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The Cross & The “Born Again” Jesus Deception

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Pastor Joseph Chambers

It sounds unbelievable. Surely nobody believes that “Jesus Christ” the Son of the living God had to be “born again.”

Add to that idea that He took the nature of Satan and became just as vile in His spirit as the devil himself. Could this idea or doctrine actually be at the very foundation of a religious movement that calls itself Christian? It is true, though hard to believe, that leading ministers who are followed by millions around the world actually teach this dark idea. Here are the actual words of Kenneth Hagin: “Physical death would not remove our sins. He tasted death for every man – spiritual death. Jesus is the first person ever to be born again. Why did His spirit need to be born again? Because it was estranged from God.” (The Name Of Jesus, Kenneth E. Hagin, pp. 29-30)

Mr. Hagin totally denies that the physical death, the shedding of Jesus’ blood, would remove our sins. As he continues this discussion, he states that: “spiritual death also means having Satan’s nature.” (Ibid., p. 31) In other words, Jesus had to take on the demonic nature of the devil and go to hell. In hell, under Satan’s bondage, the Son of God was “born again.” To make matters worse, Mr. Hagin plainly states that Jesus was not the only Begotten Son of God until He was “born again” in hell and then resurrected. Only at this moment was He the “Only Begotten.” Here are his words: “No, thou are my son, this day have I begotten thee’ is not talking about the day He took upon Himself a body. Then what day was it? When was it that Jesus was begotten? When He was raised up! On that Resurrection morn! Why did He need to be begotten or born? Because He became like we were, separated from God. Because He tasted death for every man, His spirit, His inner man, went to hell in our place.” (Ibid. p. 29)

“The Cross” is Rejected by Hagin

The only reasonable explanation of this whole doctrine of a “born again Jesus” is the rejection of the cross of Jesus Christ. The blood of our redemption as the only plan or possibility for forgiveness and new redeemed life has been totally denied by Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Paul and Jan Crouch, and the majority of the Charismatic world. To explain a “born again Jesus” is any lesser words is to play games with this foul doctrine. The plain statement by Hagin, “physical death would not remove our sins,” is a statement of finality. The only way His blood could have been shed for us is by His physical death. To suggest anything needed above or beyond that act of “the shedding of blood” is heresy. Jesus Himself said, “It is finished.” (John 19:30)

Kenneth Hagin does not end his questionable teaching at this level. He clearly states that no one can understand the authority in the Name of Jesus until they understand the “born again Jesus.” He emphasizes this as follows: “You will not be able to understand the authority in the name of Jesus until you understand this fact. Down in the prison house of suffering, down in hell itself, Jesus satisfied the claims of justice on the behalf of each one of us, because He dies as our substitute.” (Ibid. p. 33)

This makes Jesus a totally different person than the “Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.” (John 1:29) The prophetic idea of a lamb as a type of Christ’s death was the heartthrob of the First Testament sacrifices. Jesus’ death was a perfect fulfillment of that First Testament shadow. Messianic prophecies all show His “blood sacrifices” as the perfect act of redemption. There is not one type in the Old Testament prophecies, which does not suggest “blood” as God’s accepted offering for our sin. It is so firmly established that to argue further is to belittle the facts.

As Hagin develops his teaching on this subject, he appears to also support the idea of the “Jesus Only” heresy. He quoted a book by E.W. Kenyon, who is well known as a meta-physical cult writer. Mr. Kenyon was quoted by Hagin as stating: “He has given to Him the name that has within it the fulness of the Godhead…” (Ibid. p. 37) Leaving off the Biblical word “bodily” totally changes the Scripture as written by Apostle Paul. “For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9) Jesus was not the “fulness of the Godhead” but the “fulness of the Godhead bodily.” It was in His person as the Son of man to reveal all that God is to the human race.

