Did Paul Teach the Law Is Not Included in the New Covenant?
The majority of “nominal” Christianity teaches Jesus Christ ended GOD”S LAW at the stake in spite of the fact Christ meticulously observed and taught — “HIS” — TORAH Law during His 3 ½ year ministry.
AND
The teachings of Paul when studied word by word and confirmed by logic, reveals the LAW i.e. the TORAH was never omitted never removed from the New Covenant!
Hebrews 8
7 For if that first [covenant] had been — faultless, –then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with – “them”, – he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah:
The two “Parties” to the New Covenant are the LORD AND:
NOT the gentiles; NOT “all” peoples; NOT Christians BUT only with the House of Israel first and then - with – the House of Judah.
Paul states: — THE “FAULT” — is with the PEOPLE– NOT — with – the – LAW, not with the contract! Where is it stated the Law should not have been in the first covenant or contract?? Where is it stated God’s HOLY Righteous Law was an unnecessary, unjust burden and a curse upon the people?
The “curse of the Law”– IS — death for disobediences – the Law itself is NOT a curse. Do you truly believe it is a “curse” and an evil burden that you are commanded not to lie or murder or fornicate ??
Removing the Law from the New Covenant as THE “contractual duty” of Israel i.e. the “consideration”, would simply invalidate the contract.
A contract without a “consideration” is not a valid contract: ask any attorney!
To make this clear: if you agreed to buy a house and the purchase contract contained no purchase price (consideration), no agreement to pay a certain price for the house – it would be an unenforceable contract! How could a person purchase or buy a home without an agreed upon purchase price?
If the New Covenant only contained “promises” - from God – with nothing required from the People, it would no longer be a valid contract i.e. a Covenant; it would simply be a “promise’. A new covenant without a “consideration” which the first had — is not an enforceable covenant.
If God simply made a ‘promise’ to His people – an unconditional promise – nothing from the people would be required; BUT for it to be a contract between God and the people then to receive the promises of God the people must DO SOMETHING in exchange for receiving the promise otherwise it is not a contract it would simply be a “promise”.
Do you think God does not follow HIS OWN LAWS?? How can you have faith or TRUST, in a god that CHANGES DIRECTIONS EVERY OTHER DAY? Which is the reason I trust no man — their word changes moment by moment.
Today if you break the Sabbath you are put to death and tomorrow it’s OK???? Really that is the god YOU TRUST??
Paul, in Hebrews 8, is making the case for a change “TO” or a “conversion” ‘OF’ the people – not a change that would abolish the Law but one that would convert the nature of the people.
If the Law were simply eliminated from the contract how would that benefit the people?
Removing the Law does not change the nature of the people; Israel would still fight and murder, still worship idols, still fornicate and still steal, lie and lust.
If the Law were removed then murder etc. would no longer be a sin. If there were no law against murder — then murder is not a crime — not a sin.
How is it “so called” Christians refuse to understand the logic behind this simply statement of fact above: and refuse they do!!
For there to be something called – SIN – there MUST Be a Law that codifies what SIN – “IS” – a list of human actions that specifically identifies, specifically points out — what IS SIN.
If there were NO SPECIFIC LAW stating murder is a sin – repenting from being a murderer is not possible! The term murder would not exist, maybe only the term killed would be used.
I have found folks simply refuse to allow logic, fact and truth that will destroy their house of cards — into their minds. Is that you??
One purpose of the First Covenant was to motivate the children of Israel to obey the LAW and thus NOT SIN. It is that simple! If Israel obeyed God’s Law, God would then physically bless them. See Leviticus 26: 1 – 13.
“If you wash your hands before eating I will give you a cookie afterwards.”
Actually there is more to it then this as living – contrary – to God’s Law Results in the destruction of LIFE and God wants men to LIVE to fulfill HIS purpose for creation.
Living contrary to the Holy Law of God ‘NATURALLY’ produces the negative results of death. If you stop drinking water you will –naturally – die. That is a “natural” LAW. God does not put a person to death for fornicating and getting an STD, the STD puts a person to death.
Why would God remove the knowledge of what causes death and promotes LIFE from His contract? WHY?
If obeying the LAW i.e the Torah is the – WAY – to a happy prosperous life filled with joy and peace, which it is — why remove it?
If the Torah i.e God’s Law is not THAT WAY to LIFE – please show from the Word what IS God’s WAY ? From beginning to end the WORD states in effect “chose life”, “OBEY MY VOICE”.
Please do not remind us of the “NEW LAW of CHRIST” – “love God and love man” - those two are – not new – they were quoted from the TORAH. Christ did not just come up with those two great Precepts, Christ had given them to Moses on the mountain long long ago.
Since the purpose of the Covenant was to motivate the People to obey the Law would it not make more sense to leave the Law intact and – “CHANGE THE NATURE OF THE PEOPLE” ? Change the nature (heart) of the Saints of God to love the Holy Righteous Law?
Actually Jesus Christ did make a change to the Law: Christ in Matthew 5: 17 said He came to — FILL TO THE FULL — the Law and He did. The Law was only a physical law for a physical people; Jesus Christ increased, expanded the Law, He filled it –UP - to be a spiritual Law for a spiritual people.
Now if you even “think” of murdering a person, just in your mind, you have transgressed the Law. Is that not what Christ said??
Both Paul and Jeremiah confirmed: God is going to change the people and neither ever mentioned abolishing the law. The Law remains in the New contract i.e New Covenant and God is now putting the Torah i.e. HIS Law within His called and chosen peoples by converting their human nature: that process is called; “circumcision without hands”.
And just as cutting away of a foreskin is painful so is the circumcision without hands painful: Removing carnal human nature is very painful.
In verse 10 below God is telling us He is now putting HIS Torah into our minds and in our hearts i.e. – the Torah can now become our nature: — by the new terms (God’s promises) of the New Covenant God is agreeing to changes the very nature of His people.
God has agreed to change our carnal human nature by removing our evil lustful human nature and in its place creating HIS Holy Divine and Righteous Nature.
GOD’s Torah, spoken from the mouth of GOD to Moses, gives God’s people the details to live by that produce joy, peace, happiness, prosperity and all the things that make life worth living. And the carnal human nature of men “naturally” hates that LAW.
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because — they — continued not in my covenant, (added by men) and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
The stated reason by Paul in verse 9 for the need of a new contract; the People could not and would not obey the contract i.e. covenant. Their natures were and actually still are evil, their natures and our natures right now are wholly given over to vanity, jealousy, lust and greed.
10 “For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel —–“after” those days, —-saith the Lord; “
“I will put “my laws” into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: “
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord”: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
God’s divine nature is revealed to Israel by HIS LAW i.e, by HIS Torah and God is now beginning to create, first within the House of Israel, His Holy Divine Righteous Nature and that Divine Holy Righteous Nature of God is to become our “nature”. —– Did you even notice the House of Judah was not included?
Thus no one will need to teach another because all shall know and have in them that Holy Righteous Divine Nature of God the Father and will want to live that HOLY WAY: it will become our nature.
Where did Paul get the information he wrote above, Paul was quoting from Jeremiah 31: 31 – 34. Yes that old old Testament most love to ignore.
Jeremiah 31
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant — they - brake, (left out of Hebrew 8) although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
The translators removed the above from the KJV: the First Covenant was a marriage contract between Christ and the children of Israel.
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make — with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put – my law (Torah) – in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts (nature) and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And what do you think God was referring to with the phrase “Write it in their hearts”? Do you think He meant the Law is written with a ink pen on our organ that pumps blood?? That is beyond foolish – when Christ stated He knew what was in the ‘hearts’ of men He was specifically pointing out our evil sinful natures.
Our Father is changing – is – CONVERTING, our nature. Without that conversion none would be able to obey the Law of Righteousness – ever! Without first being Converted — none can enter the KINGDOM; so states our Savior.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, (we will all have the same nature) from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
And what is SIN? 1 John 3: 4, “Sin is the transgress of the LAW.” And What is iniquity – lawlessness i.e. without LAW!
Please note; the New Covenant is only with the House of Israel , the House of Judah (the Jews) is not included as yet. The New contract is made with the House of Israel – Judah is still bound by the first marriage contract. Christ divorced the House of Israel not the House of Judah.
AND please take careful note: the word used for “LAW” found in Jeremiah 31 is the Hebrew word “Towrah” i.e. Torah!
Strong’s Concordance #8451
torah: direction, instruction, law
Original Word: תּוֹרָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw’)
Short Definition: law
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from yarah
Definition direction, instruction, law
NASB Translation
custom (1), instruction (10), instructions (1), Law (1), law (188), laws (10), ruling (1), teaching (7), teachings (1).
That Torah, That Law, the one that so many “Christians” demand Christ “nail to His Stake” – because they hate it, their carnal nature hates it.
God is now putting into His called out ones minds and writing on their hearts/natures HIS Torah i.e. the 5 Books of the Law that Moses wrote on the mountain—Paul is telling Christians “God is putting in your hearts and minds (your nature) HIS TORAH”:
Not just the 10 Commandments which includes the Sabbath Day but the 7 Holy Feasts of God and the Statutes and Judgments—all — 5 Books of Moses.
God is creating within His People Israel HIS DIVINE HOLY nature and His Divine nature is revealed to us by the Words He spoke to Moses which Moses wrote in 5 Books: GOD’S TORAH which is kept in the Ark of the Covenant.
One very large problem verse 32 brings to light: if the God in the Old Testament was the Father, as many falsely believe, and the Father was married to Israel? Isn’t Jesus Christ to marry Israel at His return — YES !
–CAN the Son marry the divorced wife of the Father, legally, according to the Torah? Nope!
So how does so called “Christianity” solve that huge legal problem??? They simply remove physical Israel from the picture and bring in the “Church”.
Thus Christ marries this NEW Bride, the church. So called christianty simply cast aside the old divorced wife, the 12 tribes of Israel and creates a new bride, the church.
God’s Word states that is an impossibility and if God can cast aside His chosen people – why would He not cast you aside as well, if He changed His mind and HIS promise even once —can He not change it over and over?
So called Christians do not understand the Ruth and Boaz analogy nor Hosea and Gomer because they ignore the Old Testament i.e. THE WORD of GOD!
These two analogies explain how the divorce and remarriage are Torah legal.
Yes I am aware this was way too complicated, way too deep, way too many words —
salvation is really — simple— “just believe”! Just “let Christ into your heart’ —
If you accept that satanic lie –I have a great bridge to sell you – cheap. Jesus Christ wants the DOERS of HIS WORD, hearers and rejecters of His Law, those that work iniquity — nope!
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Comments are welcomed and to those that do so — understand — I care not at all of your opinion of me. It’s Water off a ducks back and I will not “repent from obeying my Master.
If you think what is written is not in accord with the WORD of God — please use logic and scripture and prove it.
Please do not tell us this writer does not understand the simplicity of the Gospel! The Word of GOD is NOT SIMPLE!
…seeker…I worship YHVH, because it completes me…not because I believe it does anything for HIM. I serve HIM. Everything I do, everything thing I am…. I OWE HIM. I was dead. I now live in the body of Christ….I am thankful. I fall, He picks me up…pats me on the butt and tells me me he loves me. Not one Iota of your complications or “obfuscations”, has any relevance to my relationship with Jesus Christ.
Jonesy
Jesus Christ came so YOU could come before His Father and worship the Father just like Christ did.
Do you not recall the so called “Lords prayer” “OUR FATHER in Heaven” is who Christ told us to come to with our problems.
The Vail that separated us from the Father’s Throne in the HOLY of HOLIES was ripped at Christ death so we could come before our Father and worship HIM and HIM ONLY.
Jesus Christ is my High Priest, He is my elder brother and I follow HIM AS HE FOLLOWS OUR FATHER. I do my Father’s Will just as Jesus Christ did and still does and told me to do.
I am my Father’s Son, Christ is my lawyer who explains to my Father why I keep sinning why I am so weak, and my Father forgives me because of my Brothers love of me.
Look at so called christianity — do you truly believe these are of God?? one huge mass of confusion each looking down on the other and sometimes killing each other???? Which has the most true doctrines and which has more incorrect ones? I do not care — I want the TRUTH of GOD and Christ said I will know the Truth.
Yes Jesus Christ died so I may live as an immortal spirit forever, no longer to be burdened by this temporary body of flesh.
BUT NO ONE will enter the kingdom of God, the Family of God that will not OBEY THE LAW which is God’s Holy Divine nature.
Jonesy if my son or daughter wanted to marry a murderer or a pervert or a thief etc. I would have done everything in my power to prevent the marriage.
I will never allow unrighteousness in my family and neither will our Father.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law —- (if you are led by the Father’s spirit you are not under the sentence of death, to have His Spirit you had to be first covered by the blood of Christ).
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
All of the above are contrary to the Torah to the 10 Commandments, the above ARE HUMAN NATURE.
