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Lost Tomb Of Jesus Found

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What is the scientific likelihood that the tomb of Jesus and his family is in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Talpiot? Is it possible that the original nails used in the crucifixion have been discovered in another cave, in the capital’s Abu Tor neighborhood?  The question may be decided in a court in Israel.  

Journalist and filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici is suing anthropologist Joe Zias, who in recent years has been doing his utmost to disprove his provocative theories on early Christianity.

Simcha Jacobovici

Jacobovici, known for his TV series “The Naked Archaeologist,” became famous in recent years for three films he made about the earliest days of Christianity.  

Joseph E. Zias, most commonly cited as Joe Zias, was the Curator of Archaeology and Anthropology for the Israel Antiquities Authority from 1972 until his retirement in 1997, with responsibility for items such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, pre-historic human skeletal remains, and artifacts from archaeological sites such as Jericho, Megiddo, and Gezer.  He has appeared often in film and television documentaries regarding such artifacts and the subject of the Historical Jesus, including The Shroud of Turin for CBS, Who Killed Jesus on BBC in 1997 and Son of God on BBC in 2001, and is a frequent lecturer.

Jacobovici completed a film a year ago, in which he revealed that ossuaries found in a cave near the first one in Talpiot bore unusual engravings, which according to him are the first symbols of Christianity.

In all, he believes that those buried in the tomb were Jesus’ first followers, which strengthens his theory that the burial cave of Jesus was nearby.

Israeli Petah Tikva District Court Judge Jacob Shienman  is presiding over a libel suit brought by journalist and filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici, who is suing anthropologist Joe Zias, formerly of the Israel Antiquities Authority, who in recent years has been doing his utmost to disprove Jacobovici’s theories.

 

Regarding the Discovery Channel program The Lost Tomb of Jesus, produced by director James Cameron and created by Simcha Jacobovici, which proposed that the Talpiot Tomb site was the actual tomb of Jesus and his family, Zias has said, “Projects like these make a mockery of the archeological profession.”  Zias also claims that Jacobovici’s good name could not have been harmed, because he does not have a good name, at least not in the scientific community.

 Jacobovici  says “I am not surprised by the quick and personal attacks by various scholars i.e., accusing us of “hijacking” archaeology, “sensationalism” etc. We’ve heard it all before and I guess some people can’t get off that track, including the accusation that we released our book to coincide with Easter–never mind that it was released in February and Easter is in April. Frankly, what surprises me is how quickly the negative tone was diffused and how the discussion is veering towards scholarly debate instead of ad hominem slander. The reason I’m surprised is because, generally, there is an iron rule that applies to Jesus related archaeology: everyone is wrong, about everything, all the time. Some would like to portray the controversy over the “Jesus Family Tomb” in Talpiot as one between serious scholars and sensationalists such as myself. But let’s put this into a historical context.

He further says, “Prof. Tabor and I are not the first people to connect Jesus to Talpiot. In 1945, Eleazer Sukenik, who was the first to identify the Dead Sea Scrolls as being authentically from the Second Temple Period, discovered a tomb off Hebron Road in Talpiot, approximately 1,000 meters from the now famous “Jesus Family Tomb.” In the tomb, there were two ossuaries with the word “Jesus” inscribed on them in charcoal. According to Sukenik, one inscription read “Jesus Woe” and the other “Jesus Aloth,” which Sukenik interpreted as lamentations for the crucifixion of Jesus. Immediately, the scholarly and Christian community was up in arms. It turns out that Sukenik was wrong on both counts. The ossuaries were not referring to Jesus of Nazareth. Rather, there were two guys named Jesus buried right next to each other. And the first ossuary did not say “Woe,” it said “Ju” which was an unfinished version of “Judah.” Moreover, “Aloth” did not refer to lamentation but to “Aloe.” Maybe the person interred in the box was in the Aloe distribution business. As for why a scholar of Sukenik’s stature got it so wrong, just recently I heard a top scholar say in a room full of other scholars “Sukenik’s wife needed a refrigerator.” So I guess he just sensationalized for the purpose of making money.”  More here

About ten years ago, the Biblical Archaeology Society announced the oldest known object relating to the life of Jesus Christ. A 2,000 year old ossuary, or “bone box,” turned up in an antiquities shop on the Via Dolorosa in Jerusalem. This “James Ossuary” carried these words, in ancient Aramaic, on its side: James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus. The find led to a criminal investigation, charges of forgery, and a sensational trial in Israel.  A court ruled there was no forgery and the James Ossuary was genuine. 

The James ossuary was on display at the Royal Ontario Museum from November 15, 2002 to January 5, 2003.

