Is The Apostle John Still Alive?
Don’t you just love these whacky questions? Where do I find ‘em you might justifiably ask? Well I find ‘em on my travels across the web where I discover many strange people with even more strange ideas which, amazingly, they obtain straight out of The King James Bible. Is this hard to believe? You would think so but no, these people, they get hold of an idea and they run and run with it until they’re blue in the face. Steam then starts to appear from their ears when one challenges them or even has the temerity to query how they came to their weird conclusion i.e. that the Messenger (apostle) John is still alive with us today in the year 2013 after the passing of nearly 2,000 years. How wrinkly would he be I wonder? WOW!
Now this topic does raise an interesting point and that point is this: could Yashua Anointed have kept John alive for 2,000 years? Yes I believe He could had He wanted to, but as with all these things we have to ask the question WHY? Why would He have wanted to? And is there anything in the way of proof and evidence within The Holy Scriptures that could truthfully and realistically support such an idea? Is there a verse that even hints at this miraculous notion? Well on first reading there is a Holy Scripture that could, with a great stretch of the imagination, be interpreted this way so let’s copy it here:
Matt 16:28 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Now here in this last verse of Matthew 16 we have Yashua Anointed speaking to His learners (disciples) shortly after Peter had boldly declared that Yashua Anointed was the Messiah (God in the flesh) sent by The Father to redeem (save) all sinful mankind. So this was a very poignant moment in their lives, but what was Yashua Anointed really saying here? I ask this, because this verse is the one which these ‘John is still alive’ people base their ideas.
OK, they do accept correctly that all the other Messengers (apostles) laid down their lives and died for Yashua Anointed and that John was the only Messenger that didn’t lay down his life in the same way in that he lived out his full life, so we all agree on that. The thing is, these people take it a huge step further by interpreting Matthew 16:28 to mean that John would literally not see death at all until he saw Yashua Anointed return to this earth to set up His Kingdom. In other words they believe that John is still with us today awaiting Yashua Anointed’s return. Where he is I have no idea, but they are sure that he IS here and is still alive. Amazing eh?
For me though it all sounds beyond far fetched, even if the above Holy Scripture was correctly translated, which it isn’t, so lets take a look at the Greek MSS to see if that can throw any light on the matter:
Matthew 16:28 Amen I-am-saying to-you are any of-the-ones here having-stood who-any not no should-be-tasting of-death till ever they-may-be-perceiving the son of-the man coming in the Kingdom of-Him?
No doubt I don’t have to explain this out for you, for as we can plainly see the Greek MSS has this verse as a question that Yashua Anointed is asking his learners and not an erroneous statement of fact as the translators of the KJV would like us to believe. Yashua Anointed is asking them if they think there are any among them who will not taste death before His coming in glory and were there any? Of course not, they are all dead in their graves awaiting the resurrection as are all the saints who have died through the centuries still believing.
So what were the translators up to? Easy, immortality of the soul stuff and nonsense along with knowing that some silly people would even interpret this verse as meaning that John would live a physical life until Yashua Anointed’s return – confusion. Unbelievable? You betcha, but there’s nowt so queer as folk, and they’ll believe anything, so be warned and be prepared to give an answer when they start spouting nonsense.
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Is Matthew 16:28 what all of this idea is based on? Were it so, as you say it is, then the believers who hold to the idea that John is still alive would have little upon which to base their ideas. But Crosby, you have conspicuously overlooked ALL of the following verses:
John 21:21
Peter seeing him sayeth to Yehoshua, Adonai, and what of this man?
22. Yehoshua sayeth unto him: If I will till he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou Me.
23. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: Yet Yehoshua said not unto him, “he shall not die”; but, “if I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?”
24. This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: And we know that his testimony is true.
These are significantly more specific verses upon which to base the belief that John has not yet seen death than solely Matthew 16:28 taken in isolation. Then there is the following verse from Revelation:
The angel to John…
Revelation 10:11
And he said unto me: Thou must prophecy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
Once again – all of these verses, taken in conjunction with Matthew 16:28, lend considerably more weight to an argument which you seem ready to dismiss out-of-hand. Considering all of the above, there is ample evidence to at least CONSIDER the possibility that the Apostle John remains (somewhere – Scripture does not say where) and has yet to experience physical death. We are provided a clarifying hint in verse 23, wherein is written: “Yet Yehoshua said not unto him, “he shall not die”…” This could very easily be taken to mean that John’s physical death will be significantly postponed, but it will still eventually arrive.
One possibility which should be considered is that the Apostle John is one of the two witnesses.
If John is one of the two witnesses where’s he been hiding? LOL
The two witnesses die before Yashua Anointed returns and are resurrected so John could not be one of them.
Beef you really must make up your mind to either believe in The Truth or in fairy stories or, worse, turning The Word of God into fairy stories via your reading things into it and thereby nullifying it.
Yashua Anointed was asking Peter a purely rhetorical question. He also knew that the learners were hoping for His return within THEIR LIFE TIMES.
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me: Thou must prophecy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
Yes, through the Book of Revelation – Revelation was/is a book of prophecy and has gone out across the earth to all tongues and peoples, including kings.
“If John is one of the two witnesses where’s he been hiding?”
Crosby, I can imagine there are places he could be kept out of sight — if not out of time — until the return of Messiah. Why do you insist on knowing all there is to know? Why can’t you just accept the fact that there are possibilities that exist which you have not considered? You place far too much trust in your own limited capacity for comprehension and imagination.
“Beef you really must make up your mind to either believe in The Truth or in fairy stories or, worse, turning The Word of God into fairy stories via your reading things into it and thereby nullifying it.”
Crosby, once again we find ourselves in a situation where you are telling me that the Scriptures DO NOT MEAN what they plainly state. And as if that were not enough, you proceed (as is your habit) to explain to me that I am running far afoul of the genuine message simply because I am suggesting that we should adhere to what is written. Has it not occurred to you that you are constantly arguing against what is written? Why do you do this? Why not simply accept what is written?
“Yes, through the Book of Revelation – Revelation was/is a book of prophecy and has gone out across the earth to all tongues and peoples, including kings.”
That’s ONE interpretation Crosby. I suggest to you that there are others. I suggest to you that if we take the words of Scripture to mean what they plainly state, that there MUST be others.
“Crosby, I can imagine there are places he could be kept out of sight — if not out of time — until the return of Messiah.”
You are claiming this, so it’s pure make believe on YOUR PART – conjecture, conjecture conjecture. And I now see that you are not addressing your erroneous claim that he is one of the Two Witnesses.
“Why do you insist on knowing all there is to know?”
Nowhere have I ever said that, but what I know, I know and even if I am wrong, I am still right for He has made me right, and it looks as if you have not read the story of Abraham and Abimelech, as I advised, for you to gain understanding of where we stand IF we are Born of God.
“Why can’t you just accept the fact that there are possibilities that exist which you have not considered?”
Of course, there are a miriad of possibilities about a miriad of subjects that exist, but these are subjects that I never comment on, I only comment on what I know to be True.
“You place far too much trust in your own limited capacity for comprehension and imagination.”
I trust in Yashua Anointed alone, not in my capacity. I would also state for the record that it’s your VIVID imagination that’s at work here with your 2,000 year old John. LOL
“Crosby, once again we find ourselves in a situation where you are telling me that the Scriptures DO NOT MEAN what they plainly state.”
You are the one in a situation, not me. The Truth is not a situation. The Holy Scriptures are very often open to interpretation and we have to have Spiritual discernment in order to interpret them truthfully and correctly and, as I have shown via discussions with you elsewhere, it is obvious that you do not have Spiritual discernment. You are blinkered when you read The Holy Scriptures through an agenda of your own – a syllogistic belief system.
“Has it not occurred to you that you are constantly arguing against what is written? Why do you do this?”
Has it not occurred to YOU that YOU are the one who is arguing, not me. Only one of us is of the The Truth and I am the only one who boasts in The Truth – Yashua Anointed. All YOU have is your own understanding hence nothing with you is certain – everything for you is up for debate, which leads you and possibly other people nowhere.
Beef, you are 21st century Greek intellectual who has an altar to the UNKNOWN GOD – the same god that Paul brought to the attention of the Greeks in his day.
Re Revelation I am not the least bit interested in your suggestions.
I’m really not interested in getting too far afield in any more of these conversations with you.
I would like to address the matter of the Scriptures with you only. I know who you think you are and I know who you think I am. You are wrong on both counts. When you make claims about the Scriptures from now on, try to limit your commentary to what pertains to the verses of the Book itself. For example:
Elsewhere you have asserted that there is no form of conscious existence for men between the time of their physical death and their resurrection. You know I disagree with this. Without the invective and the ad hominem nonsense, see if you can address the following verses, considering your stance on the issue:
Revelation 6:9
And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of Elohim, and for the testimony which they held;
10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Master, Holy and True, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the Earth?
11. And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they, should be fulfilled.
So here again, to be sure, you will explain to me that Scripture means something other than what is plainly stated. And you can try the ‘King James corruption’ excuse for these verses, but you will see that the message remains virtually unchanged from all of the extant manuscripts.
I promise not to ask you any more questions which will inspire you to feel that you must explain to me the finer points of who you think we are. Please stick with the topic as much as you can.
“I’m really not interested in getting too far afield in any more of these conversations with you.”
And I am not at all interested in what you think or say, because it’s all intellectual babblings and nonsense and via that nonsense you create contradictions – confusion. You might want to meditate on who the author of confusion is.
“I would like to address the matter of the Scriptures with you only.”
Impossible and, again, this is disengenuous, because you only want to try to prove your errors to be correct which is also a nonsense. It’s like telling me that black is white!
“I know who you think you are and I know who you think I am.”
I know who I am because Yashua Anointed has said who I am – His friend and brother – Born of God. What does He say about you? I’ll tell you: A 21st century Greek intellectual.
“You are wrong on both counts.”
Really? Then you had better take that up with Yashua Anointed, for He says otherwise.
