The Quantum - 'Oxford Physicist Proves the Universe isn't Real; We Live in a Cosmic Hologram', With Dr Jude Currivan and Alex Ferrari, May 30th 2023

This was posted only a week ago. The idea which Dr Currivan puts forward is that the universe is a non-localized unity, which flies in the face of our current political view of a New World Order and imposed government, where the unity is localized. According to Dr Currivan, mind and consciousness is the basis of the universe, and so its physical finite aspect is not really real, but real only to our five senses. That the discoveries of Quantum Physics puts the cap on, or the stopper in, our current worldview of power, authority, stealing and lying legitimized to get that power. Top-down management needs to be supplanted by collegial management, imposed control by self-control. As long as we are not in control of ourselves, demons control, and we ‘kick the dog’ – the weaker in our society, or in our families, to try and get back that sense of self-control, of purpose in our lives. White magic (seed thought, leaving the soul free) is supplanted by black magic (manipulation of the form to control the mind, which is what the vaccines do), and man is not himself. So read on..

Dr Jude Currivan with Alex Ferrari (Next Level Soul Podcast)

May 31st, 2023

Dr. Jude Currivan: We would come to a time, and I do feel it’s now when we would literally remember who we really are. We would remember our terrestrial, our intraterrestrial and our extraterrestrial heritage.

Next Level Soul

Alex Ferrari: I’d like to welcome to the show, Dr. Jude Currivan. How are you doing, Dr. Jude?

Dr Jude: I’m delighted to be here, Alex. Thanks so much for inviting me. It’s a very rainy day in England. So you’re bringing sunshine into my day. So thank you so much!

Alex: I appreciate that. I heard you guys had a fairly warm summer, the past?

Dr Jude: We did, but we’re now making up for it. And we’re getting a blessing.

Alex: Because that’s, I mean, England is beautiful, but it’s not known for its wonderful white sand beaches.

Dr Jude: Well !?

Alex: Is it?

Dr Jude: Some nice beaches, but at the moment I personally would not invite you onto one, because, oh, there was some rain and lots of waves.

Alex: So sad, but I appreciate it. So I’m going to jump right into it. What was- how did you begin your journey into spirituality and science? Which is- I love that bridge that you’re able to bring between the two.

Dr Jude: So far past. I was four years old, really , when I began this journey. And it was a- it was more a dance because it wasn’t, you know, spirituality or science, it was a dance of the two, right from the get go. Right from the get go. I was very young, I grew up in the north of England. My dad was a coal-miner, as was my grandad. So we were not an intellectual family by any stretch. But there was a lot of love. And that was just as well, because I was the cuckoo in the nest. Because I was a very strange child, in so far that I was experiencing sort of multi-dimensional realities, literally, since I was very early – since I was about four years old. And so I was having telepathic experiences, pre-cognitive dreams, out of body experiences. And I was also engaging and communicating with what, you know, a lot of parents would have described as “imaginary friends”. But since I didn’t tell anybody that I was having these communications, nobody said, “Oh, they’re just imaginary.” And that became a lifelong journey of literally walking between worlds in such a natural way that it’s- it’s part and parcel of my life.

So my spirituality, if we want to call it that, because it never felt separate from the rest of my life and experience and existence. But nonetheless, that ‘non-physical eyes’, I suppose, aspect- aspects of my life, were there from the very earliest times. But I do remember as well, when I was about the same age, looking up into the sky and being fascinated by the stars. And somehow, there’s something within me that from a very, again, early age, I was able to recognize the patterns that we call constellations. And so from 6, 7, 8 years old, if I’d have been so plunked down in a strange place, I would have been able to find my way home, through the stars. And so I was fascinated by the universe.. And so science! And as my question was, from that date- those days, you know, ‘How was what I was experiencing- how did that then bridge into the realities of our universe?’ Because I was experiencing the world as a much, much grander place. So for me, there’s never been a break. It’s never been a bridge, because there’s never been for me a bridge to cross. It  was just experiencing, seeing, exploring the world in those two different ways. One was from the head, and one more from the heart, and from the- and from the experience.

Alex: Well, let me ask you, I mean, at a certain point. in your travels, you realized that not everybody has these- these, uh, talking to the different multi-realities, and, and have this kind of understanding. So I’d imagine at a certain point in your journey, you said, “Oh, I’m- I’m the weirdo. I’m the one that nobody else.. I better either keep this quiet or come out with it.” But then you also went down the academic route, which I know does not – doesn’t sound very open minded to this kind of- this kind of talk. So how did you deal, or, you know, kind of balance those two worlds once you realized you were not- ..This was not a normal scenario?

Dr Jude: I actually think it’s more normal than people let on, you know. You know, I get people for decades have sort of cornered me at parties and said, “I’ve never shared this with anyone..”

Alex: (laughter) I get that too now.. I get that too, the same!”

Dr Jude: ..You do! And now it’s really fun. Because last year or so there have been several books of the- you know, quote, “The spiritual awakening of scientists”, and more and more and more scientists are sort of sharing their experiences, and naturalizing them – normalizing them. And these are- these are courageous folks, Alex, because, you know, I was saved from being an academic scientists by the University, by making sure I took another route. But if I’d have been in an academic environment, I suspect it would have been very difficult. Fortunately for me, (a) I only sort of got the sense quite late on that I was ‘the weird one’. And by the way, the word ‘weird’ comes from Old English, and it means- it means ‘the way of wisdom’, So I think we should be proud to be weird. We should be grateful to be weird.

Alex: Yeah.. Agreed. One weird ear goes to another, my dear. (laughter)

Dr Jude: ..The way of the weird, you know, so- but now more and more folks are acknowledging this. And it’s very difficult, I think, if you’re educated, as our education systems are, with that paradigm – pretty much a materialism and separation. And you went through that, as I did, and then if you choose to perhaps train as a doctor, or as a scientist, or a teacher.. Yeah, unless you have some inner awakening within our own journey, you’re actually in that environment, and in that peer pressure, and those structures and those organizations where that world view is prevalent. Fortunately for me, and I’d like to hear your story, it still didn’t occur to me to share.. It wasn’t that I was afraid to, I just didn’t see the need to share my experiences. And then one day, and I would have been well into my late 30s, I suddenly got the sense, “Okay, I can start to share this.” ..And it wasn’t to try and impose it, or to prove me right and anybody else wrong, it was because I was getting cornered in parties. And I didn’t realize that there were people who really.. If I was able to share, just from that place of human to human, person to person, willingness to be open and vulnerable, then it may offer other people a source of comfort, willingness, openness, invitation to share their stories.