Credit: Wikipedia

The existence of the ossuary was announced at an October 21, 2002 Washington press conference co-hosted by the Discovery Channel and the Biblical Archaeology Society. The initial translation of the inscription was done by André Lemaire, a Semitic epigrapher, whose article claiming that the ossuary and its inscription were authentic was published in the November/December 2002 Biblical Archaeology Review. Authenticity of the inscription has been challenged. The Israeli Antiquities Authority determined in 2003 that the inscriptions were forged at a much later date.

The owner of the ossuary is Oded Golan, an Israeli engineer and antiquities collector. In December 2004, Golan was charged with 44 counts of forgery, fraud and deception, including forgery of the Ossuary inscription. On October 3, 2010 court proceedings for the trial of Golan and a co-defendant concluded. Numerous expert witnesses were subpoenaed to testify and the outcome of this trial is considered important by many Biblical scholars, including James Tabor, of UNC-Charlotte, who discusses the case in his book “The Jesus Dynasty.”

On March 14, 2012, Golan was acquitted of the forgery charges but convicted of illegal trading in antiquities. The judge said this acquittal “does not mean that the inscription on the ossuary is authentic or that it was written 2,000 years ago.

Four guests in this DiscloseTruth TV episode reacted to the claim that Jesus’ tomb may have been found. During the first 90 minutes, ancient language scholar Mike Heiser and theological researcher Darrell Bock shared their thoughts. The finding of ossuary boxes from a 1st century tomb is actually “old news,” dating back to a 1980 discovery, Heiser pointed out. Bock concurred, calling it old evidence being given a fresh spin. The theory that the boxes once contained the bones of Jesus, Mary and Joseph is “a lot of hype,” he said, and though their names were inscribed on the boxes, those names were very common in the population of that era. If it was truly Jesus’ family tomb wouldn’t it be found in Galilee, he asked. Heiser noted that even the archeologist who made the original discovery was skeptical of the current claims.

In the second 90 minutes, Glenn Kimball, an expert on ancient manuscripts, and investigative mythologist William Henry appeared. Such tomb claims are prolific, Kimball declared, citing Japan, Kashmir, Africa, and Western Europe as other places where Jesus has been said to be buried. Henry mentioned FDR’s interest in finding Christ’s casket in China. He commended James Cameron and his crew for putting together an interesting investigation, but he believes the real issue worth exploring is the resurrection, the bodily transformation/ascension that is within us all. Kimball noted the story of resurrection dates back much earlier than Jesus, and was, for example, described in the ancient Sumerian records.

Mike Heiser received his Ph.D. in Hebrew Bible and ancient Semitic Languages from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He is currently Academic Editor for Logos Bible Software, a company that creates ancient language research software and digital resources for studying the ancient and biblical world. Mike is a member of the Society of Biblical Literature, the Institute for Biblical Research, the International Organization for Septuagint and Cognate Studies, the American Academy of Religion, and the Evangelical Theological Society. In 2005, Mike was named by Fate Magazine as one of the 100 Most Influential People in Ufology.

Glenn Kimball has a B.A. in Journalism and an M.A. in Communications. In addition he has successfully completed all course work for a Ph.D. in Communications and passed his doctoral exams, lacking his dissertation. He was the former president of International Exchange School and vice president of two cellular phone companies. Glenn has taught school at Southern Illinois University and was ranked by student evaluations in the top ten instructors at the university. He has been collecting ancient texts since the age of fifteen and is famous for being able to integrate very diverse texts into a contiguous story line.

Due to the censorship of time and doubt, most of the documents and oral stories chronicling the early life of Jesus were destroyed, lost, or forgotten. After 25 years of research, during which Kimball visited museums, Indian tribes, medicine men, and universities, he assembled some of the missing links and unsolved mysteries of Christianity.

William Henry is an investigative mythologist and author of ten books on ancient mythology and neo-archaeology with a Stargate twist. By applying the latest theories in science and consciousness to ancient myths of the gates of the illumined gods, including Sumerian, Egyptian and Holy Grail gateway myths, he hopes to uncover the secrets of the guarded, by such groups as the Illuminati. His latest book, Oracle of the Illuminati, states that we are on the verge of rediscovering the sacred science of creating peace on Earth.

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    Total 47 comments
    • Anonymous

      keep dreaming people………..he would never let you find that. that is only for the few that are considered sacred. not anyone on these sites. believe me when i say to you that the place of death is not for human eyes to see.

      • Realist

        Jesus never existed in the first place, you dithering fool. He was based on several other pagan gods and deities; there’s nothing original about Christianity. And if Jesus did existed, he was nothign more than insane, delusional, psychopathic cult leader and a fraud.