“When you make claims about the Scriptures from now on, try to limit your commentary to what pertains to the verses of the Book itself.”
The Truth is NOT CLAIMED, The Truth IS. I keep saying this to you, but it doesn’t seem to sink in and then you object when I make clear that you are little dumb or even stupid or is it just stiff necked? You’re the man with the claims, not me. I never make any claims, for The Truth is told, it’s never claimed. It is only people who are unsure of themselves that make claims i.e. people whose faith is in themselves or their own agenda of whacky ideas or in some mickey mouse meaningless religion.
“Elsewhere you have asserted that there is no form of conscious existence for men between the time of their physical death and their resurrection.”
Now read what you have just written. HOW CAN THERE BE A RESURRECTION OF, OR FROM, A CONSCIOUS EXISTENCE? THIS IS A JOKE. THE RESURRECTION IS FROM THE DEAD YOU NUMPTY. HOW SIMPLE DOES IT HAVE TO BE FOR YOU PEOPLE? And, of course, that’s the problem, it’s too simple for your puffed up intellectual minds full of vain reasoning.
Finally, I have asserted nothing. The Holy Scriptures do the asserting, not me.
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-Soul-Sleep-and-Do-the-Holy-Scriptures-Disprove-It?—Part-1-of-2&id=1743245
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-is-Soul-Sleep-and-Do-the-Holy-Scriptures-Disprove-It?—Part-2-of-2&id=1743393
There’s that British wit we all know and love. Shut up and debate, hooplehead. You need the practice. Consider this spiritual jiu-jitsu and consider me your sparing partner — not your enemy. I’m not your enemy Crosby. Now…
How do you explain the verses from Revelation I posted above? I’m not reading any links right now; I’m simply asking you a question, you old grouch. There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state. You do not doubt that Messiah continued to exist after His death, do you? You had better not doubt it, Crosby. The Scriptures are unambiguous on this point. Messiah was very busy in between the time of His physical death and His resurrection. Therefore we have been given a prime example of how resurrection from a conscious existence is possible.
And getting back to the original question at issue: How do you explain the above posted verses from the Gospel of John wherein Messiah told John he was to tarry until His return? You haven’t yet explained to me in your patented Crosby Charm what you think is at the center of those verses. Why did the disciples THEMSELVES think that John was not going to die? Are they misbegotten deluded fools as well, according to you? They were witnesses to what Messiah said, and they themselves thought precisely what you have asserted (you Crosby — not Scripture) is not only NOT POSSIBLE, but is actually quite laughable and absurd.
How say you my good man?
“How do you explain the verses from Revelation I posted above? ”
quoting nonsense from the bible does not prove anything other than some people believe in nonsense.
just because its in a stupid book doesnt make it true.
such amazing stupidity, i bet youre amerikan..
@ Milk because he cannot handle meat and yet in his delusional mind sees himself as Beef Supreme – the delusion is total and complete. The biggest joker on BIN. LOL
“Shut up and debate, hooplehead. You need the practice.”
2 Cor 12:20 (KJV) For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be DEBATES, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: (emphasis mine)
“Consider this spiritual jiu-jitsu and consider me your sparing partner — not your enemy. I’m not your enemy Crosby. Now…”
I am afraid (for you) that you are my enemy (a representative of the Adversary) for if you were not my enemy you would be likeminded with me as Paul commanded the members of the early church to be:
Romans 15:5 (KJV) Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Phil 2:2 (KJV) Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
There is no way we could be of one mind without your repentance so get started if you know what’s good for you.
“How do you explain the verses from Revelation I posted above? I’m not reading any links right now.”
The answers are in the links and the fact that you have not taken the trouble to read them, thoroughly, means that you are just a time waster and a blowhard troll. Full of blather and BS.
“There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state.”
Bull’s excrement or your useless opinion – one and the same thing LOL. The Spirit is life – the only real life that there can be, so how can there be a resurrection from life? Now you answer MY question – the same question you have been avoiding all along.
In Truth, Milk, you’re not even a debator, you’re just an egotistic snake in the grass who creates contradictions and loves the sound of his own voice – all is vanity, all is meaningless.
@ Anon
Yes it’s amazing what atheists and secularists BELIEVE isn’t it?
“@ Anon
Yes it’s amazing what atheists and secularists BELIEVE isn’t it?”
well.. i wouldnt describe myself as either.. but what is it that is so amazing about being skeptical of a proposal that there is absolutely no evidence for, and based on contradictions of known science and technology?
@ anon
There is evidence if you WANT to search it out and therein lies the problem.
Science can only lead to intelligent design and if the scientist is open minded, honest and truthful. Many are not, having beliefs or an agenda similar to yours.
Crosby –
I’m not even going to look at the links right at the moment (unless you tell me you yourself are the author of the articles). I am tired of the tactic by debaters (yes Crosby, that is what we do here — one does not simply get to come here and TEACH; especially one as tightly wound as you are — without one becomes involved in some sort of a question-and-answer routine) to simply post links instead of ATTEMPT to answer difficult questions. I have asked you; I have not asked the author of the material you posted. If you cannot bear to be asked questions about the articles you post, then hang up your running shoes and go home. Stop being such a baby. And don’t you dare to pretend that you do not debate. By ‘debate’ I mean study and in-depth conversation between two (hopefully) grown men.
Answer the questions put to you. Do not run and hide behind all of the guff and nonsense you posted above (as per usual — this is what you always do when the going gets tough; you start pissing and moaning and carrying on like a weak coward). Address the questions I put to you. I asked them because they are hard and I knew you would not have an easy time answering them. Stop being a coward and get to work. This is supposed to be what we are good at Crosby.
OR — you could just spin some more of sticky noises to keep from having to tackle something difficult and continue behaving like just another coward in a room full of many other cowards.
It’s not just me watching and waiting for your response. Ply your trade. Stop distracting.
@ The Adversary’s Agent Sour Milk
“There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state.”
Bull’s excrement or your useless opinion – one and the same thing LOL. The Spirit is life – the only real life that there can be, so how can there be a resurrection from life? Now you answer MY question – the same question you have been avoiding all along.
Still waiting Mr Demonic Paul Maud Dib aka The Numpty Beef Supreme aka Mr Satanic Mayhem and confusion.
“Now you answer MY question – the same question you have been avoiding all along.”
What question Crosby? This is precisely what happened in Messiah’s case? How is not? The same type of scenario will be what awaits us all prior to our own resurrection. That’s the answer to your question. When we sleep, do we not dream? There is a lesson in this. I contend that we are dreaming the ENTIRE TIME we are asleep, and not only during brief periods of REM sleep, as the ‘scientific community’ claims. No oblivion. Messiah did not ‘see’ oblivion between His death and His resurrection; neither will we. That’s the best answer I have for your question at the moment. But please take note that I DID answer you — I didn’t try to hide behind a smoke-screen of stupid school-yard name-calling. (Not that I don’t call you silly names from time-to-time. I certainly do.)
Now then. How about answering the two questions I have posed you? I know you don’t want to deal with these questions Crosby. That’s not beside the point — rather it IS the point.
Answer the questions. Afterward you can call me as many stupid names as you like and I’ll take it with a smile. And just to refresh your memory — I know you are getting on in years so I’ll try to be as helpful as I can:
QUESTION NUMBER ONE: How is it that the disciples themselves, who were witnesses to what Messiah said to John, became convinced that John would not die? How can you explain this, since you are belittling those who have reached a similar conclusion?
QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Who are the entities being given white robes in Revelation chapter 6? Who are these folks, crying for vengeance and asking Messiah how much longer they have to wait? According to your theory, these entities do not even exist. How do you explain this?
(I’m not going away this time Crosby. The sooner you address these questions the sooner you can be rid of me — until the next time you post an article with gaping plot holes, that is.)
@ The Adversary’s Agent Sour Milk
“There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state.”
Bull’s excrement or your useless opinion – one and the same thing LOL. The Spirit is life – the only real life that there can be, so how can there be a resurrection from life? Now you answer MY question – the same question you have been avoiding all along.
Still waiting Mr Demonic Paul Maud Dib aka The Numpty Beef Supreme aka Mr Satanic Mayhem and confusion.
Are you kidding me Crosby?
Are you really going to repost your statement? Are you going to descend to such a level of stupid childishness? Surely even you must be embarrassed by such immature behavior.
Your question has been answered Crosby. Do not demean yourself any further than you already have. Answer the two questions I asked.
@ Sour Milk, Rotten Beef, Paul Maud Dib – The Judasing Dog, Mayhem and Confusion – the Devil’s servant.
Answer the question. It should be easy enough for such a ‘brilliant Bible scholar’ such as you. LOL
YOU SAID:
“There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state.”
I SAID:
The Spirit is life – the only real life that there can be, so how can there be a resurrection from life?
Tell me how life can be resurrected from life.
Are you saying that the resurrection is NOT FROM DEATH?
Even Wiki knows more that you do LOL: Resurrection (anglicized from Latin resurrectio) is the concept of a living being coming back to life after death.
Strongs Resurrection:
G386
anastasis
an-as’-tas-is
From G450; a standing up again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth): – raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.
Keep going Mr Milk, because I want to see you choke on the meat of The Truth and to make you a laughing stock – not difficult. LOL.
And don’t forget to read my articles you lazy good for nothing oik.
I will not be answering your question a third time. I have answered it twice already. Messiah was resurrected from the dead. See the Gospels for details.
Crosby: It has become more than apparent that you have no answer for the two questions I have asked you. And rather than confront this fact like a man with integrity, you have chosen to elude responsibility for answering at all. Why are you posting articles here and elsewhere if you have no answers to even the most basic of questions? Are you here to waste everyone’s time?
I had expected you to revert to your trusty default argument that ‘the Scriptures have been changed’ which, of course, you know how I respond to. In lieu of that trite and hackneyed response from you, you have offered nothing but avoidance and arrogant flappery.