But He continues. He stated in his chapter, entitled “The Name and Baptism,” “I believe in being baptized in the Name of Jesus. I do not believe in being baptized in the name of ‘Jesus only.’ When I baptize people in water, I say this, “In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I now baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” (Ibid. p. 68) This statement appears to be an effort to please the “Oneness” doctrine and the Trinity truth all at the same time. Further on in this same book, he quotes Kenyon again. This time he said, “We are baptized into the name, and being baptized in the name, we are being baptized into Christ Himself.” (Ibid. p. 117) The “Oneness” theology teaches that we are not assured of salvation until we are baptized in His name and into Christ Himself. These statements in Kenneth Hagin’s book only serve to make his teaching on the “Born Again Jesus” more questionable.

Kenneth Copeland: To Another Level

Kenneth Hagin is the mentor of Kenneth Copeland. As always in false doctrines, the ideas continue in a downward spiral. Copeland takes this idea to a greater extreme. Here are his words. Copeland said, “The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, ‘Son realize this.’ Now, follow me in this. Don’t let your tradition trip you up. He said, ‘Think this way. A twice born man whipped by Satan in his own domain, ‘and I threw my Bible and I said, ‘What!’ He said, ‘A born again defeated Satan. The first born of many brethren defeated.’ He said, ‘You are the very image and the very copy of that one.’ I said, ‘Goodness, gracious sakes alive!’ And it just began, I began to see what had gone on in there. And I said, ‘Well, now, you don’t mean, you couldn’t dare mean that I could have done the same thing.’ He said, ‘Oh, Yeah, if you’d known and had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could have done the same thing, ‘cause you are a reborn man, too.’ He said, ‘The same power that I used to raise Him from the dead, I used to raise you from your death in trespasses and sin.’ He said, ‘I had to have that copy of that pattern to establish judgment on Satan, so that I could recreate a child, and a family, and a whole new race of mankind.’ And He said, ‘You are in His likeness.’” (Audio Voice, undated)

This idea of the “Born Again Jesus” serves to reveal what lies at the heart of this teaching. They are not dealing with men and women saved by the Blood, but with the cultic idea of creating a superior race of godlike humans. Note Copeland’s words that came to him by revelation from the/a spirit. “I had to have that copy of that pattern to establish judgment on Satan so I could recreate a child, and a family, and a whole new race of mankind.”

Frederick K.C. Price: To An Even Deeper Level:

Let’s see what Fred Price says about this poison that Kenyon, Hagin, and Copeland have made so popular. Price stated: “Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God…Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence.” (Ever Increasing Faith Message, June 1980 Audio) This statement makes no bones about denying the Blood sacrifice on the cross. This individual that Price is discussing is not the Son of God, but “I believe” it is a lying spirit masquerading as the “Son of God.” Satan hates the Blood above every truth in Holy Scripture. Nothing is so totally defeating to the devil as the “Precious Blood of the Lamb of God.”

Jan Crouch makes a great boast on a book written by Paul Billheimer. She has often spoken of this book and on our video, “The Born Again Jesus Deception,” she even speaks of Jesus burning like a cracker in hell. Let’s read a quote that she approvingly (by Paul Crouch) read on a live TBN telecast. This was during a communion service. “Because He was ‘made sin,’ impregnated with sin, and became the very essence of sin, on the cross He was banished from God’s presence as a loathsome thing. He and sin were made synonymous…[I]t was not sufficient for Christ to offer up only His physical life on the cross. His pure spirit had to ‘descend’ into hell…His spirit must not only descent into hell, but into the lowest hell…The Father turned Him over, not only to the agony and death of Calvary, but to the satanic torturers of His pure spirit as part of the just dessert of the sin of all the race. As long as Christ was ‘the essence of sin,’ He was at Satan’s mercy in that place of torment…While Christ identified with sin, Satan and the hosts of hell ruled over Him as over any lost sinner. During that seemingly endless age in the nether abyss of death, Satan did with Him as he would, and all hell was ‘in carnival.’” (Destined For The Throne, Paul E. Billheimer, Sped., pp. 83-84.)

Could A Defiled Jesus, Save?