I follow all of the commands of my Savior and I worship our FATHER as my savior instructed me to do.
We get it. You do not believe that Christ is God.
damineeeee
Jesus Christ is the WORD by whom and for whom ALL OF CREATION WAS MADE — CHRIST IS, WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE GOD.
God the Father is the architect and Christ is the builder.
You have been corrected, on this exact same point, several times now Meidan. Are you forgetful or deceitful?
If it’s the first then you really shouldn’t speak in absolutes and if it’s the second then slowly but surely “we” will find you out.
I’m told, if it’s any help, that digging is easier work if you keep your spade clean.
…seeker…I say ….YADA YADA YADA….Its always the same song with you.
…There’s no doubt in my mind that you believe all you say. That’s not your problem…To me, you’ve got a problem with attitude. In your mind YOU have the ‘intellectual’ copyright, on the Word of God….and you’re damn proud of it.
…Prov. 11:2, “When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is Wisdom.”
…You don’t have any humility, that I can discern, anyway. You are beyond instruction or correction….Prov. 12:1, “Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.”
…Seeker…You constantly judge other people, because they don’t need your Zionist justifications of faith, to be secure in the Truth of God’s mercy. That’s YOUR problem…not their’s.
…Go be the holy man you need to be…to ‘REIGN’ with Christ. As for myself, I am secure In my humble, “SERVICE”.
…I detest your ‘exclusivity’…
Jonesy
Have you read how Jesus Christ responded to His Disciples and others. Sharp and to the painful point!
Did you read what He said to the gentile women that kept bugging Him to heal her daughter — He called her a dog!
Why should I give one minute place to paganism or satanic doctrines??
the rapture is of Satan, the trinity, being born again right now while in the flesh and speaking in tongues — all Satanic.
I have stated many times in this forum that my beliefs place me in the the 1/10 of 1 % of so called christians and I will not ever change.
I follow all the laws and days that Christ followed, the Sabbath, the 7 Holy Days the clean and unclean meat statues all !
If you do not like what I write do not waste your time reading what I write. I will never apologize for the TRUTH of GOD.
…seeker…You are an arrogant, prideful pretender to the LOVE of Christ. My LORD is welcoming to all who love him. I guess Your god would need an application form filled out, by any prospective followers of Christ…and a daily log, to continue to JUSTIFY each one a place in the body of Christ….Who in hell do you think you are, anyway?
jonesy
I am just a man that hates Satan’s world and Satan’s counterfeit christian religions with a passion.
Jonesy you are just beginning, you are a babe, but time is very short and darkness is about to cover this entire earth and the blood of God’s Saints is about to run.
I have been waiting and watching for what is just ahead since 1968.
My only advice is to trust no man and go to our Father on your knees and if He is calling you HE will teach you HIS TRUTH.
What I know I am given by prayer and the study of HIS WORD.
Interesting, jonesy, that you dive right into the OT seeking to rebuke Truthseeker for his manner. Tellingly you do this rather than countering his well argued article.
Insubstantial ad-hominem coupled with projecting your own shortfalls onto others might keep you warm at night but it doesn’t impress me.
Truthseeker makes a convincing case from the Gospels, Law & Prophets and all you can do is whine about his confidence in the Truth.
…Truthseeker…You wrote this: onesy
first begotten among men, and begotten just as the father begets us BY HIS “SEED” i. e. His HOLY SPIRIT.
In my mind the Spirit can be understood as the spiritual DNA of the Father which is why we can call HIM FATHER. We are impregnated by HIS Spirit and become a spiritual fetus waiting our “term” before being born again.
Remember Christ is FIRST in ALL THINGS
first in being begotten
humility on my part and you came through…I will archive this whole article to show anybody who cares to see it…Your own inflated EGO, witnesses against you.
first in baptism
first in the laying on of Hands and receiving the Spirit
First to rise from death.
—————————————————–
…So you finally, openly admit you do NOT believe in the Deity of Christ….the WORD says Jesus is the “ONLY” begotten son of YHVH…NOT the ‘first’ of many….
I knew I could get it out of you…you DECEITFUL, SOB. Just a little bit of nodding to you and a touch of grovelling
…You will deny that’s what you said, and you’ll hem and haw and try divert attention away from your heresy…but, I have it in YOUR OWN WORDS.
You have a brand new “religious” classification, now…the way you are ‘honoring’ Jewish tradition and denying Christ and YHVH are ONE…you ‘prove’ yourself to be a christian Zionist…jew whore, YOU BE IN A HEAPA HURT…And you are too set in your ‘philosophy’ and way to proud of YOUR OWN OPINION, to even try to understand.
…I will dog you like pit bull, Your theosophy Is Flawed in the MOST egregious way you can ever find. Heretic.
…I am praying for you, You are too passionate in your faith to fail like this. That’s right… you are failing.
…Now I know who in hell you think you are…don’t I ,Moishe?
joney
For Christ to die He had to come to earth as flesh and blood, He had to die by lost of blood.
Before He came to earth He was on the right hand of God the Father as a member of the God family —HE was GOD!
I do not understand how but some how He stepped out of Immortality and took on the condition of flesh.
Jesus Christ was God but in the flesh and He states in many places all the works He did were done by His Father.
As the pioneer of our salvation He has to do all things Himself that we must do to gain eternal life.
Christ was God in the flesh BUT was mortal –so He could die for us.
He was the first of many brothers to be begotten by the Father’s Spirit, making HIM the first begotten and the first born from the dead.
Jonesy you keep saying you have studied and YOU understand since 1960 but there are too many keys you are missing.
I understand your confusion, I can not cure it only the Father can.
Jonesy Jesus Christ was God and stepped out of it, came to earth and then returned to the glory He had before.
If you can not understand that I am sorry but I do not know how to expressed it any better.
jonesy
9 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
…seeker…In my mind, you have gone from misguided, to purposely misleading…..If you could stand back and see for yourself how your own egotistical arrogance has taken you from ‘student’ to ‘in-doctrinaire’, you might be able to salvage your decades of serious “seeking”.
…YHVH himself walked the earth in Christ’s identity. If you can’t get that out of our holy scriptures, then all i can say is; you have not realized what the story is all about. Jesus himself said, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father”. I take that to heart…it IS the words of CHRIST.
…As long as you keep thinking you have ALL the truth of our Father’s actions and intentions…You will get no farther along, as, spiritually, you HAVE no more to learn. No room in there for “revelation”.
…Your ‘seeking’ is no longer for truth. Your seeking is for AFFIRMATION of your own ‘understanding’.
…Your intellectual ‘worship’ of your own self centered opinions, has become your nemesis.
jonesy
you have the freedom right now to follow all of the catholic invented doctrine you desire — I reject all of their satanic paganism.
…Typical response from seeker…can’t respond in an intelligent way so he has to go where he always does, zero humility, zero common sense. His way is death…none of you…including Mayhem, should lend him an ounce of credibility…either that or prostrate yourselves before him…That’s what, I think, he really wants…He’s in love with/leaning on, his own understanding….wants YOU to depend on him for your understanding, also….He’s the boss, you know.
You mistake confidence/impatience for arrogance, jonesy, and while you’re entitled to your opinion isn’t it rather arrogant to jump to conclusions? What? Have you asked Truthseeker if he supports the nation state of Israel?
Oh and John 3:16 is best translated as “uniquely begotten” (check it in the Greek) as in born of a Virgin.
And to reiterate what Truthseeker posted at the bottom of this thread…
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:29
…firstborn among many brethren.
..Mayhem…Nothing you can find can justify that Christ is not ONE with YHVH, with whom he shares identity of The Holy Spirit.
…Truthseeker doesn’t even realize he worships Judaic traditions, by not recognizing that Christ “IS” YHVH…and that’s the very reason that That Jesus was hung on the cross…and the JEWS did it…Murdered Jesus, because he IDENTIFIED with YHVH.
”’If you have seen me, you have seen the Father”‘…the ONLY begotten son Of YHVH,…believe it or don’t.
…Not believing in the ‘complete’ deity of YHVH/Christ, Is just another, more personal, and egregious layer of the spirit of Antichrist. I won’t stand for it.
…Now that the “BODY of CHRIST” has been gathered and the LAW has become their NATURE…The Jewish traditions and ALL the Jewish ritual, have gone the way of all flesh…There IS no part of the Torah EXCEPT the LAW/10 commandments, that any longer has any SPIRITUAL relevance…Honoring any Jewish traditions is foolish, “religious” anachronism.
Yes, jonesy, The Son and the Father are one, i know that, i just don’t understand it. How could the Father be greater?
Did Jesus perform any miracles before His baptism or was this the point He received all power and authority?
I do not, and hope it’s the last time i have to tell you this, do not deny the prophesied Emmanuel.
AS for the Law, do as thou wilt.
Shawalam Truthseeker
Your are correct and to those who don’t want to accept fact in scripture remember these;
Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions. Doing wrong leads to disgrace, and scandalous behavior brings contempt. Proverbs 18:2-3
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Proverbs 12:15
As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his foolishness. Proverbs 26:11
and… Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes. Proverbs 26:4-5
The people who argue against the Word (Yahawashi) dont understand why you ” Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression Isaiah 58:1″ and they surely dont ” work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. Phillipians 2:12″ The Word states that “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:14″ . Because if they did then they would see that Christianity is the widest road in existence of religions. They probably never even read YAHAWAH the Elohim stating ” “I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me. Amos 5:21″, and that the term Christian: itself is an insult to the disciples. “The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. Acts 11:26″ ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX7Q_wCo5uY) This is where the false name Jesus Christ comes from Iesus Serapis”. Also, the term ” lord” really means Ba’al and the term “god” is referring to Zues. Dont get me started on Hashatan white washing the Messiah and Cesare Borgias posing for the picture of white jesus christ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jcZ17HrnJU) .
There is a lot of info all the things Im saying in this is all tributes to ” And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause YAHAWAH shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Thessalonians 2:12″
And on that note
Shawalam
I’llalwaysbeaseeker
I’m afraid for you seeker..2 Corinthians 11:2
3 I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.…
crazy
Have I been led into sin??? NO — I abhor iniquity — I hate lawlessness — I despise the works of the flesh,
you on the other hand do not even understand what these are.
crazy what does your devotion to Christ entail?? simply believing with your mouth??
Christ demands you be a doer of HIS WORD. Words are nice but action is what is required.
Did Christ talk a good game or did He perform righteousness to perfection??
He perform righteousness to perfection??
FOR US
YOU CANNOT COPY HIM TO OBTAIN THAT SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS the FLESH FAILS That’s WHY HE SENT HIS SON …..If YOU could Obtain IT… then CHRIST DIED in VAIN
Adieu for now 3 am here ZZZzzz
crazy
No I can never obey perfectly as did Christ, while I am in the flesh, but does that mean I should not try to live in the same righteous way as my Savior shows me and told me to do?
Paul said we have a high priest that when we fall He will speak to the Father for us.
…seeker…I never read that Christ ever judged a man or woman. Even those that crucified Him. He did, although, recognize the ‘true Spirit’ in the poor malefactor that was crucified beside him. Jesus Christ always saw the good in people…even those, that meant Him evil. Salvation is meant to be inclusive, and is always going to be available to ANY person who loves Him with all his heart, mind and soul.
…no matter what YOU might think. No matter what zionist traditions and rituals, YOU think are necessary. No matter what your “desire” to REIGN, has put in your heart. You’ve fallen into an egotistical, intellectual, pit of “self righteousness”.
…All your words are righteous…its your ‘know it all’ attitude that is the crux of my denigration of your “preaching”.
…If you can’t find the humility, within yourself to lead without judging, then, for your own sake…stop preaching.
jonesy
i have most likely given you too much for one day but —
Christ stated there is not one good — no not one!! thus Christ could not have found any with good in them.
Salvation is NOT available to every person, read why Christ spoke in parables — because it was given for the disciples to understand but not to others. Christ came not for gentiles and none were in the 120.
Christ taught for 3 1/2 years and only had 120 disciples after His death — not a large number for 3 1/2 years work.
Find the scripture your self — Christ states NONE can come to HIM except the Father first calls them..
Salvation is not up to the individual, the time of your calling is in the hands of God.
I judge right from wrong, false doctrines from true — I condemn no one but I do not hold back from calling sin sin and evil evil.
…Seeker…You don’t ‘give’ anybody anything. You serve only yourself and your ‘infallible’ traditions.
jonesy
I would not call the Torah a “tradition”. THIS WORD of GOD is SO HOLY God had Moses place the 5 books in the ark of the Covenant which holds the two tables of Stone written on by the finger of Jesus Christ.
This world loves its own and they kill the rest.
Are we commanded not to judge, jonesy, or do you really mean – “stop pricking my conscience”?
…Mayhem…i don’t judge people, but i sure do judge, what comes out of their mouths. We all will be held accountable for all of our selfishness.
SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN
…I’m not stupid or uneducated, and i can find no useful information in seeker’s theosophy…The tenets he espouses are of Satanic origin. He calls himself ‘Christian”, but he has not accepted the deity of Jesus Christ…that is Satanic….Religious people who don’t accept Christ as the LIVING GOD
…Ask him, he’ll tell you…proudly. He no longer has the free will to resist Satan’s pull….do you?
jonesy
I freely give what I have been freely given, if you are looking for an emotional experience it will not come from me.
I seek the Truth which can be proven by logic. I do not allow emotions to cloud my thoughts.
What I place on BIN is doctrine provable by scripture backed up by logic. Others will supply all of the “feel good’ emotional stuff. Of course it will not be the truth.
The LOVE of God is not to be confused with uncontrolled or high emotions which is one of the draws of speaking in tongues.
What makes you think, jonesy, that Truthseeker denies the deity of Jesus? Was it where he said…
“CHRIST IS, WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE GOD.”
… or is it something you’ve made up to cover the fact that you won’t, or can’t, counter his argument?
Jonesy
All I espouse comes only from the WORD, if I am not sure of something I will say this is my opinion or my guess. I can and do back up all I say with scriptures. It is a sin to lie!
Is and was Jesus Christ God ? Absolutely, but I totally reject the doctrine of a trinity – that is satanic.
Jonesy I have papers on just about all I have found to be TRUTH. I search the Word as deeply as possible and write a paper for my own purposes to prove to my self whether or not something is the truth.
I have a paper on the trinity, on born again on speaking in tongues and about 50 others some are 55 pages in length.
How in the world did you come to the conclusion I would proudly admit I no longer have the “free will” to resist Satan?
I am not even sure a sound person can lose their “free will”. How is that even possible?
Jonesy I stated earlier this is Satan’s world of which he is the god! And I hate it, all governments are his, all religions and churches are his. God limits what he can do but soon God will set him loose to attempt to destroy every man women and child off this earth,
Jonesy it is not hard to resist what you HATE, Do I still have human nature with all of it’s lust?? You bet; I am 76 and when a young women walks by proclaiming to all the world that SHE is the best you know what – I fight to turn my head. I admit I am tempted by a good looking women but I do not turn and sin.
Do I get angry and lose my temper you bet. I am not yet perfect and will not be perfect until I am resurrected as an immortal Spirit with the same body and the same Holy Divine Perfect nature as my elder Brother.
You and others can not endure my way of expressing my beliefs as I offer them with authority and with confidence and not with an apology or with weakness.
Jesus Christ gave to His “Body” His “authority’ i.e. His name to use and I do.
Seeker… Ok…I see…. when you’re backed into a corner, you deny what you’ve said before? That’s par for the course. Accepting the Deity of Christ is accepting the ’3 in one’ Godhead—the ‘trinity’. Father, Son and their common, Holy Spirit.
… truthseeker…I agree with most everything you just wrote, and appreciate the honesty…I will do likewise. Christ elevated the Old testament faith into the New Covenant…The law was internalized. I know you can’t see it.
…You are missing out on the greatest treasure in the universe. The GLORY of Jesus Christ.
…Jesus Christ came to show us that we are on our own…no priests…no rituals…no breast beating atonement, necessary for absolution…we are to accept, without question, HIS sacrifice, as authoritative…without the traditions and rituals, that helped the immature souls of the old testament, stay out of trouble…You, seeker, as a Christian are supposed to be above needing that kind of “moral” Instruction. If you want to take part in archaic, “religious” ritual…go for it, but its not required in this covenant.
…All of this, to insure that Eth ha Adahm’s bloodline would remain contiguous, through the eons to the birth of Christ.
…It worked, and we’ve had a different spiritual task to fulfill since the Advent. And it has nothing to do with blood sacrifice or mandatory ritual, or “priestly duties”. All gone and never needed again. Circumcision, is now ‘of the heart’. that tells me that ALL of the O.T. rituals are defunct.
…I doubt if you can accept this, but it is the TRUTH. If you can’t understand it, The actual red letter words of Jesus should help…if your mind is ready for revelation. The time is now.
crazy as an example for us to follow He performed righteousness to perfection.
We are told to become “perfect” just as Christ is Perfect.
Christ is the example of righteousness that I follow, you who knows?
KJV + Strong’s
crazy
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in [my] folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.
virgins do not fornicate with false gods and false religions.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
“simplicity”
Strong’s Concordance
haplotés: singleness, hence simplicity
Original Word: ἁπλότης, τητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: haplotés
Phonetic Spelling: (hap-lot’-ace)
Short Definition: simplicity, sincerity, purity
Definition: simplicity, sincerity, purity, graciousness.
The Purity of the Truth found in Christ???
the sincerity of the TRUTH found in Christ
it does not mean led from your simple mindedness – i.e moron like
jonesy and crazy
read the paper and THEN explain where I took scriptures out of context or I twisted the intent or I just outright lied.
You believe!!! that is very nice — Satan and his fallen angels also believe and they tremble — but — they also refuse to OBEY which is why they will be cast into great darkness forever soon.
Hello Truthseeker, I would like to share the Key of Knowledge with you. Please contact me mike.molyneaux(at)xtra.co.nz
Jesus ended judaism, (excluding the Ten Commandments) with its feasts, sabbaths, practices, etc:
Colossians 2:16-17 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in respect of a festival day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbaths, Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.”
Hebrews 8:13 “Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old, is near its end.”
Mark 15:38 “And the veil of the temple was rent in two, from the top to the bottom.” <— its official end.
Jesus perfected judaism, transforming it into Catholicism:
Matthew 5: 17 “Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”
John 19:28 “Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst.”
"To fulfill: By accomplishing all the figures and prophecies; and perfecting all that was imperfect." Douay Rheims Bible.
Now, if judaism were good enough to save your soul why would Jesus need to perfect it? Need to sacrifice Himself? And if it is not perfect, (it isnt) why do you want to follow it so badly? Jesus wants us to strive for perfection:
Matthew 5:48 "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
Israel of the New Covenant is the Catholic Church, jews have no significance any more:
Galatians 3: 26-29 "For you are all the children of God by faith, in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you be Christ' s, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
You state.. "salvation is really — simple— “just believe”! Just “let Christ into your heart’"
Sorry, there is a lot more required for salvation. No one is assured of it until one does in Sanctifying Grace. It is a life long struggle:
Matthew 7: 21 “ Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
John 3:5 “Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
Luke 9: 23 "And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."
Matthew 26:41 "Watch ye, and pray that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."
James 2:19-20 “Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”
2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time.”
Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation."
James 5:16 “Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.”
Matthew 6:14-15 “For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also you also your offences. But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.”
John 20:22-23 “When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”
John 6:54-57 "THEN JESUS SAID TO THEM: AMEN, AMEN I SAY UNTO YOU: EXCEPT YOU EAT THE FLESH OF THE SON OF MAN, AND DRINK HIS BLOOD, YOU SHALL NOT HAVE LIFE IN YOU. HE THAT EATETH MY FLESH, AND DRINKETH MY BLOOD, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE: AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP IN THE LAST DAY. FOR MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED: AND MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED. HE THAT EATETH MY FLESH, AND DRINKETH MY BLOOD, ABIDETH IN ME, AND I IN HIM.”
trent you did not bother to read the paper which proves you have no clue what you are talking about so have a very nice day.
Your “paper” is pretty confusing. And, sorry to say, boring. Couldn’t hold my attention very well. Just know that judaism is over and that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Good day to you too .
trent
I skimmed my paper and I can see how it would be confusing to a mind steeped in paganism!
Rome is the world headquarters of paganism and will soon be the religious capital of the entire world. All will bow to Rome.
…Trent…catholicism has zero credibility….
Paul? Do you mean Saul of Tarsus the Turkish trader with a Roman citizenship because he was a high ranking member of the Pharisees political party of money lenders and traders?
If so he was preaching the party political manifesto of the Pharisees party. The Pharisees began life somewhere during the Maccabean revolt c160 BCE, and invented Judaism sometime after 70 CE, after Rome wiped Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and Judea off the face of Earth in 70 CE for rebelling against the Roman empire. Which ended in Jerusalem Judea, being raised to the ground exactly as described without leaving one stone standing upon another in 70 CE.
The book in the bible were not written by him in any case but describe a much later period in time, the 6th century CE.
One thing that has impacted me incredibly since coming to BIN is just how much confusion there is between of us who believe in Jesus Christ. Somehow, some way, God is going to fix that if we believe Ephesians 4. All I Ifsay is when He does it will be strong evidence He is God because it sure looks like it’s going to take a miracle
I can see two sides here, and agree with parts of both. My own understanding is that after the cross we have the indwelling Spirit which remedies the flaw that made the OT saints unable to keep the Law and be redeemed by it. Not to mention the fact we were doomed from birth because we got handed a legacy of death at the fall.
Take the Sabbath for example. If we strip away all the traditions of men, keeping the Sabbath is basically fulfilling two requirements:
______________
Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the LORD honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
_______________
As I understand it, we are NOT relieved of responsibility for keeping the Sabbath under the New Covenant, but the “manner” of keeping it does change.
After the cross I have the indwelling Spirit and moment by moment obedience (walking in the Spirit) means I will never violate the Sabbath or any other commandment. By nature my walk will be lawful and beyond reproach. The New Testament tells me I should “speak as if speaking the oracles of God” and if I do that my speech will be Spirit led, not flesh led. If I only “do what I see my Father doing” then i have by definition turned my foot from doing my own works. If I “seek first the Kingdom and His righteousness..” I have eschewed being motivated by seeking my own pleasure. In other words, I don’t set the Law aside, I fulfill it EVERY day of the week, so when the actual 7th day Sabbath rolls around, I don’t need a special focus on it because my LIFE has become a fulfillment of the Sabbath.
OT saints had to focus on what they should NOT do in order to obey God’s law and by the Spirit I can focus on simply following the Spirit. The power to walk fully in love comes in and takes up residence in my spirit at the new birth.
I’m pretty sure this is the revelation Paul was trying to get across in Hebrews when he spoke of “entering His rest”.
If I “cease from my own works” (rest) as He rested from His on the 7th day (as an example to me) then He is free to move through me to accomplish HIS works.
I have no clue if that made any sense
hope it did.
Well put, Truthseeker, and i can’t help but notice your usual detractors are, once again, trying to make this all about you rather than your article. That they won’t, or can’t, put up their version of truth does tend to indicate their hatred of the Law. Kind of like how the Atheists spend inordinate amounts of time railing against an entity they don’t believe exists.
Thanks Mayhem,
I am looking for the coming of the kingdom ASAP, and the Law going forth from Jerusalem. Satan’s world is getting very difficult to endure.
And I can see the hatred of God’s law and His WAY growing daily.
I still can not understand how the Sabbath, the Holy Days and even the Torah is look upon as Jewish traditions?
Especially when it’s considered that the Torah was given in the beginning and the Patriarch of Israel didn’t come till 10 generations after the flood. Ignoring that point i guess it’s easier to write the commanded observances off as the vain traditions of the Edomites thereby tarnishing the Law in context with the Talmud rather than upholding Torah in the light of scripture.
…mayhem…if you want to follow the torah…do it if it makes you feel good…but its not been required of Christians…ever.
jonesy
I agree so called christians have never observed the Torah ever!!
But here Jesus Christ is clearly teaching HIS Disciples to observe the Torah ;
Chapter 23
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and – to — his — disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] -observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Jonesy what do the scribes (attorneys) and the Pharisees use to rule from Moses seat??? The Torah! and Christ plainly stated “observe and DO!
Jonesy — very very few use the entire WORD of GOD to determine doctrine, they pick and choose very carefully selecting only those that confirm what they want to believe.
If you will just read the book of Matthew line by line you will be shocked by what Christ taught — He taught the TORAH. Many of the quotes by Christ and the apostles are from the Torah.
You say that Christians have never been required to follow the Torah. Jesus says…
“Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.” John 14:12
… now then did Jesus not keep to the whole of the Law? Were His works not perfectly in accord with and in fact based entirely upon the Torah? If you love Him then do as He did.
The law remained in effect in Jesus’ lifetime. The law of the Parsees. This was the law Jesus as master abolished. The bible then, without room for your disruptiveness makes itclear: You are to obey your masters.. Roman law is ALSO still in effect and passing away like the law of the parsees did and you will sit down and eat of it. You are just arguing amongst yourselves.
Obviously those who reject Christ as king might feel more comfortable being Christards under a legal system that rejected him explicitely.
Amen Bro Mayhem.
I may have misunderstood your thrust and if so please forgive me. But here are some of Paul’s teachings about the “law” :
_____________
Romans 2
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
___________
I’m not sure if you meant this, but if your keeping of the Law includes believing we cannot be saved unless circumcised, how are we supposed to understand this passage? Or this one?:
___________
Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[fn] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased. 12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”[fn] 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
_________
It seems Paul felt strongly enough about the topic that in verse 12 he wishes these “disturbers” of the Galatians would just go ahead and emasculate themselves. What made Paul so passionate about the topic?