At least you haven’t re-posted your previous statement yet a third time, which is what I had expected you would do. I told you I would read the material you linked to if you were the author, which you seem to (sort of) have indicated you are. I will read the material referenced, but only AFTER you answer my original two questions. I do not enjoy being handed a dissertation to wade through each and every time I ask one of you pontificators a very simple and straight forward question.
Answer the two questions. Admitting that you do not have an answer will be just fine. Dishonest avoidance and distraction is unbecoming of man with any integrity.
@ Sour Milk
“I will not be answering your question a third time. I have answered it twice already. Messiah was resurrected from the dead. See the Gospels for details.”
Correct, you won’t be answering my question any time, because you do not have an answer. You’re a waffling idiot who reads bull’s excrement into the Holy Scriptures to support your lies and fanciful fabrications. You are a perverter of The Truth.
I have answered your questions in my articles which you are too bone idle to read.
Go away and stop wasting my time you loser.
Wrong old man. Answer the questions which are put to you here, so all of your readers know you can and are not just another lying pontificator — which of course you are.
You have other considerations than just me.
Demonstrate yourself to be something more than just a stuffed wind-bag:
QUESTION NUMBER ONE: How is it that the disciples themselves, who were witnesses to what Messiah said to John, became convinced that John would not die? How can you explain this, since you are belittling those who have reached a similar conclusion?
QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Who are the entities being given white robes in Revelation chapter 6? Who are these folks, crying for vengeance and asking Messiah how much longer they have to wait? According to your theory, these entities do not even exist. How do you explain this?
And I actually just clicked on your first link. If I can’t get past the first sentence with out being subjected to your disgusting judgmental banter, then I won’t be bothering to read the garbage which follows.
No Crosby. I do not read any more of your nonsense articles. You will answer the questions posed to you here in brief, or you will be forever exposed for the lying charlatan I know you to be. You have no answer. You have nothing to offer but lying filth and venom. You are the bane of your own existence.
Now answer the questions.
@ Putrefying Beef
“And I actually just clicked on your first link. If I can’t get past the first sentence with out being subjected to your disgusting judgmental banter, then I won’t be bothering to read the garbage which follows.”
Excuses, excuses, the feeble excuses of a man exposed for ALL to see. You could not read on because you have no stomach for meat and no stomach for The Truth – you’re a fraud and a liar – a son of the Devil.
A lying wretch who said this: “There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state.” And like all liars tries to worm his way out by the distractions of alleged unanswered questions. You’re not even clever at it are you Dib?
Dear Dubious Hooplehead…
No one on BIN will think any less of me for declining to read pages of your unprofitable perverse pontificatings. Now hear this:
MESSIAH WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD.
MESSIAH DID NOT EXPERIENCE OBLIVION BETWEEN HIS DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION.
EVEN A BLIND FOOK KNOWS THIS TO BE TRUE.
WE WILL EXPERIENCE SOMETHING SIMILAR BETWEEN OUR DEATHS AND RESURRECTIONS.
If I knew how to phrase that even more simply, I would. I understand that you labor beneath a very frail and limited mind, so I do not mind having to repeat myself in order for your rusty brain-gears to GROCK my meaning. I hope you can understand me this time. If not, I will re-explain myself yet again.
NOW THEN. How about answering my questions to you? You can even cut-and-paste from your own published oozings and seepings. If you have nothing to say by way of an answer, then just admit as much and I’ll be on my way. Until such time as you offer me an answer — or admit to me that you can’t — I will be posting on this link until one of us dies, or until BIN shuts down, or until Messiah returns. If you want me to leave you alone, then answer my questions.
I have much more patience for this kind of thing than you do Crosby. Try me.
@ Putrefying Beef and the stench is getting worse.
“MESSIAH DID NOT EXPERIENCE OBLIVION BETWEEN HIS DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION.”
Are you saying that we are the same as God? If so, let’s see your proof and evidence.
No intellectual explaining away permitted.
Am I saying that we are the same as Messiah? (Assuming that’s who you mean by ‘God.’)
No Crosby. Are you finished playing a four-year-old’s games now? I merely gave you one example of a resurrection from death which did not entail a resurrection from oblivion — something which you claim does not exist. Your claim is false.
Are you ready to answer my questions yet, or is it your pleasure to continue playing school-yard games? Isn’t it past your bedtime already? What are you still doing awake at this hour?
Two questions Crosby. Your answers please.
@ Rotten stinking putrefying Beef
1/10 for that opinion based BS and a mealy mouthed attempt at explaining away. Very poor indeed.
Oh dear and he’s now back on the claims crap when he knows I never make any claims.
Well if we’re not like God then I have to presume that God can do things that we can’t i.e. resurrect ourselves from death and vist spirits in their prison.
Still waiting for your explanation on how spirit life can be resurrected.
Dear Grouchy,
In the interest of fairness, I will answer any and all of the specific objections you point to in my answer. I will address them all, one at a time. THAT IS, I will do so after you answer my two question, which were asked long before any question by you. That you do not find my answer sufficient or acceptable is a separate issue. I will address this issue after you make an attempt to answer my two questions to you.
If you need me to re-post the questions for you, just let me know and I will be happy to oblige.
How say you, Grouchy?
@ Rotten smelly Beef
I have answered your questions in my articles and you refuse to read them. Your obtuse bloody mindedness in refusing to do so is your problem, not mine.
Now let’s hear it from BIN’s inhouse court jester:
How does Spirit life which, don’t forget, is the only real life, get resurrected? How does this work when you have already admitted that Yashua Anointed rose from the DEAD?
Not so Grouchy.
I didn’t ask your perverse papers. I asked you. I can’t cross-examine a bunch of words on the screen, written by some angry British Hooplehead.
Post up your responses to my questions right here. Then you can subject me to the most stringent line of questioning you can muster and I will not duck or dodge even the slightest bit.
You answer, then I answer. You have my word.
And how come you are still awake?
@ Maggot ridden Beef
Your word?????????????????????????????????/
Now that’s a joke for a start. Your word has the value of an empty baked bean can. LOL
All your questions have been answered, whether here or in my articles. Your not being happy with the format is neither here nor there. My question remains unanswered and that’s The Truth of the matter.
Now just run along there’s a good boy as you are now a complete bore.
These are the two questions for which Crosby has no answer:
QUESTION NUMBER ONE: How is it that the disciples themselves, who were witnesses to what Messiah said to John, became convinced that John would not die? How can you explain this, since you are belittling those who have reached a similar conclusion?
QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Who are the entities being given white robes in Revelation chapter 6? Who are these folks, crying for vengeance and asking Messiah how much longer they have to wait? According to your theory, these entities do not even exist. How do you explain this?
You should have courtesy enough to your other readers to post the supposed answers here Crosby. You don’t because you have no answer. There is no answer to these questions in the articles you cite. If there were, you would cut-and-past the information into this comment section to remove all doubt about your ability to answer these two simple questions.
You can’t answer. Your articles have no answer. So you continue to wiggle and squirm and sell nonsense.
@ Maggot ridden Beef putrefied,
And here is another lie from BIN’s inhouse prize liar.
“These are the two questions for which Crosby has no answer.”
“You should have courtesy enough to your other readers to post the supposed answers here Crosby.”
I have posted links to my articles for you and my readers and I am sure my readers had no trouble in reading them. This means that it’s you who has the problem, no one else.
The other amazing thing is that you are so arrogant as to assume that you speak for other people.
How long do you intend on kicking against the pricks or banging your thick head against the wall? It surely must be hurting by now even with a skull as thick as yours. LOL
I have until I run out of time Crosby. How much time do you imagine YOU have.
Post the quotes if you are so certain the answers are contained amongst your perverse ramblings and howlings. The answers are not there.
You have no answers. You have only hot gas and wind.
@ Maggot ridden Beef putrefied,
The only thing supreme about you Beef is your ability to waffle, blather and spew BS. If there were a Nobel Prize for it you would win it hands down. LOL LOL LOL
I have all eternity to rebut your nonsense how about you with your limited time that you have left under The Law?
The answers are there and your saying that they are not there proves you have not read the articles, so you’re lying again. If fact you lie nearly everytime you write a comment, but then I did say earlier that you are a stranger to The Truth.
As for hot air and wind that prize must also go to you – hands down again. LOL
Dear Grouchy,
I never said I read the articles. You are putting lies in my mouth again. The answers aren’t there because you don’t know the answers.
If you tell me specifically where in the articles the (alleged) answers are, then I will go take a look. Baring that, I won’t bother reading any more of your writing because I have already read FAR TOO MUCH of your writing — exactly 100 percent of which is perverse and unprofitable.
Where are the answers Grouchy?
@ Milky Yuk that used to be Beef.
“The answers aren’t there because you don’t know the answers.”
Yet another lie.
The answers ARE there, but you refuse to read them because you’re fearful of being proved wrong and you’re fearful of being proved wrong because your Pacific Ocean sized ego will explode with such force and velocity that you’ll disappear up your own arsehole with it. What a most pleasant and hilarious thought. LOL
How much more time are you going to give over to your lost cause? Have you thought about seeking professional help for your obsessive disorder behaviour?
I’m not wading through and more of your demented dribblings Crosby. I will post back and forth here because it amuses me to do so. Of course, I would much rather engage in constructive dialogue about matters related to the Book. But since you are content advertising the existence of non-existent answers, then I’ll have to be content to sit you out and smirk at your empty claims.
Cosby: “I DON’T MAKE CLAIMS!!! But I claim that there are answers to BEEF SUPREME’s questions in my referenced articles.”
Show me. Prove me wrong. So far, all you have amounted to is a light breeze with a funny smell. You can be a man of talk or a man of action. Pull up some quotes from your articles. Or tell me where to look — cuz I ain’t reading any more of your offal, hooplehead. At least the nonsense you post here is written specifically for me.
Put it up or pack it in Grouchy.
@ the Moron’s moron, Beef the Numpty,
The Truth is never claimed only mongrel dogs and liars claim things. Looks like the cap fits you a treat.