Because it seems to me, the more we do this, the more we will recognize that this is our natural way of being. You know this isn’t the weird — this IS the weird way. But it’s our natural – who we really are. So that’s really what happened, and I’ve been on that journey ever since.

Alex: As they say, the first one through the wall is when they get bloodied. And, uh, when you step out of line, you’re the one that is going to take the arrows, as they say, and- But if you’re able to survive that.. being these brave scientists who are coming out, it does give an example to so many others, that you’re like.. “Oh, if he or she did it, maybe I can start talking about it.” And I think the world is in a place now, in an awakened place, that it accepts these conversations so much more than it did before.

And I’d love to hear your thoughts on the anomaly that is ‘quantum physics’. It annoys the Newtonians so much! It annoys the materialists so much! And what is the connection between spirituality, between ancient texts, that science seems to be catching up to- what they’ve been talking about for 1000s of years. What is your feeling on that, how that is coming up? .. Our conversation is a spiritual, scientific, quantum physics conversation, as we continue to go. These conversations were unheard of 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

Dr Jude: Oh, yeah. Maybe the users/viewers are responding to that. If you go back to before the, you know, the early 20th Century, because up to that point, the world was Newtonian. But I have to say, giving Isaac Newton a break, he’s now often recognized as being the last of the alchemists, rather than just the first- just the first, or one of the first, of the natural philosophers or scientists. And he and others, I would say, especially Francis Bacon, who also gets a really bad rap sometimes, as the father of ‘the scientific method’. I think for both of them, they were very spiritual people. And I think for both of them, they were trying to move beyond the superstition of their era, and the authority of a Church that really was preventing any rational investigation of the deeper nature of reality. And them and Copernicus, Galileo, all the folks who were the pioneers of that time, were incredibly brave, because it wasn’t just that you might be sort of disparaged by your peers, you might get burned at the stake.

Alex: Absolutely!

Dr Jude: You know, this is serious stuff! (laughter)

Alex: Get the Galileo effect. ‘The Galileo Effect’ is literally a term.

Dr Jude: Absolutely! So- But the point is that the more, therefore, that exploration of the physical world continued, you know, the view of the Church authorities was, “Okay, you can investigate this, but you’re not investigating anything beyond this”. So the socialism gradually took place between science and spirituality. And that continued until by the 19th Century, we had an incredible mechanistic worldview, of materialism and separation. And that became, not just the scientific worldview, as we both know, it became the societal perspective, you know, with the Industrial Revolution, organizations, companies, corporations, governments, all of it – all of it, education, healthcare, were all based on this worldview.

And so, you know, by the 20th Century, when the quantum pioneers and Einstein were discovering what were phenomena that were incredibly anomalous to that mechanistic viewpoint.. that were really giving us clues to this deeper nature of reality. That was pushed to the side. And even Einstein was uncomfortable with quantum physics, as I’m sure you know, he called it, “Spooky action at a distance”, so we can come back to that. But the reality was, what they were unveiling- what they were revealing, was giving us clues that have literally lasted, and hung around philosophically for the last century. But now, we’re discovering more and more and more such anomalous phenomena of perspectives, that the old pre-quantum, pre-relativity, mechanistic worldview of separation, and materiality, just can’t hold any more; Because the evidence is so compelling, that it now, you know, those clues from 100 years ago are coming front and center. Because what they’re doing is, instead of them just being clues.. that mind and consciousness [is] a primary reality.

The evidence we’re seeing at all scales of existence, and numerous fields of research, is bringing that front and center into an unavoidable perspective. And that’s what I’d love us to explore. Because this is so exciting. Because there’s so much evidence for it, you know?

Alex: Well, it is. It’s the equivalent of, you know, the concept of the Earth is the center of the Universe, and and everything revolves around it, to the point where you’re like, “There’s just too much evidence now to state- That’s just not true, guys”.. ‘But that’s what God said.’ .. ”No, He never said that. You said that”… ‘No, never saw- I never saw a fax.’ (laughter)

Dr Jude: “there’s an email”… Absolutely. And you know, when people say this could be the second , you know, Copernican revolution. Or second or third – quantum and relativity, I think it’s even more transformational and groundbreaking, because, you know, when- when Copernicus undertook this, “No, no, no guys, the sun is the center”, and at that time it was the center of the world, because we didn’t know that there were vast, vast, vast spaces and time beyond our visible world, for most people, it really didn’t matter. They went on with their lives. When quantum physics and relativity physics came in, all those folks like you and I, who are I dare say, we’re weird, and we’re nerds, and we were so excited by. For most people, it was the world of the very small, or the world of the very large, it wasn’t their everyday lives.

This I think is different, because what this is showing is that mind and consciousness aren’t something we have, but literally what we in the whole world are. And this evidence that I’ve just, you know, am beginning to sort of share, isn’t just that those tiny quantum scales have a very large, you know, spatial, galactic, universal scale. It’s in our everyday lives. We find the same patterns underlying earthquakes, and underlying human conflicts. We’re seeing the way that galaxies grow is the same as the way cities grow. We’re seeing the way that ecosystems are informed, so is the internet. We’re seeing the same patterns that affect us every day of our lives, are the same patterns that are all-pervasive throughout the whole universe. And they matter, because it’s how we choose, it’s how we behave, it’s how we relate. So that’s why I think this is even more substantial, as it were.

Alex: Well, so you use the word consciousness. And that’s a kind of loaded word, because there’s so many definitions for consciousness. How do you define consciousness in this conversation?

Dr Jude: I try not to. (laughter)

Alex: Move on, next question.

Dr Jude: .. Nothing to see here (laughter).. For me, I define consciousness as self-aware.. sentience of self-awareness. And I talk about mind and consciousness, because most of the folks that have studied and paired the understanding of consciousness and mind for their whole lives, and very specialized within it, you know, and the ancient understanding talks about cosmic mind as being the ground of all being, which my experiences wholly correlate with and relate with. So for me, we are microcosmic co-creators, in a universe that is conscious, that is living, that exists and evolves as a non-locally unified entity. But it is a finite thought- a finite thought of the infinite and eternal mind of the cosmos. Whether one wants to describe that as- as God or Allah, or Great Spirit, Great Mystery, the Grand Source, or Source, or whatever it may be- that infinite and eternal.. but mind for wholeness, and the universe which is a great effulgence, a great thought, a great breath, a great, you know, conscious exploration. But on a finite scale of that.