Does the answer not leap from your own comment, Jostler? The circumcision is no longer physical but “of the heart, in Spirit”. In the same way as the Law was elevated from the Physical to the Spiritual.
And was Paul being passionate or was he expressing similar frustration to what Jesus endured (John 3:10-12) when explaining being born again?
I was under the impression Truthseeker was saying we had to go back, keep all the dietary laws, be circumcised, etc in order to please God.
Which is why I opened my post the way I did, just in case I’d misunderstood.
Jesus filled up all those types and shadows is my understanding. It appears to me that Paul was very passionate about keeping his fellow believers from being drawn back into the bondage of trying (and failing) to keep all the legal requirements of the Old Testament when Jesus had replaced all that with the law of love.
Life is in the Spirit, not legalism.
…Jostler… Truthseeker does not believe in the ‘deity’ of Christ…So he can’t put his faith into the liberation that the New Testament endowed us with. To him its as if Christ were just another angel, and not the only begotten Son.
Ok, I’m confused. I reread the comments above where he clearly proclaims that Jesus is, was and always will be God, but then later declares the trinity a satanic doctrine and I’m not sure how to reconcile those two statements.
Truthseeker can you clarify that?
jostler you and jonesy are very confused,
the false trinity doctrine was invented by Rome in the 4th century, until then it was never taught. never taught by Christ or the apostles. and Rome admits they invented and it can not be found in scripture..
Elohiym, a plural term, is the Father and the Word which became Jesus Christ, there are two in the Family of GOD. The HOLY Spirit is the Father’s Spirit– the Father IS a Spirit.
I have stated over and over JESUS CHRIST is, was and will always be GOD, there are TWO and they are of that ONE SPIRIT.
Fellows we are not liberated by the New Covenant we are forgiven of our sins – we are justified ONLY BY THE BLOOD of JESUS CHRIST.
The New covenant is we can be justified by the blood of Christ, we can be given eternal life if we endure until the end and God the Father is going to convert our natures over to HIS Divine Nature.
and no no one needs to be physically circumcised only spiritual.
Your confusion comes from lack of knowledge of the Torah, the Prophets. If one does not understand the Old Testament one will never understand the books of the New Testament.
TROOTHY
You are actually saying that when you become infused with the holy spirit you become God like Jesus. The holy spirit is a person of god so you are arguing that you, (and the father too) are all the same person.
In other words you do not believe in a person called Jesus Christ
Truthseeker,
Isaiah 48:16-17 “Come ye near unto me, and hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning: from the time before it was done, I was there, and now THE LORD GOD hath sent me, and HIS SPIRIT. Thus saith THE LORD THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel: I am the Lord thy God that teach thee profitable things, that govern thee in the way that thou walkest”
The Lord God = God the Father, His Spirit = God the Holy Ghost, the Lord thy Redeemer = God the Son (Jesus.)
Matthew 28:19 “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”
jostler
Here is my understanding of the so called doctrine of Grace.
It is because of the “grace” or the “kindness” of God that HE send His Son to die for us. we are not “saved” by the grace or kindness of God but by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Yes God’s kindness is what allowed Christ to come to earth and die but it is by Christ death and by His blood we are forgiven.
Because God so loves us He sent His Son to die so we can be reconciled back to HIM. Christ removed the condemnation of the Law i.e. the sentence of death from us.
While every one of us was a full on sinner, none had repented, God by the kindness that is within His Divine nature sent Christ to die FOR SINNERS.
Christ did not die for “good folks” He died for fornicators, liars, murderers, idolators, Christ died for those that richly deserved death.
Christ came not for the righteous but for the sinners of the world.
That is the kindness, the unbelievable grace of God — that He allowed His only Son to be brutally murdered for SCUM !
There is not the slightest possibility I would die some of those I have know in my life BUT JESUS CHRIST DID.
It seems you have not read this article or the comments thoroughly, Jostler, because Jesus did not replace anything only added the spiritual to the physical by way of a better (not different) covenant promise.
You see; certain folk sought to argue with Jesus that their salvation was assured because they could not be faulted (by the synagogue) except God knows what was in their hearts aside from their behaviour.
Salvation has always been by grace through faith, the Pharisees taught that faith was proven through works, they were wrong and got corrected on that, yet faith is nothing without works (Eph 2:8-10).
God is pleased when the commandments are kept (1 John 3:22) presumably because they keep the observant focused on the life to come and provide for a long, healthy and satisfying existence during this life.
You speak as if you’re correcting some misunderstanding I have but I’ll be darned if I know what it is.
Salvation by grace, through faith – check
Always been by grace, through faith – check
And yes, “replaced” was an unfortunate choice of words. Abolished is more accurate:
__________________
Ephesians 2
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
______________
Which is further clarified in:
______________
Colossians 2
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not[fn] seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore,[fn] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
______________
Where are we in disagreement?
You did misunderstand…
“I was under the impression Truthseeker was saying we had to go back, keep all the dietary laws, be circumcised, etc in order to please God.”
… so i spelled out as clearly as i could that the path to salvation has never changed and it was never about circumcision or dietary Laws.
In context Ephesians 2 & Colossians 2 have nothing to do with Torah and everything to do with the commandments and doctrine of men. In other words the Talmud. It is the wall of separation that was abolished. It is the principalities and powers that were disarmed so that no man may judge another by their observances.
Not one jot or tittle of Torah was ever abolished. In fact the word “Torah” appears nowhere in either of those passages, Jostler, which leads me to think you only study the Bible in English.
Truthseeker you’ve clarified the circumcision bit and the fact it isn’t a requirement for salvation. When you talk so forcefully about observing the law, can you explain exactly what part you mean? How does that look in daily life?
I’ve spent a good deal of time reading the Old Testament (and still do) since I believe all of it, Old and New is the Word.
Can you identify any particular part of the Old Testament you feel I’m confused about? I certainly don’t know everything about any of it so I’m willing to learn if you wish enlighten me.
The doctrine of the trinity is certainly something of a mystery, but I hesitate to
call it satanic for sure. The Scriptures explicitly refer to all three as both separate and as a unity so understanding Him as One God manifesting in three persons seems about the best we can do at comprehending the incomprehensible. Satanic is a pretty heavy label to put on it. What deception does that open me up to if I perceive Him as One manifesting in three persons? How is God misrepresented or harmed by it? Or me for that matter?
Truthseeker
I just noticed that CTrent just posted a Scriptural example of the three-in-one idea from the Old Testament, gave a logical explanation of his understanding of it and then went on to give a New Testament verse that distinctly portrays Him in three different persons.
Its about 4 posts above this one. Can you address that one? I agree with his presentation so you’d be answering two of us with one response. Efficiency
These Wolves are SDA variations they are devoid of ANY TRUTH as “God the Holy Spirit of Truth ” is NOT IN THEM…they are Orphans
Jostler
Here is the first Contract/covenant. Study these 13 verses and see if you can find circumcision, sacrificing animals, righteousness coming by keeping the Law, eternal life, forgiveness of sin or that by the indwelling of the Father’s Spirit the carnal natures of the children of Israel would be changed.
The sacrificial law was added later because the Children would not and could not stop sinning; This sacrificial law was the school master leading us to the sacrifice of Christ as our Passover.
This law was a continual reminder that transgressions of the HOLY LAW brings the automatic sentence of death. All have sinned and are under sentence of death and the only way that sentence can be paid is by our death or by the death of Christ in our stead.
This is contract is a physical contract for a physical people with a physical law and physical promises.
The NEW and better Covenant is a spiritual contract for a spiritual people with a spiritual law and spiritual promises.
The change from the old to the new is only with the promises of GOD nothing else was changed.
Now we are promised our sins can be forgiven, if we endure until the end we will be given as a free gift eternal life and to give us the power to endure and to obey the Law and the statutes God the Father will place within us HIS Spirit.
God’s spirit is the down payment on the gift of eternal life; it is God placing in each He calls “HIS LIFE” “HIS POWER”, a small measure of HIS eternal life.
The Holy Spirit is not a third it is the spirit “essence” of the Father. We are our Father’s son because that ONE Spirit of the Father can be put in us. It is the same ONE spirit that raised Christ from death to immortal life.
Jostler, all translations are of men, they translate according to their own beliefs. The KJV is just that, a version of what some men believe.
The Roman catholics have slipped in many scriptures and words that were never included to deceive. The word easter is actual the word Passover, the catholics and the English version of Catholicism added that word To give credence to their doctrine and they also added a few scriptures in an attempt to settle the false doctrine of a trinity.
The Bible was not written to be understood by the natural mind of man, God must open your mind first and then slowly lead you into HIS Truth. I have been at this for almost 50 years and it took 45 for me to begin to learn.
Until the Feast of Pentecost, the minds of the 12 Apostles were not open. They had no ideal what they were to do until God the Father laid HIS hands, symbolically, upon the 120 and poured into them HIS SPIRIT.
Study Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy. In Leviticus the first 7 chapters is the added sacrificial law.
The Covenant
Leviticus 26: 1 – 39
Verses 1 through 3 are the contract duties of the Children of Israel
1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God.
2 Ye shall keep my Sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I [am] the LORD.
3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and — do them;
Verses 4 through 13 are the contract promises of God
4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make [you] afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
13 I [am] the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
jostler
trent is a true catholic, he is set in stone.
16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, “and his Spirit’, hath sent me.
The spirit of God sent him, where does this imply a third person? If you will check with Strong’s the term “and his spirit” is just the word #7303 wind, spirit or breath.
If there was a third person then why does Paul just ignore “IT”.
In all his letters his greetings exclude any mention of the Holy Spirit the word “ghost” is another abortion by Rome, that word is Spirit not ghost.
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Paul never includes the “ghost’ in his greetings.
and Christ clearly states “I and the Father are ONE” Christ excluded the catholic ghost as well.
I hope this clears this up somewhat.
truthhacker
You.. “I have been at this for almost 50 years and it took 45 for me to begin to learn.”
You can say that again
Moses wandered around the Mountain 40 plus yrs also and never entered the promised land, and with his pride came his death.
Repent and join the TRUE ekklesia of God, 50 yrs is TOO long to not have obtained the Lord Rest Heb 10:4
The Jews for Jesus are getting in before you, (wasting 50 yrs)
The True Church was founded @ Pentecost NOT by the LAW but by the “Holy Spirit OF GOD”, God’s Spirit, “My Spirit” He say’s, therefore “God the Holy Spirit”, those NEW CONVERTS DID NOT JOIN with the Temple Leaders in Israel who followed the LAW…
THEY STARTED a NEW MOVEMENT as they HAD the TRUTH IN THEM CHRISTIANS… “God the Holy Spirit” and HE would lead them/us in ALL TRUTHS …NOT THE LAWYERS OF OLD ISRAEL….NO!
BUT the “Glorious New Covenant”, A NEW Beginning He made ALL thing New at the Cross….come join come out of the Wilderness and waste no more of your last days…join the “Body of Christ” Spiritual Israel the BRIDE.
crazy
for the 3 time which is the Real church??
blindseeker
You’ve not asked 3 times ? , I just sent you the TRUTH (destinedtobe revealed thread) but your TOTALLY UNABE TO RECEIVE IT ….
The True Church is the BRIDE which will be taken from the Churches Age , Apostles (@ Pentecost) to the Philadelphia Church “at HIS APPEARING” … those whom have the “Seal of adoption” those whom “God’s Holy Spirit” “indwells” and have accepted Christ through “FAITH ALONE” “the Glorious New Covenant ” and have made the good confession to another.
That is NOT YOU nor your wolf pack..
The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU….His Kingdom is NOT of this World.
OK crazy if its the replacement theology boys count me out.
Speaking in tongues is satanic but crazy I know it gives you great “feeling” in side. but that is all it gives you it is giving you death.
You …OK crazy if its the replacement theology boys count me out.
You’ve counted yourself out of many things especially the CHURCH
Now you say what I posted was “replacement theology ?”
You don’t know WHAT “replacement theology” is then !!
Truthseeker,
Dictionary(dot)com:
AND 1. (used to connect grammatically coordinate words, phrases, or clauses) along or together with; as well as; in addition to; besides; also; moreover:
The word AND indicates more than one. The Lord God AND His Spirit. Two plus the Redeemer, who is talking in the quote, makes three. Three Persons, One God.
trent
there is no “and’ the Hebrew word #7307 has been translated as “and his Spirit”, the Hebrew word is defined below as breath, wind, spirit. This is another example of the translators putting their own beliefs into scripture.
◄ 7307. ruach ►
Strong’s Concordance
ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo’-akh)
Short Definition: spirit
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
breath, wind, spirit
NASB Translation
…Jostler…You nailed it!!
…’I was under the impression Truthseeker was saying we had to go back, keep all the dietary laws, be circumcised, etc in order to please God.’
… That’s what I’ve always taken from seeker’s words….