Here are a few highlights from Strong’s which SHOULD have some meaning for you, but because you are a granite monolith of obstinate stubbornness, you will pretend the following has no meaning:
(Begin quote from Strong’s)
STRONG’S H7585 שׁאל שׁאול she’ôl, she’ôl, sheh-ole’, sheh-ole’…
Sheol is the abode of the dead, a place of degradation, the locality or condition of those who have died or have been destroyed. It is implied that although, so far as the world is concerned, they have perished,
YET THEY ARE STILL IN A STATE OF EXISTENCE AND ARE WITHIN GOD’S COGNIZANCE.
Sheol is the place of the dead. Sheol is THE NETHERWORLD. Though man knows so little about it, sheol is naked and open before God. He can find men there; He can hide them there; He can redeem them thence.
(End quote)
Does that sound like oblivion to you Crosby? (And of course verse citations are provided with the entire original quote. Look them up if you like – I’m not doing ALL of the work for you.)
Crosby responds: “AHRRRGH!! More rubbish and nonsense from blokes who like to read books and THINK. We can have no such blasphemy on my watch!! All of you self-righteous fools who dare to look at books and to contemplate the actual meanings of words are just so much swamp stench and mustard gas. You idiots aren’t allowed to think for yourselves!!! You’re only allowed to think what I TELL YOU TO THINK!!! AHHHRRRRRGGGHHH!!! BEEF SUPREME IS A SUPREME MORON!!! LOLLLLLLL!!!!”
See? I can do your job for you better than you can Grouchy. What do we need you for? I’ll just answer myself from now on and pretend that it’s you talking. I’m guaranteed to have far more meaningful conversation by doing this. I’m sure you’ll disagree. If I told you your name was Charles Crosby you would disagree with me.
@ Sour Milk the blaspheming mongrel dog who no longer looks supreme. LOL aka Paul Maud Dib and Middle Aged Mayhem – a multi-personality disorder known as demonism just LIKE THE DEMON LEGION.
Eccl 9:5 (KJV) For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Except in Beef Moron’s world with his bull’s excrement after death cognizance. LOL
Eccl 9:10 (KJV) Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
And there’s no wisdom or knowledge with some of the living either e.g. Beef Moronic. LOL
Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Eccl 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
And no one is more vain than Beef BS with all his half-way house satanic cognizance crap.
Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Looks like the dead, IF they are conscious in your mickey mouse cognizance fantasy world, don’t do anything worth while, because they cannot even praise The Lord. LOL
Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
I don’t want to give you thanks now Beef let alone when you’re dead in your grave. LOL
I can’t wait for the time when there will be no remembrance of you Beef. LOL What bliss.
1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Christ is risen from the DEAD, not from some delusional state of congnizance which is just a creation of your evil demonic mind. He is also the FIRST of others who would do the same having fallen asleep – having died.
1 Cor 15:12 (KJV) Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
Now Beef, how do YOU say that there is no resurrection of the DEAD but, rather, a non-resurrection from a spirit life? And I will quote your words here:
“There can be a resurrection from a spiritual to a spiritual/physical state.”
Looks to me like you’re saying there is no resurrection from the DEAD and/or that there are two resurrections. A resurrection into your fantasy realm and then a further resurrection to a spiritual/physical state.
1 Cor 15:16-18 (KJV) For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
For if the DEAD rise not. Not the semi-dead rising from a fantasy world of Beef BS – the dreamer, liar and perverter of The Holy Scriptures.
For if the there is no resurrection when Yahua Anointed returns then those who are dead (fallen asleep) will never see life again – they will remain dead in their graves.
1 Cor 15:22 (KJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
ALL in Adam die. Not all in Adam who will float off into Beef BS’s mickey mouse fantasy realm. All those in Christ will be made alive in the resurrection WHICH DOES NOT OCCUR UNTIL HE RETURNS IN POWER AND GLORY. THIS IS THE ONLY RESURRECTION until the second resurrection at the end of the millennium.
1 Cor 15:40 (KJV) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
There are ONLY TWO KINDS OF BODY. One is Spiritual, here called celestial, and the other physical, here called terrestrial. THERE IS NO HALF-WAY SEMI SPIRITUAL BODY AS RESIDING IN BEEF MORONIC’s FANTASY REALM DELUSIONAL MIND.
1 Cor 15:44 (KJV) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
The body is sown naturally as a physical body and it is raised IN THE RESURRECTION as a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is no semi-spiritual state other than in the idiotic mind of the stupid moron Beef Putrefied.
That was a very excellent job you did of posting Scripture verses Grouchy! I’m proud of you. Next thing you know you’ll be tying your own boot laces and buying your own bubble gum.
What you have failed, utterly, to do Grouchy, is to address either of the very simple questions I posed to you, which by now, no doubt, you have forgotten (again) — so allow me:
QUESTION NUMBER ONE: How is it that the disciples themselves, who were witnesses to what Messiah said to John, became convinced that John would not die? How can you explain this, since you are belittling those who have reached a similar conclusion?
QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Who are the entities being given white robes in Revelation chapter 6? Who are these folks, crying for vengeance and asking Messiah how much longer they have to wait? According to your theory, these entities do not even exist. How do you explain this?
And Grouchy — I’m still not Middle Aged Mayhem. Never was. Never will be. Just something else you’re wrong about in a very long line of things. They could fill a book with what you don’t know Grouchy. In fact, they have. It’s called the Bible.
@ Sour Milk the blaspheming mongrel dog who no longer looks supreme. LOL aka Paul Maud Dib and other names that escape me at present – a multi-personality disorder known as demonism just LIKE THE DEMON LEGION.
Yes, an excellent job wasted on you. Pearls before swine.
There is only one failure here i.e you, a walking failure and a liar.
As always the answers have been here all the while hence I posted my articles but being a stiff necked so and so you refuse to read them.
What are you going to do now, because all your frothing and foaming at the mouth will change nothing?
Frothing and foaming at the mouth? Surely you have mistaken me for yourself Grouchy. BEEF SUPREME doesn’t froth. He only gets smarmy with crotchety old British gas pipes who love to belch noxious fumes and pass of clouds of cabbage fumes for something of value.
You have no answers Grouchy. If you had them you would have posted them by now. Therefore, you moan and complain and pass wind.
Good luck convincing anyone with eyes and ears that anything worth hearing was ever written or uttered by Cabbage Crosby, the British Grouch.
I’ll be back from time to time to repost the question you have not answered, in the event you do come across the answers in your travels. Of course, I have no idea where that might be, since none of your time is actually spent reading the Bible.
Enjoy your hot cabbage gas Grouchy. I’ll be back when I feel like it to remind you of how little you know.
@ Beef the purveyor of 100% bull’s excrement – neat and undiluted.
Go on Beef you keep waffling, crapping and blathering to the end, it wouldn’t be you if you didn’t. LOL
Unbelievable!!!
You must think no one, else, is reading this, yes2truth. Surely i’m not alone in watching you childishly refuse to answer the two questions put to you succinctly and repeatedly.
I know why you must refuse, the questions are difficult and you are unable to reconcile them with the flawed doctrine that you claim as Truth.
As to your continued allegation, that Beef Supreme and myself are one and the same, all the folk need do is drop Webby an email asking him to compare the IP addresses of both parties.
As to the squabble going on in this thread i suggest that anyone reading it can asses the tone/demeanor of the conversation and clearly see that you, Crosby, are a hate filled nasty little runt. (sic)
Aside from whether your arguments are valid or accurate you show yourself as a wholly unpleasant fellow. Is this your intent?
Sour Milk the blaspheming mongrel dog who no longer looks supreme. LOL aka Paul Maud Dib and Middle Aged Mayhem – a multi-personality disorder known as demonism just LIKE THE DEMON LEGION.
Well well well, so you lied again Dib, boy they pour from your mouth like sewage from a large pipe, don’t they?
Just for the record and for all your ‘friends’ Dib, I am very happy with this thread and with way it has turned out with your usual defeat and you skulking away with your tail (very appropriate here) between your legs.
What does amaze me is your appetite for humiliation and punishment – I now must consider you a masochist as well as an obsessive maniac, not to mention of course your well deserved title as a blaspheming mongrel dog.
I’m still here hooplehead. And just for the record — any fool can see that Mayhem writes with a Kiwi accent and I write with a New Joisey accent.
Every fool but you, that is.
And Grouchy — if ever you finally do defeat me in debate, I’ll let you know. I wish there were others who saw things the way you do. I hate to think of you going through life all alone in your unique and utterly impenetrable delusional fog.
Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us? Or are you simply employing the Alinsky tactic of claiming victory, falsely, knowing full well that some will only see the last few posts in many threads.
Do keep in mind, yes2truth, that surely the majority of the folk interested in these debates respect themselves enough to read the whole thing.
Right from the get go you Authored this thread in a snooty tone and bandied about slurs and passive aggressive challenges. Forget the toing and froing between you and Beef, just look at the way this thread is presented. You be proud alright.
Truth does not need the many qualifiers seen in your first paragraph. I count a handful of pre-qualifiers. Know what they are? It’s all the words that show your bias. Oh and a strawman argument? Poor you forced to educate the un-enlightened masses. All the beseeching of your precious time must be a terrible burden. You and i share the same language, you get sarcasm just fine.
All round you’re a detestable piece of work who can not be bringing people to redemption. Who would want to follow a religion that speaks like you do, Crosby?
I’ve read this entire piece several times and all of it’s comments at least once. I’ve also pondered really hard at the two questions posted by Beef Supreme. I have only this to offer. Scripture is never flawed, only our understanding.
I’m practising what i preach, i’m reading with vigour everything i find that purports to question The Inspired Word. I’m novice but with the help of the interweb i get the privilege of cutting right to the chase.
I have never seen you, yes2truth, take a point off Beef Supreme in nearly a year. Despite what you claim. Repeatedly Beef Supreme presents pertinent Scripture backed by sound reference to the original language and exposes contextural anomalies using more Scripture. It’d be a hard sell getting much passed the man in my opinion.