Alex: But there’s also so many levels to consciousness, because there is our consciousness, animal consciousness, plant consciousness, the planets’ consciousness, the universality consciousness. I mean just the- our solar system and how it works – there is a consciousness around that, as well as our own planet ecosystem. We are in many ways, ants on the molehill of Earth. That we are the little creatures that are doing all sorts of things, just like there are little creatures in our backyard that are doing things, some doing good things, some doing not so good things. Some eating. Some weeds are popping up here and there. But was- is that a fair– do you think that’s fair to say?

Dr Jude: Oh, very very fair, you know, and this is where the evidence is pointing. This is the thing. And as you said earlier, the evidence is pointing to where the ancient wisdom, especially for me, that the Vedic tradition of ancient India. And the Vedic tradition was one that, you know, a number of the quantum physicists literally went out to India, because they were realizing that what they were seeing: ‘that the observer and the observed are not separate’. That there is potential, that there is an all pervasive intelligence, and that it’s arising from deeper levels, non-physical levels of causation. Those of them who are already aware of the Vedic tradition. … Yeah, were sharing the word, and they were going out and saying, “Look, we’re finding this, and the riches that the Vedic sages have sent… Yes.” (laughter).

Alex: We’ve known this for 1000s of years,

Dr Jude: 1000s of years, but it’s wonderful that now we have this convergence. But, yes.. and so, for me, that- you know, our entire universe exists and evolves as a living, sentient, conscious, not-locally unified entity, that from its first moment 13.8 billion years ago, began not in a big bang.. It wasn’t big, we know that, and it wasn’t a bang. It was incredibly fine tuned and ordered. It wasn’t just ordered and fine tuned in that moment. Ever since it’s instead of- it’s.. it’s been a big breath – this incredible out-breath. As space has expanded and times flowed forward to be able to explore, there is ever more complexity and self-awareness, and individuated self-awareness. So it is a journey of mind and consciousness. And for me, yes, we’re ants. My Aboriginal friends call us Mingo, and especially used to- it means ‘ants’; they used to call the folks who- the tourists who climbed what we call Ayers rock, or Uluru Vingo, and now it’s not allowed, but that’s what they call them. But we are microcosmic co-creators. Because everything in our universe – what we’ve been shown and seen, is that everything in existence has meaning, even the weeds in your garden and the ants that bite you, and, you know, whatever- everything in existence, has intrinsic meaning and evolutionary purpose. And that’s the incredible new understanding story that the evidence is pointing to, but the ancient traditions told us of, the indigenous wisdom keepers have told us of.

Alex: Yeah, and you were saying that the- before. The scientists were going over to India to study the Vedic since starting in a physicist. Or certainly they were doing that in- in the early 19th Century, or 18th Century.. Or excuse me, 20th Century. And yeah, and even Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer literally quoted, I think it was Shiva.

Dr Jude: That was ‘Bhagavad Gita’: “I am become Shiva, the destroyer of worlds”.

Alex: Yeah, because he, this- he, he was even seeing the connections between- between.. back then. But they weren’t popular. They weren’t put out popular, like they weren’t put out, like “Oh, well. Hey everybody, we figured this out.” … It was a very small sect of scientists. That.. and now it’s becoming more and more and more and more, growing. As more of the scientists I talked to on the show.. more quantum physicists, I talked to on the show, every one of them says, “Look, there’s- there’s the public face of a quantum physicist, and the private face in the parties, in the corners of the parties.” ..And they can’t publicly say things that they believe in, because it would be career suicide or academic suicide at the place that they happen to be. And then there’s those brave souls that decide to come out and go, “You know what, I don’t- I disagree… this is what the evidence is pointing to.” I mean, just the concept of ‘quantum entanglement’ is annoying to a materialist.

Dr Jude: It- but the reality of it is, you may be aware of this, the Nobel Prize for Physics in 2022 was given to three quantum researchers: John Clauser, Alain Aspect and Anton Zeilinger, and they’ve been studying the universal nonlocal – non-locality, ‘quantum non-locality’ for decades upon decades, experimentally. And the Nobel Prize for Physics is only given to settled science. If it’s controversial, the prize isn’t given. So for example, Einstein was awarded his Nobel Prize, not for relativity theory, because it was still seen as controversial, but for the photo-electric effect, whereby photons of light pinged out quanta from a metal. And that showed, in fact, the quantized nature of energy-matter, along with folks like Max Planck and others. So the fact that the Nobel Prize for Physics last year was given to the scientists studying universal non-locality, I think is a threshold moment for science. And the other thing is in 2018, an MIT- a group at MIT and other universities, which included Anton Zeilinger, had experimentally managed to- what’s called ‘entangle’. In other words, literally create as a single entity, as it were, photons of light in the laboratory with starlight from 600 light years away – from, photons of light from what’s called a quasar, which is a very active, very ancient galactic center, 12.2 billion light years away, showing the cosmological scale of quantum non-locality.

But you see this goes back to the very beginnings of quantum physics, because it was realized that for quantum mechanics to work at all, the entire universe had to be non-locally entangled. And that’s something called Bell’s Inequality, or Bell’s Theorem – Bell’s Inequality. So what that 2018 experiment was able to do was to show that the levels of entanglement exceeded Bell’s Inequality, and therefore showed that quantum non-locality was Cosmo- at cosmological scales. And although people don’t talk about it so much, that the APPEARANCE of our universe.. its ‘quantized energy-matter’, and its non-quantized space-time ..do emerge from deeper non-physical realms. Which is what quantum physics says they do. But everybody went, “la,la,la,la,..La,la,la,la,la,la,la,la.” (laughter).. “Let’s look at the technology instead.”

Alex: Look at my new iPhone, is’t this pretty? .. Well let me ask you- let me ask you the $10,000 question: What is the ‘Cosmic Hologram’? Are we living in a simulated reality? And is there any proof of that? ..From what I understand, there is, but I’d like to hear your point of view.

Dr Jude: (she laughs), Well first of all, I wouldn’t describe our reality a simulator, because I think one of the- one of the theory.. one speculation.. And it is only speculation going around the rounds, is that our universe is a simulation of essentially an advanced extraterrestrial culture, or sub-world that.. (interruption by Alex)

Alex: That’s one, yeah. There’s also the simulation- There’s also the simulation theory of.. That God or the universe, or something else created it.