        • Anonymous

          Well, now, Iesous, upon which the fabricated Name of Jesus is based, did exist. Kristos, upon which Christ, the name, is based, did exist. Both as humans who were deified.
          On the other hand, the biblical personnage named Jesus was actually named Yahshua whch is a whole nother matter.
          Don’t let Satan deceive you. The easiest and quickest trip is direct.
          Yahshua was/is the Messiah.
          Yahweh was/is the Creator.
          The Law is the Holy Spirit/Understanding.
          Whcih law can you not keep?
          You want your brothers wife? You want your neighbors cow? You must have a return on your capital?
          Hmmmmmm!

        • Chris W.

          You’re not looking at this correctly. To claim that Christianity is not “original” is a starting point, not an endgame.

          I would tend to agree that many elements of Christianity existed prior to Christianity itself. But do you realize that, by saying that, it is an admission that those elements are most likely true? That they are part of the longest traditions of religious beliefs on earth, and likely based in fact?

          So the Christians gave everything new names and placed the events in what was for them a contemporary context. So what? Same thing happened when Rome inherited beliefs from the Greeks, who inherited from the Egyptians, who inherited/shared with the Babylonians, Assyrians, Sumarians, etc etc all over the world.

          Christianity carries forward beliefs that go back to the beginnings of mankind.

        • Anonymous

          AHHAH, well we all know where those type of comments have come from, don’t we!

          Your a very sad person, who needs to get a LIFE! As it seems you and your friend do not have one at the moment.

          :cool:

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Chris W. wrote:

          “But do you realize that, by saying that, it is an admission that those elements are most likely true?”

          While certain of the elements you make mention of are almost certainly true, is there not a strict prohibition in the Scriptures against this very mingling of seed? And what happens when the profane touches the holy? Is the profane made holy, or is the holy made profane? The wheat must always be separated from the chaff – and the chaff dispensed with. This is the recurring theme of the Scriptures.

          “Christianity carries forward beliefs that go back to the beginnings of mankind.”

          And what else does Christianity carry with it? When this examination is undertaken in a very thorough manner the examiner will find very little reason left to continue calling himself a Christian. What is ‘Christ’? If ‘Christ’ itself is a problematic pagan term, then so is ‘Christianity’. Did Messiah intend to found a new religion? Is such a message contained anywhere within the New Testament Scriptures? Who are the men responsible for giving us terms like ‘Christ’ and names like ‘Jesus’? What were their motives? These questions can in fact be answered.

          Acts 4:12

          Neither is there Salvation in any other: For there is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

          And yet are we to simply permit the substitution of His Name for another and pretend that it makes no difference? I have heard it said: “Our Father knows who we mean.” But we have strict instructions in hand never to permit such substitutions or additions to the Scriptures. Yehoshua is not the same name as Jesus. Jesus is not a translation of Yehoshua – Jesus is another name entirely. Why do any of us permit this substitution to remain in the face of such strict orders not to? And what is a ‘Christ’? And what is a ‘Church’? ‘Christ’ is not a translation of the term Messiah – it is another word entirely. ‘Church’ is not a translation of Ecclesia – it is another term entirely.

          Apart from the Bible, no book stresses the importance of words and of their meanings so emphatically. Words have very important meanings and the enemy has substituted his own words for the Words chosen by our Father. Why should these substitutions be permitted by us to remain? And once the substitutions have been restored to their original words and meanings – little reason remains to continue ascribing the term ‘Christian’ to any follower of the Way of Messiah.

          Keep what is pure. Reject everything else. We are responsible for the cleanliness of the Temple (the Temple is the Body of Messiah). The mingled seed must be sifted and purified. The profane must be put away from the holy. The Temple must be cleansed. The Instruction of the Almighty is very clear. This work must be finished by us before His return.

        • Anonymous

          Realist
          What a complete Moron you are……….either you believe that Christ existed or you don’t
          Don’t come up with this stupidity of “IF”.
          Of course you seem to know it all ,have a safe trip to Hell buddy.

        • Pateriot

          I don’t agree at all with. Jesus Christ almost certainly did exist as did his disciples who established and developed the Christian religion… and ultimately gave their lives (with the exception of the apostle John) in defense of their faith, as did tens of thousands of early converts in the first century and early second century. Many died within living memory of Jesus. Now, one might reasonably question the nature of Christ but he certainly was a early first century religious leader who taught very revolutionary theology for his place in time, although Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) did teach a very similar philosophy in the Indian subcontinent (minus the Jewish context) five hundred years before Christ.

      • Louis

        Everyone wants to strip Christ of His Divinity because they don’t want to answer to Him for their sins. So they invent stories about His tomb being found, etc.

        But self-delusion won’t work. Each human being will stand before Christ the Lord in judgment. No one — including myself — will be exempted from accounting for their past actions.