…Mayhem… is that what you get out of seeker’s words? Or do you think its something else?
And you have been told “always” that that is not what Truthseeker is saying therefore no that is not what i get from his words.
The Law remains in effect (Rom 3:31) yet Abraham was accounted righteous by grace through faith (Gal 3:6) and salvation is of the LORD (Jonah 2:9).
Just for clarity, are you saying we have to be circumcised to be saved?
I do not say, my opinion counts for nought, scripture says.
We are regarded as circumcised if we keep the Law. Not physically circumcised but of the heart (Romans 2:25-29).
mayhem
It just came to me I am trying to teach calculus to first graders, shame on me.
I knew the confusion was bad but it is much more then just confusion, all that is known is not only false but is also the very basics. We are at 2 + 2 = 3
Truthseeker I was (and still am) happy to accept your guidelines of using Scripture and logic to provide boundaries for my comments. I have posted rafts of passages and explained my understanding of them as logically as i know how.
If you expect me to adhere to the guidelines you required then it seems fair to expect you to avoid the ad hominem and snide remarks as well.
At no point have I been insulting nor will I be. If you see flaws in my posts then please address them with Scripture and logic as you demanded of me.
deathseeker another moronic like statement
Jostler following this mans interpretations and instructions only leads to the PIT his Father is Satan, His Spock like skills of logic are flawed.
Just a heads up your talking to NONE CHRISTIANS from a Biblical standpoint they are stand alone Wolves masquerading as Sheep, they follow NO CHURCH CREED nor can they tell you the NAME of one they follow ?, they denounce ALL the CHURCHES as Satanic ….
If your confused now wait till you hear what the dogs vomit up as wisdom …Whooha !!!
In fairness, Jostler, the analogy of teaching calculus to 1st graders typically applies to those who can put forward two chapters of scripture that have nothing to do with the topic of conversation.
My eyes rolled back when you came out with Eph 2 & Col 2 and i thought to myself – “Oh bleep another noob who thinks scripture was written in English”.
That’s just wrong, Crazy times, and you know it. Churches teach such drivel as a pre-trib rapture and the Trinity. The body of Christ, however, teaches neither.
mayhem
crazy, if I remember correctly is a tongues speaker, thus if you do not speak in tongues you can not have the Spirit and can not BE a real christian.
Those that allow Satan to speak through them are set in cement, that emotional experience is all they seek.
…Mayhem/truthseeker…please, would you guys try to define for me what your definition of the controversial “trinity” is. I do believe that we’re not seeing eye to eye, on this subject. As simply as possible if you would…thanks in advance.
I don’t know that i have a definitive argument on the Godhead, jonesy, but of the Trinity i can say this.
Trinitarianism is entirely Satanic with origins in the speculative philosophy of Plato which was subsequently supported and furthered by Philo and Origen. Polytheists all of them but critically important to Rome so their arguments were assimilated into christian doctrine.
Johanneum Comma aside there are very few verses that describe the Holy Spirit as a person but keep in mind there are also verses that describe wisdom as such so there’s not much to be made of the scant examples on that basis.
Perhaps the only thing we can agree on is that there is one God and none besides. Is the Trinity a salvation issue? Only if we are commanded to know Jesus and to have no other gods. Is it dangerous? You can bet your life on it.
The Catholic Encyclopedia admits the Trinity is not biblical,
Catholic authority says that the Trinity “is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia.
The Catholic Encyclopedia comments: “In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word τρίας [tri′as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180.”
The New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: “The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament].”
Update : The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits:
“The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention”
The formulation of ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.” End of Quote;
…mayhem..so….Are Ya’ll trying to be confusing? I was beginning to give you two credit for some clear thinking, and now you are contradicting yourselves.
…You may be clear in your own minds about this subject, but i can guarantee its not getting across…are you saying one must perform the “old ways of worship”, or has there been an enlightenment, and now it is a spiritual offering? Just what is the deal, speaking out of both sides of the mouth?
…not that it makes much difference to me…I am realized, and live in the Holy Spirit, but I am concerned about those who may truly need guidance, listening to your viewpoints. wassup?
jonesy
The doctrine of Jesus Christ is not just a simple “believe and you are saved” and the Bible was not written to be understood by men, it is deep and it scattered here a little and there a little. Doctrines are assembled from the entire WORD.
AND because of our language, it is very difficult for one person to transmit to another exact understanding.- that is why there are so many attorneys.
I have been on BIN I think for about 5 years and when I began I made no sense. I would write what I thought was clear and it was not at all.
A statement that is clear to all is impossible. Look at how even the words of Christ are understood 4000 different ways.
This is Satan’s world of which he is god and he has deceived this entire world, I have been calling christianity the 4000 flavors of confusion for a few years.
You must have a starting place to begin to come to the knowledge of God’s Truth.
I recommend you begin in Hebrews 6 and begin to study the fundamental and foundational doctrines of Jesus Christ.
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ,
let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of
repentance from dead works,
and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms,
and of laying on of hands,
and of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment.
Begin at the beginning and assemble all scriptures that pertain to each doctrine. After a while you will begin to see how they all fit together perfectly.
Repentance for dead works is the starting point for salvation, what are works that lead to death?? Paul lists them.
Gaining a sound knowledge of God’s Truth is a life long event, I learn more every day.
It is impossible for a man to know it all in his life time BUT God will give you all you need to endure until “your” end or the end of the age which ever comes first
I will ask our Father to bless you with understanding.
…seeker…despite your opinion of my experience, I am in this
faith, now, since The 1960′s…I have studied fervently and even tried ‘Christian college’. Been through cults and tantric yoga, married a christian girl whose whole focus was fleshly, and dealt with BERG’s ‘children of god’. Nothing is new. The same problems expressed in scripture are the same ones we have had all along…somebody always feels his methods of worship are legitimate, while all others are not.
…In fact, I don’t care what any mature, normally intelligent person believes to be true..Its his business…evangelism doesn’t work, never did, in my experience. Just don’t mess with the little ones…you’ll feel my wrath.
…I went on a search for the ”facts”. I found That the REAL truth has little to do with religion. In fact the uber-religious, have less understanding than small children, have naturally. Jesus Christ was crucified by religious people and politicians…whom I see now are peas in a pod.
…I reject any and all religion. To me it is false and potentially soul-killing.
…I group ALL ritual and ‘religious’ tradition, with catholicism’s. It may do something for the practitioner, but is irrelevant as far as the real truth of the Advent of Christ, and what that has meant for the world. All religious ritual has its roots in some type of fear. “ya gotta do this or face trouble”.
…Christ’s Advent abolishes fear…all fear, from ‘believers’ hearts and minds. We can go forward…fearlessly. There are no limitations.
Jonesy
you and I are on the same page — I want nothing to do with religion – so called christianity.
I never opened the Bible nor belonged to a “church”, what i knew of religion i got from the movies and later TV, so basically I had no knowledge which gave me a head start.
It has taken God many decades to begin to “convert” me, I was and still am a hard headed guy. But as the time is now very short it seems I am on a crash course, the deeper understanding is flooding in and I love it.
I am retired and want no part with the business world or the world for that matter.
I have said this before on BIN, I comment and post papers because it forces me to explain in a clear understandable manner, not because I am trying to convert others. It helps me to fine tune my understand. Writing and commenting forces me to deeply understand the doctrine or topics I address,
…seeker…So…you are absorbing this latter rain as well. pure love.
…There is something I need to ask. There’s a word that’s used around here, that i don’t think I know a definite meaning of…even though I’ve used the word….Zionist…in its present connotation.
How would you define it?
jonesy
I never use the word and I have no clue what it really means according to those who do use it, I would guess it would depend on the person using the word, most seem to use it as connoting an evil people.
What is coming is: up is down good is evil and evil is pure righteousness. Word are going to change big time.
Jonesy
If I may — I will expound on another topic you brought up earlier.
“…seeker…despite your opinion of my experience, I am in this
faith, now, since The 1960′s”
A follower of Jesus Christ is “living that WAY” — because of FAITH i.e trust.
Because of an understanding we have been GIVEN concerning THAT NARROW “WAY” we follow that WAY of life because we trust, have faith, in the Divine Holy and Righteous Nature of GOD!
Christ came to show us THAT WAY! By faith/trust we live THAT WAY. And it is a very difficult way as it is totally against the way of this world.
2 peter 2
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom — THE WAY of truth — shall be evil spoken of.
21For it had been better for them not to have known –THE WAY — of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Acts 18
26And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him –THE WAY OF GOD – more perfectly.
I have been misunderstood and maligned for being so “specific” down to the fine details. I did not create the fine details I just point them out.
I follow – in faith/trust – that WAY Christ lived as our example to follow.
He is the pioneer of THAT WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS we must follow in faith.
No i’m not trying to be confusing, jonesy, excepting that the topic of conversation, itself, is very confusing. As is the Trinity.
Please be specific as to what old ways of worship you are referring to.
The Lord is my Shepherd, another voice they will not follow……..how many christians are following the voice of Paul?
That would be a good point if Paul taught some other gospel but he didn’t so your point is moot.
room/w/view
Paul was the only apostle of the 13 that had a formal education and he was educated by the very best of that day. Paul knew the WORD of GOD backwards and forwards.
the reason Paul is so hated is he is very deep, he understood the Torah down to the minute details and also the translators had a field day twisting his words.
It can not be proven as yet but as the apostles spoke Hebrew the new testament was probably written in Hebrew then translated to Greek and then to English — must was lost moving through those 3 languages.
With out Paul there would not be much of a New testament. Paul was taught in person by Jesus Christ.
hauntydeathseeker
YOU…crazy, if I remember correctly is a tongues speaker, thus if you do not speak in tongues you can not have the Spirit and can not BE a real christian.
NO YOU don’t remember correctly I NEVER SAID …”I speak in tongues” ..EVER and I never said those whom are without this gift are not real Christians ….YOU LIE
…right there !!!
I have another gift
…crazy..There is no church, anywhere, that has the goods. They cannot. They all belong to the demonic “system” and are not a conduit for truth.
…When any preacher gets up to preach, he has to keep the message within the cultural and political limits that his earthly bosses have prescribed..
… these limitations ruin any chance that unvarnished truth can be made available to the congregation.
Correct maxxy to a point
You…”and are not a conduit for truth”. Hummm ….?
ONE HAS the WORD…the Philadelphia (movement) Church….He says THEY HAVE “KEPT MY WORD” and therefore have the TRUTH.
All the Churches have CREEDS of Faith it’s what makes them have “ALL things in common” Act 2:44
The Triune God is paramount in these Creeds , GO ASK ANY of them from the, Apostolic Church, Orthodox Church, Greek Church , Roman Church ,Protestant, Evangelical Church, even the Jews for Jesus believe in the TRIUNE GOD ….
ALL OF THEM 
A Triune GOD is what they “have in common” that’s WHY HE God speaks to THEM
HIS People in the Book of Revelation.
If you’ve got an ear then hear….Ye must be Born Again as what was done @ Pentecost to see and enter the Kingdom of God.
They CANNOT put any limitations on Gods Word maxxy , I learned ALL I KNOW from reading MY BIBLE with the Aid of “God the Holy Spirit” I did NOT get ANY tuition from ANY Church in regards to my understanding , IT’S all there in your Bible
Ask Seek and you will find ….most Never do this,,,imho
I was Born Again @ 12 yrs old… MY children @ 8 yrs old
“Prostitutes and Tax collectors” are getting in before many a learned person Jews for Jesus are getting into “the Kingdom of God” before MANY church goers.
Cheers maxxy got to go 1 am here ZZzzz
sorry crazy, I mixed you up with some other fellow, and I am very happy you do not mumble.
But I do not want to know of your other “gift”
Crazy only time will tell who is approved of God and who is not, but in the mean time I will continue to follow my Master Jesus Christ as He commanded me to do.
Accepted, Well do I now get an invitation to your new House warming I’ve got your IP
crazy
destined2lie is a replacement theology religion guy, they believe in speaking in tongues and that God pitched out the actual Hebrews and replaced them with gentiles i.e. the church.
and they hate God’s Law just like you.
….Truthseeker…I remember the beginning of our “dispute”. I commented that all a person needed to do to achieve salvation was to ask Jesus. As I recall, your response was to inform me that i was wrong. That he would need to jump through all kinds of O.T. rituals and honor traditions that smack of zionism…TO BE SAVED! I disagreed. You told me that the grace of God was NOT available without honoring the ‘LAW’. I said at that time that realized Christians are those that have internalized the ‘LAW’…LIVED it. You basically told me i was full of it….now, it seems to be that you have changed that tune. You also said that YHVH and Christ were NOT the same being, and did not share the Holy Spirit…yesterday, that was NOT your message. Of a sudden, you sound like I did when you took it upon yourself to chastise me. Are you purposely being vague? Or have your viewpoints been “updated”?
joneys
WOW let’s do this one by one:
I never said we must jump through rituals and traditions — I FOLLOW NO SUCH RITUALS AND TRADITIONS AND NEITHER DID CHRIST OR THE APOSTLES!