Dr Jude: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think the danger of simulation is describing us as a sort of a computer game. And I think the danger of it, to be honest, is that it takes away what we’re discovering as a universe of meaning and purpose. Because you know, we’ve had the old materialist, scientific, sorry.. materialist-separative/ separation world view, which has a universe that is essentially dead, that has no inherent meaning or purpose. Or, evolution is sort of driven by random events – an essentially, accidental universe, okay? ..We’ve now got the evidence that, that really is- it’s turning up on its head. .. But the simulation suggests something similar. It sort of disempowers us from agency. It sort of disempowers us, or could be- could be construed to disempower us. So that’s why I don’t use the word. But what I would say is that, yes, the evidence is showing that essentially, the reality of our universe is holographically manifested. And the proof for that, and that the basis for that goes back some while now, I mean, many decades- a number of decades, to the earliest studies of black holes, and the thermo- what’s call ‘thermodynamics of black holes’.

And the question was: “What happens when you get a massive star, that at the end of its life runs out of its nuclear fuel, and therefore, gravitationally collapses?” And because it’s so massive, the gravitational collapse is so powerful, that it isn’t stopped. And the star as a sphere – it was a sphere as a star, so it collapses spherically. And it collapses beyond a point called ‘an event horizon’, where the gravity is so strong that not even light can escape, hence the term ‘black hole’. Then the question was, “Well, what happens to all the information of that star?” And to cut a long story short, it became understood that instead of the information being lost, it is retained on the event horizon.. But instead also of it being proportional to the volume of the star, or the black hole event horizon, in other words, the volume of that 3D sphere, it’s actually proportional to the two dimensional surface area of the event horizon.

Now to some bright folks, such as Leonard Susskind, Jacob Beckenstein, Gerrard’t Hooft, and- and t’Hooft and others, they realized that that was very similar to a hologram. Because in a hologram, light is shined off an object. Well, a light beam is basically split; part of the beam is shining off a 3D object, it could be an apple, it could be you, it could be anything you choose. And the light, when it comes back- is reflected back, is full of information about that object. When that then is combined with the other part of the beam, a two dimensional pattern of information is produced around about that 3D object. And then when another beam of light is shone through that patterning, a hologram is projected of the three dimensional appearance of that original object: That you can walk around. That you can now acoustically interact, with all sorts of incredible technologies. But when those folks expanded what they were discovering about the information on black holes, and expanded it to the whole universe, they realized that our entire universe could be a holographic projection of information, projected as the ‘Appearance’ – the three dimensional appearance, or the four dimensional appearance of space time (the three dimensional space and the one dimension of time).

Now since that time, virtually every theoretical framework, that has pushed forward string theory, or push forward– you know, try to quantize gravity, or just try to make sense of stuff, has come to a very similar conclusion: that we can actually better explain the appearance of our universe as a holographic projection, and one of meaningful (in form) in-formation. So I sometimes joke that quantum physics is so 20th Century, because we’re not realizing that the appearance of our universe – it’s quantized space, quantized energy-matter – and I’ll use a different word here: it’s entropic space-time.. It both arises from deeper levels of ‘In’.. for intelligent meaningful, mindful center causation – as information expressed as quantized energy-matter in a complementary way, as entropic space-time. And when you bring those together, which I’ve done in my last couple of books, you get a framework where, you know, very straightforwardly, you expand the three laws of thermodynamics to loads of information. And suddenly, like a Rubik’s Cube, everything just pulls together, and you can understand how our universe exists and evolves in this way.

Alex: First of all, this is heresy. You shall be burned at the stake (she laughs), any day now.

Dr Jude: My face, it– My face is getting very warm as we speak.

Alex: (laughter).. I mean, you’re basically throwing so much.. I mean, I love that explanation, by the way. That’s why it’s such a beautiful, elegant explanation of- of what the hologram, the cosmic hologram that we’re living in [is]. Because from.. and please correct me, I’ve heard now that they’re discovering that even in the center of every galaxy, there is a black hole, which then… So in the middle of the Milky Way somewhere, there’s a black hole that has created this.. Now arguably, theoretically, based on what you’ve just said that- that could be: ‘the reflection of that black hole is creating the reflection of this galaxy.’ Is that a possibility?

Dr Jude: It’s certainly an intriguing perspective of it, because, you know, we are- we are now speaking of a universe that exists and evolves as a living sentient, conscious, non-locally unified entity, from its very beginnings. Tiny, tiny, fine, to beginning 13.8 billion years ago. And we’re also now realizing that those– what’s called ‘supermassive black holes’, as you refer to the middle of our Milky Way, look to be at the center of all, if not many many, but possibly all galaxies, as they evolved from those- those early epochs. And our supermassive black hole is not that big. I mean, it’s 3 million sizes of our sol. But one that has just been discovered, I think that’s 30 billion stars, suns, in the scale of it. I mean, they’re absolutely vast. And we’re very fortunate, because ours is quite quiescent. Some are very active, but ours is quite quiescent. But essentially, they are the– you know, in essence, they are aspects of the memory of our world, of our universe moving forward. But don’t forget, when I talk about the cosmic hologram, I’m talking about our entire universe, the boundary of what we call space-time, as a two dimensional boundary: one of space, one of time.

The reason space expands and time flows is that without that, it couldn’t exist, it couldn’t evolve, because every- every moment.. what’s called the ‘Planck Scale Moment’, at every Planck Scale of that boundary, which is minute, further information- further, if you like, universal information can then be holographically projected. And that enables us to have this conversation 13.8 billion years after that first moment, when our universe was as simple as it could be – but no simpler. Rather like a baby universe to begin this incredible evolutionary journey. But space expanding is.. Every moment there is more of that holographic boundary, you know, the Indian tradition has the akashic Record, ..is that story.

Alex: Yeah.

Dr Jude: Yeah?

Alex: Well, let me ask you this then.. I’ll be devil’s advocate here, ‘If we are a hologram, and we’re living in a holographic environment, how are we physical?’ Because when I’ve seen a hologram, you could push right through it. It’s not a physical thing. So of what consists this material, materialism, that we are in, this physical aspect to it.

Dr Jude: Well, first of all, when we drill down, and we’ve known this as long as the constant, you know, understanding, you get to 99.999999999999% – no thinness. And what’s remaining is relationships and informational relationships.

Alex; Okay.