        • Idiot Proof

          Self delusion is believing that a “Creator” bestowed you/me/us with a physical form with needs, desires, and urges, but holds us in the wrong for acting upon these innate urges that compel us to seek and sometimes find satisfaction…

          Self delusion is believing the Jesus myth and the specific technical path to eternal life with God, and not having a satisfactory explanation for what happens to those on remote parts of the globe that haven’t been exposed to God’s Word, if they don’t know who Jesus was, how can they be born again and recieve the blessings of Jesus and how He supposedly died for all of our sins, “but not for those who do not know Me.”

          Self delusion is believing that the Bible is the Devine Word of an Infallible “God” , despite the hundreds of glaring inconsistencies and contradictions found within its covers…

          Did you ever stop to think why a common term for a “congregation” is a word like flock, and why Jesus and clergy members are referred to as a “Shepherd”? The concept here is flock, sheep, followers. Members of those groups are famous for not thinking for themselves, but rather for thinking as a herd, or a group of subordinates…THINK ABOUT IT…

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Keep posting Idiot P.

          This way there will be no paucity of words from which to judge you in the day when you are called to stand and render an accounting of your deeds. That you do not believe such a day will ever come is utterly meaningless in the face of that which IS.

          And learn how to spell ‘Divine’ O erudite one.

        • Idiot Proof

          Thats how clueles you are Muad Dib, if God knows the hearts and minds of men, I am not worried about my judgement before Him, in the least. My heart is pure and my intentions are good, and JUST like your TYPICAL Christian HYPOCRITE you have the gall to judge me, when even your own Bible which you do accept as the Word of God, tells you specifically not to be the judge of others. I am not going to go to either Heaven or Hell based on your perceptions of my deeds in life, you are completely unqualified to be my judge, so please desist.

        • Idiot Proof

          Whats really funny to me, is that, you have NO way of knowing what happens to us after we die of this life, yiou simply chose to believe one of the possibilities presented to you so far in your life, and you have absolutely no credible evidence for accepting the story you chose to believe over any other possible explanation.
          You most likely chose to believe that particular story out of the fear you have of what will happen to you if that story is true, other that that, you have no reason to believe that entire myth except that it was repeated to you over and over until it stuck…
          PROVE JESUS EXISTED with real factual evidence, otherwise keep your beliefs and personal judgements of other men to yourself.

        • Idiot Proof

          The FUNNIEST thing about the God.Jesus myth is that weak minded fools like you fail to see that God/Jesus is the SAME story as Santa Claus but for adults, kids if they were bad kids will not get nice presents at the end of the year, while adults won’t get the gift of eternal life if they were bad people, wake up, you have been played as a gullible grown-up child, and a myth was used to keep your dumb ass in line….

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “…you have the gall to judge me”

          None such. I am not the Judge. I said only that you would BE judged. Try reading the words which are actually written, rather than inserting your own preferred meaning at every turn. Your doing so is one reason for why you have arrived at your present unfortunate predicament of proximity to outer darkness.

          “I am not going to go to either Heaven or Hell based on your perceptions of my deeds in life”

          Truth. But your words are pointless. Who told you I was your judge?

          “Whats really funny to me, is that, you have NO way of knowing what happens to us after we die of this life”

          False. I know how to read. I know how to discern. I know these things because I have been taught by Another.

          “…you have absolutely no credible evidence for accepting the story you chose to believe over any other possible explanation.”

          False. I weigh the options. I began the search. I have knocked.

          “…otherwise keep your beliefs and personal judgements of other men to yourself.”

          I judge only your spelling. All else is judged by Another. Your spelling is terrible.

          What’s the matter Idiot P? Have we struck a nerve with you so easily? I have all the time I need to deal with you in a public forum. Your attitude and your accusations have just brought you a challenge. You insult and you demean. Now you have met resistance. What will you do? I have both the time and the inclination to address you directly and to answer any of your charges. You now have a choice to make. You have opened your mouth to draw out your tongue against the Most High. You have just been called on it by a servant of His. How would you like to proceed?

        • Idiot Proof

          I judge only your spelling. All else is judged by Another. Your spelling is terrible.

          What was that? You admit that you judge typos? You judge the mistakes of others? Thanks for admitting that you are an imbecile, and a judgemental one at that…

          Too bad you cannot see your own lunacy…

      • predictability

        To. Anonymous.keep dreaming people he would never let you find that. that is only for the few that are considered sacred. not anyone on these sites. believe me when i say to you that the place of death is not for human eyes to see. . made me think .positively. .astonishingly. witnessing how names like .jesus. .god. .traditions. of all 23 .bibles. state there is only .1. .god. one .truth. that .didnt. .mean. .the. .devil. .satan lucifer. was gona be nice in the most .believeable. .way. .anybody. can prove .something. but we dont see is how we see eachother .positively? or .negatively=oppressive =Anonymous?. peace predictability

    • fulltimegeek

      Locations of biblical artifacts (i.e. Ark of the Covenant) and geographical locations (i.e. Sodom & Gomorrah, Mount Sinai, Jesus’ crucifiction site, Red Sea Crossing, Noah’s Boat) have all been found by Ron Wyatt since 1980′s.