The Torah IS NOT RITUALS nor TRADITIONS, it is the SPOKEN WORD OF GOD, it is THE LAW.
I introduced you to the statement of Jesus Christ that clearly said none can come to Him unless the Father calls them first — salvation is not the choice of the individual, they have no part in being called — that is in the Hands of the Father. The God family is “ORDER” not randomness.
I just placed in a comment what I have come to understand concerning God’s grace so look back for that one. It is not what you think.
I clearly explain in this paper the Law is not some how ‘internalized” it must become our nature and it is not just “the Law” the word Jeremiah used is TORAH. The Torah reveals to man the Divine Nature of GOD.
I have always stated the Father and the Son are individual being but both exist by that ONE Spirit of the Father as will we by the first resurrection.
And no there never was a third — a ghost. The Family of God is the Father and the Son, there is no ghost in God’s family.
Some how you are not understanding what I am writing, I attempt to chose my words to lessen the possibility of confusion but with humans that is not always possible.
…Ok ‘friend’…Our nomenclature is askew…just like what you just wrote…”the Law is not some how ‘internalized” it must become our nature and it is not just “the Law”. to me, internalize, and ‘become our nature” mean exactly the same.
…Ghost means spirit…unfortunately the vatican ran with that word.
But the Holy spirit, YHVH’s/Christ’s SPIRIT..Is real..I live within it. Don’t you?
…as far as understanding you …better today, than ever!! And i know why..YOUR ATTITUDE HAS IMPROVED, greatly. I WANT to give you a chance to communicate…you’re not so damn nasty, lately.
…Your flagrant attitude of ‘superiority’ is mellowed.
…There was quite a while, if i heard the word ‘a88hole’, here on this subject column…I would have bet it was directed at you…I’d have come out winning more than I lost. good for you.
jonesy
My nature is naturally very assertive, I have been the boss, the leader most of my life and I naturally speak with authority. I am not pushy but forceful.
the Spirit Christ has came from His Father, it is that ONE spirit, there is only ONE Spirit and it is the Father that it comes from. We are to be sons of the Father and a brother to Christ thus the Father begets HIS sons.
Yes I have my Father’s spirit working in me, removing my carnal human nature and replacing it with HIS Divine Perfect Nature – slowly replacing it.
Did you read the comment on Grace?
troothy and mayhem
So you have finally accepted the ghost but are just trying to maintain your delusional egotripping by arguing that the ghost and the father are one person who is different from the son?
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Alternatively
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of Troothytits and Mayhem:
jonesy
I have posted 3 or 4 long comments, please read them before you comment further they may clarify the confusion.
and read the ones to Jostler as well
…seeker…We have more in common than ( I bet) either of us could have ever expected.
…I think the big barrier, to our communication is language. I relate easier to concepts than I do to explanations, or recitations. I have read and studied continually, and there is not a verse between the covers that i have not consumed and digested, I ‘chew a lot of cud’, if you know what i mean.
…My “ministry’, if you want to call it that, has been based on the simplest of concepts concerning the reasons YHVH came to the earth to live and die, as a man, and what is being accomplished in THIS world through this divine intervention, in THESE times.
…I joined a rock band back in 1964, and just recently retired due to heart attacks. I was able over the many years to witness to many, many young people, about salvation, and ‘clean’ living. Some, I have continued to be in contact with….The message had legs for a few, and that is heart warming. Had I not had a talent for simplification, this occupation would have never succeeded…Had I not “learned” the art of songwriting, I could never have been able to relate to these people. I’m blessed and thankful…Praise YHVH.
Jonesy
Have you ever thought deeply concerning creation and GOD’s purpose for man?? What is the Father and His son doing here on earth?
I rarely get into this but from what you have told me so far you may be ready, It is through out the WORD and when I bring it up many consider it to be blasphemy.
there is a hint in this scripture.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee
This one is emphatic. No need for hints
1 John 3:8
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
jostler
you got it.. and sin is the transgression of the Law 1 John 3: 4
If the Law had been abolished how could the Apostle John make that statement?
Fallen angels. Lucifer and his lieutenants. Cast out of heaven for insurrection. Became Satan and his devils. Their mortal foe, Jesus Christ, Is coming with a double edged sword, this time, not an olive branch.
Wow, antichrist, conman, agent of the devil, or whatever he is, this dude is a pretty good liar! He had me going for a second sweetening that carefully prepared snack of camel dung with just the right amount of truth. It was like being really really thirsty on a hot summer day, taking a chug off an ice cold bottle of Pepsi when inside the neck a slimy chunk of something in the final stage of decomposition stops the flow. The impulse to vomit is overwhelmingly untamed. This imaginatively cunning author squeezing the “trinity lie” between both cheeks was hiding in the bushes just waiting for everyone to get in the pool before he pooped his swimsuit. At just the right moment he springs the old “Christ did not just come up with those two great Precepts, Christ had given them to Moses on the mountain long long ago.” What a hairy pile of crap! No bud, the Eternal God Yahweh Elohim provided Moses the Law, Jesus although prophesied hadn’t been born yet.
Those who are gullible enough gobble up this nonsense offered by this unrepentant spiritual retard are in urgent need of assistance. The Bible tells us that God Almighty Himself is the creator of all things, including Jesus Christ. Nothing like trying to reduce Yahweh to the level of His own creation. Demeaning God in this fashion isn’t behavior that is pleasing to God, but I can tell you who at the opposite end of the spectrum is delighted. Those who rely on fables and are assured by their overstuffed self image, they find perverted contentment in the company of whom they themselves insured confusion. Truth always the first casualty.
Be forewarned, I’m not commissioned to like others out of political correctness to beat around that bush. I am compelled by “truth” to boldly jump into this blasphemous sewage neck deep in defense of a most wonderful God. This is an emergency. Good people are drowning in this sea of outright malarkey, they’re clinging to the non-buoyant when truth is the time tested vessel they seek to seat. Knowing not the One True God their demon inspired ignorance flows like perspiration polluting the “water of life.” Through sheer stupidity the miraculous intention that God has in store for those who love and obey remains beyond the grasp of evil men wanting His secrets. Condemned to shame they simply fabricate what by lacking the Spirit they are deprived of understanding.
God is calling, for many this will be your time. Jesus, the first of God’s sons raised from the dead is coming. It’s time to grow up Spiritually and move from milk to meat. The oppression of deceit is Satan’s gift God’s Truth is the way to everlasting life. To understand the basics of God’s plan begin reading in Rev 21:2. The time has been spoken Pentecost 2019. Make good use of what remaining time we have.
A Student of the Word
so anonymous the scriptures quoted and used in the paper are all lies??? including these???
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and “hath learned of the Father” , cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
So please explain this scripture below in light of the statement of Jesus Christ above.
11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
If Christ came to reveal the Father and only Jesus Christ has SEEN the Father who then did Moses speak face to face with??? Do you think it could be that Rock of our salvation — Jesus Christ???? That Rock that followed Israel for 40 years in the wilderness??
…Seeker…”If Christ came to reveal the Father and only Jesus Christ has SEEN the Father who then did Moses speak face to face with??? Do you think it could be that Rock of our salvation — Jesus Christ???? That Rock that followed Israel for 40 years in the wilderness??”
…Melchizedec?…
jonesy
the Father has never come down to earth, only the Son i.e The Word, has come to earth. Christ IS the Creator God i.e the builder. the Father is the architect. All things created were made by Christ. The Father planned it and Christ built it.
Christ is the one that walked in the garden with Adam, Christ is the one that wrote the 10 Commandments in two tables of Stone. Christ talked face to face with Moses not the Father.
Christ came to reveal the Father and to show us how to worship HIM, worship means to follow or copy.
All of the statements of Christ carry huge meaning and can and should be used to bring light to the entire word of God.
When scriptures are brought together as I did above for anonymous then Truth is revealed.
Do you remember what Christ said to the Pharisees “before Abraham was “I AM” that is the name Moses used in Exodus 3 as the Name of God
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
Christ just told the Pharisees He is “I AM” and the Jew picked up stones to stone Him for what He told them.
There are many important keys to understanding without which the bible can not be understood, this is one.
The entire christian world believes Christ came to changes His Father’s Laws, but they are Christ’s Laws and He is the One that made the first covenant .
It is His Covenant that HE changed.
seeker…I thought you’d catch that. You see, I can’t view the father and the son as two separate beings.
…’the Father has never come down to earth, only the Son….
…Identify Melchizedec. Abraham saw him face to face.
seeker…Melchizedec,,,’the King of the zedoc’ King of the righteous. sounds like Jesus’s personna. what do you think?
jonesy
since Abraham paid tithes to him I would guess Melchizedek is the WORD, I have never studies this to any depth to be able to give an answer.
If they were one entity with two identities then the son is the father of himself. Not Torah legal!
And if the son died by who’s power was the universe held in position for 3 days and 3 nights?
If Christ did not die — He is not our Passover.
Paul tells us that we can understand the spiritual by the physical even the godhead.
What was the command given by God to Adam, have children and over spread the earth with the human kind.
And God set in place a law – kind produces kind thus a chicken can never produce a dove and a trout can never produce a gold fish — a spirit can never procreate with flesh thus Angels fornicating with humans is not possible.
In Genesis 1: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: God is reproducing after HIS OWN KIND.
Elohiym is a family of which the human family is a physical copy.
Philippians 3l: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body,
if we are to have the same body as Jesus Christ what will we be?
Jesus Christ is the First of many sons and He came to pioneer THAT WAY to eternal life that we may follow HIM>
…seeker…Christ is the “only ‘begotten son of YHVH. However He created all the rest….Jesus came from the Lord’s ‘seed’….BEGOTTEN.
…It looks like we’re back to arguing…don’t it?
jonesy
first begotten among men, and begotten just as the father begets us BY HIS “SEED” i. e. His HOLY SPIRIT.
In my mind the Spirit can be understood as the spiritual DNA of the Father which is why we can call HIM FATHER. We are impregnated by HIS Spirit and become a spiritual fetus waiting our “term” before being born again.
Remember Christ is FIRST in ALL THINGS
first in being begotten
first in baptism
first in the laying on of Hands and receiving the Spirit
First to rise from death.
Father, Son and Holy Spurt
If Christ came to reveal the Father and only Jesus Christ has SEEN the Father who then did Moses speak face to face with??? Do you think it could be that Rock of our salvation — Jesus Christ???? That Rock that followed Israel for 40 years in the wilderness??
=============
If it was YHWH that Moses saw then it was YHWH who was executed along with His laws.
damine
as always you are more then just a little confused;
YHWH was NOT executed along with His Laws — He was slain BECAUSE of HIS LAW.
By God the Father presumably.
damine
I can help the uninformed but not the stupid
Destined2Bveryconfused
I have been waiting patiently for you to critique this paper, I know you have a staff of highly educated folks that “KNOW” their stuff, proving what is written is false should be a snap for your crack team of brilliant scholars.
I critique your stuff every chance i get so turn about is fair play right?
Don’t say i did not give you a fair chance to blow what I quote out of the water.
You know if you all got together and spoke to each other in unknown tongues maybe you would get inspired or something??
What’s your favorite color?
I’m being serious, Truthseeker.
What’s your favorite color? Green? Blue? Red?
gold
That’s a good one. +100!
…Timely song lyric from 35 years ago…Jethro tull ‘Aqualung’…
When I was young and they packed me off to school
and taught me how not to play the game,
I didn’t mind if they groomed me for success,
or if they said that I was a fool.
So I left there in the morning
with their God tucked underneath my arm –
their half-assed smiles and the book of rules.
So I asked this God a question
and by way of firm reply,
He said — I’m not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
So to my old headmaster (and to anyone who cares):
before I’m through I’d like to say my prayers –
I don’t believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong –
He’s not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
Well you can excomunicate me on my way to Sunday school
and have all the bishops harmonize these lines –
how do you dare tell me that I’m my Father’s son
when that was just an accident of Birth.
I’d rather look around me — compose a better song
`cos that’s the honest measure of my worth.
In your pomp and all your glory you’re a poorer man than me,
as you lick the boots of death born out of fear.
I don’t believe you:
you had the whole damn thing all wrong –
He’s not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays.
…same album…actually 45 years ago:
“My God”
People — what have you done –
locked Him in His golden cage.
Made Him bend to your religion –
Him resurrected from the grave.
He is the god of nothing –
if that’s all that you can see.
You are the god of everything –
He’s inside you and me.
So lean upon Him gently
and don’t call on Him to save you
from your social graces
and the sins you used to waive.
The bloody Church of England –
in chains of history –
requests your earthly presence at
the vicarage for tea.
And the graven image you-know-who –
with His plastic crucifix –
he’s got him fixed –
confuses me as to who and where and why –
as to how he gets his kicks.