Dr Jude: You know, when I was at school, I was taught ‘atoms were little billiard balls.’ They’re not. They are vibrational, informational relationships. But the other- the other sense of that: So- so our universe is innately relational, but it’s not solid. The reason we we’re not great loops, the reason we don’t sink through the floor, are aspects of quantum mechanics, which is the ‘Pauli Exclusion Principle’ primarily, which means that for the particular types of entities that make us up – those waveforms that we call, you know, quarks and electrons, they can’t occupy the same quantum state at the same time. Yeah?.. So all of the- the makeup of our bodies can’t occupy the same quantum state. So we don’t just merge into each other. Whereas light, which is a different type of phenomenon can do, which is why holograms can hold so much information. But the other- the other force that’s coming into this appearance of separation is electromagnetism.

So we have electrostatic.. It was called ‘electrostatic repulsions’, because the outer orbits of- of electrons in atoms are negatively charged, and “like-and-like repel”. So we have the ‘power exclusion principle’ and the, you know, the phenomenon of electromagnetism, that, you know, makes our appearance as solid, even though we’re not.

Alex: Well, um.. as I said that- asked that question, I’m saying it more for people looking. But the second you said, “Well”, you know, I’m like, “Yeah I forgot about that.” We are pure energy, and there is no space, if you drill down deep enough. So we’re basically just.. It seems almost like we’re code. There’s a programming code behind all of this – in this.. Not literally, I’m saying, but as an analogy. There is the code of our bodies, what.. and then the DnA, and then if you want to start getting into a little bit more metaphysical aspects of ‘KARMA’, and all these other aspects: generational Karma, you know, why is there a mole in you back? Why can’t you do this? What’s causing that, there’s no reason?.. These- all this kind of old– it’s all information. It seems like it’s constant information moving in and out all the time.

Dr Jude: It really is. And I’ve been accused of being obsessed with “hyphens” – in life-information, to really differentiate between some meaningless gobbledygook and the meaningful ‘in-formation’. which is the basic stuff of our universe, of the whole world. And as you say, Alex, you know what, this cosmic hologram model, and what I continue to write about in ‘The Story of Gaia, II’, which is the evolutionary story of what that means, is a meaningful ‘in-formed’ universe, which is also multi dimensional. So it has levels of intelligence – archetypal intelligence, in both incarnate and discarnate forms, So it’s a much grander, most wondrous, exciting, you know, story, and a new and unitive narrative, where, you know, everything in existence has meaning, an evolutionary purpose, which means we do too.

Alex: Yeah, without question. I love what you’re saying in regards to the multi- multidimensional (multidimensional), because this is one dimension, then the, you know.. I’ve spoken to so many ‘near death’ experiencers, and they have- they visited another dimension of some sort- out of body experiences. There’s ‘channels’: other people talking, and then if you go into the Vedic texts, they talk about.. I think its 49 levels of different consciousnesses that you can grow into: Ascended Masters.. go to, so you know, and you constantly are evolving. There’s so much into it. But now that the scientists like yourself are starting to quantify it for us in a different way, where it’s not woo-woo anymore, we’re getting farther and farther away from woo-woo. And getting more- closer and closer to reality, and proof and evidence. But I have to ask you a question. This is a question of- because you’ve mentioned it a few times in our conversation: ‘Time’. Now my perspective on time: Is it a manmade object, and our time is based around the rotations around our sun. If you leave our solar system, time does not exist in the way, ‘it’s not going to be 12 o’clock somewhere, it’s not going to be 1 o’clock somewhere.’ What is your definition of time in the scope of universal time versus our little, our little 12 o’clock, one o’clock thing that we got going on here?

Dr Jude: Well, before I do that, before I forget, I love- I love to say, “We’re moving from woo-woo to we we” Isn’t that..

Alex: (laughter) AAAH, great!! That’s wonderful. I love that.

Dr Jude: This is who we really are. Yes, I think this is a really common misunderstanding if…. Please to honour that perspective, because when Einstein realized that ‘space’ was relative to the position of an observer, and ‘time’ was relative to the position of an observer, I think that wasn’t his greatest genius. He continued to follow the evidence. And what he followed it to, was that ‘yes’, space is relative, ‘yes’, time is relative of themselves, but we have to bring them together as invariant- what was called ‘invariant space-time’. So what he understood is when we describe an event, we can’t just say three dimensions of space, yeah?.. We have to say, three dimensions of space and one of time. And when we bring that four dimensionality into a measurement, it doesn’t matter whether we’re making that measurement here on Earth, a galaxy far far away and a long long time ago, or wherever. And that invariance of space-time is that we can, as cosmologists, talk about a universe that began 13.8 billion years ago, as that first tiny tiny moment of an ongoing out-breath, and ongoing big breath, as I describe it.

And the way that this works is that as space expands, you know, in a Planck Scale area (this is minute), this is named after Max Planck, who’s one of the great pioneers. But at every Planck Scale, time which is also minute, more and more and more and more information is able to be holographically manifested within space-time. So we do have universal time. Otherwise we couldn’t, you know- The laws of Physics wouldn’t work, nothing would hang together. And- but we also have this personal perspective of time. You know, Einstein once said, and it was only he who could say this and get away with it probably.. That ”if you sit on a hot cooker, a minute feels like an hour, but if you’re sitting with a beautiful young girl, an hour feels like a minute.” Now, that’s a personal sense of time. But I’m talking here about the both. And yes, and you know, our perspective of time- so much of our biology is based on our position, on our planetary home going round our sun. But I’m going way beyond this and saying, “It’s a both-and” – that is, as cosmologists, as humans, we can also understand that our entire universe is undertaking a journey of space-time, where there is a universal time and its one way flow. And it goes from the past to the present, and at each moment where the bow wave of that ‘here-and-now’, with the future still to unfold.

Alex: If you’re interested, if you watched that movie, ‘Interstellar’, Chris Nolan.. (interjection)

Dr Jude: DON’T get me started on that movie!!

Alex: Is that a bad movie or a good movie? Tell me..

Dr Jude: I love the movie. I deplore the signs, because it’s (laughter)

Alex: Okay, Okay! Fair enough, fair enough, got the concept of what he- what they said in regards to when they go- when they were in the spaceship there, let’s say a 24 hour period. But if you go down to the planet, every minute that goes by is a year, every five minutes goes by, it’s a year, and then when they got back, you know, fifteen minutes later, the guy is 75 years old, or something like that. … Yeah, I’m fascinated now with this cosmic time- universal time as you call this time, because it is- I agree with you 100%. There has to be some- we are in a- you know.. If I leave this planet and travel a million light years from now, my body will still break down, based on whatever measurement of time I’m used to, it could be five seconds. Or- or look at the measurement of time in dogs and cats, you know, ‘dog years’ versus ours. It’s a different perspective and a different solution. A different conscious- conscious perspective of where we’re at. So My year is seven years of my cat, or let’s say dog, because it’s called ‘dog years’, they estimate.

