apostle educated in the Law and the Prophets. He was taught at the feet of the highly regarded Doctor of the Law, Gamaliel, the same Gamaliel that in Acts 5: 34 advised the priesthood not to kill the Apostles. Thus Paul had a more extensive education in the Torah (The Law and the Prophets) then all the other Apostles and Paul being educated by the best and brightest of the day would have (and many times did) taught and preached at a technical scholarly level. In other words what Paul preached was deep.
This is possibly why Paul writings have caused so much division and fighting, his letters to the Brethren addressed the details and fine points of salvation, to wit: not the 2 + 2 but the algebra of this WAY. In addition, Paul was not taught at the feet of Jesus Christ during Christ’s 3 ½ year ministry as were the other 12 Apostles. Paul was taught the WAY by Jesus Christ from heaven through visions so real he could not tell if it was real life or a vision. Peter in effect, affirmed Paul as an Apostle of Jesus Christ. An Apostle is one personally taught by Jesus Christ. There are only 13.
Truthseeker wrote:
“An Apostle is one personally taught by Jesus Christ. There are only 13.”
I would dispute that number as well as the definition. I contend the number is, and always will be, twelve.
Judas died.
Then there was a lottery to replace Judas. But the definition of Apostle is “one who is SENT”.
Therefore, Apostles are not chosen by lottery. Mathias was never an Apostle because he was not chosen and SENT by Messiah. Paul was.
Peter said the twelve had to be chosen from among men who had been witnesses with them from the beginning. I find no confirming witness for that statement, and Messiah Himself never said it on record in Scripture.
“…and let another take his office.” Psalm 109:8
The replacement for Judas was Paul — not Mathias.
Paul is the 12th Apostle.
Look for Paul’s name to be engraved on the foundation of the City; not Judas and not Mathias.
Yes, you are correct in this. I think I have made this mistake about him in the past. Since I have not read him in a while (in this effort to find once more, finally, what he really means to say) I hae actually given up trying to decide if he is for the Law of Yah or against the law of Yah for gentiles. I guess it made me so mad and tired out mentally and physically trying to make sense of his writings, and make them fit with the rest of the Bible, that I just gave up, it is no use, we really cannot know – if he is right, or wrong, those were my final conclusions more recently.
What you said, about his letter, whether they be this or that, for or against, will be turned to the use of good by IAUE. Those letters do make us wonder and should make us study the rest of th Bible to see if those things be so. Whether or not Paul himself is right or wrong… or whether or not we THINK he is right, or THINK he is wrong! (I know you know and agree with this as you said it before me in better words above). This (your thought) i thought abouyt again this morning, it is so deep and good. Praise Yahuweh. Whether Paul did a good job or a bad job in explaining is kind of another matter, not as important (? maybe) if we look at it this way: take no man’s opinion even Paul’s – as the truth, study everything to see if those things he said are actually true according to the 2 or 3 witnesses (other places) in the Bible. They must agree, and if they do not, there is a problem.
The other matter is of course, is terribly important, the matter of misunderstanding Paul’s words to render the people’s destruction, as anything that teaches against Yah’s law (or thinks that he teaches against Yah’s laws) is going to work towards destroying people’s strength, health, soundness of spirit, blessings..
I absolutely agree with you Beef. Thank you for the consise clarification for people above from you. May IAUE bless you richly, brother in Yahushua… we need more of those gems of wisdom and righteousness and clarification
Shalom and L’Chaim to everybody here too
Beef,
I doubt we can agree on this but here is what I see:
there were 12 and Judas was rejected, Mathias was chosen to replace him bringing the number back to 12, Like you quoted in PS “let another take his office” — and what office did Judas hold? that of Apostle! Mathias was chosen to be an Apostle and he qualified being taught by Christ in person from the beginning.
Christ sent the 12 to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, thus the 12 which now includes Mathias were commissioned to preach to the lost sheep of Israel —and they did!