The question that begs our answer is “could a defiled Jesus that had become satanic in nature save mankind from sin?” Notice that Mr. Billheimer said that Jesus was “impregnated with sin.” He called Jesus a “loathsome thing.” The Bible speaks of him as “being made perfect” in His suffering, not a loathsome thing.

It’s amazing to read the new edition of the Paul Billheimer book issued after his death. His wife states the following about the use of his book to apparently support a “born again Jesus” and the changes she directed under her supervision. “Prior to his death Mr. Billheimer expressed concerns that some of his statements had been taken to unbiblical extremes by readers of Destined For The Throne. This revised edition, updated under my supervision to more precisely convey his views, underscores the distinction between God and His creation, both in the present world and during our eternal reign with Christ. It also makes clear the Cross as the focus of Christ’s completed suffering.” (Ibid. General Editor’s Preface)

Benny Hinn Received the Same Revelation

This doctrine of the “born again Jesus” is called “revelation knowledge.”Almost everyone that I have researched states the same. Jan Crouch told about Paul Billheimer (Our video, “The Born Again Jesus Deception”) receiving this revelation. She stated how overwhelmed he was and how he had such a hard time ever writing down. She also states that the publishers argued about publishing it. The Bible is of no private interpretation. You can always be certain when someone comes up with an idea called “revelation knowledge” that you are dealing with deception. The devil is a master at imitation and if he can get religious people to move beyond plain truth into mystical doctrines, he can create havoc.

Listen as Benny Hinn is receiving “revelation knowledge” right on a TBN television program. “My, you know, whoosh! The Holy Ghost is just showing me some stuff. I’m getting dizzy! I’m telling you the truth – it’s, it’s just heavy right now on me…He’s [referring to Jesus] in the underworld now. God isn’t there, and the Bible says He was begotten. Do you know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don’t let anyone deceive you. Jesus was reborn. You say, ‘What are you talking about?’…He was reborn. He had to be reborn…If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn. Jesus was born again…If He was not reborn, I would never be reborn. How can I face Jesus and say, ‘Jesus, you went through everything I’ve gone through, except the new birth?”…(Benny Hinn, Our Position in Christ, Part One, Video tape # TV – 254.)

The “Jesus Only Connection”

The idea of a “born again Jesus” is strangely connected to the “Jesus Only” doctrine. In both camps, you have a confused picture of Jesus Christ’s birth, when He became the anointed, when He was begotten, and other questionable ideas. William Branham is being heralded today by the Charismatic leaders as a great prophet. He stated that his miracles were performed by his angel assigned to him. They often pictured him with a halo around his head.

He was a staunch “Jesus Only” believer. He stated unequivacably that the doctrine of the “trinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” was a doctrine of devils. Here is a quote that I took from a sermon aired on R.G. Stair’s radio broadcast. He stated, “How can He be an eternal Son when eternity never ends and Son is something that is begotten of, how can it make sense?” (Radio Message, undated.) How do the leaders of our day call this man a great prophet unless they share his “Jesus Only” teaching.

Finis Dake, in his Bible and commentary, clearly presents a Jesus that missed the Biblical model. While Dake shows no leaning toward the “born again Jesus” or “the Jesus Only,” his doctrines certainly have been picked up by the Charismatic leaders such as Copeland, Hinn, and others. Read carefully this commentary that Dake uses to begin the New Testament Commentary. Mind you that this is the first commentary of the entire New Testament. It must be very important. “Gr. Christos, ‘Anointed.’ – Used in N.T. 577 times. Like the name “Jesus” it has no reference to deity, but to the humanity of the Son of God, who became the Christ or the “Anointed One” 30 years after He was born of Mary. God “made” Him both Lord and Christ. The Heb. Is ‘Messiah.’” (Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible, Finis Jennings Dake, published by Dake Bible Sales, Inc, Lawrenceville, Georgia, New Testament, p. 1)