Confessing to the endless sin –
the endless whining sounds.
You’ll be praying till next Thursday to
all the gods that you can count.
Jonesy
I want to make sure you read this scripture: Christ IS —- THE FIRST BORN OF MANY BRETHREN.
9 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I try hard not to say anything that can not be backed up by clear scripture.
Aww. Troothy and Mayhem think they have an escape hatch from Judah.
…Strangely enough daemon…I’d say it looks like it…that’s the first and prolly the last thing you’ve said i understood at all.
…Truthseeker…I’m not going to argue with you any more…YHVH and Christ with their Holy Spirit, are ONE person…The Creator, God.
.prophecy fulfilled. Your obvious disregard of end time revelation…looks antichristian (satanic) to me, Just as dumb as rapture theory. I call you arrogant and you have let me know, how stupid and unread and ignorant you think I am…At least I know what time it is…and what it means.
.. How, it is that way, IS ineffable, and i don’t claim to know. I know its true.
…The Jewish traditions and rituals you ‘say’ you honor…Are today SPIRITUALLY irrelevant…Now that the elect have the LAW as their NATURE…and All prophecy is being fulfilled, as we speak. There is no more of the Torah, that has any potential for being relevant to our current era….what’s true has come to reality, already…We’re to look forward not back…its time.
…That’s what i told you the first time we clashed, back a couple of years…What’s happening on this earth…right now is what i told you was happening back then…Just closer to
…You can just go on with yourself, and wait for some “future” revelations, or realize that this is truly the end…and accept the truth of now.
Speaking of the proximity to the great and awesome day doesn’t that just explain Truthseeker’s impatience with ya’ll?
jonesy if the Torah is no more —- then the WORD of God is no more.
The TORAH was spoken to Moses on the mountain by GOD, and placed in the Ark of the Covenant; you are pitching out the WORD of GOD.
I can not do that and I will never do that.
I will not “bother” you further.
mayhem
Thank you!
One of my “worries” and what drives me is the fact so many are so deceived exactly as the Word states they will be at the time of the end.
The deceived are not the pagans but so called christians,
I have been watching for the events taking place right now since 1968 — they are here.
I do want to wake up every one, so far Mayhem I have only found you and one or two others after 5 years that understand the LAW IS HOLY and ETERNAL and the time is short.
I do not believe what I have placed on BIN has changed a single mind. They all believe following the same life, the same Path Christ lived is evil.
The majority want to follow the doctrine the catholic church invented and or stole from the pagans. they hate the Law.
I am not setting dates — but it is “possible” this fall could begin the 7 year time of the end.. What we are seeing in Venezuela right now is coming to the US soon. I am not saying it is this fall just that it a possibility,
I am reminded of a warning ” If they hated ME they will hate you also.
Truthseeker,
Sir, I would like to ask you a question if I may. To start off with I would like to say that I admire your desire to be as obedient as you can in serving Jesus. Being obedient to Christ is something every Christian should desire. I samuel 15:22. Anyway on to my question. In Mathew 3:1-17 to follow Jesus I believe that He wants us to be Baptized.
In Matthew 28:18-20 Jesus tells us to be baptized in the NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Okay with me so far?
Every other time in the scriptures, people are baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
Acts 2:38
Acts 10:48
Acts 19:5
Galatians 3:27
Col 2:12
I peter 3:21
Okay, now that I have shared the Scriptures I look at it this way. God the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost as in Matthew 28. None of these are names. Father is not a name it is a title, Son is not a name it is a title, Holy Ghost is not a name but again a title. All other Scriptures show people being baptized into the Name of Jesus. I see this as showing that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy ghost in the new testament is JESUS. One God. Is this what you would agree with as one Almighty God.
This is not to be disrespectful in any way.
I thank you for your answer.
anonymous
that is an honest question and I will attempt to answer as best as i can in a short comment.
Putting together those and many more scriptures here is what I have come to believe.
After repenting of transgressing God’s Law a repentant person must then be submersed under the water – baptized – into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ –symbolically- we join Christ in His death, burial and His coming up out of the grave to immortal life.
What is a name, it states immersed, baptized, into the name of the Father.
in strong’s name also means authority. I see this as stating baptizing in or with the authority of the Father and also the Son. I know it does not state it here but after baptism the Holy Spirit of the Father is poured or placed IN the repentant person by the laying on of hands,
by the authority of the Father and the Son a person joins in the death, burial and resurrection AND receives the indwelling of the Father’s Spirit through the laying on of hands immersing them into the body of Christ by that Holy Spirit.
I did not get all of that from that one verse but from many many scriptures , doctrine is gathered Here a little and there a little.
the laying of of hands is a foundational doctrine of Jesus Christ see Hebrews 6: 1 -3
My understanding comes from scriptures explaining the salvation process and God’s plan of Salvation.
If you have followed some of my comments you know I do not believe in a trinity I believe there are TWO, the Father and the Son and the Spirit is the Father’s spirit not a ghost or a third.
Elohiym is the family Name of the God Family of which there are 2.
It sad but most ignore verse 20
verse 19
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Truthseeker,
Thank you for your reply, I may have placed this reply in the wrong spot but there was no reply button available at the end of your response.
I have only one question to ask, I see the name of God you use as Elohiym. Are you by chance L.D.S.?
Thank you.
anonymous
I keep the 7the Day Sabbath and all 7 Holy Days and obey the Torah including the statute of clean and unclean meats. Nope I am not a LDS or JW or an 7 day Adventist I simply follow Jesus Christ on that narrow path.
Truthseeker
Thanks so much, I am glad to hear that. I try to please the lord in what I do and say, I know that I am not perfect but God is not finished with me yet. His Grace is still needed.
However I do not believe that Gods Grace is a license for us to sin.
Romans 6:1.
All of us should try to live Godly in spite of persecutions. God has given us His Word and Will and Example. Those who know Gods will does it not to him that is sin. James 4:17
Thank you for your thoughts and answers.
To obey is better than sacrifice. I Samuel 15:22-23
…seeker The Law is eternal. MEN’S traditions are not…Can you not separate the two? Are you trying to impress other scholars, or trying to bring the the little ones to Christ? If you keep on preaching the Old Jewish “men’s” traditions, you’ll never have success, bringing people to Christ….picture it this way…some youngster asks you about becoming a Christian…what do you say? ‘It’s free and easy to do…’,..or do you say, “well…you’ve got to study for seven years and learn about all the Jewish traditions and keep all the jewish holidays…and then if you’ve done all that you can ask YHVH for a blessing and………make sense to you?
…It seems to me you are judging who is recognizable as “Christian”, and who is not…by YOUR standards of biblical knowledge.
…That’s why I say your way of presenting the gospel is ‘antichristian’…you are not facilitating conversion…you are obfuscating conversion with your “OWN PRIVATE UNDERSTANDINGS….I say “get off that high horse and try to communicate the glorious news of the Christ…so it is accessible to the “little ones”. If any need more…have faith that the Holy Spirit can take care of it.
…STOP BEING SO DAMNED ‘exclusionary’….Have a little faith in your fellow man, that Christ can find a way with them.
jonesy
MY FAITH MY TRUST IS IN MY FATHER AND HIS SON!
All men are liars, I trust NONE no not ONE!
AND there is only ONE “WAY” , there is only one door into the kingdom.
the 10 commandments written in stone by the finger of GOD are NOT JEWISH TRADITIONS
The Sabbath GOD made on the 7th day of creation is NOT A JEWISH TRADITION.
The HOLY DAYS OF GOD HAVE NOT ONE THING TO DO WITH THE JEWS, THEY ARE GOD’S DAYS
NONE OF THE ABOVE ARE TRADITIONS, I have no traditions I keep no traditions.
I want noting to do with sunday, easter, xmas, a trinity, going to heaven, or “giving my heart to the LORD”!
I should have known — when you said Christ “completed you” – I should have run away then. You seek emotion, feelings not facts nor logic.
NOPE” I will have none of what you offer or believe or are selling I PASS>
…ok pharisee….whatever you believe is Ok with me…I love you with a pure heart…You’ll be Ok…Even if you believe you need no other instruction, You’ll get it anyway..cause you’re a good man.
…you’re a faithful and dedicated man…I know you’re lonely.
I’ve tried with you, to open a dialogue that would require you to rethink your own jealously guarded, and hard won ‘religious’ security.
I won’t apologize for that, but I will tell you that you are missing out on some stuff you’re gonna want to catch up with. I know that you are not ever going to believe that, but its true.
…I’ve heard you tell someone else that his beliefs were ‘set in concrete’….That’s what i think about yours….I know I’ve gotten more out of our discussions than you have….That’s my failing, and my blessing. My hope is for your soul to meet Christ on the THRONE of the MOST HIGH. May YHVH bless your search. max
jonesy
I made a $ ???,000.00 mistake yesterday, My daughter and my wife and I prayed and 10 minutes later a call came out of the blue and it was fixed.
My FATHER hears me. He hears me always and for over 47 years, do you really think I would leave My Father for this dead world and its dead religions?
Jonesy it still amazes me that not only you but others look upon the Sabbath as a tradition of men.. really?? God created a tradition of the Jews on the 7th Day of Creation??
…seeker…the Sabbath Is truly of YHVH…Where you and I differ, is my rest, respite, my SABBATH IS Jesus Christ. He and I commune daily…actually all day every day. One day is no different than any other. Every day is Sabbath. Everyday of my life is dedicated to and spent in the intimate company of my Savior. I have no ceremony, nor tradition, nor ritual in my life…I celebrate Passover, For Jesus is MY Passover…I recognize Pentecost, for I am a child of the Holy Spirit. The feast of tabernacles is a holy day, just for my own spirit.
I keep these by calculating with the ‘solar’ calendar…Passover is 15 days after the first day of the year-the spring equinox…first day of Pentecost is 50 days after Passover….these NEVER change….The calendar is calculated by ‘moons’, months, and because all the prophecies that involve Satan’s dates are described in moons, I reject the use of moons to calculate. I relate these things to you as example of my own ‘studies’…and my practice.
…Seeker…Anything and everything I believe, has been expressed to me in spirit. Sometimes it takes me a week to get through a single chapter. I weep, often.
…I am pleased that your family is involved in your spiritual life.
…In honesty, I am truly sorry for being such a butthead…but your “perceived” (my perception) obtuseness, has me totally puzzled, ‘frustrated’, if you will….and I have been REALLY emotional of late.
…You can’t offend me, I know you are as honest as can be…If I have offended you, believe me it was all to bring some of your ‘hidden’ beliefs out into the open. I got what i needed out of you, and that is over.
…Be blessed and keep on keeping on.
…I miss you already, but I can’t keep on with you….our differences on YHVH and Christ being one person, are too deeply held to ever be reconciled…and are of utmost importance in my faith. max
well jonesy
I see you have designed your very own religion based upon your own mind and desires and feelings and not the the word of God. even your date are your own.
How do you differ from the 4000 flavors of confusion? They also make up their own rules and traditions and worship the WAY they want to, just like you are doing.
using your logic then there can be 100 billion folks worshiping in 100 billion ways — don’t think that is what God has in mind.
Jonesy really why would I follow you??? you are in total confusion.
…Oh seeker…I didn’t design anything….I was born into it. Pre-destined before the foundation of this planet.
You’ll never give up trying, I know. You’re a good and reverent man.
…Why would anyone want ‘followers’, I certainly don’t. I need no reaffirmation of my faith. I’m just looking for kindred souls to relate to. You’re not one…but I did have hope you were.
…I’m OK here. You’re OK where you are. YHVH Himself has the last word…just as he did the first.
…I’ve experienced being, flat-lined…. dead, and have no ‘fantasies’…I have reality. Spiritual identity.
…We all get exactly what we have prepared ourselves for. And that is in this earthly life, also. I find more spiritual evidence every day, of the truth of what is going on. I am not trapped in any paradigm. I am like a sponge, I absorb all I can of all the Holy Spirit lays upon my heart. I trust the LORD, and, all I do, every minute of my time, is in conscious acceptance of what the Spirit Is raining down. I am a Spiritual soul who sees the truth in a completely different manner than someone like yourself, who is still trying to reconcile the earthly understanding of YHVH and Christ, With the “spiritual reality”, which you have yet to discover, in your earthly QUEST.
…I still will miss our continuous argument…It makes me remember the old days when I argued with all my “earthly minded”, scripture and prophecy professors…really good times.
…One day you will understand.
…I remember you in my prayer. Have a blessed evening.
…You’re OK. there’s still a bit of time for us as Earthly beings. We will all get where we are going.
…PS…I’m happy for you that your ‘mistake’ came out alright. I know how important that money is to you guys.
jonesy are you aware that Christ was a builder and He owned 2 homes.
God want us to be prosperous.
I am selling my home so I can get as far away from people as possible.
What is coming will cause the death of 2/3 of the population of the US — I do not want to be near cities or people. I will be going in about month and a half.