Paul was taught by Christ – personally- but in vision. Paul was sent, as he himself admitted, to the Gentiles and Not to the lost sheep. Paul is the 13th apostle to the Gentiles.
All 13 were personally taught by Jesus Christ.
In the Kingdom the 12 Apostles including Mathias will have rule over a tribe of Israel —
Who else but Paul should have rule over the Gentiles?
“Paul was taught by Christ – personally- but in vision.”
On what are you basing this part of your statement? — ‘in vision’
“Paul is the 13th apostle to the Gentiles. All 13 were personally taught by Jesus Christ.”
Always possible, Truthseeker, always possible. I suggest not for the reason that Mathias wasn’t chosen by Messiah. I think the other Apostles made an error in judgment when they decided to have a lottery. There are no examples in Scripture of Patriarchs creating (or voting in) other patriarchs, other Tribes creating other tribes, or the like. The pattern of casting lots for election is not repeated elsewhere in Scripture. It also does not seem to satisfy the definition of Apostle, capital ‘A’. The number 12 is too firm a foundational number in Scripture, and the number 13 too laden with connotations of ‘rebellion’.
I’ll bet you a shekel that the name of Paul is on the foundation of the New Jerusalem, and that neither the names of Judas nor Mathias ever make the ‘cut’. I don’t believe Mathias was a Messiah-sent ‘A’postle.
As always, I reserve the right to be wrong.
Beef
II Cor 12:2, had to be in vision as no man has been to the third heaven but Christ.
I read what Paul is saying as : it was so real it was impossible to tell if it was in vision or I was caught up to heaven.
Paul was Called by Christ and taught by Christ.
LOL, all we can do is wait to see how this works out and who is where. It has no part in our salvation, but it is interesting to think and speculate .
The usual satanic lies.
there is so much false teaching these days. are we supposed to be one in the body of Yahuah with Yahushua living in us? this does not make sense to me. how can Yahushua live in us if we are big sinners? i don’t want to argue or judge or point fingers, folks. read your bible. do all of Yah’s Laws. pray all the time. if you happen to sin, go to the Messiah for forgiveness and help not to sin again. the definition of sin is 1 john 3:4. let the Spirit guide you. step back and just listen to Our Father. He will guide you to His will. it is not hard. you may have to give up a few things, but it is so worth it. this is the truth about religion. there is no other truth plain and simple. pray that your ears and eyes and heart be open to Him. i’m afraid for the mess this world is in. the devil tries to run things. may the love of Yahuah come to you all.
“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
—2 Timothy 1:7
Let the reader observe the carnage, as Merkin called it, in this thread from top to bottom and determine who speaks with a sound mind
and who does not 
in this “discussion” between believers of the Gospel of the risen Savior of all mankind Jesus Christ and those who subscribe to another gospel.
Who presents their case plainly and forthrightly and truthfully from the light
of the Word? 
Who speaks in tangents and circles and mumbo jumbo and can’t even choose between light and darkness, and in so doing, chooses the latter?
And who speaks of “evidence” from outside of the Word and can only flail about flimsily and foolishly
while getting filleted 
with the sword of the Word by BEEF and Omega? 
am123 – you and BEEF are far more deserving of any credit than I. Thank you for mentioning me but I really didn’t do so much. I simply did what I could, nothing more, nothing less. I hope that Yahushua Messiah has seen my actions as just and that he may teach me through experiences like these.
Each debate with you has been a pleasure.
Psalm 23:4:
“Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.”
“Thank you for mentioning me but I really didn’t do so much.”
I beg to differ Omega.
But anyway, the pleasure is all mine Omega. When I see brothers like you and BEEF defending the truth it gladdens my heart and is good to see, keep up the good work!
With out doubt; every time this is argued there are a few more who’ve seen Truth win the day. Your efforts, gentlemen, are worthy of our compliments. Your swords are sharp and your armour impregnable.
Look how far we have come in such a short time, who’d of thunk it? Yay for the internets and, most importantly, the Faithful and strong for The Word.
Thank you, that is very interesting Pix.