The new faces in the Charismatic world are beginning to reflect “Jesus Only” personalities. T.D. Jakes is clearly a “oneness” (we like to call them two-less) minister. He clearly states his concept on God in a rebuttal to Christianity Today. These are his words. “The rites of baptism are celebrated in our church by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ. I have always, without exception, baptized as the early church did in Acts 2:38, 10:44 and 9:1-4. That is my conviction, based on Scripture.” (Christianity Today, Website by Bishop T.D. Jakes, entitled “My View on the Godhead.”) Another “Jesus Only” leader is Tommy Tenney, author of The God Chasers. This book is one of the most deceiving books I have read. He stated clearly in a Charisma interview that he believed in three manifestations of God. This was in response to a question about his background in the United Pentecostal Church (UPC). His answer stating that he believed in “three manifestations” is a classical UPC answer. They deny “Jesus Only” and call themselves “oneness.”

Conclusion

There are many variations of almost everything believed in Charismatic circles. Probably the one idea believed in some version in almost all camps of the Charismatic main leaders is the teaching of a “born again Jesus.” This is also the most damnable teaching in their midst. This makes Jesus into a militant and arrogant person, instead of the “meek, compassionate, Lamb of God.”

Satan hates the simple “Gospel.” The blood of Jesus alone can redeem and transform the soul into a new creation. Any teaching or doctrine that reduces or reflects negatively in reference to the “cross” is to be rejected. Apostle Paul, the veteran of spiritual warfare, stated, “But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.” (Galatians 6:14) “I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus Name” and Him crucified.

 

 

 

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    Total 42 comments
    • LampStand-of-Flames

      All flesh was of Sin. Even though The Word of God=The Son was manifested into a virgin and born…
      The flesh was still Sin. And had to be born again=baptized and saved! :idea:

      • Neo

        You’re talking gnosticism not gospel.

        • Endtime

          About “born again”:
          Jesus said: «Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.» Nicodemus asked him: «How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?» (John 3.3-4, cf. John 3.7). Hence Nicodemus didn’t realize that it would have to be a new mother. In modern Bible texts Jesus is quoted as follows: «…except a man be born from above…», which theology wants to explain this way: The Greek word anothen has a double sense and can mean both «again» (or «a second time») and «from above». Jesus is said to have meant «from above» and Nicodemus is said to have understood «the second time» or rather «again». This is obviously nonsense since they didn’t speak Greek. They spoke Aramaic! The Aramaic language has no double-sense word that would fit here, but a single-sense word mille’ela, which means «from above», and another single-sense word taneyanut, which means «again, once more, anew». A misunderstanding is not possible and Nicodemus’ question clearly indicates that Jesus used the latter word.
          Cf. Rudolf Schnackenburg on John 3,3: «In Aramaic there is no word that like in Greek would allow for both meanings…»

      • BEEF SUPREME

        Saint,

        Messiah was sinless: (Hebrews 4:15, 1 John 3:5). Therefore, the sin-nature of original sin is passed via the father’s DNA only, and not the mother’s. It is for this reason that the Virgin Birth was an absolute pre-requisite for Messiah’s work as the Son of Man on Earth.

        You wrote:

        “The flesh was still Sin.”

        This is a direct contradiction of Scripture.

        “And had to be born again=baptized and saved!”

        Messiah had to die as a blood sacrifice of atonement for the sins of Adam-kind. Messiah Himself did not need to be saved. He Himself IS Salvation. His Name literally means: Salvation.

        • max jones

          …Beef…good post. You got him….he won’t recognize it, though.
          …The Hebrew says ‘Born again’ is actually ‘born from above’. :cool:

        • max jones

          …. t could the Greek translation, not Hebrew. Where is that edit button? :cool:

      • max jones

        …saint…I think that Christ went to John at the river… as an example, not as a requisite for his own salvation…He needed no salvation, nor deliverance….its all for us…..
        …getting close to heresy, there bro. :cool:

        • yes2truth

          You’re both wrong.

          When Yashua Messiah was born The Devil didn’t know who He was, hence Herod massacred ALL the infants two years old and under hoping that Yashua Messiah would be one of them.