So they’re experiencing time, completely different than we are, just like an ant, or a gnat that lives for, you know, what.. 24 hours? Completely, it’s a different perspective than us. So there is a form of time. I think that we get caught up in the whole revolving around the sun time, which is like 1 o’clock, 2 o’clock, is the master time clock. But there is a universal kind of clock that’s different, which is how you can say 4 billion years ago that the planet..

Dr Jude: Absolutely, and yeah, but it’s not an either or, it’s both. So as you say, your dog’s experience- his or her life in the way he or she is experiencing that life, and the timing of that life, as will be a mayfly, as is you and I. And the whole universe is experiencing. Now, the universal time is measured in- in what we call Planck Seconds. But the point of the Planck Scale, it really is- it shows us this deeper understanding of our universe’s reality, because there are four constants in the universe that we could measure in whatever measures we want to.. But they’re: the speed of light, the gravitational constant, Planck’s constant, and what’s called Boltzmann’s constant, which is around thermodynamics. When you bring them together, they shake out into five measures of.. ‘energy’, and ‘matter’, and ‘space’, and ‘time’, and ‘temperature’.

Now these measures can actually do what scientists call, “normalize”. In other words, the Planck distance can be identified as the distance that light- (that constant light) travels in one Planck time. So it can all come down to the number one, which means that whether you and I were measuring them in our measures, or some being, some, you know, being – extraterrestrial being far into the future or far into the past, measuring them; they would tell them, as they’re telling us:- foundational understanding about the nature of reality of our universe. And that’s why we can talk about universal space-time, and universal energy-matter in the way we can. And it all hangs together as ‘a non-locally unified entity’, where time can be measured from that point, 13.8 billion years ago, and with every Planck Scale time, you know, as a space also expands and time flows, to tell this story of our universe. And yet, we can also, and it is a both-and, experience the passing of time in our own self-aware consciousness.

Alex: We’ve all done that..

Dr Jude:Yeah, absolutely,

Alex: We’ve all- we’ve all.. were engrossed in a book, watching a movie, having a conversation, you know, an athletic situation where you’re in the flow, as they say- that time stands still. All of that stuff.

Dr Jude: All of that. And also, once we move beyond this, this- this cosmic hologram in these dimensions of space-time, so, you know, our universe both knows itself in its wholeness, because of its non-local universality, and within space-time. The speed of light is the cosmic speed cop, which enables that causality – that universal causality, to play out over all of these 13.8 billion years and ongoing. So again, it’s this both-and, but when we move into discarnate, multi-dimensional levels of existence and awareness, I’m sure you’ve had so many conversations, and I’ve had many many experiences, that the sense of time is very different.

Alex: Oh, absolutely. Time has flown as you and I have been speaking, uh, uh, I don’t even- you know, it’s when you’re engrossed in something, your consciousness- you attention is on something so intently, ‘time stands still’ or flies by in a way, just like Einstein said, ‘when you’re with your loved one a minute, you know, an hour feels like a minute, but if you’re sitting at the DMV trying to get your- your license renewed, an hour– a minute seems like an hour.’ … (laughter) No question whatsoever. It is- it is fascinating, and I’ve heard now, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that because you- ..in the speed of light, that the expansion of the universe is going faster. Is that true, or not.. heard that?

Dr Jude: No, it’s not. But what you probably heard, it as- was a very very early epoch of the universe that’s hypothesized- it’s not yet proven, and called, ‘The Inflationary Period’.

Alex: Right.

Dr Jude: Now the inflationary period was- was really an hypothesis put forward to get over the- the sort of the, the homogeneity of our universe. And the ‘horizon’, what’s called the horizon problem, in our universe. But when we move into this perspective of a cosmic hologram, where the whole universe is non-locally unified, that view and that framework does not need an inflationary epoch. And the inflationary part was perceived to be where- where space- the whole space expanded faster than the speed of light, So I’ve, you know, I’m happy to follow wherever the evidence leads, but the evidence is not yet in that there was indeed an inflationary epoch, even though that’s often, you know, seen as a fact, it really isn’t. We haven’t got the proof of that yet. And it brings its own problems with it, because nobody knows how it would start, if it started. And no body knows how it would stop. (smile)

Alex: ..If it’s ever going to stop, right?

Dr Jude: Well the idea is that there’s lots of buddings off of universes. And there’s a wonderful rule-of-thumb in science called, ‘Occam’s Razor’, which is  basically, ”go with the simplest it can be, but no simpler”, which is an Einstein quote as well, And this really violates, in that sense, ‘Occam’s Razor’. And I don’t think it’s necessary. So we’ll see, we’ll see.

Alex: Well, let me ask you this, because, again, I’ve heard this concept that ‘the universe is infinite’. And if it’s not infinite, what the hell is on the edge? (laughter)

Dr Jude: Okay, let’s do that. Let’s do that… Um, there’s nothing in space-time, nothing that is infinite. Every measure within space-time of our universe is finite. Our universe began a finite time ago, not an infinite time ago- FINITE time ago. We also know, looking- from looking at analysis of hydrogen, that about 9 billion years ago, our universe had a huge sort of push of stellar formation, which uses hydrogen. And that has progressively fallen off. So our universe has very very little hydrogen left to make more stars. But the biggest one– the other thing is that, from the very early epoch of our universe, when it became transparent to light and atoms could form, it basically, it began to- there was a radiance throughout our.. throughout space.

A space has expanded ever since. That radiance has moved into the micro- it has been stretched into microwave wavelengths, and it’s now called ‘The Cosmic Microwave Background’. When that was analyzed, tiny little temperature differences that were analyzed only a few years ago, and first of all, they were found to embed the patterns that I was referring to earlier.. These- these patterns that are all scales of existence and across numerous fields of research, we call them, ‘fractals’. But those temperature differences were seen to be fractals, but also they were only finite wavelengths, they fill all of space. So there’s nothing in space, and nothing in the cosmic microwave background, that is not FINITE, okay?