I didn’t know that the snake was the shape used for the knife… I had forgot that the Goddess holding a handful of snakes is a thing! I had forgotten about the snake re: to the Goddess, only thought of it as being male, or male energy. That is interesting, thank you.
Then, just now reading your replies, I am remembering that the woman and the serpent are so closely intertwined, historically, according to the Bible! (The woman Eve/Hua being the first victim of the snake/serpent, fusing his genes to the human race, and Eve forever after being used by the one of serpentine wisdom (Satan/Lucifer) to depict the feminine part of the triune Godhead !? Wow, you bring up things that blow my mind, and the more we think and learn about it, the more interesting it does get for us, you know what I mean, Pix, I mean I know you do. I don’t know why, for this reason, most Christians turn their heads away from learning these old myths and legends. They lend themselves to history, in some form or another, they are attempts to depict truth, some distant, almost lost truth…its a maze.
Poor Eve. Seduced by a man called a Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, who didn’t resist his intensely strong supernatural allure, ruining her innocent love of life, shaming herself in her childlike beautiful naivete and purity, shaming her poor husband, who loved his wife, (I know you may be getting a kick out of the fact that I do take this literally Pix! unlike Christians, who reduce the acount to an ‘analogy’ of eating a piece of fruit!/the bad apple!
sad) and did the thing they were warned not to do as she said it was good and lovely and to be desired in every way…
then, poor Adam, loving his companion so much that he stuck with her thru the raising of another son, not of his loins, that had to be awfully hard, every day, I feel so bad for Eve and for Adam… then, for the child of theirs that was murdered by the Devil’s seed son….
And we think we have it bad now? Well, we do. Serpent seed now is (thinking) probably residing in all of us. That is why I think the Kundalini energy at the ‘base of the spine’ is being raised with all this ritual and invocation and also Pix, the denatureing of the human in his natural state: the debilitating of the human creature, the human being is methodically being subverted into a weakened species, unable to think clearly, because of the GMOs, the vaccines, the poisons they spray, put (in food, air, water supplies) and they sit back and laugh at the effects of their warfare on the human population.
Yes, I guess we do have our own modern version of hell on earth, just like Adam and Hua.
It makes me want to cry now for them and for us.
I think I need some natural remedy Pix.
Thank you for your most interesting facts. I remember you offered a Franz Cumont excerpt of the Mithra and Jesus identity.. he saying they were one and the same. But I don’t know where I asked you that, so if you already answered that months ago, I apologise. Can you put it here if you can, again, Pix for these Christian people who have no idea of the sameness of the Church Jesus and Mithra/s?
The Celtic Cross is very interesting to me Pix. The leaves, the winding vines that are often seen growing around it… the Green Man and the Oak Tau are fascinating to me how the Druids (this is in the account of a Roman I forgot whiich one, ?) would go into the forest and choose the tallest Oak, most magestic, and cut off lots of the lesser branches from the trunk and then leave just two main ones, to make it look like a Tau Cross, then they would say that it was the abode of their God and it lived in its spirit there in that particular Oak, and carve many different smaller crosses around the trunk. I find this is so highly fascinating.
My brother said once that I have an unhealthy interest in the occult. Yet, who is he to say any interest in facts and history is unhealthy, Pix, that is what I thought. He is the victim of the practises of the ones who use the occult to harm other people. I think no knowledge if used for progress, true progress is unhealthy. We are told by the Creator Yah (that is the God of the Bible, Christians, by the way, not ‘God Lord’, just saying…) to gain knowledge, get knowledge, yes, of Yahuweh, but also of everyday life things – science, history, health, nature… and yet, people are afraid to examine things. I say, to my brother, To hell with that thinking, bro, you are happily ignorant, and I am sick of ignorance and its effect on people and animals and the land and our Creators have to be crying sad or furious mad or angry as all hell for the way we have enshrined IGNORANCE as our principle to ‘remain righteous’ ! … my word it makes you want to hurl… and if I put myself in their place just for a moment, I’d have cast the asteroids down here long ago…to torch this place of hellish existence in ignorance and insatiable desire for blood and misery. I say, get knowledge and ge out of that system.