@ Sour Milk the blaspheming mongrel dog who no longer looks supreme. LOL aka Paul Maud Dib and Middle Aged Mayhem – a multi-personality disorder known as demonism just LIKE THE DEMON LEGION.
I defeat you before you type one word – you’re a born loser.
Yes The Truth is impenetrable as you have discovered on numerous occasions.
Look at you now just waffling and blathering away kidding yourself that you’re credible. It’s very sad really as there seems to be no cure for your malady.
@ Sour Milk the blaspheming mongrel dog who no longer looks supreme. LOL aka Paul Maud Dib and Middle Aged Mayhem – a multi-personality disorder known as demonism just LIKE THE DEMON LEGION.
“Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us? Or are you simply employing the Alinsky tactic of claiming victory, falsely, knowing full well that some will only see the last few posts in many threads.”
The only tactic being employed here is one maniac making out he’s two, LOL, but don’t worry I’ve called for the men in white coats and they’ll soon be here to certify you and take you away.
Yet it remains that you, who authored this thread, are refusing to answer two pertinent questions. I might have used that word twice now, i chose it after careful consideration. You, yes2truth, do not have the luxury to refuse acknowledgement. Therefore you have failed to win anything.
ps, do we really have to do this one paragraph at a time? What of the rest of my post, Crosby?
@ Sour Milk the blaspheming mongrel dog who no longer looks supreme. LOL aka Paul Maud Dib and Middle Aged Mayhem – a multi-personality disorder known as demonism just LIKE THE DEMON LEGION.
You’re like a vinyl record with the stylus stuck in the grove. LOL
All the answers are here Dib whether directly or indirectly via my articles.
I know that someone as useless as you has plenty of time on their hands, but your continued worthless comments even make a mockery of that. LOL
Greetings GROUCHY!!!
I hope you are actually reading some Scripture today. What book are you reading? And another question I have for you which keeps popping up and I keep meaning to ask you:
When was the last time you (according to you, that is) were actually WRONG about anything related to the Scriptures. I mean, you weren’t born infallible, were you? (I know, infallible isn’t a good enough word to describe what you think you are. But I can’t conjure up any better words right at the moment.) So were you wrong BEFORE you were baptized, and are you now infallible? What was the last error you believed, and when did you believe it?
I have also been studying the wake of confusion and bewilderment you have left across the cyber-ether. There are myriad blog posters who have written articles (or at least lengthy postings) about you. The consensus is more or less universal (not that its a valid indicator of anything) that you are not a sane man. I don’t think you are crazy Grouchy; I just think you haven’t the foggiest idea of how to be honest with yourself. The reason for this is two-fold: One part is that you are too arrogant to be teachable; the other is that you refuse to obey your Master.
Here again are the questions you stubbornly decline to answer, in case one day you change your mind and decide to demonstrate that you are composed of substance other than cabbage gas:
QUESTION NUMBER ONE: How is it that the disciples themselves, who were witnesses to what Messiah said to John, became convinced that John would not die? How can you explain this, since you are belittling those who have reached a similar conclusion?
QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Who are the entities being given white robes in Revelation chapter 6? Who are these folks, crying for vengeance and asking Messiah how much longer they have to wait? According to your theory, these entities do not even exist. How do you explain this?
Have a nice day Grouchy!!!
?
That is a timely reminder, Beef. Must be time for my netiquette spiel.
Do the folk know? If you type a username (any old moniker you see) type it into their favourite search engine and you will find out a great deal. Try it with and without quotations and have a look at the images associated with the username.
It is not wise to read too much into anything you see let alone any of what you hear but generalisations can be found and reasonably sound conclusions may be drawn.
I’ve spent the last hour doing Charles Crosby aka yes2truth. Eye opening, the first page of results, alone, pose many interesting notions about who, exactly, this yes2truth character is.
Hey Crosby, looking at the images, which one is you? Oh and by the way Delta Goodrem? great taste bro.
ps, do i do this often? Heck yeah i’ve stalked you all; i use only the tools that are available to everyone and no nefarious tactics. I’m not nearly smart enough, to even begin to know how, to dig to any depth.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Crosby turned out to be the corpulent black jazz musician by the same name?
??
Grouchy is getting tired. Either that or he has been smitten mute.
I’ll leave you alone today Grouchy so that you can spend some time reading Scripture.
I only read Scripture in order to confirm that you’re writing crap here on BIN which, of course, is 100% of the time. LOL
I wish you a miserable pagan festival when, no doubt, YOU WILL be reading Scripture in vain.
How hilarious it is to mock the spiritually blind. LOL
For your information Grouchy —
Today happens to be the ACTUAL Passover Day, according to the ACTUAL Calendar of YHWH. Nothing pagan about that. The dates normally do not coincide. This year Passover coincides with pagan Easter. YHWH’s Calendar has nothing to do with the rabbi’s Jerusalem calendar with crescent Moons and such. Tomorrow is the first day of Chag Matzot (the day beginning at sunrise — not sundown, as per the rabbis); which is a Sabbaton (not a Sabbath), which means that Grouchy should cease from work.
Just thought you might like to know.
Happy Passover Grouchy.
Wrong again.
Passover was Tuesday 26th.
But I know you were referring to Babylonian Easter being a mainstream blasphemer of sorts.
I don’t keep any Old Covenant Holy Days ‘cos I live under Grace, unlike you and your law keeping. Oh and thanks for reminding me how you lost on that discussion as well.
BEEF LOSER – a numpty of numpties. LOL
Grouchy wrote:
“Wrong again. Passover was Tuesday 26th.”
Perhaps according to the Babylonian lunar calendar adopted by the rabbis it was, but not according to any instructions in Scripture. YHWH’s Passover takes place today. This year the date happens to coincide with Easter, which is actually very rare.
The day of equal light and darkness in Jerusalem is the last day of the year. This is followed by an uncounted Day of Remembrance. The following day is day one of the first CHODESH of the new year. Fourteen days later will be the day of the Passover. The first CHODESH is the chodesh of the aviv — it is not called the ‘month’ Aviv, as is commonly misunderstood from the Book of Exodus.
Sunrise tomorrow marks the first day of Chag Matzot, the seven day feast of Unleavened Bread.
All followers of Messish Yehoshua are required to observe the feasts. Why else would the apostles have continued to observe the feasts long after Messiah’s crucifixion?
More intellectual clap trap from Beef Nonsense
“Perhaps according to the Babylonian lunar calendar adopted by the rabbis it was.”
Rubbish – Babylonian luna calendar my arse.
The Isrealites, 1,000 + years before the captivity, ALWAYS followed the Hebrew luna calendar and kept a Holy Day for the new moon each moon-th.
Passover ALWAYS falls on the 14th Abib now known as Nisan – the first month of the Hebrew new year.
This date moves around due to the Hebrew 360 day year with an extra month added when necessary to make up the other 5 days per year lost.
There is not such thing as intercalation in the LEGITIMATE Calendar. Show me one example of a thirteenth month in Scripture. ALL MONTHS in Scripture have only 30 days each.
Crosby — look at the flood narrative in the Book of Genesis. FIVE CONSECUTIVE months are discussed in chapter 7 verse 11 through the opening verses of chapter 8.
Explain this to me, Grouchy — HOW CAN YOU HAVE LUNAR MONTHS WHEN 5 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS = 150 DAYS??? Are you kidding me Grouchy? Are your math skills also as piss poor as your reading skills? Do you know ANYTHING about the Bible at all?
From the 17th day of the 2nd month, to the 17th day of the 7th month = 150 days. HOW does that work out to ANY kind of lunar calendar?
You really should go study the Bible for about a year before you EVER open your mouth about Scripture again. The chodeshim names according to YHWH’s Calendar DO NOT HAVE NAMES — only the Babylonian/Sumerian/Egyptian months have names.
@ Beef the intellectual moron.
Abib is the first MONTH of the Hebrew year. The Passover was the harvest of the Lambs. The Isrealite Feast days were agrarian based Feast Days.
The Hebrew calendar was/is based upon a 360 day year. There is always a period of darkness (two days) between the waned moon and the new moon making a 30 day month.
You see Beef Dib the ignorant blasphemer I have observed these Holy Days myself in the past and was taught by Hebrew Calendar experts who had studied these things for years. Now am I going to listen to an idiot like you who is wrong about everything else? LOL
And lets’s prove it as well for good measure:
“You really should go study the Bible for about a year before you EVER open your mouth about Scripture again. The chodeshim names according to YHWH’s Calendar DO NOT HAVE NAMES”
Ex 23:15 (KJV) Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
H24 ‘âbı̂yb aw-beeb’
From an unused root (meaning to be tender); green, that is a young ear of grain; hence the name of the month Abib or Nisan: – Abib, ear, green ears of corn.
It’s you Beef that needs to put the Bible down and forget it, for it is lethal in your hands. You are the worst kind of intellectual I have yet come up against and a more wretched evil specimen than you would be very hard to find – a 24crt son of the Devil.
Grouchy writes:
“The Hebrew calendar was/is based upon a 360 day year. There is always a period of darkness (two days) between the waned moon and the new moon making a 30 day month.”
Then Grouchy quotes from the KING JAMES because he thinks it is convenient to his purposes to do so. Were it not convenient, then he would EXCORIATE the KING JAMES as being the work of Freemasons:
“Ex 23:15 (KJV) Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)”
Try looking at the verse in Hebrew Grouchy… Have you ever thought to do that? Here we have:
“le-moed chodesh e-abib” There are no two ways about it. That says: appointed time in the month OF THE aviv.
Repeat – it DOES NOT SAY the month Aviv. It says the month OF THE aviv.
There are no two ways about it Grouchy. All those years learning whatever the hell you learned from your Jewish instructors was just more of your time wasted.
NOW THEN…
Perhaps Grouchy would care to explain to me, and to everyone else reading this, HOW ON YHWH’S GOOD EARTH you can have a year based on a lunar calendar with 360 days.