      The powers to be have done an excellent job in suppressing this information though. I recommend youtubing Ron Wyatt if you are unaware these discoveries.

      • Idiot Proof

        None of those alleged geographical locations prove the existence or former existence of any particular individual, God, or Jesus. And a few of those alleged locations are widely dusputed among theologians. They are claims, not factually proven to be what they are claimed to be. The Israelites are said to have crossed the Reed Sea, NOT the Red Sea, there are many many disputed translations in the Bible, from the original Scripture.

    • Anonymous

      in israel you say? that is the last place he would want his remains to be discovered in. after what they did to my ………………… anyway, never. false hood. another scam by israel for headlines. NEVER

    • Pix

      LOL Laughably ridiculous to claim you’ve found the tomb of someone who is based on plagiarised ancient pagan allegory.

      Perhaps I should announce I’ve found the cave of Puff the magic dragon. :lol:

      • Realist

        Heh, yeah. Personally i think Puff would make a better Savior than Jesus. At least he is less depressing fictional character than a ancient, psychotic, delusional loser :lol:

        • Pix

          What you mean you believe women are inferior to men? They are allowed to attend but at the back and in silence? A self appointed apostle, a self confessed liar and murderer that where ever he went they wanted to stone him to death?

          Ok mate, what ever.

          :sad: :evil:

        • Pix

          Sorry scrap my last comment, I read Puff as Paul.. Oops my bad. :lol:

    • smart enough to know i don\\\'t know it all

      I guess “Realist” has a monopoly on the truth when it comes to unwritten ancient history. Awesome! I’ve always admired arogant blowhards who enjoy proclaiming their imaginebd superiority over those who have different beliefs or opinions. Especially when it’s something no one can prove. Yet this guy or gal really enjoys putting these people down and feeling superior. What a great example you are to the young people in this messed up world. Wouldn’t life be better it everyone was a pompous add and was as disrespectful narrow minded as this twit?

    • Eternity

      Jesus did exist, and he was murdered on a cross for everyone’s sins, shed his blood to cover those sins. But he defeated death and has the keys of death and hell in his hand. All you have to do is believe

    • drhoecker

      while the worls ponders the evidence found my own evidence goes un noticed,
      i have things no man could set on the earth
      pictures of everything seen by the biblical men of old
      ex…john looked and saw what appeared to be faces
      a lion,a oxen a man and an eagle,is one i hold in picture form
      the truth of religion and the real children of God are known
      even the rocks speak out in truth the name you all seek for
      but jesus was a story from way back long before his cross day
      enlil is the one story who has directly tied the name into lore
      he invented the HOE, temple was EKUR ,this is my very name HOE’EKUR
      the leaders all know me ahead,they reject my future visions that all came true
      that is the seer dana hoecker they keep under wraps
      keep digging up graves,commit the act of death robbing graves
      there is NOT the answer in death but LIFE

    • niftyfifty

      you are right Anonymous……he was actually buried in the earth. lowered down into his tomb(in the earth) and then sealed with a huge boulder that was rolled on top of the hole. It did not happen like the movies.

    • Anonymous

      Come on a goyim will never succeed in suing a Jew especially in Israel.
      And a Jew according to the Talmud shall not sue his brother.
      Freemasons ship of Satan at its best. Good Luck………………..

    • begone

      Why do you humans do this, why are you filled with so much hate, why are you always fighting with one another. what is wrong with you all. are you actually listening to yourselves. for what purpose do you fight instead of just brushing off what others have to say. yes everybody is entitled to an opinion but your not entitled to listen. if people don’t want to see they will not and if they do not want to hear they will not so why cast your perils before swine. what does another humans opinion matter to your walk with the lord. if you fight back you have let evil in. instead give them your other cheek and let them rage all they like for it will get them nothing but at least you will be in peace as it is only ones walk that matters to ones walk. don’t fuel the fire but instead extinguish it with love. eternal loving praise to the lord god of all creation.

      • Anonymous

        begone

        Do as you preach …….be silent…….don’t comment………..don’t listen ……just simply go away.