          After Yashua Messiah was baptised and The Holy Spirit came upon Him THEN, and only THEN, could The Devil identify Him through Holy Spirit indwelling Him. It was THEN that The Devil tempted Him.

          http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/

          http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/

          http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/

        • max jones

          …yes…good point. :cool:

        • Anonymous

          Yes2truth were all wrong, only the lamb is worthy. Matthew 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it ? from heaven, or from men?…… you know the rest…..then we have John 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

        • Anonymous

          did you find that edit button max ? i knead IT

        • yes2truth

          @ Mattrick

          I am not wrong – I have been made right – a new creation – born anew – born again – born from above – born of God – indwelled by the Holy Spirit – just as Yashua Messiah was.

          Now what point are you trying to make?

        • Anonymous

          The point was ” The Devil didn’t know who he was, ” I believe he did. read Job again.

        • yes2truth

          The you believe in error. What has Job got to do with it?

          You also have to explain how The Devil did NOT inform Herod who Yashua Messiah was so that He was killed as an infant. Which means your Job parallel does not work.

      • MikeSavage

        Saint of Jesus Christ:
        YOUR POST:

        All flesh was of Sin. Even though The Word of God=The Son was manifested into a virgin and born…
        The flesh was still Sin. And had to be born again=baptized and saved!

        JESUS WAS NOT BORN OF SIN. JESUS HAD NO SIN, EVER. HE DIDN’T NEED TO BE “BORN AGAIN”, SINCE THE TERM MEANS TO SYMBOLICALLY WASH OFF THE SINFUL PERSONALITY AND TO TAKE ON THE RIGHTEOUS PERSONALITY. THAT WAS NEVER REQUIRED OF JESUS. HE WAS PERFECT. WHAT YOU POSTED IS SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH, I CAN’T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU COULD, IN GOOD CONSCIENCE, HAVE POSTED IT. JESUS BAPTISM WAS AN EXAMPLE TO THOSE WHO WANTED TO TAKE ON THE CHRISTIAN PERSONALITY, NOT TO WASH OFF HIS SINFUL PERSONALITY. YOU SHOULD REALLY STUDY THE WORD OF GOD, AND STOP BELIEVING WHAT FALSE RELIGION TEACHES YOU. ALL RELIGIONS CREATED BY MAN, AND ALL RELIGIONS CLAIMING TO BE “CHRISTIAN”, ARE FALSE. THOSE CLAIMING CHRISTIANITY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, THEY ARE PART OF CHRISTENDOM. IT’S HALF PAGAN HALF CHRISTIAN, AND THEREFORE ABHORRENT TO GOD. STUDY WHAT JESUS SAID ABOUT THOSE RELIGIONS. STUDY WHAT HE SAID ABOUT ALL RELIGIONS. ALL ARE FALSE AND DESTINED TO DESTRUCTION IN THE FINAL BATTLE, AS ARE THEIR PARTICIPANTS.

    • LampStand-of-Flames

      Poor flesh men try to learn with flesh eye’s and ear’s -instead of being born again and then seeing/hearing with Spiritual eye’s and ear’s. they try to learn -but can Not due to being blinded by their own SIN! :idea:

      • Journas

        Are you saying because we’re not born again we think Jesus didn’t have to be born again?

        • MikeSavage

          Jesus had himself baptized as an EXAMPLE for us to wash off the old personality, and take on the new righteous personality. Born again is a figure of speach.

      • MikeSavage

        Sin doesn’t blind people, Satan does. Satan also inspires sin. Satan also leads people AWAY from God the almighty using false religions. They are ALL false religions.

    • CuPb

      Tick/Tock goes the clock. When the clock strikes, it will be too late.

      Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
      Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
      Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
      Rom 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
      Rom 14:11 For it is written: “AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO GOD.”
      Rom 14:12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

      EVERY knee shall bow. It will be most unfortunate if you bow yours from a standpoint of adversity rather than from a standpoint of acceptance. Regardless, you WILL bend your knee to the King of Kings.