Are you kidding me Grouchy? Do you EVER do any thinking before you write? Do you ever listen to the words you are choosing to communicate your thoughts and ponder them? What you have suggested is not only IMPOSSIBLY, but it betrays a complete and utter lack of understanding about ANYTHING related to ANY calendar.
In this case Grouchy – not only are you wrong, but you have managed to ELIMINATE ANY POSSIBILITY that you could be right. No Jewish lunar calendar was ever 360 days. A lunar calendar CAN NOT BE a 360 day calendar. The lunation period is 29.5 days. It is NOT 30 days, as it would have to be in order to have a lunar 360 day year.
You do not cease to amaze me Grouchy. Just when I think you have thrilled me with your lack of understanding of ALL THINGS – you take your imaginary and fake model of this this universe to an entirely new level.
The more you talk it becomes apparent how little you know. Everyone but you can see this clearly.
@ Beef the mongrel dog
“Then Grouchy quotes from the KING JAMES because he thinks it is convenient to his purposes to do so. Were it not convenient, then he would EXCORIATE the KING JAMES as being the work of Freemasons:”
Carry on twisting and perverting you son of the Devil.
The King James Bible CONTAINS The Holy Scriptures, but The King James Bible is NOT The Holy Scriptures. Only messengers of Yashua Anointed like me can interpret them and use them truthfully, not lying mongrel dogs like you.
Aviv and Abib are the same month you moron. Aviv being the seventh month of the Jewish civil year, and the first of the Biblical ecclesiastical year.
You know nothing.
An intellectual blatherer and idiot.
“Perhaps Grouchy would care to explain to me, and to everyone else reading this, HOW ON YHWH’S GOOD EARTH you can have a year based on a lunar calendar with 360 days.”
I have already explained that, but you can’t even read, you jerk.
It’s like I’m dealing with an imbecile.
Pay attention little man and learn:
Aviv and Abib are the same. No one is arguing that. Aviv means ripe in the head.
The month is not NAMED Aviv. It is referred to as the month OF THE aviv. It is the month DURING WHICH the barley becomes ripe in the head. Nowhere in Scripture is it written that the first month is given a proper name, according to His Calendar.
Then you have imagined yourself to have explained something. You have spoken of “a period of darkness (two days) between the waned moon and the new moon making a 30 day month.”
Are you serious? You cannot possibly be soft-headed enough to have convinced yourself that the period of darkness somehow MAGICALLY stretches the period between New Moons to 30 days. Can you really be this obtuse?
Grouchy — NEW MOON TO NEW MOON is 29.5 days on average. It is not 30 days, as you have suggested. No matter the period of darkness Grouchy, the length of time between New Moons is not affected. New Moon to New Moon is 29.5 days.
Grouchy — If you keep insisting that I cover even this most BASIC of information when I am dealing with you, then I am going to have to consider charging you a modest fee for the education I am providing you. I don’t mind doing it, but you are beginning to require more of my time than I have presently available whenever you force me to explain to you the very simplest concepts which most children above the age of seven are well-familiar with.
For homework I am going to assign you a study of the habits of the Lesser Luminary. Go look up the length of the average lunar cycle and the patterns of the lunar orbit. You will be tested on this material.
@ Beef the cretin
“The month is not NAMED Aviv.”
Correct, it is named in The Holy Scriptures as ABIB or in the modern Jewish idiom Nisan.
“It is referred to as the month OF THE aviv.”
The month ‘of the’ or month ‘of’ it makes no difference because it was the fouteenth day of that month.
Ex 12:18 (KJV) In the first month (Abib), on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even. (brackets mine)
The seven day Feast of Unleavened Bread which commennces with the Passover starts on the 14th day of ABIB at sunset.
Ex 13:3-4 (KJV) And Moses said unto the people, Remember THIS DAY, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the Lord brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten. 4 This day came ye out IN THE MONTH ABIB. (emphasis mine)
Moses said REMEMBER THIS DAY every year.
Ex 34:18 (KJV) The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
The Hebrew month is as you say 29.5 days but these are divided into six months of 30 days duration and six months 29 days duration giving a total of 354 days for the year, a short fall of 11 days which are made up by the addition of an extra month when necessary. So whether 360 or 354 there was always a short fall when compared with the 365 day year.
“The month ‘of the’ or month ‘of’ it makes no difference because it was the fouteenth day of that month.”
Not so Groucho… The month is called OF THE aviv. This is referring to the month OF THE ripe-in-the-head barley. This is not indicative of a proper name for the month. This is important because NONE of the months in YHWH’s Calendar have names. They are all assigned ordinal numbers: The First Month… The Second Month… etc.
“Moses said REMEMBER THIS DAY every year.”
That’s right, he did Grouchy. Why don’t you observe the Passover in that case? Too bad you just missed it. You can still make it up and observe the SECOND PASSOVER which falls in the 2nd chodesh (which begins on April 17th) on the 14th day of the chodesh (April 30). You will recall from reading Scripture that those Israelites who missed the first Passover were permitted to make it up the following ‘month.’ It’s not too late Grouchy.
“The Hebrew month is as you say 29.5 days but these are divided into six months of 30 days duration and six months 29 days duration giving a total of 354 days for the year, a short fall of 11 days which are made up by the addition of an extra month when necessary. So whether 360 or 354 there was always a short fall when compared with the 365 day year.”
There is not one single example in Scripture of ANY intercalary day or ANY intercalary months used for the authentic Calendar of the Hebrews. Quite the OPPOSITE Grouchy. The Book of Revelation states in NAKED terms that months have 30 days each. Genesis likewise makes it clear that months have only 30 days, as does the Book of Daniel. The Priestly Courses, outlined in 1 Chronicles 24, make it clear that a lunar calendar with intercalation was not used.
A lunar calendar was not used by the Israelites until the Hasmonean Rebellion when the Sadducees (the Zadokite Priests – the Tsadokim [Zadokim]; Tsadoki is translated Sadducee) were ejected from the Temple and the Pharisees took power. The Pharisees ARE NOT descendants of Zadok and are not legitimate Levitical Priests of the bloodline of Aaron. The Sadducees are the legitimate priests. The Sadducees (the Conservatives) kept the CORRECT Calendar. The Pharisees (the Liberals) and their illegitimate priests in the Temple implemented an ILLEGITIMATE calendar based on Satanic Babylonian MOON WORSHIP. The months (chodeshim) of YHWH’s Calendar have NOTHING to do with the Moon.
Genesis 1:14
“Let there be lights in the Firmament of the Heaven to divide the day from night; and let them be for SIGNS and for SEASONS and for DAYS and for YEARS.”
See anything here about MONTHS Grouchy? No. The Moon is not for months. Months are determined by counting.
Grouchy – ALL of the evidence in the Scriptures bears this out. There is NO evidence in Scripture to prove legitimate usage of the Pharisee’s Satanic lunar calendar. The lunar calendar of the rabbis is not the authentic calendar of YHWH of Hosts.
…But YES…
The Passover is held on the fourteenth day in the month OF THE aviv.
@ Beef the comedian who forgot his lines. LOL
Thanks for the last comment which contradicted everything else you had said in the comment before. You are a fine example of a man with his head up his arse. LOL
I like it, too, how you are ignoring The Holy Sciptures with your Jewish intellectualism. Something for my Truth armoury.
Lev 23:5 (KJV) In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord’S passover.
And the first month (moonth) was ABIB, not AVIV
They observed New Moons as Holy Days. Month comes from Moonth. Lunar observance whether you like it or not.
1 Chron 23:30-31 (KJV) And to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise at even; 31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:
Grouchy wrote:
“Thanks for the last comment which contradicted everything else you had said in the comment before.”
Grouchy — nothing I have said is contradictory. Sit down and read slowly. You can do it.
The ‘B’ and the ‘V’ are more-or-less interchangeable when we translate Hebrew into English. That is why you will sometimes see ABraham written as AVraham. These are not two different men, but the same man. Similarly, the Hebrew word in question can be translated either as AVIV or ABIB without changing the meaning at all. The words aViV and aBiB carry identical meaning because they are the same word. To-ma-to / to-mah-to. Pay attention Crabby. I don’t want to have to explain this point again. Go look it up if you don’t believe me. Go look it up even if you DO believe me.
THE PASSOVER IS ON THE FOURTEENTH DAY OF THE FIRST CHODESH. This is the chodesh of the aviv (abib). I have never said ANYTHING which contradicts this statement.
And lastly Grouchy — when you see ‘new moon’ contained in verses like 1 Chronicles 23:30-31 (which you posted above), these are examples of BAD TRANSLATION. The assumption is made that the Hebrew word ‘chodesh’ means ‘New Moon’ because the ASSUMPTION is made that the original, authentic calendar of the Ancient Israelites was a lunar calendar. This assumption is false.
The original Calendar of the Ancient Israelites WAS NOT a lunar calendar, but was the Calendar of YHWH of Hosts — a 364-day septenary (meaning based on recurring sevens) calendar with 12 months of 30 days each, punctuated by four Days of Remembrance per year. NO lunar months, ever — NO 13th month, ever — NO deviation from one year to the next, ever.
Please re-read this post before you comment further, Grouchy. You are scanning my comments and you are not extending me the common courtesy of carefully reading what I am writing to you.
Because Grouchy is such a LAZY thinker, I am going to prove for him what I said above about AVIV and ABIB.
I am CERTAIN Grouchy has heard of the Israeli city TEL-AVIV. After Jerusalem and Bethlehem, this is perhaps the third most widely recognized Israeli city.
Now then Grouchy – please open up your trusty King James Version to Ezekiel 3:15. Read out loud please:
Ezekiel 3:15
“Then I came to them of the captivity at TEL-A-BIB, that dwelt by the river of Chebar…”
IF you do not think that the city mentioned in this verse in the KJV and Tel-Aviv are the same city, then I would suggest you examine other translations. Beyond that, I will have to smack you in the head with something wet and soggy.
Firstly, let us repost the entire current comment from Grouchy, sans the profanity which will get the comment ERASED by BIN, which Grouchy well knows. Bad Gouchy.