    • Idiot Proof

      There’s a documentary called The Empty Cross: Why Jesus Didn’t Exist, you believers and Bible thumpers should watch it with an open mind. The truth shall set you free. Free from the enslavement of your belief in lies and myths. It is available for you to watch in several parts on youtube and it is extremely revealing and informative.
      The Judeo-Christian co-religions were based on the ancient Egyptian pagan beliefs, those spiritual beliefs were based on personal accountablilty, thus: I will not kill, I will not lie, I will not steal…
      Judaism is based on the three main Egyptian gods, ISis, RA (The Sun God), ELohim, ( a collection of lesser gods). When this new religion, a tool of control used by those who had hidden well protected knowledge, and thus POWER, was developed, the notion of personal accountability, a source of personal power in itself, was deviously replaced by accountability to an unseen unproven entity in another unseen realm. A god that has to power to see what His followers are doing, thinking, desiring…
      The Gnostics, who were the first to write about an idea they called The Christ, made it quite clear in their earlier writings that the notion that Jesus was a real live human being was absurd. There is no verified historical reference to anyone named Jesus before the Council of Nicene in about 170 A.D. Herod never mentioned anything about any Jesus or Christ, Pontius Pilate never mentions Jesus in his records notes or logs, and he was allegedly the Prefect of the city/region where Jesus was allegedly beaten scourged and crucified…It never happened, just like the Gulf of Tonkin Incident…No where in Egypt is there any mention of any Moses, who was allegedly found by Ramses II mother in the Nile, and adopted and raised as Ramses II own brother, because Moses did not exist either…Nor did Abraham, Issac, etcera. It is time to face the facts, that we have been lied to by the power elite for a long long time, about almost everything…
      The Catholic Church was in existence long before the alleged time of Jesus…So any misperceptions some might have about Catholicism being based on Christianity, as I have heard a great many “Christians” claim is absolutely ludicrus. All of you who posted negative replies to Realist are ignorant to the point of being a danger to yourselves. Open your eyes already…

      • anarchialdesire

        great post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Idiot Proof

          Thank you, I was able to make that post adfter years and years of Bible Study, and personal research, years and years of it. :) It sure is nice fior my reason and logic to be appreciated instead of argued with by people who have no clue about their own chosen beliefs. “)

        • BEEF SUPREME

          Any time you care to engage in a public debate here with one of the ‘deluded’ –

          Just say the word. We’ll put your claim of “years and years of Bible Study” to the test very quickly. And we will examine each and every piece of evidence you care to submit on its own merits. Your ‘reason’ and your ‘logic’ are nothing in the face of the facts, Jack. This would be about the evidence, as it exists. No one is interested in any personal opinion you might have to share; nor again the opinions of any mentors or idols you might have. What can you demonstrate with the evidence? We have in hand documents which claim to be something. Can you demonstrate that the documents are something other than what they are proclaimed to be? You talk the talk. Do you walk the walk?

          What do you say — want to put your money where your mouth is?

        • Idiot Proof

          I am sorry Muad Dib, but you have no argument for me, you may NOT use the Bible as evidence of, or to prove God’s or Jesus’ existence, you need to have more than hearsay testimony, you need physical proof, which you do not have, because it does not exist.
          I am going to assume, safely I deduce, that you did not bother to view the documentary I suggested. That does not surprise me in the least, in fact I doubt that you will ever watch anything with credible claims and factual evidence showing anything that might undermine your chosen ideology. I am sure that at this time in your life, you are motivated by the fear of the reppercussions of having to accept and acknowledge that you were somehow fooled, that you believed something that was not true. Well to not accept reality, and to choose to believe something that you KNOW may not be true, is to suffer from cognitive dissonance. I am not going to entertain you and your irresponsible challenges anymore. There is a wealth of factual information that you choose to ignore on the web, go enlighten yourself instead of picking fights over ideologies with people on the internet….

        • BEEF SUPREME

          “…you need to have more than hearsay testimony, you need physical proof”

          As is typical for one such as yourself – you have splashed onto this page and have already put up for down and black for white. Who is the one among us making the charges? That would be you, Idiot P. I defend against your charges. I have made no charges of my own (aside from your atrocious spelling which even you seem willing to admit) and therefore I do not have any to defend. Do you know how to debate? Do you know how to argue persuasively in support of your contentions? Or are you pleased to salt these boards with your claims and would be happy if everyone would simply defer to your boast of scholarship and bow to your claims of knowledge?

          Have you any substance with which to back your proclamations? Or are you just another empty mouthpiece selling himself and spreading moist noise to bother brothers and sisters who were not bothering you. What are you made of, Idiot P.? Show me a piece of the wares you are hawking so that I may inspect it and point out all of the holes in its moth-eaten cloth. Don’t you want to share some of the precious knowledge you have accumulated over these many years and years of your study? How say you?