Well, as usual, Pix, too long, but I have to leave in a little bit, so .. thank you for your infomraiton,, I will be thinking on that and looking up more things about it!
=D Shalom and have a good day/evening Pix and wife
No, actually, Christians do not reduce it to an analogy of the fruit-eating they actually SAY IT IS a sin of fruit-eating literally!!! omg.. that’s sad
and so stupid, I know their leaders know the truth, and they are such hypocrites not to talk truth to these poor people, dutifully sitting there in the pews waiting to be saved by truth from their lying mouths…
I hate these people who lie to the sheep who are so damned dutiful… SAD, BEYOND SAD! now, I am getting angry, instead of sad… this is not good
Well, again – thank you just wanted to clarify/correct that what I said above to you Pix,
again, Shalom from Virginia land of battles and weirdness across the Atlantic…the ‘New Atlantis’ Merica!
Goodnight to you in the Beautiful Isles
Wake up people. This train-wreck is coming to a City near you:
http://rikijo.blogspot.com
Excellent read; excellent articles
Spread the word……..
I am confused. So, what are you saying IS the truth about the resurrection? It’s all well and good to point out error, but that does not automatically demonstrate what the truth is. What Bible texts are you referring to? Do you have a link where your point of view is explained more in depth? I am interested in learning more.
No, I don’t think this was it, it was only part of it, and re-incarnation is not scriptural. I also would like what you asked for, above.
Good Evening to all, here is something that I missed at the time and wondered at why I-Omega says this thing? To quote him whose accusation of Talmud-following to one who obviously is against these things, as the Torah and the rest of the Bible is against these things, makes no sense whatsoever.
Are you that ignorant, I-Omega? Or are you this vicious? Why don’t you call yourself something original, Omega Files already took that name?
Your vicious comment is not only stupid and hatefilled, but lacks all common sense.
quoting: “I-OMEGA
Keep in mind, Michael, NEVER to “take orders” from a psychopath zionist jew boy, who reads his holy book, the Talmud, EVERY DAY!
Everything Cory, omega files says, IS A LIE!
Keep that in mind.
What follows are some of Cory’s favorite passages from the Talmud!
Remember, that Beef supreme and Cory ARE THE SAME PERSON!
Cory, the Omega the zionist paid SHILL, also known on BIN as Beef Supreme!
LET US READ YOUR HOLY BOOK TOGETHER, “SCREWER OF BABIES”!
THE “holy book” that, if not designated as “religious”, would get jews thrown in prison for promoting pedophilia!
The talmud.
“A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old”
(Sanhedrin 54b).
“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing”
(Kethuboth 11b).
“Jesus is in hell, being boiled in “hot excrement”
(Gittin 57a).
“Mary, the mother of Jesus, was a whore and played the harlot with carpenters”
(Sanhedrin, 106a, 106b
“[Christ] practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy”
(Sanhedrin, 43a).
“Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament”
(Shabbath 116a).
“A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old”
(Sanhedrin 54b).
“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing”
(Kethuboth 11b).
“A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest”
(Yebamoth 59b).
“All gentile children are animals”
(Yebamoth 98a).
“Jews may use lies (‘subterfuges’) to circumvent a Gentile”
(Baba Kamma 113a).
“When a Jew murders a gentile (‘Cuthean’), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep” (Sanhedrin 57a)”
Again, Omega Files is definitely NOT FOR THIS, if you have read any of his posts with an honest heart and right head, you would know how futile and retarded your hate has made you. I think you must be jealous. of Omega Files, I-Omega. That seems to be what your motivation is.
You are mad, you are angry, what about a smart man who likes to learn about The Hebrew Authentic Messiah and the Father with the Hebrew Sacred Name makes you so damn furious?
Lie back, on this couch, and make yourself comfortable. Honesty is your friend. Lies and hate of goodness and truth will make you die some day. you don’t want to die, do you?