(Begin Grouchy post here)
@ Paul Maud Dib; Middle aged Mayhem and Beef that never was supreme posing as these various stupid names in order to deceive.
“What is Rosh Chodesh?” From the Virtual Jewish Library
Rosh Chodesh is the monthly celebration of the New Moon, according to the Jewish calendar. The Jewish calendar follows lunar months, each with 29 or 30 days, although the year is solar. Some scholars believe that lunar months derive from ancient nomadic calendars and solar years are the invention of agricultural societies.”
The Israelites were ancient nomadic agrarian people and kept the new moon observances. They planted crops in tune with the lunar cycle as well.
There is the sacred calendar commencing with ABIB and it is called ABIB in The Holy Scriptures, not AVIV – as I have proved with KJV verses above.
There is now a civil calendar which has nothing to do with the old sacred calendar which started with the month named ABIB.
You are using Talmudic names i.e. AVIV as is your want, because you are a Judaisng mongrel dog, which I have sh own you to be elsewhere here on BIN with your satanic law keeping.
I then quoted
1 Chron 23:30-31 (KJV) And to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise at even; 31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:
Verse 31 the transliteral version direct from The Hebrew:
“And-to-all-of to offer up of ascent-offerings to Yahweh to the Sabbaths to the NEW MOONS and to the appointed times in number as custom on them continually to faces of Yahweh.”
This was written of in the times of King David and Solomon well before the time of the captivity so these monthly lunar observances were always their custom.
And yet what did YOU SAY?
“And lastly Grouchy — when you see ‘new moon’ contained in verses like 1 Chronicles 23:30-31 (which you posted above), th ese are examples of BAD TRANSLATION.”
Paul Maud Dib bull (bad Grouchy) of the first order and this proves again that you are a liar.
You then spewed this intellectual diahorrea:
“The assumption is made that the Hebrew word ‘chodesh’ means ‘New Moon’ because the ASSUMPTION is made that the original, authentic calendar of the Ancient Israelites was a lunar calendar. This assumption is false.”
NO Dib, there are no assumptions, what it proves is that your are a bare faced liar and a Judaising mongrel dog of the most vile kind with your usual satanic twisting and perverting of The Holy Scriptures.
(This concludes the latest posting by Cabbage Head. What follows is my response.)
“There is now a civil calendar which has nothing to do with the old sacred calendar which started with the month named ABIB.”
This is a fallacy. There is no evidence available to anyone to back this assertion. This is akin to referring to the 30 day months of Scripture as ‘prophetic months’ of a ‘prophetic year’ simply because there is no other explanation available, so one must be invented to suit the purposes of the false argument. Such is precisely what you are allowing yourself to be misled by in this case because YOU, Groucheroo, do not do your homework as diligently as you should.
“You are using Talmudic names i.e. AVIV as is your want, because you are a Judaisng mongrel dog, which I have sh own you to be elsewhere here on BIN with your satanic law keeping.”
I don’t give a rat’s tail which way you want to spell AVIV, Cabbage Head. I have said everything I have to say on that matter. Once again, we see that there are no limits to your obtusiosity.
“This was written of in the times of King David and Solomon well before the time of the captivity so these monthly lunar observances were always their custom.”
That’s right Crabby. The CHODESH was observed. There is no question about that. There was an observance during which neither selling nor buying could take place and during which there would be a communal meal, as per David and King Saul in 1 Samuel 20:5
“And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, tomorrow is the CHODESH, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat…”
I don’t dispute the occurrence of the WORD in the verses of Scripture, Crabby – I dispute the meaning of the word. The Calendar of the Bible can in no way be a lunar calendar. It is simply not possible. Simple math will demonstrate this statement to be true.
“NO Dib, there are no assumptions, what it proves is that your are a bare faced liar and a Judaising mongrel dog of the most vile kind with your usual satanic twisting and perverting of The Holy Scriptures.”
I can’t help it if you can’t count Grouchy. As I said, you really are trying to operate on an advanced level when you should not be. You should begin anew with remedial language and mathematics lessons before you even ATTEMPT to wrangle with the more substantive verses of Scripture.
If you took the time to read the verses of Scripture, and considered what was actually written without warping and picking and choosing according at your whim, then you might have a chance. As it happens, you have neither a clue how to proceed, how to read, how to behave, nor how to count. I am truly sorry for your sad state of existence Grouchy. Your prognosis is actually quite grim. And you have no one to blame but yourself. And stop swearing in your posts. You know BIN will remove comments like this last one from you where you have used foul language. What happens if your comment gets wiped out before I have a chance to see it? Who will there be to explain these matters to you then?
@ Muad Moron Dib
““Then I came to them of the captivity at TEL-A-BIB, that dwelt by the river of Chebar…”
IF you do not think that the city mentioned in this verse in the KJV and Tel-Aviv are the same city, then I would suggest you examine other translations. Beyond that, I will have to smack you in the head with something wet and soggy.”
I would state for the record that the River of Chebar was in Babylon, not in Israel or are you saying that the Jews were held captive in Israel? LOL I think a piece of 4×2 would be better than something wet and soggy and even then it would make no difference to your stiff neck and thick head.
Now to the next load of Dib crap which is really just him running out of argument ‘cos he doesn’t have any arguments. I think they call this the headless chicken syndrome combined with the head up one’s arse syndrome. LOL
“This is a fallacy”
The only fallacy is you, Dib, because you’re full of lies and satanic perversions.
I know there was a sacred calendar in existence LONG before the Babylonian Talmudic Civic Calendar, just as I know that God’s Law was in existence long before Moses came on the scene. Abraham, Issac & Jacob kept God’s Law as did Noah and The Sacred Calendar. Now what are you going to do now, Dib? Have you thought of whistling Dixie?
“The Calendar of the Bible can in no way be a lunar calendar. It is simply not possible. Simple math will demonstrate this statement to be true.”
Well the New Moon observances tell us otherwise Dib or are you trying to tell us that black is white or that the New Moon observances have nothing to do with lunar months? This ‘black is white’ thing is a bit of a habit of yours, too, I might add. Try and get more rest and seek some help.
Cabbage Head,
You are stuck in a circular logic sand trap. You are arguing that the New Moon observances are legitimate because they have been observed by the Jews for a long time. Even you should be ashamed of such an empty argument and such a flimsy tactic. Speaking of tactics:
I read your response to B.S. Furr on your latest article (Should Christians KEEP the Ten Commandments?). You man-handled him. Your latest response was eloquent, intelligent, funny, and appropriately abrasive, in addition to the fact that you addressed all of his points with AUTHORITY. You left him nowhere to turn and you hammered him flat. Your response was lengthy – so it took a while to compose. BUT you used profanity again… so it got erased. You can’t even be sure that the intended recipient got the chance to read it. He almost certainly didn’t. Why would you continue to pepper your postings with profanity when you know the remark will be eliminated?
@ Maud Moron Mayhem
Rubbish and nonsense. I never use logic, circular or otherwise, logic is your domain, not mine hence your continual erroneous comments.
As an example just look at what you have written:
“You are arguing that the New Moon observances are legitimate because they have been observed by the Jews for a long time.”
Of course they are legitimate if they have been observed by the Israelites with God’s blessing. The length of time is an irrelevance. Here, let me copy that Scripture again for you, because you, with real circular logic and unreliable reasoning, seem to be struggling with it:
1 Chron 23:30-31 (KJV) And to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise at even; 31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:
ALL THESE OBSERVANCES INCLUDING LUNAR NEW MOON OBSERVANCES WERE DONE CONTINUALLY BEFORE THE LORD i.e. IN HIS PRESENCE.
You should also stop relying on the word ‘Jews’ for your arguments. The word ‘Jews’ did not appear in the Holy Scriptures until 2 Kings 16:6. Israel or Israelites are the words you should use, not Jews.
Re Furr and those of his ilk, I will speak my mind, please or offend, and if people behave in such a way as to deserve certain indentifying labels attached to them then I will give them those labels and I also fail to see where profanity comes into it.
Having said that, I was pleased to receive your positive and relevant comments. Most unusual.
Grouchy –
If your use of profanity did not get your comments ERASED, I would have nothing to say on the matter. There actually are readers who attempt to follow this and other exchanges of ours, and when you cause BIN to remove certain of your postings, the logical flow of the communication can be greatly disturbed. Also, that last comment of yours should have remained on screen because it was WORTHY to be read by others. Aside from that, I don’t care how you choose to communicate, except when I belittle you for your usage of embarrassing and childish modern mannerisms such as ‘LOL.’ I myself CHRONICALLY color my communication with salty language.
Now then — from now on when I say JEWS I will mean those living in the land at present. I shall differentiate between them and the Judahites who lived under the authority of the late period 2nd Temple priests (under the authority of the Pharisees). The historical record shows that this late period pharisaical authority observed a lunar calendar. Prior to this period, however, no such calendar was observed.
The verses from Scripture you keep quoting all use the Hebrew term CHODESH (singular) or CHODESHIM (plural) to delineate both the period in question (the ‘month’, as it were) as well as the period’s beginning and its commanded observance. The CHODESH is not the New Moon. It can’t be. Observe:
There are no examples in Scripture of a CHODESH with fewer than 30 days. Furthermore, there are no examples in Scripture of anything which would tells us that the CHODESHIM are determined by any phase of the Moon; rather the opposite is true. Scripture is replete with examples of 30 day CHODESHIM and replete with examples of 12 CHODESH years. There is nothing in Scripture of any 13th month. Ever. There is no mention of intercalation. Ever.
Scripture states emphatically that ALL CHODESHIM have 30 days each, and that ALL YEARS have only 12 CHODESHIM. The examples of this are legion. And again — there are NO examples of a Moon phase determining the beginning of the CHODESH and there are NO examples of any 13th CHODESH.