        • Idiot Proof

          Are you a troll? Because now you really really seem like a troll, you excoriate me for some typos in comments posted at 1:20 something in the morning, you focus on the typos to try to make me wrong about something, you ignore the suggestion to view the documentary called The Empty Cross, which I repeated specifically to you in my preceding comment…

          Seriously, how is conversing with you anything other than a complete waste of my time? I tried to give you something, a different perspective, a look at a larger picture, but you wish to remain indoctrinated. I had the same bullshit forced upon me when I was a kid, and was an Acolyte in my church, but there were too many inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible for me to just ‘have faith’ and accept the programming. I am logical and analytical, I am an effective critical thinker and I cannot accept that 1 + 1 = 3.

          Good day to you, Sir/Madam, I sincerely hope that one day you may be able to open your mind expand your horizons and broaden your perspective.

        • Idiot Proof

          Seriously Muad Dib, I shall not respond to any more of your comments in this thread unless you watch ‘The Empty Cross’ in it’s entirety, and then come back and explain to me specifically how and where the documentary is inaccurate.

        • BEEF SUPREME

          You want me to watch movies? No. I read the same books the guys who make the movie read. I study the same evidence they study. There isn’t any propaganda I haven’t seen. Does it really seem to you like I just got here Idiot P.? A reasonably serious person who makes charges of the kind you have made would have something on the order of an argument with which to support his contentions. Are you here to enlighten? Or are you here to inflame. Do you imagine that you know something? Good. Share what you know. What do you know? Do you intend to point to movies? Was there ever a movie made which can dent Truth? No. Your movie is dust in the face of Truth.

          I will stop bothering you now because I see you have nothing meaningful to say. I make it my mission in life to expose all pretend arguments against the Truth. It’s actually quite easy. I was expecting you would at least have the courage to produce one or two hollow pieces of so-called evidence for me to expose as meaningless gas. Too bad. If you ever muster the moxie to change your mind, I won’t be hard for you to find. I’ll leave you to your empty claims. But before I go I will suggest to you that whatever study you think you ever started has only been abandoned by you. You have finished nothing.

          Good luck to you.

      • Pharisees.org

        The Torah is of the Jews.

        The Bible is a compilation of some writings of Jews that are the true prophet and disciples of God and writings of the Jew Pharisees who are of Satan.

        Torah is one book with same number of writings/same writings in all books.

        The Bible is one cover with varying numbers writings/differing writings in bibles because men choose the writings and not all men agree on what is and what is not a writing of God; except to the extent that Jesus said the gates of Hell will not prevail against his gospel, so at least Matthew and John made it in all bibles. The writings of 1 Peter and 2 Peter are that of Pharisees forged under Peter’s name.

        The Jews have God’s law and so do Gentiles under the doctrine of Christ.

        Pharisee Paul does not teach that Gentiles are under the law. Colossians 2:14 “Jesus Christ nailed the law to the cross.”

        False apostle and anti-Christ Pharisee Paul claims two gospels: a doctrine of UN-circumcision for Gentiles and a doctrine of Circumcision for Jews (Galatians 2:7, Romans 15:8).

        Truth is ONE gospel for ALL. Revelation 14:6 and Matthew 28:19-20, one gospel for all.

        Deuteronomy 4 to the Jews they were to worship God only; to all the nations (the Gentiles) they were permitted by God to worship sun, star, moons, things of the earth. of the sea and that is what Gentiles did. The fact that Gentiles gave feelings and persona to their images just goes to show that mankind wants to make a connection with a higher being.

        Jonah 3:10 “God saw their works that they repented of evil by turning away from evil deeds….”

        Jonah was sent to the people of Nineveh who worship Dagon, a god with a fish head. God had his prophet spat up from the belly of a whale onto the shores of Nineveh. That got their attention being their god has a fish head. Jonah told Nineveh repent or God would destroy, they ceased evil and God let them live and God did not command the people of Nineveh to stop worshiping Dagon.

        Gentiles were permitted to worship that which was forbidden to the Jews, but the Gentiles were not permitted to engage in evil and violence without repercussion. God would destroy nations when they reached a certain level of evil and violence and refused to repent thereof. But as of the time of Jesus evil and good grow together until harvest (Matthew 13:30, 12:20), until God’s judgment unto victory.

        The Roman Catholic Church evolved out of the churches founded by Pharisees for the Gentiles mock Temples for Gentiles, the Synagogues of Satan (Romans 2:28-29, Rev. 2:9). The Council of Trent quotes from whom they call “Saint Paul”. Pharisee Paul is not a saint, but the anti-Christ. The Holy Synod of the RCC is and always has been comprised of Pharisees since its inception.