We also now know from this framing of a cosmic hologram, that it is itself finite – it’s a holographic boundary. That is, a boundary of- of a conscious, but finite, universe. And the final piece of sort of, if you like, potential evidence, is that our universe began in its- in its hottest state (its Planck Scale temperature) and its lowest informational content, or what I call entropy. And ever since, as space has expanded and time flowed, the temperature dropped and the entropy increased. Now, we’re now at a temperature of only 2.7 degrees above absolute zero, whereas it started at a temperature of 10 to the 32 [10^32] degrees Kelvin.. trillions and trillions of times hotter than the center of our sun. So we’re right down at the sort of- the final, you know, push, as it were, where the entropy – the informational content, is still expanding, but the temperature will fall. And it can’t fall below Absolute Zero. So that again suggests a finite ending.

Now what’s then beyond it? Infinity? (laughter).. It’s where we get back to the Vedic sages..

Alex: Well, in the kitchen. The science can go so far,

Dr Jude: Yes.

Alex: ..until we finally.. Until you find that you’ve run into a wall, meaning like, “Okay, so the big breath? Got it. The big bang if you want to call it that? Fine.. whatever. …What was there prior? Where does it come from? How did it..” And this is where you, you know, have to kind of go into the spiritual- have to kind of dig into the Vedic and into these ancient ideas that are far beyond what we can comprehend yet. And we’re still trying to figure out things that they’ve been saying for 1000s of years. And they’re discovering new things in archaeology- and all the di- the sun, and get into ancient civilizations, because that could be a whole other lovely conversation. A whole other subject. But it is fascinating that we are- I mean, finally.. That was a beautiful explanation, by the way. I’ve learned immense, immense amount of stuff in this conversation. But let me ask you something, because I’ve heard this term thrown around.. I’d love to hear what you think of it. What is ‘Sacred Geometry’, and how does that affect, you know, the role of how it’s just- the universe is structured?

Dr Jude: Well, there is a- there is a teaching – there’s a curriculum of teaching called the Quad rivet– ‘Quadrivium’. And that means fourfold. And it comes back to this ancient Universal Wisdom Teaching perspective, that everything in what we call ‘reality’ is essentially number. With a Cosmic Hologram and the understanding that, you know, we’ve just touched on today. That number- those numbers, those basic numbers are (ones and zeros) of digitized information, with me being obsessed by the hyphen – “meaningful information”. And they are the pixelation of our universal reality at the Planck Scale. And they then accumulate to form literally- to form the appearance of quantized energy-matter, and in entropic space-time. But from those zeros and ones, we can express numbers- we can express numbers for example for the Fibonacci Series of 0,1, 1,2,3,4, and we find the Fibonacci series and many many other numerical relationships form the patterning of all scales of existence.

But the Quadrivium founded on this cosmology, of, uh, idealized numbers, talk of music as being ‘number in time’, and geometry as being ‘number in space’. So we talk about, ‘Sacred Geometry’, it’s just a recognition of the sacredness of Creation, and this beautiful, you know, spiritually based, ‘universal consciousness’ basis of all that we call our reality. So there is such an.. The ancient Greek geometers, who only had a sort of straight edge, and something to run with, and mark with, realized that, you know, we had five types of three dimensional appearances of perfect solids, called the ‘Platonic Solids’: tetrahedron, the cube, etc. And in two dimensions, a tetrahedron is a triangle.

Now what we realize now, is that instead of the idealized shapes, where, you know- Triangles, same level, same relationships, you can scale it up/ scale it down, same relationships, we now discover through analysis of vast amounts of data, the so-called fractal- the so-named fractal patterns. which they’re- they’re, they’re what’s called– They’re asymptote. Their convergence becomes those idealized shapes. But clouds are fractal, river systems are fractal, the solar wind is fractal, atoms cluster their electrons fractally when they change from insulators to metals. These are not the idealized but they are relational. They are innately relational, and they also scale up and scale down. So these are the patterns of reality. So ALL IS SACRED GEOMETRY.

Alex: That’s beautiful, beautifully stated- beautifully stated. And speaking of the shape of a triangle and math, I’d love to hear your point of view on the pyramid, the Great Pyramid and the math that’s embedded in it. It is so profound.

Dr Jude: Yes, yes.

Alex: It is a message of- of I think it’s.. I forgot what the exact mathematical– mathematical equation is, but if you multiply it by ‘x‘ number, you get the circumference of the Earth. And then if you do another one, the height of it is the height of the Earth. It’s like, it was like almost the ancients were leaving this information behind in the only way they knew that was not going to be erased, and not taken out. Where do you think this- this detailed information came from, because as you say– (I love ancient civilization and love ancient history.. Love it. I love all this, that’s another conversation we could have at another time, because I would love to get into it with you about that, as well.) But it seems that the pyramids, which should have gotten better in time– degraded. They went straight down hill, and it was like that was the peak; the Sphinx was the peak of- of whatever was there at that time, the people and so on. And the technology kept getting worse and worse and worse. What are your thoughts behind: who created it.. what created it, and how in God’s green earth could they have inserted such precise mathematical equations in the geometry of a pyramid at a time when quote unquote.. “we were supposed to be, you know, just, you know, running around in the sand, you know, praying for Ra, like.. (laughter)

Dr Jude: Absolutely. It is another conversation, because it is so vast, but many years ago, clairaudiently I was given that we would come to a time, and I do feel it’s now, when we would literally remember who we really are, and we would re-member our terrestrial, our intra-terrestrial and our extraterrestrial heritage. And it seems to me that we’re on the threshold of so much of this now. And it’s a remembering that.. or is inviting us to open our hearts and our minds to these incredible possibilities and understanding. Not so that we open our mind and, you know, our brains drop out, you know. It really is, but the evidence has been discovered now, in so many ways, and, you know, we’re in a situation where, for the first time we have NASA investigating UFOs, UAPs [unidentified aerospace (or aerial) phenomena]. We have, you know, we have Congress, we have so much, we have pilots – 100 now, I think, more pilots have just signed a new letter saying disclosure. We’re on the threshold, I think, of what I was given many years ago. This will be a time of remembering.

So those ancient mysteries, those incredible abilities, I think, are now, you know, being rediscovered and reevaluated, and reopened up. And we’ll have a much more profound perspective of this. And the other thing that I’m really excited about is: what this is showing us, and what the evidence is showing us is, it’s naturalizing multidimensional communications. So, you know, synchronicities, super-normal phenomena, not supernatural, not paranormal.. ‘super-normal’. These are our naturalized, you know, heritage as microcosmic co-creators of this wonderful, marvelous universe. So I think we’re in an incredible moment, and it’s a crucial moment of choice. Because our worldview of materialism-separation has brought us to this edge of an abyss. And unlike, you know, I know a lot of folks, and it really is an incredibly challenging moment.