    • ChristianAmericanPatriot

      Amazing how satan keeps our minds filled with other things except focusing on the word of GOD.

      • max jones

        …patriot….always has been like that. :cool:

      • MikeSavage

        Revelation 12:7

         And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

        Satan misleads all. If when searching our hearts, God sees an honest hearted person, He uses holy spirit to help that one plow through the misleadings of Satan, and to then discern the accurate meaning of scriptures. Without that help from God, it is IMPOSSIBLE to understand, accurately, His inspired word.

        Satan uses many things to mislead us. Peer pressure, advertising, movies, printed word, government officials, apostates, etc. etc. etc.

    • Room With a View

      All sin is attributed to Azazel. – Book of Enoch. Of course the book of Enoch had to be disqualified from the KJV because if people knew this fact then the church (Roman) would never have been able to get the power that it has. Yeshua came to fulfill the requirement of the Law of Moses. It is a blasphemy to say that he became sin.

    • Endtime

      Jesus had a special mission that has been silenced down and b lacked out by the Church.
      See http://www.christian-reincarnation.com/JesMMiss.htm and http://www.christian-reincarnation.com/HistChrist.htm.
      Read and think.

    • The Real Deal

      The bible is not meant to be taken literally. Jesus is the SUN. And the cross is the summer and winter solstices and the Spring and Fall Equinox’s. And of course Jesus (the Sun) is born again. He is ever year when he rises back above the Equator after the Winter Solstice where it died on Dec. 21st (shortest day of the year) and on Dec. 25th the Sun is BORN AGAIN (like every year), and begins it’s ascension 1 degree North back towards the Equator, where on Mar. 21st (the Spring Equinox) the sun is back above the Equator and begins it’s six reign above the Equator until Sept. 21st, where the Sun drops back below the Equator…the cycle is repeated every year, and has nothing to do with a real person.

      • The Real Deal

        Six month reign above the equator until Sept. 21st. Sorry for the typo.

    • MikeSavage

      So many complete misunderstanding of God’s inspired word.

    • faithbrother

      whoa really wrong ,people should not make up dumb stuff. Jesus is/was the Lamb of God.
      He IS WORTHY.

      • max jones

        ….brother……Jesus Christ IS God. :cool:

        • MikeSavage

          Nowhere in the inspired word of God does it say that Jesus is God. It says Jesus is a god. It says many are gods, but not God the Almighty. It does say that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. It does say Jesus is God’s SON. It does say God is greater than Jesus. Jesus prayed to God. Did he pray to himself? Did he send himself? Did he resurrect himself? It says Jesus is God’s master worker. It does NOT say Jesus is God. Nowhere in the scriptures is the pagan concept of a triune God mentioned. There is but ONE God the Almighty. It does say that there has never been a God before Jehovah, and there will never be one after Him. So your postulation that Jesus is God is false.

        • max jones

          …savage….that could be THE most arrogant thing you’ve ever written…and son….’youda king of self congratulation’…. so this one is special. I can take you to the scriptures, but as it turns out, we don’t use congruent scripture. so, how about you tell us How you got this information, and why you believe it’s right. You know chapter and verse….HARD INFO….would it help if I dared ya? :cool:

        • MikeSavage

          max jones:
          YOUR POST:
          …savage….that could be THE most arrogant thing you’ve ever written…and son….’youda king of self congratulation’…. so this one is special. I can take you to the scriptures, but as it turns out, we don’t use congruent scripture. so, how about you tell us How you got this information, and why you believe it’s right. You know chapter and verse….HARD INFO….would it help if I dared ya?
          NO, YOU PROVE THAT JESUS IS GOD. NOT ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE, PROVIDED YOU USE AN ACCURATE TRANSLATION, SAYS THAT JESUS IS GOD. THERE IS NO TRINITY SUPPORTED IN THE SCRIPTURES EITHER. IF YOU WANT TO, TRY AND PROVE YOUR POINT. MAKE SURE, THOUGH, THAT YOU’RE NOT USING FALSELY TRANSLATED BIBLES TO DO IT. BE SURE THAT YOUR TRANSLATION FROM HEBREW INTO ENGLISH, AND GREEK INTO ENGLISH IS SPOT ON. IF YOU USE ANYTHING LIKE A KING JAMES, YOUR INFORMATION WOULD BE TOTALLY INVALID.