The ORIGINAL CALENDAR was never a lunar calendar. There is no chance that the original calendar was a lunar calendar because the verses of Scripture DO NOT ALLOW for the possibility that the original calendar was a lunar calendar. This means that the original calendar was something else. DO THE MATH CRABBY. There is no chance that the rabbis are right.
@ the moron Maud Dib
“The ORIGINAL CALENDAR was never a lunar calendar.”
Liar
1 Chron 23:30-31 (KJV) And to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise at even; 31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:
ALL THESE OBSERVANCES INCLUDING LUNAR NEW MOON OBSERVANCES WERE DONE CONTINUALLY BEFORE THE LORD i.e. IN HIS PRESENCE.
“Now then — from now on when I say JEWS I will mean those living in the land at present.”
Yes, those broken off the bush and who can no longer be relied upon for knowledge of The Sacred Calendar or The Truth, they having suplanted it with their Civic Calendar which starts in the autumn.
Art thou kidding me, Hooplehead?
You admit that there HAS been a change in calendar, but you refuse to consider that there has been a change in MODEL of calendar.
You are incorrigible. I would have better luck arguing with a 4 year old armed with a .45.
No I am not kidding you, I am telling you The Truth. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob observed the Sacred Calendar just as they kept God’s Law before it was written down.
This is The Truth, but your carnal logic cannot deal with it. Your mind is not equiped to handle The Truth only factual evidence. And even when I provide it you cannot see it i.e.
1 Chron 23:30-31 (KJV) And to stand every morning to thank and praise the Lord, and likewise at even; 31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the Lord in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the Lord:
“Abraham, Isaac and Jacob observed the Sacred Calendar just as they kept God’s Law before it was written down.”
This is the truth. You are mistaken about WHAT that calendar was/is. That calendar was a heptadic/solar 364-day Calendar.
Why don’t you check out the documents uncovered at the Dead Sea find. Why don’t you do the damn math Grouchy and see if it is even POSSIBLE that the rabbi’s calendar is the real deal.
Do the math Grouchy. Stop being such a lazy old man. Crunch some numbers. All of the information you need to come to the CORRECT answer on this matter is given to you in the Books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Ezra, Nehemiah, Psalms, Daniel and Revelation.
AND GROUCHY — you know how there is an apparent discrepancy between the recorded times and dates in the Synoptic Gospels pertaining to Messiah’s observance of the Passover?…
…That’s because Messiah and the Pharisees were NOT observing the same calendar.
Do your homework Hooplehead.
@ Mayhem Moron, Maud Moron, Dib Moron – a trinity of morons.
From “God’s Sacred Calendar.”
“However, according to God’s calendar, months are determined by the moon-called lunar months. There are 29 days, 12 hours and 44 minutes in one lunar month. That is how long it takes for the moon to orbit the earth. Twelve of these lunar months add up to 354.36 days, 10.89 days short of one solar year (365 days, 6 hours). Following the lunar cycle only would move the calendar forward more than 32 days every three years. April 1 would be where February 28 was three years earlier.
If the year had 13 months, there would be 383.86 days in a year, or 18.64 days more than a solar year. In this case, in just two years, the calendar would move back more than 37 days. The 1st of April would occur where June 6 was two years earlier.”
http://www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/calendar.htm
WHOSE REPORT are you going to believe, Crabby?
The rabbis and the author of this quote of yours?…
…or YHWH HIMSELF who tells us that all months have 30 days each.
Scripture is clear.
YHWH has spoken.
Do as you will.
Your propensity for ignoring the Word of the Almighty is unchanged.
@ Moron; Moron; Moron LOL
This issue has always been a side issue for me because I no longer observe these things like I used to. It’s more of a Pharisaical gnat straining exercise which of course is your speciality, so with the precise nature of the report I posted I would have thought that the exactness of 29 days, 12 hours and 44 minutes would be just up your street. LOL
“Scripture is clear.” You have not been quoting from Scripture, I have.
“YHWH has spoken.” If The Father has spoken via you, then I might as well become a monk. LOL
On yer bike sunshine. LOL
“You have not been quoting from Scripture, I have.”
ARE YOU INSANE GROUCHY!!???
Open up the Book of Revelation and read along with me…
…Wait — do you know how to read?
A TIME, TIMES, AND HALF A TIME =
42 MONTHS =
1260 DAYS.
Let me see you try to explain that. Then let me see you quote a SINGLE verse from canon Scripture which says ANYTHING other than that months have 30 days.
Good luck Hoople.
ALSO Grouchy…
…I did not mean to imply that YHWH has spoken THROUGH me. I only meant to say that He has been most clear about this matter in the Scriptures.
And He has.
@ Maud Moron, Mayhem Moron, Dib Moron, Beef Moron and nothing supreme about any of ‘em. LOL
Carry on with the dissembling Dib. You’re so transparent it’s like looking through glass. A complete joke. LOL
That is EXCEPTIONALLY well-played Grouchy.
In other words — you have no answers for ANY of the points I raise. Nothing. Nada.
You can duck this all you like. The one thing you can’t do is change it.
A TIME, TIMES, AND HALF A TIME =
42 MONTHS =
1260 DAYS.
Genesis and Daniel and Revelation all agree. Who’s quoting Scripture again?
@ Mayhem Moron, Maud Moron, Dib Moron – a trinity of morons.
I’ll quote it again because your thick moronic stupid numpty head has a problem with basic English and numeracy.
The solar year is mentioned here – 365 days 6 hours.
What more do you want?
From “God’s Sacred Calendar.”
“However, according to God’s calendar, months are determined by the moon-called lunar months. There are 29 days, 12 hours and 44 minutes in one lunar month. That is how long it takes for the moon to orbit the earth. Twelve of these lunar months add up to 354.36 days, 10.89 days short of one solar year (365 days, 6 hours). Following the lunar cycle only would move the calendar forward more than 32 days every three years. April 1 would be where February 28 was three years earlier.
If the year had 13 months, there would be 383.86 days in a year, or 18.64 days more than a solar year. In this case, in just two years, the calendar would move back more than 37 days. The 1st of April would occur where June 6 was two years earlier.”
It’s settled then. I’ll model the Calendar I follow on the Instructions of Scripture.
You’ll model your (whatever) on the explanations and errors of man.
Either Scripture is right, Grouchy, or you are. Both cannot be in this case.
Let YHWH Elohim be TRUE and all men a liar.
Amen.
@ Mayhem Moron, Maud Moron, Beef Moron – a trinity of dissemblers
“Then Grouchy quotes from the KING JAMES because he thinks it is convenient to his purposes to do so.”
Like I said, I am the one who has quoted The Holy Scriptures from the start, which you begrudgingly admitted above, whilst you have quoted Talmudic BS from the start. Chodesh bollocks this and chodesh bollocks that.
This means things are only settled in your dissembling deranged mind.
Pretending to be stupid is a great way to win an argument Cabbage Head.
I can’t argue with a dunce.
Nor can I argue with a baby.
Go get drunk or do whatever the hell it is you do when you’re not pretending to have a clue about anything.
I am embarrassed to have made your acquaintance. You are without dounbt the biggest fool I have ever wasted time communicating with.
@ Mayhem Moron, Maud Moron, Beef Moron – a trinity of dissemblers
“Pretending to be stupid is a great way to win an argument Cabbage Head.”
You never had any arguments in the first place so your remark here is meaningless.
“I can’t argue with a dunce.”
You can’t argue with The Truth is what you really mean.
“Nor can I argue with a baby.”
All the immaturity and infantilism is yours. You’re like a stubborn spoilt child who refuses to learn.
“Go get drunk or do whatever the hell it is you do when you’re not pretending to have a clue about anything.”
This comment has the tantrum element to it along with the desperation of a man without anything useful to say.
“I am embarrassed to have made your acquaintance. You are without dounbt the biggest fool I have ever wasted time communicating with.”
Let’s hope then that your embarrassment has the right effect and you go away and stop wasting my time with all your useless intellectual blather.
Add your own comment to the greatest creation in human history: THE JESUS TROLL!
No, I’ll add my comment to the greatest ignorant idiot and troll on BIN other than Maud Moron Mayhem.
Like Jesus, Apostle John never existed.
From a History of The Apostles
“A book written by C. Bernard Ruffin entitled ‘The Twelve’ lists sources of early records of the apostles. He listed the following sources. He said other writers from the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries give us more information that the apostles did exist. One of these was written by Papias (A.D. 60-135). He was the bishop of Hierapolis, in what is now Turkey. He was a disciple of John.”
“Another source about Eusebius and the Early Church quoted the writings of Clement in the document ‘Outlines Box VI.’ He writes about Peter, James, and John. He states that James the Righteous was chosen as Bishop of Jerusalem. Few other writers refer to this, but church history still includes them.”
The Rejection of John’s Teaching, in the latter part of the 1st century:
“The Modern Christian finds it almost impossible to believe that Christians of the latter half of the 1st century would renounce the apostle John’s position of authority within the Christian community, but they did! The evidence of this is found in John’s own writings as well as historical documents written by Christians who lived within a hundred or so years after John’s death.”
If only you didn’t exist. LOL
Saint John is alive
153 is the secret number that can lead you to find him…
I must be a big fool for thi king that GOD can make that possible according to yes2. But if so believing that GOD can make anything possible is being a fool, then I must be one for JESUS. I don’t want to read more articles from yes2 because of the way he treats others which is far from the truth but then again we are all human and thank GOD’s grace we have room for mistakes. I would just like to add that just like those disciples from john 21:21-24 it is just awesome to contemplate the possibility of keeping John alive until the return of our LORD CHRIST and to even dwell on the thought that he could be 1 of the 2 witnesses. I mean anything is possible for the Glory and Honor of GOD, where will hide John… Well why not with HIM I mean scripture does reveal that GOD did take Enoch with HIM and does not mention him dying. Praise The LORD almighty in whose name is all possible even so that we have received redemption through JESUS CHRIST that was risen from death by the Power of the HOLY SPIRIT. To some my thoughts can be foolish and I could be considered believing fairy tales but then again JESUS is The TRUTH and no fictional character.