        The doctrine of Pharisee Paul is not one that declares personal accountability to not do evil deeds as the false apostle and anti-Christ clearly states he does evil; that his body is captive to a so-called “law of sin”; and that he serves sin with this flesh. Rather, Pharisee Paul says all flesh is hopelessly captive to sin and will sin while a man’s spirit or mind delights in the law. It’s an absurd teaching from men of the Devil that one can engage in evil deeds and yet their spirit remains clean. Romans 7:16-7:25.

        The doctrine of Christ is that all believers are to be followers and teachers of God’s law (Matthew 5:17-20).

        Gentiles, it is not your godly duty to attend the churches, to give them money. Jesus just asks Gentiles that are evil to give up evil deeds. If you aren’t doing evil you are okay with God. As to money and time in service to the Lord, see Matthew 25:31-46.

        http://beforeitsnews.com/spirit/2013/01/jews-of-asia-v-false-apostle-paul-2474836.html

      • marcusygc

        Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. – Proverbs 21:2

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDGl79x4Pc&list=PLCED9C361662866BD

        Watch this series, and see what is happening right now. Watch it with a open heart, look at it from a different perspective, and see if it rings true to yourself and what you see. Is that not reason and logic?

        When you look at your life, what do you see? What are your beliefs? Do you feel true happiness? Do you feel certainty? It may be hard to accept another point of view, because you have invested so much time and effort into another, but isn’t the truth what truly matters? Reason and logic can be used for deception. In this world we live in, what we can truly be certain with all our heart is our best guidance for truth.

        Please take this an open heart, not ridicule and dismiss this just as ‘lunacy’ for the sake of winning an argument.

    • Don't be hating!

      Dam another one! I lost count! Israel has a bunch of Jesus tombsSeveral others around the world. I think Jesus was buried in India. But who the heck knows. And really WHO CARES!

    • Hermit

      They can’t have found the tomb of Jesus. Jesus never existed. The character in the New Testament is mythological representing many things, including the Sun, which in biblical times was known as God’s Son. The Egyptian god Horus didn’t exist in reality either. In Egyptian mythology he represented the rising sun. From his name we get Horizon — Horus is risen, as well as by rearranging the letters of his name we get the word ‘Hours’ — a time measurement tool used to determine the position of the Sun in relation to us.

      Virtually all Christian Churches face East, the direction of the rising sun, as do the Alters in ancient stone circles. The halo around Jesus’ head in religious art, isn’t a halo, it’s the sun. He represents the sun. He is also the God for the Age of Pisces, which is why he is represented by a fish. In Matthew, one of Jesus’ lines was, ‘And surely I will be with you always, until the very end of the age.’

      Yes, the end of the Age of Pisces, which, erm, is now. Check out Saint Malachy’s Prophecy of the Popes, look at the end of the list and pay particular attention to what he says about the last Pope. Wikipedia have got a good piece on it, but it’s a well known Catholic document so use any reference source you trust.

    • TruthBeTold

      Of course Jesus’ tomb is found. It has been found since He died. The Catholic Church erected the Church of the Holy Sepulcre over it centuries ago, and there it still stands today. What is all this nonsense that wow, we just found it? I am surprised at Before Its News.com to print this article as though the tomb of Christ was just found after a long absence. This is going along all the same lines as all the false teachings which are coming into play now, such as the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jasher, the alleged lost books of the Bible, which, mind you, were deliberately left out of the Bible, both Catholic and Protestant versions, as were the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Books of the Essenes, Gnosticism, etc. all false teachings and left out of the Bible for a definitive reason. The Bible warns us that in end times, all these false teachings would be coming out and to avoid and reject them……The TOMB OF JESUS CHRIST IS NO MYSTERY. THE CHURCH HAS PRESERVED IT FROM DAY ONE SINCE HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD.

    • MikeWon

      As a Vacation Bible School student in 1957 & as a seven year old, fully aware of the difference of being a Christian celebrating Christmas & being old enough to know Santa Claus was merely a character to entertain childish imaginations, it is too very easy to accept the promises of a Creator able to make such a world allowing each individual the opportunity to accept or reject any or all of the circumstances surrounding our existence.

      While the Holy Bible is written by humans, it’s obvious humans can still fail at life & certainly cannot create anything as simple as a tree. Of course God does exist & of course the Holy Word of God allows us to accept or reject righteousness. It seems awfully silly to reject His word but, without the confidences & doubts of these ‘scientific’ scholars, we might not have the ability to hone our individual ‘crap detectors’. :grin:

    • espejo73

      religion is man made .it may help in the beginning transition into the spiritual plane but eventually come to realize we are all one of the same essence and our journey will be determined by our souls evolution. and hell? theres nothing dangerous about creation. some of us may find it hell facing our karma but were never stuck. we eventually return to the source. love is key

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