..,seeker…sounds like you are really gonna go…I hope you survive…if that’s what you want.
…I have not planned anything. This is not my home to start with. I’ve not fit any where in my whole life…
… We are here, watching the world go to the devil…Its a rather entertaining phenomenon, actually…
… The prophecies nailed it …in spades. There’s a lot of suffering, but there’s no way around it. The earthly paradigm, never allowed for total destruction. Its beyond common imagination..
…I’ll be here till the end…7th trump. That’s what I’ve got to look forward to. I’m very thankful the time has been shortened. Its not going to be ‘entertaining’ much longer.
…I cry a lot lately. Just the image of a joyful child can bring me to tears. My favorite old songs do it too.
…have you noticed how absolutely beautiful the children are these days?…
…check this essay out…You’ll be impressed with the depth of the research:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9OLkipOzWYqY3dSa3RiUUFoZVE/view?pref=2&pli=1
…seeker…christ built two houses?show please.
Yes’ repent seeker, listen to maxxy as he say’s children are getting in AHEAD of YOU , Prostitutes and Tax collectors also IN even the “Jews for Jesus” are FLOWING INTO the KINGDOM
AHEAD of YOU and your LAWYER understandings, come waste not anymore time ?, your days are numbered, Join the “Glorious NEW covenant” and “LIVE BY FAITH ALONE” the ONLY TRUE religion.
maxxy is right your missing OUT on the “HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD” you’ve made Yourself exclusive …NO CHURCHES believe your nonsense …NONE no ekklesia speaketh as you ? , So how can you call yourself
a CHRISTIAN ??? is beyond me… 
You’ve made a $ ???,000.00 mistake alright and NO-One can help you this next time as your still in your Sins as you’ve thrown away the “Glorious New Covenant” and replaced it with a LIE REPENT the Lord Come’th as a thief and YOUR NAKEDNESS will be revealed as you’ve NOT entered the Sabbath Rest of the LORD.
You sure know how to make a MESS of the GOSPEL of GRACE “the Glorious New Covenant “
seeker what are you running from YOURSELF ? what is not of FAITH is of the Devil, there is NO -Where to HIDE unless your IN the Glorious New Covenant …the Body of Christ the ekklesia of God the BRIDE …He will NOT open ONE SEAL on His Bride …Do NOT LIVE IN FEAR …Repent and TRUST GOD
jonesy/maxxy
here are the scriptures I used to determine that Christ had two homes
Mark 1: 9
9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode [still] in Galilee.
13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
He had a home in Capernaum and in Galilee
There is another scripture showing one home had a big room that held I think it was one hundred.
I have to leave I will find it later.
After 50 yrs of living in the Wilderness with the Book of Moses and 5 more yrs here with 1- 5 followers Humm Sounds like a wast of Time to me, btw, YOU could have been with the TRUE CHURCH of GOD the one BORN @ Pentecost the CHURCH and had fellowship with Millions of HIS Saints , instead of blowing your own trumpet putting MILSTONES around peoples necks down here in the Dark.
Come out of Unbelief and BELIEVE that Y’shua HAS FULFILLED the LAW OF MOSES and nailed it to the Cross
Trust NOT in your OWN understandings and fairy-tales that you write here in fairyland …Join the ekkesia of GOD those whom have been sealed as Sons, for the day of His precious possession, the rescue of His BRIDE set forth in His Precepts of rescue (of the righteous) seen throughout Scripture
crazy you want me to trust in your understanding — no thanks
I trust in the WORD of God and that WORD says you have no clue what you are doing.
seeker where is that SPOCK like LOGIC you talk about so much ?
The CHURCH WAS founded @ Pentecost by the “Holy Spirit of GOD” “the Comforter” (HE will guide you IN ALL TRUTHS).
IT was “NOT founded by the LAW”
as these NEW CONVERTS did NOT go and Join the Temple leaders in Jerusalem on CONVERSION they had a NEW BEGINNING they had the TRUTH IN THEM the “Holy Spirit of GOD” they called themselves CHRISTIAN to show the difference IN THEM.
They (CHRISTIANS) uphold the LAW (in context)
by Preaching “CHRIST CRUCIFIED” as a FULFILLMENT of the LAW, we have NOT DONE AWAY WITH IT (the Law) …WE UPHOLD IT …as Paul said 
seekerYOU…”I want noting to do with” , “going to heaven”, or “giving my heart to the LORD”!
…Wow I’m beginning to see what maxxy says your antichrist.
You…here are the scriptures I used to determine that Christ had two homes
or maybe (3)
Bawahahahah !!!
Stop it your killing me (2, 3 ) homes you say
Matthew 8:20 He said He has nowhere to lay HIS Head …inotherwords NO HOME on Earth as He did NOT serve mammon BUT the Father …Unlike you.
…he’s just displayed exactly what he accuses us of…I think his boat got rocked…there may be hope. He’s too smart not to recognize it. That temple he lives in will be torn down…lets just hope he’s got an option on one of the houses he says Christ ‘built’.
Crazy
So Jesus and his mother and brothers and sisters just lived in the streets??? LOL
Do you think the member of the GOD family, Jesus, would not be successful at His work here on earth ??? That He would be broke — His coat they cast lots over was seamless i.e expensive.
Crazy even clear scriptures have not and will not turn your mind around, you will wait until the 2nd resurrection when the WAY of God is all there is upon this earth and then it will be explained and your mind will be opened and you crazy will also love the Law of GOD!
Ps they were called, by others, Christians, first at Antioch , They were Sons of God, Holy Ones and members of the Body of Christ, that term came from the world – not God.
The term Christians is used only 3 times and the 2nd time it was used by a gentile ;Agrippa.
Peter is the only one to use it to refer to the Saints,
Crazy you and jonesy have so many fact and statements confused and mixed up and you expect folks to believe you ????? If you can not get facts straight how can you be trusted with doctrine????
…Crazy…The CHURCH WAS founded @ Pentecost by the “Holy Spirit of GOD” “the Comforter” (HE will guide you IN ALL TRUTHS).
IT was “NOT founded by the LAW”
as these NEW CONVERTS did NOT go and Join the Temple leaders in Jerusalem on CONVERSION they had a NEW BEGINNING they had the TRUTH IN THEM the “Holy Spirit of GOD” they called themselves CHRISTIAN to show the difference IN THEM.
They (CHRISTIANS) uphold the LAW (in context)
by Preaching “CHRIST CRUCIFIED” as a FULFILLMENT of the LAW, we have NOT DONE AWAY WITH IT (the Law) …WE UPHOLD IT …as Paul said 
…Really beautiful…..
crazy and jonesy
One fact you are overlooking, the priest and lawyers Knew the Law but just like you two they did not want to keep it which is why Christ made the statement “teaching for doctrines the commandment of men”
the priest made up there own list of do’s and don’t s just like you two do. They came up with their own law their own way.
I have quoted Christ who said follow what they say but do not do as they DO! follow the Torah teaching but nothing else.
And how is it you can not seem to realize the word “fulfilled” also means to FILL UP TO THE FULL which blows to bits your twist of the words of Christ right after He said “do not think I came to destroy the Law”
Was that a mistaken use of words ‘not destroy” by Christ are did HE LIE?
As a matter of fact you two are fulling the statement of Christ “teaching for doctrines the commandment of men”, what you espouse and do your selves are of your own minds and can not be found in the Word.
Awh shucks maxxy , I’ll have to be nicer to you now
Glad yo like it as it’s
the TRUTH that SEEKER seeks 
seeker ” I have never told a single person what “building” to attend or what group of folks to associate with”
Of course you don’t and WON”T as YOU’VE NO AFFILIATION with ANYONE except ur family and the (5) followers down here in the dark ….certainly NOT the CHURCHES the ekklesia of God whom God speaks too in the Book of Revelation and YOU also don’t even have a NAME for your group/brethren
of Orphans
iIf so, What’s it’s Name ? so we can understand your PRIVATE… Philosophy and Theology as it ‘s NOT the one delivered unto the Saint, the ekklesia of God whom had All things in common (7 churches), Whom else do YOU have “in common” who follow you understanding except the Jews and SDA.
In-fact it took you 45 – 50 yrs to come to your understanding to date ….and now you claim you have the WAY ,” THAT WAY” into the Kingdom ?
What use is it to the children ? (as you once were) to wait so long to gain ALL your understand of Salvation, it took you 40 plus yrs of Sinning and now you say “I’m the 1% er” who’s right ?, as I keep ALL the Feast and the Law (NOW) ,
Yeah ! now your in your Golden yrs , God will not be fooled
REPENT and Believe…not one dot is changed Until all is fulfilled and it “WAS” fulfilled
TO THE FULL when Christ was crucified for US…that’s WHY we are told to Celebrate Christ Crucified at Passover.
…crazy, I have determined that truthseeker is quite sincere. He may not know spiritual liberation, but he’s not out to proselytize, anyway. He has to work harder than anyone else here…besides ricardo, to make his theology cogent. Dedication Is at least worth some respect.
…We’ve got great revelations to come soon, I pray seeker’s hard work has prepared him for realization. I don’t believe any one on the planet (survivors) will be able, to, not bend a knee. He’s got a lot of time and effort into his quest, that’s got to be worth something. His lack of real confidence is putting him on the run. As long as he knows the false messiah comes first, he’s got a fighting chance.
…He can’t help projecting his need for approval on the rest of us…he thinks we are out to change his manner of worship, make him a follower. (because that is what HE really wants… followers). He doesn’t have any idea what’s going on. I determined, that, from this very page. He’s still tied and committed to his ‘earthly identification’.
jonesy
you are correct I am not “liberated’ from the law that states do not lie or murder or fornicate or use the Authority of God in a useless manner.
But I am freed from the “curse’ of the Law and that curse is DEATH. The Law is not a curse it is a blessing to all who love and obey it.
What you and the vast majority refuse to understand, Christ came to free those called by the Father from the penalty of death for transgressing the LAW —-
You demand to be freed from the Law which does not in any way remove the curse which you and all that hate the Law are UNDER right now even to day!
You are so eager to be freed from the authority of God – so eager you tell Christ He can not rule over you because you have been freed from all authority, on earth and from heaven.
When you finally understand the LAW is a blessing you will look back on this lie you have embraced with shame.
jonesy-maxxy and crazy
let me put this is another light:
the god you acknowledge died to remove from off your backs the “bother” and the “annoyance’ of obeying Law, righteous LAW at that.
My Father sent His Son to free me from the “results” of my sins –
Christ freed me from the penalty of death I had earned by fornicating, lying, wanting to murder and stealing and lusting after what others have plus worshiping the works of my hands and taking His name in vain.
there is a big difference here and you refuse to see it — you know in your mind and gut the LAW is righteous and HOLY.
If the whole world kept only ONE it would bring peace to mankind and that it the LAW You and all the others Hate because it shows you are sinners.
the Law is the LIGHT that shine on your sin so your sin is seen even in the darkness of night.
maxxy ..:”I have determined that truthseeker is quite sincere”
Yes’ “Sincerely wrong”
crazy
explain in detail why the comment above your comment is false.
“sincerely wrong” is nothing more then your opinion which is worthless. What you have “determined” — based upon WHAT??
Explain how the statements made above do not comply with Holy Scripture??
Crazy you will not even attempt to answer because you have no foundation, no facts, no scriptures – nothing to back up your comment.
Crazy if you can not prove my comments invalid with scripture and logic — then you are just running your mouth.
crazy i am posting this request once more in hopes you will respond, I doubt you will, how can you????
explain in detail why the comment above your comment is false.
“sincerely wrong” is nothing more then your opinion which is worthless. What you have “determined” — based upon WHAT??
Explain how the statements made above do not comply with Holy Scripture??
Crazy you will not even attempt to answer because you have no foundation, no facts, no scriptures –no truth— nothing to back up your comment.
Crazy if you can not prove my comments invalid with scripture and logic — then you are just running your mouth.
It appears, jonesy, as though Greek isn’t the only language you have difficulty with and since you’re obviously all good with lecturing folk on their manners you shouldn’t mind too much if i point something out.
Arrogance, my friend, looks like this…
“His lack of real confidence is putting him on the run… He can’t help projecting his need for approval on the rest of us.” – jonesy
… whereas humility looks like this…
“I try hard not to say anything that can not be backed up by clear scripture.” -Truthseeker
… so then do you see that accusing Truthseeker of being arrogant (X3), egotistical (X3) and prideful then back tracking to where he has no real confidence makes you look dumb?
jonesy
“but he’s not out to proselytize,”
I am glad you noticed jonesy!
No I am not proselytizing — I have never told a single person what “building” to attend or what group of folks to associate with
It seems, although I did not knowingly make this my purpose, I am simply pointing out sin and pointing to that very narrow path that the few find — that difficult path that Jesus Christ blazed (left us trail markers to follow) for us to follow.
And as for the last 2000 years — only the very very few will hear.