But just- just sense, and I know you do, and I hope our, our listeners do. Just sense the invitation of our universe, to grow up to become its co-evolutionary partner of consciousness.. to re-member that we’re not just human beings. You know, our planetary home, Gaia, is sentient with guidance. If we can do that, we have the evidence now to support us. That as my dear friend, Joni Carley says, “You know, Unity isn’t an aspiration. It’s our existential reality.” ..My other dear friend, Julie Craul, says, “Unity isn’t ideal. It’s real.” So what do we wake up to be where the unity is expressed in radical diversity, where we have meaning and purpose, and uniquely so.

Alex: Is it- is it.. That’s so beautiful when you say that it’s- I think we’re getting better at it, but I think there’s so much of this dogmatic programming that we have been forced throughout our existence, that if it skews away from the programming that we’ve has since- (and I use the word programming strategically), because we, as we’re born, the programming around us, the people, our parents, beliefs, and all this kind of stuff. If anything differs from our foundational programming of what the world is – reality is, God, the universe, our religion, what a position of a woman is, and of a man is in society.. in all of these things, when that is challenged, that’s when wars happen. That’s when action happens. That’s when you fight to defend it.

I do see an opening of those ideas, especially in the newer generation. the older generation is just ground in. I fully- I believe my generation is kind of a bridge generation, because we have one foot in the old and we have one foot in the new. I was- I knew what it was like before the internet, I knew when it was born, and knew how it is afterwards. Whereas my children were born in a place where they just don’t understand a time where you couldn’t have every bit of information at your fingertips, whenever you want it. So it- it is interesting to see how we’re going to move forward as a- as a species.

Dr Jude: I agree. And you know, for me, it’s really interesting. This year, 2023, is the 400th anniversary of a book called, ‘De Augmentis Scientiarum’ by Francis Bacon. And I mentioned earlier, you know, he’s often given a bad rap as sort of leading us into this materialist perspective. But reading his work, and knowing some of the scholars that have studied his work for a very long time, I would suggest a different perspective, that he realized, as I mentioned, that his world was steeped in superstition, and it was no longer healthy. And it was not healthy, and so the scientific method was a method of being able to follow where the evidence led. And for him, my perspective, is that he hoped it would reveal the Divine. It wouldn’t get rid of the Divine, it would reveal it and bring it into a greater understanding of the nature of reality. And there’s a very esoteric pulse around 400 years ago, and this year is the 400th year anniversary. So I’m sort of sitting and waiting and drinking my tea.

And.. (laughter). this is the– but just to perhaps finish with your point, because I’m part of a group of- of thought, thought folks around the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and their realization, that with a siloed thinking of the world view, that you know, you’ve been describing, that those sustainable development goals cannot be implemented, because they- they are not intricate- they don’t recognize the full interconnectedness of all that they’re seeking to try and achieve. And so last year, I worked with a group of folks who came up with what we call, ‘a unitive narrative’, which is the new- a new narrative of unity and diversity based on the evidence. But just before the end of last year, the United Nations for the first time in its 77 year history, formally adopted a grouping of NGOs and other organizations, what’s called ‘a thematic cluster’ based on unity. A unity of thematic cluster, whose aim is to bring all of this understanding into implementations and interventions, and capacity building and education and governance, and all the other.

And so a lot of my work, and many many others now, are really – your hoping to share and invite. It’s not an imposition, Alex, and it’s not a threat, because all ways are all paths up the same mountain in this- this understanding. So it’s an invitation of join the party, and- and honour every path and all paths.

Alex: That’s beautiful, Dr Jude. I can talk to you for another three or four hours without question. I’m going to ask you a few questions I ask all my guests:

How, what is your definition of living a fulfilled life?

Dr Jude: For me, it’s a life of- it’s a life of experiencing that I am, I belong. I belong to the whole world, that there is no separation, for me. So it’s a life of love. It’s a life of joy. It’s a life of gratitude. It’s a life of curiosity. It’s a life of meaning, whatever that meaning is, for me. It’s a life of purpose, whatever that purpose is for me. And it’s also a life where I feel at my happiest, most joyful when I serve the good of the whole.

Alex: How do you define God?

Dr Jude: God is everything.

Alex: ..It’s as simple as that. If you had an opportunity to go back to your younger self, and give your younger self – that little girl, a piece of advice, what would it be?

Dr Jude: GET OVER YOURSELF!

Alex: (he laughs).. Very true, especially if it’s a teenage version of you (they both laugh), and last question:

What is the ultimate purpose of life?

Dr Jude: To love and to know that we’re- we’re to love and to know that we are loved – that we are microcosmic co-creators.. meaningful, purposeful in a loving universe.

Alex: And where can people find out more about you and pick up your book, ‘The Story of Gaia’, and all the other work you are doing?

Dr Jude: The website is www.wholeworld-view.org, which is an ‘organism’, a social organization. It’s an organism that I co-founded in 2017, when the cosmic hologram was launched. And It’s saying, “OUR aim is to serve the understanding, experiencing and embodying of unitive awareness.” So that has loads of resources.

Alex: Fantastic! And do you have any parting words for our audience?

Dr Jude: Somebody once asked me, “What would be my guidance to myself?” And my guidance to myself, if I ever have a quandary in life is to choose love. Just to choose ‘love’.

Alex: As Wayne Dyer- as Wayne Dyer said so beautifully: “When you have the chance to be right, or the- or the chance to be- to either to love or to be right, always choose love.” ..Or be kind.. ‘to be kind or to be right’, choose being kind.

Dr Jude: Always be kind. always choose love.

Alex: My dear, it has been a pleasure and honour speaking to you. I have to have you back. Yours is wonderful conversation. So thank you so much for not only this conversation, [but also] before.. [what] you do in the world to try to awaken us all to the truth of where we are at, my dear. Thank you so much!

Dr Jude: Bless you Alex, it has been an absolute joy. Thank you so much. And back atcha! (they both laugh).

links-

The Universe isn’t real, We live in a Cosmic Hologram
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAPbrHQqofs

Mary’s Messages
/spirit/2020/05/marys-messages-to-help-us-during-tribulation-period-2517355.html