    • Pix

      ” Jesus is the first person ever to be born again.”

      LOL. Christianity = plagiarists r us. You’re not helping your honesty image by telling blatant lies.

      :lol:

      • max jones

        …PIX….You constantly attack christianity, and try to mislead people…..and then you get angry cause I don’t respect you…..wow. :cool:

        • MikeSavage

          Max;
          You’ve finally said something I agree with.

        • max jones

          …savage…don’t let that go to your head. :cool:

      • MikeSavage

        Pix;
        When spoken of in the scriptures, the term “born again” means babtism. The washing off of the old personality, and the taking on of the new personality that is in complete harmony with what God requires of us. When Jesus was babtized, John the Babtizer had babtized THOUSANDS of people before Jesus came to him from the wilderness. Jesus most certainly was NOT the first person to be “born again”. At least not from what any and all scriptures say.

      • MikeSavage

        Since being baptized is SYMBOLIC of washing off or killing off the old sinful personality, and taking on the new righteous personality, your statement about Jesus being the first one to be “born again” is to also say that Jesus had a sinful personality. Surely you don’t believe that. Jesus NEVER sinned. Not once. Not ever. Therefore your assertion is completely erroneous.

    • Crazy times

      Mike Savage: you wrote:1/ ” Nowhere in the inspired word of God does it say that Jesus is God”2/ ‘It does NOT say Jesus is God”.3/ “Nowhere in the scriptures is the pagan concept of a triune God mentioned”4/ “Jesus is God is false”

      I have noted you are a JW (EMPHASIS ADDED ARE MINE)

      Philippians 2:6 :5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
      King James Bible
      Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with God:

      -John 1:1
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.

      John 5:18
      For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself Equal with God.

      John 10:33
      “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because YOU, a mere man, CLAIM TO BE GOD.”

      John 17:5
      And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you BEFORE the WORLD BEGAN.

      2 Corinthians 4:4
      The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, WHO IS the image of GOD

      Hosea 13:4 Yet .. I AM .. the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me

      Isaiah 43:11 I, even… I, AM… the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

      MIKE….WHO IS….. I AM … this is the Almighty speaking …

      Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.

      Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?” 14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel,… ‘I AM …has sent me to you.’” 15God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ THIS IS My NAME FOREVER, and this is My memorial-name to ALL generations.…

      Isaiah 42:8 “I AM the LORD; THAT IS MY NAME!

      BE STILL and KNOW… I AM…GOD……Psalm 46:10

      John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life:,John 14:6 He said ‘I AM the way and the truth Revelation 1:8 – “I AM… the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is (Old Testament).. and who was (New testament Jesus )….and who is to come..( Y’shua) ‘…, the Almighty.” Yah =God shua= salvation = Y’shua Gods salvation = Jesus returned.

      GOD DIED for us Revelation 1:18 King James Bible
      I AM… he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold,.. I AM… alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

      DID the disciples worshiped HIM as GOD….YES

      John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my GOD!”…..(Jesus did not rebuke OR reject this statement.)

      THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT for you to UNDERSTAND MIKE.

      John 8:24 – 23And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I AM from above; you are of this world, I AM not of this world. 24″Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.” 25So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning?……AS FOLLOWS

      John 4:26
      Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you–I AM He.”

      John 13:19
      “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen YOU WILL BELIEVE that..” I AM WHO I AM”.

      Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. this is my Name forever.

      I’ll pray you see it as time is short.

      • max jones

        ….crazy….Good going thank you….I believe you covered it…well. :cool:

        • Crazy times

          …Mad Max… keep calm and carry on :cool:

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